Turtle Bunbury: The Knights Templar - An Irish Perspective

[@derekwilson9399]

Excellent stuff.

[@greenfingerzzzz]

Fascinating lecture, thanks for sharing 👏

[@Nightguardian]

I am hearing that the widely accepted account of the wholesale massacre of Jerusalem during the first crusade is incorrect. I am told it was Turkish propaganda revived by anit-Catholics during the Reformation. If anyone has time, it might be worth revisiting this part of history and pulling up comparative accounts.

[@BrianS1981]

No, it's pretty well accepted by actual historians that the massacre happened. You've got to remember how deeply anti-semitic and anti-islam christian Europe was in the middle ages. For anti-semitism, the massacres actually started before the pilgrimages left their home towns, with thousands of jews being killed in Germany alone. For anti-islamic thinking, remember how demonised the Andalusian Spaniards were just for being muslim at this time, plus quite a lot of poorer pilgrims were so unused to seeing non-white people they had trouble thinking they could even be human. There's way too much evidence both contemporary and archaeologically to say that the massacres of Jerusalem and Antioch (especially) didn't happen. What can be disputed is the numbers, because medieval chroniclers always exaggerated numbers.

[@xouat]

Contemporary western sources are pretty explicit on the matter.

[@Nightguardian]

@@xouat In which way? I mean, which angle are you supporting? If you don't mind, please elaborate.

[@Polycarp-g6z]

William of Tyre is the best source for the account, and as the gentlemen pointed out, the Templers DID NOT KILL CHRISTIANS. But at least 90% of the Muslim population of Jerusalem were killed. Also, you need to remember that the majority of the contemporary population were Christian. Finally as an Irishman who also has Academic qualifications in islamic studies and lived in the Middle East for 8 years, the man mispronounced the battle of HATTIN, NOT HATTAN, AND It was led by Guy De Lusingnon, husband of Sabila the Armenian Queen of Jerusalem her second husband. Sadly, he, although he has knowledge, he done a poor job in the lack of emphasis on the Knights Hospitaler who had a far stronger link with ireland, and the 6th crusade was a victory for the Christians and Jerusalem was shared for a longer period. Finally the Lombards were NOT the bankers of Italy it was infact the Greek Byzantines. Bless you all

[@LupinGaius-ls1or]

@@Nightguardian Meaning that they were hyperbolic but did describe a massacre.

[@LupinGaius-ls1or]

The first Crusade was largely Franks, not Norman’s. The pilgrims being mugged and murdered (as well other oppression) was what finally started the crusades. Corn wouldn’t come tu Europe until after Spanish contact in the Americas in the 1500s. The king of Portugal actually protected the Templars there, there remains an order under a different name with continuity to the Portuguese Templars.

[@Nightguardian]

I noticed that about the "corn". However, I believe in many countries they're talking about grain in general whereas Americans mean "maize" when we say "corn". You're also right about the Franks.

[@BrianS1981]

1) Corn in Europe is a historically generic term for any grain food 2) attacking pilgrims was largely being stamped out by the local Seljuks by this time, they were as lucrative for them as they were for the later crusader states. The thing is there was at the time a surplus of fighting men in Europe (after a string of intercommunal wars), disarray in the muslim world (the Abbasids and Fatimids had split irrevocably and the first wave of Turkish invaders had gone into Persia and Turkey). So Urban II exploited a mixture of greed, xenophobia and religious fanaticism to direct a large group of previously idle soldiers into hitting an external enemy before they could start fighting each other (again).

[@joebloggs1356]

Also, extremely simplified historical account. The knights invited to come to Ireland are nothing to do with anglo westbrits that stalk the halls of history dept nowadays

[@joebloggs1356]

Best fighters in history. Except maybe the Hospitalliers at Malta.

[@Polycarp-g6z]

My dear Irish brother. I'm an Irishman now living in the UK. I spent 8 years in the Middle East/Lavant. I have an MA in islamic studies and speak Arabic and Hebrew. That is why I felt that I need to remind you that the quran does NOT mention the Dome of the rock. Nor that Muhammad took the miraj/night journey to Jerusalem. It actually makes no sense as he went from the hijaz to the furthest masjid/mosque. It was only assumed that it was there by later Muslims. As that particular Surah is totally incoherent and as nonsensical as the flying donkey/horse that he went on

[@Packyboy]

Irish temples were the same as the English Templars and the French Templars and the scotch Templars… they were Templars cause they could get up each other.

[@leprechaun7667]

Im sick of the lies.....yous know your dates are all lies.... the vail has been lifted onyou all