Unused Doubt Confidant Mechanic - Persona 5

[@danieru5470]

Oh wow, I was just thinking about this and suddenly I see your video pop-up! This is definitely an interesting mechanic, though I do think they made the right call to scrap it from the game (though if finished, it would've made an interesting feature to have on Merciless or maybe a togglable option for NG+). Before discovering this in P5, I remember getting Reversed on my Chihiro social link in P3 and being confused as to what this exactly meant haha, and then trying to reconcile the relationship only for it to break. For a first-time playthrough it was certainly frustrating to deal with (though I suppose that was more to do with the fact that you can't level up other girls too much). Either way, with the amount of things you can do in P5 I would say it was for the best. Thanks for the credit and also for uploading all these unused events, they are definitely interesting!

[@FazPersona]

I’m really glad you like my videos, thank you very much and thank you for finding these events ! I still remember the first time i got reversed S-link’d in Golden with Ai, man i was confused lol. But yeah, this would’ve been an really interesting feature for NG+ or just main game !

[@IceBlueLugia]

To break social links in P3 you seriously have to be trying to mess it up as much as possible. Like say the rudest possible option when trying to reconcile.

[@danieru5470]

@@IceBlueLugia I see what you mean. What I meant was that in my experience, I reconciled the relationship but after spending time with other links it eventually broke.

[@whodatninja439]

it would make it harder, which the game needs

[@athrunmoza8996]

​@@whodatninja439 for you yes it seem the game needs. But for others. The game has shit tons of stuff to do, making it harder? No. It only gonna make it more hassle to deal with. I have a friend who ran a completely blind run. Guess what? He couldnt max all of them . Leaving 4 of them still around rank 7 to 9.

[@Gestrid]

1:04 Takemi: "This question will affect Takemi's trust in me. I have to answer it correctly...!"

[@lovinani7]

Takemi: why u skip class? Protag: i'm gay Takemi: press x to doubt

[@CursedMoistMan690]

I can imagine some of these reverse social links could result in a game over like reporting joker to the cops

[@andys2801]

“Alright!” *after failing to get a social link*

[@elretardo111]

The Game: Your Death Confidant is in a state of Doubt. You will not receive its benefits until you clear you name Joker: Alright!

[@Aenglaan]

I think hard difficulties should have these features. Right now, hard mode only applies to dungeons, really, so this could throw veterans for a spin.

[@jellyAn6930]

Ditto. Merciless difficulty isn't as merciless as it lets on. It's easy for the tactician, who exploits enemy weaknesses and technical damage stuff...like 99% of people do already. Brute force won't help, and even some of the severe/collosal damage skills hit like a wet napkin even in late game. But as far as the other half of the game, aka the most important part of the entire game, nothing changes I imagined that Merciless would have changed things up, like aside from bringing back the Doubt/Broken mechanic, I thought they'd rework some perks (Insta-kill for example) and make it so that perks are harder to acquire (grouped up into pairs so it's not like they give you a new perk every visit like some confidants do.), the more niche ways to level up your social stats now have a significant effect on you, encouraging you to actually do the crosswords or the trivia that pops up sometimes on the TV, or drinking smoothies which comes at the expense of the other, more well known methods of leveling up social stats to be slightly less effective, movies have a significant effect like double the exp, but no further exp is gained unless you read that one book about cinema, saying bad choices will now lower the points you have to rank a confidant up, and whatnot. I know most of those things affect the dating sim part of Persona, but let's be real, it's the most important part of Persona. Yet aside from fueling and funding your metaverse escapades, it really doesn't get affected by difficulty. I know those may be overkill, but like, Merciless = False advertising. It ain't nearly as bad as it sounds. Was disappointed that the only interesting fights were bosses and mementos requests, and they ended in 3 turns or your money back. Like why can't the weakness exploit mechanic be Makoto's perk instead of whatever Shadow Calculus is!? Ryuji's Insta-Kill to just a boost to Insta-kill skills/ Physical attacks being an Insta-kill? Or enemy Hold Ups (wherein an enemy gets a hold of one of the team mates) can also capture Joker, subjecting him to choose the right member of the team to negotiate the shadow to let him go, otherwise he dies. Feel like if the difficulty wants to be tactical, it better put EVERY perk to good use. No one really uses the negotiation perks in my experience

[@ahuman6901]

While it’s kinda neat, I’m glad it was cut. It’s difficult enough as is to keep up with everyone.

[@yurikuki]

Same here. Didn't really like the reverse arcana that happens in P3 and P4 esp P3 since it was such a hassle to switch it back to normal.

[@mortiphasm6816]

@@yurikuki I agree, but it was mainly a problem in P3's original version. P4's Reverses happened when you made obviously bad choices, such as 1)telling Ai that she was "downright cruel", 2)Refusing to help Ai win over Kou and 3)Refusing to help Naoto with the Phantom Thief case.

[@coffeethief7550]

@@mortiphasm6816 Exactly As long as it's not easy to piss everyone off I would actually like if this feature came back in P6

[@notomegayt4414]

5:10 so it's not longer a hanged man

[@ferael0013]

It's just Man

[@metis7534]

6:32 *insert doubt* *joker: ALL RIGHT!*

[@Sum_equals_1]

5:18 - Said the Weapon Dealer

[@brassman95]

I wish they kept it for Shinya, Takemi, and Iwai since it makes sense with how you made deals with those characters, as well as their personalities. Maybe as a trade off, the doubt events would occur instead of a hangout that doesn't progress to the next confidant rank, yet you could receive points by correctly answering their questions and easing their doubts. The other confidants don't necessarily make sense to have these events (though maybe if you do start tanking your grades Kawakami can rescind her deal).

[@theorigin202]

*Gets Doubt* Akira: *ALL RIGHT!* Me: Sounds good to me! XD

[@HeavenlyM]

I’m glad they cut the Hifumi one, makes her seem really rude to care so much about dumb pieces. Depending on how far this would’ve happened in the confidant would’ve seemed kinda out of place

[@maximussaktish]

It kind of make sense if she ask her this on rank 1 or 2, im sure she wouldnt want to train some one whodiesnt even know how to move the pieces

[@Househoppper]

1:06- Takemi: This will affect Takemi’s trust in me, I have to answer it correctly

[@some_1214]

0:42 Takemi: doesn't trust you Ren: "Alright"

[@MidnightLobster7]

I miss this system deeply. There needed to be mechanics like this to keep Social Links interesting and more legitimate. Sometimes in life, a few wrong words or enough time away leads to a fractured or broken relationship. I hope they bring this back fully one day, and I'm glad it's at least on their minds. Make it so we can do two things a day, but have mechanics like this to keep in mind when using our time. That would do wonders for the pacing of Persona, making it far less of a long drag across many days, and makes time management more nuanced.

[@maximussaktish]

Its already almost impossible to complete all social link blind, this would only make it way too hard, it could be implemented in a hard mode or something but if this was the default im not sure i would enjoy p5 as much

[@QWeRTY-vf4ly]

Tell me you're a masochist without telling me you're a masochist.

[@Aperez]

Chihaya: I discovered your true identity! Joker: I'm a Phantom Thief? Chihaya: What? You know what, I don't care about the truth! Joker: She caught me through my lie! Also Joker: All right! So he admits that telling her the truth about him being a Phantom Thief is considered a lie to him. LOL

[@roadrunner2fastt]

I actually used to think Takemi would actually do this. It was before I even got into persona so I just saw it and went with it lol

[@IceBlueLugia]

This was my first persona, when I first started if I got a text from Takemi and a team member I always made sure to accept her requests because I thought she had higher standards or something and I couldn’t just say no to her requests or she would get upset. Then I started having to do it more and more often as I unlocked more party members and realized it wasn’t a big deal

[@VenNoel]

Ohya: what sin was Madarame convicted of Player: Lust Ohya: no it’s PRIDE Player: it’s Greed Ohya: yeah that sounds about right

[@Enigma75614]

Underrated comment.

[@TheBasedTyrant]

I was so confused when she said it was pride

[@ryanp7546]

@@TheBasedTyrant i mean,madarame literally showed pride in plagarizing the artworks

[@kawaiicookiuwu3322]

Glad this was cut it's too much juggling to build up a confidant with such limit of days, let alone build down. Now unless they took out Morgana constantly telling you to go to bed or re-arranged some other things, like maybe you get to stay up late but the price is you do bad in school or something. Other than that, if it stayed in, just like this but placed into the game, this is pointless and would probably slow you down when building up personas in the velvet room.

[@iaxacs3801]

Negative social stat modifiers would be interesting but would have the same problem as the Doubt system here

[@Daniele-PierreDuLac]

Not gonna lie the "alright" is the best part of this video.

[@UnitatoEpic]

Man the Yoshida ones feel really out of place, I feel like he'd just do his best to teach you instead of going off on you

[@arielmartinez94]

These all feel so random, and if there were in the game, it would make it way more annoying than challenging, glad they were cut from it

[@danwilliams1989]

You maintain Chihaya’s trust…..by saying that you’re two-timing her? What?

[@fun-sizedalchemist4748]

tHE TAKEMI ONE IS SO FUNNY I'M SORRY I'M DUMB TAKEMI I HAVE BEEN STUDYING BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN I'M SMART Also Takemi the correct answer would be 'I want to get rich' no one wants to get into a top university to make fRIENDS you can make friends anywhere you go to top universities for the prestige and a job that'll make you rich Also I can't believe it Kawakami gets mad at you if you show social progress and get a friend asdfgjhk Joker quits on all his friends otherwise his teacher won't let him skip class to make tools Also the idea of Yoshida being disappointed in me makes me so sad ashfkh I'm sorry Politician Dad ;n;

[@FazPersona]

" I'M SORRY I'M DUMB TAKEMI I HAVE BEEN STUDYING BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN I'M SMART" Literally me lmao

[@zobozo5059]

Seriously tho. Lots of people go to university and stuff to get a degree so they'd be able to get a higher paying job. "I want to get rich" makes a lot of sense. But yeah, apparently Joker can't make friends or Kawakami will suddenly lose his trust in him. This honestly makes no sense. One of the reasons why I'm glad the reverse links were removed. I think this mechanic would be neat if done right but this...this is not how you do it lmao

[@ctpp64]

not even sure how the kawakami one makes sense. like, joker hangs out with his friends all the time at school right? Shouldn't she already know that he's not a loner?

[@zobozo5059]

@@ctpp64 For real tho. She knows he's friends with Ryuji at least. Its so dumb. Again, glad this was removed. It made no sense.

[@TheBrutalSax]

“Takemi there’s a reason why I need drugs to study lmao”

[@todorokipicturebutitsusedb6756]

Dang imagine if you didn’t know any of them and this was in the game

[@Jessica_Schweser]

I remember seeing this somewhere and thought this was in

[@worldsboss]

One of the few bits of unused content that I’m glad they left out. This looks like it would’ve been frustrating.

[@Cheeseburger290]

I honestly don’t understand why some people want reverting to be a thing in p5, if your trying to max out all confidants it pretty much fucks your entire playthrough, there’s already hardly enough time in the game as it is, spending time trying to fix broken or reverted confidants pretty much ruins the entire run of the playthrough

[@shrimpshufflr7745]

It’s because they’re thinking about it as more of a book to read and enjoy rather than a race to perfect and feel accomplished with

[@thunderbase1916]

Yeah i guess u make sense gameplay wise but it would make them more realistic and make the game more immersive. Could have an option to set it or not. Would have been fun. The idea of being restricted knowing u broke someones trust and a constant reminder of u reap what you sow(could have worded that differently)

[@SUMNERHOUSES2]

Image on Igor and the twins.

[@Aluminiaum]

I wish that there was something like that for the twins if you accepted Yaldabaoths offer on 12/24

[@SUMNERHOUSES2]

Aum right what if lavensa split again

[@bigdingus9333]

She can kinda do that when she wants lol. Unless dancing isn’t canon

[@SUMNERHOUSES2]

Big fella alfredo imagine xd

[@garrettkrenzler3091]

@@bigdingus9333 dancing isn't canon, but she can split into the twins for the optional NG+ fight in Royal

[@eclecticspaghetti]

Obviously this is an interesting idea in concept, but how it works mechanically here just... sucks. Like, really really sucks. You have to answer a seemingly pointless and sometimes nonsensical question, and if you don't, your good friend suddenly just stops trusting you? That's not "realistic" or "believable," like i see some of the comments defending this idea saying. Especially since you have dialogue choices in regular confidant scenes that are just as ridiculous as these "untrustworthy" answers, and those either get laughed off or completely ignored. It would have to be implemented in a much more complex and interesting way to actually be a worthwhile feature, and even then just the idea of being able to lose progress like this would turn a great deal of players off.

[@Darius13456]

also how to know what answer even is right in the first place

[@narasnek]

It's a shame that this was scrapped, early persona was more realistic about human relationships and you were punished if you made the wrong decision, like in real life, also this game is the easiest to max all the confidants/social links.

[@PrevTsukasaRui]

I wish they could add this as free dlc but you can change if you want it. Also have this for the party where you can use them in party but they refuse to use endure and the other skills. Also it'd be cool for it to work like P3 (I think it is) where you just don't care anymore and can reconcile if you feel like it Imagine doubt with Akechi 🤣

[@ziro6319]

Giving me persona 3 flashbacks

[@lazyzero]

3:55 Best Part

[@tony-_-doge]

I wouldn't mind this if you have more days and if they added it in for a very hard mode maybe after you beat the game it can bring some replayability with some other mechanics to help you balance it a bit but I wouldn't mind it

[@julinyas]

It would have been a lot more interesting if reverse links weren't cut--adding some real consequences to your choices.

[@loganwendigo937]

Why I find this weird is because all these characters obviously suspected the truth but went along with the false stories anyways. So for them to get mad at Joker and test him just feels out of character for all

[@VeryHungryEggshelleater]

0:43 "Alright! 😀"

[@josephcruz2789]

Luckily, the Reverse Links weren’t add in Persona 5

[@ARZ_201]

What's so bad about them. They're great. I liked them being in p3 and 4, It actually makes the character feel real.

[@zobozo5059]

@@ARZ_201 They're just a pain in the ass. You got so many confidants to juggle around. I think if done correctly, the reverse links would be neat.

[@ARZ_201]

@@zobozo5059 they were done correctly. They add more character into them. It makes it so much more fulfilling when you finish it. It’s one of the reasons why I like 3 and 4 over 5

[@zobozo5059]

@@ARZ_201 I get what you mean. I just found the reverse links so annoying. The first time that happened to me, I was so confused and didn't understand what to do. I just feel that we got so much confidants in the game and not that much time in the game to implement them (I mean you can't even spend time with confidants at the beginning of the Okumura arc when Morgana is missing). I hope I'm making sense. But I definitely do agree the reverse links does help to add character, and p5/r does lack a lot of characterization. Akechi and maruki are the only characters in the game that are really well written in my opinion.

[@ARZ_201]

@@zobozo5059 p5 doesn't really have a lot of good characters and the story isn't the best of the persona series. In my opinion 2 has a better story. Really the only thing 5 has going for it is the gameplay. They should have reworked the okumura arc more, add more development for haru and let her take the centre stage instead of morgana since he just had a inferiority problem when it really wasn't that big of a deal

[@El_deudor_de_Debito]

Be gay, broke friendships

[@phenompy]

THe things that weirds me out the most of this is the 60fps framerate lol

[@Manavine]

I feel Persona 5 would have been both the most interesting but also most *dickish* of the doubts. If Takemi or Iwai doubt you, more than likely, you lose *all* access to their shops from what I understand. Iwai doesn't feel comfortable selling you a gun, Takemi doesn't feel comfortable selling you medicine. There goes your two main suppliers. Period. But to be blunt, most of your deals are built on lies outside of your party members. Most are *deals* off an assumption. Hifumi doesn't make sense though, and I feel Chihaya should be a forced doubt but only comes in from relying on her too much without actually taking a part of her deal. Chihaya would be able to figure out if you're bullshitting her through fortunes, and if the outlandish is actually true, there's no way she wouldn't realize you aren't ordinary.

[@shrimpshufflr7745]

Hifumi would make sense if she thinks you’re not hanging out with her for shogi and instead just because she’s a celebrity

[@boredbox]

I like the the word they used the word Doubt being used for ths social links

[@cyberqueen7784]

Honestly, reverse Social Links aren't a bad idea if done correctly. P3 FES did have some bumps I didn't like. It simulates what can happen even with a close relationship and reconciling.

[@HeavenlyM]

Yeah I honestly don’t mind reverse social links, but maybe make them easier to fix, maybe just take one hangout to fix. If done right it can make sense, like when I broke Yukari’s social link by trying to cheer her up in the wrong way I understood it, when people are mad like that they can get irrational. Most people look up guides to pick their responses anyway, so a lot of the same people saying that they don’t want it back wouldn’t even be affected by it anyways. I’d like to see it again

[@GatAnarquista]

* Takemi is starting to lose her trust in me * Joker: Alright!

[@jjm2711]

Alright, here goes nothing. Reconcile arc incoming

[@speedroidterrortop5391]

Glad this wasn't implemented. It's dumb to think people would stop hanging out with Joker just cause he can't answer a question. ...I comment this despite knowing that this channel is getting deleted, Unus Annus style...

[@futabanarugonzalez3399]

Thank god this was scrapped, too much struggle

[@fabiancaceres1473]

god memes has ruined the word "reverse" for me, i was sure this was goin to be "reverse uno card" or something aksjhd

[@tron0150]

It's a shame they were cut out. I really liked it in Persona 3, and that your girlfriend will broke up with you if you cheat on her too many times. But I guess that's what devs sacrificed for mass appeal, hey don't want for player to be inconvenience for a second, even if it removes weight from your actions. Persona 5 is just so easy, both in fights and social aspect, to the point it all becomes meaningless. In the end P5 left the least impact on me out of Persona games with social life aspect.

[@whodatninja439]

they dont want the player to feel bad or have any sl say anything bad about the protagonist

[@whodatninja439]

they should have it on the hardest difficulty.

[@thatsewerguy6385]

Yoshida's doesn't even make sense for him to say. Really goes against his wish for young people to get respect as well

[@jellyAn6930]

Yk, some people complain about how grand the consequences are compared to the simple question that led to it. Easy fix, just make the confidant smth about the last time they met.

[@antoniusstanley1366]

the reverse UI animation is cool tho lol

[@athrunmoza8996]

Tho it s interest. I am very glad it got scrapped. It s really a hassle thing to do.

[@NightsChiII]

Is there something buggy with Ohya's Reverse Event? She mentions the answer is pride, but isn't it greed for Madarame? If you answer greed, she even mentions that's correct. Ohya is the real fake fan of the Phantom Thieves smh

[@polk1203]

Wait, Maderame was greed? I thought that was Kaneshiro.

[@polnareffswifeandgf]

@@polk1203 kaneshiro was gluttony and greed was okumura but i'm basing this from the ps4 achievements so i might be wrong.

[@Flamecrafter]

WHOA THIS IS COOL

[@Araraki-Itto1]

Why were all these great ideas scrapped? God.

[@ratzukezero5311]

it was cause of time problems, many ideas have to be scrapped

[@gleeetenderers7926]

@@ratzukezero5311 plus players could just reload a save and try again so they don’t waste that days time

[@AwesomeX]

I think this is a good idea for it to be scrapped. It's already hard enough to keep every Social link up as it is. I played P3 and it was nightmare for Social links

[@c-red4637]

I'm glad this was scrapped, game would've pissed me off if I had to regain trust and boost confidant relationships WHILE on a time limit.

[@Araraki-Itto1]

@@ratzukezero5311 it would have made the friendships more realistic. Its just unheard of to never upset someone in a friendship or fight.

[@TallTapper]

i agree

[@yazai9071]

What’s the menu music towards the end?

[@user-nn5dh3cs9s]

I’m late but it’s the safe room music

[@zekura91]

Poke.

[@NinjaSox7]

What's the meaning of this.

[@celerity910]

Are the Break events still in the game?

[@PantaleonGeneral]

Nope

[@loudvoices101]

First cool vid!!

[@zobozo5059]

"I got a boyfriend."

[@jameswent48]

He is my friend’s boyfriend.