Ken WIlber on the Aloneness of the Spiritual Path

Ken WIlber talks about the lonely journey that is the Spiritual Path at his 2 day talk with Traleg Rinpoche called "Spirituality in the Modern World" in 2006 in New York.

[@squamish4244]

It is an extraordinary sense of aloneness. It isn't a rejection of the world, not at all, but a recognition that everything in the world is impermanent and all of it will pass. This recognition unfolds naturally as one's introspection into reality deepens. In my case, the loneliness flips into terror at being utterly alone - sometimes it can get amazingly nihilistic. But I can't go back.

[@McD-j5r]

The same here.

[@elizabethbaird3604]

I don’t know how many times I have posted this talk on Facebook group threads to help people understand what the process of “awakening” can be like. I even transcribed it in full for inclusion in the introduction to my book “What I told the doctors in the nuthouse”. You see, I have lived this. It wasn’t just “a little zone” entered during meditation. It was regular extended periods of full solipsistic nihilistic suffering which had me repeatedly committed to mental hospitals. The incredibly intense and terrifying experience of being ALONE is unlike anything else you could ever imagine. But, it is based on an incomplete understanding. There has been a partial “seeing” in that it has become clear that there is no separation between things experienced “out there”, including no “others”. However, there is still a “self” (ego) running which is recognising itself as a subject. There is, in fact, no subject/object relationship. There is no duality in Non Duality. There is no “I” or “me” in the experience of Non Dual Awareness. As long as there continues to be a subject, whether it be “a self” or “The Self”, there will be the experience of loneliness. Truly integrating the experience of being “The Self” is to realise that “The Self” is not actually a Self at all. There is just THIS. It is Pure Experiencing with no experiencer (subject) or experienced (object). Wilber uses the dream analogy but refers to “you” as the dreamer/creator of the dream. I think it is misleading to describe it like that. I am no less a dream character than any other in the dream. It is not the case that I am real and the dream characters are not. My body is lying in a bed - not moving around in the dream world. So, if I extend the above statement about the dream analogy to the awakened state… there is no “me” having the experience of otherlessness in this moment. There is no “me” to be ALONE. If the illusory individuated self cannot let go, there is another way to work through the despair of being ALONE. Fully embrace the “God perspective”. I close my eyes and SEE that the Awareness/Consciousness/ Emptiness that I AM, is Eternal. And if I look deeply into the experience with playful curiosity rather than fear, it is revealed that there is only Pure Love and Pure Intelligence there without an ounce of loneliness. It is the ego, which thinks it exists inside a boundaried meat-suit among similar separate beings, that experiences loneliness. Even if it is seen that there is no separate body-bound being, the mind can still carry on with the belief in itself as separate and scream “OMG! I’m the only one here!” You are not “the only one here”, Mind. You are merely a string of formless thoughts arising; part of the orchestra in “The Divine Play”. Not separate, not special, not central. Namaste. 🙏

[@MsSkuzi]

Great comment. A question begs to be asked: what is aware of that all-encompassing awareness? Awareness can't be aware of itself, because there has to be some king of distinction in quality, a distance so to speak. You are aware of awareness, right? What is that you?

[@elizabethbaird3604]

@@MsSkuzi “Awareness is aware of itself” is not the same as “Awareness is aware that it is aware”. “Itself” refers to the contents of Awareness. It cannot be other than the case that Awareness is aware of the contents of Awareness. In other words, Seeing sees the contents of Seeing, but there is no division because the Seeing and the seen are one. It is a seamless experience with no distance or division. “Awareness is aware that it is aware” is simply a noticing by the ego (which is nothing more than a bundle of subtle thoughts supporting the illusion that there is an individuated self embodied within a meat-suit). Awareness is not self-referential. It is the mind that says “I am aware”. Awareness is just Awareness. At least, that is how I would describe what is being observed here. “Others” may experience subjective reality differently. I have no way of knowing.

[@stevesparrow5394]

Liz. Girl. I think you just saved ME a trip to the Nuthouse. God, thank you so much 🙏 ❤️....

[@elizabethbaird3604]

@@stevesparrow5394 You are very welcome! You’ve made my day. Saving just one person from going through the same hell-show I’ve experienced provides meaning to what happened. It took many years to understand where I was going wrong and how to communicate the Truth to fellow seekers who were repeatedly falling down the same rabbit hole. The nuthouse was full of those who had awakened spontaneously without support. Best of luck on your journey. Namaste 🙏❤️😁

[@kristycika5546]

Thank you for your explanation. It was really helpful.

[@ginacrowley8350]

"It’s amazing to me that loneliness get’s so much credit here, because we all know how it is when someone feels what you feel, when someone really cares for how you are doing, and responds to your heart. It’s touching, sweet, and brings fresh breath and nurturance. Togetherness is such a huge value to the heart. I think we would be better of if we devoted our lives to giving it to one another, rather than praise our loneliness and uninvlovement as higher and better than that.

[@stellaa.attakpah653]

Aloneness is not loneliness. U can be with people or family and still feel lonely. But aloneness is feeling alone and whole with yourself in the present moment ...

[@TaraDobbs]

"You don't have a soul. You ARE a soul. You just have a body." CS Lewis. Each of us is 'alone' in a way, but we are not 'alone' in our spiritual path. Each soul we encounter in our life is part of that path in lessons that must be learned. Experiences that make up who we are. All of us in this Universe are on a path of the same journey. It is the individual (I AM) that has a unique outcome to 'that soul' only. Together, collectively, we are all learning the same things, just different outlooks.

[@ginacrowley8350]

Not being involved in a relationship, because it may not work out is a statement of FEAR. A person with so much fear cannot be truly happy. But being in a relationship to get something out of others is selfish too. Happiness doesn’t depend on what we get. There is a motivation that is unselfish and heart-satisfying: to be with people out of love for them, to make THEM happy, even if they are imperfect. It’s not a perfect world, but we are not making it better by leaving it alone, or being alone.

[@ginacrowley8350]

Some people may belittle human responsibilities as “lower,” and “worldly” and say that paying rent, taking care of your family, etc. is less noble than spiritual seeking. But it is a very high and important responsibility to care of others, make sure that they aren’t mistreated by what we do and how we are with them, and to give them what the attention they need from us.

[@n1colux]

alone -> all one

[@justbe7992]

Huin Muin clever

[@dahawk8574]

Enola Gay. Enola is Alone spelled backward. Gay meaning happiness. An esoteric meaning can be extracted... Annihilation of the Self will result in awakening into the profound truth of Divine Oneness and bliss. These bombs were dropped on the 6th, and then the 9th of the August month. 69 is the split into Duality. The yin-yang. Add to that the first test back in the US and you have the Trinity. Literally called 'Trinity'. Then you can extend this into sexuality. Adam was created as a whole being, without gender. To cope with his aloneness, his body was split into polarities, with Adam becoming male, and Eve being female. This is the splitting of the Adam. And Ev is the symbol that physicists use for Electron Volts when an Atom is split. Adam/Atom & Eve/Ev. From base human impulses, a man can ask if he was alone, or if there were no women, could he attain happiness? The challenge here can be referred to as alonE Gay. Then, given sexual polarity, there is the '69', and the sexual connotations there are straightforward. As for the Trinity, I'm not sure if that can be extended into the bedroom. A threeway with God, perhaps. There is LOTS of stuff that has been Hidden In Plain Sight.

[@neoanderson367]

Walmart- Wal mart- law mart - Martial Law

[@FaYT02]

@ Nicol L. Very nice !

[@Shockwaveo]

yep

[@HandballNinja]

"It depends on us, and how we go about them." This line exemplifies my points and what Ken WIlber is saying. At the core, it's all about us as individuals and our choices (i.e. being Alone). Like you said, "Happiness doesn’t depend on what we get." and that's the realization that spiritual teachings push at. People assume that they need something external to be happy, when life isn't about the external, it's about the internal choices you make in how you go about & perceive life.

[@beatrizweck5400]

Ebiye Jeremy Udo-Udoma I agrre with you its about internal 99% and 1% External.

[@BobE_Nagesh]

I know the experience of oneness. I know the living realization of being nobody and nothing along with the overflowing bliss of that realization. In the past year, i have had the experienced realization that I am utterly alone in the universe...and the experience was not at all blissful. It probably has something to do with the fact that my life has shifted away from what I have been involved with and having as a focus in my life. That has dropped away. I don't really have a purpose like I used to have. I think being stripped of these purposes and identies has contributed to this experience of total aloneness in the universe.

[@04dram04]

This is why you should love yourself. So you will always be in the presence of someone you love

[@whyired]

I recently discovered Ken and wish I would have found him sooner. Hes helped give me a better perspective on my own experinces over the last 20 years. The aloness he describes here is something that I have experinced a few times in my life. It's hard to describe because it is NOT a conceptual experince, it is very literal. It left me confused, sad and in awe. Many times I would seek to experince it again yet at the same time be fearful and dreading even thinking of experincing it again...

[@squamish4244]

That's beautiful. There has been a lot of terror about never rising above this state of profound despair and isolation, and the effect on family, friends and employment has also been very heavy.

[@mindfulmoments4956]

Each one of us experiences the moment-to-moment flow of thoughts, feelings, etc. (i.e., the five aggregates). Within this flow, the concept of a self also happens as another arising and ceasing thought moment. Even thoughts such as “I feel so much alone” or “I have realized now” are arising and ceasing (impermanent) thought moments, that cannot be pinned down as a “me.”

[@j.burgundy499]

I think he is right. When you work on yourself you feel an aloness because you can’t rely on other people, even if you know they are on the same path as you. But the spiritual path also involves giving up oneself for love/emptiness. ‘If you love you won’t feel lonely’ as it says in a song. But the question is what are we doing this for? Who exactly are we fighting for. And the answer to these questions might abolish both aloness and togetherness and you’ll find something deeper, I suppose. 🧐

[@inspireAS]

Wow! What a powerful pointer. This man is a true discovery.

[@neoanderson367]

Ken is right here. It is incredibly alone being literally the only thing that is. Hence the creation of the multiverse: to play with oneself

[@jjaammee11]

If that is the truth then why would God ever desire to wake up into the nightmare of the eternal void of alone nothingness? What he is talking about is a classic case of the madness of Solipsism.

[@LoisSings]

@@jjaammee11 Thank you… I get the alike feeling with terror also though. You’ve stated he is incorrect but you haven’t stated the most important part: What is the solution?

[@MrUnlimitedPotential]

Everything is One. One Path. One Destiny. One Present Moment. One Past. One Future. One Mega Consciousness. One Mega Mind (disguised as many little minds). Oneness is Yin and Yang; and Yin and Yang is Oneness. There can only be one. Everything is One but disguised as many separate things. There is no separation; it's illusory.

[@brandyroxyou]

This is the first time I have seen this video but I am so thankful to have found it. love to you

[@McCruller]

Exactly. Concepts are of the finite mind. The "finite" cannot comprehend the "infinite"' yet the Infinite can be "apprehended" : direct intuitive perception of True Nature (Zen)

[@squamish4244]

In some cases, it is not just desperate loneliness but terror that can arise, because you feel threatened with total abandonment and isolation. For myself this has been the case, and I have to be careful about triggers, e.g. the mass media, Holocaust movies, scenes of torture, anything where humans are pushed to their breaking point or increase that feeling of utter desolation. It also helps to ground myself in social situations, at work, or with exercise to help reign in my nervous system.

[@HandballNinja]

When you understand detachment, you understand that those "lower, worldly, human responsibilities" need not be necessities. Who says one has to live in a house? Who says one has to marry and have kids? This is what spiritual teachings are about, cutting through man-made conventions of what we are obligated to do to liberate people. When you stop attaching for the sake of attaching and you are not dependent on others for your happiness, you're free to live and love unconditionally.

[@nanobooo]

I specifically remember discussing this with my mother when I was about 6. I asked her "how do I know that I am not the only one alive"? If all I know, and all I feel is me, how can I be sure any of you even exist? Maybe all this is just a creation around me. I still don't trust people much. They do horrible things like serpents.

[@wendy-leemorrissirrom8636]

bliss is found in meditation. if u have meditated and have a balanced mind. then you will become superconcious fulfillment .never feel alone when connected to universal consciousness .

[@kud0kun]

it's really important to distinguish what he's talking about from a highly narcissistic solipsism, which he has, quite rightly in my opinion, frequently criticized in his work.

[@IAn0nI]

Can you explain some pointers regarding this in his work?

[@mindrunfree]

Since there is no Self to see, we are not only alone, we are nobody.

[@steveboutcher80]

Or nothing... No Thing :)

[@colinshaw3776]

The intellect can never be used to understand higher realms of spiritual reality, forget self, its already done, see it sense it, nothing to be done!

[@CrazyLinguiniLegs]

I have been seeking and studying for a couple of decades now. Jesus, Buddha, Zen, Sufism, Alan Watts, Edgar Cayce, J. Krishnamurti, U. G. Krishnamurti, Osho (Rajneesh), Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, Ramana Maharshi, Meher Baba, Upasni Maharaj, Philokalia, Stoicism, Nietzsche, Jung, etc., etc., not in that order. And more and more I feel like we are just playing games with ourselves, deluding ourselves. For some reason our lives lack depth, real meaning; and we try to give it depth or meaning with these "spiritual" games. But it's self-delusion. The best I can distill from all of this is perhaps a simple ethics: be a good person. That means don't cause anybody trouble unnecessarily, don't be a burden on anyone, and help others out whenever and however you can. We're all in this together; try to ease someone else's burden. Be satisfied with necessities, as any accumulation of unnecessary wealth and power corrupts a person virtually 100% of the time. Don't get wrapped up in drama; instead of adding fuel to fires of division, try to foster reconciliation. And get off the immortality trip; if you are immortal, you don't have to do anything about it; if you are not immortal, you can't do anything about it. Peace.

[@maxwellcooper2]

I know what you mean -- that is exactly what struck me when I first started watching this video, having heard of Ken Wilber before but having never really read his work in any depth or seen a vid of him. However, he is saying something valuable, by the end of the video. It helps if your eyes are closed so his personal ego etc. is more hidden. But I sort of agree with you. What he says reminds me a lot of Alan Watts; but Alan says it in a more academic and satisfying way, and manages to better

[@HandballNinja]

Why engage in what stresses you? Why all these external needs? Notice how he says the journey is from "alone to Alone" and you're questions are all about what's in-between. He's a master in the sense that he has no stresses, he lives a life of joy & peace. Engage in worldly games, such as monogamous relationships, at your own risk.

[@squamish4244]

Thank you and blessings.

[@maxwellcooper2]

God bless and much love

[@thelargervisionoflife8411]

Big Mind is another name for Awareness,which can be confusing if we have 20 different names for the same thing.Big Mind/Awareness is def not attainable but more something we notice and "rest in" with our attention.. until we notice that the contraction and tendencies of attention are just a seemingly needless effort when practicing meditation.it has its place but eventually must be let go of finally to feel and "experience" our true self as Awareness which is the essence of the entire universe;)

[@04dram04]

Ive experienced this realization after having a lucid dream. Gave me much anxiety

[@ishamylene]

first-time,i hear about Wilber,i'll tell you after his speech.

[@deanmilne6744]

There could be only one consciousness but its not lonely. If that's true, we are all that consciousness. One consciousness manifests as sperate but the same experiences in all of us.

[@ginacrowley8350]

When I talk about relationships I don’t mean only coupled relationships. I mean all relationships. And it’s true, all of them can be harmful, and they can include egotistical patterns or addiction, and in this sense be unhealthy like cigarettes. But they can also be ego transcending, fruitful, nurturing and beautiful. It depends on us, and how we go about them.

[@Walley666]

I am is an idea, an abstraction. When that idea goes there is no 'self' there - just life.

[@JoAnnMcCarter]

I thought he was gonna say we all share one mind just like we all breathe the same air, oh well

[@elizabethbaird3604]

Not sure why you would think he would say that that since “we” “all” and “share” are all dualistic terms and this video is about Non-Dual Awareness.

[@jonlybeck12]

This is a wonderful video with a beautifully illustrated concept. He could have gone much farther with it.

[@HandballNinja]

Just because someone is detached it doesn't make them apathetic. People say that being "detached" is selfish, but if Ken Wilbur didn't give a damn about others, why would he be willing to share his insights with the masses? Expressing one's energy on the big picture, as opposed to ordinal/1-on-1 relationships, doesn't make one a bad person. I agree that chatting with friends/helping the elderly is spiritual as well, but some people force toxic relationships for the sake of having relationships.

[@woffordwolf2071]

The fact that we do not know the answer where this is all coming from already means that there is more to the real Self than this "aloneness" if we really knew the self then the how of the manifestation came about would be known too. So the so called "enlightened" have not reached the end of the road because they still do not know how or why.

[@elizabethbaird3604]

You seem to assume that nobody really knows “the self”. How do you know that the so called “enlightened” do not know the how or why of manifestation?

[@woffordwolf2071]

@@elizabethbaird3604 just because you know how to manifest doesn't mean you know the mechanics behind it how and why it happens, we all manufacturer our illusion here, consciously or unconsciously.

[@woffordwolf2071]

​@@elizabethbaird3604 I think I was referring to the experience of oneness which I think is not that unusual, the consciousness being singular does not answer why we go into this dream reality in the first place, which means we still don't really know all there is.

[@elizabethbaird3604]

@@woffordwolf2071 Another whole bunch of assumptions, based on your own lack of knowledge, about someone you don’t know.

[@elizabethbaird3604]

@@woffordwolf2071 If one knows, through their own direct experience, that All is God then the rest is pretty obvious.

[@fnatist]

Who is it that Ken mentions at 3:11 ? "Platonious" or what is he saying? thank you..

[@6Uncles]

Plotinus

[@real_Gi]

In the Fog Strange to walk in the fog! Every bush and stone is lonely, no tree can see the other, each one is alone. The world was full of friends when my life was still light; now that the fog is falling, no one is visible anymore. Truly, no one is wise who does not know the darkness that quietly and inescapably separates him from everything. Strange to walk in the fog! Life is loneliness. No person knows the other, each one is alone. - Hermann Hesse (1905)

[@ferdinandalexander8053]

The absence of two does not automatically result in "one'. Infinity is non-numberical. Whatever is said one is left living in service to a concept. Actuality or the way it IS would have to be non-conceptual and thus everything is not necessarily one, nor two, nor infinity, etc, etc, etc.

[@squamish4244]

The feeling is staggering and sometimes devastating, but in my case I really clogged up the process with an anti-anxiety drug addiction. So stay away from those drugs except in emergencies.

[@ShunyamNiketana]

Well said, Gina.

[@McCruller]

RE: WHAT FINITE MIND? The "finite mind" with which "you" posed these two questions, and commented. "Infinity," by definition, allows for all, or none, and everything in-between, or beyond.... "Infinity" is a word that points to the mysterious "incomprehensible" consciousness/spirit/noumena/etc. from which the phenomenal universe emerges. If there is not finite mind, how are we able to carry-on this conversation ?

[@squamish4244]

Schroedinger was a profound philosopher as well as a brilliant physicist.

[@geot4647]

Uploader, why the capital I and small L?

[@psstheyyou]

That guy in the black shirt is one of the greatest ventriloquists I have ever seen. You can't see his lips move. Except for the really hard parts when he hides his mouth behind the dummy's head! And what a great looking dummy that dummy is! It's so lifelike. I thought it would get up and walk away. Come to think of it --- which guy is the dummy and which one is the ventriloquist?

[@fukutube4evr]

"The aloneness of the spiritual path" from a guy surrounded by groups of people, personal assistants, gurus, and a number of other peeps.

[@darkdaynightime]

Hey, only if you say so... In my spiritual path universal love includes personal love. There is no condemning of ANYTHING. What spiritual practice are you referring to may i ask?

[@squamish4244]

Well, I don't have any of those, and I know *exactly* what he's talking about. And even in a crowd of people, it is still there.

[@HandballNinja]

If I said, "I don't smoke cigarettes, because my health may be compromised" would that statement be out of FEAR as well? In other words, is it desirable to engage in every worldly pleasure simply because it's worldly? Shouldn't we exercise discretion as it pertains to pleasure & happiness? On a side note: It's a bit paradoxical to say "happiness doesn't depend on what we get" after you make the conditional that one whom is "not (being) involved in a relationship...cannot be truly happy"

[@BohemianKitsch]

i've looked all over trying to find a copy of this DVD for sale. they used to even be on Amazon; now they are NOWHERE. do you know where i might find this DVD now? :)

[@Symbolsysteme]

I like your logo...*)) Thanks for uploading.

[@jo-ma450]

@finarrykahn13 Both, solipsism and wilbers view say: "There is no other than me!" But the meaning is different! The often critisized solipsism means that only what you as a person/ego think or feel is real, because you have no proof that the other is really "an other" rather than an object in your awareness. Wilber means that the other AND you as a person/ego are objects in the awareness of your TRUE SELF that IS indeed one and the same as the TRUE SELF of every "other".

[@annaannamarie3572]

Every word is a concept even "eternal name"

[@harmonyvegan]

Thanks for sharing, is it possible to view the whole talk anywhere?

[@michaelh102]

If there is one commonality which we all share it's consciousness - albeit at various levels or stages of perception. In this sense we are far from alone and I am no different to a newly born baby on the other side of the planet. Isn't consciousness without self-limiting ego attachments (like I am 'this' or you are 'that') divisible by nothing?...at which stage is of its purest, uncluttered embodiment?

[@squamish4244]

After six years of this (for me)...when does it end?

[@moesypittounikos]

Who is the sock puppet in the background?

[@plumbichi]

Hey there fellow Wilberians, can I get a what what for this genious.

[@JoshwithaJ]

Is the guy behind Wilber his son? They have similar features.

[@incumikeC]

its just you and there was never anyone else to begin with now was there.....

[@Magik1369]

I love Ken but here he falls into the error of solipsism. The Ground of Being is Individuating as evolving souls, what Sri Aurobindo called the "Psychic Being". Then there is the higher Atman, which is part of the Universal One. The One and the Many are co-emergent.non duality.

[@zsalvati]

if i am alone then how much responsability do i have?

[@greatmomentsofopera7170]

What he is describing is sometimes called zen sickness, but it can be defused because after the realisation of the I am, comes its dissolution as you realise that you are not just the subject, the witness, but also the object that is perceived. It's the final resting place of the ego you might say, to identify only with the solipsistic I am.

[@TobiasLars]

Jnana - mind - under standing the Heart.....

[@ShunyamNiketana]

I don't think Gina said that. In fact, she stipulates that "relationship" means all kinds of bonding and connection, not just exclusive love-pair-bond. She seems to be making the valid point that our connections to others are no less "spiritual" than our independence, detachment, or being alone. The new-age spiritual paths seem to teach separation and detachment, and we need to remember that we are no less "spiritual" when we are chatting with friends in the local cafe or helping the elderly.

[@hansludwig4732]

Illusions encircles all, waves and atoms building the dream

[@03Blackbeard]

Ken knows. He is a cool dude.

[@finarrykahn13]

Can someone distinguish this from solipsism?

[@india1852]

Yes but that aloneness is not the kind of aloneness that one thinks of in a normal emotional state. It is not suffering, it is peace and sense of completeness.

[@Raul61233]

What is not actually stated is that the human level consciousness "aloneness" cannot be compared with the Infinite one, and clearly, nor can the finite mind grasp infinity.

[@kaibe5241]

Actually, it can. There's whole mathematics surrounding infinity and what is possible with it ;)

[@McCruller]

What is it that says : "There is no conversation happening" ? Answer : Infinity expressed as the relative mind/ego/intellect. Ashvagosha (100 CE ?) delineated quite clearly the distinctions of 'relative reality' and 'Absolute Reality". Is it not the mind - characterized by thoughts, concepts, and emotions - that feeds on words and uses them to point to "Infinity" ? If this conversation is not happening, what prompts "Ferdinand" to write ? Isn't Ferdinand Infinity finitely expressed ?

[@MrCuntyballs2U]

Lonely at the top eh Ken? ....... Look where big mind gets you?.......a big heart on the other hand gets you all the friends in the world

[@Kafei]

@BoStevoD The supreme being, in order to enjoy all the possibilities of experience, all the possible permutations of potentiality; has created maya, the illusion of separateness, the illusion that you are a bodily being, a being with form in time and in space. There truly is no separate "I." There's only substratum of pure awareness that manifests the forms that appear in the flux of the phenomenal plane. So, the only solipsist is Brahman.

[@sultrysophist]

There's one major thing here that I disagree with, which also answers the question of aloneness: There is no sense of my "willing" or "causing" the things I experience. That is to say, even though it's true that I am the only "experiencer" in the entire Universe, there's no reason for me to believe that I am the cause of what I experience. To me, the Cause is what I call "God". God causes both the experiencer and the experience, and I am what DOES the experiencing--in that belief I am not alone.

[@elizabethbaird3604]

God is the experiencer, what is experienced, and the act of experiencing. YOU have no part to play, except as a diversion.

[@sultrysophist]

@@elizabethbaird3604 That's a silly statement to make; and yes, I know exactly what you mean by it. Just because you can enter a state where you become "aware" that your "self" (and other "selves") is (or are) an illusion (or illusions) doesn't mean that it (or they) really is (or are). To believe that would be like cutting off the branch you're sitting on, regardless of what you're experiencing. It's you who initiates the meditation, you who is in a state of being and becoming aware. Other "selves" remain unaware and don't bother attempting to meditate, but you are different. A subjective mental state doesn't alter this fact, no matter the feelings it brings with it. All meditation is ultimately about objectifying all experience, but the experience is always being had by someone (your "self", in your own case). In other words, you can't free yourself from your own subjectivity. You can only enter a state where you feel free from it.

[@elizabethbaird3604]

@@sultrysophist The direct experience here, which you cannot deny because it is entirely subjective, is nothing like your description. But, having said that, I cannot make any assumptions about your direct experience, so I apologise if I did that.

[@sultrysophist]

@@elizabethbaird3604 Let me say this, because I know you'll understand it: I remember once telling my friend Mike, "It seems like everything is 'in here'", to which he responded, "Everything IS 'in here'". I learned about spiritulity and meditation from Mike many years prior, and this was after I had spent about 3 months meditating in my room after giving or throwing away all of my possesions, and only leaving the room to use the restroom and eat. What I'm attempting to do is help you look at things in a way which will keep you from ever entering that state of terror again. I know terror better than anything else.

[@meghan42]

@colourfulwithaU Being alone is a realization; an insight of sorts .... and also a great joy. I don't believe the people who listen to him speak are mindless drones.

[@Brianawaken]

@isellsoap1 Actually, that came from Bill Hicks. They used it on there album.

[@jdord4838]

Yeshua / Jesus is the way

[@yodythewoadie]

The fuck is that supposed to mean? No time to speak in tongues in this era bud.

[@zeropoleski4360]

Yes...the fear that the realization of the great 'solipsism' brings with it.

[@egodust11]

+ zero poleski - i had this fearful insight when i was about 14yo and saw it in terms that everyone was IT and had no meaningful connection to others. every time i revisited the thought, it scared the hell out of me. :) i later realized there ARE no others, but only *apparently separate* entities who are the One or the Singularity I AM. that all of this was a Play the One I AM *somehow* desired and therefore manifested into being, *feigning* plurality. (note: i see this Play as the dance of Maya, ie not as utter illusion, which in sanskrit is called mithya, but as Maya: being real yet not-real; indescribable and ultimately an unresolveable Mystery..)

[@Upstreamprovider]

Why did the realization that there are no others scare you? I mean, you must realize YOU no more exist than they do, eh? There are two modes of experiencing this phenomenon, in my opinion, One-ness with aloneness (which is seemingly not very pleasant) and One-ness with communality, or communion (which is very satisfying indeed). I know which I prefer because I have experienced both states. The latter (IMHO) is in keeping with the Bodhisattva Path which, in my limited understanding, starts with the vow to not achieve liberation before helping all sentient beings to do so and "ends" with realizing there ARE no sentient beings to liberate. Note: not there are no OTHER sentient beings to liberate, but there are NO sentient beings to liberate. But that is the culmination of the Path, a nano-second - if you will - before the Jnana of total fusion. I only had it once, years ago. Once is enough.

[@egodust11]

The great fallacy, as I've come to see it, is the idea that the ego or individuality can be destroyed utterly. The idea of its being exclusive and "holistically" separate is how everything runs amok, but the individual as an integral player in the vast scheme of things I believe should be preserved. This is the reason for the whole business of the Absolute coming into manifestation. The sacred IAm in Its source singularity devised this Lila as a product of its latent desire to experience Itself.

[@elizabethbaird3604]

@@egodust11 It is absolutely the case that the ego can die once and for all. You are making an assumption based on what you cannot do.

[@HandballNinja]

You're mixing up Alone and loneliness. Loneliness is feeling incomplete. Alone is having a clear perspective of the world, free from baggage (independent). Someone who's Alone has the clarity of mind to attach selectively (i.e. Wilbur reaching millions via work) and protect themselves from negative attachments (ex: those who stay with their abusers, the attachment they have to "family" is compromising their lives) The goal with detachment isn't apathy, but the freedom to attach selectively.

[@McCruller]

Look-up "RNase Enzyme Deficiency Disease". Ken has been suffering with this for the past few years.

[@FieryLittleRaven]

@Tigran4 why? Just curious

[@ferdinandalexander8053]

What finite mind? Where? Infinity leaves no room for "otherness" and yet is not necessarily "oneness".

[@TheWayofFairness]

There is a capability to be aware of even when there are no words or thoughts. Is there really anything there or here? No not really. The experiencer vanishes and so does the experience. Nothing...

[@xPhantomPoopx]

Terence McKenna Helps me 10 fold.

[@jo-ma450]

Wenn ich mir die Kommentare zu Wilbers Videos durchlese, fällt mir immer wieder auf, dass die meisten einfach nicht verstehen, worum es ihm eigentlich geht! Das liegt zwar in der Natur des Themas, ist aber immer wieder irritierend. Wenn ihr euch für eine Spiritualität, wie er sie vertritt, interessiert, checkt meinen Channel!!

[@AirSandFire]

Is "All truths are but half truths", too, a half truth?

[@mael-strom9707]

Please explain this aloneness, because everywhere I go this foul bag of bones and blood and sinew and organs and pus follows me around. 😣😏🙄😫

[@elizabethbaird3604]

Look down at the body shape in the bottom section of the view. In this present moment, without reference to thoughts about what you think you have seen or heard outside this moment, where is the evidence that there are bones, blood, sinew, organs or pus? The question and answer specifically relates to “this aloneness”.

[@rideforever]

The point is not to feel the I AM. But to be the I AM. That is something quite different. When you hear Ken Wilber making this basic error, you realise at what level humans operate.

[@rideforever]

If I can say it, he can say it. But he didn't.

[@rideforever]

***** Yeah Wilber is caught in some old Eastern ideas "you are it" etc.... What it really represents is that he is deeply conditioned and (a) unable to create a new understanding of the work of the path, and try to move from touching the IAm to being it, (b) unable to investigate his current state without referring to some old maps. Loneliness is in part caused by the poverty of human spirituality. Wilber loves talking for instance, but he resists development even of a simple kind. Like Gurdjieff says, humans are like donkeys who get excited at the sound they make when they eat. Or like UG Krisnamurti says man's talk is like a dog barking, nothing more.

[@alliant]

rideforever you're typing nonsense. you made nothing but vague ad hominems, personal attacks disguised as some kind of wisdom. but explaining yourself would probably be anti-spiritual, right? pedantic barking?

[@rideforever]

alliant It is explained. Wilber treats 'I Am' as an object, as many do, and he does not recognize the need to embody it. If there is something you don't understand, please be specific and I will try to answer it. Also, you might consider whether your post is an attack in itself and whether this is a good way to communicate with someone you have never met.

[@alliant]

Wilber treats "I am" as an object insofar as *any* speaking objectifies it. Hence why you just referred to it yourself as an "it". If I were guided by an intention to misunderstand you, I would criticize you for the exact same thing...but I realize that it is injunctively useful to speak of "I-Am-ness" as if it were an object of awareness (a step on the path to nonduality, where you "embody it"). But Wilber has explicitly said this point many times, exactly what you claim he doesn't recognize. He has never claimed that a rational idea of "I am-ness" is equivalent to the transrational direct vision of nonduality (even this way I put it is metaphorical, as are all statements about the ultimate). This is why I attack you, you don't play fair.

[@jo-ma450]

@mayallbeingsbefree In other words: Solipsism says: Only my EGO is real. Wilber says: Only the TRUE SELF (I amness) of US ALL is real! Does that help??

[@LovePH926]

@dfwjac - For some people it's "I isness"

[@brothajack1993]

"Kaleesi, it would be an honour to host you at the House of the Undying!"

[@fastingislife3766]

brothajack1993 😂🤣😂🤣👌👌

[@irontoad123]

its makes his lips blue and his mind soft

[@jameshorton6474]

I think the idea that "I'm alone" has to be learned, not taught.

[@finarrykahn13]

@mayallbeingsbefree yes. thank you.

[@MADDMOODY516]

so no after life?

[@crotanger]

I don't get it.. if everyone is one.. interaction with others is the same as interaction with yourself.. so when i pet my dog i'm petting my self.. in another reality kind of.. out side of the linear thread of time that my mind runs along.. but time is made of many spools of time and every thread represents a mind.. sort of.. i think..

[@elizabethbaird3604]

The first few lines of your comment are true. You lost me when you started discussing time. 🤔