Ultimate Frank Miller v Tom King Showdown Compilation

Taken from the October 5th, 2017 "Over 75 Years of Batman" 'edition of "Talks at Google" this compilation offers a collection of highlights & best moments as Frank Miller (Sin City, 300, Batman: The Dark Knight) repeatedly roasts Tom King (Batman: Rebirth, The Vision, Mister Miracle, The Sheriff of Babylon).
DC Comics' Sean Murphy, Tony Patrick & James Tinion IV also appear.
Original Uncut Program:
• Over 75 Years of Batma...

[@TweeterTrash]

IS IT POSSIBLE THAT TOM KING DIDN'T JUST WRITE HIMSELF AS BATMAN, BUT ALSO AS CATWOMAN!?!? DECIDE FOR YOURSELF: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i6ulp2Sjbdior6s

[@treek10k]

Jesus Christ died for your sins on the cross. Repent and believe in him or you will be separated from God The Father for all eternity and face hell forever, for all eternity, never ending.

[@jacob_ian_decoursey_the_author]

I agree with Sal from Comic Pop: Frank Miller might not be at his literary peak anymore, but he would make an excellent editor at DC. He’s an ideas man. He works well with other writers and artists. And his love and understanding of the characters would make him an excellent creative team leader.

[@treek10k]

Jesus Christ died for your sins on the cross. Repent and believe in him or you will be separated from God The Father for all eternity and face hell forever, for all eternity, never ending.

[@alexandrumarin8981]

Apparently Frank Miller doesn't know how to pull a punch

[@treek10k]

Jesus Christ died for your sins on the cross. Repent and believe in him or you will be separated from God The Father for all eternity and face hell forever, for all eternity, never ending.

[@marciojose1973]

Tom King is coward.

[@SteveSmith-ty8ko]

I don’t think Superman was/is boring, I think it’s good to have a character that has good morals and restraint.

[@adamlee4831]

Superman comes from an era when our heroes were people who we aspired to be. Unlike now when the heroes have to be damaged, relatable characters.

[@falkyrie5228]

@@adamlee4831 That's the thing, I find Superman way more relatable than Batman. His struggles are way more mundane. He feels lonely because he's different, his coworkers don't respect him, the love of his life can't see through his exterior (at the start), he has to figure out how to raise a son (currently), and the list goes on. I love Batman, but his struggles are just way too over the top with the whole "parents murdered in the back of an alley" and "city completely corrupted by crime".

[@treek10k]

Jesus Christ died for your sins on the cross. Repent and believe in him or you will be separated from God The Father for all eternity and face hell forever, for all eternity, never ending.

[@AlriikRidesAgain]

​@@treek10kdude, Superman was made by Jews. He's an immigrant who comes from a different world who came to save us. He's not Jesus. He's Moses.

[@will_da_man_]

The chad Frank Miller vs the virgin Tom King.

[@Ceaaa22]

I like Frank Miller a whole lot more now.

[@davidgrantlloyd]

Frank Miller rocks. He is so right when he said: "Superman is not a boring character, just read the stuff Siegel and Shuster were doing." Very true. Frank also wrote a cool Superman with his Year One storyline.

[@davidgrantlloyd]

Plot holes aren't an uncommon thing with comics, mainstream continuity included, or even other creative mediums. It happens from time to time. But, for the record, I wasn't really looking for a debate or anything like that, I was just expressing my enthusiasm, which was simply: Frank Miller rocks, I appreciate his nod to Siegel and Shuster (who also rock) and I thought Superman Year One was cool. Cheers.

[@treek10k]

Jesus Christ died for your sins on the cross. Repent and believe in him or you will be separated from God The Father for all eternity and face hell forever, for all eternity, never ending.

[@CanadianMikeTV]

It isn't that Tom King wants to be Batman, it's that he wants Batman to become Tom King.

[@TweeterTrash]

So True. Which makes me wonder... What did Bane ever do to Tom King? 🤔 iGuess we'll never know. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@alkebulanawah4242]

So true man

[@feliperisseto9113]

@@TweeterTrash fuck...

[@TweeterTrash]

AFTER MUCH CONSIDERATION I'VE TAKEN THIS IDEA A STEP FURTHER. I THINK TOM KING ALSO WROTE HIMSELF INTO THIS STORY AS CATWOMAN. WHAT'S THE BIGGEST POWER PLAY HERE? TO WRITE HIMSELF INTO THE ROLE OF A POPULAR SUPERHERO IN ORDER TO WRESTLE WITH SOME PERSONAL ISSUES, OR TO EXPLORE HIS FEMININE SIDE & WRITE HIMSELF INTO THE ROLE OF A POPULAR SUPERHERO'S LOVE INTEREST IN WHICH HIS FEMININE SIDE BECOMES THE STAR & IS ABLE TO THEN, BY BECOMING THAT SUPERHERO'S MAIN FOCUS & OBJECT OF DESIRE, COMPLETELY DISMANTLE, DECONSTRUCT & ULTIMATELY DESTROY THAT SUPERHERO.... ONLY TO SAVE HIM IN THE END. I HAVE A PICTURE I FOUND THAT KIND OF ALLUDES TO THIS THEORY. I SHOULD PROBABLY MAKE A QUICK VIDEO ON IT.

[@alkebulanawah4242]

@@TweeterTrash I wont be surprised if you are right

[@ericluchon5401]

Frank Miller is the authority on this panel.

[@kadenarnett528]

Tom King was too dumb to know Frank Miller was making fun of him.

[@kylenewberry9792]

You are too dumb to know that Tom King and Frank Miller are personal friends now to this day lol. Sorry dude but the guy you think is a big dummy gets to be friends with the dude you worship. Sucks to suck, try crying about it.

[@kylenewberry9792]

You are too dumb to know that Tom King and Frank Miller are personal friends now to this day lol. Sorry dude but the guy you think is a big dummy gets to be friends with the dude you worship. Sucks to suck, try crying about it.

[@rcbmmines4579]

Frank Miller, despite All Star and TDKSA, still understands Batman better than most. Looking at I am Gotham I thought King understood Batman well enough. But as his run went on.... His Batman went from inspiring kids to take on fear and be their own heroes (like Gotham), to slapping Tim Drake over bringing up his ex, alienating his family, being depressed and broken over being Batman and spending dozens of issues crying over a failed wedding in his nightmares. What happened?

[@TweeterTrash]

To be fair, Batman didn't "slap" Tim Drake... He Straight Up Cold-Cocked That Kid! ...b-b-but it was all Bane's Fault! LOLz Yeah... No one really knows what happened there, & iGuess no one ever WILL know either. Any plans that Tom may have had about providing any sort of definitive explanation for The SoyBat in the final 30-ish issues of this Epic Tale have all been scrapped. ...and after all tbe big talk about fundamentally altering the character, possibly forever, that they were letting him put out there, too. ---🤸- • (whew) Dodged THAT Bullet!

What the fuck do you mean All Star Batman and Robin and DK2 are great you pleb.

[@MutantsInDisguise]

I don't think Miller understands Batmat at all. TDKR has aged poorly.

[@rcbmmines4579]

TheDarkTicoKnight12 Oh he does. More than most. At least maybe he did once. Definitely with TDKR and as someone who just reread and rewatched the book and animated adaptation recently, and first experienced them not ten years ago, they definitely aged well. Remember the context. This is a Batman at a dark stage of his life. Perhaps the darkest. Decades of pain and suffering and one decade of watching the world fall. Even then though he doesn’t kill (despite what Zack Snyder thinks). He still has some compassion and honor. He still does his best to set an example for the Sons of Batman. He is still Batman. A weary, old and nearly broken Batman whose consumed by the Bat side, but Batman nonetheless. It’s clear however that Miller never meant this to be how Batman should be normally. It’s a dark dystopian alternate future after all. Read Year One (which he made after TDKR) or watch he animated adaptation. There he established the fundamentals of modern Batman. One who was a hero who saved the lives of others, especially children, just as much as he would beat up criminals. I remember an interview/essay where Frank said Batman was not all about vengeance. He was bigger than that. He was also about making sure no other child bears the pain he did. It’s why he took in Dick. In that sense, he understood Bruce Wayne more than a lot of people. That’s an idea the best Batman writers and fans would agree with. Morrison, Snyder, Dini, O’Neil etc. Too bad he seems to have forgotten all of those in his later work. TDKSA and All Star are the books that didn’t age well, but really they were never good in the first place and really contradicted his older stuff in a way.

[@MutantsInDisguise]

@@rcbmmines4579 the animated films are 1000 better than the book.

[@nathanmarkel3390]

I know that all of the comments are dunking on King, but I think that a really underrated part of this panel is that Tom King clearly took what Frank Miller said about Superman to heart and turned out one of the character's best stories in Superman Up in the Sky.

[@kat-ld1kb]

just what i was thinking! and you really can feel in Up In the Sky that he did his searching and captured that core motivation for good in him

[@kalenberreman8252]

For all of Frank Miller's faults, he certainly seems like he'd be an interesting guy to talk to.

[@jawnsushi]

Frank brings up 2 points in this that I'll always love and that I wish more people would think seriously about. The first point is at 3:49. "You're mistaking whatever the current trend in thought is for knowing more. Sometimes people are wrong for millennia." The second point is when he starts talking about realism at 7:49.

[@hadesshivabuddhachrist8573]

For Superman there isn't that inciting trauma? Except for his planet being destroyed and wanting to use his great power to lift up his fellow man while being inherently apart from them and pretending to be less than he is in his civilian life to be accepted/ not incur jealousy of what he is from the people he wants to be there for. Yeah, there's nothing in the foundation of the character for a clever writer to work with (rolls eyes). Guess it's just less obvious because instead of being tortured by it Clarks character is a catharsis where he strives for a better tommorow

[@alkebulanawah4242]

Beautiful

[@akap]

Ironically, King's Superman miniseries, Up in the Sky, was amazing... (his Batman still sucks, though).

[@bryanrickard7712]

How does Chuck Dixon, Scott Snyder, Doug Moench or Grant Morrison not get invited to this

[@TweeterTrash]

RIGHT!?

[@TheChadTI]

Jesus Frank is the only one thinking. He's not silently accessing his brain files for talking points.

[@dr.s8972]

Ultimately, despite this clip, Tom Kimg proved that he does really get Superman in Up in the Sky.

[@edwinsolis5710]

Up in the Sky came after this panel so maybe he had a change of heart after this talk.

[@Zomfoo]

Frank shows how a genuine person who knows his craft differs from a pretentious hack trying to sound sophisticated like Tom.

[@treek10k]

Jesus Christ died for your sins on the cross. Repent and believe in him or you will be separated from God The Father for all eternity and face hell forever, for all eternity, never ending.

[@tonygunk4793]

Did Tom King really say "Batman's parents died, there is nothing like that for Superman"?

[@PK-MegaLolCaT]

no he was saying that superman is not motivated by trauma. he just doing good thing cause its the right thing to do.

[@tonygunk4793]

@@PK-MegaLolCaT except he literally said Batman's parents died, there is nothing that for Superman".

[@everyonesfavorite7560]

What he meant was that batman saw his parent murdered in front of him and thats why he does what he does, but superman didnt have any one experience that drives him like batman or spiderman does. Supermwn just does what he does because its the right thing to do

[@tonygunk4793]

@@everyonesfavorite7560 no, losing his entire planet has no affect on him what so ever.

[@everyonesfavorite7560]

@@tonygunk4793 no. Learning that a bunch of people thousands of lightyears away that he didn’t know died many many years ago is not the equivalent of having your parents murdered in front of you. Superman does not do what he does because he learned that krypton was destroyed. He is superman because of the morals and principles instilled in him by ma and pa kent when growing up not because he learned his parents that he never knew blew up 18 years ago. Just like im not putting on a cape and jumping around rooftops because i learned about how my people were enslaved hundreds of years ago. Spiderman and batman have one incident that drives them. Superman doesnt. Superman is just a good guy. Like frank said hes a mentally stable superhero

[@Sammo212]

“VS” makes this seem more antagonistic than it really was :D

[@thestarkknightreturns]

Tom King overthinks his writing for Batman. He's too obvious, too sensitive and too self-therapeutic with it. It's a pain to read lines he wrote for Batman that would never actually say. The worst part is, all his characters "speak" that way. They don't have a mind of their own, they are just as over-expressive as King himself wishes they could be. You can see in King's eyes that he's in pain and grief. He's not gonna find his peace in trashing Batman's writing.

[@sadistikalchemist]

Tom King is probably one of those people who's secretly afraid of his own shadow.

[@overandout7657]

Frank Miller is not roasting anyone, he is just being Frank Miller. You can clearly see how they respect each other and have fun talking about characters that they love - and Tom King respected Frank Miller's idea enough to write Superman: Up in the Sky, which is one of the best Supes stories in years. Trying to frame a normal discussion between artists as a "showdown" is, to be honest, pretty weird...

[@c7po457]

That's a great point. Thanks for sharing it.

[@johnLennon255]

Tom king is still a little crybaby bitch

[@johnLennon255]

@DC lmao so what? The CIA has been doing harm around the world for decades. Fuck them and Fuck Tom ‘little bitch’ king

[@fishin4bass2002]

God Tom king doesn’t understand Batman but he also doesn’t understand people.

[@akap]

Miller said "this isn't a mudhole, it's-" oh, well, you know the rest.

[@Toddler.Titles]

Frank makes me want to like Superman more. It’s ok to be mentally healthy. These new era “creators” need to adjust their mentality to accept that fans like mentally healthy and stable characters. All these yahoos know how to do is deconstruct, they don’t know how to build and how to stabilize, how to maintain.

[@TweeterTrash]

Right On! Anyone can BREAK something that was Great. It takes a special talent to Make something Great to begin with. It usually takes a Got-Damm'd GENIUS to Repair something that was Once Great but the Last Guy Broke. Which is probably why DC slammed on the brakes so quickly after that big tease a couple months back, BEFORE Tom was able to "Fundamentally Change" Batman, Possibly Permanently, by the end of that run. I don't think DC has any Got-Damm'd Geniuses left. At least somebody was smart enough to recognize the Warning Signs & chose to take affirmative action before their current best selling property got demoted to Lobo Status.

Superman had feats of rage since the beginning of creation

[@christophersantos7607]

@ Emotionally, he's only human

[@tannermatheson5105]

Maybe that’s why Supermans book doesn’t sell😂😂😂I love Superman more than I do Batman; but from the wise words of bendis Nobody wants to read about a mentally Healthy Daredevil where he happy for 20 issues and eats a sandwich.😂😂😂

[@tannermatheson5105]

Dottoman 共匪 oh definitely Superman isn’t a tuff but to crack for story he just requires someone who gets him

[@izzymandelbaum8230]

Thanks for uploading these bits!

[@TweeterTrash]

You got it!

[@stuartdriedger9989]

this fool thinks they're fighting when they sound more like good friends disagreeing

[@leonidaswilson9023]

is tom king a fake comic book fan? he looks like one, the way he talks about realism, how he thinks superman is boring, in HiC he shows how little he knows about dc characters that aren't mainstream

[@kadenarnett528]

Frank Miller is hilarious!

[@GoldGregory]

Definitely wasn’t expecting Frank Miller to defend Superman and Tom King to trash him.

[@Peatnik9]

As a long time Miller fan who has been reading through the King run and feeling his Batman is a little goofy...well this video explains a lot. Nice to know I’m not the only one who hates all the goddamn Robins, either!

[@TweeterTrash]

Hey, Peter! If you're getting near the end of King's run or you've already finished Issue #85, THIS IS THE REVIEW FOR YOU! TOM KING'S BATMAN #83: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXqboIFvn7WnjLs If not, check out some of the most recent videos. You may enjoy his take on some of the latest events in comics!

[@aurahoneydew9607]

By that logic Batman: Cult is the greatest "bad fan fiction" of all time. Never be afraid to experiment! That being said making Batwoman his cousin, essentially Supergirl, was one of the *worst* additions to the Batman lore.

[@BuckFangs]

This seems more fun and playful than anything. Expected a roast and repudiation of King's perception of Batman which wasn't the case.

[@alalme7691]

Oof. Tom King reminds me of someone I knew. He was insufferable.

[@ranarchy666]

Tom now just ruins people's lives via Twitter

[@dcguy3]

I feel like Tom King is one of those creators who works best with limitations. Like, almost any mini series he does is brilliant (the exception would be Heroes in Crisis, but part of that cluster F may have been because of editorial meddling. We'll never know for sure). I think them giving him an entire Batman run was a mistake. If he had just done a Batman 6-12 issue mini, it probably would have been amazing

[@porassrivastava8242]

Exactly his vision and Mr. Miracle are great. His on goings with strange adventures, and Batman.

[@kmac892]

"If you can trick them into thinking your writing dark knight then your cool" says it all

[@ed209onthestairs]

Barf. Even Tom King's voice is about to cry.

[@stevenbobo6464]

The way how Frank Miller's talking to Tom King it's similar is how Stan Lee is talking to Rob liefeld and Todd McFarlane!!!

[@sheablack311]

Tom King doesn't think superman is interesting...

[@Minatohittokiri]

It’s a pretty common thought among people

[@facelord2853]

@@Minatohittokiri not really bro

[@joemartinez331]

Superman is boring.

[@schizzo8959]

​@@Minatohittokiri Which people? The ignorant and miserable ones?

[@mulder13x59]

Irk what everyone is talking about they were enjoying eachother. Frank Miller was just being himself. It doesn't look like he dislikes Tom King or anything. They are having fun.

[@sixtyninemangler]

Yeah superman's parents died and he lost a planet BUT he was a baby! Babies don't remember anything. He suffered minimal trauma from that. Having said that I still think he's a very good and interesting character. Having that much integrity while having so much power is respectable. He's an outsider yet has more humanity than most.

[@tarn1135]

sixtyninemangler find out that your parents died when you were a baby can cause trauma. You may not remember it happening but it can cause problems. Also finding out you are not what you thought you were and that all those who are like you are gone can also be traumatic. Now tie that with being bullied, being unable to talk to anyone about what you’re going through, your adoptive father, your hero dying when you had or think you had the power to save him. All that tied together and you have more then minimal trauma, hell you such potential that makes an interesting character.

[@hasthehighground8560]

I think the real trauma comes from the fact that he didn’t know. It hit him like a freight train learning he was an alien and that his entire home world is dead it makes it worse that he didn’t remember anything because he has no real memories of his own from Krypton. That’s why Superman is Earths champion he lost one world that he never got the chance to experience that’s why he loves Earth so much and wants to protect it.

[@dylanthrillmour866]

First he shit on batman, next up is Rorschach. It’s like DC WANTS to alienate its loyal readers.

[@porassrivastava8242]

Rorschach shouldn't be given a series anyway, let watchmen be

[@esdraslopez4658]

Doesnt seem like a showdown, just an exchange of opinions. Im sure they respect each other

[@nerdimmunity6690]

Lol Tom King has destroyed Batman

[@carlitogilchrist1939]

Like 30 Robins! Put 10 Robins over here!

[@keithoneil9894]

Tom King is really gonna tell Frank Miller how to write Batman? Really?

[@jbrisby]

Where did Frank Miller get such an epically broken nose?

[@vaderetro264]

Good luck trying to explain who's Batman to Frank Miller.

[@AsgersWeb]

7:43 Maybe because the ones Batman did it too were street punks who were young adults

[@MrMrNevets]

LoL just realized at 1:50 tom king implicates victimazation as a super power. My god the point is you get over it and get stronger.

[@slasher0630]

Because I am a fan of versatility, we need more Robin Hood

[@Peatnik9]

It’s so refreshing hearing raw takes on Batman among these soft piles.

[@tarn1135]

Sooooo where was this showdown? Don’t get me wrong I really can’t stand Tom and was hoping to see a showdown/takedown but this doesn’t seem to it.

[@TweeterTrash]

IT SEEMED LIKE ONE TO ME. IT WASN'T LIKE A WRESTLING MATCH OR ANYTHING, BUT TOM DID HAVE HIS POSITIONS CHALLENGED & HE HAD TO DEFEND THEM. PRETTY POORLY IN MY OPINION.

[@HENGBUNG]

King and his cancel culture activities is dead. Long live Miller.

[@HENGBUNG]

@DC probably right in this cancel culture he would. Still down with King and long live Miller!

[@davefried81]

Who is Tom King? I mean I see him in the video but who is he? I'm just searching for F Miller clips

[@TweeterTrash]

HE'S A DC WRITER WHO DID AN 83 ISSUE RUN ON BATMAN WHICH ENDED LAST YEAR.

[@davefried81]

@@TweeterTrash ah! Makes sense. I have been out of the game for 2 years now. Gotta catch up

[@dallassegno]

actually it looks exactly like frank and tom are buddies. closer buddies than anyone else

[@TweeterTrash]

There are some pretty good digs in there from Frank, but yeah, I don't see these two mixing it up "after school" anytime soon. Still, watch Tom's body language when Frank is really ribbing on him. I was able to make an entire gif out of his angst. ...also, just for fun, if you do end up going through the footage again to see what I'm talking about, try to find the one frame where Tom looks like he's literally sniffing Frank's fingers! It's worth it! 😤 ✌️

[@TweeterTrash]

@Dazer12 HA HAA! 😃

[@johnLennon255]

Tom king plays with toys. Hes posts them on his Instagram

I see Frank Miller and I remember crazy story about batshit gf he dated in 00's that put his assistant trough hell with excrements in office and shit

[@Carlos-xz3vi]

From this line up I’ve enjoyed Tynion’s comics the best.

[@warnerg80]

More like Tom Queen 😔

[@saulduarte8468]

11:30

[@ssameerhrizvi]

why the F was i not subbed to you.

[@TweeterTrash]

🤷‍♂️ DRUNK?

[@tannermatheson5105]

I’ll be the one to say it I love Tom King and his books sure he did Hero’s in Crisis but Frank did Dark Knight 2. I like Tom kings work; he’s good at making stories. He’s got a lot to learn he’s new a writing compared to most these big wig all star writers. It’s easy to tear people apart and focus on the bad in stories but it’s harder to look at the good and give recognition for the good.

[@rbruggeman7722]

I like DK2

[@dallassegno]

Frank Miller doesn't VS tom king here at all... clickbait

[@emilioblack5633]

Right wing channels said they were fighting so every one thinks they are now

[@guylo88]

Tom king is so soft looking. Other than James Tynion who is even softer looking. you can tell the generational difference between these writers and miller. The stories were better then.

[@somni6756]

Have you read his runs on Mr Miracle?

[@J0r-El]

Both Frank and Tom screwed up Batman at some point in their career, but Frank has written material that changed the course of comics history and pop culture. Tom just turned out to be a puppet for DC to write stories for radical feminists and the LGBTQ+ community. I liked his earlier works like Sheriff of Babylon, but ever since getting on DC's Batman/Catwoman story arc, it began to tank fast thanks to DC telling him what to do.

[@batcow1]

So because he writes gay female characters he's bad, grow up dude

[@J0r-El]

@@batcow1 lol, well whether it involves gender power dynamics and LGBTQ or not, if I don't think the way the story and characters are executed to my liking, am I supposed to like it? I'll answer that for you. "No." Go eat a sausage.

[@batcow1]

@@J0r-El I don't like his run but because it's boring not because he has a diverse cast of characters and themes you can go eat a sausage unless thats too gay for you too

[@J0r-El]

@@batcow1 Oh, well, interesting to hear. And yes, I had my sausage this morning way before this...stupid argument. By the way, when I meant sausage, I wasn't referencing to anything gay. I was just telling you to shut up and eat a pork link. So you are totally misunderstood, Benjie.

[@somni6756]

Wait, so King's batman run may have gone on too long and become indulgent, but at least he didn't write All-Star Batman and Robin... Clearly Miller doesn't understand Batman as well as he used too.

[@peterburman5193]

Tom King is a talented writer but not for Batman

[@leonevelake]

Heroscin crisis makes me think " not for anyone "

[@ScoobieDoobie197474]

First. 😂🤣😂

[@TweeterTrash]

Darnit! I NEVER Get First. 😁

[@salalonci7435]

Tom King is a brilliant writer and his run on Batman is one of the best of all time.