USAP Really needs to do something about GEN 3 Pickleball Paddles | Paddle Maker Explains all

[@kiwilabspickleball]

Important.🚨 Huge Gen 3 USAP Update 🚨This morning all manufacturers received an email inviting us to a meeting for the introduction of an exit velocity test ( coefficient of restitution ) … the meeting is May 20th. Of course I will keep you posted!

[@brandonssherr8818]

A bunch of paddles got banned today as well, the joola gen3 and the new paddletek as well, and a new governing body. Pickleball civil war time. This happened with powerlifting, a bunch of different federations with different rules that just makes things confusing

[@CoreTekPB]

More there maybe collusion

[@connelldan9]

any update?

[@CoreTekPB]

@@connelldan9 they're talking about introducing coefficient of restitution limits which are totally unnecessary and will pretty much limit what type of paddle designs are certifiable.

[@jamesscheuer8367]

Racquetball player here…. I’ve been watching the pickleball arms race closely, and keeping my fingers crossed that pickleball paddle technology doesn’t follow the same trajectory as we adopted in racquetball. Racquetball racquets became larger and ever more powerful over the years, to the point where rallies are much shorter and the game isn’t as enjoyable to the entry-level players as well as viewers. The intent was to make the game easier for players to generate power, but it had the opposite effect in terms of making the game enjoyable. Good players were able to generate so much power that the newer players get intimidated. In addition, the added power takes away some of the skill in “working the point”. Baseball has stayed with wooden bats for a reason too. Careful what we wish for in equipment innovations. Don’t mess with what made pickleball successful and enjoyable in the first place.

[@760Piper]

Appreciate your insight into this issue. You cut through all the hype and your honesty regarding paddle manufacturing is refreshing.

[@BenjaminAndersonPickleball]

I love the idea of experimenting more with gen 1.5. The Vatic prism is a very popular paddle. There are a lot of players out there getting gen 2 for the larger sweet spot on the paddle NOT the extra power/pot it gives. A gen 1.5 paddle would serve that market very well. Very interesting to hear your thoughts and perspective. Thanks for sharing!

[@tonym753]

I play with the hisks rav pro 1.5 and I like it better than my thermoformed paddles. I try and stay away from players using a gen3 paddle. It gives players an advantage which I don’t think is fair

[@MatthewKPickleball]

Dude! Absolutely awesome video! Your "failed" experiments with foam-filled cells in paddles look a lot like a paddle that's going to market. Mad respect for you all holding off until this all gets sorted. Keep doing what you're doing! Also, I wish you could be a guest on PB Studio's podcast. This perspective from a paddle company owner and paddle developer in conversation with him would undoubtedly yield invaluable insights to paddle junkies and nerds--plus, I imagine USAPA keeps a close eye on what he says; not fair you're being left in the dark; decisions gotta be made on their end!

[@SteveBrown-bo7qs]

Great summary. Been playing with G3 about two weeks. Like the feel and power. But yesterday tried the same paddle in G2 and was also impressed. Both a big step up from a 7.5 oz Vanguard. Yours is the first intelligent discussion I have seen. As a composite sales engineer for 30 years, one project was the use of discontinuous carbon fibers at Callaway Golf, ie Forged Composites. It is easy for me to understand paddle materials, construction and function as well as COR. Keep up the good work. It’s crazy out there. Note: At 72 and under 140 pounds, the power and feel of G3 really helps my game. It feel more like table tennis, which IMO is a good thing.

[@jmac430]

I don't understand how the crbn could've been banned years ago while this isn't?

[@danpiedra3910]

USPA decided to make a point and CRBN was targeted. It certainly seems silly today.

[@jimb6683]

Like your take on the current paddle market... Very interested in you new Gen1 with foamed edges paddle. Really think this sweet spot for the market... face it you see so many folks jump out with a power paddle that is holding them back as a player. Paddle market has become a sea of I can fix your game and dont see it changing.

[@pickleballpaddles]

I appreciate your transparency and the expertise you're providing to the public. I tested various density levels of open and closed cell urethane foams inside paddle cores a year and a half ago and quickly realized it wouldn't hold up to repeated impacts. I can't believe these companies went to market with this crap because surely their testing would have shown them the same thing.

[@TheThornton33]

Appreciate your humble and honest take. I think it’s very important that smaller manufacturers operate within their conscience. The sport is better for it.

[@brettwwarner1]

Good job explaining Gen 3… and R&D toward control is spot on

[@lorenhumphrey1252]

Golf regulates clubs and balls. Has anyone suggested that pickle balls be regulated? The game could be slowed down and spin increased and made more consistent with alternative materials and/or adjusting compounds resulting in less core crushing and paddle surface degradation. Just think how much fun the game could be if the ball could slice like a ping-pong ball and had a consistent bounce and roundness as a ball without holes. I would think nearly all paddle controversies could be resolved with the right ball. Your thoughts.

[@paulelkins425]

Great take on the new power paddles. It's annoying to play against obviously core crushed paddles and now they are designing them for this purpose m USAPA needs to implement a long overdue coefficient of restitution test to maintain what makes PB so much fun.

[@derrick031072]

Reason why manufacturers are looking for more powers is simple, most players don’t have the form of proper fh,bh, volleys… They need the paddle to generate power rather than their body. Manufacturers knowing that, simply offer what players are looking for.

[@Zack32796]

Market seems ready for harder paddles. Seems like the initial hardness of the joola gen 3 seems to be the consensus as the upper limit. Just with its qc issues it’s not worth it.

[@RichardsWorld]

I'd like to see someone experiment with making a paddle with the material called D30. Some uses are in knee and elbow pads. It is soft, but becomes hard when it is struck. It would be interesting to see how a pickleball paddle reacts with that material.

[@fedcordesign]

Interesting material.... although not sure the properties would be helpful for a paddle. In testing, the material would deflect (which USAP would reject), but in application the time the ball impacts the paddle is very short (making the material 'hard'). So why not simply use a hard material core? (Just my thought, but it's still very cool.)

[@jubbyju]

I've reviewed lots of paddles including the OM Aero1 and they are too rigid. I can generate power but resets and blocks need control

[@christopherahmed8961]

Awesome content. I watched other videos on this but enjoyee the logic and explanation you gave the best. I also liked your speculation part. It seems totally possible USAPA didn't cut open the gearbox or jola paddles. Seeing another video of those cut in half could have totally made USAPA start thinking "what have we done, we would never have let a paddle pass with this much foam if we new".

[@pickleballchumps]

Thanks for really dumbing this down for the rest of us. Love the transparency!

[@CoreTekPB]

I can think of another problem with the foamed cells except which is that when you bought them from that manufacturer they could not make them for your specifications its patented.

[@jamescowling2824]

You can't have a meaningful exit velocity test without a standardized ball!

[@49pickles]

They will eventually have to come down to a coefficient of restitution like baseball and golf. I’m just going to start playing with my tennis racket strung at 45.

[@KING_OF_KLUTCH]

New to the sport and just bought my first paddle [Pulsar fx R2] can anyone tell me if I made a good choice?

[@Bigred7642]

Forgive my ignorance, but I just bought the kiwi slice and it came with four rolls of tape. What is that tape for?

[@kiwilabspickleball]

That might have just been a freebie we tossed in there for you! It's our overgrip. You can wrap it over the existing grip and you can use it to keep the grip nice and tacky, add some color, and keep your main grip nice and clean :)

[@chubun6631]

Personally, I would like paddles with more spin not power. Even at pro level, many of the drives and speedups go long why need more power? Or when you watch tennis bangers like Sock or Duong playing singles on a good day, they have plenty of power to pass their opponent. It's just that on a bad day, they can't keep the ball on target. Spin will help shape the ball flight bath and give hard hitter a better margin for error.

[@mbr05c]

Well for starters, the power gives the advantage in hands exchanges, drives, and putaways. It messes up the game when everything becomes smash and crash though. I could even see getting rid of as far as CRBN 1x/2x power paddles. Also the game already has enough spin, the roughness limits are fine as is.

[@2musiclover534]

Liked. With your double foam similar to Joola, are they getting a patent that will prevent you from making this structure? Thanks.

[@kiwilabspickleball]

Our design is a little different, also it’s just a prototype, not something we’re bring to market

[@2musiclover534]

@@kiwilabspickleball Thanks. I'll say that I've never played with a paddle that performed like the Joola. Significant improvement to my game right from the first time in virtually every single metrics I can think of - power, pop, stability, spin. And no issues with control. My two sons and brother all have the same assessment for their games. Interestingly is the diversity of our styles but common agreement. That said, paddles are becoming too hot and it may dissuade beginners from joining the sport if they go up against people that can just laser shots at them. But while they are legal...difficult not to use it when it is simply so rewarding. Level of 3.5 to 4.5, all of us.

[@2musiclover534]

Liked. Question: What does a NOMEX core play like? What are the drawbacks? Curious why it is not more popular as a core.

[@kiwilabspickleball]

It is a popular core, it’s what’s in the onix z5. And a few prodrive paddles. They probably market it as Kevlar though.

[@2musiclover534]

@@kiwilabspickleball Thanks.

[@krazieecko]

Foam paddles are the future. Not only does it limit the sound but also transfers energy better. If they want to regulate the speed of the game, develop slower ball technology

[@DianSusiana98]

I'm looking forward to seeing your new technology.

[@mandrews93]

Pro tennis players are notorious for using a model of racquet that is sometimes a decade old, but with the updated paint job for marketing purposes. Often, the paint job isn't even that same family of racquet that the pro uses. Curiously, most pro tennis players use a control-oriented, low-power setup. Of course, pickleball is a very different game, with very different requirements and pros/cons associated with control/power levels drawn from equipment. Just my thoughts in response.

[@kevolutionpb]

I mean until they state explicitly what will pass and won't pass, the only thing you can do is just play with what's stated as "legal" for now.

[@VividTape]

Tyson, Ben, Collin, Anna, and the like all need to be held accountable. They are complicit in promoting these illegal/overpriced paddles

[@HarveyWarren-uj5rx]

😂 You mean currently legal and same priced as other pro paddles. How about you just learn to adapt instead of complaining online…. Things change The game is faster now. Why don’t you just go back to wooden paddles and play barefoot.

[@jimb6683]

PS are you form Owosso? Wife is from St Charles and I grew up in Hemlock

[@kiwilabspickleball]

I am!!!!! Small world! We sponsored a tournament last year there!

[@MetalEsquire]

I looked at the thumbnail and thought, 'oh he got hit in the face by a new Joola.' Lol. The ronbus fx tech looks really cool because, like with the nova, they get that you cant cram stuff in the paddle but can tweak it in a way to safely enhance performance. coretek alpha(poly core)/omega(nomex core) is foam injected & looks insane for $120. I know pb studios said his alpha leaked so that pushed off his review. I was gonna get the oni but it sold out (lucky me.) The pro orgs looking like geeks, as usual.

[@kiwilabspickleball]

😂😂

[@WisdomInsightReality]

I hear Joola may be filing a $45 million dollar lawsuit against the USAP. I hope so, this is long overdue!. What independent body is overseeing the USAP testing model, holding them accountable, making them more timely, more responsive to their clients? The USAP is the problem! They have no transparency, and no accountability, they're a black hole. Who is the third party tester, what is their company name, what are their qualifications, what is their track record, years in business, customer list, customer references, what scientific equipment are they using, where are their detailed, published, scientific test results for each paddle tested? The USAP collects too much money, tens of millions of dollars, to be shrouded in such secrecy. Sunlight is the best disenfectant. Pickleball is going soft with all this talk about injury, liability etc. There's a simple solution, wear protective eyewear, when compared to paddle prices, this is a simple, cheap solution. Don't dumb down pickleball more then it is. Be progressive, continue to evolve, keep an open mind, remember your viewers.

[@charlieytpw]

Rule: 2.E.6 d and f Illegally creating trigger excellent at point of a excited ball. Lawyers get ready for hurt players and children. Engineers hiding fact of strength of carbon and Kevlar ability to take impact on ether side It’s a revival.

[@crushitralphnlilly2525]

Just play the Game stop being a bunch of whiny babies geez have a different league for people who want a slow boring game grow up

[@peteherrera1502]

No the people need to stop buying them if there is a problem with them.

[@Think890]

That's sun poisoning my brother

[@Mr.DJones]

USAP is worthless but for keeping their salaries.

[@robedwards6926]

Joola has horrible customer service. Not replying to emails and they dont answer the customer support line. Been trying for 2 weeks. Never again will buy a joola paddle.

[@JiHPark]

gearbox has always been filled with foam..LONG before the ProPower. Your emphasis on foam is misguided.

[@protab09]

i think power paddles will change the game too much and bring to many injuries from getting hit in the face. I dont like it

[@GunnerstahlY]

Such a meandering presentation, had to stop the video.

[@brandotex]

Gen 3 is ruining PB for sure. Its unfortunate

[@HarveyWarren-uj5rx]

Nah makes it way more fun

[@joetucker-x3c]

they don't play table tennis with bare paddles. Its funner when you can put spin on the ball.

[@Guinnessdog77]

I’ve played against some of these gen 3’s and in the hands of a below average player that can’t control their shots they are downright dangerous. Errant headshots are practically impossible to duck under and if a woman should take a shot from one of those in mixed doubles they probably won’t ever play with you again. I’ve been tagged before with some hard hitters and it left bruises for a week. Getting hit in the eye or nose and you could end up with a broken eye socket or nose. Everyone is a banger now and the soft game is missing in a lot of players. Why learn the soft game when you just blast shot after shot trying to hit your opponent? I come from tennis and played with wooden racquets with a 1 inch sweet spot. It took great skill to be able to hit the ball and place it. Now you see the pros pounding serves that are almost unable to be returned accurately. The racquet technology makes watching tennis boring at times but hey you got the mph clock to watch between aces. Pickleball is heading in that direction sadly….

[@richpickleball9730]

Different strokes for different folks. Can't please everyone. The old school people like to stick with the dinking soft game... the younger generation likes the Power game... it is what it is... Paddle Technology evolved so evolve with it and Get Better.

[@Guinnessdog77]

@@richpickleball9730 I have evolved with the game and have got better. You really are missing the point of why Pickleball is such an appealing game and community. I can bang with the best of them with my tennis background and can easily intentionally hit people, if I did that nobody would play with me or could trigger a fist fight. Playing with bangers is mind numbing boring. If the paddles keep getting faster reaction times get shorter, the distance on the court remains the same, more injuries will occur. It makes playing potentially dangerous. Pros are now starting to wear protective eyewear and rightfully so. I’ve watched some pros discussing this issue. The intelligent ones realize if everyone is banging and getting bodybagged every other shot people will tune it out on tv and investment will dry up. These pros advocate capping power to allow the dink rallies that spectators enjoy the most and maintains the reason for having a kitchen., showcasing tremendous hand skills. Your attitude towards “old school” players is condescending and detrimental to the game and its future…..

[@HarveyWarren-uj5rx]

Pickleball is full of Karens. Be faster.

[@mbr05c]

@@richpickleball9730 The answer is a combination of the two. That’s what makes the game great. ‘Get better’ is cope. It’s not that you can’t play with rockets for paddles, it’s that you shouldn’t.

[@CoreTekPB]

Because investment and TV matter to so many players

[@ThiccBoi23]

Dang bro that looks like sun poisoning

[@kiwilabspickleball]

Total rookie move on my part.

[@ThiccBoi23]

@@kiwilabspickleball I made that mistake once at a car show on a cloudy day... some lessons hurt to learn

[@oxlopez]

@@kiwilabspickleballplease see a dermatologist. That can become a serious issue. Great video by the way 👍