Trump is Bad. Trump's supporters are not bad

Рет қаралды 1,642

Күн бұрын

I always draw a line between Trump and his supporters. I always attack Trump because I believe he's a threat to democracy. But I never attack his supporters because I don't believe they're bad people. And I want to understand them. We need to understand them.

Пікірлер: 196

@bbybap4729 3 ай бұрын

I have some coworkers who are Trump supporters who are nice people but the things that they’ve said to me as a black woman I find offensive. It opened my eyes to the type of people they are and I was totally blindsided by it. The things that they talk about today they would never have said to me 20 years ago. They would have known it was offensive. But now they’re emboldened to speak to me this way, and I can’t try to understand it. I’m done. I tried to understand in 2016, but 8 years in, I can’t do it anymore.

@ListenUpDemocracy 3 ай бұрын

They are not nice people if they go out of their way to offend you. Not-see Germany started this way. But I applaud you for giving them grace as you should for the sake of your job.

@JR-pr8jb 3 ай бұрын

One cannot argue with sheer, hateful ignorance.

@bherrin67 3 ай бұрын

I’m so sorry you have to deal with that nonsense from coworkers. As good, educated folks, we MUST stick together and vote against this evil. ☮️❤️🇺🇸

@darlenegriffith6186 3 ай бұрын

I understand. There are times when you must draw the line, and boundaries must be drawn.

@jamesfranklin180 3 ай бұрын

It is important to speak to them about how you feel. Being silent is unproductive. If they get made or don't like you if you're honest then to hell with them. If they aren't hateful then you may help them and if they are not then screw them.

@jamesfranklin180 3 ай бұрын

I will make the same nuanced comment Hillary did. There is a portion of Republicans, maybe as much as 30% who are the KKK, NEO-Nazi, White Christian nationalists that fall under the category of deplorable, but pointing that out doesn't help. The issue is Republican leaders who are unwilling to condemn that wing as McCain did.

@garybowings1538 3 ай бұрын

Are you day drinking again?

@lhoward9593 3 ай бұрын

You are right! (Please ignore the troll)

@cashew515 3 ай бұрын

I say 75%!

@sharonharris9782 3 ай бұрын

@@garybowings1538no,but I know you are. I know you're an alcoholic 😂

@Ericviking2019 3 ай бұрын

The Republican leadership capitulated, just like the German conservatives in 1928.

@teresaamanfu7408 3 ай бұрын

It’s really hard to have a conversation with someone who doesn’t accept facts even when the evidence is glaring them in the face. It seems to me, that the problem for a lot of them is their critical thinking analysis. But there are also a lot of cynical “deplorables” who are just vindictive and selfish and racist. Maybe you’ll have a better way of communicating with them. I wish you a good luck for the sake of all of us.

@cathichristian4142 3 ай бұрын

I agree with your post. I try to talk to MAGAs and I have given up. I have asked them why they support Trump and they will point out the economy. If I give them facts about the economy then and now they refuse to see it. Maybe I can reword my questions? I can ask, besides the economy what else do you like about Trump? The answers I have received are pretty much what you said. They say something that is just "....vindictive and selfish and racist. "

@knottybead4871 3 ай бұрын

How do you explain that trump supporters like him because it lets them be mean and hateful people. They like hating. What kind of person is that?

@garybowings1538 3 ай бұрын

How do explain Joe and Jill Biden shunning and excommunication their five year old granddaughter in Arkansas? That's sick. That's cruel. That's disgusting.

@dvferyance 3 ай бұрын

It's not like the other side is any better.

@knottybead4871 3 ай бұрын

@@dvferyance I don’t understand how you can say that when democrats are wanting everyone to live full and productive lives. If you would stop watching fox tv, and actually pay attention to the real world you might realize you are being lied to.

@stevewilliams4648 3 ай бұрын

@@dvferyance All the Nazi and confederate types support Trump, doesn't get worse than that.

@M.J.212 3 ай бұрын

@@dvferyanceTwo-sides Fallacy (also, Teach the Controversy): The presentation of an issue that makes it seem to have two sides of equal weight or significance, when in fact a consensus or much stronger argument supports just one side. Also called “false balance” or “false equivalence.”

@davethompson9776 3 ай бұрын

I have siblings drinking the kool aid and it appears to be a combination of things. The first is the lack of rational, logical, critical thinking abilities or knowledge that logic is not biased. Another is a very calculated misinformation blitz that’s very well calculated and directed at people they know are defenseless against dishonest assertions which was laid on top of a very deliberately placed foundation of mistrust of counter claims.

@garybowings1538 3 ай бұрын

"I'm ridin' Biden!" - Dave Thompson

@JR-pr8jb 3 ай бұрын

The question for your siblings is, "Why do you hate your life so much? Is there really some group of nonwhites who's responsible"?

@marianaj9 3 ай бұрын

@@garybowings1538It's pretty embarrassing that you feel the need to copy my responses. Get your own material.

@jackkeifer 3 ай бұрын

Bullseye! That's exactly it in a nutshell. Right wing media outlets make billions directly lying to and misleading their viewers, and they can get away with it for zero consequences as long as they start their lies with the proper weasel phrases such as "I heard from some people that...", "Suppose I were to tell you this...", "Here's something disturbing - xx says...", etc. This way if cornered, they can simply say that they never claimed it was fact, but that they were merely sharing with their audience something they heard, or they were just stating a hypothetical for people to ponder, etc. - all protected under the 1st amendment, but designed to lead viewers to a false conclusion, which is one of the most powerful forms of conditioning. Unfortunately there's a ton of profit in fear mongering, division, and hate.

@WordAte 3 ай бұрын

Trump voters are not bad. Those who enable Trump, the politically active Trump supporters are culpable. I appreciate you making the distinction. It is a shame that I spent my entire life having Conservatives call me a Communist because people like you told them Liberals were Communists to help the Conservative movement. I wish Conservatives would have made distinctions after McCarthy's red scare went out of favor.

@margaretwalsh8361 3 ай бұрын

Trump voters aren’t Trump enablers?

@Raydensheraj 3 ай бұрын

Conservatives are just proto fascists. As soon as things get hard....they immediately switch into extreme Christian nationalism or authoritarianism.

@charleswilliams3481 3 ай бұрын

I think in substance, Joe did better in debate than given credit. Too much focus on age from media, not enough real time fact checking. I get Trump is a former President, but when will anyone call him out live?

@johnfender6468 3 ай бұрын

They think there the CHOOSEN PEOPLE. They think this country owes them something. Just like Trump. Birds of a feather flock together.

@Raydensheraj 3 ай бұрын

Neo Confederates.

@spbx123 3 ай бұрын

His supporters are worse than him

@zen-Tii 3 ай бұрын

Yup, I disagree.

@triplebackspace3623 3 ай бұрын

Joe ! I don't care about how good someone is if they end up dragging me into a position where I am under an authoritarian regime , especially if they are going to hand the reigns of power to the morally worst possible authoritarian they could find ! Not that a more competent and moral authoritarian would be much better. I would resent & think less of , the persons who put me in such a position & I would be justified in that belief. Whatever reasons they have is insufficient to me because I now have to live with less freedoms & more risks to my well being , possibly even my survival.

@sandracraft517 3 ай бұрын

We've been told we need to understand MAGA people for 8 years now -- has anyone yet offered an explanation for them? Has anyone given us anything except the constant, "you need to understand, you need to understand"? Fine. We need to understand. So explain it. Except I now have the feeling that the explanation is just going to make the divide wider.

@steveshukowitsh4952 3 ай бұрын

I agree keep up the much-needed helpful conversation 👍👍👍

@jamesfranklin180 3 ай бұрын

Again, you can lay this problem at the feet of men like Ted Cruz, Mike Johnson, Lyndsey Graham, Biggs, and the Supreme court who just made bribery legal.

@garybowings1538 3 ай бұрын

Are you day drinking again?

@teresaamanfu7408 3 ай бұрын

@@garybowings1538 🥱😈

@garybowings1538 3 ай бұрын

@@teresaamanfu7408#BlueAnon #TDS

@teresaamanfu7408 3 ай бұрын

@@garybowings1538 🥱😈

@garybowings1538 3 ай бұрын

@@teresaamanfu7408#BlueAnon #TDS

@kristie825 3 ай бұрын

I'm a 54 year old life long Democrat. My family has always been Democrats. Until 2016. My mother voted for Trump. In 2020 my mother AND daughter voted for Trump. It made me physically ill to know that. But my mother and daughter are NOT bad people. They KNOW what I think. It changes nothing. Screaming at them IS NOT and HAS NOT changed how they voted or will vote this year. Calm conversations without accusations is THE ONLY THING that will change minds. I love them both but hate what they did. I don't hate THEM. Joe is speaking a very important truth. You cannot heal division without open, honest communication. We need to begin healing our country before it's too late.

@sailorx72 3 ай бұрын

Maybe we need to understand why some people get pulled into hate and fear. If we can figure that out maybe we can make society better.

@JR-pr8jb 3 ай бұрын

A decently funded educational system would help a lot. MAGA folks are victims of their red states' really poor, underfunded schools.

@weareelectricians9874 2 ай бұрын

Kennedy 2024

@mamaw49 3 ай бұрын

Joe, I've tried to talk to trump supporters. When I ask them questions or state my point of view, they get irate. If I'm talking to two or more trump supporters, I always feel like I'm being attacked by a rabid pack of dogs. I've been called a B, an ignorant sob, take my head out of my butt, I've been called stupid more times than I can count trying to talk to them. I don't discuss politics with anyone now because I'm tired of getting attacked. I'm extremely careful what I post on Facebook. During the 2016 election I learned with trump supporters, its better to be seen and not heard. I had a family member get so mad at me that they blocked and unfriended me. I didn't post anything political during the 2020 election. I would like to be able to talk to trump's supporters, but I've found when I say I'm not a trump supporter, they hear nothing after that and start in about how wonderful trump is. So I don't know if it's even worth trying to understand any of them.

@richardbeare11 3 ай бұрын

Wow, mate, this is super rough. I'm sorry that you've been snuffed like that - especially when coming family and friends. I think that this is inexcusable behavior. On the same hand - and I am sure that goes without saying, but I'll say it - this behavior is fear-based. Even smart and typically rational people can behave irrationally when they are immersed in an environment saturated with lies - and gaslighting - e.g. stories (coming from without and within the mind) that their welfare is under grave threat from some nefarious "deep state". Imagine actually believing that some political enemy is out there seeking to bankrupt you, suppress you, diminish you. Imagine you *truly* believed it. Seems crazy, but we know that this has become these folks' cognitive reality. I suspect that you are less susceptible to gaslighting and manipulation - which I think requires skill amd experience - to be able to filter out. Trump is a master of gaslighting. And I mean a true master. I stopped at the word master (not brilliant) because I don't want to conflate mastery and intelligence. I believe Trump is a f****** idiot, but (my perspective) has a certain special kind of learned behavior that gets him what he wants. I've experienced gaslighting before, and it's a hell of a thing. I know much better now how to detect it if it's happening to me or others, thankfully - and I bet you, too. I don't think everyone has that skill/experience.

@garybowings1538 3 ай бұрын

How do you feel about Jewish congregants being attacked in front of their synagogue in the city of Los Angeles by leftwing, antisemitic zealots who are your comrades?

@adambram 3 ай бұрын

Same here. I used to post on my public Facebook page, but I stopped. Logic, facts, history, and science don’t change their minds. They get angry and defensive. I’ll vote blue down the ballot because there is no “safe” Republican anymore, but I’m done wasting my time trying to convince people I know to step away from MAGA. If they haven’t made up their minds to do that yet then nothing I’m going to say is going to sway them.

@JDavidHopkins 3 ай бұрын

The biggest weakness Trump has is his inexperience. That’s why he attacks people’s character, ‘cause he’s hiding his inexperience on the issues & law. The government is based on laws & representatives must know the law if they are constructing laws. So, ask your relatives, who is a better law-maker, those who have been representatives in courts & legislatures or those who haven’t. Is a surgeon better than a landscaper at surgeries? Is a mechanic better than an accountant at fixing cars? Is a bookkeeper better than a doctor at keeping books?

@richardbeare11 3 ай бұрын

On a slightly different note: I'll share my approach to breaking through to people who disagree with me - even when perspectives differ greatly. First of all, facts don't work when there is not trust. If there is trust and openness between me and someone, then I can share facts and ideas - so long as I'm willing to hear there's too. Hearing doesn't mean believing or beciming "subject to" them! In cases where I have a stark difference in worldview, or understanding about what is "true", I try to apply curiosity, and try to be as genuine about that as I can. I can't let my own frustrations come through in starting a conversation with someone who has perhaps really intense frustrations or feelings about my beliefs. I might ask a question "hey, so you mentioned that ___ is ___, can you tell me more about that ?". I can tell you I am quite curious to understand how these people think because it's at a level that I've never seen in society on the whole before, and that is wild to me. People mostly want to be understood and listen to and heard. Curiosity from someone that they disagree with, generally that breaks down barriers. Giving permission to others to share their thoughts without perceived judgement is disarming. It can trigger introspection. This literally happens to me, when others have approached me in this way when I have a rigid belief about a topic, situation (often in the case of relationships and my professional life). I don't think everyone is going to be receptive to this but I hope some are. It's probably much harder when someone has already judged (or kmows) our perspectives/beleifs, and is primed to be on the defense and/or offense.

@M.J.212 3 ай бұрын

Propaganda is a common vehicle used to help create personality cults. Leaders are often depicted as superhuman, courageous, wise, and incapable of error. If a leader is viewed as god-like, it is less likely followers will criticize or question their policies or challenge their power.

@JohnRosado-n8t 3 ай бұрын

That's like saying the German people did not support Hitler wholeheartedly.......and loved Hitler to his core......

@M.J.212 3 ай бұрын

Demagoguery is an appeal to people that plays on their emotions and prejudices rather than on their rational side. Demagoguery is a manipulative approach - often associated with dictators and sleazy politicians - that appeals to the worst nature of people. Demagoguery isn't based on reason, issues, and doing the right thing; it's based on stirring up fear and hatred to control people. For example, a politician who stirs up a fear of immigrants to distract from other issues is using demagoguery.

@josephpowell3949 3 ай бұрын

When everybody was talking about how bad Biden did and he did, I also kept saying Trump did worse because he showed us who he was big-time!

@swayne1441 3 ай бұрын

The supporters are not bad just ignorant. Not even necessarily stupid they simply just don't know.

@thunderbird3694 2 ай бұрын

This does not stop with Donald Trump because it is a global phenomena, read "The Wannabe Fascists" by Federico Finchelstein, world-renowned expert on fascism.

@newenglandnomad9405 3 ай бұрын

Ignoring the noise, and momentarily ignoring Fox news, what are Trump voters factually afraid of, and I stress the word Factually?

@garybowings1538 3 ай бұрын

The Jewish congregants being attacked in front of their synagogue in the city of Los Angeles are afraid of your antisemitic comrades. Are you happy now?

@JR-pr8jb 3 ай бұрын

They hate their crappy lives, don't grasp that all human life is difficult, and they need to blame "others" for their perceived "victimization." Trump is the media Prince Of Victimization and Blame.

@marianaj9 3 ай бұрын

Being replaced by immigrants. Losing their privilege, and their conservative culture.

@sandracraft517 3 ай бұрын

Yes, that's what I want to know.

@jamesfranklin180 2 ай бұрын

When I mention Fox the only word I use is Foxfakenews. When I talk about the last president the only name I use for him is Bonespurs. When someone tries to claim he was good I tell them you mean the guy who stole money from students and veterans by running a foundation that was just a scam. The guy who asks you to buy his, stakes, gold, trading cards, stock, hats, shirts, sneakers, all made in China and worthless. Labeling him as a felon and fraud and those who support the felon and fraud while his supporters are robbed blind. It is important for others to here these things from every one of us.

@angelcastaneda529 3 ай бұрын

I mean, aren’t Charlie Kirk, members of Congress, and the conservative news outlets his supporters too?

@John-sl3on 3 ай бұрын

Yes they are.

@garybowings1538 3 ай бұрын

Are you referring to your leftwing, antisemitic zealot comrades who attack Jewish congregants in front of their synagogue in the city of Los Angeles?

@cashew515 3 ай бұрын

@@garybowings1538Just remember what the Nazis did more than 80 years ago! Those people are mostly Muslims,who have a beef with Israel and silly uneducated College students! Right winged People are more racist and Nazis!

@John-sl3on 3 ай бұрын

It's his racism Joe wake up buddy!

@complexmindsimpleman6642 3 ай бұрын

The title is laughable. All Trumpers aren't terrible perhaps but it takes a special type of person to still support Trump at this late stage

@garyvanremortel5218 3 ай бұрын

Delusional is not the same as bad.

@shushu-bd7de 3 ай бұрын

I have sent you an email. You didn't acknowledge my email. So, I'll just write here. Some people might have more insight than you think. Some of us might have given much more thought to this issue than you can possibly know. I certainly have. I've given much more than just "thought" to it. I've taken the time to research facts in depth, especially cultural and historical facts. I also have a degree in psychology with many additional years of research into sociopathy and narcissism. In fact, because I grew up in a family that was mixed race and mixed culture, I've been consumed with questioning why people think the way they think since I was five and went to kindergarten. It took me decades and decades to feel I had insight. Most people are not "good". What most people are is "not bad". We seem to exist on a bell curve. There is seemingly a percentage of people universally who are sociopaths, and it's about 5%. Everyone who isn't a sociopath/psychopath isn't automatically a good person. There are a lot of people pretty high on the spectrum who wouldn't qualify for a full diagnosis, but they are still pretty rotten humans, certainly at least another 5% of the population. Our society with our disparity routinely elevates them to power. I suspect there are about as many genuinely "good" and very good people at the opposite end of the curve. These are the people who spend their lives in service to others, who do little or no harm to anything, humans, animals, the world. I've known a couple of doctors that I consider genuine saints. I have been in awe of their goodness, their discipline, their integrity, their almost unfathomable effort to ending suffering through their practices and in volunteering medical care throughout the world. What most people are is creatures of immediate pressures and circumstances, as well as socialized to their cultural worldview. They are varying shades of gray. I sent you a link to a brilliant video on that subject, on how culture and learned values have us living in virtually different realities. People in this country have grown up with an insidious white supremacy that looks nothing like neo-nazis with tiki torches. It is ordinary, and pervasive. It's an ongoing hierarchy of values, of white Euro-culture as the ideal for all of humanity, and a cultural entitlement that has existed in this country for centuries. As recently as 1980, 87.5% of the American population was still white. They have been profoundly privileged, as evidenced by the statistics on every social measure that matters. To this day the median wealth for Black Americans is still less than one-tenth(!) that of the median wealth of white people! Despite all our lofty language, our erudite and philosophical invader white founders, the reality is that white people benefit at the expense of people of color and they have for 400 years. In the 2020 census, 71% of the population was considered "white" but in fact, only 61% identified as exclusively white. Those white people are losing their privilege in this country, even if they still hold most of the wealth, and white men still hold more than 90% of all the social and political power. The racism isn't what it has been since the 1600s anymore, and people of color talk back and fight back. We don't get to lynch Black people with impunity like we did when I was a child, making postcards out of photos of them hanging in trees. White people don't know what to do with themselves in this seismic change. In the 60s a famous psychology experiment was conducted in an attempt to understand how Nazi Germany could have occurred - Stanley Milgram's faux shock application experiment. It was still a burning question when I was young just a few years after the war. How could people be so horrible, we wanted to know. The findings were absolutely terrifying, and they have been replicated many times since then. Those findings were that under the right conditions, i.e., unyielding gradual pressure from a perceived authority figure, two out of three people will kill a total stranger just because another total stranger tells them to. So, I do disagree with you, Joe. Trump true believers may not be "bad" people, but they sure aren't "good" people. Good people cannot rationalize away a malignant narcissist like Trump. They can't do it. It's not possible. Trump supporters are just average people who have an entitled cultural worldview that is falling apart, they are victims of their own society, a highly stratified society that has preyed on ordinary people for centuries, and they've run out of places to invade and steal resources and start the whole thing all over again with them at the top of the ladder, like they did in the US. They are not big on measurable evidence, either, which is something I tend to get from you also, Joe. You are not big on facts. You don't introduce them, and like Trump supporters you are very invested in your own value judgments, like how universal healthcare is "extreme", according to you. Bernie Sanders has been for universal healthcare for many years, and he was Clinton's biggest challenger in 2016 for the democratic nomination. I think that shows more mainstream acceptance than you say exists. But you don't support your value judgment with any evidence on that score, and you should. You should be steering the conversation in that direction every time. Listening to each other is a fine thing, so long as we're standing shoulder to shoulder and looking at the same external phenomena. Using healthcare as an example, we can look at all the other developed nations, the costs, and statistics on outcomes. Debating "extremism" isn't anymore helpful than seeing other people as "bad". When we're debating nothing but abstract values, no one ever wins. We just join with other people who think like we do, and feel threatened by anyone who doesn't. And the sad reality is, most people don't want to give that much thought to things, and we aren't socialized to give that much thought to things. So we fall into these horrible divisions repeatedly, century after century, and we have for over a thousand years. A big part of that is because of our wealth seeking and our tremendous class and wealth disparity that we pursue all the time. Many other cultures don't do that. Read Peter Turchin's book, End Times. It's excellent, and it shows that we have these cycles of insanity very regularly. This is our time to be in one, and it really, really sucks.

@aw6841 3 ай бұрын

Amazing message. Thank you

@sarahsilverrose 3 ай бұрын

I'm a Democrat and I agree with you. We have to leave room at our table and make everyone feel welcome. Most of Trump supporters are victims of his lies and vitriol. Some have spent their life savings on him. They need a safe place to land.

@John-sl3on 3 ай бұрын

Its his racism Joe!!

@cestlavie7132 3 ай бұрын

Joe, thanks for your authenticity and willingness to see the big picture. You are an example of someone who takes moral responsibility and accountability for your past as well as giving us hope for our future.

@garybowings1538 3 ай бұрын

He didn't pay his court ordered child support. His kids went hungry. All because he was angry with his ex-wife. He took it out on his kids. Meanwhile he had a big beautiful boat. Sick.

@M.J.212 3 ай бұрын

What are some examples of rationalization? Examples of Rationalization Minimizing the situation (“It's really not that bad.”) Making excuses (“I didn't have enough time anyways.”) Blaming others (“It happened because they didn't do their work on time.”) Making comparisons (“What I did isn't as bad as what someone else did.”)

@wegder 2 ай бұрын

I live in a very maga State, trump will win by at least 30%. Most of these trump voters are not horrible people, most are extremely afraid of the progressive movement and all this talk of socialism and general wokeness, I can't fault them for voting against progressives, I dread the day that I have to vote for a progressive but I would to stop Trump

@gatblau1 3 ай бұрын

I have several friends who are Trump supporters and who are really good people who will reach out and help you when you need help. We rarely talk politics. I think some of them get tunnel vision on a few issues such as crime and punishment, immigration, abortion, or other issues and fail to see the bigger picture of what they are supporting in the MAGA movement, then get sucked into the alternate facts wormhole that is right wing media. I am an independent due to some issues on which I feel the democrats are going in the wrong direction, but see the bigger picture of what a danger MAGA is to our democracy and have and will vote democrat to fight this dangerous movement.

@shootcutdeliver 3 ай бұрын

Thanks Joe for this !

@jimmythebold589 3 ай бұрын

i work with a woman who is a trump supporter. she's one of the finest people i know, she's very loving and giving and generous. it makes me sad that she knows nothing about trump (she gets her information about trump from her husband, who is a macho trucker dude). the hardworking and kind coworker would hate trump , in person.