EP259 - PHEV Engine: higher RPMs, more charge?

Don't be concerned, there was not traffic, no cars, no houses, no animals when I did the test. Just me, the PHEV and the open road.
Glad you all voted for longer videos. Here it is :)
Today we're having a look at the engine side of things in the PHEV and trying to see what happens if the engine and generator revs up. Does this deliver more charge into the battery too?
A test, we haven't done before!
Change.org Petition for a battery/software fix from Mitsubishi Japan:
www.change.org...
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Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Group (Tips, Tricks, Experiences, help and assistance):
/ outlanderphev
Mitsubishi Outlander Phev Battery/Bmu issue Group:
/ 2193599527399011
PHEV Watchdog (battery and car monitoring system):
www.phevwatchdo...
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Music by
MBB, Finland
/ mbbofficial
All music licensed under a Creative Commons Licence if not otherwise stated.
creativecommon...
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[@philippeschick]

Andy, watching you struggle with the tape totally made my day. Bloody tape dispenser gets me every time. 😂. Thx for the great video!

[@tadrian33]

Andy, I love your sense of humor! I don't even own a Outlander PHEV and I am always looking forward to your videos to see how excited or disappointed you are with the vehicle. I am looking to purchase a new vehicle and I found your videos because I have been researching the PHEV and I am on the fence if I should purchase it over a Rav4 Hybrid. I like that the PHEV can run 100% electric because my commute to work is under 15 kms each way so I could run it 100% off the battery and not use any gas. I also like that Mitsubishi has a 10 year warranty on the power train and batteries. By the way, I really hate (envy) that you are complaining about the weather being so hot in the Winter in Australia, I live in Canada and today the high was 25 degrees Celsius and it is Summer here.

[@unpluggedEV]

Thanks, Trev. You're a true fan of the show :) Don't buy the Rav4 "Self-Charging" Hybrid. You will always be better of with the PHEV having control over when to drive in which mode. 15km is in the ideal range for this vehicle, summer and winter. Sorry about the weather, hahaha. I'm not complaining, this was one reason for us to move down here from cold Germany. Not looking back to these cold winters...

[@TL-xw6fh]

Thank you, mein herr. You made a very dry subject so much more interesting! I have been looking at electric cars, hybrids or PHEVs, and been following you for a month now. Never a dull moment, and I've learned so much from you.

[@unpluggedEV]

Thank you very much for your feedback!

[@odinterimon]

Andy, Good Job m8 👍 glad to see we are back to a reasonable length of video, we appreciate your efforts 😎 Almost feeling guilty you used petrol to show everyone about the Phev, but it was entertaining & useful for everyone, as even when you know this stuff, its nice to see it confirmed in a vid' made in the harsh cold winter of Aus' 🤣 so you braved the harsh winter cold AND unselfishly used your petrol, a Top You Tube host...5* service.... Thx m8 😎👍

[@unpluggedEV]

Thanks Chris. I actually turned on the heating (cause I'm a bit soft) but haven't shown this in the video. Too embarrassing...

[@ryanjonathan84]

Keep uploading video's Andy! You are the reason we finally decided to buy a second hand Outlander PHEV from the dealer here in The Netherlands!

[@unpluggedEV]

Oh, some advertising for Mitsubishi!

[@copysoftltd]

I don' t have PHEV yet, but soon I ma going to get one. That's why I watch and wait for each of your videos. I wonder what the difference will be if you drive not is charge mode, but in battery save mode. What the RPM will be and the overall consumption. If you can explain the difference between two modes it will be very interesting. Thank you for all you are doing for all current and future owners of Mitsubishi PHEV.

[@unpluggedEV]

Thanks Atanas. I'll do a separate video on this topic.

[@airestocky]

many thanks, Andy, for your effort to answer questions here. And, as always, it was a joy to watch! I think you'll never get those sticky tapes off the whiteboard again, they're made to hold everything forever - or you have to destroy the whiteboard? hm, just make a video "how to get those huge sticky tapes off a whiteboard in Australia winter time during full moon" or something like this :-)

[@Trades46]

the way the Outlander PHEV operates is far different than most hybrids with a parallel planetary gear split system (e.g. Toyota, Ford, Chrysler etc.). Those ones have the engine, electric motor, generator & wheels all physically connected in a single planetary gearset which supposedly helps efficiency (less power losses) but the Mitsubishi system creates more of a pure EV drive than competitor systems. P.S. to my knowledge, the 2.0L engine in the Outlander PHEV is restricted to a maximum operating speed of 4500rpm (the redline) to protect over-revving the electrical generator. This also partially explains why the engine produced "only" 117hp - it can barely rev at all by design. That said the newer 2.4L engine in the MY2019+ may be different.

[@Larsema1]

As far as I know, the generator and electrical motor in the front is always working since it is connected as a "variable gearbox" via a planetgear together with the gas engine. Thats why you can have different rpm:s in the same speed even in "direct mode". If you push the gas pedal for example, the gas engine revs up a lot and the electrical motor revs down to make the planet gerbox act as a lower gear. Most planet gears have one fixed part and two, but the PHEV has three moving parts. Outer, inner, and planet gears. So it has two input axis for the motors, and one mixed output with the sum of gas and electric motors. That way the PHEV can use an optimal rpm in different speeds and needs.

[@pitiglobos]

Congrats again, great video and explanations, but... beware the traffic. 👏👏👏😉

[@unpluggedEV]

There was no traffic, no cars at all, just empty straight road...

[@evfun7853]

HI Andy! Your video is brilliant, but! It works only when the power demand car has at the moment is lower than what the petrol engine can deliver. Only then the whole system works. I am in the Croatia right now and I towed the 1 tone caravan with me here. And what was a surprise to me is the fact that the engine cannot deliver that much power car wants during the normal stable drive around 95km/h so the battery is not charged almost never, even more, the battery is being drained constantly even below 25% SoC while going uphill for example. At the result the car switches into the "turtle mode" and slows down to the 65km/h, system jumps into the serial mode so that the generator can produce more energy than the two electric motors need to spin the wheels. That was a surprise to me, because I expected that car while working on combustion engine is self-sufficient and will not drain its own battery on death. But assuming that the petrol engine uses only "a fifth" gear even going uphill with almost 3,5 tones of load it is quite obvious that it cannot handle that alone and needs electric motors for help. In that same case the other car would reduce the gear to four or three even and will use more fuel, but keep the same speed. PHEV can't do that. That leads to the not very optimistic conclusion that even if our PHEV is certified to tow 1500kg it is not designed very well to tow big, tall trailers like caravans for the longer distance than around 200-300km with the higher speed than 65 km/h. So German's hilly highways (authobans) are not the best roads for PHEV with big trailers.

[@unpluggedEV]

That is absolutely correct. If you demand more energy than the engine can deliver, it will drain the battery until the vehicle stops. I did not want to elaborate on this problem in this video here as it was already long and complicated enough.

[@Larsema1]

In Sweden you are not allowed to tow above 80km/h so thats not an issue here. The gas is also very expensive so you hardly want to go over 70km/h with a big trailer.

[@svenrust2136]

Andi, nice Video again. I tried to charge as much as possible at the way to the „Wacken Open Air“ and found you can‘t charge more then 83% SOC in charge mode. nearly the same as on fastcharging station. The engine cut off by themself shortly after 80% SOC. Didn‘t know this before :-) Background was, it was not possible to charge at the festival, but would have enough energy to charge the cell phones and use the 230V for cooling some food over the weekend.

[@unpluggedEV]

I tested this as well a while back and the engine did not turn off in mine at this point of time: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5LIqoGsh56Wg9E Wacken? Are they still doing this? Thought they called it off decades ago. Metal is not my thing...

[@aussiescotty2950]

Hi Andy, my god, the wives think we can't multitask you are the best - averaging an eye road/everything else ratio of 1:10 check it yourself, 1 seconds with eyes on road 10 secs off, etc. Be careful mate we want you in the next episode with that incredible technology with a smart phone battery (should be larger). Cheers

[@unpluggedEV]

As I said in the video, there was no cars, no traffic, nothing. Just dead straight Australian road ;) And me...

[@nadnerb2k]

Great viddy. My understanding of the difference between "charge" and 'save" on the freeway, though, was that in charge, the engine is always on, whereas in save it turns itself off for a while to keep the battery at whatever level it was at when you pressed the button. As for charging from the ICE standing still: I use that feature when towing my caravan if there's no Charge points around (which is always, when you've got a caravan, as it's nearly impossible to park near one), depending on my route. Going to the snowy mountains, I wanted to avoid going into turtle mode on hills as much as possible. On flatter routes with multi-lane roads I don't worry about it as much. It also means the engine spends less time at 4,000rpm. Seems to take an hour to go from 0-80% battery when charging from ice (haven't timed it properly yet), at 4 litres that seems pretty close to 10-12l/100km (when you're not towing!)

[@unpluggedEV]

Ah, good point, I didn't think about the towing situation when you need the battery power. That is correct, charge->engine does not stop, save->engine alternates with motors

[@tuberculous4691]

​@@unpluggedEV Yeah that was a bit confusing - you appeared to imply a couple of times in the video that in a high power demand situation in parallel mode it's only the engine driving the wheels. However that's not the case and the battery often helps cover the difference between what the engine with clutch engaged can provide, and the actual power demanded. This is typically seen at low parallel speeds around 80kmh (thus low engine and gen RPMs), going up a hill/bridge, and the reason why people who tow need to keep the charge mode on to pre-charge before reaching hills to avoid turtle mode in hill climbing situations which quickly deplete the battery while it provides the supplementary power.

[@unpluggedEV]

@@tuberculous4691 That is absolutely correct. I didn't want to show and explain this in this video as it was already long and complicated enough. It is a special case because the engine has only one gear and is not powerful enough without the battery support.

[@psi20]

Andy if you drive in charge mode with 4wd lock the fuel instant consumption is lower, due to the electric assit on the rear axis.

[@unpluggedEV]

No, that is not the case. The engine will run longer in hybrid mode when charging the battery to overcome the additional electricity been used by the rear motor. Even the motor is more efficient, the energy needs to come from somewhere. Fuel.

[@airestocky]

Watchdog App provides really a lot of information...

[@adrenlynl7339]

Wow, jus found ur channel, fantastic! Loving the PHev (this far 2 years in). So I used to use Save mode for 450km runs (110km speed limit), sounds like Charge mode could be better?

[@unpluggedEV]

Charge mode can be better if you don't charge too high. It throttles the charging speed at around 80%. So if you use charge mode and charge to 70% and then drive in EV mode again, it could be more efficient. It all depends on the speed and environment you drive in.

[@adrenlynl7339]

@@unpluggedEV cool thanks. I have done a few trips on Save mode and can easily make it with a full tank of fuel and tricity. Will give it a go! Thanks for all ur vids!

[@flanagon360]

how did you increase the range of your car you said a year ago you couldn't make that journey and now you have more?

[@Darrenhd2]

Great video Andy, one of your best. Thanks and keep them coming!

[@unpluggedEV]

Thanks, Darren!

[@yggdrasil9039]

Good video. But I thought in a hybrid system that there is no actual connection between the engine and the wheels, that everything goes via the battery. This I think is the case in the Toyota hybrid system anyway, both the hybrid and the PHEV. The engine is just a generator and there is no contact. That's why Prius engines for instance last so long and are in such good condition.

[@unpluggedEV]

Only in a series-hybrid, there is no connection. The PHEV is a parallel AND series hybrid AND electric vehicle at the same time. Great right?!

[@yggdrasil9039]

Oh wow, parallel, series and full EV, all via the front wheels. So the series and EV mode is via an inductor, and the parallel engine drive is direct via a clutch system, oder? I would want a decent guarantee from the manufacturer for that. Not singing Toyota's praises over-much as they are very sluggish on getting into EVs and PHEVs to market (they won't even bring the Prius Plugin here to Australia), and I would say their attitude is almost complacent to the coming EV revolution, but they do at least guarantee their hybrid systems for 10 years. I heard good things about the Outlander PHEV, but wonder about the longevity of such a system.

[@unpluggedEV]

@@yggdrasil9039 series mode: engine produces electricity to drive the car via the motors. Parallel mode: clutch drives front wheels and generator also charges battery. Pretty reliable so far...

[@yggdrasil9039]

Right. Good to hear - danke für die Auskunft. Keep up the good work.

[@gual-xz9fw]

BTW Andy....it's 17c here in UK - MIDSUMMER- Dass gibts doch nicht!! I ean the weather not my battery

[@larsjakobsen5985]

4 liter pr. hour to charge the battery. How long time does the PHEV use to charge to full from 'empty'? Prices here in Greenland are: 5,20 DKK. (0,77 USD) pr. 1 liter petrol. And 1,65 DKK(0,25USD)/kWh. The question is just for try to answer: How much does it cost for me to charge the battery from empty to full? 1. From engine of the car 2. Electric plug

[@unpluggedEV]

Takes around 1h to charge the battery to around 85% with the engine. Don't do it, waste of money and creates more emissions which is not the purpose of the car.

[@melvynlight4375]

Andy, great video. I notice when my 19 model Phev is in charge or save mode my power gauge on the dashboard goes from the green eco section to the white power section but your car during this test never did, why is this?

[@unpluggedEV]

Power section is only for power! If you hammer it, it will go in the power section. I never do that to prevent the engine from coming on while driving in EV mode. I keep the right foot very light to keep it in the green (EV) area.

[@maddoxlopez5748]

Hi Andy thanks for your video I just have a question my dealership just have service my vehicle battery I just have problem now been 2 weeks since this happen and I noticed that my battery on the dash only full charge from 20-25 kWh instead of 38 kWh hope you could give me some clarifications thanks so much I know you did give up your PHEV for a Tesla

[@unpluggedEV]

That's just the nature of the Mitsubishi software. Back to the dealer and keep annoying them until it is fixed.

[@JB1978]

Is the generator at fixed gear ratio relative to the ICE?

[@unpluggedEV]

Yes, engine and gen rev with a fixed ratio.

[@antetarokic]

1/2 gallon ( US ) to change 80% of battery and then engine will stop .

[@unpluggedEV]

Mine never stopped at 80%. At least not while driving. It's far to expensive to charge it stationary.

[@walterk8602]

@@unpluggedEV I only use charge mode for 2 circumstances. 1. At all times during long journeys, unless I know there is a charger at my next overnight stop. This is to make sure I can get the maximum total range should I need it. 2. When I'm going to a petrol station to fill up, so that I get max electric range and min fuel use from the station to home. (I can't get home from my petrol station on a full charge without the engine starting)

[@NoelRCrawford]

@@unpluggedEV Fabulous series of videos!!! Best of all available on youtube! Thank you! So when driving on the highway from 75 kph and above when you know there is no charging point ahead you would use tarmac/traction mode (parallel mode) and Charge mode to charge the battery as much as possible? Below 75kph you would use Normal mode (series/serious mode :) ) and Charge mode. Once charged in both cases you would revert to pure EV mode. Am I correct? I have 2023 top end Outlander PHEV (GT Premium) here in Victoria, Canada. Absolutely love your videos. I am getting phenomenal EV range from the 20kwh battery anywhere from 70 kms at the low end with more assertive driving and 100kms+ at the high end when driving very conservatively/ hypermiling from 40-60kph. I have photos to prove. I find I can get 80+ kms when driving using ACC from 80-105 kph. Coasting/gliding works great. Thank you again for your outstanding videos.

[@jazdan223]

As always great video, great test Andy. Finally long movie so I have a long comment :-) Last holiday I was driving long distances, total c.a. 5000 km. 2 times 1200 km at one day and I need to say that this system is not that perfect as it could be. When driving slow, changing speed, driving on mountains, we can have and we for sure have profit of this constant switching on/off petrol engine.. But if I drive on highway constant 130km/h I will never believe that charging / discharging driving electric/fossil can be more efficient than constant mechanical transfer of power directly from petrol engine to the wheels. Charging/discharging batteries is creating not only chaos but also a lot of waste of energy, much more than waste in any mechanical transmission (except for hydr torque converter without lock-up) So I thing there could be something to improve specific on flat long journeys.. My point is that if I push "save battery" button, battery shouldn't be used for car drive, just charging if there is excess of energy, maybe small support on uphill or overtaking.. The best system can not able to predict how fast and style driver want to chose . Therefore that button (or other) should be kind of information transfer between me and car, which could help achieve better economy. Consumption I had on road was over 10 l /100km. car is telling me proudly that 50 % is electric drive but it is a fake, petrol engine was charging batteries for most of the time. Second, why mechanical power is disconnecting when I want to accelerate hard or driving uphill with empty battery ? Power is going from ICE across battery to electric engines.. Is there no CVT transmission ?? Should be, not just fast 5th gear like you said Andy...

[@USUG0]

I believe, the motor should work just as a motor-generator. With a 20-25kWh battery and more powerful electric motors, then you could achieve 20km/L when driving in hybrid mode. BTW, not yet clear if the front motor is a separate unit, or is the generator working as both?

[@davewoodward9359]

Hi Andy Love your videos, I can't make my mind up about getting a PHEV I tow a caravan and not many reviews about towing with the PHEV that comment on hill climbing abilities. Did the increase in engine size to 2.4lt come about to help improve towing ability? I have a 2lt Honda petrol crv which is hopeless at towing so I use 2.7lt (203bhp) Jag to tow my caravan but would like to replace both cars with a PHEV. Any comments on towing up hills would be welcome.

[@unpluggedEV]

Hi Dave, I don't think the upgraded engine will make a huge difference. The problem in this particular case is that the engine has a fixed 'gear' when driving the front wheels and at lower speeds (80km/h) it cannot produce enough power to drive the car with caravan without support of the EV system. If your battery is empty you will see the turtle and have to stop and stationary charge the battery for a moment, before you can continue your journey.

[@johnemb]

Great educational video, thanks 👍

[@khaan0001]

Brilliant video!!! Thx Andy.!

[@PlanetCypher_]

Great video Andy, yes I will watch it again a few times. 👍

[@unpluggedEV]

Hahaha, thanks.