Ukraine War: Wrong Lessons

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

Be sure to check out my current T-Shirt campaign with the Cat Person Tiger & Panther and some other limited editions: everpress.com/mhv

[@typxxilps]

basically: every lesson can be wrong cause it depends - for example the phone on the battlefield question The Ukraine were able to use and enable the western media and yt world to improve the boost / support inside western populations which has become important

[@russwoodward8251]

A great discussion, very timely. Thanks, I really like it when 2 creators I subscribe to, share a topic. Really great.

[@IamOutOfNames]

You keep uploading right when it's my bedtime. Why you keep doing this to me?

[@SirAntoniousBlock]

Jamming 30:18 Haven't you seen the videos of Ukrainians capturing enemy drones with jamming antenna?

[@readhistory2023]

The US Navy in conjunction with DoD came up with hand held EMP guns in order to take out Russian subs in Puget Sound. The Russian liked to trail the Trident back to their base and because they were were nuclear subs the US could only watch. Sinking a nuclear sub in the 3rd highest trafficked sea lane/fishing grounds in the US would be counter productive to the US economy so they came up with the Emp gun as teh solution to take out the Russian subs. I have no idea if it was every used for that function. The EMP handgun's advantage over a normal EMP was that it's EMP was semi-directional vs 360 degrees. It's 40 year old tech so I have to assume the EMP handgun has gotten smaller since then.

[@llamallama1509]

Two military experts just came 0.1mm away from a conversation about Star Trek DS9. Love it!

[@julianshepherd2038]

Military experts ! I thought it was the worst gay prawn I'd ever seen.

[@cleanerben9636]

@@julianshepherd2038 Now I can imagine the whole vid playing with smooth Jazz in the background lol

[@englishfabric]

#thatjusthappened

[@Erik-ou3tl]

Oi! Chieftain! Your Nerd is showing! :P

[@MisterW0lfe]

I feel sorry for the Jem'Hadar (Ruzzians)

[@crabyman3555]

Ukraine's logistics are helped by the fact that it is directly connected with Poland and thus the entire EU.......they can have foreign specialists and ''helpers'' just across the Polish border helping them sort out and fix all those million different vehicles and what not. It's a unique advantage most armies will never have, the entire ''Europe'' has their back

[@timmycrockett3348]

wars not really ukraine vs russia its more like europe va russia

[@neilwilson5785]

And that Russia is not the USSR. It is a small economy in comparison.

[@SirAntoniousBlock]

This war is more similar to WW1 than WW2 in more ways than one, firstly there is the aspect that because of the development of extremely effective anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons tanks and aircraft have been pushed aside and artillery is once again queen of the battlefield and the infantryman king, and secondly just like WW1 each sides arms production is out of reach of the other.

[@thomascolbert2687]

I'll bet they're helping with the Russian POW'S, as well.

[@tarickw]

I would be very suprised if our 'helpers', 'contractors' or 'vendors' are not operating on ukraininan territory

[@rikulappi9664]

As a Finn the question "Are you ready to fight for your country?" equals "Are you ready to fight against someone who kills Finns in Finland?". We have a defence force. Even career soldiers can decline to serve abroad! This kind of explains the world record level eagerness to personnaly take part in defence.

[@datadavis]

Oh come on, you hakkapelles are not known from backing down from a fight💪

[@p_serdiuk]

Yet the legacy of Lauri Törni should remain somewhere, right? :P

[@CS-zn6pp]

@@p_serdiuk he loved war so much he changed nationalities 3 times to keep fighting.

[@RobBCactive]

That can become less black/white, for instance after Saddam Hussein's Kuwait invasion doing nothing would have allowed further conquest of oil production. There was a compelling strategic need to defend and then defeat the aggression.

[@nirfz]

The thing Bernhard mentioned with austria is also rooted in the current generations not having wittnessed any conflict anywhere close to austria. Neither armed not unarmed, and no potential threat like you have with your easter neighbour I did my service 22 years ago so more in the timeframe like Bernhard did his. And i am old enough to remember the wars that ended Yugoslavia. Before that, at the start of the 90's our population was "comfortable" and few thought they would ever want to fight for austria too. Then the war came to the border, houses on our side of the border got bullet holes, our tanks were standing at the border armed and ready and AAA was dug in around the airports and airbases. (first time i saw live AAA guns in a farming field outside of our village.) I may only have been in my early teens, but i remember how fast that unfolded, and how big suddenly the support for our armed forces and soldiers was. Even the green party people who advocated for giving up the army and "hated on soldiers" as we would say today suddenly swalowed their pride and went to the soldiers and thanked them for their service. That's how fast the sentiment can change. That mood went to sleep again pretty fast afterwards "when we were surrounded by friends" again. Still, in my generation some remembered when we started our service. The current gen was born way later. And so they can't even imagine any of our neighbouring countries to be in a conflict with us. (Same was true with Yugoslavia, but people seldom learn from history) The other thing is what people learn in school about war and armed conflicts here. You have to remember that Austria was on the loosing side of both of the last armed conflicts our people took part that people know of. Nobody learns about battles or fights of WW1 and WW2, what we learn about are the atrocities of our side. So pupils learn: "we lost, we did bad things" and unconsciencely we also learn that we "are bad at fighting" as "we lost every war we were in" (This goes even further, if young people go on the internet and look at all the historical battle depiction channels, there's almost entirely battles the austrians/Habsburg armies lost depicted, so this bias increases even more. Although if they lost verything, they wouldn't have stayed in power for several hundred years ;-) ) The only fights we learn about that our side won are the 2 sieges of vienna. And with one of them the internet says the poles won it. (While incredibly important for the fight, they were basically one third of the front that hit the ottomans and kicked them out. The planning, the direction that was chosen and the other 2/3rds of the fighting force who achieved the same thing as the winged husars are rarely mentioned. Because of him being the highest ranking person, the polish king officially had the command "on paper" so he and his troops get the fame.)

[@MsZeeZed]

30:45 - the Serbians shot “one” stealth fighter-bomber down, as Chieftain said they’d flown the same mission route multiple times. The F-117 was radar invisible except when on an attack run over its target with its bomb-bay open. The SAM commander broke SOP to get missile lock based on real-time intelligence that this flight was operating without its escorts due to bad weather. These Prowler escorts usually provided SAM suppression, jamming & threat detection for the F-117. Its similar to the reports of cruise missiles downed by Manpads in Ukraine. Its perfectly feasible, but only if you can predict exactly when & where the target will be coming and are prepared.

[@majungasaurusaaaa]

What do americans call "fighter-bombers"? The F-117 was designated such deliberately for coldwar disinformation purpose. And it has zero air to air capability, not even defensive. It's a stealthy light bomber.

[@bruceparr1678]

The F117 has been withdrawn from service because it has become a target drone.

[@thedeathwobblechannel6539]

F117 "retired" because that project and it's technology and its benefits had ran its course.

[@blackcountryme]

At the time there was a brag about the Russians providing newer radar systems to allow the aircraft to be shot down... but that was at the time.

[@himoffthequakeroatbox4320]

As I said at the time, a blind man with a machine gun can still shoot you.

[@LewisRenovation]

Hearing Bernard pronounce the Iroquois word Ticonderoga is worth watching by itself. Great video guys!!

[@Cdre_Satori]

Is that native pronounciation? I just thought Bernard mispronounced it and Chieftain went with his pronunciation. TIL

[@ssgtmole8610]

@@Cdre_Satori That is not how I've heard it pronounced. There are several guides on the web. Bernard does his best, so I take it in stride - remembering that some deutsch speakers in his audience are kibitzing that he doesn't use that language in his videos, and that arguing proper engrish prononsiatuin is a lost cause. I worked out the reference from my limited knowledge of modern american navy cruiser class names, and my own wargaming experience (not as detailed as Nick's with Harpoon). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ticonderoga_(CG-47)

[@LewisRenovation]

@@Cdre_Satori Tie - con - da - roga in American. Of course I have no idea how the Iroquois would have said it 400 years ago.

[@MrCantStopTheRobot]

Look up the videos of German speakers saying "squirrel" for the first time.

[@activatekruger446]

Time stamp or it didn’t happen

[@djd8305]

The very first shot - Bernhardt soo enthusiastic and Germanic - Nick so laid back and Oirish, made me smile. This video is fantastic proof that collaborations between different, but equally expert and charismatic, fellahs are a force multiplier. We learn as they do too.

[@wsollers1]

The only thing that this war highlighted was that armies that do not train in a combined arms manner cannot engage effectively in a combined arms strategy. Training and logistics matter.

[@tcurtisjohnson]

I love that not only did both of you recall the exact same DS9 scene, it turned out to be the one I thought it would be as soon as "Star Trek" was mentioned in that context. Just goes to show that good content is good content, and good content gets remembered! Keep it up, both Bernhard and Nick; the world can use all the good content it can get, and yours is among the best.

[@davebauman4991]

16:30 'Quark gives Nog some advice about humans' ep.158. "...put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly intelligent wonderful people will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon."---Quark

[@IanGerritsen]

Quark and Garrak both had some amazing commentary in DS9. I used to be a TNG boy but DS9 is just superb in a lot of the writing. Quarks monologue about reminding humans of themselves was another good one.

[@builder396]

Even his opinion about the New Trek series is spot on. It flipped the whole philosophy so far on its head, its insanity to consider it the same franchise. Make your case for Lower Decks, Prodigy or even Strange New Worlds if you want, but Picard and Discovery are completely devoid of anything Trek, especially social commentary. The only thing better than the quote from AR-558 is the dialog between Quark and Garak about root beer.

[@davidmurphy8190]

Thanks!

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

Thank you!

[@FulkNerraIII]

The fact you bought up a DS9 reference and Chieftain knew exactly what you were talking about made my day. I thought Chieftain was sitting there clueless and confused, but nope he even knew which character said it. As a huge DS9 fan and a military history buff it was cool to seem the crossover.

[@MI-wc6nk]

Regarding "smartphone has no place on battlefield" - this reminded me of the "Security, Usability, Functionality" triangle, in which you can't reach one without sacrificing somewhat the other/s. Interesting discussion, thank you for the work.

[@pointlesspublishing5351]

Civdiv does it right. He goproed his time in Ukraine and showed the vids/pics WEEKS later, not HOURS with a simcard in his phone.

[@0thPAg]

It's also laughable how they're saying Ukraine is winning propaganda war bc Russians don't have phones, which is untrue because their telegraph channels are full of phone videos. Maybe they should consider the massive deplatforming effort on part of the American empire. These days there are far more videos of ZALA Lancet blowing up UA hardware but nobody ever talks about it in the West. Ukraine is in very dire need of a large number of modern point defense vehicles, probably like .5 per km of the front to account for downtime. But does the west even have anything good apart from the Otomatic that doesn't cost more to fire than the target is worth ?

[@0thPAg]

Lol, the Otomatic is just a prototype, but why isn't Ukraine showing off those snazzy Rheinmetall 35mm guns killing drones and we instead have grainy videos of Lancets diving into S-300 and such.

[@whybndsu]

@@0thPAg Because Ukraine doesnt have the 35mm guided anti aircraft weapons. It has older 35mm SPAAG. So far Ukraine has been shooting down majority of the slow kamikazee drones but some will get through. It also cannot cover the entire country. Lastly those suicide drones filmed themselves diving into a fucking inflatable/wood decoy. Take that as you will

[@MrCantStopTheRobot]

A 1SG in my former unit was irritated, because he had to send a soldier off to CPOF ("Command Post of the Future") training, despite the company being right in the middle of Gunnery qualification. He stood up outside his M113 and held up his smartphone, proclaiming, *"THIS* WILL BE THE COMMAND POST OF THE FUTURE."

[@rokuth]

13:35 to 14:00 = I had a friend that served in the US Army just after WW2. He ended up in Germany. He commented that the German soldiers could walk in lockstep with very little training, like it was 2nd nature to them. US Army soldiers however had difficulty to do the same. When you mentioned the Peruvian Army having difficulty marching in lockstep, that memory came back to me.

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

Yeah, meanwhile with dancing salsa it is the other way.

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized win some, lose some

[@neoprofin]

At least in my experience, some of the problem is that NCO's that become instructors can't keep rhythm either. Watch 1981's "Stripes" with Bill Murray. The song "Doo Wah Diddy" is absolutely correct marching cadence. Just like "Staying Alive" is ironically the correct pace for chest compressions when performing CPR.

[@buddermonger2000]

@@neoprofin Need to keep that one in my head

[@mbaxter22]

Lovers not fighters lol.

[@len2063]

The drones is like the first aircraft in WWI. First scouting then caring amountions. Then specialisation and countermeasurements.

[@WhatIsSanity]

Right. Drones will find their niche, big or small.

[@danielomar9712]

And then it becomes AliBaba drones dropping murder machines I LOVE it !

[@mensch1066]

I suppose one could relate Ukraine's logistics to your "Loot Force One" video about the Wehrmacht in 1941. In both cases there is a ridiculous profusion of foreign models of equipment, but Ukraine is not advancing deep into enemy territory, and it seems confident that when current units are expended, there will be new models to replace them. A Wehrmacht unit with French trucks in 1941 driving through Smolensk did not have that luxury.

[@steffenb.jrgensen2014]

The ukranian/German logistics model worked fairly well because they only had/have to work across a land border relatively nearby. US logistics usually have to work across an ocean. That multiplies the needs for simplification and standardisation

[@Argentvs]

I would bet on that. You are running out of men too, high desertion rate and 20% of the country's population left. Funny enough more than half escaped to Russia.

[@lugerun]

@@steffenb.jrgensen2014 As far as i remember german logistics was trash and one of their downfalls.

[@steffenb.jrgensen2014]

@@lugerun I'll claim that it worked very fine with the job it had - supplying armies over land (railway) and with a central position. That is a very different situation compared to the US which makes it close to meaningless to compare US and German logistics. Pretty consistently the Wehrmacht had a better supply distribution efficiency than the Red Army and even in late war the Germans could much faster move large troop formations from one front in Europe to another than the (w)allies - and even to a large degree unseen. Only when allied fighterpombers in 1945 for serious started to strafe anything moving in Germany did the German railway based system start to fail for serious. But even though German war production increased until 1944 (when strategic supplies were cut off by allied (Soviet) boots on the ground) it was a poor comfort as the allied (US) production increased many times more (which is industrial capacity, not logistic). IOW the German problems wasn't their logistic system, that worked OK, their problem was the US logistical system actually succeeding in sending huge amounts of war materiel across oceans. But even with this fine system the allies couldn't keep the entire front in NW Europe in 1944/45 supplied to offensive operations but had to focus.

[@eddiecharles6457]

Awesome seeing 2 experts of this calibre in one video and the reference of Quark talking to Nogg about humans just made it even more profound.

[@cleanerben9636]

The drone reminds me of that time where Nicholas mentioned that some tank crews requested a camera on the end of the barrel to peak around corners with and that this was rejected because it reduced operational mobility; the tankers would spend too much time checking corners than going towords their objective. Could this be the same for relying or overusing drones? Infantry just sitting around waiting for the drone guy to maybe spot something?

[@mcsmash4905]

basicaly over cautious

[@jebise1126]

i think not because not all infantry got drones but special operators only. i think its so called pyramid that was mentioned. drones have cameras and produce a lot of videos and those videos are send around. people said that are not even near enough drones to cover all anyway.

[@cleanerben9636]

@@jebise1126 Fair enough

[@michaelguerin56]

That was the RTR testing an experimental setup with multiple cameras, if I recall correctly. I believe that the Chieftain learned about it via a conversation with an RTR officer.

[@512TheWolf512]

Only a moron sends infantry forward to die blindly. If not drones, something else would've provided Intel for troops to advance properly.

[@katfrog98]

Each of you are great on your own, but what a treat it is whenever you are together! Thank you. Yes, the more things change the more they remain the same.

[@Tornadocholo]

Always refreshing to see these two giants collab, thanks for the video, good topics:)

[@gerthddyn]

I love that you brought up Harpoon. The original was one of my favorite games when I was a kid.

[@Zencer45]

The fact you both like (or atleast watched) Star Trek is very cool. I did not expect a DS9 reference in a video titled about Ukraine

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

Neither did we. :)

[@momo9594]

So nice to see you guys together.

[@84erElessar]

What a pearl of a video! Thank you both for this 👍

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@fredorman2429]

It’s so good to listen to people who know their subject.

[@GRWiley]

He's referring to the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode entitled "The Siege of AR-558." Loved how The Chieftain immediately knew the episode.

[@runi5413]

Darmok and Jalad, at Tanagra.

[@shaqm0bile]

Temba, his arms wide.@@runi5413

[@quauhtliauva1705]

Holy Crap! The Chieftain is everywhere! Amazing my dude, "keep fing that chicken". 👍 But I'm 100% with you, I've been wondering since early summer how the hell the Ukrainian military, has been managing to cope with all the logistic of this war. Is just mesmerizing to think about it and definitely a case study for future conflicts.

Nice Video. Interesting to see you two together.

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

Thanks! 😃

[@johanmetreus1268]

I should have known you are in the proper community given your excellent videos on PzH 2000 :)

@@johanmetreus1268 military history Visualized, the chieftain and military aviation history were certainly Part of the motivation for me to start a channel myself. But they are of course still by far on another Level

[@johanmetreus1268]

@ Well, they have had a few years of practice. Still, the explanation of true MRSI and its application in batteries is something I have not heard from anywhere else, so keep up the good work!

[@katamarankatamaranovich9986]

Terror bombing does not evoke a thought: "We should probably surrender" or "We can't possibly win this" It evokes the following thoughts: "Imagine if they were in control here and could do whatever they wanted"; "If they capture us, they would use more efficient and silent ways to kill us. Nobody would ever know, nobody would be punished"; "The ducktape and plastic bag is a worse way to go"; And the last ones that take hold in your head after several weeks or month: "Here goes another one, back to doing whatever I was doing" and "If it hits - it hits" (йобне то йобне). Speaking from experience, even close calls do not change that. The last two are more or less universal to most people here.

[@ifv2089]

Japan entered the chat

[@katamarankatamaranovich9986]

@@ifv2089 I'd say there were two reasons for Japanese surrender. Atomic bombs, sure but they were not as devastating as firebombing campaign before it. The second one is the destruction of Quantum Army by the Soviets that happened at the same time. Before those two events the Japanese held the hope that if they were able to bleed out Americans landing on their home islands, they would be able to get themselves into negotiations and peace treaty. When their most powerful army collapsed and americans made clear they have more than one bomb and can do atomic bombings regularly Japanese realized that they will not be able to fight off the invasion of two superpowers. Eventually they got to keep the Emperor and there was no splitting into occupation areas, like in Germany, which were some of their goals with the whole bleeding out the americans thing.

[@ifv2089]

@@katamarankatamaranovich9986yeah the firebombings were fearce, an example of where bombings worked.. took a few nukes as well

[@JoseReyes-jo7tc]

@@ifv2089 Well kind of the fire bombings didn’t really affect Japanese morale, neither did the two nukes. Imperial Japan was going to fight to the bitter end even if the entire country was nuked. What ended the war was several factors that included the nukes and Soviets combining with the Emperor directly intervening and surrendering. Bombing has a history of not working and if it did work it was not the main reason, usually it was something along the lines of military defeat or starvation.

[@ifv2089]

@@JoseReyes-jo7tc i was always under the impresion this was one of the few terror bombings that delivered its intended effects, very intresting thanks, excited to look into this in more depth now.

[@shooster5884]

I know nothing about military matters but one thing I have learned from the war in Ukraine so far is that regardless of what weapons you have, a well trained, tactically smart army, well backed up by a well coordinated efficient and well organized supply system and civilian organization and high morale and determination and focus in both... is what matters most.

[@Mortablunt]

That can't be Ukraine, not with what's been coming from Telegram for a long time.

[@iDEATH]

Really interesting discussion off that great first question. I think I commented on The Chieftain's channel somewhere when this war started that the most fascinating part for us armchair general types would be the years of postmortem analysis once it's all over. I'm far from an expert myself, but I love this sort of postulating and hypothesising.

[@davidcorriveau8615]

Logistics, Logistics, Logistics...from Caesar to Battlestar Galactica an immutable that never changes.

[@polarvortex3294]

Logistics are a bit like the blood supply in the body.

[@rolf-joachimschroder917]

On the subject of cameras on the battlefield, Ukrainian soldiers often use action cams on their helmets or protective vests. Withstands more, can be difficult or impossible to target due to WLAN or Bluetooth radio range

[@SillyGit]

Concerning POWs, the logistical burden is not as big as you might think, mainly because most of them go back to Russia eventually - prisoners exchange are rather frequent (once a month, sometimes twice a month). Hell, some people here even stopped calling them prisoners of war, instead they are referred as simply "exchange fund".

[@boomer955]

Mortality rate for the Russian POWs is very high. A significant number of them is killed or tortured to death. A few days ago about 10 Russian POWs were lined up and shot. There is plenty of information on the internet about their treatment at the hands of the Ukrainians. If you watch the exchange footage the Ukrainian POWS are well fed and in good conditions, the Russian POWs are malnourished and many of them can barely walk from all the torture. Ukraine is on par with ISIS when it comes to treatment of POWs.

[@SillyGit]

@@boomer955 The internet is a funny thing, because everything you just said, I see the exact opposite of it. But sure, feel free to believe that you see only the "truth".

[@boomer955]

@@SillyGit Show me a video of Ukrainian POWs executed

[@SillyGit]

@@boomer955 Show me a video of Russian POW "lined up and executed" first.

[@The_Viscount]

There was a report before the war started that talked about how many problems Moskva had in February. Aparently, she only had one working CWIS, half the bridge indicator lights weren't working, the interior radios were interfering with the radar, so different departments needed to rely on runners so long as the radar was on, a significant number of watertight doors were missing or stuck open, they had a severe lack of damage control (firefighting and emergency repair) equipment, and what they had was locked up because sailors kept stealing it to sell. So the ship probably had her radar off, she had one working gatling cannon and it had less than 180 degrees of coverage, and was hit. They immediately turn on the radar meaning that the engineering department can't tell the captain that they're flooding. They don't have the tools to stop the flooding or fires, and they can't close the doors to localize fire or flooding. Ship shouldn't have ever been in an active combat zone.

[@zipperpillow]

Ooops.

[@BM-bp7kp]

"That was Quark talking to Nog, DS9" = instant thumbs up. It feels so nice to know im in good company.

[@moors710]

As a weapons designer, I found the specs changing monthly would prevent us from on time delivery of systems.

[@KevinSmith-ys3mh]

And clearly so did the builder's of the NASA Constellation / SLS rocket program, finally on the way to the moon but daaaaammmmm - what a $$$ price payed for decades now to get off the pad! Especially for a system conceived as a quickie reuse of proven Shuttle bits! I'm sure a few masters and doctoral theses will be written on this mess of a project, even if it completely achieves all milestones. 😕🙄

[@glypnir]

So many things I could say. I don’t know how military drones communicate, but I know a little bit about communication. You can use either very directional communication, say a phased array or a parabolic antenna to a satellite or a ground or air based antenna. If you’re not actually in the directional beam, jamming and detection are very difficult. There are also a wide variety of spread spectrum techniques which can make it very hard to jam and detect signals unless you know the specific pattern to use, either the CDMA code or the frequency switching pattern. Or maybe both.

[@andrewatwood4711]

OMG you guys are F-ffing Star Trek nerds. That was the icing on the cake of the whole interview when you start quoting scenes from Star Trek to reference current events 😂🤣😂🤣💞 I love it I could listen to you guys talk all day very informative Qápla 😉

[@peterschmidt1900]

About Airmobile units: You forgot to mention/consider Mogadishu (Black Hawk Down) ... Lesson was: If the enemy starts shooting down your helicopters, trying the evacuate with more helicopters is maybe not the best solution, no matter how much air superiority you have, because the enemy starts to snowball.

[@emberfist8347]

That and the lessons we learned were that you need an armored backplate for soldiers and if you are fast-roping units in a in urban environment. Drop them on the building rooftops not the middle of the street where they are sitting ducks.

[@ricardokowalski1579]

There is also the british Paras in the Falklands. They did perform well, but also took high casualties

[@watcherzero5256]

@@ricardokowalski1579 That in part was due to the terrain they were being dropped on, boulder strewn with little vegetation. Lot of broken bones.

[@Seriona1]

The US basically learned that lesson and now it snowballed into the other side where they will not use helicopter at all if the shit was too thick. It just sucked it took two conflicts for the US to get that into their head. They said the RPG-7 couldn't bring down a helicopter and the Viet Cong did that against our Huey's and then the US said well that shouldn't work on modern Blackhawks and it worked again in Mog.

[@Prometheus7272]

@@ricardokowalski1579 They didn't actually parachute in though. The reason they took high casulties is because paras want to win engagements more than they want to live through them.

[@jankopransky2551]

Nice to hear that you're a fellow trekkie, Bernhard!

[@TurboHappyCar]

Great chat, thanks guys! 👍

[@schlawa]

Such a good video. You can allow yourself's a bar and some beer or expensive whiskey I don't mind and certainly have some available while listening on a Friday evening. ... and I fled Cologne for the start of Carnival ... :)

[@Leo137156]

Great discussion and good conclusions. Especially the one about the Russians learning and about the tank. You are so right Nick: no need to add anything IN the tank that does not help it do the job it was designed to do, especially another guy doing something unrelated to tank's mission. But also, Sun Zu said it long time ago: that wars must be short or you end up training your enemy. The American way of saying that is: the dumb ones die early in the war, the ones left are the ones which survived and usually smarter and quicker, otherwise they would already be dead. Thanks for the video.

[@DonRaynor]

My brother who is Active duty Tanker told me that The Panthers only good upgrade is the drone operator. In his (Tank commander) thought, every platoon should have one, it is better to have it in the tanks, than behind, as you're not always guaranteed your shadow actually is able to shadow.

[@tim1398]

That makes sense, just like planes have some EW and search radar capability so they are not completely dependent on AWCS and EW aircraft. Can't have your high-value assets naked.

[@ale434me]

I expect that role could extend to "mission planner" as the tank will moving into contact or in exploitation be looking for the safest and most covered approach (unless you think the enemy are covering the route with something heavy). #

[@ironstarofmordian7098]

In the near term, that's definitely the case. A four man crew with a drone operator instead of a loader (an auto loader is obviously doing the loading)wpuld be a serious edge. That's at least 2 drones flying for one platoon searching any terrain which can possibly hide enemy vehicles or infantry while the other 2 recharge and the operators rest. Add that in with company level recon drones, dismounted infantry platoons and their drones along with the infantry company's drones, with a good battle network, and you'll have an excellent system for recon and security.

[@sneakycactus8815]

joining in on the DS9 reference love! if the comment section is any indication, please do not refrain from star trek references in the future! we love it!

[@SteeGrav]

You two reveals yourself to be Trekkies! Live long and prosper!

[@jameslooker4791]

The logistics issue makes me think the weapons suffer more than the logisticians. I wouldn't be surprised if we learn after the war that some of these artillery systems were operational about 30-50% of the time because each breakdown would take weeks to fix.

[@w8stral]

The fact is they got very little NATO hardware compared to what was given of what they already had and were using. Russia helped out a lot as well...

[@PaulVerhoeven2]

If talking about PzH2000 and CAESAR, they are operational WAY less than 30% of time. If you believe the Ukrainians who actually use them (if you understand Ukrainian I can recommend a channel or two, I learned enough Ukrainian in the last 9 months just to understand the incredible military content they produce nowadays). They call even M109s (at least those few M109A3s and M109A4s they got, from Belgium and Netherlands by the way of Britain) unreliable and "delicate". And that is after using mainly 2S1s and 2S3s. This war has proven that there is a lot to be said about good old (ancient by now) Soviet tech made for real war, not to fill the pockets of private defense contractors.

[@davefranklin4136]

I really had to laugh at the "most secure computer is unplugged, in a safe, on a desert island, which makes the cyber security guys happy" line. When I was still working, I would repeatedly make the same comment: that the cyber security people are often more dangerous than the enemy, since if they have their way, none of us will be able to communicate with anyone else, in any way - even if we're both on the same air-gapped network! I AM so happy to be retired...

[@himoffthequakeroatbox4320]

I've had that conversation. "Stopping me doing my job is as much a security failure as allowing hackers in."

[@dmoore5120]

yea olde security vs convenience struggle ;-) ...

[@RobinTheBot]

And on the other hand, grunts hooking up their cell to download porn off a secured network, leaving USBs and sticky notes with their passwords on it, and otherwise assuming the enemy must be in the tent to get into an internet enabled computer.... The security guys have removed so many installations of Doom and other games from the wackiest places. Wouldn't shock me to learn someone got a game running on a Ballistic Missile computer.

[@Jcraft153]

Cyber guy: **why can't you just talk face to face, so much more secure**

[@Wailwulf]

Iran had a number of computerized machines, that were not connected to the internet (just the factory's building intra-net), hacked by a virus that had been imbedded in a few thousand USBs. This caused a massive reduction in the production in enriched uranium.

[@hansvonmannschaft9062]

Loved the entire video. The disclaimer at the beginning stating that *NO* Nick is *NOT RETIRED* was awesome. The Star-Trek discussion got me by surprise, and the conclusions were more than interesting. Moreover, no Nick, I don't think *anyone* could've gotten offended by your "rants", they weren't even rants, you were spot on, standing your ground, and with based arguments. Great vid and surprise Bern, and I just noticed how (no pun intended) time flew this year, because I haven't had the chance of beginning to read your Stuka book I got in March iirc! Oh did browse through it several times. Love it. Please write another one on another subject with that degree of depth. 😀 Ps. And don't look so serious in the back cover's photo the next time! 😀

[@TheChieftainsHatch]

In fairness, it seems that Bernhard edited out the bits that might have caused a tad more offense, which was nice of him.

[@J3AD]

I liked these type of videos, hope you guys do more like this from time to time.

[@martinpollak7039]

Very nice chat guys! You should do more collaborations. I already missed The Chieftain twice in Austria. :(

[@micumatrix]

Airdeployed troops: most special forces are deployed by air and are many times retreived same way. Its maybe a matter of size, because many spies since ww2 were often deployed successful by airdrop.

[@jackray1337]

A note on SIM cards. We already use a lot of phones with electronic SIMs (eSIM) instead of physical ones. We are integrating the system of having multiple eSIMS into one phone. Thank you for sharing this discussion.

[@IFarmBugs]

15:25 Idk maybe you're right but at this point I think a lot of people have become aware of how poorly European and especially German energy policy has been handled by the respective governing bodies.

[@F4Wildcat]

True, Germany and Belgium did piss poor energy policy and reactions to the crisis. And the biggest culprit is the liberalization of the european energy market by the liberal parties. They sold us out.

[@Mrstrangert392]

Why did they ever elect Angela Merkel. Anyone who prefers East Germany to West Germany has issues

[@pointlesspublishing5351]

Merkel stood for "stability." Old folks LOVE stability. Germany IS an old peoples society.

[@512TheWolf512]

merkel is a traitor and should be jailed. Literally thousands died directly because of her.

[@pamelajessup7931]

Germany was at least trying until *SOMEBODY* blew up their gas pipeline.

[@HereticalKitsune]

As a former logistics soldier I am always happy to hear more about it!

[@russwoodward8251]

I appreciate the discussion. Thank you.

[@JHorsti]

Just for the record, the Star Trek quote you were talking about is from Deep Space Nine S07E08 The Siege of AR-558. "Let me tell you something about Humans, Nephew. They’re a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holo-suites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people… will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don’t believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes."

[@JHorsti]

Also I'm glad we're all in agreement that Nu Trek fucking sucks.

[@SirAntoniousBlock]

Yep, Quark certainly has our number.

[@JHorsti]

@@SirAntoniousBlock Come to Quark's, Quark's is fun, come right now, don't walk - run!

[@SirAntoniousBlock]

@@JHorsti 😂 Dabo!

[@eskimo05w]

@ 29:20 I played Harpoon, the board game and computer game versions. Tom Clancy says that he used the board game version as technical reference when writing _Hunt for Red October._

[@charlesbruggmann7909]

On the subject of the diversity of donated weapons - we know a lot of repair/maintenance is being done close over the border from UE. Also, one wonders whether a few western technicians might not be taking ‘holidays’ in Ukraine - wearing jeans/t-shirt obviously.

[@karlr750]

Sort of … because, if I were a technician (which I'm not), I would prefer to take my "paid holiday" in Poland, Romania, Lithuania, or Estonia (etc.), instead of taking it in Ukraine (where I might be targeted by Russian artillery.) I think there may be a number of "paid holidays" in progress. I'm just quibbling about which side of the border they're occurring on.

[@markfryer9880]

Well given that Summer is gone, I hope that those guys have brought their winter clothes for their holiday.

[@tomhenry897]

More money in Ukraine

[@muttmankc]

@@karlr750 Correct. Per Outlaw Josey Wales- "Dyin' is a hell of a way to make a living".

[@websnail]

Was shortly before commenting about the „drone ships“ when you came up to autonomous steering yourself! There are some big research ongoing for onboard autonomous AI on systems.

[@knorpelmancer]

Great video, really enjoyed your short ramble about new Star Trek ;)

[@xela6349]

Chieftain saying that tank platoon/company commanders did fine commanding their own tank ignores that historically there have been command tank versions, sometimes even without the main weaponry, just so the commander could actually concentrate on the entire unit instead of his own tank. It should improve efficiency.

[@target844]

There is speculation that the small Ukrainian drone boats use Starlink for communication. There is a rectangular flat part sticking up on the rear with a similar look to the one Starlink use. Because it uses an electronic phased array antenna so the majority of the energy when you transmit will go up in the sky and you need something in the air in the right location to receive it. The transmission from space will be directional too, they will cover a larger area on the ground than just the intended receiver. So you could get a warning from it but it will not be when it is far away. Jamming is also a lot harder for directional satellite communication. An attacker that has full control of the system, can target an enemy ship with a dummy transmission. It could be on some or all of the time. At that point, the warning starts to be quite meaningless. The question in a major military conflict is would any satellite weapons be used and are there enough to take out enough of a system like Starlink. I suspect Starlink satellites are a lot cheaper to launch than any anti-satellite missles and can be produced and launched faster

[@watcherzero5256]

A Starlink sat beam has a diameter of 15 miles which is treated as an hexagonal cell, with each sat capable of forming 16 beams or cells in a honeycomb pattern, however the sat is constantly moving and so are the cells it projects with you being handed off to the next cell like when using a mobile phone, so in theory if your standing still your presence could potentially be detected in a 30 by 15 mile slice. However its likely a sniffer plane could pick up the scattered reflections of the transmissions and listen in upto a couple of hundred miles away.

[@xjax8519]

@@watcherzero5256 Ukraine Army dont used "Starlink" ! Realy you sink they stupid ??? They made "Duga radar" and know how it work ))) Dont be a fool !

[@williamhenry8914]

I love how you both lean forward together at the start, body language bromance :D

[@User-zo4yi]

great editing of the audio, so everyone is clearly understandable!

[@capt5656]

On logistics, i'd mention the coming up of tele-repair operations, it's how they are maintaining many of their systems on the ground atm. It'll also be one of those things that require post-war analysis to see how effective it was but considering the US Military has apparently expanded it from just an ad-hoc thing, it at least seems to be helpful for Ukraine right now.

[@truestefku]

Subscribed because of the DS9 reference. You guys are apparently not just military nerds, but are able to put this into the right context.

[@idrisddraig2]

2 Trekkies setting the world to rights. Live long and prosper....gentlemen!

[@Fulmir-]

I'm far from an expert on EWar, Electronic Coms, etc, but I do have a couple of points on the "Drone/Ewar in the tank" thing. This doesn't invalidate anything said in the video, I'm just pointing out that there are additional factors and concerns beyond those brought up. The biggest one is that the further away a transmitter is from what it needs to transmit to then the bigger and more powerful it has to be. If you just want a drone, even an automated one, to provide some degree of top-cover visibility for a formation but the controlling vehicle is a couple km away behind a ridge then the transmitter on both the vehicle *and the drone* has to be able to transmit those kilometers and through that ridge. This becomes even more of an issue for something like EWar, where overcoming jamming can already result in a larger transmitter, and/or more computing power, and if you're doing something like jamming then if you want your jamming to reach from that "one ridge back" vehicle to cover the advancing force then because of the Inverse-Square Law anyone in between the force and the jamming vehicle is dealing with a *much* stronger signal, and that may include reinforcements or other supporting forces. Plus if for some reason directional jamming isn't possible or desirable then you're also projecting a jamming field over the folks 2 hills back from the point force as well. Now in general modern jamming doesn't affect its own side too much, but there is still some effect, and generally the more thorough the jamming the bigger the effect, especially if the enemy is also trying to jam you in response. So even if there's EWar somewhere else covering the whole battle space there may be advantages to having drone control inside a big armored box close to where the drone is operating. Maybe it makes the drone harder to jam, maybe it makes the drone smaller and cheaper, and heck maybe it makes the drone cheaper but not smaller and it can carry a bigger boom or more interesting stuff that supports the mission.

[@raylast3873]

I think the question of whether or not it is necessary to fight is a political question which in most countries the people being asked to fight will ultimately have a mind of their own about. If not on the first day then certainly once things start to go wrong. Self-defense is usually a popular position, however.

[@txdino6063]

I see drone warfare has a lot of parallels with aviation in WWI. It is evolving same way. From recon to light bombing to improvised aircraft vs aircraft.

[@qjnmh]

“Are air mobile units obsolete?” I would argue that they are no more obsolete than they always have been, which is they are useful in only very specific circumstances, and most of the time those missions can be achieved in other ways…

[@jefferynelson]

these two should play beer pong & Military History Trivial Pursuit simultaneously

[@barneyrubble4293]

Giving every soldier a gopro would be great for people like us who love analyzing everything

[@PaulVerhoeven2]

And to the enemy who would capture such video from time to time. Completely encrypted video with decryption keys unavailable to anyone outside of top command would be another story. Anyway, this war has generated so much, even available on yt let alone telegram.

[@tordsteiro9838]

When learning the lessons of battlefield innovation, I would've loved to see it done within theoretical frameworks of innovation and disruption. Like, you have the classical disruptive innovation, where you offer a sub-par product to a segment of non-consumers. Basically those who can not afford legacy products. You do this through business model innovation. You have several ways to apply these kind of frameworks, and it would be really cool have a discussion about lessons within such frameworks.

[@mmaleko]

“We don’t want the nerd, we want ammo” cracked me up good 😂

[@infinitehonkworks195]

I feel like anger toward the austrian and german governments is justified, as while russia turned off the gas, it was those governments that made the countries reliant on russian gas in the first place, despite all the ivory tower fanfare about how pure, noble and green they were they had plenty of time to invest in alternative sources to cut off the russians completely, but refused, and now the common people get to suffer for it while they kick back cozy in their mansions

[@Curmudgeon2]

at Chosin the Marines were never fully encircled, but the Army RCT (-) was encircled on the eastern side and pretty much destroyed....however, their sacrifice allowed the Marines to regroup and withdraw. Yes, the MSR going south was interdicted by Chinese troops, but they were not strong enough to actually block the road and 1st Marine Div was able to withdraw in good order. I credit this to the fact that the 1st MD was at full strength with their ranks filled with WWII Marines called by to active duty and not KATUS that the Army was stuck with to fill out their ranks.

[@frankgulla2335]

Nice job, guys. Thank you

[@MisterNizz]

Great discussion. I love listening to this kind of thing.

[@typxxilps]

drones do not constantly need to broadcast, you can let them fly in autonomous mode and reconnect at a specific time to transmit next part of the mission.

[@julianshepherd2038]

I don't know how you make prediction as it is early days for drone technology.

[@kirkstinson7316]

@@julianshepherd2038 early days? Drones have been around for several decades already. Hell, there were very early drones used in WWII. Worn out bombers filled with explosives and flown remotely

[@torinnbalasar6774]

@@julianshepherd2038 I'm pretty sure that to an extent, the MQ9 and similar platforms from the US already do that. It's not exactly an unknown challenge to give a computer GPS coords and it comes up with its own path to the target.

[@robertharper3754]

@@kirkstinson7316, the first ones were being tried out during WW1!!!

[@thedarksage328]

@@julianshepherd2038 You can count on fully autonomous drones being a reality. In that they will fly to and destroy the target without any radio communications that can be jammed. I'm not sure about the legalities of this, but it certainly should be doable.

[@lucdrouin4653]

Our hosts, in addition to giving us learned opinions on the subject-matter, are able to quote correctly Star Trek : Deep Space Nine, re : a dialogue between Quark and Nog. Given that this episode was aired in the 90s, unless they currently binge on old sci-fi programs, this is very impressive.

[@richardnicklin654]

On the subject of airborne forces: we should remember that they can be employed as an extremely rapidly deployable reserve either to reinforce a defence or to support a counter attack. The Bundeswehr certainly exercised this sort of manoeuvre (with helicopters) in the 1980s.

[@Lomi311]

WW1 cavalry was used much the same as well. The British called it “fire brigades” I think. The horses were too vulnerable to attack at the front (usually) but they’re mobility was a huge asset in rear areas.

[@watcherzero5256]

There is a difference between an air-mobile high readiness force and an air-deployable force.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

It's not that the horses were too vulnerable, most cavalry attacks in ww1 had low casualties compaired to infantry units, even ones attacking foentlaly against machine guns and what not. The issue was they wanted to preserve their strength to counter or exploit breakthroughs because they were the only real mobile troops.

[@patrickshanley4466]

Outstanding guys!! Would like to see more of this..

[@heikki7949]

Danke meine herren, this was great discussion

[@curthenderson6407]

As a retired USAF combat cameraman who's last deployment was in Iraq (with US Army)during the "Surge" here's an observation about information warfare. We put a lot of effort into combating enemy propaganda by gathering info to show people on both sides what was really going on. Put simply, we fought lies and misperceptions by showing the truth. Seeing alot of this in Ukraine.

[@ssgtmole8610]

How much paperwork did you have to file with Command before publishing a video? Did you have the "Good Morning Vietnam" censor red penciling your edit?

[@christosswc]

"What was really going on", as if to say "we were the good guys and the truth personalized". But we don't believe in Fairy Tales. Reality of it was you had no business being there, as usual, and were fighting the information war trying to justify your invasion. The US got their lesson in Vietnam about the importance of controlling information in the media and the West have become a modern personization of Goebels during this conflict.

[@RobBCactive]

Yet despite that there are still people, even friendly Ukraine war commentators who have bought into the simplistic idea that the US invaded Afghanistan essentially out of aggression rather than with a real purpose. I felt compelled to respond sketchung out the reasons and how Iraq essentially lost the info battle once Saddam's bluff on retained WMD was exposed. Even in a co-combatant country the Iraq invasion is regarded as bogus and a strategic error. The ICC on Blair "insufficient evidence of war crimes for trial" is not regarded as an exoneration. The Kremlin propaganda machine has often been able to frame the common narratives, because simple takes have appeal. The Taliban first achieved dominance in civil war with foreign money and other states had interests to undermine any stability. Yet it's the attempt to improve life in Afghanistan that takes the common criticism.

[@ssgtmole8610]

@@RobBCactive Uh, Sadam didn't bluff. Bush/Cheney, etc. lied about WMDs. No one in america thinks about the still ongoing war in iraq. Another hole the warmongers in america are pissing money into - for their own profit. 🙄

[@RobBCactive]

@@ssgtmole8610 Saddam wanted doubt, he did bluff that he retained such tech to bolster the strongman image necessary to rule by fear. That's why they wouldn't allow access to the "palace" sites, and probably had disinformation around that would be sold to foreign intelligence services. Bush/Cheney lied less, made a case for regime change. The neo Cons had been openly advocating invading Iraq in 1996 to gain strategic advantages so Bush's claim about Iraqi funding of terrorism in 2001 was met with scepticism and dismay. It looked like a diversion and a strategic error which was extremely risky. In 1991 when the WMD was discovered there was a far better case to intervene but wise heads prevailed pointing out the difficulty of administering an occupation and the unravelling of the coalition that such would cause.

[@stuartcoyle1626]

Lesson number 1. Don't start wars you can't finish on your terms, even better - don't start wars. We never seem to learn this lesson.

[@Merces69]

yes best way to not be heartbroken is to not fall in love, the best way to avoid a heart attack is to not eat. the best way to not die in a car crash is to not drive.

[@brianmead7556]

Lesson #2: It's free to be a jerk, it's free to be nice, but it's a lot cheaper to not have to pick your teeth up off the floor after someone's had enough of your jerkery. Or in this case, it's a lot cheaper to let people just speak their language than to have to rebuild your country after losing your resource rich regions, blue water ports, and infrastructure.

[@alhesiad]

Look, a crossover in the MHV Extended Universe.

[@Roulandus-le-Fartere]

Totally correct on the Drone conclusions. Like Poison Gas in WWI, the initial employment was wildly successful but they will yield diminishing returns, eventually becoming a liability once launch sites can be back-traced.

[@TheBrewjo]

Upvoted for quoting Quark. God damn Trekkies I love you all!

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

thank you :)

[@richardnicklin654]

Yet more on air assault: the attack on Point Salines airfield in Grenada (Operation Urgent Fury) was a successful parachute insertion in 1983. Even crazier: the Rangers had to replan their assault while airborne, initially planned to land at the airfield and switched to parachutes after seeing the runway blocked. During the Rhodesian Bush War parachute landings were performed to great tactical effect by the RLI (in so-called “fire force” tactics).

[@mnk9073]

Not sure you can brag about Urgent Fury, putting up Rangers against two dozen cuban engineers and a handful of Grenadian security guards is like putting up the Yankees against your daughter's little league team...

[@gwtpictgwtpict4214]

@@mnk9073 So the Americans did it right then. Also didn't see any 'bragging' in @Richard Nicklin's post, just reporting what happened.

[@neiltitmus9744]

@@mnk9073 and it still went sideways

[@robertillston2350]

The only successful "terror bombing" incident one MIGHT consider, and I would understand why this may be considered a special case, was the atomic bombing of Japan to end WW2.

[@Yordleton]

I recommend watching a video by the youtuber "Shaun" which does a really good job of explaining and showing that Japan was essentially defeated and there was no military reason to bomb it. Even Curtis "Bombs away" LeMay said the atomic bombs were unnecessary despite him being one of the biggest supporters of the strategic bombing of population centers.

[@slimdiddyd]

Guernica in the Spanish civil war as well, but your point stands nonetheless

[@cleanerben9636]

@@Yordleton Lol poor Shaun. The Japanese were not defeated. They were going to continue the war no matter what.

[@Talashaoriginal]

@@cleanerben9636 Says who? Don't forget the conventional bombing of Tokio was as deadly as Hiroshima and deadlier than Nagasaki.

[@shaneintheuk2026]

I was just going to say the same thing.

[@wolfetwain]

Very interesting conversation between knowledgeable folks. Plus, loved the star trek interlude!

[@phil20_20]

The T-72 is obsolete! Really sticking my neck out there... 😂

[@ihcfn]

Excellent discussion, thank you.

[@astrorick2910]

Chieftain with Star Trek knowledge 🔥🔥🔥

[@nowthenzen]

There's an operation with the French in Vietnam (this is all from memory so bear with me) The French defense of North Vietnam had collapsed and the army was in full retreat closely followed by the Vietminh. So Leclerc had a paratroop battalion drop in-between the retreat and hold off Uncle Ho for a day or two, willing to sacrifice one Battalion to save an army. Near the end of the action the battalion commander turns to a Lieutenant in command of local troops (i.e. SE Asian troops) and says, You hold the line while the rest of the guys get out. It's simple math, 40 to save 400. And so it goes. I think that Lieutenant and some of his guys managed to get away that night. I think it might have been told by the Great Bernard Fall Street Without Joy. To whom, everybody should have listened and read.

[@khiem1939]

Many of us read him, but alas we weren't in charge of the either the troops or the war, we were just little cogs in that war! Strange, today in Vietnam, High School students study English rather than the previous Russian, they as a nation HATE Chinese, not ethnic Vietnamese/Chinese, but Mainland Chinese! As one former Viet Cong Captain with the T-10 Sapper Battalion told me "The war was long ago, you did your job and I did my job, but today nobody cares about the war! Today, Vietnam wants to be friends with the United States, since we have a common enemy, CHINA!" Yes, after 55 years. since I graduated from Vietnamese Language School at DLI, I can still read and speak "passable" Vietnamese!

[@nowthenzen]

@@khiem1939 Thanks for the insight!

[@samb2052]

Dead on. Much wisdom to be gleaned from’Street without Joy.’

[@johnspurrell1200]

Dien Bien Phu Hell in a Very Small Place was Fall's book about it.

[@derrickthewhite1]

@@khiem1939 Count the number of wars between Vietnam and China, and check who Vietnam fought their most recent war with, and it makes plenty of sense.

[@cannonfodder4376]

Never expected the two of you to be Trekkie's. Learn something new everyday.

[@WhiskyCanuck]

Unexpected Deep Space 9. "Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes."

[@andrewcox4386]

The thing about concept tanks is that they give you a chance to test things out and see how they work. It's like the barrel end camera they trialled on Challenger. They found it made the crews so cautious that the tactical advance slowed as crews were checking absolutely everything.

[@VT-mw2zb]

I also found a very good military science author, Stephen Biddle, described how he saw at the divisional HQ during Operation Anaconda, Afghanistan, that a drone footage of a fire team watching a few goat herders got looked at by the entire divisional HQ staff and 98 command echelons and all of these people, from a 2-stars general downwards, were telling a fireteam what to do. More information isn't always better.

[@egoalter1276]

The thing with that, is that in MATO doctrine nobody has command authority two levels below themselves. The only one allowed to directly order that fireteam about was their platoon commander.