Tuning the Megasquirt (Pt 10.) - E85 Ultimate Guide 1

[@igorrusu6750]

I do not usually comment but this is the best playlist tutorial i came across!! I got my car dyno tuned on e85 recently and was having some issues afterwards. Now i have a more in depth knowledge on how everything works and feel comfortable messing around with the settings. Great job on the whole playlist!

[@Samiyr]

Great video, I'm not going to lie your videos are the reason that I upgraded my MS2 to an MS3X. Love the videos and the easy to follow layout. Still looking for the part 2 to this video.

[@OGPedXing]

I appreciate it! Yeah part 2 has been super slow in the making. 😔 I'm compiling a bunch of the things to look out for when going e85 and how to fix them. Thanks for hanging in there!

[@mlfishing842]

Very interesting watch mate! :) Thanks Ped

[@e34boat88]

doing first start soon on long time project car and im running e85. thanks alot for this info

[@howardhutchinson]

Absolutely educational. The tenor, visual aids, and bullet point of views, was quite instructional. This is tantamount to a tutorial. Thanks man.

[@OGPedXing]

Thanks! Appreciate the feedback

[@1000milleun]

Incredible work, thank you so much. As a French speaker you are clear and easy to understand.

[@OGPedXing]

Merci!

[@deanstevenson6527]

EAT 85..Street is Neat...and Korn is Sweet. Thnks OGP.....

[@iMagic16]

best content ever

[@morganfreeman5171]

I wish i had an MS3 because it really opens up so much possibilities. For now I'll have to do with my budget and ms2x. Great info anyways, thanks !

[@OGPedXing]

I saved a lot building my ms3x from the kit. It's actually a lot easier to do than you might think. While I had soldered things before, I had never done circuit boards. But I picked it up really quickly by practicing on an old board with some misc parts. Only took an afternoon to do the ms3!

[@jayhorsley80]

Perfect video! Thanks bunches

[@elip9810]

good guide man , thanks

[@adanadames3202]

Great video

[@norb231]

If you set the setback multiplier to 100% on sensor fault when running e85 it will fault to a too lean condition I would set it to 140% bit safer Stoich of E10 is 14.10 not 14.6:)

[@OGPedXing]

That is good advice. Yeah for this particular tune the stoich was 14.6 and the ve table is matched to it...meaning it was wrong from the beginning and then the ve was rich to compensate,lol. Dates from before I had a sensor to give me the real ethanol content. 😊

[@John-rw9bv]

This was an everything-you-need-to-know that actually contained everything-i-needed-to-know, you're a legend mate cheers! Would a lot of this also apply to an LPG conversion? LPG is a mix of propane and butane. I'm not sure if you can buy a sensor that detects the % of each, but if you could...?

[@OGPedXing]

Will you be running only lpg or switching between lpg and gasoline? If switching, this is usually done with the table switch features and you can wire in an actual switch which the ECU will use to determine what fuel tables to use. For both cases though, a wideband O2 sensor will work fine. They work for all combustible fuels since they are reading oxygen content after the burn. So lambda1.0 will be stoichiometric for lpg, same as for gasoline. Stoich in afr for lpg is something like 15.5 vs gasoline's 14.7 but that doesn't matter because the sensor is always reading lambda.

[@OGPedXing]

Yeah for that, I don't know of a sensor. Unfortunately you may be stuck with getting a tune for your particular LPG supplier and then have to wing it a bit with another mix, like doing some auto tuning after every new tank.

[@boosted55chevy24]

Great videos thank you. I have a question. I am running an ms3 goldbox and enabled flex fuel as per the video. However, it doesn't seem to be automatically adjusting. It's reading the percentage and idles fine, but as soon as I try and give a liitle throttle it goes way lean. Any suggestions? Thank you.

[@lxmpia]

10:14 I have a question I have in mind. If I change the AFR ratio on e85 (9.8:1) will I'll still be able to target values on the gasoline scale such as 14.7:1 at idle?

[@OGPedXing]

If you change it on the req fuel calculation table then yes. If you change it on the general settings fuel screen then no, you would then have to convert everything to the e85 afr scale, so 9.8 instead of 14.7. That's why I recommend not bothering since the displayed afr is based on lambda values. As long as you stay consistent on the tune for what you enter, it works fine.

[@lxmpia]

@@OGPedXing Thank you man! My car has been running great since I converted it into e85, I hope you keep doing this type of videos. I really learned a lot!!!

[@matthewmoilanen787]

Not to contradict but Alcohol burns slower and less "explosively" than gas. But it burns longer so and applies less combustion pressure but for a longer period of time to effectively apply more total pressure to the crank through the piston and rod. This is why alcohol makes more power and is less destructive to internal engine parts. As a side note on alcohol dirt mods we find that typically we don't or shouldn't add more timing as it doesn't add any power. The longer burn time on the power stroke seems to be the big benifit and using that up by advancing timing won't provide any advantage.

[@OGPedXing]

In my research, the laminar flame speed of ethanol is .455 meters per second vs .4 m/s for gasoline. That's what I was referring to. That doesn't necessarily contradict your points, though. Full combustion is different from flame speed. On a dyno, you will typically be able to get more power in any part of the curve where gasoline was knock limited by advancing the timing. Other places, it won't help and may lower mbt.

[@matthewmoilanen787]

@@OGPedXing According to the national institute for health combustion rates for gasoline are faster than for alcohol and flame speed propagation in a non enclosed area has no effect on combustion rates. Typically any ability to advance timing has to do with the cooling effect of alcohol fuels when inserted in the fuel air tract of an internal combustion engine as u have stated making it less knock prone. In my years of racing (I'm 63) with a race gas powered car ignition advance can be run as much as 35 total degrees. Alcohol engines tend to rarely use any more than 28. Of course adjustments will probably have to be made in a street driven vehicle.

[@OGPedXing]

@matthewmoilanen787 Hmm, that's not my experience at all. Just with my Miata, 28 degrees is very low...down a lot from max torque. I don't have the paper in front of me, but it is measured in a compressed state (piston) at lambda = 1.

[@matthewmoilanen787]

​@@OGPedXingOf course you'll want to adjust accordingly for your street driven vehicle, combustion chamber type, valve train type, bore stroke ratio, ect but we and most other dirt or asphalt oval guys seem to settle on about 28-32 max. If u have made Dyno runs and found your ideal to be more than 28 then you should of course do that. Most importantly is that more timing isn't necessarily optimum but it may work well in your case. I have been told by the so called "pro" engine guys that the biggest benefit for them was the increased burn time and pressure application on the power stroke. They have explained that starting the fire too early just pulls power sometimes because combustion pressure starts to rise while the piston is still raising. You seem to be doing a great job on explaining the installation of this control unit and if it works better for you with more advance good on you for finding that out and pulling that last bit of power. Again nice work on the vids as you are a huge help to allot of people trying to work this stuff out!

[@natetheocles5671]

Your videos are awesome man. How did you get started with your quest to becoming a tuner?

[@OGPedXing]

Thanks, appreciate it! My tuning journey began with just wanting to understand everything myself so I did a ton of reading...ECU manuals, forums, etc. That's what inspired the videos, it was such a battle to sift through everything to learn real stuff that works that I didn't want others to have to go through what I did, 😂. So I began this tuning series to help people come up from basically nothing like I did.

[@natetheocles5671]

@@OGPedXing I've been watching tons of videos and ordering cartech books and your series definitely bridge a lot of information gaps vs some other videos that expect viewers to be ready for diving deep into the material. In addition to the self-made tuner route, are you aware of any legitimate schools for tuners and/or performance engine builders? I've talked to several schools and am suspicious of a money grab that won't help with entering the industry.

[@Go4BrokeOffroad]

Enjoy watching your videos and trying new stuff in tuner studio. Do you think you could drive an external pwm through the tacho wire? Just to turn it on/off?

[@OGPedXing]

It may depend on the solenoid. Usually they want 12v and the tach output is 5v, however you may be able to supply 12v from another source and use the tach output side as the ground side. The polarity doesn't matter for nearly all solenoids.

[@Go4BrokeOffroad]

@@OGPedXing that is my idea. I bought a 3v-20v dc/dc ssr100amp. I want to use that to power the external pwm that is controlling my methanol Injectors. I have the pump on a hobbs

[@docfischer7291]

Ok. Newbie stupid question… So not with the ECU or ability to use Tuner Studio currently I figured I would ask, having started to design a fuel tank/supply setup to switch from 91- 93+ octane fuel to E10-E85 ethanol is there a way that you can setup a button on a digital dashboard or manual switch that can change that setup on the fly at the racetrack?

[@OGPedXing]

Tuner studio will support a number of ways to have an external input like a switch change what happens with fuel and other related tables. The table switch feature is exactly for this situation although usually the physical tank you switch to is not running a blended fuel. Usually you just have full e100 race gas or propane or something else. If you're just running a blend of anywhere from e10 to e85 then usually you'd just put whatever in the normal tank and tune with the dual fuel blending table feature. No switching required, car will run well on everything. Edit: this needs a flex fuel sensor and will work best with an ms3.

[@jmpcrx]

Hi, thanks for all your videos, have been going through them... Ive nearly finished a turbo conversion on my mk2 mx5 and was wondering if you might give me a quick bit of advice 😁😁.. I'm in the UK and the government has recently changed most of the fuel over here from e5 (5% ethenol) to e10 (10% ethenol). This apparently could cause some problems for the fuel systems on older cars like mine. I have a new ms3 mini. I will get it mapped by a tuner soonish and was hoping to take advantage of the extra ethanol in the new e10 fuel. (I can still buy e5, but it is 99octane and very very expensive). But was wondering what parts of the fuel system I would have to replace to make it more reliable? Just any rubber hoses? Or do you know of any more internal hard to reach parts that could fail? I'm guessing it would be the same parts that you would have to change when using e85..? Thanks 👍👍

[@OGPedXing]

Short answer: nothing. E10 will work fine in your stock fuel system. Over here we've been on e10 for about 20 years, regular hoses and fuel pumps are just fine. If you really wanted to, you could replace the rubber hoses with SAE J30R9 spec which is not too expensive. The MK2 are mostly returnless so one or two hoses in the engine bay and a couple around the fuel tank end. Buy 10 feet/3 meters and that should be plenty. Once you switch over you can also replace your fuel filter. The little more ethanol can stir up some stuff. Usually more of an issue when switching to full e85 though.

[@jmpcrx]

@@OGPedXing thanks for the reply 👍👍. Think I'll go ahead anyway and replace those hoses like you say,, (I've watched your other vid now which helps too thanks) just incase the US cars use different spec fuel hose to UK. 🍻🍻

[@e34boat88]

any idea why i have ve value of 70 in idle? seems high. i have all settings correct for injectors. deadtime, size, required fuel. i have 2000cc engine 940cc injectors 4x, fuel press ia correcr and e85 as fuel. im bit lost here

[@OGPedXing]

It can vary. The number itself is somewhere from 0 to 255, so your setup and hardware needs 70 at idle while someone else with a 1.6 engine, other injectors will be lower. If your idle is stable and at the afr you want, then you are good. If your map is too high at the top (you're running a lot of boost and you are close to 255) you can modify required fuel and then bring your map numbers down. But usually, it won't matter.

[@e34boat88]

@@OGPedXing okay now i can relax and just tune the car in peace. thank you😊

[@willievanhoesen4455]

hello, are you familiar with the microsquirt from AMP'd? and if so do you know if you have to do the ls1 mods inside?

[@OGPedXing]

I haven't used it personally but it seems like it supports the Gm ls1 ignition. Probably not fully sequential though.

[@willievanhoesen4455]

@@OGPedXing no, it's batch fire for the injectors and wasted spark for the coils. Thanks any, i like your channel.

[@skidpins669]

what would be causing my ve to be maxxed out at 255 but only at 45% duty cycle?

[@OGPedXing]

Something is off with the req fuel calculation or the injector flow rate setup is my guess.

[@skidpins669]

​@@OGPedXing have all the req fuel settings correct just unsure about the injector staging and squirts per cycle, currently 2 squirts simultaneous. thanks for the reply :)

[@mielsen7498]

Awesome video! Wouldn't running on e85 cause a lot higher cylinder (peak) pressures because it burns faster and you'll add spark advance? Isn't that the weak spot for a stock (miata) engine where it would bend your rods? Thanks for anyone clearing that up :)

[@OGPedXing]

Yes, that's possible. Regardless of method, (e85, turbo, supercharger) I recommend staying below 240 ftlb of torque on stock rods with a Miata. The block is beefy but the rods can only go so far. Typically we'll add 2-6 degrees of timing in the power band and that's it when running e85.

[@mielsen7498]

@@OGPedXing OK, that leaves ethanol with the advantages of being more knock resistant and its high cooling capacity. I always try to run very conservative spark timing until about 4700rpm where the cams are most efficient and then go up in timing to make a usable powerband from around 5500 to 7400rpm with high boost and comparatively high spark timing. That way we were quite succesful with keeping stock engines alive. So with e85 the max. hp (/torque) number isn't higher but just easier to achieve, can we agree on that? Or am I missing something?

[@OGPedXing]

@@mielsen7498 I'd phrase it slightly different, the max HP can be higher on e85 due to its properties and knock resistance, but that Hp can be safer to achieve. However too much power bends rods, regardless of everything else being perfect or fuel type. A good Dyno session or even Virtual Dyno software can help you know when you're getting to that limit.

[@ant9648]

How would I configure gasoline to e85 with injector change 500cc to 1000cc

[@OGPedXing]

I would do it in two steps. First get your new injectors set up (change req fuel and your injector specific settings for dead time, etc) and get tuned on gas. Then do the changes as I go through in the video to set up e85 and tune a second map for use in the dual fuel mode.

[@ant9648]

@@OGPedXing thankyou for all the information it's been of great help, the car idles perfectly at warm and starts first time. I do need some help with cold start idle as It's a bit low, don't have an iac, is playing with the warm up enrichment the best way to increase the idle revs.

[@OGPedXing]

One thing you can try is to increase the timing a bit in the idle cells, especially in the column for an rpm that is lower than your desired idle rpm. So say you idle at 800 rpm and 15 degrees of advance. For the column before that, say 600 rpm, make the timing be 18 or 20 advanced. This will kick the rpms up a bit when they drop below target and it works without an IAC.

[@robmespeedy]

I wish this guy was my auto shop instructor 👨‍🏫 Why am I limited with MSPNP2 ? 15:15

[@OGPedXing]

Haha, thanks! The ms3 added a bunch of functions related to tables blending and switching over the ms2. So a lot of the screens following that point won't be available for ms2 users. The ms2 e85 setup was mostly just the auto blend function as opposed to fully separate tables.

[@robmespeedy]

@@OGPedXing you are awesome! Now I wish I would have bought an MS3 for my E30 but they didn’t have a plug and play.

[@joelhernandez393]

@@robmespeedy I use mspnp2 and run flex fuel just fine

[@robmespeedy]

@@joelhernandez393 dude how to I add you? I have many questions

[@mike4fo]

Dam I’m limited with ms2pnp lol