Two Valve Drum Corps G Baritone (Euphonium?) Bugle Review

This is quite a peculiar instrument from the olden days of drum corps before standard three-valved instruments were used in competitions. This instrument usually plays in its upper register so that a third valve is more or less obsolete (the first valve slide can be pushed in rather than out to fix the chronically flat 7th harmonic) The tone is nice, and the highs and lows speak clearly, including the pedals. Very enjoyable to play on, as impractical as it may be.
Bugle cred: Clearwater Music Center

[@thecorki9607]

I am satisfied

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

I am satisfied with your satisfaction

[@Evermore2017]

Listen to that huge voice. Go into radio.

[@chrishickie8600]

Marched that exact model of horn for two summers of drum corps and it was an absolute beast. It doesn’t take long to build up the endurance to hold that in front of your face for 12 hrs a day during every days I promise.

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Sheesh, I barely could have held this thing up for half an hour!

[@chrishickie8600]

Samuel Plays Brass I will never forget my first camp we were in horn arc and I literally was struggling so much I was embarrassed. I was 16 and was just convinced that it wasn’t going to beat me and I would just wander around my neighborhood with that horn out in front of my face! I’m sure I looked a little ridiculous, but coming off field at finals retreat that August made it all worth it. This was ‘95 as well so it isn’t like I marched in the 80’s this wasn’t to terribly long ago

[@megafonzie5541]

@@SamuelPlaysBrass Trick was to hang tennis shoes on this beast during horn rehearsal so as to build up your "back chops".

[@TheSteakStyles]

Gotta love that second suite part

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

It works surprisingly well on this horn too!

[@raymondfallon7429]

The old days didn't have 2 valves - they had one horizontal valve and a rotary valve. The really old days had one horizontal valve and a slide you could get a half tone out of. Really really old days (until about 1946) didn't have a valve - just the old boy scout bugle - open overtones. Your old days began in around 1976. 2 valve bugles were only allowed to be introduced one voice per year (by DCI) which made for an enormous mess. Your horn is practically modern.

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Very interesting. Thanks for the history lesson!

[@raymondfallon7429]

@@SamuelPlaysBrass history! That's my life!!! I started playing one of those one valve bugles in 1960! If you like the 2 valve horns, see if you can run into a 2 valve American Heritage horns (bugles) made by Zig Kanstul for Benge in the mid-70s. They really played well. After those Zig went to King, and then of course began his own Kanstul line - still the best instruments for moving music. Marine D&B corps uses Kanstul 2 valve bugles still. If you ever find yourself into the whole bugle/DCi thing, check out the Buglers' Hall of Fame Facebook page - someone on this or one of Trent Hamilton's youtube posts, mentioned Ken Norman on Facebook - another amazing resource. Seeing how DCI evolved, literally from boy scout bands to the finest music in motion on the planet, is quite a trip. Thanks for doing the exploring. The more young people know about the activity, the better its chances of thriving.

[@raymondfallon7429]

@@SamuelPlaysBrass Samuel, I know that this bugle stuff is just a passing thing for you, and that your focus is the brass family in general, but if you're ever actually interested in the oddities of bugle lore, and have access to instruments, check out the horns made by a Canadian company, Whalley Royce, during the late 60s, particularly the mellophones. Mellophones, which although they were an alto instrument, were forced by the American Legion and VFW (who mandated these things prior to DCI) to be keyed in G, just like the soprano (trumpet) and baritone/euphonium/contrabass (tuba) instruments. It made for a funky midrange. The Whalley Royce mellos were even less stable with respect to tuning than the rest. If you ever have the desire to take a historical plunge, take a listen to the NY Kingsmen (Bronx NY) from 66 or 67. Unbelievable players, but the sounds of the instruments will... well... I'll let you decide. The Whalley Royce horns were also used by the St Joseph Patron Cadets from Brooklyn, another group of terrific players - perhaps the best ever baritone player in drum corps played with that group - about the same years 66 or 67. I'm going to stop annoying you now. Prehistoric drum corps isn't necessarily as much fun for young people as it is for cavemen, but being a student of brass instruments, I thought you might be interested at least a little in the plumbing parts we played on back then. I'm out - won't bother you further. Keep enriching the field of brass knowledge.

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Thanks again for the info! Although I'm not very well-versed in the lore of it all, the history of drum corps is fascinating to me.

[@sondrarichmond1859]

Still play on one without any problem in Caballeros Alumni corps.

[@ralphgeigner5497]

My brother and played with the Kenosha, WI Kingsmen for many years, back then bugles used a slide setup or rotor and 1 valve those were out best of times, the 60's era. There use to be 100's of corps back then.

[@samsignorelli]

Actually, the 2 valved G bugles were all in treble clef, so the notes you could not play were those needing a 3rd valve in or below the staff...C#, D, Eb, and Ab. For Ab above the staff it was 1st valve and push the 1st valve tuning slide all the way in. The low range limitations were more of an issue for the baris, euphs, and contras...the mids and sopranos generally played above mid staff, where the fingerings weren't an issue. (I played in the era with 84 Blue Devils)

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Thanks for the comment! Good insight-- I really think you need a low written G on an instrument like a contra. It's a shame drum corps had so many restrictions in the days of these beautiful G horns.

[@samsignorelli]

@@SamuelPlaysBrass We were able to play around it...the tymps in the pit might get a note that HAD to be low but which the brass could not play. And really, if you watch any top DCI corps from the 80s and 90s, you see that the 4 missing notes weren't really an issue...sometimes you just picked a key that minimized them. When three-valved G horns started appearing in 1990, you now had those 4 notes, which made arranging easier....but everything was still treble clef G.

[@sbyrstall]

Don't forget that the lower voices also used the pedal tones (not in performance, but in warmups). The two valves gave us some of the most memorable shows also. Today's shows are quite forgettable.

[@njmaugbill]

@@SamuelPlaysBrass The Good DCI arrangers got around those restrictions.....Check out 71 Argonne rebels!

[@marial8235]

Those things are powerful. I marched with a horn line of 28-30 bugles. We had a large drumline, but in parades I could barely hear the six/seven snares, 4 quads, 5 bds because of the bugles.

[@guitarmansegovia]

I just added a Dynasty II baritone bugle to my brass collection, and it’s giving my arms quite the workout!

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

I can imagine. Those old DCI horns with the heavier metal really tire you out if you hold them long enough at the expected bell angle!

[@TheJetto200]

This was great I've been waiting for this kinda video

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Glad to hear! I want to review a soprano bugle sometime as well

[@holton345]

Six years later and here I stumble upon this video, If you are receiving comments for something this old, here is some info regarding these instruments from an old DCI vet from the early 1980s. The weird, reversed trigger on 1st is for the **written** Ab/G# one ledger line above the TC staff. All bugles back then worked like in a British brass band, reading TC parts. The bugles - of course - all read G treble clef. So once you dig out of the low register the only missing note is that Ab above the staff, normally rendered 23, but on G bugles it was 1st, which is heinously flat. On the piston/rotor bugles you had to lip it up, which sucked. With the introduction of the 2-piston horns (starting in 1977 or so) they added this long, backyard-sprung trigger. The pesky Ab because 1st + the trigger in all the way. You could also pull in a little bit to fix the normally flat 4th line 1st valve D. It was very handy.

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Thanks for the comment! In the six years since posting I realized that to most likely be the case, but glad to have it confirmed by someone with firsthand field experience.

[@mylesanderson5864]

2nd suite in F?

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

I don’t know any G bugle literature, and I’m awful at G transposition, so I just went with the first euphonium excerpt I thought off

[@charlesgerlach7059]

Played you can hit the low A lip it down. :). played a 2 valve Olds Bari 76-77 with the 21st Lancers of Norwood MA, joined the Boston Crusaders fall of 77-79. lead bari. grew up on valve rotor soprano from 68-74 then switched to Bari valve rotor. nothing like the G Bugle Sound

[@tristanrush5526]

I wouldn't classify it as a euphonium. It is very cool though.

[@aidentrinidad4398]

That part of second suite was my audition piece for hawaii youth symphony lol nice tone

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Thanks haha it's a fun piece

[@SuperJxl]

this got recommended to me, i watched it, i then watched something else and then it got recommended to me again.

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Interesting. KZbin seems dead-set on only promoting videos of mine that are 4+ years old or uploaded in the YT Shorts format.

[@njmaugbill]

There is and was nothing like 24-30 Baritones in a Great Drumcorps hornline! (Even with 2 valves like this one!)

[@robinblankenship8611]

There is a thumb slide to help hit notes that you are missing.

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

The thumb slide only corrects intonation. It’s not nearly long enough to actually change pitches.

[@sceu25]

The only thing it helps with is pushing the Ab (Concert Eb) in tune.

[@bun-bun5623]

This is a euphonium judging by how big it is and how conical it gets but nice review i like your tone

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Yes, I'd never heard much about euphonium bugles, but the tone of this instrument is definitely more euphonium-ish than a baritone. Thanks for the comment!

[@bacbariboscru3590]

@@SamuelPlaysBrass it is a baritone. big horn tho, larger than the king k-70. BUT not a euph

[@sceu25]

Euphonium bugles would be a bit bigger than that and would sound warmer.

[@Evermore2017]

Good player

[@lh1702]

Does anyone have any idea what kind of mouthpiece a baritone bugle in g takes. I joined a drum corps that still uses g instruments and my Bb baritone mouthpiece works but doesn’t feel right in the instrument.

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

I believe these take small shank trombone/baritone mouthpieces but they do best with a larger size like a Bach 5G, Schilke 51D, or Wick 4AY.

[@rylandcook5301]

upvote for second suite

[@PureAlto]

It's not a euphonium; it's a BUGLE. And it is a baritone bugle. The "baritone" label of the baritone bugle specifies its range. Baritone horns and Euphoniums are HORNS, not bugles.

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Different sources use or avoid using the term "euphonium bugle," but it seems most agree with you that a conical bugle with a euphonium-like bell profile is still called a baritone bugle due to its register. Thanks for the info.

[@svbarryduckworth628]

We called them Euphoniums in the Madison Scouts back in the 80's, and so did all the other corps that used them. The conical bore of the euphos made a much richer and sweet sound -adding to the low brass choir. We marched 16 Baritones and 6 Euphoniums, along with 8-10 Contras and 4-6 french horns depending on the year if memory serves. We had a handful of mellophones and a stack of sopranos but nobody really cares about them anyhow. The mid and low brass all pitched in G is what made the strong full drum corps sound that has been lost in modern post-Drum Corps DCI B-flat marching bands. Even back then the high brass was just frosting on top.

[@Mricecreamman12]

Crank up!

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Haha, I really wish I still had access to this horn now that I can actually put some air into the thing and come closer to "cranking!"

[@MultiTonyramos]

bom

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

gracias

[@jonathanmills7992]

Which part does it play and the clef

[@rescue270]

This would play in the bass-baritone line and in treble clef with G transposed to read like C. G was commonly called "Bugle C."

[@rudychavira5558]

What do you think about a Ludwig single valve baritone bugle Thanks.

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

The trouble with one and two valve bugles is that they do not have a fully chromatic lower register and don’t really function as “instruments” in the fully fledged sense. You can’t play typical solo repertoire on them or use them in most ensembles. It’s not worth buying except as a collector’s item

[@rudychavira5558]

@@SamuelPlaysBrass samuel on youtube I've heard some pretty good sounds out of single valve? I'm not in a band , I'm just learning to play, what do you thing about the Ludwig

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

@@rudychavira5558 I've never tried an instrument by the Ludwig brand, sorry.

[@rescue270]

I have a very old, worn-out Gretsch G-D single valve tenor-baritone field bugle. The single-valved horns were called "tenor-baritones," while the two-valved horns were "bass-baritones." I can play a surprising number of tunes on it. The higher you go in pitch, the more notes you can play. It takes a lot more wind to play it than my trombone or my baritone. Probably because it's so worn out.

[@yungtrae2763]

damn how much would something like this cost? also your videos are amazing keep it up fam

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Thanks for the comment! I have no idea how much it would cost, but at this level of quality, probably a small fortune (I had to tape up the water keys because the corks were gone though haha)

[@armynurseboy]

nowadays? Bari and Euph G bugles go for like $500 or so on ebay. No one uses them anymore, so they aren't really very valuable on the secondary market.

[@mcgransazer]

Three hundred bucks. This is an Olds Ultratone 2, which is probably the best two valve available.

[@jessebrook1688]

The thing about bugles is that they are usually made to be beaten up. That's why they are hard-wearing nickel plated instead of silver. That's why they have large braces for the size of instrument that they are. That's why the brass is heavier-gauge. But that means that they are also made cheaply, in most cases. Triggers are not standard equipment on any of them. You don't usually get more than 1 water key, if you get that. These don't get made out of rose brass or gold brass or anything but nickel. Much like marching instruments, the extras would just be more things to break in a marching season. Marching trumpet: $700. G soprano bugle: $500.

[@hunteralexander9791]

@@mcgransazer actually this looks like it may be a dynasty II deg euphonium. Saw one today in a Music Store and did some research.

[@hitorimellow]

0:37 just play the scale 1 octave up.

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Well, sure, but I certainly prefer to have access to a fully chromatic range

[@hitorimellow]

@@SamuelPlaysBrass Oh

[@hitorimellow]

@@SamuelPlaysBrass eh same. I do a lot of Bb and F chromatic scales 2 octaves

[@megastarwarsrocks99]

This one time at band camp

[@BruceTheSillyGoose]

how do you play down into bass tuba range with that thing?

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

This instrument has a very stable pedal harmonic, which allows me to play an octave lower than the standard low G, F#, F, and E. Sadly only those four notes are available due to the horn only having two valves, but a compensating four valve euphonium can play the whole range of the bass or contrabass tuba, though perhaps not quite as well as a tuba itself.

[@BruceTheSillyGoose]

@@SamuelPlaysBrass thank you for the explanation. do tenor and bass tubas also have a stable pedal harmonic?

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

@@BruceTheSillyGoose Sure thing! All brass instruments have a pedal harmonic. For trumpets and small bore trombones those pedal harmonics are unstable and often out of tune, but the more conical instruments such as euphoniums and all forms of tubas have pedal harmonics that sit well on the instrument. I and many others struggle to play pedal tones on the tuba because they are so low and take so much air, but the pedal harmonic is still similar in tone quality to the rest of the instrument's range, whereas with a cylindrical instrument like a trumpet the pedals will sound blatty and uncontrolled.

[@BruceTheSillyGoose]

@@SamuelPlaysBrass ah, i had no idea the conical bore would help here. that is an interesting physical phenomenon. are the conical pedal tones keyed analogous to the normal tones or are they some kind of harmonic series open-key?

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

@@BruceTheSillyGoose I'm not sure I understand your question properly, but the pedal harmonic is always an octave below the instrument's "first harmonic." So for a euphonium, that's Bb2, or the standard "low Bb," and the pedal harmonic is Bb1. Similarly, the standard low F for an F tuba is F2, and its pedal harmonic is F1.

You look like the sanderson sisters

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

I’ve heard many comparisons of whom people think I look like, but this is by far the strangest.

[@saragonzales7553]

Someone listed this as a trombonium

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Interesting-to my knowledge a trombonium is shaped more like a very narrow baritone horn.

[@anne-mariegormandoyle6378]

you meed to play with your top lip more

[@hunteralexander9791]

I wouldn’t say a lot more, since he already has a fantastic sound but he could definitely move it up a bit

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Thanks to both of you folks for the comments. My bad for the late response. After getting the braces off I stopped playing low brass and underwent a massive re-working of the trumpet embouchure. I couldn't play at all on the old embouchure without my braces. As for the low brass chops, I lost everything and pretty much gave up. However, now that my trumpet chops have developed back to how they were before the shift I've noodled a bit on low brass and find that I use more top lip, and though my range is awful (I cap out around F above the staff), my tone is better than before, despite not having practiced. Wish I'd known the benefits of the top lip back when I actually played trombone.

[@mcgransazer]

Everyone has different physiology. You can't judge an embouchure by looks.

[@xreaacts2010]

Song at 1:15?

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

It’s the euph solo from Holst’s Second Suite in F (1st movement)

[@xreaacts2010]

Samuel Plays Brass that song sounded really familiar and I remember hearing at a band concert

[@mediocreman2]

Olden days? What the hell dude? It wasn't THAT long ago. The guy that played and marched that horn probably worked harder in one season than you will ever work in your life.

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

Okay, but honest question: why so salty?

[@mediocreman2]

@@SamuelPlaysBrass Haha sorry. But when you criticize the very things that have provided you with what you currently have, you end up being a bit hypocritical. Things don't always improve with time.

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

@@mediocreman2 Let's make it clear that I was not in any way criticizing drum corps as an establishment nor the people who participate. I respect the people who bust their behinds endlessly to contribute to the art form. The phrase "olden days" was very simply a bit of dry humor and nothing more, as now regulations on three-valve Bb instruments have been lifted.

[@jakgff5885]

20 years ago

[@leaf4836]

@@mediocreman2 this video had no criticism at all

[@jonathanmills7992]

I need your mail please for a lil lesson