Until Dawn vs The Quarry: Which Game is Better?

[@Troopertroll]

I played Until Dawn "until dawn" with friends at a Halloween game night I hosted. Each person played a different character when the perspective changed, and as the hours went on, only a handful of us were left awake and had their characters survive. The sun peaked out in real life as the game concluded - start around 10 PM and your playthrough will sync perfectly with the sunrise. What an amazing horror experience. I still want to play The Quarry, but I doubt it will measure up.

[@SoulwaxHD]

I wouldn’t recommend playing The Quarry the same way because of the fact that like 2 of the playable characters just get shoved aside gameplay wise and it might make people resent having to play that character

[@vargsieber]

I did the until dawn until dawn thing a lot (with all the dark pictures games tbh), where I live I wouldn't recommend it with until dawn or the quarry in the summer because if you start when the sun goes down it's already up before you get to chapter 9 and in winter you are done 2 hours before dawn.

[@Burberryharry]

that sounds like so much fun

[@claranunes5576]

Duuude that's so cool

[@AdelinChiran]

​@@SoulwaxHD Doesn't the same thing happen to Jessica and Matt in Until Dawn near the end of the game?

[@therealspacecoyote]

Until Dawn is the clear lone S Tier of all the Supermassive/Dark Pictures games because of the writing and character development. Full stop.

[@Rognik]

I think the main problem is all the other movie-like games, they try to mimic the Until Dawn formula but miss something crucial.

[@Stanlos]

💯

[@acheroneclypse277]

It's because they don't have the backing and budget that Sony gave them for Until Dawn, but also, the writing seems worse somehow. I feel like it's different people doing these stories

[@bell5248]

its boring as hell

[@cardrop33]

@@bell5248how?

[@Yumachuu]

Until Dawn was really terrifying for me, someone who wasn’t familiar with the wendigo. The Quarry however was less terrifying and less connecting.

[@briannguyen6248]

Same, to this day I haven’t been able to watch a full play though of Until Dawn lmao 🤣 I did with the Quarry however. I read Until Dawn on the wiki though 😅

[@Nioriel26]

I was wondering why I love watching the Quarry despite having a lot of critiques about it. I really enjoyed playing it and love watching blind playthroughs. Until Dawn however I cannot watch it as much but it being more immersive over all makes sense. That means I'm not just casually watching or playing the game in the background but I'm fully invested in the story so it's a lot more intense.

[@Gr4ntwolf]

the werewolves sucked in the quarry

[@XavierShade]

Until Dawn felt like your choices actually mattered and the characters felt realistic, making choices that made sense, changing how they interact with others later on. The Quarry had really cringy characters that were hard to relate to and the choices felt more superfluous and only changing whether or not the character survived. Not to mention the fact that The Quarry's story only happens because one of the characters sabotages their only mode of transportation to help a character they don't like, try to get some ass. Until Dawn's start is interesting and makes sense in universe. Gary hit the nail on the head with the monster issues. Like why do Werewolves if your hair sims are so bad you just take them out?

[@professorwright1428]

I think you're severely overselling the amount of choices that matter in Until Dawn. All of those games have choices that really only impact who lives and dies, but The Quarry can have separate climaxes or not even have a tenth chapter if the right choices are made. You're not going to meet Silas no matter what. It's entirely possible to miss the resolution of the curse. Meanwhile Sam and Mike will always blow the Wendigos up. 9/10 times it'll be Sam, and occasionally it'll be Mike, even if Mike was thrown against the wall in the way that usually counts as his death.

[@atrustworthyfellow6887]

@@professorwright1428 key point is "felt like your choices matter." Even exceptional games with "choice matters" often make the value of a choice pretty small compared to how much they try to make the choice FEEL like it mattered. Cause that's what affects a gamer the most. How they felt, not what happened without them realizing.

[@professorwright1428]

@@atrustworthyfellow6887 I will take my choices actually mattering in The Quarry vs them only superficially feeling like they matter in Until Dawn any day.

[@redscorner4324]

I thought this design of tye werewolves were actually pretty interesting. The design is similar to the one the Harry Potter movies used for Lupin's design when he turns. The hairy, more wolf like werewolves have been used quite a bit. I thought the skin exploding off and the monster being underneath was really neat honestly. The teeth and almost glowing eyes also add to the uncanny Valley

[@ianhabbie7201]

I quarry characters actually felt like real friends and young people tho...and I really hated Until dawn characters cuz they were anoying, doesnt felt like real people

[@TeemoTemosson]

This video is criminally underwatched for how well it is produced.

[@TheHotCross]

Thanks! I really appreciate that! I'm glad you liked the video! A lot went into it! ☺

[@certifiedhoodclassic9825]

i agree, it’s an amazing vid!

[@kul2130]

-Read the title. -"Until Dawn". -Keep scrolling.

[@vksemiramis]

Amen to that!

[@Guz-Guz]

As always mind blown at the quality of your video! The editing, research, the whole shebang is so well done and charming and you do it all by yourself! The opener had me grinning already, chefs kiss. Yours are part of a view videos I'm excited to sit down and do nothing but watch and absorb. The biggest difference between the games for me was always that The Quarry felt like a rushed, bit loveless filler episode while Until Dawn was the big, fleshed out season finale. And thanks to you I finally understand why the games feel that way!

[@garbagetoaster8828]

Apparently Covid fucked over The Quarry production, so I appreciate it for what they managed to do with restrictions. Give the developers a medal for the gymnastics they had to do in order to get the game out in the first place. It’s a deeply flawed game, but I enjoy it.

[@ArtemisDalmasca]

Until Dawn was superior in every way to the Quarry, just like you said! One thing I will point out with the Quarry is actually a really big plot hole involving Caleb and Kaylee. So, while they are roaming free through the night, one has to ask: Why? While you're exploring the Hackett house as Lara, you find a note stating that the cages in the basement were made for the siblings. At the start of the game, Mr. Hackett tells Ryan that the duo had already taken off to go home. The house is clearly not far from the camp, so it begs the question of why they weren't in the cages designed to keep them away. An argument could be made that they were left out to help hunt Silas, but that doesn't make sense when they know that the counselors are still there. They had enough time to prepare a backup for Chris Hackett, but not his kids? Furthering the issue with this plot hole, the hunters use plain shots because they don't want to risk hurting Caleb and Kaylee... HOWEVER, if they were in the cages where they SHOULD have been, then the hunters would've used silver from the start... meaning that when Nick is attacked by Silas and they shoot him to get him off, that it would have been a silver shell. Silas would have died at the start, and the horrors of the night wouldn't have happened. That seems like a pretty glaring hole, without knowing why the Hackett kids weren't in the cages.

[@TheAwkwardGamer]

There were clues that hinted that Caleb and Kaylee were tired of hiding their curse (there was even a letter by Kaylee saying that she wanted to get out of the woods, lamenting that they couldn't because of what they were), and decided to run rampant so that they'd be spotted. They likely ran into the woods before they got home and so they had no idea that the counsellors were staying an extra night, which ended up as the catalyst for the horrors of the night. Also, Silas wasn't the one who bit Nick, that was Caleb. Silas can only ever bite two of the counsellors: Dylan and Kaitlyn; Dylan when they were using the radio and Kaitlyn at the junkyard.

[@Robalexe]

Nick is never attacked by Silas. Caleb is the one who infects Nick. Silas only appears at the radio hut and the junkyard before the final chapter.

[@vargsieber]

Not in every way, credit where credit is due, the graphics and motion capture are way ahead of until dawn, but in every other way your right.

[@Robalexe]

@@vargsieber That's to be expected. However, even then I'd say Until Dawn feels more realistic to me, cuz I think The Quarry has more wonky moments, so it's not as consistent.

[@vargsieber]

@@Robalexe I'm just talking about the visuals, but yeah, I know what you mean.

[@prcervi]

the quarry is a bit confusing to me for one simple fact, they've proven before they know how to set up and follow through on a plot in until dawn but the quarry just couldn't do it, come on, werewolf threatening summer camp counselors? that's a easy set up to run with and somehow they messed it up also why the hell do the werewolves look like they're cursed with mange?

[@Peachu_n_Goma_Home]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@NameName-kc6ul]

most of until dawn staff was laid off so the people who made ud and the quarry are different

[@prcervi]

@@NameName-kc6ul oh, that makes sense but also really sucks

[@lakerboy16]

Perhaps if they tried non fictions. It’s at a camp. Try some sort of homicidal maniac or counselors that go mad????

[@prcervi]

@lakerboy16 I believe you mean non-fantasy, since non-fiction means the setting and events have to be a thing that happened irl

[@lukakryptic]

Excellent video essay and analysis! I loved the wide array of sources you've used and the comparisons and contrasts between the two games. I definitely think the Quarry disappointed me, but it's hard to captivate the initial surprise and excitement of Until Dawn when it was a new concept at its release. Until Dawn felt like a love letter to horror... whereas the Quarry just felt like them trying to keep to a format that had proved successful before. It's always hard to live up to previous successes, as well as seeing what to change and evolve in game development and what to keep! I'm curious about your thoughts on the Dark Pictures Anthologies in regards to these criteria. Looking forward to more great videos from you and your channel!

[@TheHotCross]

"A love letter to horror" is actually a great way to describe how Until Dawn comes across! I would actually like to do a video on the Dark Pictures Anthology at some point too, I almost did it within this video but it would have been closer to 4 hours so opted against it! 😆

[@crematedheart576]

yeah the freezer choice made me so mad because i was trying so hard to keep everyone alive just to logically think that going into the freezer would be a bad idea only to get them killed -_-

[@xLadyRaine]

i got kaitlin stuck in the freezer and she died 😭

[@crematedheart576]

@@xLadyRaine oh no :o

[@andrewmassie]

We talking about the Hag of Hackett's Quarry?

[@TheHotCross]

the who of the what's it where now?

[@Buss620]

​@@TheHotCross You don't know about the Hag of Hackett's Quarry

[@MatthewPreston-el3cq]

​@@Buss620 Don't worry, it was only the HOG of Hackett's Quarry.

[@WasN3v3rY0urs]

@@MatthewPreston-el3cqThought you hated that phrase?

[@lanceareadbhar]

Until Dawn is definitely the better overall game in terms of story, characters, atmosphere, set pieces, pacing, quick time mechanics, and epilogue. All that said, The Quarry is also brilliant in terms of characters, writing, tone, animations, and graphics. Where The Quarry falls short to me in comparison are atmosphere with the movable camera leading to some game breaking immersion, lack of memorable set pieces, epilogue being way too generic with lack of character input, lack of depth in the story, and too easy quick time events where the only danger that was felt was whether I should perform certain quick time events. All this said, I loved The Quarry for what it was, but wished there was more and it is definitely beloe the masterpiece that is Until Dawn.

[@Robalexe]

I think they were afraid of making the QTEs too hard after the massive backlash of Man of Medan for its horrible QTEs.

[@sakurasensations4786]

Until Dawn just has a better hook and the characters are more interesting because they have traits you hate and traits you can root for. Like Mike starts off being just the sorta douchey guy trying to get into Jess’s pants so you think this guy’s just some kinda sleaze ball. But he evolves into a damn improvised warrior and basically the MVP of the whole operation. He shows he actually does care about Jess (which honestly surprised me) by literally risking his life and going to ridiculous lengths to find her when she’s taken by the Wendigo. This clearly shows that Mike, although he doesn’t initially present that way, is a pretty reliable person who deeply cares for others in his life. I don’t think we can assume he’s entirely different as a person, but the obvious moments of hardship, fear, and sometimes helplessness (even if Josh lives, he still gets carried away by Hannah and Mike can only watch) have clearly humbled him and made him much more of an admirable character that you really want to survive by the end. And frankly the quarry just couldn’t get me as interested in any of its characters the same way to the point that I would care what really happened next. If I watch videos of people playing this game, I can still watch a whole Until Dawn playthrough. The Quarry could hardly keep my full attention for more than the little prologue bit of the game. The Quarry has its charms but it doesn’t really compare to the execution of Until Dawn’s story and premise. Also it doesn’t help that I recognize some of the actors in The Quarry. I didn’t know any of the actors for Until Dawn, but Brenda Song immediately stick out to me and I thought the guy playing Dylan was Cole/Dylan Sprouse (lol my bad), and so seeing people I kind of already knew made the game’s character’s feel less like their own people and just more like actors filling the character’s roles. In a movie, you can sometimes get past this, but I think it’s more detrimental to a game if its characters don’t immerse you in themselves as individual people. Overall I think Until Dawn knew how to structure itself to make the characters more enjoyable and intriguing, make the plot progress in an interesting way that gave plenty of clues to the player across all perspectives, and made the plot of the game feel less avoidable and therefore makes the threat feel less stupid because a character didn’t just do something dumb that caused everything (this is something that they haven’t gotten right since Until Dawn because Man of Medan ALSO had the whole conflict triggered by the rich dude being an asshole to LITERAL PIRATES). Yes, I probably am a bit biased due to nostalgia for Until Dawn too, but for all of its faults, that game has many strong points that are not quite shared by the Quarry and I think makes it a better game regardless. UD leaned into a sort of camp horror movie-esque idea and they killed it. I can’t say the same for The Quarry.

[@Robalexe]

How can you include Dylan in the actors distraction part when you didn't actually know the actor who played him? Just because you confused him for a certain actor doesn't make it a legit criticism in any way. You don't know the actual actor, so it doesn't apply. To be honest, this is quite literally the definition of "it's a you problem".

[@benmccarthy1799]

1:25:18 the fireworks do actually come into play later. When you are playing as Emma and running from the werewolves it can be set off and prevent her from being infected.

[@jenniferbrennan2819]

I didn't take the fireworks and Emma didn't get infected either. You don't need them to save her

[@benmccarthy1799]

@jenniferbrennan2819 you do need them if you choose to run from thr hunters. If you stay still you will be fine

[@bambiwatsonart]

Thank you for this video, what a treat! It’s clear just how much work went into this, the quality and the research are amazing. (Also, after the LC series the word “strategy” will never be the same to me again 😭)

[@Guz-Guz]

I kept hearing the echo of "Strateeeegie" too 😄

[@robchuk4136]

As a big fan of choice-based games, Until Dawn's totems giving players a 'sneak preview' was like a revelation. Just like Max rewinding time in Life is Strange, there was something so valuable as a player, about getting more hints/information you need to make more informed decisions. I own both these titles but it's a clean sweep. (Maybe The Quarry has an advantage on soundtrack) Until Dawn's attention to detail makes it a richer experience. As does the way it blends several horror genres into one, making it more dynamic. And the way you get to pick up pieces of (really well thought out) backstory makes it low key one of the best investigative games out there, too. Great video. It would be interesting to see how other branching narrative adventure games would stack up, applying all these fundamentals. (Which is the best Dark Pictures game, Telltale, or aforementioned Life is Strange) We could even get into action rpgs like Mass Effect vs Cyberpunk. But what I'd really love is Heavy Rain vs. Detroit: Become Human.

[@Hoosje11]

Until Dawn triumphs over any other game for the mere inclusion of legend Emily ''Palm of my Hand'' Davis.

[@MrAjking808]

It’s a good game but so many of you are clearly blinded by nostalgia or watched some cringe KZbinr play it when you were 10

[@jjkilhij9531]

I expected this to be the usual comparison between story, characters, choices, etc. (which I have no problem with, love those videos), so to see you actually go into detail about the psychology and technical aspects behind these choice driven games really made this video stand out to me as phenomenal! I definitely think Until Dawn is clear of the Quarry in nearly every way, I unfortunately don't think Supermassive has quite fully reached the magic they had with Until Dawn again, though they still show a lot of potential.

[@mani_of_marco]

Very well thought out presentation. It really gave me a better understanding of just how involved the writing and programming is for a multi branched visual story. Until Dawn is definitely the winner in my book as well but I really appreciate you drawing attention to the point that Until Dawn was genre creating and everything coming after it would inevitably be compared to it. I know for a fact that, even though I love the game, it is a weighty reason for why The Quarry fell flat for me. If The Quarry had come first, I probably would have enjoyed it far more. That being said, Until Dawn is arguably the better game, as you have very lovingly expressed. So I would think that if game releases had been swapped, I would've liked Until Dawn even more because it would have out shined its predecessor. Thanks so much for the love and attention to detail! Well done!

[@TheHotCross]

I really appreciate the kind words! Thank you!

[@librarycarded]

really cool to get a gary lecture for free!! 😂 i do think both games have a lot of issues and i rly think that supermassive should've learned from the critiques they received from native americans about what they used as "monsters." i don't think they've ever responded to it. the quarry was pretty disappointing compared to until dawn, i agree with a lot of other commenters that it felt rushed. there wasn't as much payoff with the werewolf storyline and everything felt a bit forced, especially with the background of the "villains" being based on prejudice people faced. i feel like supermassive maybe needs to really change things up in a new game, reinvent their formula and go back to the really interactive-gameplay roots of games like until dawn. thanks for sharing your thoughts :D it's so cool to learn more about how games really work on the back end AND front!

[@TheHotCross]

I'm really glad you enjoyed the video and thanks for sharing your thoughts! 💛

[@mewmedic]

Really great work you've done here! I didn't play The Quarry but I watched it. If you have Brenda Song's character in the kitchen by herself and choose the refrigerator she does actually lock herself in and freeze to death like you expected. When I saw that option I thought the freezer meant to lure the werewolf in and trap it there. Good thing I wasn't the one playing LOL.

[@TheHotCross]

Omg so I was kinda right then! I think if you found a toy really early on an Abigail you can lure the werewolf in there but it's so weirdly uninformative! 😅

[@Robalexe]

Ashley is not a bad, shallow or fake person, she's just cowardly and easily panics in horrific situations, which Until Dawn constantly puts her through. People don't wanna acknowledge there are wrong and right choices in the game. Shooting Ashley right after pouring your heart out for her is one of the most obvious and objectively wrong choices possible, so you will be punished accordingly for your stupidity. You have to put yourself in the characters' shoes, and Chris clearly would never shoot Ashley if he had agency there, so that scenario would simply never happen. Sam can literally ditch and kill almost everyone in the lodge at the end if you choose to do so (which is another wrong choice), yet no one is ever mad at Sam for being able to do that in the game, while Ashley gets crucified for an inaction.

[@TheHotCross]

There's no such thing as a wrong choice in these kinds of games, every choice, every ending is designed to be chosen. As for Ashley, I think where she is easily framed as villainous is because she begs for agency, "let me do this" she begs Chris to shoot her, and if he obliges she appears to hold a grudge and leave him to perish when given a chance, which I think is hysterical 😂

[@Robalexe]

@@TheHotCross Ashley doesn't beg Chris to shoot her though, she begs him to give her the gun to make the decision herself. Basically, she's ok with killing herself for Chris, but not ok with Chris trying to kill her. And I believe that's very understandable and instinctual.

[@TheHotCross]

You're misremembering the game, I believe both her arms are secured so she can't take the gun, if Chris points the gun at himself she begs him to shoot her where he can then make his choice. But I don't mind, Ashley isn't a real character and judging her moral integrity or lack there of is for fun so 😁

[@Robalexe]

​@@TheHotCross Tbf I don't think Ashley really cared her arms were secured lol, the line "You chose to save me before, let me choose this time to save you" sounds to me like her wanting to be the one to make the decision and pull the trigger. Whether she was physically capable of it didn't matter to her or she didn't even think about it in the moment, because she was clearly not in the state of mind to take reality into account. She was probably imagining Chris would be capable of stretching and putting the gun in her hand so that it faced her own head. She'd be able to pull the trigger with her fingers if it made its way in her hand. How likely it was humanly possible for the gun to make its way in that position is different story lol. But, again, Ashley wasn't exactly thinking rationally. At the end of the day, these games have so many paths and choices that it's hard to not make up your mind about a character based on certain specific decision. Some people hate Ashley for the Chris shoots Ashley path where Chris dies cuz of Ashley, other people love Ashley for the Chris shoots himself/nobody path where the two of them kiss and finally get together (if they don't die by the end). It's a similar situation with Nick actually. For a character as underwritten, underused and underdeveloped as him, people sure have strong feelings about him lol. Especially due to the different dialogue choices when the werewolf curse is starting to change him or take control of him (but also a few scenarios before the bite). Watch Ratat's video on Analysing The Quarry, his take on Nick is the most extreme I've heard, and I don't agree with him at all, but I can see where he's coming from. Who would've thought Nick was a character with so much underneath the surface, layers and undertones lol.

[@Robalexe]

@@TheHotCross Sorry for coming back after 2 months, but the Until Dawn remake now makes the Ashley discourse even more interesting. Not to spoil in case you don't know yet. Hopefully you'll do a video on the remake! I will add though that in my previous arguments I seemingly missed the detail that Chris says "Ashley, I won't let you die" a mere minute before you're given the option to shoot yourself, Ashley or no one (in both versions of the game). So, technically, both Chris and Ashley go back on their words in some way if Chris decides to shoot Ashley. They basically ride or die together in a sense. And it makes Chris shooting her even more out of character. I think the OG devs even admitted somewhere that what they did with this branch was a mistake in hindsight. Maybe part of why the remake tweaked it (they couldn't just get rid of it completely at this point), since the new devs are former Supermassive employees.

[@jenniferbrennan2819]

Now this is a video essay. Well researched and presented and a proper analysis of each game, not just a plot summary. So refreshing ! Subscribed

[@TheHotCross]

Thank you for the kind words, I'm glad you enjoyed the video!

[@soha7617]

For me, the characters of Until Dawn (and their actors) have such amazing chemistry. The Quarry's cast was great but there was something special about the UD team. Also, I wish the werewolves looked more...werewolfy? They looked a bit too similar to the UD Wendigos in my opinion.

[@BlytheGaming]

Given they had to shut down recording with the actors of The Quarry due to covid, a lot of scenes, dialogue etc was sadly left out. Until Dawn is ny preference for sure but I still also really enjoy The Quarry.

[@butterflyeffect6791]

How dose this not have more likes? I like how you explain and analysed the two games.

[@alyssasowell774]

The editing of the clip at the very end of the video was absolutely golden. One of my favorite lines of the game edited so perfectly had me rolling... like Ashley's head!

[@TheHotCross]

Thanks! I really appreciate you watching the whole thing too! It's not the shortest of videos so! 😂

[@ann-marie7535]

Another great video once again! The thing I love most about your videos is you take your time to do research about the games! In my opinion i think the quarry looks more rushed compared to until dawn. Much love gary 💛🧡

[@glb1993]

Until dawn is definitely better in my opinion, but i will say i really enjoyed the quarry and the style of the werewolves in the story and lore. The way they look and transform was so cool to me lol, it felt very different to what you'd expect in a werewolves appearance.

[@liaarizona]

Wonderful video ✨ very interesting and I loved all the different sources being used. I agree with how Until Dawn just felt so much more immersive. I enjoyed that playing it more times I discovered things I had missed and some of the plot. Or how different it felt to play every character. I still enjoyed the Quarry, but agree with how rushed or undeveloped some of the plot/characters felt. I hope to see more videos of you soon Gary! 💕 I love this type of nerdy game talk haha

[@kristiansmith7737]

When I orignally watch GTLive's play through of Until Dawn, I never bought the idea that there were ghost in the game due to seeing the Windgos pov

[@ecovrse]

i dream about a version of the quarry where covid didn’t massively disrupt production 🥲

[@steveoconnivo9666]

Im seeing a lot of hate on the Quarry. I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I thought The Quarry was great. Sure some of the dialogue is a little goofy and some parts seem a little rushed, but a decent amount of that has to do with the covid situation. I'm not saying it's better than Until Dawn. But it's absolutely worth playing through if you enjoy this style of game.

[@TheHotCross]

I agree, I by no means think the Quarry is a bad game, but I can understand why people see it's issues so bluntly because it is understandably compared so strictly to Until Dawn!

[@TamNguyen-hm2lj]

The Quarry's writing, especially the ending was really affected by the Covid huh. And I feel like an interview segment like Until Dawn would have helped it a lot with closure since the ending is really... eh?

[@ayria_94]

I've got nothing more to add than Guz-Guz. The video is so well made and all on your own Gary. Good job! To me The Quarry always felt less finished and polished, kinda rushed and Until Dawn was far better. Now I also know why.

[@Robalexe]

I love Until Dawn more than The Quarry, but I really do not get why people say the decisions in Until Dawn matter more. The relationship status with others obviously changes based on your choices, but there are literally zero decisions that affect the game itself in the whole first half of the game besides being too slow when trying to save Jess and thus getting her killed. You just have to look at the amount of possible deaths, branches, outcomes and endings to see that very clearly there are a lot more decisions that matter and impact the game in The Quarry. Even the most innocuous find from the first chapter can change something in the final chapter (ie: Finding Emma's bracelet as Jacob, which can save Emma's life much later on).

[@lakerboy16]

I’m curious, if the quarry came first would opinions still be the same…

[@lisacalvo2430]

im two months late but honestly i do think it would have been the same? more characters development in until dawn and horror aspects are better too.. i really wished the quarry was better and huge love to the devs for doing so well with covid but yeah

[@iamrococoo]

This was a greattt video.I was invested the entire way through. Nice research too!

[@Mitzchievous]

Even after all this time, The Quarry is a guilty pleasure for me. It has loads of missed potential and even as a character centered narrative it drops each character’s arcs as it goes along. The lackluster Evidence mechanic and one per-use Tarot Cards baffle me. So many scenes that give character depth are secret optional scenes under specific circumstances. I got the most upset over Abi’s death as we are only given ONE line right before she dies by Kaitlyn vaguely explaining that Nick would be fine if she shoots him. Didn’t have time to process that before the choice came on how to keep both alive. On paper Laura/Ryan & Kaitlyn/Dylan’s scenes in the finale are cool. Using clues and decisions throughout to unlock a grand bookend against the antagonist is really cool! And the lodge showdown having multiple failsafes if you keep Emma/Abi alive or the toy is great as a finale but it prolly is too open ended. Would love to see these ideas fleshed out in a future title! Maybe a premonition could be used to explain you could accidentally end in a lose-lose scenario would make it fair? I honestly like the characters in The Quarry more but they don’t have an arc. Which is a shame as they have some good hooks to develop! But Until Dawn is way better executed in its plot there’s no denying it.

[@vksemiramis]

This video felt like a masterclass in game design and narrative techniques! Congratulations on such a well-thought-out and written analysis of those 2 games. Personally, I liked both games, and the Quarry felt like the best effort to recapture that 2015 magic. In any case, I will keep an eye out for your next videos!

[@TheHotCross]

Thank you so much, I'm planning to get the ball rolling on the next video going soon! 😁

[@chevalfille12]

This is a great video essay!

[@m3tallee]

I loved until dawn. I really almost loved the quarry too. I find the dialogue in the quarry much less believable and more cringey, the qtes are forever too easy, and the lack of some sort of conclusion cheeses me. Also it’s just not as scary. I like the design of the monsters in tq but the wendigos man…I would miss qtes because of how hard my heart was racing and my hands were shaking. That said I do really enjoy how much more the characters interact in the quarry (though it has little effect on the game) I wish the characters of until dawn got to hang out more and regroup later in the night (looking at Matt and Jess) .

[@lunairenova3339]

I like the concept that the werewolves are not a stereotype type of werewolf. It makes it more interesting to me IMO.

[@bamban_garcia5562]

The Quarry was Until Dawn 2.0 until Supermassive Games took the demo prototype Sony Interactive Entertainment funded to pimp out to other publishers

[@Peachu_n_Goma_Home]

Now i know why quarry is at the 6 something score.🥲

[@bamban_garcia5562]

@@Peachu_n_Goma_Home Microsoft tried the same stealing tactic when Brainfluff (Media Molecule) showcased a Sony funded Craftworld (Little Big Planet) prototype demo all the way back to the early PlayStation 3 era Doubt the partnership will ever recover, at least we have the people that funded SG now with Ballistic Moon

[@dectectivegoose]

Something that also makes until dawn better in my opinion is that the areas feel either safe or scary based off the characters general knowledge of the area and the locations are decorated(?) in accordance to that which makes the player have those same feelings

[@XavierShade]

Great analysis! You highlighted every gripe I had and everything that made Until Dawn a fun game/viewing experience. As much as I simp for Until Dawn, both games are 1000x better than all of the dark pictures games in my opinion.

[@TheHotCross]

I like House of Ashes but yeah, the Devil in Me in particular, yikes! 😅

[@Robalexe]

I literally can't even watch Man of Medan playthroughs because the mo-capping and acting is so fucking rough. People complaining about The Quarry for that don't know what bad mo-cap and acting really is.

[@SSSROCK47]

I recently saw Until Dawn and The Quarry gameplay video. and i like Until Dawn more

[@zweidouble8038]

Who are you to tell me not to eat people? >:(

[@RosesInHerShoes]

Great video! I love how you broke things down. When I played The Quarry, I felt it was lacking compared to Untill dawn, but couldn't really explain why- You put those thoughts into words. I would note, the actor for jacob said that from what he noticed about 20% of the game's story was cut due to issues during covid, which makes sense to me because of the rushed ending. I personally believe the Werewolves were going to be a red herring and the actual threat would be Eliza/the nix (in the podcast made to advertise the game the Nix were brought up as creatures that look like old women and live near water with a gift of prophecy. If that wasn't enough of a hint the game first takes place on midsummer's day,

[@TheHotCross]

Oh that's really interesting, if that is the case then it's a major shame it was cut out. That would have been an amazing twist! Thanks for the comment as well and I'm glad you enjoyed the video! 💛

[@destinyhntr]

That sounds way more interesting.

[@Unknown-jd1iu]

IDK, I feel like Until Dawn raised a bar and set a standard especially when it came out. The Quarry was ok-ish felt like a Dark Picture game ngl, Supermassive has an issue of separate teams working on separate games, so why not just work all together and bring something good.

[@bamban_garcia5562]

Because Supermassive Games was acquired by Nordisk Films aa such must take several projects at once to avoid their 300+ development team getting shuttered

[@carpetlayenful]

Some time and research appeared to go into this video. As most tellings go I noticed your telling of the 2 stories was very "me" centric. That is fair as that is what makes them engaging and entertaining. Yet there are a few things that were not mentioned. There are others, but keeping with the central idea. These are the ones that I thought were mot worth mentioning. One thing was that copyright changed the making of the Quarry. There are a few pieces of lore, they chose to leave in the game. Two, the werewolf mythology in the game the adopted purposeful. As the mythology is all over the place and was paired with rumors or beliefs about Hirsutism. Three, the Quarry, by the end, wind up being a telling of a story or a interactive movie. This is based on the responses of the writers and creators because of the copyright restrictions. Lastly alot of things are missed in background with both. Mainly the cause is people's engagement with what is happening. Which causes a lot if not most to lose focus on the environmental and background happenings. Not to mention little change is rarely noticed, but major or supermassive always is.

[@SndjjwwejWdbbwene]

Yes until dawn is better. Quarry is good but it didn’t feel like a satisfying ending and I had everyone live. Also the only memorable character was Dylan and Chris. Until dawn had iconic characters

[@RationalOrc]

I think the biggest difference between the two games are character growth. Most of the Until Dawn character introduction makes them look like aholes that deserve what's coming to them but then start to show more and more grit and determination which suddenly has you rooting for them when they rise to the occasion. The Quarry characters by contrast seem to almost fall apart under pressure becoming more petty and cynical when the chips are down. Ryan in particular constantly indulges condescending snark on people that are clearly terrified. Ungh Fuck Ryan.

[@PEWPlays]

The Quarry werewolf is closest to Teen Wolf werewolves looks-wise. Also, the siblings Werewolves were caged during the missing Full moon between Summer camp events. The area where they caged Jacob.

[@castiel940]

Hey man, this was a great video! Congratulations

[@isa-r3j]

38:09 I deliberately avoided Tarot cards when playing so I wouldn’t have to sit through as much of the boring fortune teller scene 😅

[@dovasvariakojis6934]

I wonder how The Casting of Frank Stone will measure up to these two.

[@Skittlestherapper-l1w]

It didn’t even come close to the man of medan

[@abigailroseflynn]

i played the quarry before until dawn and it was my first “horror” game (i say “horror” because it wasn’t that scary even for me) and i loved it…but until dawn is goated for all the reasons mentioned. i also loved the performances, especially by rami malek - though brenda song’s performance was also incredible

[@soha7617]

Great video, I wish you added the scene of Emily slapping Ashley for an eighth time though.

[@prodtetch]

The Quarry was an excellent game, but Until Dawn was so unique at the time, and captured a feeling that really resonated with me and many others. There's definitely an element of nostalgia, which isn't to say the game isn't as 'good' as we remember. Far from it. There are multiple interweaving plotlines that are interesting. The Quarry has this too, and it was also very interesting, but at times, it feels like your choices should have more weight.

[@AdranTanzar43]

Great video! As a wannabe game designer, I find your content incredibly interesting and informative

[@TheHotCross]

That makes me really happy to hear! I'm glad you find the videos useful!

[@happyspaceinvader508]

In Until Dawn, the “walk faster” button switches to a different walking animation where the character is taking longer strides. In The Quarry, it simple speeds up the single walking animation, making the character look like they’re in a Charlie Chaplin film. The water in the lake… looks like black oil. The mouth animations… particularly Emma. More horrific to look at than the wendigowolves. Werewolves that don’t look in the least bit dog-like. For me, these were all bigger problems than the writing/characters/plot/gameplay.

[@vargsieber]

The problems with the quarry are the endings (no epilogue, no scene where the survivors meet up again) and the on the nose foreshadowing, they also had the opportunity to put a scary old carnival into the game, but didn't (could've been similar in size to the asylum in until dawn or even bigger) and you don't see much of the actual quarry like you did with the mines in until dawn, the whole area in the game just feels smaller in comparison. Would've been also great to have the hackets being a cult that actually had a strong reason to burn down the carnival on purpose, maybe or maybe something similar to the house of 1000 corpses. This game had so much potential, but didn't really deliver, it's a game you play once or twice on gamepass, but that's it, after an "everyone survives and you killed the werewolf kid" ending and the "everyone dies" ending there's not much more to see while until dawn has so much replay value, but that's supermassive for you, their games have either great replay value (Until Dawn, house of ashes, to an extent men of medan) or they don't (quarry, little hope) (didn't play devil in me yet). Oh and by the way, the "werewolves look like cheap wendigos" thing applies more or less to all monsters in supermassive games, well at least the movement is always relatively similar (wendigo, things that look like wendigo in mom, stabbed and hanged wendigo in lh, wendigo with wings in hoa but at least they fly, dog faced wendigo in quarry)

[@83Dormouse]

Great video as always! My thoughts on The Quarry: I wonder if they rushed the reveal because it just seems that people don't have the patience anymore to wait for it. I'm sure I remember reading something that they had so much trouble with the fur that they had to remove it, hence why they're weird bald werewolves. Until Dawn is great but I think it falls under the Undertale curse of having rabid fans who think anything else is rubbish.

[@Cookie4gnf]

I’m gonna say, one of the reasons I couldn’t even begin to love The Quarry aa much as I love Until Dawn is because of the characters. They all seemed so bland, I played it few months ago and I remember one name. In Until Dawn, I liked some of them a lot, like Sam, and even the ones who were just straight up terrible people are interesting to watch, like Jess So I couldn’t even get invested in The Quarry when I was just annoyed with the characters the whole time, not interested enough to listen to them speak or see their relationships develop

[@melanied917]

I know nothing about the quarry but wanted to like and comment anyway to show my support 😘 (pretending this is the Yun Jin kiss emote on twitch 😂)

[@livelaughlevina2044]

my character ranking! UNTIL DAWN- 10. hannah washington 9. josh washington (I love him but hes so broken it just I cant put him higher.) 8. beth washington 7. matthew taylor 6. jessica riley 5. ashley brown 4. christopher hartley 3. mike munroe 2. samantha giddings 1. emily davis now THE QUARRY- 9. nicholas furcillo 8. abigail blyg 7. emma mountebank 6. jacob custos 5. max brinly 4. ryan erzahler 3. dylan lenivy 2. kaitlyn ka 1. laura kearny

[@DaveAmirite]

if you want something uncanny the peanut butter puff dance animations is somethin'

[@brianachim2670]

Both are great, Until Dawn is scarier and The Quarry is more comedic.

[@Peachu_n_Goma_Home]

Imagine talking to professor lupin next day in the classroom after he exploded into a werewolf last night his fluids splashed all on you. 😂😂😂😂

[@CeruleanScribbles]

I remember when The Quarry came out & I was excited to watch youtubers sink their teeth into it after Until Dawn. Before even looking to see what the community was saying about it, I felt there was a noticeable drop in quality and just stopped watching playthroughs altogether. I know games will feel different when experiencing them for yourself, but there really wasn't anything that left me intrigued.

[@michaeldoingstuff7846]

The complete difference between the quarry and until dawn is because Until Dawn had an easier development cycle not to mention Until Dawn had backing from Sony whilst the Quarry was independent because Supermassive broke off the relationship with Sony(who owns Until Dawn Rights). The actor for Jacob said around 30% was cut from the quarry not to mention they had to develop with covid and a more rushed development cycle.

[@bamban_garcia5562]

Mate watched Matt McMuscles "wha' happun' video regarding Until Dawn, its development was anything but easier

[@preciousdavies1609]

They could've made the werewolf transformation more similar to Lupin in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban

[@StudMacher78]

Am I the only one who actually prefers until dawn? The quarry literally just felt like a cheap and cheesy knock off of it

[@batata4427]

Most of the comments are talking about how they prefer until dawn. What are you on

[@prebenpoulsen6117]

While it might not be the same, I think they also went for different tones of horror movies. Until Dawn seems much more like a horror/thriller while The Quarry feels much more like a slasher film. I think this could also lead to why the mystery and such is not as deep as Until Dawn, as it's not trying to focus on that.

[@uber_decadent]

I liked that The Quarry has a good built-in humor, although mostly from the Dylan. Until Dawn was funny only because of the stupidity of some characters)

[@LonelyWolfWestern]

I think the point you made using some characters dying in The Quarry as backup was moot, just because in your playthrough many died doesn’t mean it’s necessarily unfair. Another person could have the opposite experience. It’s both subjective and reflects the player

[@TheHotCross]

I'm mostly focused on the information given to the player in these instances though. I felt like my decisions were less information based in the Quarry and thus, it harmed my user experience. Which led to a greater feeling of frustration when a character did die as a result. The freezer example springs to mind again but I understand where you're coming from too!

[@daphne8406]

For me it was just that Until Dawn was all in all the more meorable game 🤔

[@akaiyoru2681]

When I look at the games one of the differences that stands out to me is that each time the character is threatened by something and is in the "Don't move" section you don't have a clear visual on what you're hiding from but plenty of sound cues. Screeches or speech "Here kitty, kitty. Here pussy, pussy", standing in such a position where you feel like he almost knows where you are

[@-bluejay211]

Very well made. Big fan of Until Dawn can’t wait to play it again!

[@catsuneniku]

Quarry felt really shallow at times. Some setpieces were amazing, whereas a lot of the time the game felt like it was rushing to a conclusion that I don't think was very good

[@bastienmillecam3183]

Until Dawn was very cheesy but it walked that blurred line between self-referencial and honest schlock. It also plays a couple of times with expectations and some characters end up way more likeable that they appear at first. The Quarry just felt completely stilted. Some characters go through life changing events, like loosing a hand, and just go "ah ok". The cinematography and transition are absolutely terrible. I can't believe it's the same studio

[@mooseduke1348]

Mikes development from a dickwad to a selfless badass was peak

[@tigerfalco]

I am finding it interesting that people who like Emily tend to not like Ashley. I thought everyone hated Emily and i cant blame them, and i thought most liked Ashley. Apparently whichever character you like, you tend to perceive the others actions more negatively. To me Emily is a mega-bitch and tbh shes probably the only character id be ok with dying. Ashley is probably favorite tied with Chris. She the most realistic character out of the group, her fear making her panic and make poor decisions. Though most of her panic is understanding. If this was a zombie game, i would not call Ashley selfish for telling Emily to leave if she was bitten. I wouldnt call her telling Josh to shoot her instead, only to be upset about it later as poor writing. She hesistates to open the door for Josh, she doesnt maliciously choose to let him die. Meanwhile Emily....well, shes the only one ive seen lay her hands on someone in the group and push them when trying to escape. She also at the end of the game instead of answering the questions and explaining what happened with the Wendigo's, is venting about what her friends did to her. Shes controlling, high-maintenance, a little egotistical, etc... shes just a mega bitch. Dependable, survivable, determined, sure... But doesnt really separate her from say Mike, Sam or even Chris who all exhibit the same qualities. Her survival in the mines was very impressive, but that doesnt make me forgive her terrible attitude, and behavior towards her "friends".

[@TheHotCross]

I think that's a fair outlook to have as well, I admittedly kind of love how horrible Emily is 😂, she's a great character! I think it's a testament to the character design that people enjoy picking and choosing favourites and least favourites. But you're totally right, it's interesting how your bias can affect how you perceive things, to me Ashley seems cruel and as self serving as Emily but hides it more whereas I like Emily for being so transparent with her actions 😂

[@tigerfalco]

@@TheHotCross Yeah ive been seeing that a lot in comments on this video and other ones about the game. Its funny cuz everyone seems to think Ashley is insidious and malicious when honestly shes just a coward 😂. People going missing, supposed murderer, weird stuff happening around the house, things moving around weird...I'd look at someone crazy if they wanted to go look in the basement too 😂 I think her only sin is letting the fear control as much as it does. They can't all be Sam (who's kind of a Mary sue in my opinion).

[@bilis2866]

@@tigerfalco also Ashley gets the most beat up and played by josh's game, which understandably would fck someone up. i liked both characters tbh

[@Robalexe]

​@@TheHotCross Ashley is in no way as cruel or as self serving as Emily. People don't wanna acknowledge there are wrong and right choices in the game. Shooting Ashley right after pouring your heart out for her is one of the most obvious and objectively wrong choices possible, so you will be punished accordingly. Sam can literally ditch and kill almost everyone in the lodge at the end if you choose to do so (which is another wrong choice), yet no one is ever mad at Sam for being able to do that in the game, while Ashley gets crucified for an inaction.

[@ChunkyTheCat]

I really like their games and I finished the Quarry and little hope because I'm waiting until dawn to launch for the pc because I don't own a PlayStation

[@thatoneguyyouknow731]

The multiplayer annoyed me and wanted to play with my brother online, and not only could he not make choices, but he also couldn't get any achievements.

[@AmellsGrace]

I can't help it. I love me a huge himbo. Its a worse game but the himbometer is way higher

[@MetalFan9490]

Personally I loved The Quarry WAY more. The characters were mega cringe but that was perfect, not one person in these comments can tell me people don’t act insanely cringe and socially awkward nowadays; while it is a bit over the top it’s also just fun, the characters feel like game or movie characters as they should. Yes The Quarry does have more of the “illusion of choice” but I don’t mind it because it’s *supposed* to be like an interactive movie… you are responsible for who is killed yes but it’s still the same movie, not a different movie depending on what choices you make. The monsters though… the Wendigo should be able to just annihilate everything and everyone it sees because it’s basically in god mode but it doesn’t, making a monster too strong and just incompetent makes it way less scary imo. It’s so strong to the point that it’s stupid, the characters have inhuman reaction times, and it either decides not to catch up to them or disappears just because. I also just like the design in The Quarry better though it might’ve been better with hair, the Wendigo just looks like zombie Gollum 😂 I’ll give it to Until Dawn I enjoyed the QTEs more, but that’s about it. The biggest thing; I don’t even think the games should be compared. Until Dawn is like a “horror-survival GAME” with a gritty psychological horror mood and The Quarry is more of an “interactive movie” with a cheesy slasher mood and the games are apples and oranges imo.

[@poppylarity]

I feel like they should have kept the native Americans monster thing and went with skin Walker's would have made it all more interesting cause who doesn't know about a werewolf I didn't know what a windigo (spelt wrong) well I did but not much until dawn also went for a more realistic look for them how they were described before the deer head. I also feel like they should have made the hillbillies a little town instead of related or related but like one eye 3 finger type related also the outfits are so winter like in the summer.

[@rigbo6435]

You ate

[@ItsYaBoiV]

Until Dawn and The Quarry are even for me in the fact that the stories were interesting and the characters were the right kind of B-movie protagonists that you root for. I also believe that Mike was the best character in Until Dawn because the dude has a huge character arc from typical douche jock to full-on action hero by the end.

[@Skittlestherapper-l1w]

People don’t like the quarry because they play it at face value, did you know you could get abi infected at the start of the game? Or that if Ryan dies and Travis dies when Laura’s in the house, then she’ll visit the island were max still is, it isn’t that the game is linear, you’re just afraid to lose and the game give you the worst or best ending on a silver platter

[@CosmosSolarSystem]

Thing is, nothing is going to top Until Dawn sadly. I felt everything afterwards is very forgettable and while I love to go back and rewatch UD I can barely remember the names of the companies attempts to recapture its greatness.

[@shaankelly1302]

Until Dawn and The Quarry are obvs the best 2 of supermassive's output. They were given a budget and it shows. However, choices dont really matter in until dawn. There are a few major ones but most of the butterfly effects just alters the dialouge in between major story beats. And while that is cool and i like exploring them in terms of the story itself not many of them matter in the end. The quarry legit has way more choices that matter but a trade off is the lack of difficulty. If your only gamplay is walking around and qtes at least make it so the difficulty can be altered. Im very good a QTEs and would have to fail things on purpose if i wanted to see other options. The Quarry is def the better of the 2 imo. Also shout out to House of Ashes, the only good Dark Picture game. Tons of paths and choices and qtes are difficult. The charcters are quite good too. But yes imo Quarry is the better of the two. Also you mentioned going left with Emily. Going right also leads you to the elevator. So again. Just an example of how Until Dawn doesnt have many choice that truly matter. Sounds like im shitting on Until Dawn a little but just the idea the choics matter in that game I feel is very exaggerated. Its still an excellent game regardless

[@Robalexe]

I love Until Dawn more than The Quarry, but I really do not get why people say the decisions in Until Dawn matter more. The relationship status with others obviously changes based on your choices, but there are literally zero decisions that affect the game itself in the whole first half of the game besides being too slow when trying to save Jess and thus getting her killed. You just have to look at the amount of possible deaths, branches, outcomes and endings to see that very clearly there are a lot more decisions that matter and impact the game in The Quarry. Even the most innocuous find from the first chapter can change something in the final chapter (ie: Finding Emma's bracelet as Jacob, which can save Emma's life much later on).

[@ladypool1404]

Untill Dawn has better ambiance and music than the Quarry. Also, the Wendigo is a great monster; very quick and terrifying; i love his design 🥰 I adore Sam and Mike; very likable characters. Chris is a bit funny too, he's a nice guy! Emily and Matt are annoying; always bickering with each other. Jessica just flirts with Mike and does nothing else. She's not very interresting or likable. At least, not everyone is annoying unlike in Quarry. Aby and the vlog girl are boring, the guys too, Jacob always jokes. I hate them all! The '' werewolves '' in Quarry are just Wendigo with different skin color. Wow, that's so creative 🙄They couldn't looked like the ones in Big wolf on campus or Teen wolf. This is a lazy design!

[@ShockerTopper]

Until Dawn was a masterpiece, especially when it was created. The facial scans look better than PS5 or X-Box Series 1 (RIP), it's pathetic that creators just relied on the basics once they could easily do things with the better hardware. It's like how Silent Hill 2-4 looks amazing on the PS2. Companies and the developers specifically actually really cared back in the day. When video games were made, they were made to make a good game with real care and effort. The Quarry looks good, but not SUBSTANTIALLY better than a game that came out 7 years earlier on the last gen console. The story was really convoluted to me and I just thought the story wasn't that good, there was just too much dumb stuff. I liked Until Dawn because it didn't take itself too seriously and it had likable characters (except for Josh and Emily). They're supposedly making a sequel to Until Dawn finally huh? They should have done that in the first place instead of doing the Quarry.

[@kirstenrox234]

Your take on Emma is a lil sexist. She doesn’t have to like Jacob. She told him how it was and he is the one being pushy. Plus she DOES show growth cause if Abigail dies Emma has red and watery eyes throughout the rest of the game

[@TheHotCross]

I don't see how the character's gender has anything to do with how her character comes across, you could reverse the roles and my issue would be the same. Weird comment 😅

[@kirstenrox234]

@@TheHotCross “she continues to lead him on” no she doesn’t. She makes it clear over and over and over again that she doesn’t want something serious. There’s literally a scene where she goes into depth on why she shouldn’t be guilt tripped into changing her views. She mourns her friends death, and is the ONLY character to actually mourn, and even forgives Jacob when he reveals the truth to her. So yes she does evolve as the game goes by. Jacob literally is the reason they are all trapped and why deaths happen.

[@TheHotCross]

Agree to disagree then, I see the swimming in the lake scene as 'leading a clearly emotionally invested person on further', but that's fine, we can disagree on that. And sure, Emma has some emotional depth, I didn't think she didn't have any, a character having the capability to mourn the death of a friend is hardly character development but sure. And I don't see how any of this was remotely sexist. But thanks for the comments!

[@steventomasi5557]

I'd argue the main reason why Until Dawn is so high while the Quarry is low according to players is because Until Dawn was revolutionary when it came out leading to arguably an unreasonably high bar for a sequel or spin off to meet and the Quarry fell well short of that bar even if its also a pretty good game.

[@briannguyen6248]

Wait you really dislike Ashley lol

[@TheHotCross]

She is the most evil character in video game history! 😂

[@kennncheese435]

Today I learned that there are people who LIKE Ashley 😂

[@Shadowfightingr]

​@@TheHotCross Agreed

[@Robalexe]

​​​@@kennncheese435 There are many fans of Ashley. Because there are many people who don't let an objectively bad and stupid choice color their opinion of a character. Shooting Ashley right after you pour your heart out for her is one of the most obviously wrong decisions you can make in the game, and so you are punished accordingly. Plus, if Chris had agency in his decision in that moment, he would never choose to shoot Ashley, so that entire scenario wouldn't exist to begin with in-canon. It's just like Sam being able to ditch and kill almost everyone in the lodge at the end - just because the game allows her to doesn't mean that's what her character would actually do herself. Same with Chris shooting Ashley and Ashley not letting Chris in.

[@nickgavis0305]

I always found the quarry just really boring for the most part, at least the first 2/3rds of the story. Every time I made a decision it would freeze and glitch out right after for a couple seconds as well. Even when I tried playing it again a couple years later it still did it, i haven’t played it on ps5 yet because I didn’t wanna put myself through that boring ass game again