Why Plate Tectonics Is SO IMPORTANT for Venus

Plate tectonics might be the key to why Venus had become the hell it is right now. Some think that it just never had it. But recent studies suggest that Venus did have plate tectonics at the same time Earth did. Why is it important? Figuring it out with Dr Matt Weller.
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00:00 Intro
01:23 How bad Venus really is
04:44 Plate tectonics
17:05 Will Earth follow Venus' fate
18:40 When was Venus habitable
20:54 How can we learn more
28:00 Finding similar things in exoplanets
32:35 Current obsessions
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[@IgnatShining]

Another significant difference between the two planets: could tidal effects of Earth's moon be a factor in plate tectonics as well?

[@davidmcsween]

I wondered this too. Also we had a big impact too create the moon. Although Venus has a slow spin perhaps our quicker days are due to the moon adding angular momentum giving us more even illumination throughout the year

[@Bitchslapper316]

The tidal forces exerted on Europa by jupiter and Io creates tectonics. Io may have a similar but very different process. Pluto also has tectonics and has a comparatively large moon. These processes are all different from earth because those planets/moons are not nearly as dense as earth and have a very different internal structure.

[@mikaljan]

exactly what I was thinking

[@CandideSchmyles]

Exactly. People like this guy that tinker away with models provide us with speculation that is next to useless. The moon is the primary driver of plate tectonics and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[@xitheris1758]

My thought is that the tidal stresses imparted on the Earth by the Moon (when the Moon was much closer to the Earth) may have played a role in keeping the Earth's crust cracked, providing areas of weakness for currents in the mantle to exploit.

[@swiftycortex]

My favorite moments in every interview is when Fraser Cain asks his guest a ? and you hear ,"hmm" with interested piqued 😁. Thank you for quality scientific content.

[@frasercain]

Happy to do it.

[@erinmac4750]

Agreed. Fraser asks the questions that I needed and wanted to better understand this topic. Now, I'm much more interested in Venus and see the importance of its study in our understanding of our planet and our exploration of our universe. 💜🌍🌌✌️😎

[@direvosabostien3565]

I am glad YT recently recommended this channel, FC is an excellent communicator. I feel I don't waste my time watching useless 5s intros or VPN ads. These interviews are great, profound and FC's questions are engaging. Sometimes the audio on the interviewee side is not the best but understandable to be out of FC's control. Also, glad FC is providing a platform for upcoming scientists to present their research.

[@parkpatt]

Wow. Just found your channel, and I'm blown away. These are such great interviews! Keep it up!

[@frasercain]

Oh thanks, there are hundreds more to catch up on. 😀

[@dannybell926]

So much good information to soak up here

[@metaqllica1]

I just found Fraser’s channel about a year ago

[@harry.tallbelt6707]

Very interesting interview, thank you both for making it! Life being a "grease" for tectonic plates is quite an image :D

[@frasercain]

It's nice to know we have a part to play. 😀

[@Rattus-Norvegicus]

Can you please put the name of the guest in the title? It distinguishes the interviews from the solo deep dives.

[@unvergebeneid]

Super interesting thought that life itself would prevent an early runaway greenhouse effect. This would imply that abiogenesis happened so very early on earth not because it's so easy or statistically likely but because it's the only time window where it _can_ happen! Which would be a huge argument for a rare earth.

[@deanbean2106]

By far the best interview I've ever heard about Venus

[@unvergebeneid]

The interviews on this channel are criminally underwatched!

[@RubbittTheBruise]

"What would it take to know more?" Frazer really does ask excellent questions.

[@michaelblacktree]

This was a really interesting convo! Big props to Dr Weller.

[@BlueNeonBeasty]

Oh Venus is one of the planets I find most interesting. This was fascinating!

[@brick6347]

How possible is it to land a rover on Venus if you go high enough? Maxwell Montes is the tallest mountain on Venus, about 11km high. This is the garden spot of Venus, only 380 °C and 45 bar, which is about the same as 450-500m under water. We have submersibles that operate at well beyond those pressures, but not those temperatures. But 380C doesn't seem beyond the realm of possibility, my pizza oven doesn't melt.

[@frasercain]

Did you ever see this interview about high-temperature electronics? kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4fXoqh8nL9lprM

[@cykkm]

Engineer's answer: true, we operate submersibles at 500m, but no, we don't do it at 380°C Physicists answer: your pizza oven doesn't melt because it gives off extra heat to the environment. There is nowhere to give extra heat on Venus. And supercritical CO₂ is: (a) a very good heat conductor, you can't actively cool (e.g., refrigerate) surface of the vehicle and create a bubble of thermal gradient; active cooling is futile; (b) has zero surface tension, like a gas: it will fill every tiny slot, crack or hole, so even very dense cooling radiator won't help creating such a thermal gradient, (c) is as dense as a liquid; typical 0.5m/s Venerian surface “wind” drags cobbles while 1m/s gusts throw boulders, so you're guaranteed an inflow of fresh dense hot fluid. Ah, we almost ignored the chemist, sorry old fella: supercritical CO₂ is also (d) an excellent polar solvent with a good affinity to organics, so make sure there is nothing but metal or pure carbon in any tiny connection, however narrow. Like, the empty helical space between a bolt and a nut is not necessarily fully airtight even if tightened well, so water doesn't enter your submersible. Water has surface tension, this is why you can drop drops with a dropper. Supercritical fluids don't, they slip down out of any dropper, however tiny, like if they were gas, though heavy as a liquid. All in all, if not (a), (b), (c) and (d) all together, that 11km peak would be... uhm, maybe I wouldn't call it exactly a “garden,” but at least survivable for a specially constructed landing craft for an extra couple hours, or, if lucky, a whole (Earth's) day... Here's Nile of Nile Blue and Nile Red experimenting with supercritical CO₂: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKTPqYOgp7Ktp7s . The only correction is that foggy appearance is not a mix of gas and droplets, it's a transient unstable “phase” on its own. The phenomenon is observed during the critical transition and called “critical opalescence.” His explanation why silicone beads became “pearly” under different light angles, like oil film, is correct. The supercritical CO₂ got into tiniest cracks, and, when explosively expanding, widened them to 100s of nm, comparable to visible wavelengths. This shows how penetrating the stuff is. Also, a rover at a mountain peak...

[@erinmac4750]

​@@cykkmAre there materials impermeable to supercritical CO2, where you could create something like a membrane that could enclose the electronics? Or, something that's similar in form that the instruments could float in inside some sort of case or membrane? Or, am I asking a fantasy question. You're answer to the OP's question was fascinating and informative. ✌️😎💜🌌

[@frankpape7274]

"so make sure there is nothing but metal or pure carbon in any tiny connection"@@cykkm oh and the exterior needs to be able to cope with the sulfuric acid droplets in the atmosphere too... like.. maybe use some noble metal?.. gold plated bling bling..or diamonds.. dont really see other organic carbon containing molecules withstanding sulfuric acid at those temps(neither do most metals)... About the sCO2 though, i dont really see how sCO2 is a polar solvent?.. given its symetrical structure. After reacting with water it becomes carbonic acid which is polar.. but venus doesnt have water.. maybe you can explain?

[@cykkm]

@@frankpape7274Venus is extremely dry. SO₃ needs H₂O to become H₂SO₄ (these “acid minus water” compounds are called anhydrides, literally “without water“). With any little water present, SO₃ gobbles it very eagerly. But Venus has practically no water. The figure I see is 20 ppm (parts per million; per-cents, parts per hundred, are too large, it gets to 0.002%); I don't know if it's average content, or concentration near the surface. There is H₂SO₄ in atmosphere, too: water is bound in it very tightly. But it doesn't react with iron and its alloys when highly concentrated. Diluted H₂SO₄, however, reacts with Fe or its alloys readily. But concentrated H₂SO₄ is stored in steel drums and transported on rail in regular steel tank cars; as long as they're sealed, it's pretty inert. I don't remember the mechanism. Many concentrated strong acids “passivate” metals-build a thin layer of some compound on metal surface upon first contact, so there's no more interface between acid and metal. Very reactive acid, HF‧H₂O, eats through glass, but not steel containers, which it passivates. I'm not sure if that's the case for H₂SO₄ tho; maybe, simply, free water is required for it to react with iron. Sulfuric acid is very “greedy” for water; it builds quite complex and stable structures of an acid molecule surrounded by a dozen or two (I forgot, sorry) H₂O molecules around it in a solution. This structure is called “coordinate complex,” if you want to research further. Also, H₂SO₄ in any concentration destroys many plant-based organic materials by “sucking water out” of them. This stuff is treacherous: cotton textiles are mainly carbohydrate polymers, and carbohydrates all have the same empirical formula: (CH₂O) repeated many times: 11 in regular sugar (plus 1 extra C atom, IIRC), but counting thousands in structural carbohydrate polymers in plants, including cotton and wood. And sulfuric acid “wants to dilute itself,” it's so “hungry” for water that it tears H₂O from CH₂O, leaving only C, pure carbon, from cleaved carbohydrates. In practise, you unwittingly let a tiny drop of fairly diluted acid, like 10%, on your cotton trousers, and discover a 10cm as-if burnt hole only the next morning. I know it... uhm, just because I know it... they weren't even two weeks old. :-( It also turns sugar into black stuff due to a lot of leftover carbon-charcoal, essentially-too, in a lab demo.

[@OtterSwims]

What an incredible interview! I cant believe how much I've learned from this

[@MCsCreations]

Fantastic interview, Fraser! Thanks a bunch! 😃 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@petevenuti7355]

How do you have a comment a day old on a 3hr old video?

[@MCsCreations]

@@petevenuti7355 My comment is just 1h old! 😳

[@frasercain]

Thanks, you too!

[@unvergebeneid]

​@@petevenuti7355shows as 9h old for me and yours as 7h.

[@Madash023]

Super interesting interview!

[@alandyer910]

Great interview! Very thought provoking. We need to pay more attention to Venus as a target for missions. Perhaps more than Mars, Venus holds the key to understanding Earth. I look forward to the coming interviews. Thank you!

[@Jenab7]

I'm doing some non-astronomical science currently, on the weight of a Snickers candy bar. Update 8 November 2023. N=20 distribution: 52.55 ± 1.133 grams. The advertised weight is 52.7 grams. The candy bars are weighed _after_ the 0.7-gram wrapper is removed, but _before_ any bites are taken.

[@rJaune]

Great video! Is overturning the crust better at cooling the interior of the planet than regular plate tectonics?

[@makeitreality457]

The reason Venus is so hot is mostly due to extreme atmospheric pressure. According to Gay-Lussac's Law, the pressure of a given mass of gas varies directly with the absolute temperature of the gas, when the volume is kept constant. If the pressure was lower, like if you hooked up a giant vacuum cleaner to Venus, the temperature would go down proportionally. Now obviously a vacuum wouldn't work since space is already a vacuum. But you get the idea. So what would work to remove excess atmosphere? Well, some of it is water that boiled away. If it was possible to cool it down, it would rain out, reducing pressure and temperature. It's a catch-22. Great discussion. Much to learn from this video. And in general.

[@SJ-xg1uf]

Hey Frasier. I was just wondering if you still had that video up about Anti matter rockets. I can't find it anywhere.

[@cavetroll666]

very cool topic thanks :)

[@ChemEDan]

Could a breakthrough starshot impactor be used to probe noble gas composition?

[@polyrhythmia]

I've been wondering about the rotation of Venus being so slow. Was Venus always like this?

[@georgelionon9050]

Unless it collided with something that brought rotational momentum, yes.

[@IRLStewie]

Phaeton, remnants from a star going supernova in the constellation of Vela, crashed into Tiamat, transforming into our planet Uraš, with Phaeton spinning off to become Venus.

[@acylonepleidian9665]

Fraser, your question about meteorites and asteroids traversing space from Venus with a trajectory of impact on Earth was excellent, however, you missed the moon. Doesn't the moon, Mars, have a large, vast array of cosmic bodies impacting it which would render the eyes for Venusian rocks not to be on the bottom of the ocean which might be overly similar to Terran rocks, but lunar surfaces with asteroid impacts to be catalogued and find ...funny enough, terran like rocks, which would actually be Venusian rocks? In either case, contamination from the lunar surface, or salinization and other biosphere markers interacting with the fallen Venusian rock at the bottom of Earth's ocean would pose an entire set of methodologies to exctricate whats Earthly and what's not, however with the Moon, the process might be easier given how we'd look for Terran like rocks, which are actually Venusian, so forming differentials of what truly is in said sample once removing all Lunar particles, which by now there'd probably be sand from 20 other impacts and rocks that would interact and contaminate Venusian rock. So tl;dr: Wouldnt it be easier to check on Luna or Mars for Venusian rocks than ocean floors of Earth?

[@AceSpadeThePikachu]

Okay so...we know from Olympus Mons on Mars that a planet doesn't necessarily need to have plate tectonics to have volcanism. The difference just being that Mars's volcanism was entirely hot-spot generated rather than subduction-generated. Is there a fundamental difference in the kinds of gasses we can expect to out-gas from a hot-spot shield volcano as opposed to a subduction ridge? And on that note, why DOESN'T Mars seem to have much nitrogen? Was it all lost to space with most of the rest of its atmosphere or did it never have much nitrogen to begin with? If the latter, why? Also a small correction I want to make about Mars having "cooled down inside." The Insight lander that ended its mission earlier this year determined pretty definitively by measuring seismic activity that Mars does indeed still have a hot molten core and a warm mantle, but the core is slightly less dense than Earth's mostly iron and nickle core, meaning Mars's core might be somewhat diffuse and contaminated with sulfur and silicate compounds, which may in turn make it less electrically conductive which could be the explanation as to why it no longer has a strong magnetic field.

[@Nomad77ca]

What would be the mass range for planets to be able to have long term plate tectonics?

[@bullettube9863]

Now I'm thinking about the Earth's crust, it floats upon a hot center, as the crust cools it solidifies and begins to fracture, but if the surface temperature on Venus is over 600F there might not be enough difference so the crust stays plastic. Is this plausible? As to sending people to Venus, there would be a huge problem dealing with the heat. Air conditioning depends upon removing heat by radiating the heat outward, but this depends upon the excess heat being less then the outside temperature. We have already seen what happens to landers after they landed on the surface, the heat destroyed them in a matter of hours!

[@markgrayson7514]

Setting aside how to get it done; what about pumping/directing hot nitrogen from Venus onto Mars? Would a continuous flow would warm Mars, and allow building an Earth-like atmosphere? Given that technology, what about bombarding Mars with asteroids of wanted materials?

[@spslayback]

Long time listener! FYI your levels seem louder over your guest on this video and you seemed to speak over him some. Maybe his wonky mic and internet gave you problems?

[@rJaune]

Would it be at all possible to detect the flow of the mantle without landing on the surface? Like, maybe they could do it via weather balloon?

[@waynemccormick4773]

given current surface conditions could we ever detect if Venus had life if only for a very fleeting moment.

[@unvergebeneid]

If the entire surface of Venus is young, then no. If there are any spots left of older Venus surface, then maybe.

[@bigJovialJon]

Could tidal forces from the moon have something to do with plate techtonics? Maybe tidal forces contribute a teeny bit of heat to our core and mantle and stir things up a bit encouraging lighter rocks to rise and form continental plates. Or maybe the collision that created the moon stirred things up and gave us more varied geology.

[@Bigandrewm]

One might conclude that in the far, far, very far future the sun might strip enough of Venus' atmosphere that it actually starts to cool, which could start plate tectonics.

[@zapfanzapfan]

We need a lander to the tessera terrain to see if they are remnants of continents.

[@Bitchslapper316]

Thank you for the content Fraser. The moon has to be the key to the stable plate tectonics, active core and magnetic field. Venus is closer to the sun so it has a strong gravitational pull in one direction causing it's rotation to slow over time. The molten mantle and core budge in one direction and create friction on the crust causing the planets spin to slow (tidal lock). A large moon would counteract that. Europa is tugged between Io and Jupiter and has active tectonics. Io and Pluto have different processes but they are similar to tectonics. If Venus had and was able to keep a moon it would probably be similar to earth. Maybe it used to have one in a wide orbit and it got pulled away by the sun a billion years ago. I don't know what I'm talking about but that's my story.

[@davidwebb4451]

Venus' rotation is not only fairly slow it is also in the opposite direction to Earth and the other Solar system planets' rotation. The best theory is that this retrograde rotation was caused by an early collision.

[@Bitchslapper316]

@@davidwebb4451 a collision won't cause the rotation of a planet or moon to almost stop. If that was the only factor it would be spinning in the opposite direction but it's rotation wouldn't have been slowed down to once a year. Tidal lock is proven science and it has been observed throughout our own solar system.

[@CoraxCatcher]

I’d like to think there may be some fragments of buried crust older than 700 m yrs old, perhaps layers that could preserve geologic evidence of life.

[@sunspot42]

The amount of nitrogen in the Venusian atmosphere is interesting. I wonder if the Theia impact blew off much of Earth’s initial atmosphere. Being farther out in the solar nebula I’d expect Earth to have more nitrogen than Venus, not less. That thick atmosphere alone may have resulted in Venus tipping into a runaway greenhouse state much sooner than Earth will.

[@rogerphelps9939]

The Theia impact would have blown off all of Earth's initial atmosphere.

[@DeadMarine1980]

Could it be possible that the "it's a Venus or it's an Earth" is more of a sliding scale? I.e a planet be in-between? A mixture of both? Or is it a binary situation?

[@arnerood690]

So if you wonder why noble gasses can help what explains what happened to Venus atmosphere it all has to do with the mass of the moleculare (molar mass) Essentialy the smaller the mass of a molecule the faster it moves at any given speed for example a H2 molecula at 100°C will move at 1935 m/s whilst a H2O molecule will move at 517m/s. So you can imagen lighter gasses can escape quit easy and it one of the mayor reasons we do not have much hydrogen or helium into our atmosphere. Now the molar mass of water is 18 and neon has a molar mass of 20. This means during a quick escape the entire water molecule leaves and and all the Neon must have left aswel , this doesn't mean this proves the water escaped fast because Venus has 7 parts per million of neon (that seems less then earth but remember Venus atmosphere is 93 times biggers then earth so it is actualy a lot more) But the temperature of venus could have dropped since the water escaped and the neon could have outgassed out of the soil aftherwards with such small numbers (parts per million) that is possible. SO how can scientist tell if it outgassed by it's isotope and they can't do that from earth so we need a venus probe.

[@simfromzim]

If plate tectonics shutdown, can they ever start up again?

[@dougkrultz2149]

Fraisr Cain has a guest talk about another planet. KZbin adds a climate change Context warning 😂

[@frasercain]

Did they really? That's hilarious.

[@dougkrultz2149]

@@frasercain yep, the algorithm at work.

[@Bitchslapper316]

@@frasercain Climate change is so severe now it's melting the ice caps on mars to.

[@kai4314]

KZbin is going runaway on us...

[@DrDeuteron]

@@overtokecomparing it to earth should not trigger a warning. Comparing it with earth on the other hand….

[@vegassims7]

I believe a minor planet or maybe even mercury hit Venus and it rotates the same as the other planets, but its upside down, so its rotation is clockwise instead of anti-clockwise and this would account for its EXTREME slow spin, which is longer then its year.

[@couldntfindafreename]

That would explain why Mercury mostly looks like a planet core, not a full planet. It lost most of its outer layers in that collision.

[@vegassims7]

Excellent point, forget to mention that fact as well. I am really amazed that Astronomers don't even discuss this theory in any papers.@@couldntfindafreename

[@JamesCairney]

One way to ruin a magnet is to heat it up. I'd imagine that trying to decipher the magnetic history of a cooked planet might be near impossible.

[@frasercain]

Yeah, that's what he said. So much for that idea.

[@polyrhythmia]

Neutron stars somehow still manage though.

[@JamesCairney]

@@polyrhythmia the massive magnetic field around a neutron star isn't quite the same as having a look at the polarity of some magnetised stuff. Kinda different.

[@JamesCairney]

@@polyrhythmia I should probably explain the point a bit better. A neutron star acts like a massive dynamo creating a massive field. How hot it is doesn't matter as far as the magnetic field is concerned. The motion of the material creates the field. A magnet is a chunk of stuff that has a magnetic field. It isn't a dynamo. It relies on the magnetic field of each atom within the magnet pointing in the same direction. The accumulation of all the individual magnetic fields pointing in the same direction gives the "magnet" its own magnetic field. Heat allows the individual atoms within the magnet to move. If the individual atoms move, their individual magnetic fields begin to point in different directions and they cancel each other out. The magnet looses its magnetic field entirely. The history of a planets magnetic field is recorded in rocks. A magnetic "imprint" is left on the stone that shows the direction of the field at the point the lava cooled and solidified. If the rock is heated up again to temperatures higher than 200c then the magnetic record is lost, in the same way that heating up a magnet will ruin the magnet. How a neutron star creates its magnetic field and how the magnetic history of a planet is recorded have little to do with each other.

[@Alasdair-Morrison]

If the atmosphere is so dense and traps carbon and heat, then where does all the excess build up go?

[@rJaune]

Does Plate Tectonics necessarily mean that there were continents or water? Do we see where the continents could have been?

[@jimmyquigley7561]

A clockwork rover with a clockwork computer (Nano-Babbage)? Heat resistant elrctronics just for communications, cameras, sensors...

[@chrislong3938]

I don't really see how any planet couldn't have had plate tectonics at some point in their existence...

[@stewartbrennand4987]

If Theia's collision with Earth Instigated tectonics then perhaps tectonics are very rare .

[@webchimp]

Theia basically liquefied the Earth's surface. Most of it was thrown into orbit falling back down with the remainder forming the moon.

[@cjmahar7595]

Doesnt plate tectonics require water?

[@ericsmith6394]

I love the idea of a floating colony on Venus mining the place with big scoops on long cables. If it's anything like Earth it would have significant surface deposits of most things. This would be crazy hard to get started, but the only thing I can think of that stops a long-term blimp colony is hydrogen. No hydrogen = no water 🙁. Could there be enough hydrogen locked in Venus minerals to let us mine H2O from CO2+mineral?

[@frasercain]

There's almost no hydrogen anywhere on Venus. There's sulfuric acid H2SO4, though.

[@unvergebeneid]

Didn't humanity basically strip earth of its surface deposits of minerals way before the industrial age? Generally the resources humanity used in its entire history before the industrial age don't even register compared to our current annual throughput. So I have a hard time imagining it being worthwhile to establish anything but a small outpost for research. A self-sustaining colony doesn't sound economically sound.

[@ericsmith6394]

@@unvergebeneid economically sound for who? People on Earth? It wouldn't be, but I think that's irrelevant. Assuming there's eventually some reason people go there I was wondering if it's possible to survive without outside help. Once you have any habitation at all you'll get some people who don't leave. Once you have people staying they'll be trying to improve and expand their lifestyle. That becomes a de facto colony. The motivation isn't economics. It's "this is home".

[@unvergebeneid]

@@ericsmith6394 We have a science outpost in Antarctica. Don't see anyone who insists on staying there. Or anyone who wants to throw money at making that self-sustainable. Why would they? Could it be done with today's technology, building greenhouses, powered by a nuclear reactor or something... sure. But it's not economically viable, so it's not done. Same for turning the Sahara desert into a self-sustaining solar desalination greenhouse paradise. It can be done. Nobody's doing it though. Why? Because economics, that's why. It's sad but it's true.

[@NullHand]

As far as I know, the only way to make massive carbonate formations requires liquid water. Preferably Ocean sized. If Venus never had, or lost liquid surface water, it would have no sink for the steady release of CO2 from the mantle.

[@rienkhoek4169]

If we had to create another planet to live, ( terraforming), would you choose Mars or Venus? Which would be less impossible?

[@douglaswilkinson5700]

Venus receives 91% more solar radiation than Earth. Even terraformed it'd be too hot.

[@Wolf-Spirit_Alpha-Sigma]

I would pick Venus in a heartbeat. All the ingredients for terraforming are basically there already - gravity, thicc atmosphere and warmth. Because life finds a way, I would (if I had Elon's money) fund bioengineering project to create a microorganism that can thrive in Venus' atmosphere. That microorganism could probably evolve and diversify by itself to create some sort of ecosystem.

[@dadsonworldwide3238]

Regurgitating of earths surface largely inspired the source of theorizing tectonic plates in the first place. Unless Venus is catchphrically recovered all at once it sounds very reversed thought experiments

[@davidshafer1872]

QUESTION: If Venus had plate tectonics, does that mean Venus had a stronger magnetic field, which is now weakening? If yes, would a weakening magnetic field mean one day the co2 trapped on Venus would be blown away by the solar wind and kind be another Mars?

[@1nvertedReality]

Well the Earth was halved and reformed more recently when Phaeton was hit sending half into a lower orbit and the rest became the asteroid belt. While Venus wasn't so tectonics ceased long ago. We was Phaetonians! What? The video title was rhetorical? My answer still stands!

[@petevenuti7355]

What I never hear is the idea that Venus would be the norm for a solar system like ours! I think the Earth getting hit by Theia defined it, I expect such a catastrophe would have ripped off much of the Earth's atmosphere (if not all of it at the time). It's not why Venus has so much N2 , but how much got blasted off earth!. Theia impact causing the moon likely also ramped up Earth's rotation, caused plate tectonics, the moon's tidal forces likely help keep the mantle molten so it continues to this day. So Venus would be the norm. I also have the theory life had more to do with it, maybe life started on Venus but only developed sulphur metabolism, making lot's of acid preventing carbonate formation and never had photosynthesis using CO2! Venus's atmosphere may have been created by life! Maybe both Earth and Venus would have had atmospheres like Titan but denser if life never developed and Theia never happened!

[@spellkowski6996]

bro you are a machine

[@frasercain]

Thanks. But we do have a team. 😀

[@roadwarrior6555]

Every time Venus comes up, I wonder if there is way to remove or thin out the atmosphere with charged particles or radiation from man made devices orbiting Venus. If so, we could make it more liveable.

[@davidwebb4451]

Probably best to put a shield between the sun and Venus to cool it down. When the temperature falls sufficiently the sulphuric acid should start raining out of the atmosphere and the exposed rocks will likely also then start reacting with the Co2 in the atmosphere. Over time this should reduce the size of the atmosphere and the pressure. That's my guess as to what would happen anyway - but I'm not a chemist.

[@johndoepker7126]

"...on Ceti Alpha 5 there was life...." "THIS, IS CETI ALPHA 5!" (...since you're on a star trek theme....)

[@MrJdsenior]

You'll have to ask the Greek mythologists, or perhaps her precursor, Uranus. Just don't query mine.

[@bretthathaway1951]

Given the size similarities to earth, why is the gravity so much higher?

[@ReinReads]

Venus gravity is only 90% of earth’s. You are likely confusing surface gravity with surface pressure. The surface pressure is a measure of the atmosphere above you if you were standing on the surface. Because of Venus’ atmospheric composition it is significantly more dense than earth’s. Which is why the surface pressure is about 98 times higher.

[@frasercain]

The gravity is slightly lower.

[@bretthathaway1951]

you're correct (not real smart on this topic). So why is the "surface pressure" so much greater?

[@pauldavis1943]

Venus has no magnetosphere right? Just because the surface is too hot for heat differential?

[@jamesw5713]

Id guess plate tectonics requires water as a lubricant?

[@boba2783]

Ask Myron Cook

[@cookiekitty1000]

I love the climate change advisory notice on a video about Venus. . .

[@frasercain]

Pretty hilarious.

[@michaelblacktree]

Algorithm's gonna algorithm, I guess. 🙄

[@winstonmontgomery8211]

Venus and Mars didn't have a huge moon like Earth to help create the 4 seasons. So this hage ramifications on any life being able to survive on both thise planets.

[@Rob81k]

Tip: before recording, make sure everybody has a proper mic, send them one if they have none if you can afford it (it may even pay itself back). Most people watch these videos for fun, but with this audio quality it becomes more a chore than fun, and I'm out.

[@TheJackelantern]

Could Venus be too small to have been able to sustain plate tectonics?

[@rogerphelps9939]

No. Venus is not much smaller than Earth.

[@TheJackelantern]

@rogerphelps9939 Thanks, I was just curious if that difference in size might be a contributing factor to its tectonics possibly being more sensitive to shutting down than Earth's. I appreciate the answer :)

[@PeterKnagge]

If Venus went rogue would it still have a greenhouse effect?

[@waynemccormick4773]

Unless we discover something extremely valuable on Venus, it will be the last body in the Solar System we set foot upon. In the words of Robert Falcon Scott "This is an awful place!"

[@frasercain]

That's why I always threaten to push it into the Sun.

[@kx4532]

We need that moon to drag these plates around maybe

[@bozo5632]

Maybe the moon-forming collision started tectonics.

[@rwarren58]

WF? I’m a bit behind on my slang. Enlightenment please? And I heard that someone wanted to probe those slabs of Theia. Can we please just not mess with the Earth’s core?

[@FunkyLoiso]

❓What are unambiguous macroscopic effects of life on planet Earth?

[@NicholasColdingDK]

I have just been informed by KZbin that this video might violate rules about climate changes or Covid19! Thats funny! :)

[@GIRGHGH]

I was there was a way to tell the info videos apart from the interviews, I don't really like interviews.

[@lyledal]

Could life have been the cause of Earth's plate tectonics?

[@benjaminbeard3736]

No, the geologic cycle is driven by energy/temperature gradients which give rise to a dynamic system. Volcanoes cause seafloor spreading and the heating differences causes the motion of tectonic plates. The lighter plates float to the surface while heavier plates sink to be recycled. Life is not needed to start or sustain this process.

[@Bitchslapper316]

@@benjaminbeard3736 Tell that to climate alarmists.

[@-dimar-]

We should move all mining and manufacturing to Venus and Mars

[@MrJdsenior]

Nah, Alpha Centauri.

[@kypickle8252]

the moon is a far better source of raw materials than venus or mars It's so much closer than both of them, and im sure you already know this but it is big enough to support a large-scale mining industry. The Moon's gravity is also weak enough that it is actually cheaper to launch something from the moon to low earth orbit than it is to launch the same payload from earth to low earth orbit the moon is the future of mining, not mars or venus, which are months if not years away (compared to days for the moon) and venus's surface is basically inaccessible due to the surface pressure and heat which makes launching rockets and mining material extremely difficult

[@davidmcsween]

But that would ruin the local environment 😢 just because it sux for us doesn't mean we should go and make a mess there

[@couldntfindafreename]

Nothing went "horribly wrong" on Venus. It is just a different planet, that's all. We may want to relax our very human perspective to be more open-minded for planets in other solar systems.

[@arthurballs9632]

Drivel

[@samirhachad643]

Why venus has an atmosphere in the first place🤔, Didn't it have to be swept by the solar wind billions of years ago?🤨!?!

[@Islander2112]

The planet rotates in retrograde to the rest of the solar system, very slowly, and its proximity to the sun as well doomed that world. Never had a chance.

[@tactileslut]

Those Bose headphones really need the Apple codecs to sound okay as a microphone. Mine sound this bad on my Android.

[@DrDeuteron]

Omg, now all I can hear is every sniff, Puff, and snort compared with Fraser’s smooth delivery.

[@tactileslut]

@@DrDeuteron I've seen enough Royal Institute recordings to have almost come past the breathing and mouth noises but the muffled quality of a narrow frequency response with a pass at trying to improve it in software after the loss is baked in gives a distracting result.

[@dustman96]

Maybe Venus had a civilization like ours and they did what we are doing. A glimpse of the future of Earth?

[@DrDeuteron]

Yup, those women screwed the whole thing up.

[@davidwebb4451]

We won't do it but the predictions are that Earth will end up an even more hellish place than present day Venus. The Sun is getting hotter as it ages and in about a billion years time the Earth's oceans will boil away and the Earth will then rapidly follow the same path Venus did with a run-away green house effect. Long before that though, probably around 500 million years in the future, the increased temperature will have killed off plants and complex life just leaving bacteria

[@kalrandom7387]

He really tried to use his big boy voice the whole video. 250 million years ago (the great dying) earth was cracked by a very big rock. I think that was the key to us having plate tectonics, with the combination of the way over sized moon.

[@jiafjioawefjio3f9034]

Earth got hit by a mars sized planet about a billion years before our own plate tectonics started. Coincidence?

[@geofflewis8599]

..are there rivers of gold on Venus?..

[@sleepy_143]

Why does KZbin feel the need to add "Context" to this video and again remind me that I'm a terrible human being because I use a gas stove?

[@frasercain]

You wrecked Venus.

[@NIL0S]

What happens in Venus stays in Venus...

[@bato2699]

All it needs is a moon to start spinning

[@davisjugroop3782]

Does oil and water play a major role ? If yes, could removing fossil fuel affect earths magnetic field and tectonics.

[@timhaldane7588]

Not trying to be impolite here, but was there something between the combination of the echoey acoustics and the pronounced vocal fry that made this guest extremely difficult to listen to for anyone else? Or just me? I don't know why but it was like nails on a chalkboard. Never had a reaction like that. Weird.

[@krumplethemal8831]

No. Why does everyone miss the ONE obvious reason Venus is so hot? How long is 1 venus day? It takes Venus 243 earth days for venus to spin ONCE. This is the main reason its so hot. ,99% the reason. Its not some mystery..

[@frasercain]

So if Venus turned in 24 hours it would be cool? And it has nothing to do with 93 times the atmospheric pressure and carbon dioxide?

[@krumplethemal8831]

@@frasercain this is partly why it has the atmospheric pressure that it does. When a gas heats up it expands, it can only expand so much in a given volume. The rise in temperature releases more gas trapped inside the rocks and crust. Also the sulfuric acid rain also releases trapped gasses inside the rocks. Add a few billion years of this you get a very dense atmosphere. Venus never had water. Venus was never "cool" or temperate. It's slow spin has caused it to bake in solar radiation. It also spins opposite of the Earth making it's daylight exposure even longer. Around 2,928 hours of daylight hitting the same portion of the planet.

[@arturoeugster7228]

Runway green house? You are forgetting the enormous heating from the radioisotope decay inside this vastly immense internal volume of the Earth sized planet Venus. The high temperature of the tiny volume of the thin crust, as far as we can only guess , is the power exchange between the high solar input and the geothermal power, with the radiation to space. As soon as you mentioned 'green house effect runaway, your entire message turned to 'garbage' for lack of a better word.

[@frasercain]

So you don't think that 93 times Earth's atmospheric pressure, made of mostly carbon dioxide isn't doing the majority of the heating on Venus?

[@arturoeugster7228]

@@frasercain Do the math! Hint : extend W.Happer and Schwarzschild calculations. The missing link, the distribution of heavy elements depends on the proximity to the sun, and the neutron density is much higher, causing actual fission reactions in the core. The result : much higher internal heat production. Apply the Stephan Boltzmann law ~T⁴ It beats every 'insulation' effect CO² absorption and remission at the 15 micrometer resonant frequency of the CO2 molecule bending mode or the 4.27 micrometer near IR C atom translation mode. Maybe you don't know that temperature corresponds to velocity of the molecules colliding, CO2 does not heat up, the internal vibrations of the four different interactions between the internal C atom and the two opposite located oxygen atoms have four vibration modes: the symmetric longitudinal lengthwise linear motion of the oxygen atoms, the back and forth lateral motion of the carbon atom and the two bending modes of the out of acid moving carbon, Only the last three produce a dipole that interacts with the photon of the right , resonant frequency. The symmetric mode does not interact with the photons because no dipole is formed. This vibrational modes absorb and reemmit in a different direction the energy, which is the resonant frequency times Plank's constant h = 6.62 10^-34 joule seconds this has nothing to do whatsoever with temperature. In the average the effect is like a half mirror, ½ of the photons have an earth bound component. This sharp frequency is smeared by the spectrometer limitations, so it is not a band. When you use Schrödinger equation analysis, then you see higher frequency modes 4, 9, 16...resonating at lower wavelengths. TBC.

[@canonwright8397]

The best way to get a Venus rock would be to send a nuclear rocket to blow up the top of the highest mountain, then BOOM! Blow it up and collect the chunks in orbit. Muhahahhah! sorry. =].

[@NorthernChev]

My goodness, does Matt need to say, "ha!" Or laugh in response to every single question Fraser asks?

[@frasercain]

YES! It's part of the deal. You laugh at all my jokes. ALL OF THEM.

[@hive_indicator318]

Even more than you needed to intentionally type this, he needed to have verbal tics. Because he's human.

[@michaelblacktree]

This is an odd thing to be nitpicky about. Do you interact with real humans on a regular basis?

[@NorthernChev]

@@hive_indicator318I think you hit the nail on the head. That's what it is, verbal tics.

[@MiccaPhone]

Bad audio - no fun - I am annoyed and out. Bye!

[@DrDeuteron]

We gotta stop with the kilometers, it turns ppl off to science.

[@smeeself]

Science is done in metric.