Ultima Underworld Review | Aged, But Does It Hold Up?

[@corwinberry]

As a Corwin any news we bring is useless.

[@Voidbrand]

Well, at least this version of Corwin is. Grabs the wrong guy, sends his men into the Abyss who can't even handle a few goblins, then sends the Avatar in without weapons, armor, or boots. Good job. Though he was right about where Ariel was taken, so there's that I guess.

[@corwinberry]

@@Voidbrand tbh that's something I'd do too.

[@Wonzling0815]

The jumping becomes much less finicky with two tricks: 1) You can't fall off an edge while walking backwards, so use that to always go as far as possible before jumping, it's probably farther than you realized. 2) Shift-J lets you do a standing jump forward. These two options combined let you jump most gaps easily.

[@Voidbrand]

Very good tips I wasn't aware of. Will have to keep those in mind when I replay the sequel.

[@Wonzling0815]

@@Voidbrand UW2 was the first game I ever got on PC after switching machines from the Amiga. I still remember staring at the screenshots on the box for a week in anticipation because I had to wait for the hardware to arrive :)

[@joe--cool]

I think Shift-J is added in UltimaHacks or was it in the original?

[@Wonzling0815]

@@joe--cool I've used it for as long as I can remember, starting with original UW2. The standing jump forward definitely exists, could be I'm mistaken about the key combo

[@Desocupad0]

There was a feather fall spell/potion.

[@ranzelinger9606]

It blew my mind when I realized the game had jumping, looking up/down, NPCs and dialogue, and a simple physics engine in a game that came out before freaking WOLFENSTEIN. I remember clearly that 'looking up and down and jumping' was a very big thing back then.

[@7hkey]

Also the levels in Wolfenstein were flat. UW had stairs and and rivers :O and you could even fly/levitate

[@CYON4D]

​​​​​@@darksaurian6410Underworld is technically more impressive and capable than Doom.

[@ZeromSama]

@@darksaurian6410 Because when most computers could run doom & wolfenstein, this required a monster computer to run properly back in it's days. While it was fully textured, you had options to turn of different textures, which was the way most people I knew played the game.

[@moomah5929]

@@darksaurian6410 This still pisses me every single time people are fangasming over Wolfenstein and especially DOOM. Carmack was a brat. "I can make an engine like this that is running far faster!" after seeing a UUW1 demo back in the day and what did he create? Wolfenstein, a simply, flat leveled shooter without floor and ceiling textures... Comparing this to a proper 360° dungeon crawling RPG that was ahead of its time and brought PCs to their knees because of that. It's like saying Pac Man is better than Ultima 7 because it was running faster...

[@moomah5929]

@@darksaurian6410 Don't have anything against him now as he has grown up, but he was a brat back then. I still find him overrated as people make him out to be the coder god, even though there were many others that did great stuff but didn't receive a cult following. Also many people and outlets do, like Wolfenstein and Doom were sooo advanced, not mentioning, that UUW (while running slower of cause) was far more advanced and came out (a few months) before Wolfenstein. I think, many that played Wolfenstein and Doom back then were children / teens that though to be cool by playing the games with pixel blood and gore. So edgy! xD

[@hansknickerbocker9202]

This was a weirdly significant game for me. Played when I was very young and didn't know anything about the Ultima games. Didn't really understand the story aside from being thrown into a labyrinthine dungeon for a crime I didn't commit. I had a very active imagination at that age and that combined with wandering this confusing, dangerous dungeon was very anxiety inducing but also very compelling. Since then I've always had a fondness for the concept of a prisoner or a small group of convicts being chucked into a dungeon that was ancient and barely understood.

[@Voidbrand]

I had the same experience with Ultima VII. I basically just wandered around, explored, fought monsters, and stole things. I remember setting up a home in a cave near Minoc and dumped any companions I wasn't using and made up stories in my head. Britannia really sucked me in, and it's likely the reason why I like open world games.

[@hansknickerbocker9202]

@@Voidbrand It's funny how when we're young we can start to roleplay like that without really trying or even knowing what roleplay is lol. I remember looking at the backgounds in games back then and wanting to go to tops of mountains and other areas that you only see from a distance. I like open worlds, but I always feel like they're not done as well as they could/should be. I kind of wish more games embraced the Deus Ex style "open area" where you have a handful of fairly large (compared to a normal shooter level) but very dense and detailed locations. There are some things you just can't do without an open world though. For example being able to just pick a random direction and stumble into an interesting dungeon like in Elders Scrolls games.

[@sherrihaight2724]

I had seen an early Ultima game, my best friend in high school had these rare computers because of her dads work. The screen of this game was was made entirely of letters and numbers in various colors as the graphics. Otherwise I'd never played any in series until UU.

[@hansknickerbocker9202]

@@sherrihaight2724 Maybe Akalabeth? It was a sort of predecessor to Ultima. One of the very first games I ever played had the same graphics, Star Command (1988).

[@YoreHistory]

Same. This was THE PC game that finally made me sell my Amiga 500 wife for the sexy mistress VGA. I still remember the ads saying 26 miles of dungeon to explore. The game was SO good.

[@ichemnutcracker]

The thing that always surprised me about this game is that, not only did it come out before Doom, but it even came out before Wolfenstein 3D, and yet it is graphically much more impressive than both. Also, as far as spiritual successors go, the original System Shock was made by the same development team, and, as somebody already mentioned, Arx Fatalis was also made by some of the team members.

[@oliverurbanik9647]

Well.. this is.. was.. Origin Systems for you. For every Game you need a new PC :D .. heavy times :D

[@CaptainMcRed]

Arx Fatalis was pitched to be Ultima Underworld 3 at one point, but I don't think any of the original Ultima Underworld devs works on it.

[@andrewtaylor940]

It wasn’t just the graphics. It was the physics that were mind blowing at the time. It would be years past doom and wolfenstein that we would see such again.

[@ichemnutcracker]

@@CaptainMcRed I think you are right. I thought I remembered hearing somewhere that a few people from Looking Glass were involved in Arx, but it's more likely that they just had their blessing without actually being on the team. My bad.

[@SomeOrangeCat]

More graphically impressive, but not as fun to play.

[@SevenCompleted]

the lizardman quest is one of the best quests in video games period.

[@EmergencyChannel]

Amazing what game developers could do back then. 8 guys in a 15x15 room over two years for $400,000 made this amazing game and created a whole new sub genre. Now triple A studios have thousands of people, hundred million dollar budgets and they can only pump out generic, linear, buggy messes. Games,much like films, have gotten too big and corporate for their own good but that's what happens when things like shareholders exist and the focus on quartly profits over long term business practices. Anyway, System Shock is still my favorite game built off the foundation of Ultima Underworld 1&2. I think the only game that ever came close was Deux Ex, although Prey was a damn fine try at capturing the essence of System Shock.

[@Voidbrand]

I was pretty surprised, then not surprised to find out it was just several guys who worked on Ultima Underworld. That period of time saw a lot of innovation and excitement on their part to put out the best products possible with the resources they have. I 100% agree with companies getting too big and corporate in the modern era, it's a shame. System Shock is a great game, honestly prefer it over the sequel, which is still pretty good. Hopefully that remake holds up (actually checked just now to see it comes out very soon). Deus Ex is one of my favorites. One day I'd like to talk about it on here alongside System Shock and Ultima (got a big list already).

[@kaijin2k11]

It's a bit important to remember the sheer number of shovelware games that released back then. Don't people remember that giant bin with 25c games that no one ever wanted? For every Ultima series, there's an uncountable number of Tek Wars, Island Perils, Translands, and many more that everyone's better off forgetting. There's good stuff in modern games, just like the classics. And oceans of trash in both eras.

[@ArcaneAzmadi]

@@kaijin2k11 Yes, but the trash made today has a development budget in the tens of millions and a development team of hundreds, and get so overhyped by its bloated marketing budget that thousands of hapless gamers get suckered into paying for it before realising "Hang on, this is shit!" It's a world of difference.

[@yuin3320]

​@@kaijin2k11 Definitely good to remember that too, but the modern big budget games are such a unique and ever growing monument to failure that I'll never pass a chance to rip into them. Shovelware were the titles publishers put no real resources into, now it's the exact opposite.

[@AynsleyGreen]

Prey is quite possibly the greatest game of the last decade. SS2 married with modern sensibilities. I've played through it four times and each time was completely different

[@sherrihaight2724]

This game amazed me. I bought it as a college graduation present, and paid hundreds of dollars for a new fancy color svga monitor just to go with this game! It was so awesome inspiring immersing at the time. And enjoyable story. Seems to be underrated though, seems it never gained word of mouth awareness I thought it deserved. I've never met another gamer who also played it. So weird! That apocalypse rune trick still was a low, cruel blow.

[@mondkalb9813]

I remember that I needed to buy a new PC to run this game smoothly (or at all?). The Ultima games often needed the high-end PCs of their time. Anyway, I had a blast playing it. It was the most immersive experience you could have on a computer back in the day.

[@chloraloner7]

I love that the recommended tab is getting better about boosting little channels. This was a cozy watch.

[@Voidbrand]

Thank you. I'm surprised at al the engagement this one is getting, but happy people like it. 👍

[@sphexism]

Arx Fatalis was a very good successor of sort if you ask me. And the updated opensource engine makes it work on modern systems and de-janks it. It does feel short compared to UU though.

[@Voidbrand]

Arx is very good, still have my boxed copy. One day I'll revisit it. I actually can't remember how short it was compared to Underworld, but my memory on the game is fuzzy. All I remember is Am Shaegar's origins and the bald Ylside guys (who were tough).

[@drsnova7313]

Agree. It was over when it felt like we should be around the midle point of the story. Also, it was a good bit more linear than UO. Still liked it a lot, but it can't quite compare.

[@Michaeljack81sk]

I loved this game. Over 30 years later my best friend and I will occasionally find an excuse to shout "Medallion! I need no Stinking Medallion!" (Or "Don't bother me with your nonsense!") at one another and laugh our asses off A little recommendation to anyone wanting to play a caster. Select Mage and Pick Mana twice. Keep rerolling your character until you start with a Mana stat of 16+ As the size of your mana pool appears to be entirely based on how high your mana stat is at the start of the game

[@thepavl]

when I installed my very first cd drive on my 486 back in 1994 they gave a CD-ROM with ten games published by EA and it included Ultima underworld with it’s manual. I have to say the combination of the game and manual really fuelled my imagination and got me into fantasy. I remember it fondly even if I never finished it

[@Voidbrand]

I do miss the detailed game manuals back in the day.

[@madzen112]

Got the game on that same CD. Wasn't really expecting much when I installed it the first time, but it was great.

[@thepavl]

@@madzen112 incredible!

[@JH-pe3ro]

The Looking Glass team members always described what they were doing as, essentially, a kind of "dungeon crawling" game that evolved on that framework. Going backwards from Ultima Underworld, the key influences would roughly be: * Ultima 6 (The model of NPCs, text keyword dialogue, quest-giving and ability to softlock through their death) * Dungeon Master (real-time, mouse-driven interface) * Alternate Reality: The City/The Dungeon (first-person, semi real-time with intensive simulation elements) * Wizardry (the first fleshed-out, puzzles-and-traps first-person dungeon crawl) * Various mainframe dungeon crawling games (the basis for both Wizardry and the early Ultimas) Although I've enjoyed Underworld and each of these predecessors to some extent, I've never finished any of them, with the exception of once cheating to the end of Ultima 6. Something about endless maze and item management gameplay wears me down, just like the review says. Dying and seeing the skull graphic zoom in was a shock for young me, too - not unusual for that era of games, but, uh, I was squeamish about it. I never got around to playing more than demos of the System Shock and Thief games back in the day, so the first immersive sim I really did complete was Deus Ex, and by then the core ideas were really streamlined and I could approach it more like I was playing Doom or Quake(both of which I played through over and over).

[@Buchnerd_Souly]

I played UU2 and have bought it on CD with a box many, many years ago, when this was still a thing. I remember I had some issues with the difficulty. My favorite was Ultima8: Pagan, and yes, I know many hate it, but this was my first contact with Ultima and I love it. I still have the box with all the goodies from this game as well after all this years.

[@Voidbrand]

I'm looking to do a Pagan video one day. I have an opinion that doesn't really go along with the herd, so to speak. Unfortunately I misplaced the box growing up, and lost the really nice cloth map that came with it. :\

[@WilliamTheFolded]

Great video! I liked how you drew comparisons to the previous games in the franchise when talking about the mechanics and story. It's good to see more attention being brought to the old greats like this game. I'm interested to see what else you have in the works!

[@JakZie]

I like your videos, they are not too wacky and overproduced, but also not too dry. Reminds me of "old KZbin" school of doing things. Really wondering where are you going to take things forward. Best of luck!

[@Areala21]

Phenomenal review and retrospective! The thumbs up is a given, but this was well-worth the subscription and a comment to feed the algorithm. I grew up during the DOS era, and while I didn't have a PC of my own to play games on, I loved reading the gaming magazines of the day and had several friends who did have gaming PCs (or at least what passed for ones in the days of the 386), so I was exposed to a lot of these through osmosis. Excellent narrative style, and I can't wait to see what you decide to look at next! :)

[@Voidbrand]

I never got too deep into the PC world until '98+ with Baldur's Gate, but those magazines were a blast to read about games I knew I would never play at the time (Daggerfall was one of them). Thanks for the comment engagement and support, friend. 👍

[@will-love-lvx]

That's me also. My Dad never understood why I loved my consoles but I never understood why he liked Shareware! I still followed everything in the way you described. The Magazines were great. I think all of us are probably around the same age...😅

[@Voidbrand]

@@will-love-lvx 35-44 is the biggest age range according to my analytics, so you'd be right. 💀

[@will-love-lvx]

@@Voidbrand Yup...lol. I'm 47.

[@Voidbrand]

@@will-love-lvx Well, close enough. 💀 That's the second biggest.

[@Karu617th]

I played this... Krikey this old. I remember you could pick up a mushroom from the floor and eat it, then hallucinate with colors all around. Way ahead of its time.

[@patsk8872]

I would always make a massive pile of items near the stairs and it would end up breaking the save file LOL. Eventually I learned not to transfer too many items from other levels, instead making one main stash for each level.

[@NinjaRunningWild]

Error : Can't crunch.

[@KopperNeoman]

That's why Morrowind would give up and scoop items into a magic bag if you overload a cell.

[@Voidbrand]

I was worried about that. From what I read the CD version fixed that bug. But I made the same error in Serpent Isle. I was farming for money so I can buy every spell in Moonglow (which I know isn't needed because of the False Coin spell, but I was trying to be honest, even though they didn't deserve it). Filled up a chest or 2 before taking the ship to Moonglow, and the game crashed. Oops.

[@Novastar.SaberCombat]

I had the honor and pleasure of sharing a few emails with Richard Garriot. This was some years ago, just prior to (and after) the pandemic. His work on U4 and U5 was absolutely inspiring to me, and some of my award-winning books have several homages to "Ultima" hidden within the pages. 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨

[@Voidbrand]

Years ago when I finished Ultima I, I read he would still send certificates if you mailed him proof of finishing the game. I sent mine in and got one many months later. Nowadays he'll respond to you on Twitter if you tell him you finished any Ultima game. Pretty cool of him.

[@will-love-lvx]

I wonder what he's up to these days, honestly. We definitely owe him props for his place in RPG history!

[@markalan2829]

I enjoyed the video. Well narrated and Informative. i either couldn't afford these games back when they came out or didn't know about them. In the days before KZbin, Steam & GoG I generally didn't know what was out unless it was stocked at my local Software Etc. I'm playing a lot of them now and really appreciate reviews of older games. Thanks and keep up the good work.

[@Voidbrand]

Thank you, I'm glad you got something worthwhile out of the video. I missed out on a lot of DOS games back then due to my very young age, and Windows quickly moving away from a command line interface, but I had a blast with this game. Eventually I'll revisit Ultima Underworld 2 and attempt a video on that as well.

[@Tony_Cardoza]

These games had very high system requirements when they came out. And some of them, Ultima 7 and 8 specifically, had a whole process you had to do to install them. It wasn't as simple as inserting disks 1-6 during installation. You had take extra steps to prepare your PC for the installations. They were so obtuse, in fact, that even the later released Ultima Anthology on CD-ROM gave me problems with the later games when it first game out. I don't think I could get 7 or 8 to run at all. And this was supposed to be the easier to use, streamlined CD release. Aklabeth as well as 1-6 installed and worked fine, you just had to turn down the speed on them, especially the earliest titles. Never played the Underworld games but they look very neat.

[@Fuckyoubloodymoron]

@@Tony_Cardoza Ultima7 required a boot disk because it had it's own memory manager. Good times.

[@will-love-lvx]

I love the weird Might and Magic style animations on the enemies. This was mind blowing to me being a console peasant my early career! It's great we can revisit these classic CRPG's today. Subbed!!

[@Voidbrand]

Welcome. 💀 Going from the Sega Genesis to games like Ultima was a huge jump back then.

[@azmodanpc]

Never played it back in the day, I was an Amiga owner (well my dad was anyway) and I remember distinctly the feeling of “this is the future”. Origin games kickstarted so much ( wing commander, ultima online ) it’s mind blowing.

[@GreySectoid]

Lol that Die Hard reference, Avatar must have had the worst hangover ever upon starting the quest Anyway I'm glad the youtube algorithm recommended me this video, your channel seems to be right up my alley.

[@Voidbrand]

True, or a big headache with no aspirin in sight. KZbin seems to be recommending this video quite a bit for a channel this small, which is surprising. But I'm glad people are liking it. Thanks. 👍

[@dungeonchill]

This video was really good. As someone else mentioned, I liked that you brought up the other Ultima games too. You got a sub out of me!

[@Voidbrand]

Thank you. 🙂 I didn't think Ultima had this much staying power, but I'm glad to see there are still fans out there. I plan on revisiting Ultima Underworld II soon-ish, and the other games like 7, 8 & 9 once I feel more confident in doing those games (7 & 8 at least) justice.

[@G.B...]

I came for the old games vibe, stayed for the quality content. Looking forward for future videos. :)

[@Voidbrand]

Welcome aboard, sir. 💀

[@Syenthros]

I'm glad you delve more deeply into this game. Spoony covered it for a brief amount of time in his Retrospective, but he didn't go that deep into it if I recall correctly. The game looks quite interesting, I may need to give it a try sometime.

[@Voidbrand]

Been awhile since I watched his Ultima videos, but I don't believe he did. I felt like I didn't either, there were things I wanted to talk about but either forgot, or because I didn't want to go over 20 minutes.

[@Syenthros]

@@Voidbrand No worries, it was an enjoyable watch. :D I look forward to seeing other reviews from you.

[@thorjelly]

Ultima Underworld I & II and Ultima VII are some of my favorite games. I go back to them sometimes. I genuinely believe that immersive sims these days like the recent Elder Scrolls games do not hold a candle to them. If you want some recommendations for older games, try to play through the Quest for Glory series some time. They are excellent. Another series I come back to regularly. It'd be fun to watch someone stream them blind.

[@Voidbrand]

I missed out on both Underworld games back in the day and it's a shame, as Ultima VII is one of my favorite PC games of all time. I'd say out of the 2 I enjoy Labyrinth of Worlds the most just because of its connection to Ultima VII. I'd like to talk about the Elder Scrolls games on here one day, especially Daggerfall. I like them, but they don't really give me the same feel as Ultima VII did. Gothic I & II did though, both I'd also like to do videos on. I've heard of the Quest for Glory series and they look like interesting games. Definitely something I'd play seeing as they're point and click adventures. I'll check them out someday now that I got the GOG link bookmarked.

[@thorjelly]

​@@Voidbrand Awesome! I hope you enjoy them. Especially QfG IV, it's the best one if you can stick it out. The voice acting is top notch. The narrator is the guy who played Gimli in the LotR movies. I am undecided if I like UW1 or UW2 more, myself. They have different things going for them. I think the world building, atmosphere, and cohesion of the Stygian Abyss is better. But the plot relevance of UW2 and the variety of environments are very nice, and it probably has better and more navigable level design for the most part.

[@pretzelboi64]

The Elder Scrolls games are trying too hard to be realistic. They're stuck in the uncanny valley of immersion: Not realistic enough for the animations and actions to be immersive but too realistic and detailed for the mind to simply imagine what it should look like. The immersive strength of Underworld lies in its simple pixel art presentation. It feels more like reading a book than watching a movie and that's what makes it pretty timeless outside of its terrible control scheme.

[@thorjelly]

@@pretzelboi64 I'm not sure I'd call it realism. The differences in technology for sure allows (recent) ES games to do more which leaves less to the imagination and therefore makes the suspension of disbelief harder, for sure. But to me, it's mostly the quality of the NPCs and the writing, among other more nuanced touches that mosty contributes to the realism of games like UW and U7. NPCs in ES games just suck. They're awful. The voice acting is terrible, most of them have no personality, the dialog is very sparse. For the most part, one NPC is just like the other. At best an NPC is just fodder to give you one quest, they have no purpose other than that, unless it's a very plot important NPC... and even then, you can't really talk to anyone about anything except one or two arbitrary things the writers were feeling at the time. In UW or Ultima VII you can just find some random NPC and they have these massive dialog trees with paragraphs of writing with each dialog option. I remember in VII wandering down into a blackrock mine and talking to the NPCs there, completely plot unimportant, and they were fully realized characters. Plus in Ultima VII, the NPC schedule system, though more primitive, was just as if not more immersive than Oblivion's Radiant AI. None of the dialog options were arbitrary; you'd generally have exactly the same options for every NPC, asking them about their name, their job, etc., and then those balloon out into a bunch of other dialog options. This contributes so much to the immersiveness of the world. Plus this comes across in other ways; in the Ultima games you have items scattered very deliberately, in U7 everything is laid out as a very deliberate set piece. You'll stumble upon a horde of treasure in a pile, magic items buried under it, in some corner of some cave. Lots of reasons to explore everything because you have no idea what you'll find, every corner feels storied, set up with care, you'll ask yourself what stories lead are behind the things you find, and sometimes, with books, dialog options, etc., you'll even get answers. In an ES you'll have... containers with loot tables. That's mostly it. Sure, there are some unique magic items in very deliberate places, but, for the most part, no. You have loot tables. Set pieces are purely cosmetic, they have no functional purpose. It just feels like there is so much less care, and, for me, it really detracts from the world building.

[@KopperNeoman]

I would recommend seeking out the VGA remake of 2, as well as the latest fanpatches (the GoG versions have fanpatches but they're out of date), for 3, 4, and 5. I would also recommend using ScummVM to play the games, and there's a randomiser out there too.

[@TrunkMonkey42]

This is the game that John Carmack saw at a trade show and inspired him to create Wolfenstein. Its a full 3D engine using octrees that runs with software rendering on a 386.

[@battlemode]

Great video! Perfect length and the script was so good I was able to enjoy it without ever looking at the screen while I was working. Keep it up dude!

[@Voidbrand]

Thanks for the encouraging words, appreciate it. 👍

[@VoidSmoker97]

Great review, I beat Ultima Underworld for the first time last year and I had a lot of fun with it minus all the reasons you mentioned, I mainly wasn’t a fan of the backtracking but when I finally got to the end it was very satisfying. I honestly didn’t know the GOG version was screwed since I didn’t get any of those issues when I played

[@Voidbrand]

There really was a lot of backtracking in this one. It would've been nice if those collapsed stairs were repaired by the Mountainmen later on so you can easily revisit the previous floors. It's not a huge deal for me but it did add to the dragness factor towards the end, but finishing the game was satisfying. I'm glad I finally got around to playing this one.

[@martinngalindo]

Its interesting, even if i never play the game is like the old medieval fantasy games have some kind of charm and immersion; one i cant describe why

[@gammalgubbestorstadshoodie9148]

There was another adventure roleplaying game named "The Eye Of The Beholder 1-3" on my Amiga 500 back in 1980s that was my favourite game and as a player had 4 different characters like Warrior, Mage, Thief and Druid as a starter team but could get up to 6 characters with magic loot in end game.

[@rebalice9899]

Can confirm: Played as a kid. Was very nostalgic. One of my fondest gaming experiences. Played many times over, trying different builds and approaches each time.

[@albinlindberg876]

The best upcoming channel in 2023... Keep up the good work!

[@mercster]

Thanks for the video. Ultima 5 was the first computer game I owned on the first computer I owned (Laser 128, an Apple IIe compatible sold at Sears)... Ultima 5 is still my favorite, but I like most of the Ultimas. I felt like Elder Scrolls was sort of the "spiritual successor" to Ultima, at least in the early days (Daggerfall/Morrowind.) I saw your other comment about playing an Ultima and just ignoring the "quests" and just treating it like a life/adventure simulator, and that's how I've always treated them. When I was playing Ultima 5 I'm not even sure I was aware there was a quest. 😂 Just adventuring and making up my own stories as I went.

[@Voidbrand]

I definitely let my imagination go wild at the time. I do like the Elder Scrolls games though. Ultima VII is the reason why I like open world games, though I still believe it's the best one even today. With Ultima V, I thought the Shadowlords were cool antagonists, but I still like the Guardian the best.

[@Randomeaninglessword]

I like that the little dragons on the UI have the occasional animation.

[@Voidbrand]

The animators probably had fun with that one. Unfortunately they don't make a return in Underworld II, but at least the game world window is bigger.

[@rebeckylee157]

You must have been told somewhere about the strange ‘cheat’ in both UWI and UWII - you can destroy your scrolls and potions by hitting them with your weapon or throwing them against the wall and then you have infinite uses on those pile of ash, destroyed damaged potion and scrolls. Don’t work for wands, but man I love that old cheat.

[@rchassereau2]

Glad to have found your channel, love any vids on 90s rpgs, always love more Ultima/Wizardry/Elder Scrolls content

[@Voidbrand]

Welcome. 💀 Never played Wizardry, but I plan on doing more Ultima videos soon. One day I'd like to talk about the Elder Scrolls games as well.

[@numitr0n291]

Fantastic video and channel! Sometimes KZbin recommendations really hit the spot - subscribed! 🙂I like your mostly very calm way of speaking, makes watching these videos very relaxing. Very interesting selection of games you've reviewed so far, keep up the good work! Very much looking forward to some new videos :-)

[@Voidbrand]

Thank you. I feel like I'm robotic and monotone, but I'm glad to hear it. 👍

[@caligulawellington3171]

This game deserves a remake. Ultima Underworld are games I can always return to and enjoy, but seeing them modernised would be amazing.

[@Voidbrand]

I would love a remake of both Underworld games. Even a Nightdive Enhanced Edition would be great.

[@djangoreinhardt3795]

Great vid, good editing, good sound quality, good narration and informative. 👌

[@Voidbrand]

Thanks for the encouraging words. ✌️

[@holden6104]

This game was absolutely incredible on a technical level. Real light sourcing. Able to look up and down and travel in a true 3D space. Not to mention the insane amount of interaction with the environment and a complex social system that reacts dynamically to your decisions. Nothing at the time came close.

[@Azzabajam]

Great vid, wish it was 3-4 times longer

[@VicMikesvideodiary]

This game was so much fun back in the day. Even my girl friends mom wanted to play. The music has a great hook. Never could make it to the end of this game, where you fight the demon at the lowest level. Either my machine failed or it was bad code in the game but it always bugged out.

[@randomrickreviewsrrr4662]

Always cool to see these old RPGs. Nice post.

[@Voidbrand]

Thanks, friend. 👍

[@Chef_Alpo]

I had this on a double feature cd (Wing Commander II being the other) back in the early 90s. Absolutely loved it, spent many late nights crawling around the abyss never getting beyond the 3rd level (I was 7 or 8). There was also a port for the Compaq Ipaq, which actually worked quite well with the touchscreen and limited set of buttons on the device. I do remember losing random items in my inventory in that version however, ruined my playthrough and that was that.

[@Voidbrand]

I wish I didn't miss out on it, but this and Ultima VII would probably be too much Ultima for one kid. It sucks this version has the inventory bug. That and Judy probably ended so many playthroughs.

[@JamesLee-mp8hk]

Have you played Arx Fatalis? It has a very similar vibe. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Arkane Studios were directly inspired by this game.

[@Voidbrand]

I have actually, still got my boxed copy. A friend in high school turned me onto it. I'm pretty sure it was the first 1st person dungeon crawling game I ever played up to that point. Don't know why it slipped my mind during the review, because if there was ever a spiritual successor then that'd be the one.

[@LevinQGame]

Arx started as Underworld 3 but the deal Arkane was wanting to make with EA fell thru.

[@natearcher6024]

One of the most unbelievable games of the era. Gameplay holds up phenomenally. Now let’s watch the video!

[@bruhshop2688]

Have you considered longer format videos? I’m really enjoying your channel and excited for all your future retrospectives

[@Voidbrand]

Thanks, that's very encouraging to hear. 🙂 I definitely want to do longer videos, around 30 minutes or more. With Ultima Underworld II (which will be after a couple of videos or so), I want to dive a bit deeper into it because of its connection to Ultima VII: The Black Gate. 2 people asked me about longer videos so far and I didn't feel quite ready (still figuring out voiceovers and workflow, and holding peoples' attention), but I may attempt them sooner rather than later. But that may also mean slower uploads.

[@bruhshop2688]

@@Voidbrand well you got my attention! Binged all your videos in one afternoon, definitely a fan and can’t wait for more! I trust your work flow.

[@Voidbrand]

@bruhshop Wow didn't think I'd ever hear that. But thanks a lot! 💀 One more video will be out in a couple of days, hopefully it'll be just as entertaining as the rest.

[@biffrapper]

One of the best, still. Although Wolfenstein was hot stuff, back in the day, I remember drooling over Origin catalogues for quite some time before this came out. I knew something was up when I noticed the floors and walls were diagonals, when at the time the only dungeon crawlers we had were tile based like Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder. I had my Dad drive to the store the day this was released and the next week was a blur. I literally binged this game, night and day over spring break. Immersive sims are the best genre, and this is where they began.

[@Voidbrand]

I remember playing Wolfenstein at a friend's house as a kid. Actually it may have been the very first PC game I was exposed to before getting the Sega Genesis. Though I never did get around to getting my own copy. But going from gridbased dungeon crawlers to this must've been an experience. Though I still like those kind of games.

[@ivanjelenic5627]

I remember casting to create food here. My brother used a cheat engine for imortality, to walk over lava to get to some place, but then I figured out you can trade for dragonskin boots from some guy, so you could walk on lava without taking damage.

[@theguest103]

Incredible! Only a few seconds in and I have to commend you for actually playing the game at the native aspect ratio. 😅 These days, both DOSbox and the GOG port of this game default to 4:3 or some other stretched ratio, which can be seen in-game by whether the inventory slots are circles or ovals. (they should be ovals at native with no stretching). Also, mad props for turning off bilinear filtering EDIT: You are a hero for including a fix for the mouse acceleration / speed, and all the weird GOG jank for newcomers..it's sad that players have to do all these basic game optimizations themselves just to experience this classic game. I went through the trouble of setting up all the MT-32 stuff in MUNT, and it was actually well worth it. I'd recommend looking up an mt-32 soundtrack on KZbin just to give it a listen. Apparently not many games of this era of DOS had MT-32 support, and it seems like UU's music was made with the MT-32 in mind. Although, I've read that most people just used Adlib anyway bc Roland's were expensive af 😂

[@Voidbrand]

I'm a stickler for the "correct" resolution. I'm actually playing this on a 4:3 1600x1200 LCD. Next best thing compared to just playing on an actual CRT. I love the Roland MT-32 music. When I replay this game I'm going to go through with the MUNT stuff, but I don't think the sound blaster music sounds all that bad either.

[@wolfer1000]

Good video. Always fun to learn about games I've never played.

[@cartoonraccoon2078]

I had a friend who used to play this all the time, but he didn't have the book, so couldn't use any spells. I knew the spell words from Ultima 5 and gave him things to try and a lot of them worked! In Vas Mani Corp!

[@Voidbrand]

I really appreciated that they kept the same spell words across the Ultima games. I remembered the Gate Travel spell in this game only because I remembered it back in Ultima Online.

[@PBryanMcMillin]

I played this game when it first came out. Before that, I played a lot of Civilization, and for RPG it was the King's Quest games. From my first steps in the dungeon, I was blown away. Playing a character in the first person was like nothing I had experience in computer games, up to that point. All the faults that seem so obvious today were overshadowed by the experience the game offered that they were easy to overlook. The game just sucked you into a new world. When Underworld 2 came out, I immediately bought and played it. I don't remember that game as much, but I'm sure I enjoyed it.

[@7hkey]

Brilliant and fair review. UW + UW2 are my favourite games of all time. Although not being a medieval setting, I consider the original Deus-Ex to be their sequel. It's about the interaction with the NPC and the ways you can experiment with the world, and how one can make up different solution to challenges. (Warren Spector is involved in both UW and Deus Ex, and in Deus ex there is a bar called Underworld with the same font)

[@Voidbrand]

Thank you. 💀 I love Deus Ex. Played it back when it came out and still revisit it every once in awhile.

[@arhum1224]

14:02 We did actually, in the form of a spiritual successor Arx Fatalis. Though I've heard it is supposedly nowhere good as Ultima Underworld II.

[@carlcouture1023]

You are very correct that the devs made a mistake. Much like how you have primary and secondary virtues, you have primary and secondary classes. Fighter is pure STR, bard is pure DEX, mage is pure INT. Druids are supposed to be a combination of STR and DEX while paladins are meant to have a combination of STR and INT. This is also why the virtue for Druids (Justice) is a combination of Honesty (Truth) and Compassion (Love), which are the virtues of Mages and Bards respectively.

[@Voidbrand]

I've always thought the Paladin would fit the Avatar more, even though he can be any class after Ultima IV. It's why I found it a little weird. Thankfully rectified in Underworld II.

[@sensumcommunem]

This preceded Wolfenstein 3D. I had this on my Amiga 500, and I am amazed today how people think Wolfenstein framed that genre of FPS. when the reality was that Ultima Underworld was way ahead of the game.

[@vincenzo547]

Very noice video. Reminds me that I REALLY need to play this game sometime soon.

[@Voidbrand]

I'll replay this one day. Hopefully by that time Ultima Underworld Unity will be (mostly) ironed out.

[@Don_Matteo]

I have an old 286 with 8Mhz cpu and i remember this game ran pretty smooth on it. Impressive

[@Voidbrand]

We had a Pentium back then. Never did play this when it came out, but Ultima VII: The Black Gate ran at Sonic the Hedgehog speeds. There was a program called mo-slo or something that helped with that, but no internet. At least Serpent Isle and Pagan ran fine.

[@Diamondfist1]

The Ultima Underworld sound setup issue isn't a GoG problem per se, they set it up to make the sound as nice as possible, but is an issue with the original sound drivers. Tye same setup is found in the second Ultima Underworld and the Ultima 7 parts 1 and 2 games. Had the programmers use Roland for music only, and Sound Blaster for speech and sound effects, it would've been much better. I tried a sound patch for my game, but it made my game lock up, so I just used the Adlib/Sound Blaster setup. I love both Underworld games, though the sound setup with Roland music and Sound Blaster speech/sfx would've made it that much better.

[@mko8345]

My favourite game of all time. No other game ever captivated, fascinated and scared me like this one. Ok i was 13 years old back then but still...

[@b.o.4492]

Just found you today liked and subscribed. Bought this back in the day and like Ultima 4, 5, 6, 7… etc never finished it.

[@Voidbrand]

Thank you, welcome aboard. Still good to see more Ultima fans around. I was never able to finish any Ultima game without a guide even back in the day. They definitely weren't easy to finish on your own.

[@Radii_DC]

This game was absolutely amazing back in the day.

[@lucasg0ld]

I am 20 years old and I first played through this game (albeit, with a little bit of a guidance here and there) last year after several new game starts to get better chances at certain parts and because it was fun to explore the levels with a bit more knowledge of my whereabouts. What a fantastic game and as others are saying, even 30 years after its release, it still blew me away and it became one of my favorite games of all time. I felt immersed and I loved and couldn't believe me eyes at some of the ideas and game mechanics that they could pull of as early as March of 1992... insane. In total I played through the game 5 times and I just wish Nightdive could get their hands on it so that an enhanced version could be made, much like System Shock's enhanced version, so that the game could become more accessible to a lot more people.

[@Voidbrand]

A Nightdive Enhanced Edition of both Underworld games would be great. I guess EA doesn't see money in it, or they're now protective of the Ultima name. They won't even let Richard Garriott remaster his main series. 💀

[@lucasg0ld]

@@Voidbrand XD Yeah, sounds like EA alright... pretty unfortunate matter. Although, one can always dream ey? 🤞

[@abyssalproductions0]

I played this game for the first time recently, I highly recommend it if you’re interested in retro games

[@Adam-xd9tr]

Thanks for listing how to improve the GOG version. I own Ultima Underworld but haven't played it yet, so I'll go through the fixes before playing. The lizardman puzzle kind of reminded me of Heaven's Vault, which is an adventure game about deciphering an ancient language as an archeologist. Seems like it would be up your alley.

[@Voidbrand]

You're welcome, the Unity version is actually playable from start to finish I read, but it still needs to be ironed out. And that game seems interesting, maybe I'll check it out one day.

[@horrido666]

Finding ruin tiles to unlock magic spells was a milestone in game design. This game is on the level of the original Half Life when it comes to significance in computer gaming.

[@youuuuuuuuuuutube]

Great review. Hope you do more of them.

[@CooperMcKay]

Never played the Ultima games but this one and VII look cool. The graphics in underworld look pretty for a 1992 DOS game. Great review!

[@Voidbrand]

Thanks. I think Underworld looks nice even today. Just wish I played it when I was younger.

[@demonicsuperiordruid]

Great video, glad I came across your channel! I'd love to see Ultima 6-7-8 videos, tell us why YOU love them! (:

[@Voidbrand]

It's been awhile since I've played 6, but I'll definitely do a video on 7 & 8, and even 9 (the best Ultima in the series *joking*).

[@LevinQGame]

Wasdx was interesting coming so early in the controls timeline.

[@a100267]

Great review. Brought back some happy memories. If I remember rightly the digital speech was only available on the CD-ROM version as I never had that when I originally played the games but I picked up the CD-ROM a couple of years later because it had become dirt cheap by then. I loved both UU games. After completing UU1 I hit UU2 soon after but I think I must have done something wrong like do some of the quests in the wrong order or maybe it was a bug but I found myself having completed all the quests I knew of but not knowing how to complete the game. I just kept teleporting from level to level trying to work out what I had to do next but never figured it out. Oh and it's simple to get the game to run properly; just install it on a 386 :)

[@Voidbrand]

I'm looking forward to replaying Ultima Underworld II again. After playing Underworld I it's honestly my favorite, though Underworld I is excellent of course.

[@yaldabaoth2]

1:05 Hah, the good old "put the item into the companion so they can't complain that YOU stole" trick.

[@Voidbrand]

I'm happy someone noticed that lol.

[@DarrylCross]

This was my first Ultima game - I was about 10 years old when my uncle introduced me to it. I quite enjoyed it, but unfortunately it was also one of the first games that I experienced the "dead save," and so I had to abandon my progress. Still haven't finished this one.

[@Voidbrand]

I was really worried about stuff like that. I keep hearing issues from various players about bugged inventory a plot important NPC falling in the lava. When the Unity port gets ironed out hopefully that issue will be fixed.

[@Fuckyoubloodymoron]

My first Ultima was Black Gate and I experienced a gamebreaking bug that affected all my save games. I started over and still finished it, it was just that good. It may be responsible for my paranoia regarding savegames though.

[@SleepDepJoel15]

The Lizard Man quests intrigued me, but I don't think I want to suffer through awkward jumping.

[@Voidbrand]

I don't blame you. It's not the worst jumping ever, but it can be (at least) a little frustrating. But worth it.

[@moomah5929]

For me it is the other way around, played through UUW1 but never finished 2. Btw, I got the cheaper CD release with both games on one disc back in the day, the same as The Complete Ultima 7, as I got my first PC in '94. Played the first 6 games on C64 and U6 on PC only later. Need to check which version I have on my MS-DOS PC to not run into this inventory problem. Still have the games and by now the whole series, incl. Savage Empire and Martian Dreams, as Big Box games on the shelves behind me. While I love U7, like stacking boxes in Trinsic at the beginning of the game to use as stairs to get on the roof of one of the buildings (was it the smithy), hugging the chimney to enter the secret rooms with all the important quest items, magic armour and teleporters to all over Britannia, I still find U6 batter as is has turn based combat and not his odd system from U7. PS: Jumping reminds me of the problems with an unpatched Pagan, where it was also a pain. Well, the main problem in UUW is getting the right speed to jump far enough but not too far to bounce back. You can get used to it after while, to a certain degree. PPS: I regret never sending in clear data to get a certificate from Origin for clearing an Ultima game. PPPS: Richard, what did you do to Shroud?! Neurath & Spector, what did you do to Underworld Ascendant?! I feel betrayed!

[@CZpersi]

It is interesting to see the influence of Ultima Underworld in System Shock (same publisher, Origin, which was also more a dungeon crawler rather than FPS.

[@Voidbrand]

System Shock remake is out now too. I heard it's pretty good.

[@user-kd5ty1ij3t]

Thank you for the really well-made video! Started playing Ultima Underworld for the first time soon after watching it, and so far I am having a blast. I think this game could have easily gained a new audience, if it would get a decent modern rerelease and a Steam page, like what happened with System Shock after the Enhanced Edition came out.

[@Voidbrand]

You're welcome, I'm glad you liked it enough to give the game a try! And I agree, an Enhanced Edition of Ultima Underworld like with System Shock would be a great alternative. Even for the sequel.

[@joe--cool]

There is Underworld Ascendant. I think it's -still being updated- abandoned. It flew a bit under radar though. Probably because it was never what the Kickstarter promised.

[@7hkey]

@@joe--cool Due to my love for UW I was a backer for Ascendant. What came out is utterly offensive to what was promised. And as for being in any way reminiscent of UW: it doesn't even have NPCs to dialogue with.

[@BTG514]

It's basically Skyrim in a volcano. Loved it.

[@Tsunkuotaku]

i had the shareware version of this and i played the hell out of it, even though you couldnt get to the 2nd floor, sleep, or cast spells. Picked it up for free on GoG 2 years ago and I loved it...until the slog kicks in around floor 6. Made it to the last floor and I stopped playing. I really want to finish it, but I also kinda don't. Great review, btw. Will keep an eye out for others.

[@Voidbrand]

I paid for it I think, and yeah it drags towards the end. Good to see I'm not alone in that! And thanks a bunch, it's appreciated. 👍

[@SimonPrefontaineGames]

Thanks for the awesome video! Keep making essays :)

[@Voidbrand]

Thank you for the encouraging words. I have another one coming in a few days, pretty much done with it. ✌️

[@andynn6691]

Got the demo on 5.25" floppy and explored every pixel of the first level and killed every monster. One of the best gaming experiences ever.

[@radarodonnell]

If you dislike jumping in this game, try the vanilla Ultima 8. The hardest part of the entire game was finding the right pixel to jump from... The newer version are SOOO much nicer!

[@Voidbrand]

I've heard nightmares about Pagan's pre-patched jumping. I'm glad I played the patched CD version back in the day, no issues at all with it even after a replay a few years ago. Though the "jump" from 7 to 8 must've shocked a lot of OG fans back then.

[@danieltilson4053]

This is one of the first PC games I ever played, and still one of my favorites

[@Aggrofool]

The Druid and Paladin proficiencies (DEX INT and STR INT) were mistakenly swapped in Underworld 1.

[@FeelingShred]

even before World of Warcraft, Paladins never had an easy time huh? the memes 🤣🤣🤣poor paladins

[@hm09235nd]

Omg! Left-handed option needs to be in all games. I’m sure 11% of you all would agree.

[@kbsanders]

I watched Lobosjr play this for a bit and he was able to use some sort of mouse-look mod to help with the navigation.

[@Voidbrand]

I saw his playthrough pop up on KZbin awhile back. It's cool that he's playing this. Though he's likely finished by now.

[@samghost13]

Pagan is my fav. Ultima. Would be Awesome to get a good remake. Good stuff!

[@Voidbrand]

I'd like to talk about Pagan one day on here. Thank you.

[@sherrihaight2724]

Hint: when you get a rune that tells you NOT to use, don't use it! It will not only affect you in game character BUT DELETE YOUR SAVES. In my case I was very far into game, got curious when it popped up so saved and tried it just to see what happened. I lost all clothes and gear and was then permanently stuck amidst a lava flow, unable to go anywhere. And when I went to reload---it was GONE!! It went meta! Trolled cruelly. I never did finish it. Still bugs me. 30 years later. Lol

[@Voidbrand]

Wow I don't think I ran across that rune. I thought you were talking about the Armageddon spell, which does what you say except for getting stuck in lava, but I reloaded and everything was fine. Would be pretty funny if it nuked my saves too, which would be fitting. Sounds like something Yoko Taro (creator of NieR) would do, but I don't think Origin were that devious.

[@sherrihaight2724]

@Voidbrand I found the rune in a box on little rock sticking out in lava. I had fire boots so was safe. When I saw the rune I used it right there, thus I was trapped in impossible situation once I was both naked and also unable to load back up save.

[@sherrihaight2724]

@Voidbrand wow if same rune, you could reload?? It would be a very very weird coincidence if a strange bug destroyed saves at the exact moment I got an "told you not to do that hahaha FU" message from casting that spell.

[@7hkey]

Obviously at the time, I tried the spell, too, it deleted everything in the world, my saves were still there.

[@eclat4641]

I love reviews like this .

[@shamanschlong]

Love these types of reviews!

[@LumocolorARTnr1319]

This video does not show up under your "videos" but youtube recommended it in my feed, else I would have never found it.

[@lux2625]

Good video, I don't know much about the last one. I more or less played 7 on my psp. What will be the next game you will review? elder scrolls battlespire?

[@Voidbrand]

Thank you. 👍No Battlespire, though I am interested in trying it out one day (never played it). The next one is a (retro) dungeon crawler, not an entirely well known one, but it'll be out in a few days.

[@PapiNewGunie]

I remember playing this as a kid. I was pretty young so I didn't get very far. It came with a bundle that had Ultima 7 + Black Gate (I couldn't get it to work), Ultima 8 ( I played it a lot but didn't get very far - pretty intense intro on the pier with the lurker). I also remember playing a game called "Shadow Caster", not sure if you ever played it, but it would be interesting to see your thoughts on it. Anyway I really enjoyed your video and just subscribed.

[@Voidbrand]

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the video. One day I'll do a video on Ultima 7 once I feel I can do it justice, it's my favorite game in the series. I read the floppy disc version was a pain to get running due to EMS memory and having to create a boot disc, all things I avoided thankfully. Ultima 8 I would like to do as well, my thoughts on it go against the grain, so to speak. I have heard of Shadowcaster. Actually tried checking it out on GOG, but apparently they don't have it available.

[@FeelingShred]

Shadow Caster and Black Crypt very interesting games I still have to try... I can't remember who made Shadow Caster, I just remember it using the id Software Wolfensten 3D engine on it... and Black Crypt was Raven Software, which would go on to make Heretic and Hexen games

[@PapiNewGunie]

@@FeelingShred For some reason I think it was also Raven that made Shadow Caster.

[@FeelingShred]

Yeah, Raven Software but published by Origin 👍

[@spinal_nerd]

This game was really ahead for its time. Differently from Wolf3D or Doom, this game was in real 3D. That's why you could look up and down and jump.

[@firstandlastname6194]

I grew up playing this game and you're right, you look back on it as an experience that nothing has quite replicated since. It had insanely immersive atmosphere for the time. Resting for the night in some dark hallway with high ceilings that make you feel small and waking up in pitch blackness with kzbin.info/www/bejne/eXKpdKGZfduMm7c playing was mind blowing. The game had this lonely beauty, and this amazing feeling of exploration.

[@Voidbrand]

The atmosphere of isolation with only freakish monsters for company the further deeper you go was something I really liked. Those last 2 floors really felt like areas where civilization didn't dare go.

[@firstandlastname6194]

I'd say give the second one a try when you feel up to it. It has that feeling of being trapped but its a whole castle of people who find themselves isolated. Someone has to venture downward. Its more connected with Ultima being that the first game was never meant to be part of the Ultima world and was taken up later in development as far as I understand. Underworld 2 is very memorable, strong on atmosphere. It feels more linear. The 'overworld' (term not existing for about 15 years at the time) is like the Ultima Underworld I fondly remember. Ultima Underworld 1 is superior as an immersive sim. Ultima Underworld 2 follows the same rules but is more curated in its levels. Underworld 1 is best. But stealing a whole bunch of food from Castle British and fighting a guerilla battle with all the staff through the secret passages was this GTA like urge I had that was hard to shake. When you're done messing around with the NPC's there is actually a decent game there, its just not the immersive sim that Underworld 1 was. Soundtrack for 2 is dope though. Once again, there is a strange beauty to waking up next to a subterranean river with this playing. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mImXpIOJjdJmiJI

[@Voidbrand]

@First AND last name I managed to play through it a year ago actually. I love it, especially because of its connection to Ultima VII. I'm definitely going to revisit it soon, playing The Stygian Abyss right after Underworld II back then hit me with some burn out.

[@firstandlastname6194]

@@Voidbrand Do an Ultima 7 video, you probably already are.

[@Voidbrand]

@First AND last name Not yet. It's something I want to do for sure, but not for awhile.

[@jonathancapps1103]

Could you really steal and kill freely in Ultima VII? Technically, you _could_ act that way in Ultima VI, but there was a hidden morality mechanic that gated the final zone for longer the less virtuous you behaved. IIRC, with enough bad karma you could get permanently locked out of the area, making the game unbeatable on that save file.