Ultimate Heat Treat Cell | Part 1

[@malteser0212]

Quick tip for bacterial and algae growth in the water tank: the pc watercooling coolant manufacturer mayhems makes a biocide, specifically for watercooling systems. It works in most loops, whether copper, aluminium, all mixed.... A silver coil is said to do the same thing. What would be another alternative is copper sulfate (the blue powder). A few granules per gallon are all it takes to reduce growth to zero.

[@MrLP10o]

@32:03 Watch out for galvanic corrosion if using SS fittings in aluminum with water (electrolyte)!

[@johnfurr8779]

Nice video. I learned a few tricks to implement on my own system once I get a heat treatment oven. So let me share a few tips in return based on my professional experience. Using a coolant blend will eliminate issues with both metal corrosion and microorganism growth and provide long term protection of your expensive quenching plates. In addition to the anticorrosion properties of engine coolant additives, the ethylene and propylene glycol in such coolants inhibits the growth and proliferation of most microbes and fungi when the glycol concentration is maintained at or above 20%. Fun fact: The reduced surface tension in the glycol solution disrupts the cell walls of the bacteria and other microorganisms of they sort of pop like a balloon. So any errant organisms that get into the coolant from the source water or shop air when mixing the coolant die a gruesome death and your coolant stays clean. Mix up your coolant from distilled water (or reverse osmosis water) and Prestone yellow antifreeze at a 4 to 1 ratio. Four parts water to one part antifreeze PLUS about one cup of additional antifreeze. NO LESS, the additional cup of antifreeze assures that 20% concentration will provide a slight margin of error and make up for the small amounts of other additives in the antifreeze. Oh and your coolant is maintained well above freezing so higher glycol concentrations are not necessary. Now you need to preserve and protect the coolant by having a closed loop coolant system. Use a 5 gallon pail with gasketed lid as your reservoir, such pails are ubiquitous in the Canadian urban environment and will prevent the evaporation of your coolant components. Simple bore holes in the lid will provide access for your coolant lines. There is no need for grommets or anything if you use holes not much larger than your tubing. Next time use a contraflow fluid flow design. It is a shame that you already milled the aluminum billets for your quench plates because had I known before you did I'd have ensured that you used a contraflow loop design which yields the most even temperatures across the surface area. Consider it for your next design if you want to have the most even temperature distributions across the quench plates as possible.

[@DarkArtGuitars]

I love getting the visuals to what we've been hearing you discuss on the BOM for the last months, super cool! Some small notes and tips for your nerdyness: - The IR thermometer doesn't read shiny surfaces correctly, so if you want to measure the actual temp of the plates it is not great. Adding some electrical tape or other non reflective thing will give you a more accurate reading. - For getting an even temperature across the plate flowrate is everything. The faster the better. I'm happy to see you're upgrading the pump, hope the filter doesn't restict the flow too much. - Lastly, I can understand you don't necessarily want to add a biocide to the water for environmental reasons, but just adding a small silver piece (they even sell silver spirals for that reason) is a good natural antimicrobial solution. (the same thing might be a good idea for your coolant replenishing tank, though you might need quite a large silver spiral for that volume)

[@derek1ee]

Hey John, have you considered using a stack of belleville disc springs? Instead of user closing the plate, the belleville discs would keep the plates "normally closed", when a blade is out, lever to open the gap, insert the blade and release the lever. This way the force is always exactly the same from the discs as configured, instead of having to hold onto the level to apply constant force. As for the cooling part - why not just flip the plate with the channel, so that the channel faces the blade rather than away from it. This way, the thiner plate that's making contact with the blade, will also do the sealing, and you can resurface the top plate without having to rework the one with water channel/disconnect hoses/etc..

[@frikkied2638]

Use a weight to pull down on the arbor press to get a consistent force. To save the operator from lifting the weight all day you can build a foot actuated fulcrum to lift the weight enough to slip it over the handle.

[@supermannyg3]

Here’s a suggestion, add a spacer / washer in between each blade for cryo. This will ensure that each blade is exposed to the same amount of liquid nitrogen at the same time on each side.

[@brett7098]

A thin spacer may not help as much as intended given the ferocity of boiling; it could still produce an air gap.

[@flagdrones]

I wish I would have watched this one earlier.. a simple clamp on UV lamp on the return tube will kill the bacteria on the press coolant system and significantly reduce the enterobacter promoting in your filters. The RO should be more than sufficient and adding a simple, inexpensive UV will really help. Your local water treatment company should have one in stock. No biocide necessary in changing the water chemistry either. Great video, love my new Norseman fellas.

[@kylejacobs1247]

You could also have a spring loaded frame between the top and bottom cooling plate. This would keep the blades from touching the bottom plate as you transition to the arbor press handle. With just springs on the bottom the top would touch first for a fraction of a second. Alternatively springs above and below the frame would compress simultaneously, so the cooling plates touch at roughly the same time

[@felixm.8910]

Great job improving your processes! But I have three suggestions, one I made 4 years ago when you went with the arbor-press-method: Why not use a pneumatic cylinder with two-hand-actuation, so you get the same force EVERY time, regardless of who is quenching the blades? This relieves the person needing to press the handle down and gives consistency for the process. You could even add a timer, so the cylinder moves back up, after a set time. The second is to use PC watercooling fluid, since it has all the bio inhibitors and anti corrosion stuff in it. My third idea is to see what happens if you route the water from the reservoir, to the top-plate, then the bottom-plate, then back to reservoir. This should ensure, that the two plates get the closest possible temperature gradient. Keep on improving!

[@Gilbolas]

A horizontal hydraulic press could be activated by pressing and holding two buttons simultaniously, which are set one meter apart (left and right side of the machine). This would prevent finger injuries, since the hands arent free to move. When one button is released, the press would stop but hold pressure, so one could release the buttons to let the blade cool down under pressure, without holding the buttons. I guess an existing Press could be easily modified this way. A second button could be soldered in series with the closing button. There needs to be a holding mechanism for the hot blade, to keep it from tipping or beeing off axis. A long holding clamp (Z axis) comes to mind. This could hold on to the Bag? which the Knife seems to be in. The Knife would point downward, with the clamp behind it and the hydraulic actuated cooling plates coming in from the sides. This clamp could be operated manually to lock it, or automatically with a button on the left side. The button would be close to the left hydraulic activation button, to have a fast operating speed. Right hand with the pincher with the hot knife, the left to activate the button for the clamp. again no hands free to sqish. I imagine the the procedure like this: left hand: open oven right hand with the pincher: grab hot knive left hand: close oven right hand: orient knive into position for the clamp. (since the clamp would be in the Z axis, I would orient the oven differently, so the hot knives are in the right orientation to grab onto without repositioning of the pincherhand.- this saves time and prevents carpaltunnel problems in the long run) left hand: activates clampbutton, moves directly up or down a few centimeters to the left hydraulicbutton. right hand: put pincher down, move to right hydraulic button right and left hand: press and hold hydraulicbuttons until desired pressure is reached. release buttons. Wait for cooldown. press and hold releasebutton. There could be automation with a timer which starts after the release of (one of) the hydraulic buttons and resets when pressing the opening button on the hydraulic press -for a constistent cooldown time. greetings from germany J.

[@Proud2bmodest]

Two button start systems are not considered safe because a second person could reach in around the operator. It's very difficult to properly guard around pinch point. It's better to use light curtains or similar type of protection to prevent any access to the pinch point. Ideally, two or more presses should be used all protected by one light curtain. This allows loading and unloading of one press while the other two are clamped. As long as the presses are prevented from moving when the light curtain is blocked, there won't be any safety hazards.

[@Gilbolas]

@@Proud2bmodest Its true. A two button system is not foolproof if other people are involved. This is a one-man operation tho. People would need to go out of their way to get a finger inbetween the plates, while someone stands infront of the whole thing, -with spread arms. If someone wants to get hurt, they will manage. I would say in this usecase -it would be safe enough. But Im no shop owner. I dont know where they would draw the line. But I agree: it is better safe than sorry.

[@Proud2bmodest]

@@Gilbolas In Canada any press has to pass a safety inspection and the rule is that any pinch point greater than about 3mm has to be guarded. If someone other than the operator decides to suddenly reach under the press or even trips and tries to grab into the press for support, the operator cannot respond fast enough. Even a light curtain with very fine resolution has to be about 25 cm away from the pinch point because of the time required for the curtain and valves to respond. This time is tested during the safety inspection. If the press can be made such that there are no accessible pinch points greater than 3mm, than the press is considered safe and no safety inspection is required.

[@peejay1981]

Make sure the top and bottom quench plates are mounted to the press with some insulation so they both stay the same temperature. It looks like the bottom one has far more contact with the press which would cause it to cool faster. Also, why not add 10% or so automotive coolant into the coolant bucket? Stops corrosion and algae.

[@brett7098]

Warping may come from the liquid nitrogen step: the stack could be causing preferential cooling on one side of the outer two blades. The vigorous boiling is likely causing film boiling between the remaining blades leaving an air gap (i.e., the blades are only cooling from the edges, except for the outer two blades). Possible solution: put a dummy blade on the outer sides of the blade stack.

[@tacticalcenter8658]

Its coming from the cooling plates. Outdoors55 did a video on this. Its how they are implemented, not the plates themselves.

[@brianbarthel12]

Have an aquarium when I lived in the south had a chiller. 2 things 1.Be real careful with sub ambient water around. Water will condense out of the air and introduce a “plate is damp” variable some parts of the year / cycle 2.chillers are self contained air conditioners (and pretty dumb ones) I’d consider one pump to circulate water through the chiller and another for the cooling plates. Last tip ro/di is slightly acidic you are leaching ions into the water I second another commenter on a additive for pc cooling. You can also just add some anti freeze

[@stevebantersb]

I see no problem with your process. It's hand made!

[@HudsonLighting]

I think adding a decent pneumatic ram would free someone up on that press. Lot of wasted waiting. At this point in the video I haven't seen the cooling setup, but just to add we found beer chillers super useful for anodising, I bet they would work great in this application. Takes 8mm-10mm lines typically

[@JHorvathCinema]

For some reason I thought you said you had transitioned to a pneumatic press for quenching? We use pneumatic operated heat presses for textile printing and leather stamping. I’ve converted a few manual presses to pneumatic and it’s not that difficult to get accurate pressures using cams or linkages (think top link of a 4 bar mtn bike suspension) allowing you to trade piston size for stroke length. You could do a double trigger button and even add auto open after a certain time.

[@jongmassey]

And algaecide in the coolant? Interesting to see the PSG still there, i thought youd sold thst when you'd moved shops

[@mikeobrien4081]

Maybe create a wire chandelier-type hanger for the cryo treatment, with eight radially spaced hooks orienting the blade edges or spines towards the center. Would still fit the neck of your liquid nitrogen tank.

[@TheTsunamijuan]

have you considered adding silver anode to your water system? Or has that been disproven as being any benefit to keeping bacterial and algae growth down in water cooling systems.

[@ROTHGLUT]

you could use car coolant for aluminium motors

[@BerndFelsche]

Instead of going harder on the heat transfer plates, perhaps a conformal structure would work better to maximise surface contact. I'm just shooting in the dark here ... thinking a waffle or pins plate that flexes under pressure but has enough metal to conduct heat efficiently into the coolant. In my mind, the largest thermal resistance is that contact between the pouch faces.

[@Proud2bmodest]

A safe way to automate the press is to use a slide to put the blades under the press. The slide will have a feature which will prevent the press from coming down when the slide is slightly open. The rule is that any potential pinch point should be less than about 3 mm to prevent any body part from being inserted. The piston should also have a stop on the up stroke so that it cannot create another pinch point between the piston and the bottom stop. With no possible pinch points, the press will be considered safe, and no other safety controls, and no safety inspection is required. Limit switches can be used to detect the slide position with a locking pin used to hold the slide closed during the cooling cycle. A PLC can be used to run multiple presses with light indicators for showing when a cycle is done. By using multiple presses, the operator is free to do other tasks while the cooling cycle is running. Pneumatic cylinders can be used to operate the press with an electronic pressure gauge used to monitor air pressure and ensure that the correct force is always applied. Cylinder position sensors or limit switches can also be used to verify that the cylinder movement is correct. Some PLCs come with a built in display which can be used to display operating and error messages which can be handy for troubleshooting.

[@P8ntbaLLA56]

The delta between the top and bottom plates will 100% cause issues with bow. I'd bet that's more important than pressure. I'll bet whichever side has the colder plate will be the inside of your bow.

[@tacticalcenter8658]

Fact

[@lvxleather]

I wonder if there's anyone who DOESN'T buy shoulder bolts and other shop odds and ends from McMaster lol 😄 Skye is a smart kid, I can see a bright future for him in the industry.

[@tylergilbertson4086]

Can you add automotive coolant to the quench plates to prevent bacteria build up?

[@ingentingbra]

What you are doing is quickly cooling it down is to get Martensite, which is very hard crystalline structure. If you cool it down slower you will ger ferrite and austenite instead.

[@greasemonkey2014]

Why not add automotive antifreeze to the quenching system? That would prevent algae as well as corrosion.

[@BerndFelsche]

316 (A4) fasteners are much cheaper than aerospace. Replace at intervals to offset age effects.

[@BerndFelsche]

P.S. Maybe look at electric letter openers for those stainless pouches. Two rotating cutter wheels with the edge of the envelope passing between. Alternative is a bespoke guillotine with two blades at right angles to cut off two edges at once, when the envelope is pushed against a corner. That should be able to deal with a range of envelope (blade) sizes.

[@lessercylinder]

Thermal compound *would* do absolute wonders for heat transfer.

[@danmenes3143]

Those kant-twist clamps look zinc-plated to me. Zinc fumes are notoriously toxic, and I would be nervous about putting zinc through the tempering oven. You can strip the zinc plating off with acid. I like to use Lime-a-way or CLR (aka sulfamic acid), which is more aggressive than vinegar, and less nasty to deal with than muriatic acid.

[@Banjoandguns]

You should fly me in there I have tons of ideas feeding off your ideas. I’m a problem solver I like this stuff.

[@TjinDeDjen]

Why don't you just use the same coolant (Qualichem iirc) as you use in your cnc machines? Shouldn't that get rid of the gunking up problem? Or just look into PC custom water cooling supplies, they have been working on all these problems for decades now and there are many solutions. But I mean, buying an expensive filtered industrial pump is probably fine, too ;)

[@user-cg2iq5qs2y]

As a guy working in the industrial oven industry, I would probably just design a retort oven around a 1000pcs of these blades with an automatic squishing mechanism built in to the part holding tray and when they done in the oven, I would instantly quench them in the integrated liquid nitrogen chamber This way you could speed up and simplify the process, provide less soul sucking repetitive jobs for the crew, and free him up to provide more value to the company. I think your company isn’t rich enough to was money in avoiding automation where it’s clearly feasible

[@JohannSwart_JWS]

Heat does not rise. Its only in air, and even then, its the colder more dense air that sinks, and displaces warmer air upwards. All due to gravity. So no, not in solids.

[@jamesbarisitz4794]

Hang a UV light in the tank. No more bacteria.

[@garrett9186]

laser temperature devices don't give a perfect measurement. A glossy surface will read at a higher temperature.

[@tacticalcenter8658]

Amatures. I dont get why anyone would pay that much money for an amature making a knaf in 154 or 34 and they dont even know what they are doing except for the cnc work after years of trial and error and included in the price. I could get a Reate thats better in every way. Or a step above, a Koneig arias. Higher end steel and heat treatments.

[@alanparker1952]

whats up with the nose ring lmao

[@DeKempster]

Measuring a reflective surface with an IR thermometer, not gonna work. You should know better