US F-35 vs German Typhoon

[@Gonzo-1421]

“losing or winning, it would be awesome, although I didn’t lose.” Way to go Mover. Way to stay humble 😂😂😂 That shit was funny.

[@carlchong7592]

“Neither of these two dudes are going to Weapons School…” -Gonky

[@cdyjv118]

Neither humble, credible, or approachable

[@themoverandgonkyshow]

It was a joke, they both were actually very humble!

[@carlchong7592]

@@themoverandgonkyshow It was a great diss from older men watching the next generation of gun fighters come up. Their trigger fingers twitching as deeply ingrained but deprecated reflexes are awakened again. "Don't look around while pulling high G's" that's wisdom from someone who rues kicking ass a bit too hard when they were younger. I wonder if there is design space in fighter helmet design to help a fighter look around with some sort of video overlay without cranking the neck. I hadn't thought about the practical problems of playing DCS, craning the neck around looking up and behind while the screen greys out a lot. Your 16lb head and helmet goes up past 100lbs when you crank 7G's while you bend your neck looking around. DCS could implement a crunching sound as your vertebra fail as you realize your stick and pedals go kind of dead.

[@cdyjv118]

@@carlchong7592 What?

[@rickwylie7322]

@@carlchong7592 Shoulder pads with bands that hook to the helmet and contract during G maneuvers to simulate the weight experienced during actual flight. 🤣

[@Iceman259]

They basically did a Growling Sidewinder video IRL, haha

[@amber1862]

The Typhoon and Rafale are absolute monsters, especially the upgraded ones. Gripen is also a beast in its own way. The deltas deserve way more respect imo.

[@specc_s1452]

Americans mostly dismiss them because they don't believe anything that isn't their own sucks

[@randallsanchez3161]

@@specc_s1452 No, we dismiss them because we know the strengths of weaknesses of high delta fighters. They Typhoon is a monster due to it's engine which gives it the extra legs it NEEDS to win in a rate fight. The Rafale and Gripen don't have that advantage. Otherwise they're one trick ponies. I mean let's pretend that we didn't learn anything from the Mirage series and their high delta characteristics. Also, the chances of merging with an F35 is rock bottom since you first have to see it to even know where to merge with it.

[@ryansta]

@@randallsanchez3161 Trouble comes when they figure out ways to see it, which they will do in time because every technology has a counter tech developed.

[@evanfinch4987]

rafale is not a "monster"

[@canicheenrage]

@@randallsanchez3161 The Rafale canards placement maintains an air flow for the wing in high turns, reducing the energy loss, while the Eurofighter has, while being heavier, a higher power to weight ratio. Meaning in high altitude, it has an advantage, while at medium lower altitude, it's the Rafale. In international competitions, the Rafale was consistently rated above the Eurofighter ( see swiss evaluation and dutch leaked sum up ), as in exercises. The Typhoon is catching up to the Rafale in capabilities, and an excellent aircraft anyway, but calling the Rafale inferior is just nonsense. Especially on just the power to weight ratio...

[@marktisdale7935]

Algorithmic engagement comment.

[@themoverandgonkyshow]

Algorithmic reply!

[@CodBoomer18]

Comment 2

[@jdswag5436]

👍

[@wyldhowl2821]

Obligatory trolling for more engagement and off-page views.

[@pablom-f8762]

Fox-3

[@JMGlider]

Wombat got old really quick! 😅

[@mattg5978]

Oh My God 🤣😂(No disrespect to the Desert Storm pilot but this was hilarious)

[@ardyzink7928]

The Luftwaffe guy had a World War 2 style Luftwaffe hair do and mustache. That, in itself, would be make your gloveless hands sweat. Let alone having him jump you and your Fat Amy in a Eurofighter. I wonder if he smokes cigars after he smokes his adversary for the complete Marseille look? (Marseille was the German equivalent to Robin Olds ... in many ways.)

[@wicked1172]

I like this show. I am a former KC-135 Boom.

[@brainforest88]

The Typhoon is a good locking fighter

[@jamesnichols7507]

It was way before your time but growing up we used to have metal roller skates that clamped to your shoes. To adjust the clamp force you had a roller skate tool on a lanyard around your neck.

[@slartybarfastb3648]

Was that before or after the invention of the steam engine?😂

[@markk364]

@@slartybarfastb3648 Let's go back even further: It was called a jumpoline before your mom jumped on it.

[@slartybarfastb3648]

@@markk364 OK genius. Ha ha, a mom joke. Did you gradiate 3rd grade?

[@pgm316]

I think Mover has changed since the Tim Davies episode, only a matter of time until we’re getting videos from your car!

"He was unusually humble for a German." As always you deliver a weekly dose of humour! Please do a 'best of' show as a Christmas special.

[@kpsig]

Germans are way humbler than the average American… lately at least.

[@icolky5272]

Awesome listening to 2 really experienced pilots talking about a scenario av geeks like me dream about without any agenda and just having fun 👍👍

[@MK-ug3hk]

Thats the Richthofen Jagdstaffel baby 🖖

[@mattg5978]

I enjoyed just the talking with paper airplanes. Not everything needs to be technology, technology, technology. BTW it was funny watching the American struggle to make one.

[@sferrin2]

One what? F-22?

[@mattg5978]

A paper airplane. My comment was in reaction to what Mover said about the video.

[@sferrin2]

@@mattg5978 Oh yeah. Most grade-schoolers could make a better one.🤣🤣

[@MC_Deedle]

I like how the vibe is that when something beats the F22 it’s because “it’s not really trying” but when something beats the F35 it’s because “it’s a joke of a plane”…

[@_Coffee4Closers]

Yeah, it's odd how they trash talk the F35 nonstop. There is almost ZERO chance a Euro Fighter would survive a one on one fight with an F35. You would think that real fighter pilots would know that "dog-fights" are a thing of the past. Hell there has not been an actual dog-fight in 40 years.

[@sirbonobo3907]

This is cool. I love the Eurofigthter as a German but since BVR is always almost the way to fight nowadays stealth beats it. Close encounter Eurofighter is a beast. I mean the EF has meteors but if you cant see the enemy or see it but cant lock it is bad. So iam glad we get 6th gen in 2035-40 way to late for my taste.

[@123fockewolf]

Man take it easy stealth is not invisible it is less detected not invisible.

[@gups4963]

@@123fockewolf Who will detect who first 90% of the time? Or more?

[@kontoname]

@@gups4963 First of all... if stealth jets actively detect - as in blast enemies with radars, then they aren't stealth anymore. Same with shooting, maneuvering or generally flying them out of optimal scope. That said jets, missiles etc. are all datalinked. Fox 3 missiles can be guided on AWACS data even. We don't even have to go towards passive radars or developments in stealth detection etc. Frankly the best capability is to have a combination. Stealth alone isn't worth it if your airplane just sucks without it though. Because think about it - that regime is WAY better suited to drones. Nobody needs a FIGHTER pilot in a jet that's not fighting and instead is just a weapon deployment platform. While that truth hits hard, it's one that can't be avoided unless you are high on copium.

[@gups4963]

@@kontoname Great, and if we were talking about is a situation that wasn't one on one? I'd agree with a lot of what you said, alas we aren't. Calm down

[@123fockewolf]

@@gups4963 Man Im stating facts about close range gunfight and you are crying xD This video showed that F-35 is fat amy for a reason because its not a dogfighter it excels in BVR ? So why do you answer who will see who first when this video was about a dogfight guns only where F-35 is ass.

[@ryansmithza]

You guys are always awesome to watch and listen to!

[@maximilliancunningham6091]

5:00 thank you Mover, for your honesty. In visual range.

[@robertdonnell8114]

This reminds me of the issues in WWII where in fighting dissimilar aircraft the pilots were under orders to use tactics that optimized their advantages like speed or turns.

[@markk364]

This reminds me of growing up watching my two sisters talk!

[@tomriley5790]

He's not wrong BVR would likely have killed the Eurofighter BVR but the Eurofighter's still a beast.

[@RichelieuUnlimited]

Looking at the respective stats the F-35 should be at a disadvantage even in BVR. It can’t go as high and fast and carries four missiles at most, at best AIM-120Ds. It may have detection stand-off against the Eurofighter, but it would have to stay at a distance at which it is unlikely to have favorable launch parameters to avoid being tracked by the Eurofighter. Ignoring this, the Eurofighter’s countermeasures, namely the towed decoys, its IRIS-T missiles, chaff and electronic countermeasures would likely deplete the F-35‘s ammunition before it could achieve victory and the F-35 isn’t kinematically able to outrun the Eurofighter.

[@randallsanchez3161]

@@RichelieuUnlimited Yes and no. It would have to stay at distance to hold the advantage but not that much distance. The first launch at range means the EF has to immediately start defending while the F35 continues to close with a perpendicular angle. So now the EF is losing its altitude and energy advantage right off the bat as it tries to notch the missile. Meanwhile the F35 is now at a poor detection angle and still closing. A launch at 20nm gives the EF very little time react. And even at further distances the F35 wouldn't have to turn and gimble thus allowing full radar guidance to the target. The countermeasures are great when a missile is just going pitbull by itself but almost useless when the missile is given full guidance by an equally powerful radar. Even assuming that the EF dodges everything, it's radar isn't going to find the F35 unless its head on. So unless the EF gets a lucky visual, then the F35 get the advantage of position to make the first gun run.

[@RichelieuUnlimited]

@@randallsanchez3161 2x IRIS-T and 2x towed decoy vs 4 missiles in total = F-35 out of missiles and Eurofighter without a scratch. If the Eurofighter chooses to be aggressive it will be able to launch a Meteor on the F-35 and still avoid or counter the AMRAAM and suddenly it‘s the F-35 that is on the defensive. Add in for example AEW or ground based support and the Eurofighter is launching on the F-35 before the F-35 is capable of launching in turn. With the AESA upgrades for the Eurofighter things shift even further in its favor.

[@RichelieuUnlimited]

@@randallsanchez3161 In the end it’s a thought experiment, as those aircraft are unlikely to face off against each other in anger, but rather can support one another quite well with the Eurofighter acting as the ultimate missile truck and escort.

[@SuperTyrannical1]

Growling Sidewinder did a simulated version of this on DCS. Good watch.

[@Watcher40000]

I'm sorry, but I won't have a bad word said about Hobbit's CLASSIC, US Air Force moustache. 🫡

[@LILIAANVisser]

Awesome video. Loved the comradery between the pilots!!!

[@matthewnewnham-runner-writer]

"For you, ze merge and fight is now over."

[@manuelgreil4306]

IDK re. BVR. The F-35 definitely has very low frontal RCS going for it, and highly advanced sensor integration, but IMO lacks in the missile and combat radius department, until there's a replacement for the AMRAAM that'll fit internally (AIM-120 is, even though a great missile, still a *medium-range* AA missile). The Typhoon has the Meteor going for it, and who knows, with CAPTOR-E, it might actually be able to detect and track Fat Amy at distances beyond the AIM-120's effective range. Now, if the Luftwaffe would just get over itself and include PIRATE in their Tranche 4 procurement, the Eurofighter could become a serious BVR threat even to Gen 5 jets (especially the "Temu 5th gen" fielded by CBBG states (= Countries Bullied By Gonky) 😀

[@EvoraGT430]

Maybe in DCS world, but IRL this is pure speculation.

[@manuelgreil4306]

@@EvoraGT430 As indicated by my use of the terms "who knows", "might"....

[@warfarenotwarfair5655]

​@@manuelgreil4306The Eurofighter is a legacy airframe and an AESA radar isn't going to make it a game changer. The Typhoon was a jobs program the day it showed up unable to conduct air to ground strikes complete with a mechanical radar. There are already retired tranche 1 Typhoons and NATOs new fighter is the F-35A.

[@warfarenotwarfair5655]

​​@@EvoraGT430The Euros have been talking about an AESA radar for the Typhoon for 20 years. Many of the Typhoons never even received their air to ground upgrades and have been retired. In 2011 the UK's House of Commons in their minutes were grilling the RAF as to why the government shouldn't simply retire every Eurofighter and replace them with F-35As and Bs.

[@Likeaworm]

Aim 260 integration makes this statement null and void.

[@geraldgillespie3895]

Due to budget constraints…paper airplanes🫤

[@kpsig]

Even the paper airplanes are true to what they represent :-)

[@Clickworker101]

Both great. Germany will buy some f35 to complement the eurofighters. And lot of the rest of Europe has already some

[@Blackmoon9u9]

Only France is still independent in Europe with the Rafale

[@EvoraGT430]

@@Blackmoon9u9 Eurofighter is independent within Europe

[@Blackmoon9u9]

@@EvoraGT430 no when you use the F35, you become a US puppy

[@kpsig]

It is strange that people tend to focus on T/W ratio or SEP only… the are many more factors, decisively affecting the outcome of any dogfight, between equal pilots.

[@photographyisnotacrime7300]

Hobbit folded his paper airplane like a Thud (F-105). He will never survive a dogfight...!!!! Change my mind?

[@hoghogwild]

Eurofighter vs. F-35A guns only would have been cool footage.

[@darbyheavey406]

Robin Olds rocked a major mustache in the day…

[@markk364]

Robin Olds wasn't gay!!!!

[@mecampbell30]

I would have thought the F-35 and Eurofighter would be similar in thrust/weight. The F-35 has a little more total thrust and a little more weight. Maybe the F-35 was carrying more fuel.

[@markk364]

Put it this way - an F-4 could win against the F-35 in a turning fight!

[@EEEEEEE354]

​@@markk364 that's cap lol

[@EEEEEEE354]

Even then the typhoon has better thrust to weight

[@KarolusTemplareV]

With all the thrust it has, the F-35 has a hard time accelerating in the transonic and supersonic range. A very hard time. It takes forever for it to achieve max speed.

[@Migthunder]

The f35 has more thrust but the typhoon has a way higher thrust to weight ratio

[@geraldgillespie3895]

The, ‘al udied mustache’. 🥸

[@matthewnewnham-runner-writer]

I agree: that video was f'ing lame. When I was going through Fighter Lead-in in '82, we at least had model aircraft as training aids.

[@doomey22a]

That paper plane sums up current USAF/USN future planning

[@EEEEEEE354]

Yes because BFM is everything... Right?

[@concilium1]

First look, first shot, first kill?

[@slartybarfastb3648]

I think, but don't know, the real world scenario would have the Typhoon see the F-15EX shooting missiles at it from BVR while the F-35 guides AIM-120/260 to the terminal phase while remaining unseen.

[@mephistoxd2627]

Ideally, yes. In the real world, who knows.

[@slartybarfastb3648]

@@mephistoxd2627 This is the 'missile truck' tactic which has gained traction. With this tactic, the missile truck could potentially even be a B-52, or more likely, a B-21 Raider. It has no need to get any closer to the fight than it's missile's range. The controlling aircraft F-35/F-22 is the close in platform utilizing the larger, 4th Gen (or even bomber) aircraft's carrying capability.

[@sirbonobo3907]

In the real world no F15 would fight against EF but against Su27 and stuff. Bcause we are democracies fighting to survive against dictatorship. Cold war wasnt won its hot now again.

[@ot9er]

@@slartybarfastb3648 Or cargo plane.

[@JazzJaRa]

I think the Eurofighter would sling Meteor at the F-15 though xD Also in a real world scenario the Eurofighter wouldn't encounter a F-15EX except if the USA exports it to enemies of NATO.

[@seanquigley3605]

Hey to be fair to the F-35 folks, a F-105 Thud driver got 1 confirmed and 1 probable, pretty much confirmed Mig-17s during Vietnam so real combat will be different. If a Thud can do it so can Fat Amy. Dave Waldrop tells how he done it in this video kzbin.info3pkTX5GOAc0?si=kzWb-lwZGHmedkB7

[@GonzoT38]

Yabut the f105 got more of their own pilots killed than cancer. Thing was a turkey, and got absolutely mauled in Vietnam as a statistic. Fighter in name only. If I'm gonna get my ass picked off by guerrilla pilots in soviet scooters, I rather be in an a-7 or a-4.

[@markk364]

Wanted: MEN to fly fighter jets!!!!

[@enzoist1]

"Envious"

[@_Coffee4Closers]

Saying that the F35 would have won from beyond visual range is hardly a "cop out" it is likely a fact. I am always amazed at these guys hatred of the F35. For fighter pilots they seem to have little understanding of how modern air combat is working. It is just weird to me how they constantly trash talk the F35 with the silly "Fat Amy" disparagement, I don't understand how they think this way. I guess flying 4th Generation planes they just refuse to accept they will likely get waxed from well beyond visual range if they face a much stealthier, sensor fused opponent like an F35.

[@themoverandgonkyshow]

What do you fly?

[@RichelieuUnlimited]

Based on public data the F-35 doesn’t have the _effective weapons range_ to make use of its detection stand-off and carries too few missiles in stealth configuration to deplete the Eurofighter‘s countermeasures.

[@_Coffee4Closers]

@@RichelieuUnlimited LOL, totally FALSE! What "public data" are you referring too? We'll wait. The F35 can carry 6 AIM120, AMRAAM-ER, and standard AMRAM internally. There is ZERO chance the X-band radar on an Eurofighter will see the F35. If you think there is a 100% chance of countermeasures working you are daft. Besides the F35 has even more advanced counter measures. These kinds of comparisons are silly, there has not been a "dog fight" in over 40 years... those days are long gone. That Eurofughter is gonna eat one well beyond visual range.

[@TB-zf7we]

Richthofen Jagdstaffel 712, how cool is that!

[@anthonybarrett2446]

Paired with the 493d makes it even better.

[@wicked1172]

Exactly what I thought, that is totally cool.

[@markk364]

Was in Gkirchen where a flock of Germans colleagues (NATO AWACS) were singing old WWII luftwafgay songs, so a group of us 'victors' broke out into our "Bombs over Schweinfurt" song we had made up ---- they STFU real fast! I suppose I'm an old school flyboy, but chumming with an old adversary like that is what girl-men do!

[@Matt_Rides]

​@@markk364thanks for showing us how thick you are and still living in the 1940s.

[@constantinfrank1901]

@@markk364 there hasn‘t been one single deployment in wich in participated with the *Luftwaffe, where we had bad comradeship between us and the RAF, RAAF, USAF, USN, etc… fortunately you clowns are a minority and won‘t harm any of todays spirit. retard

[@wyldhowl2821]

7:18 🤣

[@Siddich]

er machen so. flugzeug machen so - abschuss

[@dperkey1999]

2 dudes wif staches

[@keepingcalm6469]

Look at these salty old dogs :) how they NOT envy active pilots. I'd count me in on that.

[@view23015]

Curious that Mover and Gonky both dismissed the F35 so quickly vs the Eurofighter because of thrust/power in this scenario? Does the F35 not have a maneuverability advantage , or is that gone in this type of engagement? Thanks guys - yes, using paper airplanes and video that doesn’t match what the pilots were describing is very , very odd and sad :(

[@nickbreen287]

The Typhoon was built to fight in a phonebox and it's good at it. F35 just was not built like that, it is a different machine with a different job.

[@123fockewolf]

F-35 has bad maneuverbility and also energy retention. Rafale Gripens Typhoons Su27-35 Mig 29-35 even a J-10 will easliy outmaneuver it because it was not built to dogfight. It is made for BVR.

[@markk364]

The F-35 is what the gay academy guys fly, straight ones get the raptor or the eagle! Do I need to translate any of that?

[@RichelieuUnlimited]

The F-35 isn’t the best tool for air-superiority, as it’s almost entirely reliant on its stealth. This doesn’t work in WVR and in BVR it’s only reliable against opponents that are dependent on older sensors. But that’s not as big of a problem IRL, as there would likely be proper air superiority platforms like the F-22 or Eurofighter available for support in any mission scenario in which the F-35 would be at risk.

[@albaraedkhil8119]

The Typhoon is much maneuverable than the F35 and can lock it missiles on it from a range that could go as far as 100km. I know that such a statement will trigger the “F off” response especially from the F35 fan boys but this is how it goes: The weakness of every stealthy aircraft is its heat signature. Stealthy aircrafts tends to have larger surface and can heat air enough to be spotted from a very long range “IF YOU KNOW WHERE TO POINT YOUR SENSORS AT”. This is the catch. Once the F35 fires anything withing 100km, or let’s say 80km from a Typhoon, it can be either spotted by RWR or IRST. in a dogfight ( engagement withing 10km ) the Typhoon will have all the necessary data to spot and lock on its foe. So there you go, Typhoon vs F35 in a dogfight, Absolutely the Typhoon. From WVR, If the typhoon spots the F35 with the IRST by any chance ( lets say the F35’s existence been discovered by X band ground radar and a Typhoon is sent in multiple direction to try and detect its position while the F35 is navigating without its stealthy radar and not using an AWACS datalink ) I give the Typhoon’s meteor BVRM the upper hand. In any other case, the F35 will still have undoubtedly huge advantages over the Typhoon. since we’re talking about a dogfight, I’ll go with the Typhoon.

[@Rotaks]

Nobody mentioned the importance of "Red Baron" patch on Luftwaffe pilot's arm ;) We have experience with real wars where jets are used, right. Syria, Ukraine. Are there any "stories" with jet vs jet gunfight????????????????????? Did it ever happened? Even for the fkin balloon - F-22 didn't use a gun! Wich would be cheaper as hell than shoot it down a BALLOON with a hi expensive rocket :/ So why there is such a "hype" over jets gunfights :| It's like "I can lift 100 kg!" , "and I can lif 200 kg!" - SO WHAT - YOU BOTH WORK AS A LAWYER :/

[@grevenstjube]

to many words …. interaction complete …

[@bobbrown8661]

The F35 looks like a stuck pig

[@cdyjv118]

@@bobbrown8661 Obese Amy

[@prokremelskidezolati1426]

Why on earth would Typhoon be so fast if it is SIGNIFICANTLY more agile than "fat Amy"? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 BVR is something else...

[@EvoraGT430]

Easy to get too quick with that much thrust.

[@JazzJaRa]

Eurofighter was designed as an Interceptor and then switched to Multirole.

[@prokremelskidezolati1426]

​@@JazzJaRa do you think, the interceptor always flies M=2? lol

[@prokremelskidezolati1426]

@@EvoraGT430 with an idiot in a cockpit yes

[@JazzJaRa]

@@prokremelskidezolati1426 if you need to quickly get up in the air to "intercept" something I would assume it to be fast....

[@mcal27]

F-35 is a stealthy A-7 or AV8. It has a legion of defenders, but in a knife fight it’s dead!

[@pp03337]

I am not so sure. The F-35 probably detects the Typhoon first and gets his BVR missiles of first. If they somehow missed, it probably could decide how/if to enter the WVR fight on it‘s terms. It‘s 9G rated, and carries it‘s stores internally so it is quite agile. In an operational setting, an opponent would have external stores and would be penalized by the added drags. In a real fight, i think, most will avoid a dogfight since fighters operates in numbers and his wingman would kill you. Both planes are great.

[@mcal27]

@@pp03337 they thought the same in Vietnam and in the Falklands conflict. In a real world scenario their are many complexities not seen in exercises or in computer simulations. In a real world conflict F-35’s will find themselves in knife fights and it’s high wing loading and comparatively low thrust tonight ration will go against it massively. I feel they will be used in an expanded F-117 role. Sneak in, launch and run away. Fine for strikes against ground targets and sure they can launch a bunch of AMRAAM and turntale, but that’s unlikely to win an air battle especially as missiles like the R-37X out range the AMRAAM considerably

[@pp03337]

I see what you mean. From a few interviews of the Dutch pilot who shot down a Mig-29 during operation Allied Force, it appears, that they were not to keen to enter a dogfight. The lead pair was too close before Awacs gave the confirmation and turned around to keep distance. He (Peter Tanking) was leading the second pair further behind and shot the mig29 with an Amraam. They practice BFM, but prefer BVR shots. Apparently, Iris-T, Aim 9x, etc. are quite deadly. One pilot even said: ´íf I end up in a dogfight, something has gone wrong´. From a few interviews of Dutch fighter pilots, I have the impression that they are very happy with the F-35. It is fun to do BFM in a F-16A with only 2 sidewinders. But to go to war, they all prefer the F-35.

[@mcal27]

@@pp03337 ‘all’ is a gross misrepresentation.. and untruth. Why is the F-35 given unflattering names by at least the RAF and USAF? You speak like a PR rep from Lockheed Martin lol

[@pp03337]

@@mcal27Haha, I am not working for LM. Just quoting a few Dutch pilots who are transitioning from the F-16 to the F-35. The pilots I saw talking praise the F-16, but are in agreement that the F-35 is much more surviable in a modern battlespace. The interviewed pilots say that during Red Flags exercises, it became clear that the F-16 AM is near the end of is operational usefulness. I really do not understand the bad reputation of the F-35. If one talks to the pilots flying them and the maintainers servicing them, the story is different.

[@larrycoonrod5563]

The sound is horrible on this video

[@AltronT]

This may have been Hobbit’s first training BFN sortie ever considering how risk averse the military has become regarding fighters. Which brings the question of just how familiar F35 pilots are of the minimum and maximum performance capabilities of the F35 in a dogfight.

[@ypw510]

I've seen F-35 (A and B) demos at public airshows. At least the demo pilots were showing high performance maneuvers that would be useful in dogfighting.

[@AltronT]

@@ypw510I know they don’t like using the afterburner because the tail gets too hot.

[@tomlobos2871]

it is more weird than you might think. the eufi has a long history of being underrated and misjudged. it is a multirole do everything in superiority fighter, kinda smaller F-15, taylored to european needs. the F-35 though has a different role and meaning alltogether. so this result isnt surprising at all, rather a confirmation of two classes of aircraft and their individual advantages. if weighting that up, they both do equally well in a real combat scenario i bet. however eufi is high on order list and a current backbone of european defence already. it needs a little more attention in public notice to give trust in european defence abilities plus investments. then there is the elephant in the room that trump may bail out of european defence entirely so alternatives need to be advertised more or less. F-35 were ordered for the matter of nuclear partnership and american warheads inside nato comittment. that part of nato falling off needs alternatives wich to be found in britain and france with that eufi launched delivery platforms. the idea of american freefall bombs is outdated anyways, that would be a cruise missile in a modern doctrine. so why no taurus for ukraine? then hence german pilots claim they dont practice against other than eurofighters. how about the top aces skyhawk and tornado? and even nato excercises all around the globe? some of them are on deployment to secure nato airspace. mockfighting russian jets? a common thing. so this is bonkers.

[@coolsquad7428]

It is as both eurofighters and f35 are heavily misjudged in todays space of aviation, as the eurofighter is a really good multirole as it is one of the top 5 multirole fighter jets there is but at the end of the day it is a air superiority, another issue is that it is a exercise more then likely they gave the advantage to the eurofighter as the f35 do carry just about 2x more fuel then the eurofighter, as almost all training exercises with allies normally make the usa lose or at a disadvantage. The other issue I always see with the f35 is that people will always say oh the f35 can't dogfight when the f35 got a 20:1 to the f16 guns only fight and even f16 pilots says they have a extremely hard time trying to get offensive against the f35. For the eurofighter, people will say it isn't a great interceptor when it is actually pretty good as it has a pretty powerful asea radar and is low observability like the F18 superhornet mixed with good missiles. The downside of the eurofighter is the cost as it is $124 million per air frame which is more expensive then the f35 currently is, the next downside is going to be production and reliablity as the production is still limited and reliability isn't as good as the f16 and or f35 (except the b varient lol), the other reason why it isn't as good is because the dessert rafale is a better multirole fighter jet that is a 20 million cheaper. Overall the eurofighter is a great aircraft for countries who can't get the f35 and need a air superiority with strike capabilities. The down sides of the f35 is going do be the production but they are now in full production, the other issue I see is most likely money and integration of nato weapons.

[@deantait8326]

Hope Y’all are Voting. PLEASE VOTE! Save the USA 🇺🇸

[@bryanbishop2377]

I like the way the Germans kept their haircut consistent for the last century! 🙄

[@gotzvonberlichingen1042]

It's a normal very common short-haircut in germany, even school kids wear in. Different countries, different customs. 😉

[@bryanbishop2377]

@@gotzvonberlichingen1042 I have no doubt...

[@matatron.]

Yes, they were truly quite ahead of their time. I see this haircut everywhere now.

[@worldwanderer91]

First

[@happycanayjian1582]

*Hate the fact Canada’s going with the F-35….😩😩😩

[@phoaschell6783]

Both have mustaches - credentials checks out. F35 pilot likely not allowed to use all the full potential of the F35.

[@markk364]

Fancy Binocularrrs!

[@RichelieuUnlimited]

@@phoaschell6783 What makes you assume the Eurofighter pilot was allowed to use his jet to its full potential? The F-35 isn’t a generational leap over the Eurofighter, it’s a similarly modern design with a different design focus. And those different design choices make the F-35 inferior to the Eurofighter in the air superiority role, but superior in things like SEAD.

[@skyhorseprice6591]

Waitaminnit here...did they not say the Typhoon overshot the F-35 and became defensive? Which makes it sound like the F-35 won...()?()👁️👀👁️

[@markk364]

Even then, Fat Amy, and its Mollycoddle pilot, is no mach for a Cesna! It turns that well!

[@daveyboy8088]

You guys are a waste of time

[@123fockewolf]

stop crying

[@Nackenzwei]

in the end everything is. I enjoyed wasting my time watching their video, though :)

[@markk364]

Some drink from the fountain of knowledge; you only gargled.

[@cdyjv118]

@daveyboy8088 Then dont watch moron

[@MrJunglebear1]

So lets just do this , lets put Mover in his Viper and Gonky in his Hornet, against a Fat Amy , and the Baloon killer, , I would say we would see those two aircraft wings deep in the ground and a viper and Hornet doing victory rolls

[@cdyjv118]

Theyve both beat Raptors in 38s as AIDAIR....

[@markk364]

Every do any research on the Raptor? Didnt think so!

[@MrJunglebear1]

@@markk364 , Yes, my Uncle and I both, that's because, he worked at Northrop , was one of the designers of the flying wings, the XB35 and the XB49 and everything in between from the wing to the F20 , Including as he called the scorpion , 40.000 lbs of crap about a year before he dies, he checked out the F22 and as an engineer, his comment was that he finally found a aircraft that won the title of 40,000 pounds of crap beating out the Scorpion , the so called baddest fighter on this planet has been beaten by not only Gonky and Mover in a 70 year old aircraft the T 38s, but by every , NATO Fighter in existence, the only thing the raptor is good for is killing balloons, and if the balloons fought back the raptor would lose to them as well that piece of junk could not even defeat a ww2 fighter, in a one circle fight, a zero would be inside a raptor and pulling lead in half a turn , that plane is a piece of garbage, and so is fat Amy