TULSI GABBARD on CATHOLIC Persecution during Senate Hearing PLUS Kash Patel and Sen. Josh Hawley

[@DrTaylorMarshall]

nsti.com/checkout/?rid=pJNK69 Click to receive your $1 jump start at New Saint Thomas Institute for your Catholic Bible in a Year, Catholic Bible Cheat Sheet, and Catholic Lifetime Reading List and 10 Catholic Courses from Dr. Taylor Marshall on Catholic Bible, Catholic Philosophy, Latin Mass, Church Fathers, Mariology and more. acornsearly.com/DTM - Get your first month free when you sign up today! 🏠 realestateforlife.org/ Real Estate for Life: (and select "Dr. Taylor Marshall Show")

[@MrAquinas1]

Sure, give a compelling protest against anti-Catholic bigotry and bolster it by agreeing with the blatant anti-Semitic bigotry of your listeners. This will help dispel the misgivings the general public has towards traditionalists.

[@ghosty426]

Re: Who sicked the weaponized FBI on the Trad Catholics? Probably the SPLC, LGBTQ Groups including NAMBLA. This wasn't a skin color or nation of origin issue . The Homosexuals and Homosexualists within the PF Novos Odo Church are livid against Trad Catholics because they don't tolerate feminism or the Liturgical Abuses you've shown on your channel.

[@ghosty426]

​@@MrAquinas1 We obviously don't care what the general public thinks of us or was brainwashed to believe by their mainstream media outlets. If we really cared, we'd be Novos Odo Catholics and celebrating the Kumbuya Rainbow 🌈 Mass or Fr Bob's Guitar Rock n Roll Mass for beginners .

[@lorih9182]

Be thankful you can access a traditional Mass. Most of us cannot. This needs to change.

[@SaintlySaavy]

I understand the desire for wider access to the TLM, but let’s be honest-before Vatican II, most Catholics only had access to rushed Low Masses, often with little participation. The Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, sought to deepen our engagement with the Eucharist, not diminish it. Do we trust Christ’s promise to be with His Church? If we believe in transubstantiation, our focus should be on reverence and unity, not just form. Let’s remove the rose-tinted glasses and trust in the Magisterium’s guidance."

[@PSC9634]

The N.O. mass and the TLM I grew up with are night and day different. In TLM, I genuinely feel God's presence.

[@SaintlySaavy]

​@@PSC9634 I understand the reverence and beauty of the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM)-our liturgy matters. But is our faith based on how we feel, or on Christ’s promise? I’ve attended Mass with just a few people in a tiny back room at a Newman Center. There was no choir, no incense, but Christ was there. I felt His presence not because of grandeur but because I had faith in His promise. History Proves What Really Matters - St. Maximilian Kolbe (Auschwitz, 1940s)-Offered Mass in a Nazi death camp with smuggled bread and wine. - Cristeros (Mexico, 1920s)-Risked death to attend Mass in secret homes and caves. - Chinese Underground Church (Today)-Celebrates whispered Masses under constant threat of arrest.

[@EHDROCK]

But we need to show up and pray with REAL PREIST NOT IMPOSTERS LAUGHING AS US AS THEY WEAR OUR FROCKS AND THEN SUPPORT HOMOSEXUALITY AND TRANSGENDER CHILDREN. Forgive my caps, but ya can't blame me.

[@ghosty426]

It's not merely the Traditional Holy Mass. The new face to face confessions with the Priest should be abolished too

[@nancypelletier5590]

Latin Mass has all the original prayers of the Mass

[@SaintlySaavy]

The Latin Mass preserves many ancient prayers, but it’s not entirely correct to say it has ‘all the original prayers of the Mass.’ The liturgy has developed over centuries, and the earliest Masses looked quite different from what we now call the TLM. For example:** The Roman Canon (Eucharistic Prayer I) dates back to at least the 4th century but wasn’t universally standardized until later. The Kyrie (“Lord, have mercy”) was originally in Greek, reflecting the earliest liturgies. The Last Gospel (John 1:1-14), often seen as a hallmark of the TLM, wasn’t part of the original Mass but was added in the late Middle Ages. The Prayers at the Foot of the Altar (Judica Me, Psalm 42) were added to the Roman Rite only in the 11th century. The Offertory prayers in the TLM were late medieval additions and were not part of the earliest Masses. The earliest Masses in the Apostolic era were celebrated in Aramaic and Greek, not Latin, and they followed structures similar to Jewish temple worship. The Latin liturgy as we know it wasn’t fully developed until centuries later. What truly makes a Mass valid isn’t the exact prayers used, but Christ’s institution of the Eucharistic Sacrifice. Whether in Latin, Greek, or the vernacular, every valid Mass contains the essential elements: the Words of Institution, the offering of the Sacrifice, and Christ’s Real Presence. Rather than focusing on nostalgia, shouldn’t our priority be faithfulness to Christ and trust in the Church’s guidance?

[@ROCOROrthoboi]

Yeh yeh defend Novus Ordo all you want. TLM is the reason why my 75yr. old protestant converted friend to Roman Catholicism. 10 of my protestant friends, all senior citizens and cradle protestants, converted to Roman Catholicism. Novus Ordo did not convince them about Roman Catholicism, only TLM did that ​@@SaintlySaavy

[@ghosty426]

@@SaintlySaavy I definitely don't trust in this Pope's guidance about spiritual issues, the Pachamama, LGBTQ rights issues or his medical advice on mRNA vaccines or any other medical issues. He doesn't have MD after his proper name.

[@Miriam-wn5vg]

May God always bless Senator J. Hawley, a true champion!

[@ghosty426]

Please keep President Trump and all his supporters in your prayers as well as our key republican politicians like MTG, Clay Higgins, Jimmy JJ Johnson, Sen Josh Hawley, (Sen Fetterman (d) of PA seems like he's going to flip republican) Pray against all RINOs, especially Mitch McConnell etc.

[@cecedubois5147]

When I started first grade, all the way through eighth grade, every school day started with the Latin Mass. I cannot express to you how much I miss it. 😢🙏

[@mariamartin94]

Same here

[@charlesdoca7145]

I live in God forsaken San Francisco, California. I would love to move, but being in my 60s and on social security I just can't afford to. BTW, I love praying the Rosary every day. Also, I'm not Catholic, but I am looking to convert.

[@GeorgeWilkie-x4g]

Charles, Thank You so very much for Your inspiring Comment.

[@charlesdoca7145]

@GeorgeWilkie-x4g thank you George!

[@ghosty426]

PS. If you really want to convert to Catholicism, read about Saint Pio of Petrelacina (Padre Pio) In 2002, I experienced the death of my Immortal Beloved from High School. I could do nothing for her but pray the Rosary and eventually offer Holy Masses (Gregorian) for the benefit of her Soul . I kept asking St Pio (Bl Padre Pio) at the time to intercede for her soul as well. I was blessed with a grace by experiencing a dream visit from her approx 40 days after she died on her birthday. And so, that intercession and grace, brought me back to Church and the confessional for the last 23 years or so of my life. You can't lose with Padre Pio in your corner.

[@TinaPassi-d1e]

Amen Sen. Josh Hawley & Tulsi Gabbard. God Bless & Stay Blessed😊❤❤❤

[@jacquiewright1848]

I love Latin mass and I miss it , Satanic hates Latin mass It's a real Traditional More holy and reverence to adore our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ God bless you Dr Marshall 🙏😇pray so we can bring back the Traditional mass

[@SaintlySaavy]

I understand your love for the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM)-it is a beautiful and reverent liturgy. But we must be careful not to judge the holiness of the Mass by external factors alone-or we risk Donatism, the error of thinking the Mass is only valid or worthy based on how it looks or feels. Satan hates the Eucharist, period-not just the TLM. Every valid Mass makes Christ truly present, whether in Latin, Greek, or the vernacular. Many saints attended Mass in Aramaic, Syriac, or Greek-were their Masses less holy? If holiness depended only on the rite, what about Eastern Catholics who never used Latin? The TLM is not the only traditional Mass-the Church has always had multiple ancient rites (Byzantine, Ambrosian, Maronite, Mozarabic). Latin alone does not make a Mass more reverent or powerful-Christ does. Yes, the TLM fosters reverence, but reverence is not exclusive to Latin. A rushed or inattentive TLM still contains Christ, just as a deeply reverent Novus Ordo does. St. Maximilian Kolbe celebrated Mass in a Nazi death camp using smuggled bread and wine-no incense, no chant, no Latin. Was Christ any less present?

[@ghosty426]

​@@SaintlySaavy Hopefully not. But even the bread used for the Mass has strict guidelines .

[@carlosmurillo2264]

@@SaintlySaavyyou know what she meant. KEEP THE ROMAN RITE LATIN AND THE BYZANTINE RITE GREEK!!! does that make you happy

[@bucklr11]

We’ve always been persecuted as Catholics …. who gave the order for this one though? …..🤔 The truth always comes out …..🧐

[@Jack-ez5rl]

The Popes have done a lot of persecuting historically. Guess it's what goes around comes back around...

[@bucklr11]

@@Jack-ez5rlno they haven’t - and we’d all have been Muslim if it wasn’t for Pope Pius V arranging the Holy League so get your facts right and go link up the Battle of Lepanto

[@Individualati]

I wonder if Bergoglio asked them to do it.

[@bucklr11]

@@Individualati tbf to him he doesn’t need to as he knows what the Latin Mass is about - plastic Catholic sleepy joe on the other hand …… 🧐

[@lorettadsouza2138]

Thank you Sen. Josh Hawley

[@betterstill100]

I live in Missouri, this is my senator. I am Catholic. I love traditional Latin mass. I love Kash Patel. I love Taylor Marshall.

[@paulaadams4791]

Also my senator! I go to Mass with Benedictines of Mary.

[@tomchaperon1081]

That's great Paula I donate to those Nuns.God bless you🙌💗

[@aboydsto]

Our priest is not doing the Latin Mass, but he is incorporating it. He faces the crucifix and has mobile kneelers for those of us who want to kneel for communion. I feel he would do the Latin Mass if he could.

[@princessdumbarton9877]

Why doesn't someone just translate the Latin Mass for the public, put it out there, and people can see what is being said. It's no secret. The missal has the English translation right along with it. I can't believe anyone would object if they read it.

[@alicehand6910]

Amen! I too really appreciate and admire Josh Hawley for exposing this horrific memo regarding Catholics attending the Traditional Catholic Mass! This memo attacks the First Amendment! Thank you Senator Hawley!! I’m glad I live in Missouri and you are my Senator !🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@galetuaoi1]

AMEN AMEN THANK YOU SENATOR

[@favin86]

Love Tulsi.

[@scrimshawrose3236]

I'm not catholic but I enjoy listening to the Latin traditional Mass, I also love Gregorian Chant. Americans need to defend religious freedom, not persecute those who practice their faith.

[@DaphneRey1]

Very well said!!! 👍🏻🇺🇸💖💖💖💖

[@kathrynlorton5934]

I would love to be able to attend Latin Mass again.. I'm 82 and there's not one near me..jmj.

[@lloydbraun6026]

I was lucky to find one 25 minutes from my home, it is is Roswell GA. Search online or let me know where you live and I’ll research for you.

[@GeorgeWilkie-x4g]

AMEN! SEN.HOLLY IS, "THE MAN!" MY HEARTFELT THANK YOU TO THE COURAGEOUS SENATOR!

[@robinbrown328]

Thank you Mr. Cash Patel.🎉

[@ghosty426]

"KASH"

[@lloydbraun6026]

Kash is short for his pagan Hindu name.

[@daphnen5296]

What a great video.

[@marriedkiwi]

It would not surprise me if the memo has its origin in the great wrecking ball from Buenos Aries

[@harvestingnow1571]

Yep. Pope is A GLOBALIST And BIDEN is too. They’re Best Buds!! 🥺🙏🇺🇸 🌎

[@kingpatriarch224]

It fascinates me that Tulsi is an orthodox Hindu (Hare Krishna) and staunchly advocates for Roman Catholics. Kash Patel's parents are Hindu. We must pray for them both and thank God they will protect our freedoms.

[@ekrewer]

Some of the best friends Catholics have nowadays aren't Catholic

[@fiditenemini2452]

Her father is a practicing Catholic

[@jmcallion2071]

Tulsi and pastel need to drop their pagan demons and become Catholic

[@bottlethrower1544]

This is the perspective I was looking for. Subbed!

[@cecedubois5147]

You'll be glad you did. Dr Marshall is great.

[@marionmeadows2884]

Amen and Amen! I give to my church’s building maintenance fund, hoping that is where it goes.

[@jeaniemayor249]

We have a beautiful English Ad Orientum Mass with 18 altar boys in procession with full choir/instruments singing Bach and Mozart.

[@JP4view]

Tulsi, How unfortunate and extreme prejudice to learn that you were 3:52 placed on a “No Fly” watch list because you 3:52 attend a RC Latin mass which is beautiful and sacred. As a fellow US Army LTC, I pray that you ARE CONFIRMED. Stay the course. JG

[@zebblensheick8694]

Pretty cool. My family and I, also Catholic, have 8 children as well ranging from 4-17 years old... Never a dull moment! We too have a passenger van (15 seater), it's a must!

[@marymurray9351]

8 children, one might not have the budget for a 15 seater, but still have the generosity AND good Catholic hearts following the Church's teaching......that'd be my parents. Grew up with 8 kids...FUN!!!

[@patriciacoleman9985]

Josh Hawley is a Roman Catholic, he said it himself.

[@anniethompson1041]

Josh Hawley my hero. Amen

[@ML-vz9oz]

Please pray for this administration.

[@DaphneRey1]

Amen!🙏🏻🙏🏻❤🇺🇸

[@josolano8345]

That's a good news...I loved TLM the only Mass that feels sacred!

[@akjaydub6620]

I believe Tulsi might be Hindu.

[@fiditenemini2452]

Her father is a practicing Catholic

[@brattyyoung1917]

It will take alot for me to trust the FBI/CIA/DOJ again....

[@MikeCostello-k8x]

Light being shined

[@margaretsandbak5032]

I am not a catholic but respect it. I am conservative Methodist.

[@hiddenhand6973]

Well hey, good to see ya! Stick around 🥰

[@EMC726]

I’ve only had the gift of being part of Latin Mass only in the 1960’s as a child, then once in 2024 - it was beautiful, but now is terminal here in Des Moines, Ia.

[@ronedee]

A little bit of Justice! Thank you, Lord Jesus…. “Bless those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied.” Amen

[@lourdesmenezes4974]

Amen.

[@MichaelJames-i8e]

Amen to that!

[@EHDROCK]

Josh Hawley is an amazing patriot of his country. So are all of Trump's picks, I pray every day the horrors will leave America and our Retail and our standards of excellence will return and NYC will be NYC again.

[@cecedubois5147]

Dominus vobiscum is a good one, doc!

[@BettyMensch]

I remember the Latin mass growing up. Then it changed Love both.

[@marionmeadows2884]

Anyone here ever been helped by Catholic charities or the bishops’ relief funds??

[@tam65-u3f]

Hope Tulsi , Kash Patel , President Trump will convert to Catholicism

[@kimmiranda7486]

Amen 🙏

[@nellotesan9233]

❤ what a bright light shines like a star 🌟

[@caedanjennings]

Love Josh Hawley! I’ve seen him rip into the fbi and it was amazing. Pray for his and Tulsi Gabbard to convert to Catholicism! God bless them!

[@debrasaints3809]

Taylor, Flying Tigers is Rob Morrow. He’s writing a book about Malachi Martin and wrote the sequel to A Christmas Carol. He’s an ex CIA I believe and is an awesome person. He was probably targeted by the Feds because of his past work. You should have him on the show! God bless you! Ave Maria!

[@betterstill100]

Amen

[@TinaPassi-d1e]

Very TRUE Dr. Marshall that's exactly why I don't really donate for the church but only for my parish church only if it's appropriate. Hopefully Pope Francis & those other bishops dont turn on to the Catholic schools & raise their fees etc.... Dr. Marshall I don't pray for the "popes intention" like they asked us Catholics to pray for during the Mass & all the Rosaries pray on the media/ everywhere but, I preferred "for his protection & guidance" because I don't want to be 'mislead'.

[@margaretmurti6845]

Amen Amen n Amen

[@frankbessette3463]

amen

[@kittiesbytheseamalloryscastle]

✨️🕊🕯🙏

[@Anchoress1]

@4:18 “ what is meant by the breaking of the host and putting it in the chalice”. I have not seen Father put it in the chalice, but on the paten

[@mariagratiaplena2000]

Great

[@sanjivjhangiani3243]

I'm glad we won't have more of these FBI agents at the TLM. It makes it too crowded when you attend it on Sunday. 😊

[@anneangel3297]

The USA needs to speak about the persecution in Nigeria etc - China - Middle East

[@nikko8805]

I'd like to know the timing of Biden going to meet bergolio in the Vatican and the FBI investigating the TLM had 2 agents one Sunday at my parish

[@theresat7065]

Donate to Hawley, Cruz, Clyde, Lee, and many other conservative representatives, but watch out RINOs.

[@PioAndrew]

Ask suspicious people about their love of our Lord Jesus Christ and our Blessed Mother

[@janettedavis6627]

It wasn't Traditional Latin Mass or Extaordinary Mass when I was a youngster inthe Roman Catholic Church. It was Christ's Mass. What Prayers were said in the Temple in Jerusalem over the Symbolic Paschal Lamb Sacrifice? They are in the Tridentine Latin Mass.

[@michellestansberry9101]

Could it be the Vatican?

[@MaxGillette]

Who was behind the persecutions? Well I bet you they all belong to the same ethnic group.

[@nancypelletier5590]

Love Cash Patel.I 18:37 Listen to his pod cast.He is a very smart man.

[@karijonassen6574]

TRADITIONAL Latin Mass, like the Greek Orthodox Christianity ancient Greek, and Bhuddists in Sanskrit, Islam in Arabic and Hindu temples OFTEN Sanskrit. Classic languages avoid bias against tradition and give holy mystery.😊

[@soniaowen806]

Amem

[@alexwalker3422]

@DrTaylorMarshall - you've been critical of Tulsi in the past. Can you please speak to that more in a future video of why you think we should trust her now

[@vickiebott9326]

I am 76 years old and was Baptized and raised a Catholic. I went to Catholic schools for 12 years! I grew up with the Traditional Latin Mass and I loved it!! I am from a large Catholic family as is my husband. I don’t go to Mass much any more because I don’t feel like I am actually at Mass! There is no Traditional Latin Mass close to where I live which is a small Texas town. I would be so excited for the Traditional Mass to be said in all Catholic Churches again instead of what the clergy and those who head the Catholic Church call Mass!

[@SaintlySaavy]

I understand your love for the Traditional Latin Mass -a beautiful and sacred part of our Catholic heritage. But I must ask: Is our faith based on the form of the Mass or on Christ’s Real Presence in the Eucharist? Right now, Catholics in China risk arrest to attend even the simplest Mass. In history, Catholics have crawled through mud, huddled in caves, and died rather than be separated from the Eucharist. Japanese Catholics (17th-19th centuries)-Kept the faith for 250 years without priests or public Masses, baptizing their children in secret. St. Maximilian Kolbe (Auschwitz, 1940s)-Celebrated Mass in a Nazi death camp using smuggled bread and wine-no Latin, no incense, no organ, just Christ. Cristeros (Mexico, 1920s)-Risked execution to attend Mass in secret homes and caves while priests were hunted down. Chinese Catholics (Today)-Whisper Masses in underground churches to avoid arrest and imprisonment. Would they refuse the Mass because it wasn’t in Latin? I say this not to diminish your experience but to challenge you to see the bigger picture. The Church needs faithful Catholics in the pews, praying for reverence and not staying home in protest. The saints didn’t wait for the “perfect Mass” to worship-they gave everything to attend any valid Mass. "This is my Body, this is my Blood." (Matthew 26:26-28) Would we crawl through the mud for Christ?

[@mskimy1125]

It may not "feel" like mass to you...but Jesus is there! Go for him ❤

[@SaintlySaavy]

@@mskimy1125 Amen! During the Communist persecution in China, soldiers stormed a Catholic church, desecrated the tabernacle, and scattered 32 consecrated hosts on the floor. An 11-year-old girl, witnessing the sacrilege, snuck into the church each night for 32 nights, consuming one Host at a time with her tongue in reverence. On the final night, she was caught and beaten to death by the guards. Archbishop Fulton Sheen often recounted her story as a powerful testament to Eucharistic devotion, reminding us that true faith is about Christ’s Presence, not personal preference in liturgy.

[@theresat7065]

I donate to Hawly!

[@Templar-u9k]

Read the “Jesuit Oath”

[@valeriekesterson3376]

My cancer doctor (I have had 3 cancers & died for 37 minutes & they bought me back to life) not to take the shot because it would probably kill me and I had Covic early off so I already had natural immunity ! But I am. Home bound anyway so I didn't get around anyone. When I did get it I got it at the hospital.

[@valeriekesterson3376]

Amen

[@lillyc563]

The church I go to (Catholic) is very liberal.

[@anonymouscrank]

Gabbard, Hawley, Patel may not be Catholic...but they soon will be!

[@nellotesan9233]

😂😂😂they act RIGHTEOUSLY 💒

[@paulaadams4791]

We must all pray for them! It will happen with the help of Our Lady and her Rosary!

[@HeatherMacdonald-d5c]

Can I sign up from UK

[@RepentB4TooLate]

❤

[@harvestingnow1571]

Had to come from 👋Den!! And from the top dog at 🇻🇦🥺🙏

[@waynesheridan9019]

Amen

[@SouthernBlossom]

Ask.."How do you feel about Pachamama?"

[@lynngreen5517]

Amen!

[@DaveZeeThree5]

Anyone else disappointed Taylor doesn't pray anymore at the beginning of his show but has the time to push these ads?

[@sunnyday7843]

I fast fwd thru the ads and yes miss the prayers

[@DaveZeeThree5]

@@sunnyday7843 I fast forward through them as well. It only takes 30 seconds or less to pray the Our Father. He should go back to praying that at the beginning of his show.

[@sunnyday7843]

@ yes

[@hmski]

IS THIS TRUE: Pope Francis Steps Down Cardinal Tagle Takes the Helm

[@randompetsandnuns]

Vance/Hawley 2028! ❤️🇺🇲🤍🇺🇲💙

[@paulaadams4791]

Josh Hawley is a warrior!

[@MoonTyphoon-j4u]

I luv Tulsi, she’s an inspiration.

[@paullanier8280]

A m e n !!!

[@archangelliii2536]

I can barely hear you Doc.

[@SquareNoggin]

Oh I suppose she's the real deal. If I'm being honest, something about Tulsi gives me the heebee jeebees. I just don't trust her, but I can't really articulate a reason for it or justify it in any meaningful way. But for whatever reason she strikes me as inauthentic. I hope I'm wrong, I've been wrong before.

[@ekrewer]

She used to be a Democrat Congresswoman from Hawaii and ran for POTUS in the 2020 Dem primaries. But like RFK Jr. she left the Democrat Party, or I think she actually said it left her (by moving way too far left for her liking, even though she's still fairly liberal).

[@finnhagan7036]

Its been a jewish executive

[@marriedkiwi]

Why am i the only one who comments?

[@lorih9182]

You're not. Go to the top of the comments and click "newest". They're hidden.

[@hamilcarbaraq5186]

Amen!

[@georginamcallum1324]

But they should check the mosques for islam

[@betterstill100]

I cannot afford to purchase a dinner where Kash Patel would go even for myself but I am with him in spirit. I call and text legislators on his behalf.

[@cecilealonso7446]

The pope is involved.

[@MoonTyphoon-j4u]

Whoooa, I wonder if that’ll come out? Probably cover up for them if so.

[@cecilealonso7446]

I like Tulsi

[@mystdragon8530]

So are you all against Vatican 2 changes?

[@carolynkimberly4021]

Yes!

[@MacheteMambi]

Khaki pants ov3rsized sportscoat crew cut. Shades

[@democraticsovereignty1637]

Yeah, changes things at the mass, starts playing Enya as he sits and fantasies, then walks up and down aisle bouncing a basketball as he gives his sermon. That is my local Priest.

[@paulaadams4791]

How awful!

[@pathue1196]

Time to find a different church/parish...

[@SaintlySaavy]

What is your parish? We can test this and report it to the local Bishops office.

[@lindac5468]

I am so sorry! Find another parish run do not walk

[@SaintlySaavy]

I want to add historical context to the discussion on the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM). Some portray the pre-Vatican II era as a golden age while dismissing the Novus Ordo (NO) as inherently inferior. But the actual lived experience of most Catholics challenges this narrative. 1. The Low Mass Was the Norm Not every parish could offer a High Mass-it required multiple clergy, trained servers, and a schola. For most Catholics, Mass meant a rushed, quiet Low Mass with little participation. Fr. Louis Bouyer (1958): “In most parishes, the people’s experience of the Mass was limited to hurried Low Masses where the priest, with his back to the congregation, recited prayers in Latin that the people could neither hear nor understand.” (Eucharist, p. 372) Josef Jungmann, S.J. (1948): “For most of the laity, Low Mass was the standard experience; participation was often passive, with many praying the Rosary rather than engaging with the liturgical action.” (The Mass of the Roman Rite, Vol. II, p. 395) If we strawman the NO as all irreverent, we could just as easily strawman the TLM as rushed, inaudible, and disengaged-because that was the reality for most Catholics before Vatican II. 2. The State of the Laity Before Vatican II The idea that Catholics were universally strong in faith before the Council is not supported by history. Pope Pius X (1903): “The faithful assemble in the church without joining in the sacred action. They are mute spectators rather than active participants.” (Tra le Sollecitudini) Pope Pius XII (1947): “Many of the faithful remain as strangers or silent spectators rather than participating actively.” (Mediator Dei, §105) Concerns about passivity at Mass weren’t invented by Vatican II-they were serious issues long before. 3. Ratzinger on the Weakness of Pre-Vatican II Catholicism Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI) warned that pre-conciliar Catholicism was often externally strong but internally weak. Ratzinger (1966): “Many had been baptized and even went to Mass, but were, in a certain sense, pagan Christians, for whom the faith was more a cultural inheritance than a personal encounter with Christ.” Ratzinger (1999): “Before the Council, the faith was strong externally, but often fragile internally. When external structures changed, the internal weakness was exposed.” The post-Vatican II crisis didn’t create the problem-it revealed it. 4. The “Golden Age” Myth and Our Responsibility We live in a land of “milk and honey” compared to past generations: We have Bibles, Catechisms, and Church documents in our own language. Catholic apologetics is stronger than ever. Faithful Catholics have unprecedented access to formation and community. Instead of acting like spoiled children, looking down on others, we should ask: Are Catholics today truly stronger in faith and knowledge? Are we using these blessings to evangelize and grow in holiness? 5. The Call to Truth, Not Nostalgia Both forms of the Mass have strengths and weaknesses. Just as abuses exist in the NO, problems existed in the way the TLM was often experienced. We need truth, not myths-and charity, not division. If God has blessed us with tradition, knowledge, and resources our ancestors lacked, our duty is to use them for His glory, not to fuel infighting.

[@marriedkiwi]

Why use AI to give garbage? Most here know a renewal might have helped. The NO was forced in and is not a renewal. It's part of a great wrecking ball

[@fload46d]

A lot of your comment is true. However, it must be realized that it was a time of infiltration by modernists and a watering down of things. What was greatly needed was education. One of the greatest weapons that wasn't used was the Ignatian Retreat. It is a powerful tool for instruction and strengthening fervor in the Faith.

[@hiddenhand6973]

55:00 sounds like that’s the traditional Catholics rn