Trying to Explain Why Shadowspear Primaris Are Just Dumb

[@TheOuterCircle]

Boy, what a hard episode to record. I guess it boils down to this; either because “magic” exists, anything dumb that happens is ok, or, dumb things that defy logic are just that, dumb. But whatever, the chaos part of the set looks ok, so people will buy it, GW will take that as incentive to further pollute their IP with kid friendly themed junk.

[@braydoxastora5584]

You don't like gundam marines?

[@T3CH33]

@CrossCynical With a headswap they ARE Zakus

[@caboosealmighty3735]

uploaded it wrong? for some reason its 3 hours for me

[@braydoxastora5584]

@@caboosealmighty3735 oh shit just noticed it too

[@kennethbedwell5188]

@@T3CH33 Oh dear god I will never be able to un-see that.

[@robertomacari501]

“If kids can afford this hobby, they’re dealing drugs” 😂😂

[@GrrttDubya1337]

It's true. Im a legal cannabis budtender and i just bought shadowspear.

[@konradcurzethereturnedandv2845]

As a high-school teacher concerned about rises in drug use, I typically watch my students to see which ones are playing or talking about 40k. We've almost completely solved the drug problem at our school by just keeping an eye on the 40k kids. You'd think it's just a game, but it isn't: I remember how one afternoon, during lunch, a large group of troublemakers (the "usual suspects" constantly in and out of detention) were gathered around a table watching a game of the concerningly-named "Kill Team". Our school's police officer came in to the cafeteria with his K9 unit and the dog started immediately going wild, almost dragging the offficer over to the table where the kids were sat. Some of the kids snuck off, but the rest - about eight or nine - didn't notice until the cop was right behind them, asking to look inside their school bags. It didn't take long for us to find the motherlode. About half of the kids were expelled; all received severe disciplinary punishments. Just remember: Warhammer isn't a joke. It's dangerous. If your teen is in to wargaming, talk to him or her about the dangers before it's too late.

[@benzelrhomb]

In the grim darkness of the far future there is only profit.

[@Reggaepoika112]

I used to love the universe of 40k (I still do somewhat) and the models, because it's the absolute best scifi universe that is grim dark and epic. THAT is why now I'm angry, because I've been so invested in it and GW is just releasing shitty cartoony models and doing some disney shit with the lore. I'm angry because GW is purely a greedy miniature maker that doesn't understand what a great universe they had.

[@techlarsh.q1036]

I feel you.

[@angrehtimmeh1072]

I imagine the recoil from those autocannons, full auto, while airborne, would turn the primaris marine into a helicopter. It seems that fanciful to me, not grimdark.

[@tristanellis-mascoll1171]

Imagine having a device on the back the nullifies some of the recoil (like a grav chute), and having a special version of said gun that compensates some of the recoil itself... And just for the record: that power armor is not made of plastic either...

[@timothycluff3559]

@@tristanellis-mascoll1171 Do they have special guns?

[@tristanellis-mascoll1171]

@@timothycluff3559 According to lore the weapons used by space marines are adjusted for their purpose. And since Primaris are even stronger than normal Marines, their gear is also crafted to fit their duty. (With like 10.000 years of master crafting behind it)

[@timothycluff3559]

@@tristanellis-mascoll1171 wasn't technological advancement stunted for a long time though. However I think we should both admit we're not physicists (I'm assuming that) and dont have expertise on forces acting on aerial firing. The problem I see is the grimdark aesthetic is slowly disappearing, it is to some degree personally subjective, but the gradual dissapearing of the grimdark feel was the main point of my comment and it seems incontestable. Thanks for responding to comments from years later, it rarely happens and I do like being challenged.

[@tristanellis-mascoll1171]

@@timothycluff3559 You dont have to study anything to understand it. Where did that myth even come from? About the "disappearing of grimdark" As much as I encounter the lore the last years, I feel 40k has become even darker than before. But we have become numb to it. Like the F bomb, in our childhood and now. We get constantly bombard with dark, grim and grimdark, it doesnt really affect us anymore. And yes there are individuals that despise technological advancements, but if you have one like Belsarius Calw telling you to do it, disobeying could lead to a future as a servitor.

[@billdoor1569]

Forgot to say before but the term you are looking for is internally inconsistent, its also externally inconsistent, this leads to breaking your suspension of disbelief.

[@LiliaArmoury]

*loudly rips velcro* enemy guard: must have been the wind

[@mrspeigel3593]

Did you just fart?

[@HonzoRich]

You almost made me spit out my Chinese food 😂😂😂.

[@MothMan-jl3qh]

If you yell really loud while undoing your velcro, they won't hear it coming apart.

[@youngarchaeotech189]

Primaris are just tau with power armour. Change my mind.

[@joevines3428]

That's not fair man, the Tau are not that bad.

[@youngarchaeotech189]

Joe Vines I never said that. Just that they are objectively the same thing.

[@joevines3428]

@@youngarchaeotech189 mate I'm joking, the Tau used to be the least grim dark and most anime like faction, but them not being complete marry sues, and having decent lore makes up for their "unusual" ascetic. yes the Primaris Marines are like fucking cartoonishly stupid, like something from starcraft, and the lore makes no sense, they are better than regular marines and they've all been on ice for 10 milenia, thank god they've shown up now!

[@voltamars8306]

@El Duderino The new sculpts are pretty good. But I only recently got into 40k, don't own any tactical squads and read about the lore with Cawl and primaris marines and think it's dumb.

[@kingjonstarkgeryan8573]

Aggressors they got power fist with close range weapons designed to clear infantry screens and then tear vehicles and heavy infantry to pieces.

[@armedbrit493]

Cawl and primaris could have been so easy to bring in. Cawl's been working on Primaris for 10k years and he's had access to Corax's rebuilding notes. It's taken that long and that many failures to get to primaris. Bish bash bosh good fluff. Cawl lives for 10k years because he downloads himself into new brains every 1000 years or so, so he can keep going. He's got some dark age tech that lets him do it. Old fluff says Girlyman was meant to be healing in stasis, he's had 10 millenia to heal. fucker could have woken up. Hell he could have had visions of the emperor and woken up and done whatevs. Fukken Eldar space magic... on an primarch... with the blessings of the chapter thats such sticklers for rules they were conflicted about Tyranic war veterans. FFS.

[@lostsanityreturned]

Bingo bango

[@SockPupet]

I still Think it would have been better to have Fabulous bile succeed in mass producing enhanced chaos marines first and Imperil responding to the threat buy resorting to adapted thunder warrior tech. Have the enhanced marines powerful but short lived and unstable, a desperate gambit.

[@armedbrit493]

@@SockPupet Neo thunder warriors would have been good to see. 0-3 squads as an elite choice.

[@01oo011]

The auto cannon guys are like the jump pack dreadnought. Stupid looking and could have been done better. Not a fan of “Phobos” armor either, the ankles and stomach section just look weird. Intercessors are way better looking. Other than that the 3 scouts look great, the 40k recon squad we need.

[@Demortixx]

I love the phobos way more than intersesor.

[@19Crusader91]

I like how they keep releasing new models for army that completly and utterly shit. R.I.P.: Drop Pod, Terminators and the SM armies in general.

[@minimundus1712]

Thats one of the problems they want to modernize the 40k univers and change it like you said.

[@kaiji4788]

>Complaint about GW making things looking modern >Imperial guard *** exist ***

[@minimundus1712]

@@kaiji4788 What is modern in the IG the tanks look like they are from ww1

[@DarkLordOfSweden]

@@kaiji4788 a faction that mostly use ww1 and 2 tactics, yea that modern , and we already live in a postmodern world

[@kaiji4788]

DarkLordOfSweden Ummm WW1 Soldier suit didn’t change much, there are also Elysian

[@Warhamer116]

@@kaiji4788 elysian are basically US paratroops from WW2 in nutshell

[@AviadMD]

Why do they even need the grav-chute? just point those 50 cal to the ground and let it rip ala A-Team. One of the stupidest releases in a while

[@EMWandMBW]

Sounds like a good pose to model them in.

[@EMWandMBW]

All those aerodynamics and little winglets to steer and yet GIANT GUN won't mess with descent profile.

[@arcus9590]

@@EMWandMBW It will, but on the upside they have a giant gun

[@requited2568]

The orc race cars top this release. Primaris are still the special Olympics winners though. Until they release the first female space Marine but I have to admit I am looking forward to most of the chapters rebelling when that happens and I am pretty sure it would wake the emperor up and have him finally put down Papa Smurf.

[@daviddickson412]

@@requited2568 There were female marines released back in rogue trader. Look on ebay...

[@urthofthenewsun8465]

I’m a chronic underdog faction player. I collected Bretonnia during Fantasy 8E, Empire during AoS and currently play IG for 40k. The amount of good kits that I’ve seen get axed over the years so GW can make slight variations of Space Marines has driven me insane

[@ABorderPrince]

Iv been trying to explain why the whole thing is dumb for months 😁

[@highreclusiarchgrimaldus3832]

Morning Prince! You guys ought do a livestream together!

[@kennethbedwell5188]

What? You don't like the Zaku Marines?

[@eisenhorn5494]

Dude those jump troops, Starship troopers??? And fuck the skinnys.

[@BUSSTISEBOOST]

It is a mockery of the Emperor’s work. GW always sets up to disappoint.

[@zeno6111753]

@@BUSSTISEBOOST and they're getting really good at it!

[@trajanthegreat2928]

With that supposedly "stealthy" HQ, just compare it to the Forgeworld Vigilator. Bigger cloak, no dangly bits, helmet and non-helmet options, more subdued pose. Fulfils the same role much better in my opinion.

[@raymondwalach9955]

I don’t think you need to explain why the shadowspear primarus models with the heavy weapons are dumb, just looking at them they don’t look like 40k. They look more like gundam wing than anything else.

[@mrspeigel3593]

And I like Gundam Wing but not all up in my 40k, gothic not anime

[@kaiji4788]

How so ? They have huge gun and that doesn't make them look like 40k ?

[@Coproquim]

@@kaiji4788 they look like leo suits

[@Ojthemighty]

Derpy gundamn

[@kaiji4788]

Ojthemighty Gundam is already derpy tho (I mean srsly look at the recent anime/fig, they have thruster that are 2 time bigger than the suit it selves)

[@ProjectRevoltNow]

"I've never been so frustrated at a companies inability to do things right than I have with Games Workshop" I literally ranted about this to one of my best pals who I play 7th ed with about how 3.5 was great for Chaos codex and 4th and 5th were the best editions despite the abominations of codexes Matt Ward produced and taking servo arms away from my iron warriors which I never got back seriously pissed me off (I house rule pay for servo from imperium stats.)I hate the lack of customization with primaris mono pose and beyond looking vanilla the lore for them is destroying the medieval/sci-fi grim dark setting for the imperium and now they look silly and the lore is stupider than the models... Maybe not 40k Guillimans hideous abomination of face. That is the worst sculpting I've EVER seen from GW. I've ranted about how 8th took away some of the most fun rules of the game which added realism and tactical gameplay like firing arcs/armor facing on tanks, blast and flame templates are awesome(hilarious when you accidentally scatter on to your own unit) etc... but the way GW is going I plan on playing 7th ed and house ruling things with my friends I play 7th with because I pretend Cawl, Primaris and all these retarded lore changes don't exist kind of like the new Star Wars movies. They're basically terrible fan fiction made "canonical". I hate GW so much but I love the 40k universe and 4th-7th a ton despite the flaws I house rule around lol. 8th is dog shit. I knew the rules were terrible. I tried 5 or 6 games and hate it. Killteam is fun but if you play Inquisitor tabletop you see how simplified and retarded it is compared to Inquisitor a D100and D10+D6 matrix instead of a D6 matrix and I`ve played Inquisitor with 60 models on table all with health totals average being 55, wounds to different limbs with different effects and severity levels (groin shots are hilarious with power fists) you can parry, dodge, backflip(special talent's for characters exist),reposition, knock people down, knock weapons out of their hands, break weapons etc. GW wants as many Plebs playing as possible. That's why things are the way they are now. We will never have a game as complex as Inquisitor ever again and it is so realistic it makes me sad they don't support it and we get nonsense like 8th ed. Anyways that's my rant about GW :p

[@Pepperoniman776]

The majority of changes in 8th is for the reason that there needs to be more players in the game. The game is more accessible than ever before, with simple to pick up core rules and more complex rules on the unit cards. 8th edition is great fun imo and not vastly different in choices while being streamlined to allow new players in. What kind of company would purposefully make their game less accessible, resulting in less coverage, less uptake and importantly less MONEY. Their choices have obviously been the right ones for the most part because the game is as big and profitable as ever.

[@ivan_says_hi]

Have you ever shot an mg from a helo?? Imagine shooting an artillery cannon from the same size helo. Look at the size of the gun on the new fairy Marines. If the gun can survive the heat of re entry it must weigh more than the Marine using it. Imagine trying to stay "hovering" while shooting that giant gun! That marine would fly around like an balloon with a hole on it.

[@EMWandMBW]

Zomg fairy marines! I need primaris fairy wings.

[@pbertolini]

Not if the thrusters on the jumpjets were designed to fire in order to compensate for the recoil of the gun. As long as there's a force vector equally applied in the opposite direction their stability would be unaffected.

[@ivan_says_hi]

@@pbertolini there are 3 things wrong with your comment. 1: unlike the old dual bolter fairy marines the auto cannon can only be fired from one side as is seen by the way the model holds it. The force vector will never be symmetrical on the X plane. 2: the thrusters are all positioned above the gun on the Y plane so the thrusters firing and the gun firing at the same time would cause the Marine to do front flips like an idiot. unless the magic boots can create thrust in literally whatever direction they want (if that's what you want to argue then why even have thrusters? Just add more grav boots to his backpack instead) there is no physical way that given the position of the thrusters and the position of the gun this fucking thing would work even assuming magical future kawl pattern thrusters with no mass, infinite thrust and infinite specific impulse. NO WAY! 3: you actually un ironically defended the Marie Sue Marines and their elite fairy squadrons.

[@pbertolini]

ivan says hi chill dude, my point was that physics could allow recoil to be offset, not that i like the model. Take a deep breath my duder, its just minis.

[@ivan_says_hi]

@Trevak D'hal that's obviously not what they are going for as unlike classic assault marines there does not appear to be any way to remove the back pack and also the stupid little grav boots seem to be fixed in place as well. It honestly looks like if the fairy marine ran out of fuel or something they would not be able to walk at all, much less be combat effective with that giant cannon. I appreciate the thought, and I suppose it's not impossible but given the action poses of the models on transparent flight stands I think its extremely obvious that the flying mechanic is not just an insertion mechanic like the drop pod. These guys are obviously meant to be mobile airborne fire support and not just shitty drop pod devastators but with extra steps.

[@zeno6111753]

Those GI Joe toys with waffle irons on their feet look just ridiculous!

[@zeno6111753]

@Trevak D'hal I think thats where 40k is at, and will just continue the crappery moving forward. Those Young Adventure books is a true sign of things to come.

[@tomhowes2518]

Well they are toys

[@shortlong8936]

@@tomhowes2518 unlike the usual models.

[@mrspeigel3593]

Go look up an Iron Grenadiers Targat and compare it to a Interceptor (the orbital drop dual gun guys, I can't keep these newfangled names straight), the do the same with an Annihilator and compare to the new flying guys you may be closer than you think.

[@tomhowes2518]

Short Long they are toys too

[@Ethan-jg9sw]

The giant boots remind me of the Rescue Heroes toys I had as a kid

[@cathode6252]

WH40K fluff used to fascinate me, even excite me. Now I am just waiting for the giant hamster folk to show up in power armour. Then after that Horus will come back and declare himself gay. And after that Gork and Mork will have a threesome with slaanesh which will spawn:_________ (Fill in the blank)

[@guywatkins5590]

"Will spawn...yet further disappointment" 🤣

[@guywatkins5590]

Seriously though totally Agree, been delving deep into all then heresy audio books while I paint. And it's just in another league compares to the hot mess that is current 40k

[@RussellWilliams736]

Don't give GW any ideas!

[@cathode6252]

@ᴀʟᴛ-ᴄᴇɴᴛʀɪsᴛ yeah, using words like cretin make you sound like a role-play inquisitor. You're a fan-boy. Don't cry so hard.

[@techlarsh.q1036]

Loyalist Ork marines. That are a black. Because that's how progress works.

[@vodosvids2]

The thing that is so painful about all this primaris stuff is it COULD have been very well implemented. They could have for example written a whole lot of fluff about all the difficulties Cawl went through over the full 10K years to make all this stuff and make it suitably 'grim dark' (incorperating heretical xenos tech into the new tech, sacrificing millions of test subjects in primaris experiments ect). Instead as it stands it just feels like Cawl had all this stuff just sitting around for ages and just happened to pull it all out of his ass just at the right moment. You think if that were the case he might of unveiled his new stuff a few thousand years earlier, bobby g's say so or not. Stealth has always been a problem with supposedly 'stealthy' SM models right from the start. Those bright yellow imperial fists scouts sure do make for some sneaky infiltrators! I tend to mostly like the new primaris models but the ones on flying bases (that deep strike in from orbit) just look stupid. Drop pods were the epitome of space marine tactics. Why primaris marines dont make usage of them (or for some reason cant fit into any older SM transports) makes no sence at all. Also having no dedicated primaris heavy CC unit thus far seems pretty odd, Astartes realy make the most tactical sense when fully using their supper human strength and fighting skills.

[@ignitedxblaze]

I feel like gw might retcon the whole dark age setting to sell new shinny models ... I wish they went for plastic heresy instead, but that's probably not happening

[@armedbrit493]

3rd & 4th were beautiful editions. Love the 3rd ed looks and darkness.

[@lostsanityreturned]

3e was my favourite from a lore perspective

[@thesheeteels8252]

Fair enough. GW tried to get around the stagnation issue by saying that the new technology is technically old, given they had the idea right at the end of the heresy, but it’s not altogether convincing. I think The Ultramarine paint scheme makes the units look even more unstealthy. The dangly whatnots too. I think the models are attractive, but they are starting to look more and more like 80s toys and cartoons. Pity.

[@TalexTheLich]

I didn't know gundam was making a table top game :0

[@joshuadarrow]

The suppressors, the autocannon guys, almost look like they were something designed back in rogue trader, when marines had punk Mohawks and tyranids didn’t exist. As it stands now they just look a bit out of place, even compared to the other vanguard units.

[@BUSSTISEBOOST]

“How do you make a better bolt gun?” According to Plague War the improvement is it’s range by 60 metres and that’s it.

[@ravener96]

A standard 40mm grenade launcher of today beats the bolter out. It needs the explosives to deal with the serious armour of the far future, but it slings that pill a kilometer if you use the good high pressure stuff.

[@inquisitorspironhark7894]

When I read a BL book with Primaris in it I begin to come around to them but then GW releases a new Codex/Campaign or Model and I am back to square one.

[@RussellWilliams736]

Agreed I really like them in the books I've read, but the codexes and the models don't do them justice.

[@jamesknighton4489]

You could make an argument about the same thing you addressed here with the regular marines (more to the Raven guard and per heresy Night lords) not to say I like the primaries marines I'm more looking forward with the black legion model in this box set. Great video man

[@henrythe9th377]

Hey, yet another shitty practice from GW. GW selling tickets to the warhammer fest in May, yet the gaming events for this are being sold on a third party website. Last year they were selling the Blood Bowl gaming tickets on their own website, now they’re not. So infuriating

[@shirleylyn11]

camoflage is the color of cowards.

[@cloaker2829]

stupid

[@ScubaD311]

"Jangly shit".... combined with safety vests. Fucking PRICELESS!!🤣🤣

[@stephenbond1990]

Just thought I should mention that grav chutes can scale to work on Sentinels, so you could work one up for a space marine but its still pretty stupid as gw have implemented it.

[@gagethyous]

All of this is VERY valid and very nice to listen to, but good lords, they seriously need to go down on the pricing of everything (This is coming from a guy that likes a lot of the newer stuff out, but not the way it's being handled by a long shot). Making a Militarum-Tempestus force is going to be a real pain beyond measure, let alone anything from the new Primaris lists they're trying to push. Not to mention, why can't regular ground pounder Primaris get the autocannon, or since Cawl is obviously blinging them out, some sort of miniaturized accelerator cannon a la the Astraeus? Thank you all that are part of The Outer Circle. With your stuff and hard work, we can see that change isn't bad for a long-running franchise like 40k, but when you completely run against the constraints and rules you've established and maintained, and act in a pretty tone-deaf manner, it's going to lead to a bad time... Keep up the great work as ever, and can't wait for more

[@ARandomPerson66]

Sadly, I don't see why would they ever put the prices down... Also, fun fact, in america and UK, the increases on the start collectings were either 5 or 10 of the currency, in every euro using countries, it's either 5 or directly 15. Which doesn't, make, sense. But hey, GW likes to screw people over and unfairly.

[@nobleman9393]

I don't agree with you, most of imperial vehicles and weapons require magic to work.

[@alphariusomegon4442]

I love the fact to this video came out only for them to axe the Elysian drop troop range of Imperial Guard.

[@blessedpeas]

I have my unseasoned dinner ready for its salt

[@bigchunk1]

I would be interested to hear what changes you would propose to make to the 40k universe that would be both lore consistent and interesting.

[@thewayfarer8849]

I don't get how they FINALLY focus on Black Legion (the Chaos equivalent of the UM), you see the FW beauty in things like all the new Blood Angels (High hopes for Khan and Stormseer models)...but we have those weird gundam Primaris in swings with a cannon. I tried. I like Cawl (for what he is in Wolfsbane and In the Grim Darkness), but they make it so much WORSE by Primaris lacking something in Gothic style. The modern militaristic junk, removal of the goddamn aquila...it's like there's a balance of what faction gets good or shit attention (BL V Vanguard). Biglymarines rub in the salt because they COULD be good, but we get terrible art design and fucking drivel like War of Secrets ("Armoured Ogryns" is such a slap in the face it's hilarious, like fuck would AM worshipping DA with open arrogance be allowed to live) Calgar is like 40K Luther, fucking Ventris undergoes Rubicon before Dante/Grimnar/GK Grand Masters, we needed a reason not to shit on Primaris and "they're green, big and wooo maybe they're Wulfen/Death Company soon maybe not" just fuels the fire in the worst way. Here's hoping Abbadon was something they put the smart people on.

[@kenandersson4421]

I am on your side with this, the only two things I like with the primaris is there intercessors looks and inceptors roles as a support for assault marines but not how they look. And for every game I play I like 8th and 40k less and less. So I am refocusing more and more for horus heresy and 30k.

[@TheJimmy000]

Yeah those flying primaris just look ridiculous

[@ChainsawDunDeez]

Um...The point of space marines is not Hiding...they wear power armour..they don't usally use cover..they want to be seen....their image is to be feared...hell their was a Old Chapter Trait called 'Take Pride in your colours' preventing your Space Marines from getting cover saves..but gaining a 6+ invonrable or Feel no pain save..this was in the 4th or 5th edition Space Marines codex..using the create your own chapter using a selection of traits.

[@zerominiatures4676]

I like em. But they really shouldn't wear blue and i agree that the dangly bits should be gone.

[@zerominiatures4676]

Trevak D'hal I feel like there should be more gothic ornamentation ON the armor instead of hanging from it, I would have done the exact same if my broke ass could afford it

[@kennethbedwell5188]

@@zerominiatures4676 I buy stuff from Shapeways to emboss the armor

[@HonzoRich]

It looks like GW is making grimdark slowly becoming noblebright with this new tech being introduced. Or, with the cicadrix maledictum, GW can have grimdark in one part of the galaxy and noblebright in the other and have it both ways...😲.

[@masonfoster151]

So GW has just said fuck chaos marines and stop playing normal Marines. Wow! i love how chaos is supposed to have the old tech. yet they cant have artificer armour, drop pods, and many other old tech that SM have still. so what does chaos get, marks..oh wait they got rid of those, some old tech like auto cannons..oh wait now PSM have those. and there are plenty more examples. i miss the days of 4th-5th. the game at its peak.

[@BUSSTISEBOOST]

Mason Foster I love how Chaos is suppose to be a threat yet the box set shows Primaris can have a pretty decent chance of fucking Chaos up. No rule update on CSM to allow 2 wounds as it would make “space marines on TableTop closer to the lore.” Its funny. Buy Primaris we are gradually erasing your joy anyways so just do it.

[@claravinas9265]

Technically not true. There are a lot more players buying a lot more plastic now. More releases more updates a more diverse meta. I mean, 8th is pretty much the golden age of 40k by any measure

[@daviddickson412]

Vehicle damage chart went away and tanks lost armour values and got wounds... dark times indeed...

[@claravinas9265]

@@daviddickson412 Truly, special vehicles rulesets were the soul of 40k

[@claravinas9265]

@@BUSSTISEBOOST But Chaos is getting all kinds of cool new toys, new havoc guns, new monsters upgraded versions of old units like oblits and possessed. Not to mention, to legions getting their own books and model lines to themselves! I dont get it, chaos has the second most attention/love to the Imperium, which is democratically fair, if anyone should bitch, its Eldar players (in terms of models, not rules)

[@danuk459]

I know I'm full well in the minority here but I only joined in 5th ed, so I've not experienced 4th ed and earlier. At first I was skeptical about the sudden simplicity of 8th ed compared to what we were used to in 7th ed. However after playing it enough times I started to enjoy the rules and games felt like they ran much smoother. As a test me and my friend went back to 7th ed to see whether we missed it or not. We definitely did not miss it! It took us twice as long to get anything done and the rules just felt so clunky that we were both glad for 8th ed. So in my opinion (Without experiencing 4th ed or earlier) 8th ed is currently my favourite edition for the rules (Although 5th ed was a very close second). I do agree with you entirely Macca about the lore, its just grimderp left, right and centre now, the darkness has gone, the struggle is not a struggle anymore, suddenly there is a light at the end of the tunnel and its getting brighter, it just doesn't feel the same and the lore is not as enjoyable. LOVING Horus Heresy lore, that is really spot on and it just gets darker and darker, it just a shame I'm not a fan of the rules. There's my piece :)

[@chrismario6371]

The imperium is just the german army in ww2 jets fighters and icbms n shit, but yet they still used millions of horse on the front line, couldn’t even feed their army or properly equip it.

[@worldlylexicon671]

The stagnation of the imperium pre-dates the Horace Heresy.

[@skepticalsnek9989]

Macca, could you do a comparison between Belisarius Cawl and Adept Korial Zeth from M31? Zeth was considered an apostate tinkerer and dangerous free-thinker, but was also unassailable until the Heresy because of her political influence and military backing. I would be interested to see an analysis of the comparisons between the two.

[@cadmas]

30K Marines: Literal walls of galaxy conquering indomitable metal that walk in phalanx Primaris Marines: Bigger and stronger than their 30k brothers, Call of duty black ops

[@bliblivion]

"Camouflage is the color of fear. My colors I wear openly. They proclaim I am proud to live, I am proud to die." Carab Culln, Red Scorpions Chapter of space marines.

[@cloaker2829]

well he is stupid,

[@R17inator]

The grav chutes and boots on Vanguard Primaris (including Primaris Reavers) are stupid because they supposedly drop straight from *low orbit* (exact words in their official rules, not mine). GW doesn't realize how high low orbit actually is, it is well beyond the atmosphere. I don't care what they say, I don't care if Marines are augmented or wearing a helmet or not, because reality will not, the burning in atmosphere and extreme g-forces are killing them.

[@worldwar1flyingace645]

Primaris Marines are turning Astartes into Tau.

[@johnbruce4004]

Good thoughts Macca, thanks. Couple of points: I seem to remember in the original (?) Badab War illustrations the SM had tactically painted (I simplify) armour. Could have revisited that along with the Camoline (??) cloak which could have had gillie style outline and netting on helmet for fun. The armour for these Primaris Marines looks like an Ork Mekboy did it. 10,000 years to get it right. Still look like shorts and peter pan boots. Agree about gun sight surly that's in the helmet! Had a long technical exchange with someone about bullpup and fire and forget ammo which we have now. Even allowing considerable technical backslide that would be Plant Defence Force stuff. Rifle not necessarily shorter depends on ammo for performance: if the rounds are mini guided rockets then something like a UGL or M79 would be fine. Interestingly the USMC are gashing the M4 carbine in favour of longer barrelled (and heaver and more accurate - with today's propellants) M27 - based on H&K416. 100% agree that expanding your made up universe is fine but for physics restrained races within those parameters please. Make it more interesting taking canon and expanding not ripping it up and wiping their rear with it (then using that to print new codex on). Loved third and eighth too.

[@Daisyandtheo]

It's been a long time since GW released something that didn't make me sigh.

[@Alex-yg5uh]

Lol...just lol, the only good primaris models imo are the intercessors. Now with ever new release they seem to be getting more and more ridiculous.

[@billdoor1569]

Shape, shine, Silhouette, spacing and shadow, as you said it clearly shows why these "stealth" primaris are bloody stupid. You can add skyline and movement to that too.

[@T3CH33]

The sniper ones are almost right, a cleanup of extraneous shit, and a camo paint job would go along way to fixing most of the issues with the vanguard. But the suppressors are stupid minis.

[@sevlow4035]

The thing with the wolves's ship is that it has a bunch of grav playing on the front so if it was to be used I would have thought that it would be a low flying skimmer type wich makes sense as a member of the rout feels safer the closer they are to the ground

[@JC-jo9bf]

Primaris suck. Let all the kiddies buy them. GW finally killed space marines for me. I am cutting all Primaris stupidity out of my "head canon".

[@christophhofland8890]

started playing in the wonderful 4th edition. it really was a great time. that said, i can live happily ever after never having to pull out a flamer/blast/ordinance template ever again.

[@knightdrako]

Here you go Chaos Marines, you have a new auto cannon marine model. Here you go Primaris Marines, you have a new auto cannon marine model with jump packs!

[@andtheinternettkills]

Macca, your channel should come with a warning of high sodium content. I fucking love it.

[@TheOuterCircle]

More like a high dose of common sense, I don't think it's particularly salty to point out the reality of things.

[@ChainsawDunDeez]

As a Noise Player..who plans to convert and kit bash this box set...those 'dorky' flying Auto cannon Prime-ass Marines..will be converted to ground pounding Blast Master noise marines..

[@Bulumbu]

When it comes to Belasarious Cawl I just suspend my disbelief. The lore exists to sell miniatures. Mini-marines are equally goofy in their own way.

[@pupp993]

Not an excuse. GW has written good lore in the past and the majority of fans are invested in it. Sure it exists to sell minis but its bad PR to phone it in and its bad optics to treat your late teen to adult base like young children.

[@Bulumbu]

@@pupp993 I didn't say it was an excuse. I just need to suspend my belief in different ways. I normally agree with The Outer Circle but this one felt like reaching. From a 30k player it makes sense. But that's a minority if the playerbase.

[@TheSatyrblue]

Bwahaha... Damn, that was dead on. There is a reason my scouts clothes are painted in camo patterns. Welcome to the profit before the game. Even during a pandemic when people are locked down and losing their jobs the prices keep rising. There are multiple things that really turn me off to the Warhammer business model. However it's the lore that keeps me coming back.

[@markfreeman4727]

I like Primaris but I have to agree that most of whats being done with them is stupid from a variety of view points

[@iangraven8948]

FYI the longer the barrel the faster the faster the bullet/ the more stopping power the bullet has. Shorter is only better for agility/ recoil reasons.

[@lucianaurelius2418]

I don’t like the look of the suppressors definitely, but was their any new primaris unit at all that you didn’t hate

[@rymonkey007]

Ahah he’s right about the tape didn’t even think of that, was too preoccupied with the bright blue target. One thing to remember is that this is 40k. I believe they have a “stealth field” so they literally become completely translucent

[@Jcaeser187]

I'm gonna buy the chaos half on ebay and get a recast of the psyker smurf

[@ARandomPerson66]

Are you really going to find a recast so fast though?

[@Visigoth_]

Smokeless gunpowder was the last major invention when it comes to firearms... *JUST SAYING* 🤘😃 🇺🇸

[@marcuslee8274]

We should have seen the signs, I knew something was up when we went to bigger bases. but I being a rouge trader elder am happy with the new models. yes some are and always will be goofy looking but it's always been that way. But the quality is far superior to my first and second gw model sets, being more of a painter than a player nowadays the quality is something I'm happy with. As for the fluff? well what can I say.. I think some questions are better unanswered. better yo wonder what if than to know. As for the rules? if they came out with the perfect system then they couldn't sell us a update right? :)

[@ambushbob5383]

Same reason they did end times in fantasy it's about what they can keep copyrights on primaius marine is easyer to keep out of public domain than space marine.

[@rod.h8064]

Hmm, yeah gravpacks and large gun doesn't work, it'd be different if they were using the Inceptor jump pack. My potential fix for that is just use a proper jump pack but it looks like the ammo supply for the gun is part of the grav pack, conversion time!

[@Dead7Zaku]

Is there a video where you critiqued the scouts? I remember there was one scout holding a scope and you said he lost his zero. I'm having a hard time finding that video. If someone could link that I'd really appreciate it.

[@Newjourney14]

i love 3rd ed. i still have the book and would love to keep playing it.

[@samuelalhyjeeden53]

I'm completely new and started in 8th edition and around the target demographic for primaris. Even I think the stealth primaris look weird, I plan to buy shadowspear but I'm buying for chaos so I can start my Alpha Legion army, the chaos army is wicked.

[@danwilkinson5239]

Obliterators squads are 3 they give you 2 in the set... f...tards so now I need to buy 3 boxes to just get 2 units of obliterators? I quite after 3rd ed started again in 7th with 30k... kinda wish I hadn’t jumped back into the 40k rabbit hole sometimes

[@ARandomPerson66]

Unless the matched play is updated for these updated sheets and you'll be able to field them with only 2 models, have hope, don't jump the gun just yet!

[@janp5063]

I bought 3 Boxes for 325$ at a Online Store. Iam selling the Minis i dont need easy for 200$ on ebay within a day and got 2 playable armys for 125$ and a walk to the post office. Yeah 40k is terrible ans so expensive /s

[@danwilkinson5239]

@@janp5063 which online store has them that cheap? thats insane

[@janp5063]

Wayland its a UK Online Store that sell GW stuff very cheap. I dont know if they now ship to the US. But they got great prices 30% cheaper as the GW Page most of the time. @@danwilkinson5239

[@danwilkinson5239]

@@janp5063 is that 325 USD? it was $162 AUD each for australia i ordered one from them the payment went through not sure if they will ship it to australia though waiting to hear from them

[@Bulumbu]

I'm surprised you didn't mention that it's redundant for boltguns to use cartridges at all. The sculptors clearly don't understand how these things work.

[@krinkrin5982]

The orks will happily fight each other. They are the only faction in 40k that can win in the end. Because they do not care about anything. All they want is to have a good fight, be it with plasma weapons and starships, flintlocks, giant axes, bones and rocks, or their own fists.

[@joevines3428]

Where did you read this?

[@krinkrin5982]

@@joevines3428 The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn. And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude. - Uthan the Perverse, Eldar Philosopher

[@lokenontherange]

40K is 99.99999% sci-fi. It's only because GW only cares about focusing on the super duper rare shit that it appears otherwise. If you lived in 40K chances are you'd a) have a fucking boring ass life or b) have a shittier version of that boring life. You're more likely to end up stuck on a mining colony for the rest of your life than you are to ever come across any of the more fantastical elements in 40K.

[@SebastienBlaueCookieFan]

did you not read the part about their armour having chamaleon like properties? I guess is changes to a less "hit me" colour scheme when needed. Plus...I mean, just paint them mimetic :)

[@Panzergraf]

If it's released after 2005 or so, and not by Forgeworld, then it's probably dumb.

[@blessedpeas]

This does capture many of my thoughts regarding Primaris. It's not that the models themselves are objectively bad, they are not, they are great sculpts. However, they are more sci-fi than they are warhammer 40k, and that's a problem for many who like 40k for being grimdark, not simply a blase stroke of the sci-fi brush and 'that looks cool' across the 40k hobby. There's plenty of cool sci-fi models out there, although I would argue this is truly the domain of video games which are able to do this much much better than a miniature could - think of the Mass Effect trilogy. ME is a sci-fi masterpiece, but conceptually a complete different end of the sci-fi spectrum to 40k. I want that to remain the case (not that that'll matter). Basically, Primaris lore onwards ruins the 40k story for me. Yes, Primaris and Cawl are progression of the 4th/5th edition lore, but I think it is progression in the wrong direction (it is not a regression of the lore as that would imply lore we've seen before e.g. giving Space Marines access to shuriken weapons like in 2nd ed.). I've expressed such thoughts on reddit, but clearly I'm outspoken since replies have basically said that I'm wrong for not liking Primaris as an entity, and that the lore for Primaris and Cawl is great. In my mind, I see 40k as more that of 'blanchitsu', a term that gets thrown around a lot these days, but really John Blanche's artwork has informed much of the direction of the hobby between 3rd and I guess 6th/7th ed. Interestingly the first (and only) rulebook I got new was 5th ed. but I have 'absorbed' much of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 7th ed. lore. I like Space Marines, for how much longer I don't know, I guess until Primaris completely dominate the product line and therefore lore. But overall I think this explains my general shift to being more interested in 30k lore as oppose to 40k itself now, even if the only games I get o play are 40k's Killteam which I think is great by the way (ironically is Killteam a bit like rogue trader/1st/2nd ed. in terms of the size of the armies you're using??)

[@nicholasbreecher9315]

An ariel heavy weapon makes no sense... 1) they look like they suffer control issues by their stances 2) these are by definition the heaviest recoil weapons they can carry 3) the fuel consumption by the excess weight makes it instantly an suboptimal choice 4) weapon systems like these arent meant to be highly mobile, as distance provides them advantages 5) why would a commander presumably remove jetpacks from melee forces and specialists for CQB for these?

[@saunba6007]

Quite a good vid, but i'm pretty sure your wrong with the gun length. The modern 'smaller' guns, as far as i know only works with completly new designed ammo (H&K MP7 for example with it's 7mm cal or st along the line, which technically isn't even a rifle) or by that bullpop design were the barrel stays the same length or even gets longer by using almost the hole gun length for it with shooting mechanism and magazin in the back of the gun. So to improve accuraccy and long-shot abilities of boltguns in wh40k belisarius had to either go bullpop Bolter or get a longer barrel for them. the second he did, so this is one of the very few things that aren't complete bs.

[@MrChaosRock]

here we can see macca slowly becoming c. gamza xD

[@Visigoth_]

I wonder where 9th edition falls on that scale?

[@mattvandart9055]

which edition does the 3.5 chaos codex line up with?

[@TheKahiron]

I feel like the problem with recent editions is that most complexity changes are, in a sense, in the wrong place. Fun mechanics being dumbed down, and focus being turned towards listbuilding. Current rule set seem to me to skew it towards a game of listbuilding over tabletop decisions.

[@Okutox]

Spiritual liege gulliman shows up and we're all of a sudden surprised the grim dark is getting a little brighter?

[@ravener96]

Could have been a step further down shit creek. A hero returns, but is helpless to change the course of the empire, unwilling but forced to serve like the rest at the end of the beurocrats leash.

[@dmstretch6634]

To be honest I've gone off 40K completely now, just not enjoying it.

[@jeradwood8964]

Brilliant, Macca!! (*👾✴ "MAC: Clear-The-Area, No-Traces, Get-The-Men-Ready To MOOVE") _("How Do I Get Out Of _*_This🐔💩Outfit!?!?")_*

[@STzim]

Never ending warfare against uncountable numbers of diffrent enemies IS happiness for the Orks. In a way the Orks already are in their paradise. Heck, maybe they've already won. Of course they could fight amongst themselves without the other races. But it's more 'fun' with the other races arround(diffrent flavours of fighting), on an even ground(long brutal fights instead of quick ones).

[@SockPupet]

Only played 1st 2nd and 3rd, hated 3rd, stopped there, so cannot really comment beyond. I don't know how you can consider 2nd more complex than 1st though. However I also think that they have lost a lot of character since 1st... Also i played squats, and I am still angry about it.

[@Sephvion]

I’m like 10 minutes in and I do agree. But I’m still buying it. Slicing off all the dangly bits.

[@ashlevrier]

You think this is frustrating check out what's happening to Star Trek in the Star Trek fans

[@TheOuterCircle]

Sadly I'm a Trek fan. Favourite Episode is TNG Darmok, compare that to Discovery....

[@jamesbigglesworth4677]

It is a toy solder game, it is all about selling more toy soldiers. They will sell out the fluff to sell a new model. They will deny it was ever that way, if it suits them. The people who wrote all this have left (sacked, not had their contract renewed or got sick of GW and went). The people who replaced them are wanting to make themselves look good by having cool yet contradictory fluff. So who are the foolish ones, them or the ppl who keep putting up with them and their products?

[@kevinmerrifield4767]

"In the grim derpness of the 41st millennial there is only whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?"