US Torpedo Battleships - Guide 379

The torpedo battleships, un-built designs of the United States Navy, are today's subject.
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[@Drachinifel]

Pinned post for Q&A :)

[@vikkimcdonough6153]

What warship in history had armor making up the greatest percentage of its empty displacement - both overall, and for each type of armor (e.g. iron, compound, homogenous nickel steel, Harvey, Krupp non-cemented, Krupp cemented)?

[@willyvereb]

@@vikkimcdonough6153 Probably the Bismarck or some super dreadnought? Turtleback armor design alone was responsible for some 10,000 tonnes increase compared to modern all or nothing armor scheme battleships. I'm awaiting Drach to chime in, though.

[@bkjeong4302]

You’ve mentioned when answering a previous question of mine that the Shokakus actually had more hangar space than the Yorktowns, and that they only carried slightly fewer aircraft due to American naval aircraft having more compact folding wings and the Yorktowns using deck parking. If one was to try to operate American naval aircraft from the Shokakus, how many aircraft (using aircraft available in 1942) could fit on a Shokaku? Assume that you have to try to fit in fighters, dive bombers and torpedo bombers in similar ratios as to what the Japanese usually went with.

[@scottmason2557]

Which ships during the period the channel covers do you think would have received the World of warships ""Devastating Strike"" award? The only ships that come to my mind are Bismarck and maybe Derfflinger...

[@admiral5113]

to what extant if at all were naval morters used?

[@mitchm4992]

Torpedo /battleships/? We must never let the crew of the Kamchatka watch this video.

[@tomarmadiyer2698]

*Kamchatka sweats profusely*

[@scooterdescooter4018]

::screams from a watery grave:: "i toooold you alllll! you wouldnt litstttten!

[@robertpainter8044]

Do you see torpedo boats???

[@MapletreePaper]

Kamchatka: I fear no man, but that *thing.* It scares me.

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

😅

[@nerobernardino88]

...Good lord, Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts wasn't smoking some crack.

[@birbfromnotcanada]

The AI designs are still using more than the whole of South America

[@redshirt5126]

US navy: "Cocaine is a hell of a drug."

[@andrewreynolds4949]

They were, but someone in the USN was as well

[@TBone-bz9mp]

Whatever we imagine someone else has already come up with something even more insane.

[@thecommunistparty1917]

My campaign be going fine then boom, 37 knots battlecruiser with 17 inch guns and enough armor to shrug off shells from a CL

[@WalterReimer]

"Rush." At 20 knots or so. Ah, how times have changed.

[@afriendofafriend5766]

"At 20 Knots or So" is my favorite Rush song.

[@RCAvhstape]

@@afriendofafriend5766 At the Speed of Love

[@hajoos.8360]

@@RCAvhstape much faster than all merchantmen at this age....passenger liners like the Titanic achieved 24 knots max speed.

[@klade5031]

@@hajoos.8360 To be fair, 20 knots will still give a lot of modern merchantmen a run for their money. Container ships and car carriers can outrun it but bulk carriers and tankers can still be caught.

[@hajoos.8360]

@@klade5031 One of the fastest windjammers is the "Mir", with 19,4 knots top-speed at good winds...

[@warmstrong5612]

Then they figured out that hiding their torpedo armed vessel underwater was the most practical way to go.

[@glenchapman3899]

I am not sure of the practicality of an underwater torpedo battleship 🙃

[@molybdaen11]

Sadly it come with the downside of having big rooms open for flooding and the danger of torpedo explosions when hit. That's why Torpedos were removed from all German battleships after the clash with the British navy.

[@CiaranMaxwell]

@@molybdaen11 I read that as British _army_ for a second there.

[@pachpach6101]

@@molybdaen11which clash? I have never heard of this

[@stuartaaron613]

@@pachpach6101Jutland? SMS Lutzow sank in no small part due to flooding of at least one of its torpedo rooms.

[@argokarrus2731]

A "Torpedo Battleship" seems to be more or less what your HMS Thunder Child design would've evolved into when people made more of her after the Martian War.

[@shem6844]

Where was this?

[@mr.dalerobinson]

@@shem6844search KZbin for “the great Martian war (1913-1917)” and enjoy the alt history rabbit hole.

[@mochiidabrochii]

war of the worlds his video on the thunderchild: kzbin.info/www/bejne/poKlpqGabdp_o9Esi=e3StkMyzTM97Tj3U

[@abyssaljam441]

"Sir, how many torpedo tubes should the ship have?" ... "More!"

[@adventuresinmodelrailroading]

I'm sure there was plenty of eye rolling and muttering of the phrase "here we go again " whenever Scofield brought the subject up.

[@glenchapman3899]

Yeah he had one idea, and he was convinced it was a damn good idea lol

[@adventuresinmodelrailroading]

@@glenchapman3899 and he kept turning up like a bad penny.

[@grimlock1471]

​@glenchapman3899 On the other hand, Rickover had one idea, and he was convinced it was a good one.

[@TheSchultinator]

​@@grimlock1471 His idea at least had broader application and a far more sound basis.

[@foximacentauri7891]

@@glenchapman3899 the world needs people like him. Sure there are dozens of people who have a crazy idea they won’t give up on, but of these dozens one happens to work, and the guy who came up with that gets remembered in history as a visionary and a genius.

[@tobiasGR3Y]

Now I really wanna see Drach cover the proposed American "Shimakaze," that was basically a Fletcher or Allen M. Sumner with two 5-inchers and everything else a torpedo mount.

[@bkjeong4302]

Wait, WHAT? That’s even more ridiculous and nonsensical than Shimakaze (which at least had more DP guns than that).

[@neillindgren8992]

Given how bad American torpedos were in the early part of WW2, it’s just as well this design never took off. I’m surprised nobody at the Ordnance Bureau was prosecuted for the torpedo scandal.

[@DocArchon]

BuOrd was often used for connected officers. Politics reared its ugly head.

[@zachmdful]

@@neillindgren8992 We have investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing... once again...

[@leighbellouny3904]

@@zachmdfulAnd as there was no wrongdoing found in our investigation of… ourselves, we’ve granted promotions all around, and awarded medals with no due regard for merit! Bravo Zulu!

[@birbfromnotcanada]

“Torpedo battleships?!?!?!?!” -the crew of the Kamchatka upon seeing an island

[@poil8351]

or fishing boats

[@birbfromnotcanada]

@@poil8351 or water

[@timbrwolf1121]

"Torpedo battleships?" Whimpered the crew of the Kamchatka.

[@Kirk00077]

It really amuses me that the USN built a whole series of cruisers with no torpedoes at all, but were considering this exercise in lunacy only a decade or so earlier.

[@tomhenry897]

Someone retired and a new admiral took charge

[@jordanbrown4886]

16 torpedo tubes and 40 6" guns sounds like a fun way to chew up your enemies fleet screen of destroyers

[@lexington476]

The Star Trek nerd in me totally wanted to hear Drac quote Khan from Star Trek II "aft torpedoes, FIRE!" 🤓😎.

[@molybdaen11]

Or warship Voyager.

[@Zerox_Prime]

Ricardo Monteban's best, most convincing role... and he did it without "fine, Corinthian leather."

[@hawkeye5955]

​@@molybdaen11: There's a video that counted the number of torpedoes used by Voyager and the number went into negative. 😂

[@molybdaen11]

@@hawkeye5955 This is not suprising. In the very first episode they showed off a technology to replicate anything they want. If Voyager had to survive just from the starting ressources if would had not last longer then maybe half a jear at top.

[@tonyjanney1654]

Montalban appeared to be having so much fun chewing up the scenery in "Wrath of Khan". I don't think I have ever seen an actor enjoying his character as much as Montalban did in that movie. @@Zerox_Prime

[@Graham-ce2yk]

Thank you for covering these 'overgrown destroyers', from memory the Russians and Italian's also looked at this idea, their efforts might be worth looking at as well.

[@Bufoferrata]

The pre-WWI German navy as well. The Kaiser was obsessed with this concept for a while. despite the All-Highest's approval, Admiral Tirpitz dubbed this white elephant the "Homunculus" and kept shooting down all the proposed designs. Eventually Willy saw the light and gave up on the project. Tirpitz joyfully cabled the chief of naval construction: "The Homunculus is dead." See Massey's book Dreadnought for details.

[@williestyle35]

​@@Bufoferrata omg! Thank you for mentioning _Dreadnought_ by Robert K Massie, a book of history that I have enjoyed for years now.

[@RedXlV]

The Russian torpedo battleship design was quite ludicrous, with 84 fixed torpedo tubes (42 per side) firing 450mm torps...which had range settings of 3 to 6km. And the gun armament would've been 4x3 180mm/52 guns, so it would've been a "battleship" only in terms of size.

[@benjaminmiddaugh2729]

​@@RedXlV "How many torpedoes do you want?" "Yes."

[@Aereto]

What's missing is the Torpedo's range and detectability. Either go with Germany's Electric Torpedoes, or with Japan's Oxygen Torpedoes. What matters is Initiative: know where they are and make them scatter in panic. Give the Torpedo Battleship investment in smaller guns to rid the fleet of escorts. And do that with a fast battleship or battlecruiser.

[@heirofaniu]

Just the term "Torpedo Battleship" is enough to make me light headed from the sheer amount of blood being rushed into a particular lower extremity of mine.

[@tarab9081]

The torpedo battleship concept would eventually come back in the form of the nuclear attack submarine. Which is honestly probably what it takes to make it viable.

[@WildBillCox13]

"I see torpedo boats everywhere! Wait- I'm a torpedo boat, too! Greetings, friends!"

[@shaider1982]

As long as the torps don't perform like Mk14's, these seem interesting. Like a Shimakaze but with the armor to match the armament and admitedly way slower.

[@jwenting]

we're talking about BuOrd here, not the IJN's torpedo design department...

[@williestyle35]

Always enjoyable to see _Shimakaze_ mentioned. 😊

[@Wolfeson28]

Kitakami/Ooi

[@shaider1982]

​@@williestyle35 all those torpedo launchers make it look cool and the speed to match.

[@williestyle35]

@@shaider1982 yep

[@grimlock1471]

This may get me banished to the corner with the Azure Lane folks, but this concept reminds me of HMS Fearless from the first Honor Harrington book. It's almost like David Weber did some homework...

[@Maddog3060]

I had the same thoughts when I watched the video. "Sounds a lot like Horrible Hemphill's idea."

[@barbaros99]

I mean, it *did* win.

[@edwardcook2973]

Sounds like the cruisers Oi and Kitakami of the Imperial Japanese navy. They were each refit around 1940 with 4 x 5.5inch guns in two twin mounts and 40 x 24inch torpedo tubes in ten quadruple mounts, five per side.

[@katrinapaton5283]

Damn, and I thought my RtW cruiser with 24 torpedo tubes was good. Clearly must try harder!

[@bryangrote8781]

"Damn, all we have are torpedoes! Full speed ahead!"

[@artwebb6939]

Given that letting water in at the bottom tends to be quite effective at sinking ships compared to letting air in at the top Best laugh I've had so far today, Classic Drach

[@bkjeong4302]

On a serious note this is why battleships were often rather inefficient at sinking each other, and why torpedo bombers tended to require far fewer hits on a battleship to sink her.

[@Theranthrope]

@@bkjeong4302 On the US Navy's study on the sinking of IJN Musashi; torpedo bombers are most effective if they attack one side of the target battleship as in Musahi's case, the attacks on the other side acted as counter-flooding, which stabilized her before she started going down at the bow.

[@TBone-bz9mp]

Note to self; issue crew with super soakers.

[@artwebb6939]

@@TBone-bz9mp 🤣

[@bkjeong4302]

@@Theranthrope Even if they hit from both sides it will still take far fewer hits to kill a battleship with torpedo bombers than with another battleship, and the Yamatos aren’t exactly your usual battleships in terms of durability (even if you take their poor TDS into account).

[@1977Yakko]

A Japanese version of this that could reach fast battleship speeds armed with Long Lance torpedoes might be interesting.

[@jwenting]

indeed. Or what about torpedo projectors instead of the main battery. Basically a rocket propelled Long Lance, shoot it out to 10.000 yards on the rocket charge, after which it submerges and swims another 10.000 yards at high torpedo speed. ASROC avant la letre, but against surface ships instead of submarines.

[@RCAvhstape]

Now the next stage of evolution would be torpedo zeppelins: flying torpedo battleships!

[@Ralph-yn3gr]

The Germans actually designed a wire-guided torpedo armed glider for use on zeppelins. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_torpedo_glider

[@molybdaen11]

​@@Ralph-yn3grNow that looks like the ancestor of the fritz bomb.

[@scooterdescooter4018]

final evolution: Space Battleship: Missouri.

[@williestyle35]

​@scooterdescooter4018 Space Battleship Yamato* ( _Starblazers_ fans would understand)

[@SnakebitSTI]

That level of torpedo obsession is more like something out of Crest of the Stars lol

[@pitsnipe5559]

Never heard of this before, very interesting. Sounds like a solution that was looking for a problem.

[@grahamstrouse1165]

A century later it would resurface as the LCS…

[@wlewisiii]

That is the case of the vast majority of miltary projects - constructed or not.

[@shannonrhoads8256]

That does make it a perfect Navy project...

[@user-fv5ms4sz8e]

The USS Texas on her 120th birthday, was taken out of drydock and floated to a nearby dock to finish her repairs, repainting, and refitting. As this occurs, a new and final Home Port is being constructed, where she will resume her mission as a museum battleship. The rudder apparently is never going to be unstuck and placed in a straight position.

[@clpfox470]

I still say they should flood the gear compartment with pb blaster, if that doesn't get the rudder unstuck nothing will

[@BishopStars]

Gotta say, in UAD, max armor and speed light cruisers with all deck torpedoes and no main guns is pretty effective against cruiser and BB fleets in the aughts.

[@charlescdt6509]

Sea Lord Drach giving World of Warships ideas I see.

[@airplanenut89]

Doubt WG would add this. Early 1900s designs are pretty much T1-6 so adding this would mean WG would have to put effort into making those tiers fun again. If it was added it would probably just be another T8 punching bag for T9-not 11. Shame though. So many fun looking designs form this time period, and I'd like to see more reasons to bring Mikasa back out.

[@charlescdt6509]

@@airplanenut89 They put torps on a Brit BBs, I can see them doing this just like they did a line of Kearsarge's. Its basically Kitakami with early BB guns.

[@derrickstorm6976]

​@@airplanenut89yea ever heard of Jäger or the European DD line? Lol

[@aslamnurfikri7640]

Basically Kitakami on steroids

[@VersusARCH]

Oi

[@DaremoKamen]

When you move outside of the channel's range into the cold war, you could argue that the proposals for guided missile battleships were a modern take on torpedo battleships and that guided missile cruisers were a modern take on torpedo cruisers. Even in channel range you could at an extreme stretch argue that aircraft carriers are torpedo cruisers.

[@katrinapaton5283]

Well, the Russians already claim their aircraft carriers are cruisers so they can sail through the Dardanelles so perhaps its not THAT much of a stretch?

[@Wick9876]

I can't buy that. Those just continued the trend of ever increasing weapon range. A torpedo battleship does the opposite, like a ship of the line armed only with carronades, or building a 16" gun(1) ship in the present day. (1)No funky vertically fired rocket boosted guided glide shells shall be mentioned.

[@tomhutchins7495]

Interesting how a lot of early 20th century admirals had identified the problem to which the SSGN would be the answer.

[@crimsonsplat]

Good God! Did you see the number of boilers on the third design? TWENTY-ONE!!!!!! Excessive machinery space, indeed.

[@edwardcook2973]

Consider that some of the later armoured cruisers had as many as 42 boilers, 21 actually sounds reasonable.

[@ManiusCuriusDenatus]

5:15 That thing is an abomination. Those masts..

[@airplanenut89]

I quite like the birdcage masts, shame they were actually weak, and unstable leading them to topple over on multiple ships. Happy USS Colorado (BB-45) got to keep her forward birdcage.

[@ManiusCuriusDenatus]

@@airplanenut89 Fair enough. I appreciate your commentary though we clearly disagree. Polite and forthright. That's why I like this community.

[@timschoenberger242]

Battle Carriers are next!!!

[@lexington476]

Somewhere we got to put oars on one of these ships too 😀.

[@karl3998]

Or Ramming-Dreadnoughts. Hell, by now i wonder if if Drach can find some lunatics plan for a boarding-cruiser intended to rush some other ship, sweep the deck clear with sharpnell and deploy troops via dropbridges.

[@chrissouthgate4554]

@@karl3998 He has already covered it, see the raid on Zeeburger.

[@Zerox_Prime]

IJN carriers launched torpedo planes ... far better than launching torpedoes. IJN Cruisers carried torpedoes, because their long Lance torpedoes were stealthy and devastating. After their torpedo strike, they would use their long guns. So, their enemy finds its ships being blown up without gunfire... then after being hit, the gunfire comes. American cruisers didn't waste deck space with crappy USN torpedoes. One problem with carrying long lance torpedoes was they were highly flammable and if it. they would explode, which explosions could sink the cruiser or destroyer carrying them.

[@Pink.andahalf]

At least one of the British hybrid Battleship/Carriers got built. Can't remember the name or where I heard about it.

[@stunick1573]

My first impression to the title was "Ah what?" styled to the theme of the fat guy in Jaws when Dreyfus says its a Tiger Shark.

[@malcolmtaylor518]

"Curious and curiouser," naval subjects. Never heard of these. Similar to ramming.

[@WyvernYT]

Does anyone know if there was any serious consideration of a torpedo boat carrier? The "torpedo battleship" seems to be an obvious non-starter, but I'd imagine someone at least ran some numbers on the possibility of carrying torpedo boats on larger and longer ranged vessels.

[@CharlesStearman]

Yes, that was actually tried. Drach has mentioned them in one or two videos (I forget which ones).

[@alaingadbois2276]

The French navy had the cruiser Foudre to carry torpedo boats.

[@user-ui4hs6xh1s]

Yeah, there was not only consideration but even produced TB "motherships" that carry up to 12 (or even more) TBs that were not seaworthy enough to be considered autonomous vessels, and even non-specialised ships like battleships or cruisers sometimes carried a few TBs. But idea died out when true destroyer became reality.

[@alt5494]

Ultra long range torpedos with analog passive homing is a interesting what if. Beyond 12 miles ships are hidden by the curve of the earth. As well as a anti ship torpedo homing head only needs to steer in a single plane.

[@williestyle35]

1:06 "... they were back on the grounds that torpedoes had extended their rage to match expected battleship gun ranges, then *around 3000 yards* ..." Ahh, so in this era battleships were close enough to each other that sailors could "read" the names and signal flags of opposing ships. Go to know everything was nice and cozy during expected ship to ship combat on the seas. 🙃

[@redrockengineer]

I never knew battleships had torpedoes until one of the USS Texas restoration videos showed the torpedoes room.

[@brianbalster3521]

given that letting water in the bottom.. vs letting air in the top. Keep 'em coming Drach!

[@Tinyuvm]

The 1907 BB look like something I would do in Ultimate Admiral Dreadnought 😂

[@thomasknobbe4472]

Ah! You have answered the question I keep forgetting to ask: Why put holes in your hull to fire torpedoes out of, when you could easily put those torpedoes on the deck? Because your hull is much better protected, and those torpedoes are much less likely to go boom when someone starts shooting at you. Everything on a ship has a reason.

[@Shatterwings060]

This is the type of silliness that I expect from paper generals and desk jockeys.

[@dandel351]

Perfect ship for World of Warships. They'll be in the next update I'm sure .

[@jonsouth1545]

at 27knots with 6 14inch guns and 8 torpedo tubes and pretty heavy armour as shown at 3:55 such a design would arguably have made a much more effective ship than the early Lexington class designs it would be kind of like an American Renown class

[@bullettube9863]

It was also mentioned at the time that a fleet of battleships would be accompanied by cruisers and destroyers also armed with torpedoes, which meant the torpedo battleship needed to be heavily protected underwater as well. The advances in torpedo range and lethality was a huge topic for fleet designers and strategists much as the emergence of deadly anti-ship missiles was in the 1970s. Of course the real solution was to build fast submarines!

[@jameshigh6481]

"We HAVE to build armored torpedo ships. I mean, it's not like you can hang one off the bottom of one of those newfangled aeroplanes."

[@user-hw1qo2mu9e]

Thanks Drach.

[@seanbigay1042]

Switch guided missiles for torpedoes and the torpedo battleships of the 1910s sound a lot like the arsenal ships of the 1990s.

[@leftcoaster67]

Wild design.

[@stitch626aloha]

In other words, Shoefield was OBSESSED with the USS Monitor...

[@jasonz7788]

thanks drach!

[@NigelDeForrest-Pearce-cv6ek]

Fascinating!!!!

[@paramounttechnicalconsulti5219]

You answered a question I have never before asked: So THAT'S who Schofield Barracks, Hawaii, was named after!

[@theworkshopwhisperer.5902]

These guys are playing shipyard champions at this point.

[@molybdaen11]

This must have been the inspiration for „Warship Voyager”. And 100 jears later they really equipped a warship with long range torpedos/rocket's.

[@WayneMoyer]

It got lost in the Delta quadrant though.

[@molybdaen11]

@@WayneMoyer Warship Voyager was a episode about a propaganda version of Voyager with a lot of torpedo tubes. And the Iowa battleships got long range rockets later.

[@bdrexjr]

Hi Drach, I have a ship for you to do. My first duty station as Weapons Tech in 1990 was the USS Fulton AS-11, a sub tender in New London, CT. As it happened I was also part of the decommissioning crew. Interestingly after departing the ship for the last time, my next duty station was the USS Roosevelt CVN-71 so I went from the Sub surface Navy to Air Corp all in one enlistment which was pretty cool.

[@albertoswald8461]

What was your rate? GM? MT? AO? FC?

[@BastuGubbar]

You do have to wonder of the possibilities of one of these ships being converted to an aircraft carrier after the navy realized what a mistake they were. The drawings show a flush deck and some designs having two turrets or even less, being very similar to the Courageous-class battlecruiser.

[@williamgreen7415]

Thanks!

[@isaaclove1144]

I'm firmly reminded of the Mon Calamari MC30C from Star Wars Empire at War Forces of Corruption I think the ship was a frigate but it's job was nonetheless to rush into a fight and unload loads of proton torpedoes

[@mrshar1000]

Super interesting! Is it possible to get a video talking about underwater torpedo tubes(Specifically WW1 and pre dreadnought era)? Keep up the great work!

[@charlespfaff6585]

Combine this with the Mark 14 👍

[@lexington476]

Then make sure you go for lots of extra and redundant torpedo tubes and torpedo storage. As if you're going to use Mark 14s, you're going to have to go for a Macross missile spam... I mean Macross torpedo spam 😀😃😄.

[@derrickstorm6976]

​@@lexington476ok but how would torpedo storages be useless?

[@hanzzel6086]

​​@@lexington476Nah, just wait 2-3 years for a certain Admiral threaten to kick the Bu'Ords ass and get it fixed, then use what was now easily the second* best torpedoes in the world! *of course the Long Lance is notably better.

[@captaincharlemagne]

Welp we know we get here eventually. But with what I heard of Beatty wanting to do to I believe the Eagle. I’m shocked the U.K didn’t come up with this idea of the torpedo battleships

[@steventoby3768]

Well, this is completely new to me. Torpedo battleships -- sounds like a contradiction in terms.

[@SoloRenegade]

WW1 version of an Arsenal ship

[@treyhelms5282]

Some british battleships in WW2 had torpedoes.

[@Dave_Sisson]

The Nelson class battleships had very large torpedoes. HMS Rodney hit Bismarck with at least one.

[@steventoby3768]

@@treyhelms5282 Yes, this is true, in fact, I think HMS Rodney actually launched a torpedo against the Bismarck in that last battle, which would be in 1941? But there's a difference in tactical doctrine and design standards between USN and RN. The US deleted torpedoes from capital ships comparatively early, and by WW II, most cruisers didn't carry any torpedoes either. (The antiaircraft cruisers might have been an exception and had torpedoes). Most European navies, on the other hand, kept their battleships and cruisers equipped with torpedoes, and the torpedo was a major feature of Japanese warships. This difference in practice was the result of an opinion in the Bureau of Ordnance that torpedo warheads and propellants were too great a danger of accidental detonation in action. I'm not sure if recent analyses have concluded that was or wasn't correct; I don't recall a particular instance of a battleship being damaged by an explosion or fire of her own torpedoes.

[@treyhelms5282]

@@steventoby3768 So what's the point is response to my post?

[@ivanconnolly7332]

Had they been built, might they have been suitable for conversion to aircraft carriers.

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

Where are you going to put hangers with all that machinery space?

[@airplanenut89]

@@WALTERBROADDUSLooking at the drawings, the machinery spaces are below the water line, and without much of a superstructure, there isn't as much to strip off for conversion. Without the need for torpedo rooms, these could be re-purposed as magazines, fuel tanks, or extra space to shift/add machinery. From there you build the ship up like Kaga, Akagi, or the Lexington Class. The hangars would be above the machinery, not intermingled so the only real complication with fitting the hanagrs is truncating the exhaust to maximize hangar space. That of course has been done for every carrier that runs on a combustible fuel source. I'd say the biggest limiting factor would be the ship's width instead of machinery space as building too high on a thin hull form would just make it unstable.

[@ivanconnolly7332]

With all the torpedo nonsense removed.@@WALTERBROADDUS

[@derrickstorm6976]

​@@ivanconnolly7332you would have hangars are the stern and aft of the ship, and as deep down as possible?

[@ivanconnolly7332]

Glorious was a converted Battle cruiser, less , conversion involved the removal of all upper works turrets a torpedo battleship necessitated only the creation of hangar spaces by removing the torpedo nonsense.@@WALTERBROADDUS

[@knightofavalon86]

This seems like the pre dreadnought USS Defiant.

[@joshuahadams]

A bit closer to USS Crazy Horse. The Akiras had _fifteen_ torpedo tubes all across their hulls instead of the four fore and two aft on the Defiants.

[@knightofavalon86]

@@joshuahadams that's a good point

[@kennethdeanmiller7324]

I almost pee'd myself when I saw the subject line! My question is, how much was this man getting paid to keep coming up with these torpedo battleship designs? And were they asking him to come up with these designs just to give him something to do or what? And although the "torpedo battleship" never made it past the design stage.. thank God. However, to all of you laughing and coming up with ever more digs I want you to consider one thing. They go ahead and they build one torpedo battleship AND THEY MAKE Captain Evans from the Johnston her Captain. Now what happens??? Sometimes ideas aren't the best of ideas. Clearly. However, a ship is only as good as the determination of the Captain & crew!

[@duwop544]

Love these oddball dead ends, French or otherwise.

[@mitchwatson6787]

Leeroy Jenkins-Class

[@SteamCrane]

He almost had it right. A battleship armed with a large number of torpedo tubes, no guns, and the ability to sink below the surface, and later come back up to the surface. It just might work...

[@tokencivilian8507]

If ever such a ship was built and went into battle, we all know what would happen when said torps were actually fired.

[@maxkennedy8075]

Kitakami but instead of being based on a Kuma class light cruiser its built on a US standard battleship Tillman levels of cursed

[@grondhero]

I must admit, I wish we were able to see a torpedo battleship/battle cruiser just to see if they were just crazy or found an unconventional eureka moment.

[@freeshrugs7069]

We'll call them "yeet boats" christening the first of her class, "USS Leroy Jenkins"

[@issacrice4025]

The wreck of the Kamchatka shivers😂

[@Belligerent_Herald]

It’s fascinating how many times the concept of capital ships with specialized armaments keeps popping up through history. I’d be interested in a video discussing whether any of them were successful.

[@michaelbarnard8529]

They sort of skipped over the fact that the turbine drive of the Dreadnought mark a change from ships more or less turning their engines off to fire, to being able to fire on the move.

[@aland7236]

This endeavor appears to have gone on for quite a while, during which it would seem the existence of a submarine was forgotten about.

[@RCAvhstape]

Submarines were so slow compared to surface ships, and couldn't ripple off so many torpedoes. A sub is more like a sniper while one of these is like a line formation of riflemen firing volleys,

[@molybdaen11]

Apart from the Norderstedt submarines (genius inventions) , they had been far to slow to be able to fight with the fleet.

[@aland7236]

Oh for sure submarines at the turn of the century we're incredibly slow. However water is a very effective armor against incoming artillery. They also have the benefit of being submerged where they are more difficult to see coming. Subs were compared to a sniper, today they very much are. They can also act as a well camouflaged rattlesnake waiting for an enemy to step (sail over/by) on them. A maneuverable, thinking, calculating sea mine.

[@airplanenut89]

@@aland7236Technological limitations of the day. Metallurgy wasn't as good so you won't dive very far, propulsion wasn't as good so either you won't keep up with the fleet, or your sub is so big, and stays on the surface for so long then you might have just built some destroyers in the time you used to figure out the submarine. Then of course there's quality of life on board. It was bad in WWI & less than ideal in WWII. Can't imagine what it would be like before that. I'm not saying you're points are wrong, I'm just stating why people weren't putting as much effort into subs at this time.

[@jonjennings1146]

'....water in the bottom works better then letting air in the top..." great line,... or maybe it was just the accent

[@geoguy001]

thanks...,I was waiting for this for quite a while...The proposed Russian version was even crazier.

[@geoguy001]

Russian Torpedo battleship proposals in ch 31 of McLaughlin's Russian and Soviet Battleships - 84 submerged tubes- from about the same era.

[@quietlistener7054]

I'll see your one torpedo battleship and raise you my small fleet of PT boats. Great idea ;)

[@ChristopherSloane]

Depending on range and accuracy dropping 12 to 24 torpedoes into a fleets formation would have decimated it or caused enough chaos to turn the tide of the fight imagine four of these ships dropping 48 to 96 torpedoes into a fleet and breaking off at 30 knots? by volume they would have sunk enough enemy ships to end the battle.

[@WayneMoyer]

Just the thought of this continuing into the MK 14 torpedo years. The Captains would have just parked their boats off of an atoll and waited things out.

[@riverraven7359]

Rodney and Hood both used torpedoes in battle against Bismarck so its not completely impractical. I imagine the Kongo's and Scharnhorst's could have been good platforms for a heavy torpedo armament.

[@Paleorunner2]

So a battleship sacrifices speed for armor and firepower. A Battlecruiser sacrifices armor for speed and firepower. This thing sacrifices firepower for armor and speed. I always wondered if something like this was looked into or built.

[@richardcutts196]

Good thing he didn't have access to long lance torpedoes. WoWS next gimmick, the hybrid torpedo/carrier battleship.

[@7thsealord888]

In my own experience, "Scofield" or "Schofield" are usually pronounced "SKO-field". Good stuff. I note that all this was being done around the same time that the Tillman Battleship designs were an actual thing (a favourite Drach video). My sadistic side wonders what any attempt to "hybridize" these two ideas could have led to. Likely VERY incompatible but, Lord knows, weirder combos were attempted both before and since then.

[@johngregory4801]

An idea that only the Long Lance could make (relatively) survivable.

[@snagletoothscott3729]

It's always amazing how those ship drafts always have such detailed numbers...from sketch thats less detailed then drawings I was making in grade in school. I dont understand how they get hose numbers from those drawings. it doesn't look like a draft. it looks like the document the navy gives to the designers stating what they want, not the designers showing the navy what they came up with.

[@Destroyer83]

In the end, it sounds and looks almost like super destroyers.

[@thepropagandastudiosbrigs0927]

this sounds like the time periods equivalent to the arsenal ship while staying within the time periods thinking.

[@calculusmaximus5078]

I kind of want to see a Torpedo Battleship fight a Submarine Aircraft Carrier now.

[@roykliffen9674]

In short: Let's build a Kamchatka nightmare.

[@Elkarlo77]

One might imagine the Horror if this concept would have survived into the Interwar Period. A 36 Knot fast Battleship with 2x3 16inch Turrets Forwards, rushing the Japanese, dodging several Torpedoes on their own, taking a beating and then firing 3 Quintuble Salvos of MK 14 Torpedoes, first the Horror of the Japanese when they see such a Torpedo Broadside at close range and then the Horror of the Torpedo Battleships crew, which gets 30 Dud Torpedoes for their efforts.

[@davesnothere.]

Torpedos. Ah, the original drone.

[@thinaphonpetsiri9907]

So it’s basically a YOLO boat?

[@Nebris]

geeze...

[@The_Viscount]

Can you imagine combining this with long lances? That could have actually worked, I think.