My favorite commentary on the coal turbine was made by someone in the UP shops. Somebody asked him what the coal turbine sounded like when it was running. The response was “About the same as the other turbines, except for the occasional sound of a turbine blade going through the side of the casing.”
@kimmer69 ай бұрын
I was a Field Engineer for General Electric. The oldest version the GE Frame 3 gas turbine was known as a ''5 bearing'' unit and was the unit used in locomotives. It was a 1950's design. In 1979, GE sent me to BAPCO, Bahrain Petroleum Company in the Persian Gulf. They still had a 5 bearing unit driving a hydrogen compressor in a unit called the Platformer. The operators tended to push the turbine too hard and burnt the first stage blades off it once. I was there to direct the replacement of the gas turbine with the spare unit they had in storage. The spare unit failed almost immediately. There was tremendous pressure on me to get it up and running again as it was reported that the revenue loss with the Platformer Unit shut down was $400,000 per day. It could not be repaired in place. The gas turbine was sent to the GE Service Shop in Manama, Bahrain, and was disassembled for inspection. It was found that the first stage turbine wheel had cracks in it, therefore, it was condemned. You don't want something that runs at 7100 rpm to have cracks in it. Major components like the first stage turbine disk were long ago obsolete and unavailable. The fix was to contact a railroad museum in Texas...Houston was what I heard... and make a deal to disassemble their locomotive turbine and salvage the 1st stage wheel, reassemble the unit with the cracked one, and charter a plane to fly the part to the Persian Gulf. What a lot of expense and drama! I left Bahrain toward the end of the year and was glad to be gone. There was a lot of animosity toward Westerners after radicals invaded the US Embassy in Tehran and held the Hostages. I heard that the rebuilt turbine was unreliable even with the locomotive parts and was scrapped after they installed a brand new GE 4 bearing 2 shaft frame 3 gas turbine. I can't imagine the insanity of feeding pulverized coal to a gas turbine. What were they thinking?
@huzaifarashid19 ай бұрын
Quite an anecdote mate
@844SteamFan9 ай бұрын
3:18 I think this photo was taken from Vinton St. in Omaha with the train heading South, probably going to turn West onto Lane’s Cutoff at Summit. Some things that helped me identify the location are the Rock Island switcher and that elevated track on the right. The Rock Island line only followed the UP tracks in Omaha from Downtown to a bit South of Q St. and the elevated line is the CB&Q, they needed to gain elevation to go over everyone else at Summit. Between the Rock Island switcher and CB&Q line is the MoPac line. I think that first bridge in the background is Martha St. When I thought this was taken South of Summit I wasn’t sure why 80 wouldn’t take Lane’s Cutoff and was taking the original line instead, so it makes sense that they weren’t South of Summit at that point. They also couldn’t have been going South past Gilmore Jct. (where the MoPac line branched off the OG UP line) onto the MoPac line.
@SleepTrain4569 ай бұрын
I've heard of this odd experiment, and I found this video quite informative! I didn't know this creature had _25_ axles! Thanks for the video!
@hatem89099 ай бұрын
Its so wild to me that they tried this AFTER the GTEL's... Youd think that all the problems of the GTEL's (maintenance, sound, low speed inefficiency) would just be worse. Leave it to UP... Hope we do get a vid on GE 609 too
@mprooveit35889 ай бұрын
Perhaps it was in the development queue at the same time, but finished later?
@hatem89099 ай бұрын
@@mprooveit3588 well going by the dates, UP would have had a decade of experience with the GTEL's to change their minds, but who knows what goes on in the minds of men who thought this was a good idea.
@ralfie88019 ай бұрын
@@hatem8909 The problem is they’ll do something like this and everybody can see it’s bad and was a mistake, but the manager in charge will never admit he was wrong and will quadruple down insisting he’s right, even if it unalives him in the process.
@LOLHAMMER456782 ай бұрын
Yeah but think of how cheap the fuel is
@Tartaraki8089 ай бұрын
Immediately clicked on it.
@Top-Trains-19439 ай бұрын
Same
@josepantoja50339 ай бұрын
same too
@rottenroads19829 ай бұрын
Me Three.
@BnuuyBoi20059 ай бұрын
Me four
@steamship9999 ай бұрын
Same
@darkchaotix1productions3269 ай бұрын
Ah yes, Union Pacific's frankenstein, gotta wonder what they were thinking when building it.
@dustin_45019 ай бұрын
Coal was a well use source of power, UP maybe thought they could revap things, and still could use it.
@darkchaotix1productions3269 ай бұрын
@@dustin_4501that would've been the case, had oil proven much more efficient, and cheaper, (which would also be why ACE3000 didn't make the cut if memory serves).
@frankymorales56479 ай бұрын
To be fair, it WAS the 60’s. So…you know…
@dustin_45019 ай бұрын
@@darkchaotix1productions326 Such a shame as they say...
@dustin_45019 ай бұрын
@@frankymorales5647 Bet UP managment was too old to wanna have a join...
@Shipwright19189 ай бұрын
If they wanted a coal burning locomotive, probably should've kept all those steamers that burned it just fine.
@scottanno88619 ай бұрын
Exactly. Big Boy alone could steam over 6,000 horsepower, and all of these "coal turbines" *combined* made just over 7,000 horsepower. I think they were just so embarrassed in the "modern" 1960s to go back to such an "old" design 😅
@mprooveit35889 ай бұрын
@@scottanno8861 But then you gotta maintain a boiler, feed it water, etc.
@horsepowermultimedia5 ай бұрын
They could've easily connected a Big Boy's boiler to a piston that was connected to a generator.
@davidgrisez9 ай бұрын
There have been previous KZbin videos that basically mentioned that Union Pacific RailRoad did experiment with burning coal in a gas turbine and that the experiment was a failure. Gas turbines work great with natural gas and various liquid fuels, but never with coal. Coal is a solid fuel and contains ash, silica and other solids that will grind and tear up the blades in the gas turbine. And that was basically what happened with Union Pacific's experiment of burning coal in a gas turbine.
@Dilbert-o5k8 ай бұрын
A bit like flying a plane through a volcanic ash cloud😊
@yetidynamics9 ай бұрын
would have worked better if they had the coal heat up water, turn it into steam, and use the steam to drive the turbines... oh wait.
@OfficialSEIC2K69 ай бұрын
The infamous coal turbine. One too many axles. The coal turbine was extremely troublesome. Great big rolling flop. Nice mini documentary.
@SpencerHHO9 ай бұрын
I've heard of coal being ground into a fine slurry with water and injected into very high compression diesel engines with special pumps and injectors but this.... trying to burn coal in a gas turbine is insane. I would have assumed they would use a steam turbine like modern coal power plants...
@Sckuttle9 ай бұрын
I saw an engine similar to this at the Illinois Railway Museum last year,I thought that was what this was for a moment(what I saw was UP no.X-18,the biggest engine ever built by the Union Pacific)
@SynchroScore9 ай бұрын
We've also got a DD40 to go with it.
@Metra167Productions8 ай бұрын
@@SynchroScore 6930!
@BnuuyBoi20059 ай бұрын
It is very interesting that UP used a Coal Turbine, never thought of that before. Pity that it wasn't successful
@filanfyretracker9 ай бұрын
not what I expected, I read coal and turbine and somehow expected that they tried to drive a train using a steam turbine getting its steam from a typical coal fired boiler.
@mprooveit35889 ай бұрын
Norfolk & Western and Chesapeake & Ohio both had Baldwin-built steam turbines powered by coal, built in 1954 and 1947-48, respectively.
@米空軍パイロット9 ай бұрын
That's what I expected too. Proven technology from ships and powerplants. What were they thinking using coal exhaust directly in a turbine?
@HailAnts9 ай бұрын
A big problem with all the turbine locomotives, not just the coal ones, was that they were _deafeningly loud!_ So much so that their limited use was also restricted to runs in the sparsely populated southwest..
@RailfanJunction9 ай бұрын
This is insanely well done, great work!!! Love the animations
@jericho869 ай бұрын
Somewhere there's a video of a prototype Oldsmobile? That GM built with a coal turbine as a response to the 70's gas shortages.
@epicrailfannersproductions5519 ай бұрын
I was wondering if you could make a video on UP 6706
@marko78439 ай бұрын
Thank you for this! You would have thought that UP's search for huge power on the cheap would have ended after the gas turbines with the troublesome bunker oil, but noooo... 😂
@skunkjobb9 ай бұрын
Theoretically, I suppose you could make it last if you have some very good particle separation after the combustion chamber. But such take very large space so it wouldn't be feasible for a locomotive, maybe for a stationary engine. The heat loss from a large separator before the turbine would also decrease the efficiency. There has also been some experiments with coal powder in diesel engines but with about the same problems as for the turbine. I wonder how the hell they managed to inject a powder against that high pressure.
@typrus63779 ай бұрын
The algorithm has blessed you it seems, or I'm an anomaly haha Just a tip for polish- mind your transition audio. It trails a little too fast at points, cutting you off. The algorithm brought me here first, then I listened to the SD40E video and it happened there a couple times. Also your audio levels are jumping a bit, especially with the added effects being much higher than your narrative track. I like to listen to content with my earbuds while I work, and the jumps can be jarring. In no way trying to be a jerk- just some notes for a growing channel! Enjoying what I see so far!
@F40M075 ай бұрын
Cool?: yes Successful?: hell no
@SynchroScore9 ай бұрын
What I don't understand is how anybody expected this to actually work. The abrasive and erosive properties of coal ash could not have been a mystery to any railroad. Grinding the coal up into a powder doesn't make the ash go away
@flabiger9 ай бұрын
Especially for turbines. I imagine they would have been better off just generating heat for a steam turbine with the coal.
@SynchroScore9 ай бұрын
@@flabiger There were steam turbo-electric locomotives, and the UP even had some, referenced in this video. They were more productive than this thing, but there was the problem of trying to cram what is essentially a coal-fired power plant into a locomotive body.
@mprooveit35889 ай бұрын
Saving the difficulty, if you can, of building and maintaining a boiler is a pretty big POTENTIAL benefit. Reality stood in the way, however.
@SynchroScore9 ай бұрын
@@mprooveit3588 That's certainly true, going past the steam turbo-electric part and fueling the turbine directly. But that's what the GTELs were meant to do.
@mprooveit35889 ай бұрын
@@SynchroScore I'd be curious to hear the discussions/justifications back in UP's mechanical department in the 50s & 60s that led to the variety of projects they produced.
@gregrowe11689 ай бұрын
UP had some amazing engines at the time. I guess they thought they could make anything work.
@Dilbert-o5k8 ай бұрын
I had assumed that they used a boiler and steam turbine, not pumping ground up coal into a gas turbine! Interesting ,but probably doomed to its failure. The changeover from steam to diesel was a fascinating period in history.
@DukeOfTrains9 ай бұрын
The up steam turbines of 1939 we’re interesting and also didn’t last long
@PittsburghRailroader319 ай бұрын
2:11 if Shawn B was around when those things were still around I bet he would’ve had a stroke 🤣🤣🤣
@richardnelson-ux1zz9 ай бұрын
Great video lot's of information and interesting facts
@haweater15559 ай бұрын
When I first read about this loco years ago, the book's author refered to this assemblage as "a contraption".
@Nathan93Baker9 ай бұрын
Love the animation.👍
@normandiebryant69899 ай бұрын
I'm astonished that this even made it past the "napkin" stage! I mean, the entire internal-combustion concept had to wait until fluid fuels (liquid or gas) were commercialised because it was obvious that chunks of coal would have bent up or jammed all the engine components. Even if they were determined to try it, why build an entire locomotive, rather than just try it out on a test-bed in the back shed first?
@mprooveit35889 ай бұрын
Probably some combination of more knowledge than a layman has and perhaps additional incentive provided by coal producers, it looking good to coal producers, the low price of coal or a combination of those things. It's easy to look back with the knowledge of today and question their wisdom, but they were willing to try things without computer simulations and all other manner of ways to gather information we have today.
@DillianTrainzStudios9 ай бұрын
"A Great Big Rolling Failure on Wheels." -Cowl Unit Productions, 2023
@BuckeyeNationRailroader9 ай бұрын
To say this unit was a failure would be an understatement. This unit in total was a clusterfxck. Their were stories about the Turbine Erosion getting so bad that it literally grinded the blades to powder. All in all the 8080 was a creature from hell, and it ended up right where it belonged
@ronniewinn61499 ай бұрын
They murder to perfectly good w1 electric locomotives and I can't forgive them for that.
@themanformerlyknownascomme7779 ай бұрын
from a Marine or aero engineer's perspective the (at best) limited success of turbines on railroads in general is utterly baffling, like in ships turbines had been the premium option since the 1910s and in the areo industry... well, I think the turbine's success in that field is so obvious and profound that it doesn't really need to be elaborated on. but on the rails (and to a lesser extent the roads) the tech just never seemed to find widespread sucess.
@irongiant61129 ай бұрын
ships and planes can basically just send it at one power setting for a while, trains and trucks need almost constant throttle alteration to cope with changing track/road geometry, so turbines, which are only really efficient in a limited throttle range, don't make sense.
@Robloxity_News9 ай бұрын
Turbine startups don't always go smoothly * Fart sfx *
@ethancampbell60769 ай бұрын
2:24 Loved the farting sound effect better than the original meme 😂😂😂.
@dustin_45019 ай бұрын
While not exactly the same thing got me some Oliver Bullied "The Leader" vibes.
@robertbalazslorincz82189 ай бұрын
Should have tried wood gas instead
@jackgamer63079 ай бұрын
I would *almost* go so far as to pay to run this magnificent beast in a train game
@MPRail4 ай бұрын
2:25 BNSF 4706 when 3815 see something cool:
@MANIKANDAMANICKATH9 ай бұрын
A merged version of a Gas turbine[GTEL] Deiseil-electric engine and Steam Locomotive
@trainfan-ks5hk9 ай бұрын
what simulator did you use during the intro?
@rottenroads19829 ай бұрын
2:25, GETEL Go *FART* Also, if their is anyone who could make the Coal Turbines work, it’s the Top Hat Mercenary Confederation.
@darthgonk56487 ай бұрын
Top 5 favorite looking train
@MANIKANDAMANICKATH9 ай бұрын
This merge people would be hoped would be succesfull albeit but eventually it became stupidity for its problemmatic conditions
@Metra167Productions9 ай бұрын
Great big rollin' failure also trainz
@godlugner53279 ай бұрын
+2 because the saying engines number sounds like a jojo line
@haweater15559 ай бұрын
You didnt mention that to burn coal in the turbine, it had to be pulverized into a fine powder by a diesel engine operated grinder onboard.
@irasthewarrior9 ай бұрын
It would be easier to electrify the energy intensive lines.
@nmccw32459 ай бұрын
Yep. Build a huge efficient coal burning power plant to generate the electricity and electrify the line. Problem is keeping the load consistently at peak efficiency.
@irasthewarrior9 ай бұрын
@@nmccw3245 Then connect the power plant to the national grid.
@amtrakp42424 ай бұрын
What happened to 8080A?
@henrystickmin29483 ай бұрын
But turbine startups don't always go smoothly.
@battle6049 ай бұрын
Bro cooked
@stinkyroadhog13479 ай бұрын
Man is she beautiful though. Wish she could've been preserved as an example of failed tech which is important for future generations to see
@saraihooper759 ай бұрын
First a diesel turbine, Then for some god for saken reason a coal turbine.
@nmccw32459 ай бұрын
Cost. Trying to use a cheaper fuel source.
@thunderbolt56953 ай бұрын
2:23 aint no way bro why did it have to be that fart sound 😂😭
@cliffwoodbury53199 ай бұрын
I know that China had been working on liquid coal technology and I wonder how that would do! I imagine if it is mixed with other chemicals it may burn very efficiently.
@Gamer_Bubs8 ай бұрын
what is the train game you used for this
@Metra167Productions8 ай бұрын
Trainz 19/22
@ernestimken69699 ай бұрын
The background music was too loud.
@JamesWellman-hk2zl9 ай бұрын
Cab unit scrapped too
@admiralfeistier9 ай бұрын
I smelled turbine? I click
@felixwankel39899 ай бұрын
Why didnt the use coal to heat water?!
@russellgxy29059 ай бұрын
Uh...dafuq you mean GE tried coal for an internal combustion unit AFTER this??
@mprooveit35889 ай бұрын
Coal in a diesel engine, not a turbine.Different technology.
@vsetfortysevenproductions9 ай бұрын
Even though you have a new PFP, your old PFP is in the video's thumbnail
@TrainzNS_NYCHeritageUnit2K99 ай бұрын
2:24 LMAO!
@csxguy30029 ай бұрын
4:19 When U gonna make video of this
@Sacto16549 ай бұрын
In short, the coal turbine was just too expensive in terms of maintenance. Especially with the arrival of the dual prime mover DD35 and DD40AX locomotives, which offered high power but at way lower maintenance costs.
@mikethespike75799 ай бұрын
Using the ground up coal to make steam that drives the turbines would have been a better idea. This is proven technology used in many coal fired power stations.
@WilhelmKarsten9 ай бұрын
Except for the fact that coal contains abrasive materials that destroy the exhaust turbine.
@mikethespike75799 ай бұрын
@@WilhelmKarsten There is no exhaust turbine in such a system.
@WilhelmKarsten9 ай бұрын
@@mikethespike7579 GTELs have exhaust turbines. Steam turbines have been tried, they were also failures.
@mikethespike75799 ай бұрын
@@WilhelmKarsten I guess the technology is too heavy for use in railway engines. It's common in power plants. The coal is first ground to a fine dust and then shot with air into a fire chambre where it ignites and turns water into steam. The same identical technology also works with heavy oil and even crude oil.
@WilhelmKarsten9 ай бұрын
@@mikethespike7579 It's because steam turbine technology is too inefficient when scaled down to the size of a locomotive and they don't like throttled up and down with variable loads.
@MANIKANDAMANICKATH9 ай бұрын
GP9-RM 739 And GP35 744
@ALCO-C855-fan8 ай бұрын
Funneh and educating.^^
@ayanstoika-24909 ай бұрын
Lets go
@richardnelson-ux1zz9 ай бұрын
Up should have stayed with steam ins of coal
@DistanceNsVeterans9 ай бұрын
How Tall was it in height?
@trainknut9 ай бұрын
Normies: “the railways retired steam because it was bad for the environment, right?” UP: *builds coal turbine* Normies: “..for the environment… right?” ALCO: “guys check out this 8,000 horsepower fuel pump I made with a locomotive attached”
@mprooveit35889 ай бұрын
What makes anyone think the environment was a big concern in the 1940s-1960s industrial sector? Economics make it possible to even consider.
@nmccw32459 ай бұрын
Steam locos are more labor intensive (and therefore expensive) to operate and maintain. It was all about economics and had nothing whatsoever to do with the environment.
@trainknut9 ай бұрын
@@nmccw3245 Thank you both for explaining the joke, whatever would I do without you?
@nmccw32459 ай бұрын
@@trainknut - ah, you were making an attempt at humor. 🙄
@trainknut9 ай бұрын
@@nmccw3245 Jesus Christ you must be fun at parties... Don't be an asshole man, it don't suit you.
@railfandepotproductions9 ай бұрын
I dont like the shaking effect at 0:11, 2:07 and 2:46 they just be distracting me
@-_HAW_-9 ай бұрын
(Translate) 1:24 essa locomotiva foi muito usada aqui no Brasil e ficou conhecida como russa mesmo sendo um modelo americano,tem história por trás desse apelido Foi usada pela empresa fepasa é RFFSA Não tenho certeza se é a mesma dessa foto mas são parecidas
@surplusgear35459 ай бұрын
I didn't like that locomotive I was so weird for me
@KaleBrightman28609 ай бұрын
👍👍👍
@burntsider84579 ай бұрын
An interesting story spoiled by buffoonery.
@TheaLorraine9 ай бұрын
84 reffrence
@KingfishStevens-di9ji9 ай бұрын
Don't know till you try. How about some respect for these men's effort?
@MANIKANDAMANICKATH9 ай бұрын
dd35b dd35-A
@michaelhband9 ай бұрын
👍👍👍❤❤❤🚂🚂🚂
@billmilligan17059 ай бұрын
Rather click bait. You had the model as an Onion Pacific. It's enough to bring you to tears
@sadams123456789 ай бұрын
No, the model says "Union Pacific" on all three parts. The reason the "U" on the cab unit looks like an "O" is because there's a port hole in the upper part of the "U"