TRYHARD QOP MID IN RANKED

[@Mythkos]

People like having gold on supports because having gold is FUN for 99% of the player base. Making the game more fun, creates more engagement and players in the community - and more money for Valve indirectly. Even if the game is in a better state of balance when supports have less gold, you could argue that having more gold is better for the game as a whole for the above factors.

[@-gid-9072]

I completely agree with this. I have been playing support for over 15 years and I think having more gold makes the game more fun. Another way to make the game more fun for supports would be to add some mechanic that is unique to supports but balancing that would be a nightmare.

[@Mabujold]

yeah every player I've seen argue that there is too much gold on supports were core players. I will say that while I much prefer the current state of the game than when supports were running around with brown boots+wards at min 20+, I would like to see how the game feels if the support gold gets tuned down a little bit.

[@Saddsquatch125]

I disagree based on experience, because before in pubs NO ONE wanted to play support, because having no money feels bad, you don't get to play the same game when every drop of money you got was spent on wards and smokes. Seeing half of your team being able to get items that massively augment and improves how you can play while you're stuck in the dirt feeling like a glorified pack mule isn't fun. That's the point of the game in the end, to enjoy yourself, and it's not very effective when only half of the people playing get to have fun. And this effect only got worse if you were behind in your match, so I, for one, am enjoying being able to actually get items and still feel powerful while not having farming priority.

[@tingol10]

Yeah, he seems to be missing how much more fun playing support is and how much more fun competitive games are when you don't come out of lanes like a fucking hobo with 12 min boots cuz you're pooling your cores with regen while suffering.

[@zachariahkindle8926]

As a counter point...... I've played core more and more frequently over the years, to the point where I almost exclusively play mid now. Do I want to, not really, I much prefer to play support, the problem is no one else wants to, everyone wants to play pos 4 that farms like a 3 and pos 5 that buys Gliepnier + euls. I still prefer the support play style, and frankly I think I'm better at it, but man oh man do I miss the days when I could legitimately play a pos 4 roamer who was rich if I got an urn, or a legitimate position 6 sacrificial support. Gimme back the days of "the only thing I have is my hero skills to work with, and I can still fuck you up cuz I'm just better"

[@Saddsquatch125]

@@zachariahkindle8926 I see the appeal of that, as you are right I have felt that effect myself, especially for mid. Perhaps the best middle ground would be to scale back the amount of money available somewhat, but not to the point it was at the start of dota? That way supports aren't begging for scraps by mid game, but still aren't to the same degree that core roles are.

[@salmanrasyid5799]

​@@zachariahkindle8926yeah the "i can still outplayed you just by my skill" is definitely more enjoyable and making support has a lot maro gold supposed to be make match more aggressive (more gold from killing) but instead they are farming to fulfill the minus gold of their item so game become more stagnant 😂

[@imserge9559]

Been playing support since Dota 1 and trust me, playing as support back then with only brown boots and wand at 40 min mark felt so much despair especially if you're losing. I guess its rich coming from core player

[@NoobMicesters]

For me the saddest part of all the support gold, is my favourite role doesn't exist anymore. Dedicated roamer, I LOVED playing a dedicated roamer, no lane, I just wondered between lanes setting up kills from minute 0. It was so fun. I didn't care that at 20 mins my inventory was Arcanes, wand and half a forcestaff, I had so much fun

[@zachariahkindle8926]

Pos 4 roamer and sacrificial position 6 were peak support

[@NoobMicesters]

@@zachariahkindle8926 100% it was so fun both playing as the support and as the solo offlaner. I loved it all. Was my favourite time to play dota. Just running around as an ES, level 3 at 8 mins but not feeling bad.

[@DIChronicAddict1]

Midlane player doesn't want supports to be anything other than a sack of 300 gold. That very same midlaner next game when he has to play support because nobody else wants to: 😭

[@wavedash101]

Chat was really brainrot with the whole dagon discussion.

[@Delacrow_l_Chawngthu]

As a support player having gold is fun. You can actually do something to delay or accelerate the game even if your cores are not that good.

[@ThePhiphler]

Great video, the editing and Wagas commentary on Dota really makes these videos fun. Short coment on Deadlock since you mentioned it: Deadlock seems to be segmenting into carry/support now as well, given that people have learned where the farm is and you can choose who gets the unsecured souls when an enemy drops them

[@Phoenix-il5hc]

As a player who play almost all roles, I agree with your starting point. I am playing dota for like almost 20 years now (since when it was a mod of warcraft 3). I also feel like there is too much gold, I use to view like pos 1 as farming, 2 farm some but gank, 3 was sacrificial and needed and play dead lanes and needed few items for initiate, 4 roam and 5 is wards and babysit safe. There were few heroes like dark seer specialized in building auras and now I feel like every one even pos 4 have enough gold to buy one. Idk its just feels soo inflated and makes positioning and mistakes soo less punishing. I was watching this TI and it was like team fights happens and everyone have pipe crimson greaves glimmer solar etc etc.. and no one dies. You can even recover from worst lanes which decreases value of strong lanes. Its just feels wrong and deviating from OG concept of dota. But like waga said its just my opinion.

[@JPBGdeSouza]

I remember how poor supports used to be in Dota 1, wards were more more expensive and tps too. Now it's a piece of cake.

[@qbasanus]

Yeah man, I gotta disagree on the support gold discussion, playing as a support with nothing but brown boots, tp scrolls, wards and dust in your inventory at 40m mark was miserable. The only people complaining about support gold are core mains lmao

[@pepemiko]

Esp those cores who cry when you take a last hit that they obviously cannot get. They ping you non stop then go afk jungle and tell you "you play core now"

[@Godkinlaxus]

What about playing non traditional supports? I’ve seen a lot of people complaining how certain heroes without farm as a support is totally useless, but I beg to differ.

[@IRDANIMAL]

Did you say 15,000 or 50,000 hours?

[@UpItIsMe]

50k

[@perjohansson8099]

sounded like 50, but with 21k games on his main acc ~13000 hours that sounds to high for me even with dota 1 included so misspeak or counting hours like steam does and not ingame?

[@BB8enjoyer]

used to be a time when you push Q dagger on qop and auto win the lane cuz it takes 65% hp each dagger

[@Imaginary12]

he man's opinon is valid. is this why support bh works so well now? not sure exactly what changes you are talking about.

[@BB8enjoyer]

Waga is Midplayer at heart. He speaks for all of us, support torturers

[@Sherudons]

SOME things are set in stone.. like PA with BKB... Remember what happened last time you played PA without a BKB....? Though I am of the old mindset with gold, a support should have brown boots and a forcestaff and be considered rich instead of 6 slotted and BB saved, it did cut the amount of useful supports though since a good deal are virtually gimped without items.

[@gcextol8129]

50k hours? 😮 Thats ~10 hours every day from the dota2 beta start 😂 holy moly thats a lot

[@Jiwa-Money-Sdn-Bhd]

@3:21 whats with 1k gold luna kill

[@gustavokazuma486]

Based waga

[@QronoZ713]

Game is more fun now.

[@czernodog8403]

thumbnail is just straight up wrong?

[@googleforcedhandle]

Agreed with the support rant, I feel like I had more of an impact as a support in 2013 than now, back then the difference between a support who knew what it was doing, having proper positioning, knowing the best ward spots, knowing when to use spells, etc was big, if all you had was brown boots at 15 minutes was because you were a bad support, you either wasted a lot of money on sentries because you didn't know how to properly deward, you died a lot because you didn't now how to make use of your skills or you just didn't help you carry get kills. Only bad supports had absolutely no gold.

[@googleforcedhandle]

Right now no matter how bad you play as a support you are gonna get like 3 items, placing shit sentries or obs don't matter because everything is stupidly cheap. Dying a lot doesn't matter because just standing near a kill will get you a lot of xp and gold, nevermind the tormentors and that xp rune. There isn't a big difference between a good and a really good support player like before.

[@akshayy_xd]

​@@googleforcedhandle sucks to be you 😢

[@1BlackLamb]

Bro why is Waga yapping so much

[@souradeepdev7337]

Rich capitalist carry wants supports to remain poor.

[@johnzombies4438]

🫃🏿

[@3044Smike]

More gold for supports = better for casual play, worse for competitive play. There are upsides and downsides to it all, I do feel, as a support and offlane player, the game is a lot more forgiving these days and player skill has a lot less of a place outside of the laning phase.

[@fallen8320]

No core really likes super rich sups in games, it's like there is nothing to kill on the map, every sup hero is a save sup since they have glimmer and force or crest. kinda loses meaning of minimal money with perfect spell press meaning.

[@ThanosWasRightt]

Wrong build mate, this face is almost impossible to play without dagon first item. You had a very good game here, but realize that you were dealing more dmg to yourself than to the enemies.

[@tageslichtvlr]

third