US Soccer Makes a Decision...Sort of

[@jamind7680]

US Soccer never misses an opportunity to show how inept they are and how they aren’t leaders. Great job reviewing and appreciating your commentary.

[@CyberXShinobi]

The fact that USSF came out of no where to say that they were looking at this issue, just to turn around and say “to be continued” is such a wasted opportunity.

[@CoachRorySoccer]

Agreed.

[@adamag125]

Graduation years makes a lot of sense. It's what most of the kids I've spoken to prefer, in large part b/c they want to play w/ friends in their grade. It's so strange how one year makes such a big difference, but 8th graders playing w/ 9th graders is a big difference in the eyes of kids. A one year difference is clear in terms of performance, too. Last year my kiddo's ECNL team (2010) didn't stand a chance against the 2009 ECNL RL NTX team they practiced with (the older group was so much bigger, faster, stronger due to an extra year of puberty at a fast-growing age range (my kid went from 5'4" to nearly 5'10" in b/w 7th and 8th grade)). No matter what our club chooses, as long as the kids are having fun, I'm happy, lol!

[@BigSwinging_1735]

honest question; how would that change if the age bracket changed? The team above yours would still have a 12-month advantage or am I not understanding correctly

[@davidgeist8525]

Non-Answer is the perfect summary Coach. Why not just stick with birth year but allow a buffer of flexibility down (since no one is super concerned about kids playing up). Eg: 2015 birth year but if the kid is in 3rd grade instead of 4th grade because they were born after Labor Day, let them play down if that's better for their development. Most kids playing competitively are interested in playing up, not down.

[@CoachRorySoccer]

A sensible solution. Get this man on USSF board immediately!

[@michaeljensen4095]

41% to 47% is not irrelevant or close to equivalent. That is a 14.5% difference and pretty conclusive statistically. In the ages where players transition from rec to competitive, I think the change from a grade based team (which virtually all beginning rec teams are in my experience) to a calendar year is difficult and sometimes unhealthy for the younger players or even frustrating for the older players who find the younger / grade below immature. A Feb birthday in 4th grade is very different socially and maturity-wise than a December 3rd grader - in my experience much more so than a 10-month gap in the same grade. Fully agree that US Soccer continues to provide poor leadership and should be more firm about their position one way or another.

[@BigSwinging_1735]

even if the age group moved to up 6ish months there would still be a difference in maturity/development of kids with 11 months between birthdays

[@michaeljensen4095]

@ undoubtedly there is a developmental difference in any kids with an 11 month age gap. But I’m suggesting that it is compounded by the additional difference in school grades where a “young” 4th grader born in June is socialized to the maturity of an August year prior 4th grader more than a December 4th grader is to a January 5th grader when they are stuck on the same team. There isn’t a perfect solution, but as a coach I find challenges integrating the different grade level social behavior more than the age gap across a given year.

[@crwfabrication8350]

@@michaeljensen4095 You make an excellent point about SOCIALIZED MATURITY. The socialized maturity between grades, not age, is HUGE. I'm from a family of teachers and I can't express enough how social behavior and maturity level between grades is huge. It does make a huge difference not only to the child but also to the rest of the team particularity at the lower grades. The rest of the team does suffer when an immature player constantly disrupts the practice session just as students in school suffer when an immature student constantly disrupts the classroom. There are no down sides to school year groupings while there are numerous downsides to birth year groupings.

[@briankim1626]

@@michaeljensen4095 Michael, with all due respect I have coached since 2011. I do not think there is any difference in maturity just based on grade level. My team last year was 7th and 8th graders (2010 boys). The more mature players on the team were my 7th graders! 😂 My team leader and captain (and one of the best players on the team) was a 7th grader. There are not really any major advantages of school year over birth year or vice versa and the pain of switching is not worth the benefit.

[@michaeljameshill3729]

The leagues have several months to think about it and market Spring tryouts. If the change is coming anyway, do it Fall 2025. If the details are being left to the leagues to decide anyway, then take the initiative and do it for Fall 2025. ECNL/NPL could do it in 2025 to give them an advantage in marketing and forming new teams before the other leagues make the shift a season later. You snooze, you lose. Why do our kids want to be on "temporary" teams for another year (2025/26) instead of forming the real teams with their friends they will ride into the future with?

[@CoachRorySoccer]

There’s just no leadership. These are great questions I’d love to hear answered.

[@JC94115]

Let me simplify: All governing bodies and, in turn, leagues can do whatever they want in order to make the most money.

[@ShogunMyachi]

We are a brand new club in our area and were very excited to see the change, just for them to say “nevermind” and that’s very disappointing. As a developmental club, having kids be able to play with classmates adds to the enjoyment of the game, thus bringing more kids to our club and that was a missed opportunity for us. Our local recreation department already does school year, so we are splitting up kids who have played together for years at the rec level because of the lack of leadership

[@BigSwinging_1735]

well hopefully as a new club you had planned for multiple outcomes

[@ShogunMyachi]

@ I mean obviously, but this just wasn’t our preferred outcome. Our local rec uses school age, so we’re splitting rec teams up at this point. Unfortunate.

[@timhoward6119]

I'm coaching U12 Rec (born 2013-2014) and my kids are a mix of 4th, 5th and 6th graders. One challenge at this age is my 6th graders play on their Middle School teams too (11v 11, full rules) but then have to switch back to 9v9 No Headers for our U12 rec games. Our rec league has a hard cutoff on ages due to headers (so younger kids can't play up to U14 because their squishy brains aren't allowed to be in matches where headers are allowed). Anyway, just some thoughts on complications there are at U12/U14 with player safety and organization.

[@crwfabrication8350]

This is another excellent observation and all the more reason why we need to use school calendar date cut offs. Unless the soccer world thinks its going to change roughly 14,000 middle schools to adopt private club rules for their public school athletic programs. Not happening. A side note, as we now learn how devastating harmfull concussions are to children, why would we not err on the side of safety?

[@carljensen5730]

I've always thought the whole thing was dumb. They should make it based on age by a certain date prior to each season, spring and fall, for example. So, 14U would be any kid 14 or under prior to the start of the season, whatever season that is. So, if you are 14 or younger by a specific date in spring, you can play 14U. If you turn 15 prior a specific date for that same year fall season, you play 16U. That would be most accurate based on age, which is the most important factor is creating the age groups. In essence, the age would be more accurate up to around half a year. Also, it should be standard for ALL soccer, even international so that you could have fair competitions between any leagues.

[@wood73]

Always thought it should be this way too.

[@bradenr4463]

I like birth year for ease of use. I understand school year but some have an August cut off and some September how do you fix that? There will still be trapped players? What happens to kids held back in school by their parents or the school?

[@Doomclown]

Just have the cut off at 7/1; kids can always play up to play with their friends if that's important to them, but they can't play down, there's no reason to set the date exactly at the school cut-off. Maybe it would be different if the school year ran from 8/1 to 7/31.

[@marzmarch]

The “held back” players ruin other sports that use grade level.

[@crwfabrication8350]

@@marzmarch no one uses grade level. No one. It's school calendar DATE, not "grade" cut off. For instance, if you're child is going to play in the U12 classification, either your child does not turn 13 before August 1st or he does, its that simple, there is no maybe or conditions. If he does, he moves to the U13 classification.... regardless of what grade he actually is in. It doesn't matter if a child was super smart and moved up a grade or was not and was held back. Absolutely irrelevant.

[@jkulstad]

Thanks Rory. I feel much the same. My kid would "benefit" from the change but VASTLY prefers to stay with the current team. I like the idea of ECNL teams sticking with birth year or some version of that...

[@jspring9588]

Coach can you provide a link to the screenshots you showed in this video? Thank you for these videos

[@CoachRorySoccer]

cdn.sanity.io/files/oyf3dba6/production/14df849e78b38da011e1bff5144256520f76eea3.pdf

[@marzmarch]

Birth year is far more difficult to abuse. Other sports have rancid issues with “grade year”. Especially in competitive leagues.

[@crwfabrication8350]

How is school year easier to abuse? Do other sports get confused on understanding what August 1st means? (Just using August 1st as an example. For the .00001% of the population that travel to parts of the country where there is another school year date cut off, say September 1st... who cares, soccer is for the masses, not just for the elite, rules should be made that support the many, not the few) It's a black and white issue. Either you were or were not born before or after August 1st just like you were or were not born this year or that year. What's to abuse? For instance, if you're child is going to play in the U12 classification, either your child does not turn 13 before August 1st or he does, its that simple, there is no maybe or conditions. If he does, he moves to the U13 classification.... regardless of what grade he actually is in. Where is there room for abuse?

[@CarltonGoff]

Well that decision is as clear as mud! We need some overall leadership on this or our leagues will never catch up with the rest of the world.

[@CoachRorySoccer]

💯

[@11yoyomama]

I think an issue with school year is that not every state or type of school (public/private) in the US does school year cutoff the same. So if someone moves, they might be at a physical advantage / disadvantage.

[@T-1000v3ai]

they are roughly the same

[@d.l.1567]

Thank you for continuing to discuss this lack of leadership on this almost change of a change. But can someone please tell me what is the expectation for how many kids (%) would play with their classmates at a club on a travel team? Depending on 7v7, 9v9, 11v11 a roaster would have 10-20 kids. Best case scenario you might have 1-2 kids you know from school from a distance, maybe one that you actually talk to. Soccer, like most team sports, require communication and collective hard work. You are more likely to make friends on your team than you are within your group of 20 kids in your class, group that changes every 12 months. At that's if you play at your level; if you play up, who exactly are you close with from school? And yes, you may play for a few months for your school...but that season is short by comparison to a full year of club play and your school teammates could very well play for various clubs on various teams. So my point is that I am yet to hear a statistical and realistic argument to support the "social" reason for changing the structure. Rec is a different story because many parents put their kids in to play sport and have fun without the commitment of travel soccer. US Soccer is weak for many other reasons from the age of 4 all the way up to the MLS/NWSL. Regrouping the kids and creating a logistical mess every few years just to look like we're doing something is not the way imho. Just pick a clear path, create alignment and stick with in.

[@CoachRorySoccer]

This is a good point. I think it’s mainly rec that this is aimed at. Because some of us are so deep into the competitive/travel realm we sometimes forgot there a a ton of rec players and league across the country. But yes as you get to the higher level teams it is true most are from different schools and even different cities. I mean my son’s MLSNext team has kids from multiple states on it.

[@jkulstad]

This point should be amplified. Club soccer is a different beast where I live. Rec soccer has a huge social component. However, you need to be able to adapt and shift with different teammates, coaches, formations, strategies, etc. if you are going to play club soccer. Every time my kid has changed teams in the club it has brought new ideas and experiences. That part of club soccer needs to be embraced. Once you hit a certain level, you need to be comfortable with change or you are in the wrong sport.

[@jasonhenderson6981]

Sometimes players can have the same birth year but be in different grades so depends where in the year their birthday falls. My daughter started school a year early so had to play with players in a grade below. Was not a positive because she only knew them through soccer and was kind of the outsider.

[@channeljeight7415]

Birth year is best. Some kids will have a 2 year advantage if you got with school year. For instance, a child born in Jan. 2013 is older than a child born in Dec. 2013. Let's say that the kid that is already about a year older is also held back a grade and competing against child born in 2014. Yea, keep the birth year at all cost.

[@CoachRorySoccer]

There would still be date requirements so the kids held back wouldn’t matter.

[@crwfabrication8350]

That's not how its done at all. For instance, if you're child is going to play in the U12 classification, either your child does not turn 13 before August 1st or he does, its that simple, there is no maybe or conditions, it doesn't matter what grade he actually is in. If he does turn 13 before August 1st, he moves to the U13 classification.... regardless of what grade he actually is in. It's school date cut off, not school grade cut off.

[@teamswatsoftball]

This decision was the worst of all worlds. I live in Southern California and each league is going to do what it wants and it won't translate as kids get older

[@ericmoore203]

Coach you are correct in saying what they need is leadership! By essentially straddling the fence they've made themselves look foolish. I get both sides of this discussion, but ultimately think it should stay with birth year. There are quite a few kids who took a covid year of school, and are now a year behind. Switching to school year would enable teams in tournaments and league play to have quite an advantage.

[@CoachRorySoccer]

There would still be a defined calendar for example u12 being Aug 1st 2013- July 31 2014. Just now it’s school based not specific year based. So even if kid got held back they couldn’t take advantage etc.

[@ericmoore203]

@CoachRorySoccer Thanks for clarification. Their was some confusion over that at our last club meeting. Coaches wondering if their team would be broke up because of grade not age.

[@briankim1626]

@@ericmoore203 Eric, to be clear, current teams WILL be split up if we go to school year. Same thing happened in 2017 when we went from school year to birth year.

[@BigSwinging_1735]

Taking more time to make a decision seems smart. If the feedback they rx'd is 'clear' and that members need flexibility and 82% stated they aren't ready to make that drastic a change then the majority of the statement makes sense. I understand wanting either change/no change , but it appears they based their current decision of data and not emotion. Also thinking one blanket rule for all soccer leagues regardless of location (ex: rural Iowa v. urban Dallas) instead of relative flexibility works best really does seem short-sighted.

[@CoachRorySoccer]

They could have carve outs etc as well.

[@JordanPrempeh1985]

Makes no sense because it is already the wild Wild West, so if league has its own how can teams play in tournaments? Means those leagues will have to organize tournaments based on the option they pick and exclude other leagues with teams who will want to do those tournaments. They had no idea how to proceed with this and is just making football in this country worse

[@CoachRorySoccer]

Zero leadership. Starts at the top.

[@LoadedGasMask]

We’re allowed to agree or disagree but there needs to be a structure !

[@CoachRorySoccer]

I think we agree. 😂

[@LoadedGasMask]

@ 🤣

[@to4mac]

Yes, this is more complicated BUT wouldn't allowing leagues to flexibility help soccer development in a global sense, because having both BY and SY leagues would help minimize RAE? Seems like right now if you want to get on a top team, it's much harder to do as a younger player in your age group. If there are two, 12-month windows, that potentially gives families more options and could grow participation. Also, I think they should start this with the younger age groups to minimize disruption for current teams (except perhaps they should offer more flexibility for trapped players).

[@chrisbrixius9450]

My sons U10 travel team is a mix of 2015-2016 birth years and we have grown as a group. The grades actually range from 2nd to 4th and the coaches kids are the youngest. The skill level is there to compete at U10 mid tier. I am concerned about how this change will affect our team.

[@coachbjorn]

It is an abdication of leadership for US Soccer to just throw their hands up and say, you decide. I'm not sure what "reasonable flexibility" means for things like tournaments or State Cup. Clubs have to be on the same system. Most of these teams have tryouts every Spring, so the mechanism to change the teams to one system or another already exist. Also, now kids will have this hanging over their heads for a whole year. It WILL impact playing time and player decisions made by coaches and clubs, but it will just be far from uniform. Super bummed with their whole approach here. It is kind of grabage.

[@CoachRorySoccer]

💯

[@coachbjorn]

@@CoachRorySoccer It is the kind of decision that reeks of self-interest. I wonder if folks on the Board have players who would be impacted or if they were lobbied by popular/powerful friends against doing the thing that was clearly in the best interest of the majority. That kind of smells like the US Soccer we've seen in the past.

[@MrCoolmusclecar]

I agree, but I also see why the language is not specific. Part of the challenge with the way the birth year was implemented was because it was a "mandate." What a leader should do is own their mistakes, and it should be communicated as such. I think the US soccer community would better understand if the topic was approached as undoing a wrong decision and the way the poor decision was handled. The idea of not mandating a hard cut is fine . I wish it was accompanied by explaining that the way the birth year mandate was put in place was bad idea, and that the US Soccer wants to approach the resolution with more sanity this time around. The "reasonable flexibility" is a head scratcher.

[@eugeniussoccer]

I get all the management admin bla bla bla but what’s best for the individual player?

[@CoachRorySoccer]

This^^^ 💯

[@crwfabrication8350]

And there in lies the problem. Since it is not possible to have different rules to benefit each and every individual player we have to have rules that benefit the greatest amount of players. Not the .00001 percent that will go onto professional soccer, not the 10 percent who move up from rec league to club, but the masses. Rules are for the 99 percent of children who just love to play the game.

[@JW-th2dw]

If you go by grade, then kids that were held back during Covid are playing with younger and often smaller kids just because they’re in the same grade. That’s the main reason I prefer birth year. But maybe I’m missing something overall.

[@CoachRorySoccer]

Being held back wouldnt matter. It’s still by a set year range just now August 2013-July 2014 for example. Instead of Jan 2014-Dec 2024.

[@JW-th2dw]

Some of the leagues here are birth year and some are grades. For the ones that are grades you could be a 2015 born kid but still in 3rd grade playing against 3rd graders born in 2016 for example. Ultimately there is no perfect system

[@michaeljameshill3729]

It isn't what you are thinking, but I understand the confusion. If your kid fails 8th grade, they don't get to repeat u14. If a parent holds a kid back from starting kindergarten, they still have to play with the grade they were supposed to start school with, not their regular classmates.

[@caesarswgoh484]

How about school year for all but the highest leagues. State associations set what the months are recognizing that school cut offs will vary. Finally, if you’re hosting a regional tournament that will bring in multiple states, you make an informed decision based on the start dates of the neighboring states/clubs?

[@Noone-8010]

Classic current America. No one wants to make a decision so they can be held accountable.

[@brianhinkle5057]

Yes, I agree they should lead, this isn't leading at all, this is I don't want to rock the boat and take a stand. I agree to some extent organizations should be able to make their own decisions, but than that confuses when there is crossover with league play and tournament play, how do you organize those thing if everything makes a different decision?

[@CoachRorySoccer]

Yeah it’s going to be confusing.

[@ryansmith2480]

Changing to Birth year was an awful experience, it ripped apart our team and alienated friends and families of many years. For those that didn’t live through this, please understand it was a terrible experience.

[@briankim1626]

Yes, totally true. But changing back to school year will also rip up many teams for no real benefit. So just leave things as is.

[@crwfabrication8350]

@@briankim1626 just because we do something dumb currently doesn't mean we have to continue to do it into perpetuity making every generation after us suffer as well. Look at the big picture that will effect the millions after us, not the few right now.

[@briankim1626]

@@ryansmith2480 Hey Ryan, there are people on both sides who think think one system is great and the other system is dumb. My point is that the 2 systems are not really that different. The supposed “advantages” that people offer are really just hype and the REAL problem is the pain that comes from switching from one system to the other. Why go through all that pain for a second time for no real benefit?

[@briankim1626]

My son is 14. Most of the players in the US are too young to have played under both systems. Most have only known birth year. And many parents/coaches/administrators are talking about big “advantages” that school year had over birth year. I can tell you that it is all hype. The playing experience on the ground is the same for the kids. The benefits of switching are a mirage. The pain of switching is not worth it. And, to be clear, I would have said the same thing in 2017. (Back then I would have said that we should not have switched to birth year.)

[@Tundey]

I have a different take. The US is far too wide to imagine a single registration system will suit everyone. If I'm a kid in California playing rec soccer, why should my team formation be determined by what also works for competitive soccer in, say, Maryland? I think regions/states should make the decision. Maybe one system for Rec and one for competitive. But there's no good reason all kids in 50 states must use the same system. We don't even have the same school year or the same soccer calendar. For example, here in Maryland soccer is Fall and spring. Winter is usually indoors and no much happens in the summer. Tryouts are held in late May/June. I'm sure Texas doesn't use that calendar since they're able to play year-round. As for comparisons with countries in Europe, that's not a like for like cos America is huge! Countries like France and UK are tiny compared to us. Ultimately, like you said, this wasn't the most pressing problem to solve. It seems to me that a power center thought they could push it through and ultimately met resistance and backed off.

[@CoachRorySoccer]

Agreed. But again US Soccer could take the lead on this. Having every league make their own decision I think will be problematic

[@Tundey]

@CoachRorySoccer yeah, league by league will be a mess. I suspect the regional orgs will take the lead and set the rules for rec and competitive teams. For example, I can't imagine Maryland having different rules than Virginia, DC and maybe even PA/NJ.

[@CoachRorySoccer]

@ this is the region of the country I work in and just going from PA to NJ to MD right now there are issues. Ref fees, rules etc. Don’t need another curveball.

[@Tundey]

@@CoachRorySoccer I agree. This is why they should have left well enough alone. And why I think a power block wanted it, thought they had enough juice to make it a fait accompli, only to run into their Waterloo at the last minute. As a parent and a coach, outside of the high cost, refereeing is a bigger problem. Both in terms of standards and availability. The use of head-to-head as the first tiebreaker irks me. It should be GD. And girls leave the sport in droves as they get older. To the point where some U15+ teams can barely fill a roster. They might wanna look into that too.

[@CoachRorySoccer]

@ we need you on USSF board!!

[@coach-brandon-fcd]

They basically kicked the can down the road. To say myself and my club were dissappointed would be an understatement. The idea of USYS and US Club possibly doing different systems in the future is not optimal for us as we have teams in both - top teams in NPL/ECNL and lower teams that play in USYS-sanctioned leagues because we don't have lower US Club leagues in our area. Utter nonsense. It would have just been better for them to pick one way or the other. Rip the band-aid off or don't.

[@CoachRorySoccer]

Totally agree.

[@DavidPetrous]

Agreed Coach. Can you do a live podcast on replacement for Skip Gilbert? We need new and better leadership.

[@CoachRorySoccer]

Sure. I mean the multiple governing bodies and leagues are a huge part of the problem. US soccer does not need to consult these people to make a decision. IMO.

[@DavidPetrous]

@ You’re spot on as usual. Skip Gilbert can’t define the problems in youth soccer. He believes we are behind the rest of the world because our best athletes play football and basketball. I think he is out of touch and more concerned about buying time to keep his job. Thanks for all you do.

[@gumergalvan2284]

It’s not as bad as I thought, but also not what I wanted 😅 lol

[@crwfabrication8350]

As a city recreation league coach 10U, 12U, and 14U, in a tri-city area (Cary, Apex, Holly Springs in NC) where soccer is dominant with huge participation numbers in both schools, recreation leagues, and clubs, the age cut off matters. Going back to the school calendar age cut off will greatly advance soccer as a whole in the long term. Let me explain. First, my biased opinion, the 12U age group is the single most important age group because this is where kids either continue to play rec, move on to club, or quit. This is the last age group where future US World Cup players made the decision to keep playing soccer (likely entering a club of some sort) rather than move on to another sport they also love. This is where we as adults must provide the environment where they continue to LOVE playing soccer and thus continue on or… quit because they get tired of getting beat down by huge kids who should have moved up four months ago. It is at this age group where older players begin to hit puberty, the older 7th graders who are… were… on my team physically dominated over other team’s smaller 5th graders when we were on the Jan 1st cut off. They were over 12” taller and 50 pounds of muscle stronger. This is not an exaggeration. To say moving to the school calendar date cut off is only moving the goal post is not exactly accurate. Growth rates of young boys are not linear. Once boys hit puberty they grow in size and strength exponentially. When we had the Jan 1st date cut off, my 7th grade son in 12U was 5’7” and 140 pounds (and he wasn’t even the biggest kid on the field) while also in 12U, my smallest player in the 5th grade, who had phenomenal footwork and field awareness for his age, was only 4’9” and 75 pounds. My little player ended up finishing the season and never came back, he went on to compete successfully in track at school. Thankfully we now use August 31st as our age cut off. How does this help? It helps because the biggest kids, generally the oldest kids, will move up to the next age group four months earlier. Those last four months at that age matter! Some will say now you just have smaller kids moving up sooner to the 14U age group. Yes, but think about WHO moves up to 14U in recreational soccer. By now, those who are going to be future professionals are not staying in recreational soccer any longer. I’ve identified my best players by the second season in 12U (we have four seasons in each age group) and have helped them move up to club teams. Unfortunately I lost two amazing tiny players after their first season in 12U because they were tired of getting creamed by huge players, players that would have otherwise moved up to club I believe if we had school year rules. They never played long enough for their parents to be convinced that bank rolling the price of a used car for club fees was worth it. (That’s a whole topic in of its self!) And I argue that they would not have developed such a negative attitude towards soccer if they weren’t tossed around by kids basically twice their size. I know I’m long winded by stay with me for this last point! What US Soccer and the rest of us should do, in my opinion, is get together with ALL the sports organizations that are played in schools and lobby the Department of Education to have a universal age and DATE cut off for the entire United States in all our school districts. This age cut off does not change when a school starts, only the age in which a US child can enter kindergarten in public schools, say August 1 of their fifth birthday. We need to sell this to them for reasons other than this would be great for kids who play sports and great for sports administrators. To sell this to the US Department of Education or the individual state’s DOE, we need to show them that this would aid in stability and the chance of academic success when moving to a new school district, it enhances equity and consistency, reduces disparities particularly among disadvantaged families that move from state to state, aid in improved academic outcomes as children are more aligned with academic content when moving to a new school of a different age cut off, reduce grade repetition of those transferring to new schools out of sync with the previous school, all this contributing to higher graduation rates, higher grade point averages upon graduation, potential reduced cost to families, reduced behavior issues, reduce red shirting by parents who seek out districts that allow them to work the system to miss the age cutoff giving their child an additional year over their peers, constancy for military families who have to move often, etc. Some of these I spit-balled off the top of my head but you get the idea… sell this to the DOE for reasons they care about. As a result, the second order effect is that all of our players from across the entire United States will be on a level playing field. Just make both schools and soccer Aug 1st (or what ever date). This bigger picture benefits us all.

[@CoachRorySoccer]

Thank you for sharing!

[@GroversBathtub]

It sounds like in your league, kids play in two-year brackets? In other words, your U12 team is both U12 and U13? It seems like separating the kids into single-year brackets would take care of a lot of the problems that you describe.

[@briankim1626]

I’m so sorry but I agree with Coach Rory. Any 12 month cut-off will have a mix of big kids and little kids in the same bracket. Doesn’t matter if the cutoff is Jan 1, Feb 1, or Mar 1, etc. Whatever cutoff you pick you are just putting some kids on one side and other kids on the other side. Moving to school year will just put a different group of small kids at the bottom of the bracket…

[@CoachRorySoccer]

@@briankim1626 💯

[@crwfabrication8350]

@@GroversBathtub yes, we do play in two year brackets. The problem here is that city completely relies on volunteer coaches with no compensation, I assume most other city rec leagues do as well. As a result, we never have enough coaches and usually in the last week before registration closes there is a frantic plea for anyone to volunteer or some teams will not have a coach. Forget doubling the number of needed coaches by doing single year brackets. Based on the number of players who want to play, we could easily support single year brackets for the 9,10,11 year brackets. By 12 most of our best players move onto club or school teams exclusively.

[@boardandbikecam]

Complete lack of leadership. Sums up why we don't achieve the results we want on the international stage. More importantly ignores how the change contributes to increased attrition rates starting in middle school when social connections are of primary importance to the players

[@CoachRorySoccer]

Well said.

[@JohnDoe-iv1go]

Good video. It's just too bad that your opinions weren't reflected when Jurgen Klinsman and his mob forced this down everyone's throats seven years ago down to kindergarten rec. They didn't care about all the teams that would be broken up (including the two rec teams I coached at the time). Shame on them for this mess.

[@spartacusurf3]

So basically US Soccer did nothing. It’s such a waste of time. Although I’m not opposed to letting leagues choose for themselves. There also needs to be some uniformity. They could have just made this so incredibly simple… - Recreation soccer by school year. - Competitive soccer by birth year. Done. 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@CoachRorySoccer]

We need you on USSF board. 💪🏻

[@Doomclown]

School year seems logical but 8/1 seems like a late cut-off. More July birthdays I know are the oldest kids in their grades rather than younger, so 7/1 would be a more logical cut-off. It's easier to play up (difficult) than to play down (illegal) so it would be better to err toward an earlier date to keep kids with their friends.

[@michaeljensen4095]

This is a reasonable concern but I don’t know how to cover all circumstances. Many school districts in NorCal are starting to force people to have boys (and girls, of course) in the grade they are “supposed” to be in rather than holding them back, but I know of plenty June birthdays held back in schools with a Sept 1 cut off. I supposed you could say July 1, 2014 through July 31 of 2015 for example and catch most current 4th graders and July 1, 2013 to July 31, 2014 for 5th graders (I coach 2014s so using this as an example) and the tweezers in July could basically play either up or down?

[@Doomclown]

@@michaeljensen4095 Yeah basically. I don't really see any point to trying to set the cut-off as late as possible, so why not let the July kids play with their friends. OTOH I don't have any hard data to know how widespread this issue is, maybe it's limited to my school district for all I know.

[@michaeljensen4095]

@@Doomclown It’s definitely not limited and it goes beyond a given school or district; I think it is an added challenge for different grades to integrate beyond the variability of development between kids within a 12 month age gap even if all the kids are from different schools. The boys I coach are almost all from different schools and my age range is a mid-January birthday to a Dec 31 boy; I think the bigger issue is the 4th versus 5th graders being at a different maturity level. (Sorry if I mistakenly hit the thumbs-down when trying to give you a thumbs up!)

[@crwfabrication8350]

Chat GPT says that the most used school date is September 1st (50%), followed by August 31st (10%), then August 15th (7%), July 31st (6%), and then a multitude of dates in between them each with about 2%. Basically September 1st and August 31st is the same and together they are 60% of the U.S. I think it would be better to lobby congress to pass a bill making September 1st the official cut off date (nothing to do with the first day of school each year) in the United States. One country, one date. And also for all the reasons I stated in my post at the top.

[@bretthadley2043]

So again we have a lack of leadership and direction. No matter what happens my 1 son will remain on his same team so 🤷. This really only affects my youngest son so we are almost done (survived) club soccer

[@CoachRorySoccer]

Yep.

[@maxwellmeyer6482]

it's sooooooooooooo dumb, just switch to school year because 99.9999999999999999% of kids play to hang out with their friends.

[@Tusholt83]

That is not why kids play. What are you smoking? Your experience is not others. 😂😂😂

[@rockj8197]

Agree. That’s my experience too.

[@MattTrump075]

Recreational leagues could totally be school year based, but any competitive club team should really go by birth year. Those players are there to get better and can make friends with like minded players allowing those children to be better socialized for the future where they may be on a team where they know no one and somehow have to figure out how to form team relationships.

[@briankim1626]

I never understood the “play with friends” argument. Pre-2017 (when we used school year) there were always new kids on my son’s teams. Post-2017 (when we used birth year) there were always old friends in my son’s teams. Under both systems there was always a mix of old friends and new. And my son practiced and played with the new players and became friends with them. I don’t know why people think that school year = play with friends and birth year does not…

[@ssam143]

School calendar year