Tune your mandolin WITHOUT a tuning machine!

[@ralfleenen]

If you want to skip the introduction and go immediately to the tuning part, go to 3:25

[@VinodJadavani]

Good

[@luigidambra2523]

Very interesting. Watching the video i was thinking that would be nice to see how you string the instrument, in order to realize a good stability of tuning. For a concertist as you are, it should be a crucial question ... thank you to sharing Ralf 😊

[@ralfleenen]

Yes, you're absolutely right, that is very important and it is also a topic I plan to cover in a video ... I have too many videos in my head, it's difficult to choose which one to record first :-)

[@malitaflorin4842]

@@ralfleenen such long time no new video :) so we can learn somethink

[@channelone3]

The first notes of twinkle twinkle little star are in fifth. Good way to teach children to tune mandolin.

[@ralfleenen]

I knew there was something I forgot to mention! ;-)

[@RobMacKillop1]

Yes, ears are best. But, Ralf, your electronic machine looks antediluvian. We have tuners and apps now which give a whole host of temperaments, and at any pitch you want. You can even programme your own favoured temperament. But I agree that a musician should be able to tune his/her instrument once the pitch of A has been established and agreed upon. I have to say, though, that I have never seen a string quartet leader use a tuning fork to establish A. I must say I like your tuning fork natural amplifier!

[@ralfleenen]

Thanks Rob for the always interesting comments. Just a few thoughts: I know about the programmable tuners with all kinds of temperaments, but they are only useful to the degree that you can also hear the differences. And indeed we can hear the differences, but whoever hears the differences can also learn to tune to that temperament by ear. I do agree that a good tuning machine can make life much easier for harpsichord and lute players! For a mandolin player who has only 3 fifths to tune I'm not convinced though. For chamber music (instruments of the violin family) tuning forks are almost exclusively used back stage, except by those who have perfect pitch and don't need anything. Once on stage everyone copies the A of the leader, whatever it may be. Some even use a tuning machine back stage, but only for the A and never to tune the other strings. Did you know in the early days of the violin, violin players were looked down upon by players of viola da gamba and viola d'amore, which were more the instruments of the rich. One of the reasons was that a violin was considered a "simple" instrument because it had only 4 strings and was so easy to tune that even the lesser musicians could do it. The viola da gambas and similar instruments had more strings tuned in fourths and thirds and were considered more advanced and sophisticated. I hope guitar and lute players won't start to feel superior to mandolin players now :-D

[@RobMacKillop1]

@@ralfleenen If they did, I would have a conflict of interest! :-) By the way, I love the various gambas, and once tried playing the 7-string bass viol, but could never get the bow technique together.

[@sameash3153]

Nah that thing looks based as fuck

[@criaturaimaginaria5230]

I think you're right, you start using it to tune when there are so much noise, but when you realize then you are using it all the time.

[@ralfleenen]

That's right: at first you think it's wonderful to have this tuner, and it is of course a very good invention. But after some time (years) you think "why am I actually using this all the time?" For a mandolin there are only 3 fifths to tune. So easy to do this by ear, and at the same time you keep your ears trained!

[@roiehay7547]

I'm so confused. If I tune the mandolin in perfect fifths with a tuner it doesn't sound good. but if I sharpen the d string and g string which depends on the sharpened d string and tune the e string to a perfect fifths it sounds good?

[@ralfleenen]

Good question and I agree it is confusing! I'm afraid a simple and short answer is not easy to give. I may even make the confusion worse ;-) The intonation of a fretted string instrument is very complex and many possible error factors have to be taken into account: - what system did the mandolin maker use in order to determine the distances between the frets? Did he intend tempered tuning and did he use some kind of compensation? - how accurate are the fret positions on a particular mandolin and are they exactly as intended? - is the mandolin fitted with a straight bridge or a compensated bridge? - if the bridge is compensated, which kind of compensation is used and for what type of strings is it intended? - which type of strings are you using? Even the slightest variation of thickness and tension is going to affect intonation. - what is the string action? A mandolin with low action will intonate differently than a mandolin with high action. - how much finger pressure do you use while playing? High pressure can cause a note to go sharp, I've often heard it, even from excellent players. - ... With all these variable factors, can we simply expect a mandolin to have excellent intonation when we just use a tuning machine? By the way, what kind of tuning is the tuning machine using? They are not all the same, and some are programmable. I've noticed that some tuning machines don't even react to some very small variations in tuning that are quite obvious for the human ear. I've used several tuning machines for many years, and they can certainly be good tools, but I've never been 100% satisfied with the results. We can use machines and calculate as much as we like, even if theoretically and mathematically everything is 100% correct, reality may appear to be quite different. If you tune your mandolin in perfect fifths and you have perfect intonation, by all means don't change anything, that is excellent (and exceptional)! However, if you are not satisfied with the intonation, please try what I suggest in the video and see if it's better. I have made no calculations whatsoever. What I do is purely what I've noticed to work well after many years of experience. In the video I try to give an explanation as to why my method seems to work well on most mandolins. I'm not pretending that my explanation is fully correct, it is only an (incomplete) assumption. In fact, my explanation is of no importance at all. With all the possible error factors mentioned above (and the ones that I overlooked), it would be quite impossible to give an exact calculation and explanation. It is only the musical result that is important for me. Simply said : I don't care much about the exact science behind it. I'm only interested in what works in reality. If the science doesn't support reality, then it is useless to me. I hope this answers your question :-)

[@roiehay7547]

Thank you!

[@bamwu9233]

Sorry for commenting 3 years late, but I don't understand how your violin, tuned to perfect 5ths, and your mandolin, tuned to tempered 5ths, could be played at the same time and still sound in tune with one another. I might be inferring something you weren't intentionally implying, but please elaborate on this. In my mind it only makes sense for all instruments played in concert together to be tuned temperately, but admittedly the concept of tempered tuning is still not very solid in my mind. Also, similarly, aren't most electronic tuners aligned to the tempered scale so that your guitar, for example, will sound in tune with the piano?

[@sandee71]

Good evening Sir , can mandolin be tuned to FCAF , instead of GDAE standard. I read it some forum , but worried tuning E toF , may break string

[@ralfleenen]

I think it is possible but it depends on the strings and the scale length of the mandolin. In order to tune E to F , 0.009inch (or 0,23mm) strings would be better than 0.010inch (or 0,25mm). And for the scale length, 33cm makes for lower tension than 34cm or more. So if your mandolin has 34cm scale and 0,25mm strings, they are more likely to break when tuned up to F. But you can just try, the worst thing that can happen is that a string breaks :-)

[@naomicasas8401]

What if we don’t have a tuning fork?

[@Hauptstufe]

Learn to hold a4 with your voice, without reference.