Tuning earphones with... cables? | "DSP" Explained

[@crin]

For those curious about how some of these DSP IEMs sound, we got some demos at The Hangout! goo.gl/maps/qRhMgtUBZ2FWu6gX9

[@STAYCBias]

Don't need DSP, I alr got my ultimate end game ibasso dc elite for just 480SGD so I skip this shit....😂😂😂😂

[@yanec2501]

God I wish I was not European. This sound like such a nice place to be 😭

[@STAYCBias]

@@yanec2501 , yup! But boring!

[@zafuro]

@@yanec2501got psyopd award

[@anachronismic]

Active noise cancelling also counts as DSP! That's maybe less relevant to this space, but my lil EE heart had to say something.

[@impulse1107]

As an electrical engineering student, this is true, but in this case is using the signal processing to cancel out the noise rather than to change the tuning

[@anachronismic]

@@impulse1107 ye for sure! I'm just being pedantic lmao, in this context people are usually talking about fixed tap filters

[@Daniel-dj7fh]

which is still processing, even if it's not to benefit the noise actively@@impulse1107

[@Daniel-dj7fh]

Yeah, like isn't anything coming out of any device digitally processed? if from the save file to the conversion to the signal to then be converted to mechanical driver movement.@@anachronismic

[@anachronismic]

@@Daniel-dj7fh Audio coming out of a digital file (CD, phone streaming, sonos) does start out digital and will have elements of DSP in the chain, yeah. (Cassette, vinyl, etc don't need DSP in the chain, there's discourse on that that I don't care about lmao). This is why all the people who are super into audio put some focus on DACs (digital anolog converter). In making those chips there's design decisions that affect the sound. Largely in this space though I think people talking about DSP are talking about tuning the audio signal so that it has certain sound properties. That audio signal tuning can be done post-conversion to analog as well, which is where the Discourse comes from.

[@FaizalKuntz]

Thank God DSP is Digital Signal Processing, and not DarkSyidePhill.

[@kbirridia]

I think one important part of this is that "cable" DSP requires a DAC in the unit post-EQ. The audio quality will thus depend on the quality of that DAC-in-the-cable, which may or may not be as good as what's in the device or outboard gear.

[@hilmyakatsuki1665]

Actually the opposite. Most phones dac is not better than even budget dsp cables or DAC. Forget about expensive external DAC.

[@kbirridia]

@@hilmyakatsuki1665 Ehm, that's an interesting observation, but not exactly an opposite opinion. DACs weren't very good for a long time, but I would agree that these days, very good DACs are very affordable, and outboard gear tends to fit in the "spiritual audiophile" realm. That being said, to my point, the quality of a DAC remains an important consideration, because bad DACs still exist and could be used by extreme-budget or, shall we say, logistics-challenged manufacturers.

[@hilmyakatsuki1665]

@@kbirridia some manufacturer making good dac at affordable price for example fiio ja11 which is just like a dongle but the dac is well built. It also has many features built-in

[@TheGeneReyva]

"Who is DSP?" No, don't do it!

[@DannyGraves1775]

KZ x DSP collab incoming in 3, 2....

[@IgorAngelini]

Android's default DSP(EQ): WHY AM I TOXIC?!??!

[@hcho8164]

Deon Sanders Primetime. Currently goes by CP or Coach Prime.

[@rrecar8684]

LightSydeBill

[@brandonchin9873]

I prefer a penne *dramatic snort*

[@memesfromtheforsakenworlwi9218]

how is DSP? that's the question sadly no one asks😢

[@2slowpoke929]

“Who is DSP” I don’t think you wanna know

[@percider]

Tell me, I wanna know

[@SMEARGLEX75]

@@percider A shite Gamer that blames everyone else but himself.

[@balsalmalberto8086]

The sound profile she doesn't tell you about

[@hatsuno8491]

Welcome back! Crin IEMs first impressions when? Haven't seen you throw IEM boxes in a while now

[@EastPlanet]

The outro tag hit especially hard this time lmfao

[@SMEARGLEX75]

I love how the Comments are half praising EQ and other half bringing up the toxicity of DSP Player. kek

[@garychan927]

DSP in studios, home theatre and car audio also align the timing, besides EQing. I believe some multiple drivers IEMs also utilise this function to correct the timing.

[@nikkopt]

You can use DSP to do a lot of things, they are programmable specialized processors that can accelerate certain tasks. In audio they are commonly used to add effects, do FFT and EQ. Google uses the DSP on snapdragon phones to process HDR photos. DSPs are also what was used in cameras to process the data that the ADC read from the sensor. Also used in video processing. DSP isn't EQ, although it can do EQ..

[@ashigarashimo]

I like how ironic and funny is it that I understand your point about DSP being a "fix it in post" joke but going through the digital source files to analog flow, it is more like "fix it at the source" solution.

[@joeaiello6869]

I don't usually comment, but my favorite of your videos is the "F off" at the end. Makes me smile every time. Also love your videos.

[@FourWasHere]

bro was preparing himself for the dusk 3

[@rikkowastaken]

Have a feeling the new dusk will use dsp

[@mehmetgurdal]

It does. To me it's great but I hope it let's us upload our own eq values

[@juanblanco7898]

It will, you can see that on Crin's graph comparison tool. And this video is basically a priming to it's release, I believe.

[@mehmetgurdal]

@@juanblanco7898 I can already feel the presence of salt towards eq haters in his video. :D I hope it uses a powerful dac though, like the one that dawn pro has. And some options to fine tune would be great: like a dedicated software to upload a personalized eq profile to the dsp module.

[@juanblanco7898]

@@mehmetgurdal I don't think there's any chance the DAC implementation will be even close to the Dawn Pro. There's only so much they can do in this form factor, sadly. I just hope that the cable is going to be better than the already existing Moondrop's DSP cables. And yeah, the software better be improved significantly. Currently existing limitations have no place on a $300 product, that's for sure.

[@zerosen4396]

letss goo dusk 3 dsp

[@WalksWithNoFear]

Discovered the 7hz Salnotes Zero about 10 days ago after buying a pair on a whim on Amazon. TWENTY FUCKING DOLLARS and this IEM sounds better than IEM's I've owned that were $150 to $200. Best value IEM (based on the ones I've heard) on the planet. Already have the black, white, MECHA red, and I have the orange and blue on the way. Gotta catch ’em all!

[@peanutjam]

Have you tried the Zero 2? I wonder what you would think.

[@WalksWithNoFear]

@@peanutjam I currently have no interest, at the moment, in trying the Zero 2

[@DannyGraves1775]

@@peanutjam Zero 2's have a bit more substance in the low end (bass isn't as superficial), and less shrill in the 10Khz range, midrange seems about the same, perhaps slightly less sharp of a scoop. While I'm still happy with the originals as a daily driver for my Walkman (hooray for EQ), once I inevitably break them, I'm switching to the Zero 2's.

[@jacksonyu7257]

Having just watched his DUSK video, I think I know which frequency response / peak he is referring to at 5:37

[@Daniel-dj7fh]

How exactly do pads change the sound signature of the drivers? I can understand that different pad materials might absorb some echoing or isolate outside noise. But I can't understand how (like in Graph 3:08) balanced pads reduce bass or shift the whole right portion of the mids-high? Like why doesn't the 600-800Hz range change? Surely there is some form of linearity of change?

[@ammaarvora]

Just ordered Moondrop Chu 2 DSP. Let's see how it goes...

[@SamSubSonic]

Finally a new video after some years of waiting

[@MarkCupLee]

For an engineer, DSP is more then just EQ. As the name suggests, any kinds of processing before DAC is a form of DSP. Also, EQ and most of the "DSP" can be achived using analog circuit, which is how we did it without "DSP" before microprocessors were a thing.

[@anachronismic]

On the latter point, main thing in this context is form factor right? I would guess the kind of things you can do with a DSP chip would require a good amount more space to do in analog form at audio frequencies (I don't work in anlog components tho so maybe you could SoC it small enough idk). In less mobile setups I feel like people do use Analog solutions for that stuff in headphone amps and such

[@MarkCupLee]

@@anachronismic You can often find small circuit bord with couple of resistors and capacitors within IMEs (especially multi driver ones), although mainly used to do the frequency spliting, but doing it is also part of the tuning job(the CRN scandal is one of the more interesting case, for example). If you got to the point of using a SoC, it's DSP.

[@zodiacfml]

Agreed. While the simplification in the video is for the average audience, DSP can be discussed further and not all DSPs are the same. For example, back then in the early days of DSP IEMs, I remember it is about skipping the DSP in the smartphone which has its pros and cons.

[@anachronismic]

@@MarkCupLee yeah that's what I figured, thanks for the response!

[@HoveKB]

God, I’ve been working with QSC’s line of Dante DSPs for the past few years. As soon as I saw this was about DSPs I was filled with rage lol

[@BeastChan23]

I don't think anyone needs to know who DSP is lol

[@lunchbreak1792]

Any decent mmcx dsp cables?

[@awesomenessinstead]

Hey crinacle, thanks for your videos! Any chance of getting a review of the moondrop space travel? TWS for 25$ with great sound

[@carsonanthonycrake7806]

Will zero 2 come in type c with dsp

[@touchmez]

So if I doing EQ on my pc, dsp will the same thing but work not on pc, but on cable?

[@jeffyjefferyjeff2848]

perfect for me, my ear canals align to iec-711 specifications :)

[@vaishnavprasad7789]

How's this different from paring an iem with a dongle dac?

[@jareimefilm8480]

This question might be stupid but can anyone explain that how can I connect my DSP IEM to an audio interface without changing the cable. I couldn't find any adapters for it.

[@Daniel-dj7fh]

So from this video I pull out that there is no deficit to DSP, only that the manufacturer has to do a half good job with it at the bare minimum to make good sound. And that analog tuning is pretty much a waste of time since one can digitally fix the problems analog tuning would get close to fixing. Analog tuning also probably costing more since it requires more R&D and prototypes, DSP just being a chip with different codes saved onto the storage.

[@M_Huzaifah]

Crin is absolutely right. Analog tuning is VERY difficult. That's why Moondrop Variation is the best IEM in the world! /s

[@Sean1647]

Woe, DSP be upon ye

[@Amphibax]

Nobody ever asks how is DSP

[@oldaudionerd]

Question: if I want the sound of the Dusk DSP presets but use my DAP can I just set my EQ to Crin’s settings and save the profile? How would I get those settings? I’m a total newb to EQ, never tried it at all

[@VegetableJuiceFTW]

I would be really interested in "room" correction for junk speakers, but 100€ plus for miniDSP is just too much. Having a pc always in the loop is also too unconvinient. It is really funny that all the affordable dacs / amps producers have not figured out to include eq either. So what are my options? OpenDSP with a Pi or ESP? Abusing a 20$ usbc in ear cable wth EQ?

[@chimika5025]

mr crinacle, are you going to make a review for the Moondrop Space Travel?

[@capberganza]

thanks for the vid 🙏🏻

[@kristicana1384]

Questions : does type-C IEMs activate the Hiress Audio on Samsung devices like 24bit or 32bit ? Instead of using an amplifier

[@bobhensem3425]

true,i use dsp for some of my chi fi iem to tame the harshness 😊

[@w2cfx]

Incredible that raycon use dsp and still can't tune an earbud worth a damn

[@hackersvault]

Hi Crin. Have you ever tried Creative SXFI Trio?

[@budgetfisherman8798]

No one ask how is DSP😢

[@dougolsen]

What are your thoughts on the Status Audio True Wireless buds?

[@cle4tle]

dsp is what you find inside radios

[@eqmintz3723]

When is there gonna be a “Best tws” video?

[@BonjesBongo]

DSP is just MSG for sound

[@psyphonyxaudio]

GSP ?

[@banjogyro]

Tangzu Wan'er measurement on your site when?

[@Shhzhxjsjznxn]

Please help! I am looking for new inears and I consider getting the IE400. I am a big fan of Sennheiser and I generally like the way they deal with treble and vocals. Ive once bought the DT990 Pro and as much as I wanted to like them, the treble did just fatigue my ears after listening a while, I did send them back. I also bought the CX+ true wireless because I wanted something for on the go and when riding my bike, but I have a love-hate relationship with them. They sound too boomey and too V shaped to me, but I can also appreciate that the lows are way more prominent than with the HD650. Now I am looking for inears that do give me the experience the way it was intended, but don’t lack bass in general. Can anyone confirm the IE 400 give me the bass I want when listening to 50cent and the clarity I want when listening to Andrea Bocelli? I really want something that does it all but has the typical Sennheiser treble. I also like the fact that I can hook them to the bluetooth module when riding a bike and wind noise is more of a disturbance than bandwidth. Thanks in advance

[@matejgrim]

They always ask what is DSP, but noone asks how is DSP😔

[@thebrotatochip5469]

When is blessing 3 dusk x crincle colab done?

[@aoibleu9625]

Blessing 3 Dusk DSP

[@godisbey9970]

Does that mean that when my IEMs cable stops working i should buy a dsp cable?

[@freezingicy9457]

nuh uh

[@maverick9708]

dark side phill?

[@RenStrive]

Kek

[@ipodguy9]

Thanks :)

[@cluelessg4165]

I have a tanya dsp with a 3.5mm jack... is that why it sounds like shit on it's own? which means that I to buy a dac??? UGHHHHHH

[@ElvenSpellmaker]

The personalised DSP of the OnePlus Buds Pro 2 is totally amazing and makes them shine far above their price-point. If I could take a personalised EQ into the Mojo 2 and out to my Sony MDR-Z1R I'd be extremely happy. One day hopefully, one day.

[@mayurga8956]

One problem. One problem Mr. Crinacle. Crossfading!!!!! All the DSP cabl;e crossfading to the point that 1-2sec of any initial audio output is lost. That is my only problem. Nothing else.

[@adamreid5901]

Disability support pension

[@howdee_]

Add an “m” in between “s” and “p”, you get “dsmp”

[@TarunKanwar007]

You didn't ask "how is DSP?"😢

[@jesus2056]

Darksydphil

[@IonTrone]

DSPifi :)

[@Can_You_Hear_Me]

DSP is an Indian music composer 😸

[@flixelgato1288]

EQ? Nah real men limit their music to oblivion. I want to hear a civil loudness war in my headphones. No need to EQ when it’s all the same level anyway 😎

[@DriveFastEatGrass]

dy a meetr

[@Cp48533]

So it’s like AI, but for your music

[@masterazlan6999]

Meaning dsp is in fact a dac? Or dac chips + dsp chips?.. Pls elaborate.. Peace!

[@bani_niba]

When people use the term DSP, they mean some type of tuning in the digital realm (changing the sound for some reason). The goal of a DAC is usually the opposite - converting the digital representation of the sound wave (digital numbers composed of 1's and 0's) into an analog wave (voltage and current) with the least amount of audible change from what the digital version was meant to sound like.

[@masterazlan6999]

Wtf u r explainin What n how dac werks.. Im asked in the dongles, is it has dac chips or in this case dsp, is it a chips also?.. Btw wtf r u anyway... U r not the reviewer So suh2 go away freaks!.. Peace!

[@RaiosSephi]

Why are people using Raycon? LOL

[@PassengerMX]

sorry to complain, but the music is so annoying and distracting on such interesting explanation.

[@MobileDecay]

DSPGaming. Lol.

[@Q-Ball.]

I don’t know why people keep mispronouncing DMS

[@TheDynamite333]

By "simply" saying "simply DSP is EQ" you are degrading your audience. You would have came up with a better explanation I believe. I don't know the others but Tanchjim One has another version which has a cable without DSP and it's very well tuned acoustically. It is one of the top performers with/without DSP.

[@JuanAuribus]

Becus soun gud

[@logicphile6207]

Second!

[@Sahil99413]

69th

[@kechazatsu2316]

Please review the sony wf-1000xm5... please review the sony wf-1000xm5... sony is about the release the wf-1000xm6 before you review the xm5's 💀

[@Sherolox]

Too much bass, sounds like it was tuned for people with hearing loss in the bass. He literally said this at the beginning of the Dyson Zone Review.

[@GaryBusey-sLaserdiscCollection]

DSP can do magic (Accoustic Room Correction is unreal) but it's best used in conjuction with regular tuning. You can't out-DSP physics.

[@dentanau]

What kind of equipment can do this? Since it's room correction I assume we're talking about speakers. Are there seperate DAC's that do this now a days?

[@anachronismic]

@@dentanau some AV systems I've gotten recently have the room correction stuff built in. You plug a mic in and position it, the system runs what I think is a sine sweep, and then based on what it gets at the mic it can apply DSP to help correct for some of the deficiencies of the room. I think it's a thing you can do with special software separate from the AV systems. I think Darko Audio's done some discussion on it.

[@barbasour]

magic to inexperienced ears 😉

[@leeasy7112]

@@dentanauThere’s a product called Mini-DSP, paired with a microphone it does room corrections for speakers. However, you can’t use the corrected EQ profile by itself, you have to use it with its own DAC, and that DAC is horrific.

[@GuyGamer1]

@@dentanauIf you want to do room correction without any proprietary bullshit: Buy any reference microphone, they're about $80. You can use Room EQ Wizard to record the measurements and generate the EQ / DSP filters. Then you can export these filters in a variety of different formats to use for different hardware/software. You can use a software like Equalizer APO to use these filters on your PC,

[@Sushanttechworld]

Blessing 3 dusk when ?

[@hartyewh1]

Didn't he say February?

[@1988bman]

Blessing*

[@delta2613]

End of Q1 heading into q2 (best case) , cny is delaying the production but give or take, Soon™

[@clarencechoo5104]

Sometime after cny according to his twitter

[@locpham3031]

soon

[@ibsulon]

I get why DSP, but I don't get why companies using DSP don't give a handful of potential tunings for people to play with. What I really want is a higher end headphone (more than IEM) that is technically proficient (low distortion, has good headroom for EQ, etc) that then has a series of tunings and even room for custom tunings.

[@mehmetgurdal]

I think it's because it requires a good understanding of frequency response and targets. They can use the idiots way out and give the users some options at first. Like bass boost or clarity. Full blown parametric eq would freak out the normies

[@jtnachos16]

So in other words, you want a neutral mixing headphone and some basic presets for the various common tuning curves? I mean, you can already do that by way of most headphones marketed as 'studio' headphones or 'monitoring' headphones + a DAC and extant EQ. If the headphones are popular, there WILL be instructions out there as a step-by-step guide for EQing it to the common curves. It doesn't really make financial sense to be creating and maintaining a suite in-software for something very few users are going to really be messing with, especially when there are already softwares out there to do it for those who want to. Mind you, I'm still rocking DT770s and have them EQed for harman, Even having to use the software that my DAC came with (soundblaster) to EQ it via inputting values in a text file, it still took me less than 2 hours after starting to look for info to do it.

[@mehmetgurdal]

@@jtnachos16 yeah bud but tinkering with the settings everytime you plug a new headphone is a pain in the ass. I'd pay for it if there was a version of dawn pro with an on board eq profile memory. I'd flash my equalizer apo profiles to each one and wouldn't have to think about it.

[@jtnachos16]

@@mehmetgurdal Again, you are pointing to a rather niche use. The vast, VAST majority of users aren't switching headphones on a frequent basis, and those that ARE switching headphones on a frequent basis arent the type to want to EQ them all to fit into the same profiles in the first place. It's a solution in search of a problem, realistically speaking, especially since you either have an in-line DAC as part of the headphone or are using an external DAC that you'd have to program manually anyway.

[@mehmetgurdal]

@@jtnachos16 I know. But if I were to be Crin I'd at least consider this feature. I mean he already has collabs for most people. Why not make this one stand out by adding personalized eq options? It already has a dsp module that contains 4 different eq profiles. Groundwork is already there.

[@MrSilverio13]

DSP? DSP is a COMPETITIVE PRO MEANINGFUL STYLE PLAYER that plays ROBUST GAMEPLAY for STREET FIGHTER. He did nothing wrong, he does everything correct.

[@AdjutorMusic]

Thank god someone said it lol

[@Drinkboss]

Nahh dsp is a Dick Smith Product dsp

[@ryelo5448]

Yeah why do iems have dark side phyll?

[@logicphile6207]

You know Crinacle, I've been thinking along these lines recently. I would love a video on how one tunes IEMs - that is, when you're making an IEM, not using DSP. TY for coming to my ted talk.

[@jet613]

Didnt he do one on his old channel at some point with a tuning box? I guess if the old channel is dead you can't watch it. I hope he re uploads or does a new one. But I think the concept was akin to having an adjustable crossover in a box wired to each driver. And then you can test with your ears and measure frequency response with some microphones.

[@informedchoice2249]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hqTMm3t3i7GVq7s

[@kaeroseon]

From what I know, theres the stuff he pointed out in the video like tubing, vents, shell geometry, and then theres the old tuning box with crossover points and driver amplitude. And then in the dioko video and commonly used as a mod theres filters and filter swapping, nozzle material, nozzle length, and driver placement, rotation and seating/stability discussed by HBB on the Olina SE video.

[@icedcoffeecapricorn]

"Whatever doesn't offend you." 😂

[@sparkle74HvH]

Who is DSP? It's the guy! I am watching his stream!

[@MrSilverio13]

He did nothing wrong!

[@sparkle74HvH]

@@MrSilverio13 He did everything correct dood!

[@TheSakuraGumiLTD]

DSP can be any form of processing audio digitally on a chip within a device instead in a computer like device. DSP in studios will be a form of using plugins on a mic input without the latency of going into a computer and back out. I would hope DSP in headphones would be doing a little more than just eq... I would say some headphones need a dynamic EQ, and others, even more types of processing. EQ is a very basic fix, sometimes you need the EQ to change based on the amount going on the certain frequency. Say "these headphones are okay in the UPPER-MIDS until they get crowed and a dynamic EQ could bring down a few thin notices in parts of that area hen that happens to keep the clarity working. That's the sort of thing we do in mixing, the mix bus, and even mastering when we have to master something that isn't mixed properly lol. I do think that most companies do just do EQ... I would hope they would do more... if they are going to put it in, go to more effort than just EQ

[@artur9782]

My audio interface has dsp plugins, but the ones that are guitar amps are shit unforunately

[@DoesNotInhale]

I ask myself regularly why Dark Side Phil is, and I have yet to get an answer.

[@Darthmufin]

Darksydephil

[@curtismarek1706]

Darkside Phil?

[@kimikun83]

want to take dsp to the next level... asus was doing freaking headset with hdmi cable...yes you plug the freaking headset into hdmi port... its called strix dsp if im not wrong

[@podio_km4g532]

Ok, crin is 100% gonna release a usb c iem in like 1/2 months

[@cheatoffchannel6320]

Please review Moondrop CHU 2 !!!!!!!

[@claudiobizama5603]

Digital bad I only listen to music going from a crank gramophone with needle through a brass acoustic horn

[@MayankJairaj]

Crinacle what lenses do u use in ur glasses?

[@magmaman8119]

hi brother's Is anyone here just tried the kz x hbb pr2 iem's

[@sesuncedu]

You can always use something like the Qudelix 5k, which has a 20 band PEQ in the device, plus support for the autoeq database in software. This avoids having to use a different dac/cable for each product.

[@MrNoipe]

Or any Android phone also can do dsp

[@sesuncedu]

@@MrNoipe right, but that's not quite as convenient, even with something like wavelet (which is still pretty good).

[@M_Huzaifah]

Yes, this is the go-to solution if you want to use PEQ on an iPhone.

[@TripleKmafia]

DSP is the worst streamer of all time.

[@dineshdas8392]

I miss your old studio.

[@Hree]

This is how the buds 2 pro have changed its sound signature over time through updates. The DSP is getting updated...