The perfect guitar neck: And how to find it!

[@ruijorgemoreno]

An informative, non-BS video is rare, these days. Great job!

[@dr_lulz]

One of the best Luthiers in the world and I have tested and owned MANY guitars. Turnstone = magic.

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

Now I'm really blushing!!

[@DrustIV]

Excellent and detailed overview of guitar necks, and delivered clearly. I've learned a lot and you've inspired me to measure my nut ...... on my Furch dreadnaught!

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

@@DrustIV Great! I’m so pleased you found the information helpful!

[@alastair6356]

Good idea to check the playability with ear plugs in. I have always went for the sound when choosing a guitar . I have a few guitars from various makers and play celtic music however find the dynamic changes with what guitar I play some suit playing certain tunes while others dont , some guitar necks are faster than others. I like your scientific approach. I always get my local luthier to set my guitars up the way I like them with low action. I see on your guitars the bone saddle is quite wide does this increase transmission .

[@Therapyxx]

The neck shape is really very imporant. You could not see it at first, even by trying the guitar in store. But when you start using the guitar in your daily practice - you will feel whats better or worse. My first guitar is Yamha FG800 with modern C neck. At this point there was no experience with other necks and hand... Ok it hurted anytime anyways (beginning stage). Just a bit later I decided to buy a new guitar, fall in love with Furch red (and yeah I still have an opinion that its most quality and best sounding guitars compared to all taylors, martins and matons which I've tried). All Furch guitar (except custom shop) have their soft V neck shape and 45mm nut width (whats great value for fingerstyle). I was happy with everything except one thing - each time I took my Yamaha, it was easier to play, I tried Taylors - it was easier to play. I've visited guitar tech 2 times. I've learned everything about nuts/saddles, how to build them and how to setup everything. But without success, I still had that weird thumb pain after +/- 1 hour practicing. Then I mentioned that my Furch need a slight neck reset, my guitar seller took the guitar and sent to Furch to repair that. So I came back to my Yamaha for 6 weeks. All that time I didnt have thumb pain and then I started realizing whats the real issue... When I got back my guitar, I've tried to rework positioning, adapt it etc, but unfortunately without success. Exchanged this beatuful guitar for a Taylor one and now I can as usual play 1, 2, 3 hours without any annoying pain. Just normal muscle tiredness as usual. So considering this fact... It's not enough just to find a guitar in the store, which speeks to you. You have really play it at least for some days to make final conclusion.

[@jeffreydonahue8564]

Very well done! As a fairly new player, I feel I need more experience playing before deciding on a guitar neck type. But I love having this information to make me aware of what to look (and feel) for. Many thanks!

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

@@jeffreydonahue8564 I’m so pleased you found this useful for the future!

[@blindboy1787]

Great video, really well put together - lots of time in editing by the looks! Finding the right neck is a mission; you find a guitar where you love the tone and balance and the neck is not for you and vice versa. Its like the hunt for the snark sometimes. I like the ear plug tip, very useful.

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

@@blindboy1787 Yes it turned out to be a lot to get in. It’s such an important part of the equation, as you suggest.

[@peteannells4218]

Great video and sound advice. I have a (permanently) injured left hand so have only limited finger-spread...I'm no John James ! Flat-picking works best for me. I do like a flatter board. My most comfortable guitar is an electric; Westone Thunder 1A with a c profile and a 43mm nut width. Thin and slim. My acoustic is an EKO J42 (fore-runner of the Ranger series) with a 45mm nut/zero fret width and a Frankenstein Headstock repair (I think they used epoxy and two bolts...solid, shame about the earthquake style crack. Nice and cheap though.) In my cycling days I asked an old clubman, "what makes a frame fast ?" Two word answer. "Your legs"). Ergo, I go for the result (sound/speed) first. But I still hanker after a pretty guitar tat sounds good, even with me playing.

[@sambow4u]

I watched your Channel , pretty much since you started ! And I Pride myself in Innovative designs and engineering ! I've Lived in the Appalachian Mountains of N.C. all my life and Because I'm such a Country Boy , My " Flattops " lean into a Tasteful touch of my Heritage ! However,, watching your channel is one of the Few that I do watch , which really really show craftsmanship and design ! Most are the Same Bla Bla Bla ,,, But I absolutely Love listening to your Vids. and the Thinking in your Design !

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

@@sambow4u thanks for your really sweet comment. I really appreciate it!

[@jonathanvince8173]

Ok strings falling off the neck some guitars are wound outside of the tuners so what you do is wind the strings on the inside of the tuners should fit the nut that should keep the strings inline also depends on where the tail of the Guitar is wound too. When making a guitar tuners should be in a straight line with tail string holders there should not be a bent string to the tuner as that does affect string tension also affect note and sound. Each acoustic guitar has its own sound and may change in weather.

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

@@jonathanvince8173 Strings falling off the fretboard has nothing to do with the way the strings are wound around the tuners, as the nut sets the strings off on their course towards the saddle. Angle of string in nut is a larger subject but generally, if the angle is splayed much like Martin, Taylor or Gibson etc headstocks, you’re usually fine. Humidity changes is another subject all together.

[@robertnewell5057]

I agree with Rosie about the strings falling off thing. This issue starts at the nut, and is dependent on the distance between the string and the fingerboard edge along the length of the fretboard. Regarding the line of the string from the tuner to the nut, that is an interesting one. I have had several guitars where the string line from tuner to nut reflects the string line down to the saddle. In fact, I first suggested this to a maker who was handmaking a guitar for me back in 1976. He went on to make all his guitars line that, disguising the shape of the headstock to make it look more balanced by putting a kind of curve splayed out at the top. I guess the most famous examples of this are Ovations and (I think) PRS acoustics and Emeralds. That said, having played Martin, Collings and Fylde, I now believe the difference is minimal if the nut is well made. By the same token all pedal steel guitars have the straight line you describe, which works well (and is probably essential) with roller nuts.

[@robertnewell5057]

Wow. you went through that lot at a fair clip! Great comprehensive description. Any thoughts on equal versus proportional string spacing at the nut (a la Stewmack nut ruler)?

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

Sorry about that, there was a lot to cover! And there's still more to come!! I'm firmly in the proportional string spacing camp. With the string gauges we use the amounts are minimal, but I prefer not to have the bass strings crowded and the trebles further apart. I actually use the StewMac nut ruler :-)

[@robertnewell5057]

@@TurnstoneGuitars Me too :->

[@GaryArmstrongmacgh]

I have three Fender guitars. Two Strats and one Tele. Only recently did I realize that all the necks were of a slightly different size. And I could see it! My oldest was the thinnest. No wonder it was the easiet to play. Duh! The newer (as of 2008) MiM necks by Fender are quite a bit thicker than a MiUSA 1982 neck.

[@franksalter5004]

Thanks, this is really informative and interesting. I've got smallish hands so my acoustics don't have really chunky necks - I guess they'd all be classified as C- or D- shaped? The favourite is my Martin OM28ce.

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

@@franksalter5004 Yes I would imagine it’s a C shape. Thanks for commenting!

[@barondavis5692]

Good information, thanks.

[@peterstephen1562]

Well done clear presentation. Should go some way to helping codify neck parameters that will help bloody players describe what they experience.

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

@@peterstephen1562 Yes I hope this is helpful in that regard! There are critical dimensions that are quite easy to measure.

[@guitarfreakirl]

My Takamine has an asymmetrical neck and I love it, it's so comfortable to play. Thicker on the bass side than the treble side. I just wish it was 45mm instead of 42.5 because I play fingerstyle.

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

@@guitarfreakirl Ah brilliant. I did this on a commission a few years back, on a sycamore neck. Same as you - more D on the bass side and shallow C on the treble. It’s a really nice feel. That neck had a 49mm nut, so it was a bit of a chunky monkey! You definitely would appreciate a slightly wider nut for sure if you play intricate fingerstyle.

[@user-tn6sd4cn9y]

So very interesting. What an amazing insight you have stuffed into eight minutes! I have never really thought about what gives a guitar a better feel. And I am a retired engineer! 😏. It all makes perfect sense thanks to your clear explanation. You have definitely inspired me to go investigate my guitars - and have me wondering if a custom is the way to go. And, your insight and willingness to communicate it gives me confidence that I would receive proper consideration as your customer.

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

@@user-tn6sd4cn9y I’m so pleased you found this useful! Thanks for your comment and yes, we are here should you wish to explore things further as and when 😊

[@norcalbob3838]

I'm an ukulele player with large hands and favor soprano ukes with a 35mm but these days. My current favorite is the flattest profile as well. I have one instrument with the much lauded 38mm nut and have to make myself play it even though it's the koa...

[@firecrackerheart]

thanks for your experienced neck info, yo .. .

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

My pleasure!

[@ZionForman]

great

[@kinnjohn]

Fretboard radius may also make a difference . Great video.

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

@@kinnjohn yep you’re totally right! I should have mentioned it along with the other bits at the end. I may have had a temptation to spiral into compounds and other options though! #overload 🤪

[@FrankBirtwistle]

I bought a Baton Rouge ARC21/ACE a few years ago - the 46mm nut width and 630mm scale length really helped my playing - it wasn't expensive at £350 but because of the string spacing I'm sticking with that one for now. I've been looking around the local shops for one with 47-48mm just to see if that's even better but not found any yet. They all seem to be following the current trend of 43-45mm - and the string spacing feels really cluttered under my fingers whilst playing those - especially when the action is higher than it should be.

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

@@FrankBirtwistle That’s great to hear. Yeah I’d say that 46mm is on the upper end of the spectrum for factory built steel string guitars, but you never know there could be some out there. They are usually listed on the manufacturers websites in the specs, so you could do some scouring around the web. I think factories are favouring that slinky feel, for simple chords etc over the ability to play technically (with a need for wider spacing).

[@andreasfetzer7559]

Very good video. I would like to know, why for example on my gibson es335 ,with a very small nut, i am still able to play proper chords in the 1 position, but have problems with near strings on even wider nut guitars

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

@@andreasfetzer7559 I’m not sure I 100% understand the description of your issue, but I would guess that with a wider nut, you are struggling to get your hand appropriately around the neck to give you the proper purchase you need for chording. If your fingers can’t get around the neck comfortably on a larger neck ,there is not enough space for your hand to get into the correct position. Let me know if I’ve misunderstood what you have said, happy to help more!

[@jonathanvince8173]

I have small hands fingers that can't reach full octaves finger that I find hard for acoustic guitars. if too thick it is a problem if too wide a problem Perhaps I should had tried violin. I have in bits sadly a Hofner guitar called a club 60 it is very old but the neck was cracked and bits broke off electronics very poor indeed. liked the neck but on the guitar could never reach hi frets as made high bridge over the Guitar body. If you look them up you will see my issue. I must find a place to restore the guitar but for me the frets too close to the wood which mean press too hard well fingerboard would get the strings. Through body is the way for me really Like Storey Guitars were made the best I have ever seen and heard. All fenders were a problem only the smaller jumbo fret Ibanez were any good. So I felt out of it and gave up. Now Older perhaps I could remake the Hofner club 60 my way and get the Hofner restored. Depending on funds now sadly.

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

@@jonathanvince8173 Sounds like you’ve definitely given this subject lots of thought which is great. Hope you get to rebuild that guitar one day!

[@cugir321]

How does the neck effect the volume....tone? Overtones? How does string height effect it? How does scale length effect sound? Laminate vs solid? Why is a 5 piece neck better or worse? What makes a guitar vintage sounding vs. Modern? Why do some guitar's have piano type overtones and some not...especially old vintage instruments? I don't think it's just the wood. I've neard Brazilian rosewood you couldn't give me and some that rings like a bell. Why do some necks have dead strings that don't ring well...especially in locations....such as the low "E" string in the 2nd to 6th fret area? What's the solution for it? What are the variations of neck placement on the body and how do they effect sound and playability?

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

@@cugir321 I think attempting to answer all your questions would give me at least 10 more videos of content!

[@66Gollum]

I have really fat fingers, so I bought a 7 String guitar and rebuild it for 6 strings. I have 49mm with on the saddle now and good space. But now im a little bit in trouble with my thumb... do you think changing more to a V shape would help?

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

@@66Gollum Is the trouble getting your thumb over the top of the neck and onto the fretboard? If so yes a V shape may help this or even just shallowing down to C if the neck is a bit bulky, I imagine will help you.

[@66Gollum]

@@TurnstoneGuitars but de V shape is not realy a V - otherwise one would get a sharp edge to to fretboard?

[@yunowot]

May i ask a question of your expertise, please. Am i altering the neck profile of my yamaha ac5r as arthritis is making it difficult for me to play and i can't afford an alternative? Would be so grateful for your advice.

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

@@yunowot Yes you could give it a go but if your woodworking skills are minimal you may end up doing more damage than good to the instrument. If you are handy with a rasp and sanding, you could certainly try taking some meat off the edges in a systematic way and refinish the areas with some varnish or french polish. The repair may not be that pretty but on a cheaper guitar and no alternative, it could be a way forward. I wish you best with whatever you decide to do!

[@yunowot]

@@TurnstoneGuitars thank you +++ that was very kind of you.

[@accentontheoff]

Hello there, lately, I am finding that I am drawn to wider and thinner necks, For what it is worth my palm is 8 inches from fingertip to wrist ring. Are there any standard dimensions for what constitutes a small, medium or large hand. Thanks.

[@TurnstoneGuitars]

@@accentontheoff I’d say your hands are certainly on the larger side. Generally glove sizes would determine your size, so I’d hazard a guess (if I may be so bold….) that you are an XL. So I’m not surprised you are drawn to wider necks. I’d start around a 46mm nut and see how you go. You may still like the neck thinner for playability ease but I imagine you’ll want to pay attention to your string spacing too and ensure your neck is getting progressively wider as it goes down the neck.

[@accentontheoff]

@@TurnstoneGuitars Excellent thanks! Will try that.

[@skintslots]

It's quite ridiculous how difficult it is to find a budget guitar,acoustic and particularly electric,that doesnt have a standard 45mm nut width. It seems Asian made instruments are stuck with the 42/43mm made for their own (generally smaller stature) own citizens. This makes little sense given how many guitars they now export. And I say this as a Westerner with smaller hands and fingers.

[@lawrencerasmus]

This is why you should try before you buy. Mail order guitars are a crap shoot