Using a Manual Antenna Tuner: Ask Dave Episode 5

Manual antenna tuners are less expensive than the automatic ones, and are perfectly okay for your station. This video shows how to tune a manual antenna tuner, both with an external SWR meter and with the SWR meter built into your transceiver.

[@wb5rue]

Great video Dave! Thanks for the great refresher course.

[@CharlotteCaniac]

Great video and easy to understand for a new ham. Thanks!

[@shawnrullens9281]

With a manual ATU with tapped inductor. You should not changed inductor while transmitting. Damage can occur to transceiver. That warning is in the instructions with these types of ATU's

[@davecasler]

+Shawn Rullens True! Thank you.

[@farmerwayne1404]

Ty!! Great explanation. And as they say.. You can tune a guitar, and you can tune a piano. But you can never tuna fish! 🐟 🐠 🐡

[@coldwaterjimmy7044]

Thanks

[@notsoandy]

Top man, Andy from the UK

[@jkssr1885]

I have a low swr on 145.000 high swr on 147.000 should i use a tuner? 1.0 to 2,7high freqs

[@seaningram4434]

Hello, Dave, Name here is Sean. I am using an MFJ-945E (cross needle) manual tuner with a Yaesu FT-757 GX II HF xcvr with an HF5B / Butternut antenna on 30 Ft Rhon Tower. What mode do I need to select when tuning for Power/SWR? 73s and Tnx de KD4ADV

[@davecasler]

Sean Ingram Hi Sean, the procedure for checking SWR is on pages 26-27 of your manual. Basically, transmit a few watts and check SWR. Given your beam antenna, if it's set up properly, you may not need that tuner at all. Good luck! 73, Dave, KEØOG

[@Species-rj9si]

Dave, you forgot something VERY important. When tuning an antenna into anything but a dummy load (and why would you want to tune a dummy load?), you must ID your station!!! Every time you radiate a carrier, no matter how small, you MUST, either in phone or CW, IDENTIFY!! Transmitting into a radiating antenna without an ID is ILLEGAL!!! I never once saw you ID in this video.

[@davecasler]

+Species 5618 No need to shout! When I test I identify myself. The act of doing so did not make it through the editing stage of the video. The video focused on tuning, not on identifying. 73, Dave, KEØOG

[@Species-rj9si]

+David Casler First of all, I'm not shouting. I used exclamation marks to punctuate the message. IfI sometimes capitalize a word because here on KZbin there is no way to type something in italics. I were shouting, I would have used all upper case letters. Secondly, you might have at least MENTIONED that an operator should ID when transmitting a signal into anything other than a dummy load. How many new hams will see this video and think that IDing isn't necessary. The number of unidentified carriers on the bands causes serious interference problems, as I am sure you are aware. And as a ham for almost 40 years, I can assure you the problem is much worse today than in times past.

[@davecasler]

+Species 5618 I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on what the editorial content of each video should be. Regarding the epidemic of tuning up without identifying, my experience is different from yours. I rarely hear it. I can recall back 40 years ago that every radio required tuning before use, so there was lots more tuning up on the air, though it was usually quite short. HOWEVER (italicized, bolded, and underlined), and this is a big however, today I see a dramatic increase in discourteous behavior on the air, from simple and casual profanity and vulgarity to deliberate interference with other people's communications. In my video on the 20-meter band, I advise viewers to simply avoid frequencies above 14.300 because of this type of behavior. Also, I frequently hear people "tuning up" on top of a DX station. It's not really tuning up--it's deliberate interference. Lots of reasons have been advanced for the increase in discourtesy, but it certainly parallels a similar erosion of courtesy in our nation at large.

[@Species-rj9si]

+David Casler Yes, agree to disagree. And 14.313 is definitely a problem as are some spots on 75 meters. Interestingly, as we speak, I am listening to the Beehive Utah Net on 7.272, getting ready to answer my name on the roll call, and at least two inconsiderate people are throwing fairly loud carriers. I hope they quit before the NCS calls me unfortunately, on this net, interference is the rule, not the exception.. VY 73 de Dave AJ5f

[@Satchmoeddie]

+David Casler I will usually just put a preprogrammed CW ID, and a digital voice recorder with a ppgd delay on the mic so it plays out, after I release the PTT. I had a cable failure with a mic, and the audio was not getting out. I don't have too many problems with people interfering while they are tuning up. There are a lot worse problems out there than that!!!! Mainly I just see more idiots who deliberately stomp on other signals, & use language that is banned by the FCC. How can anyone be annoyed by tuning up, when we have a--holes seeking out frequencies in use just to disrupt them? Or they get vulgar & obscene. My grandmother was using a party line way back when. My aunt was very ill, and she was calling the hospital to check on her. Some person, cut in and said, "I wish you goddamned bitches would not take up the phone with your f---ing gossip. Grandma was a CWA member & a telco operator at Buckley Field. Her brother was a high level management supervisor for Mtn State Telephone & Telegraph. The potty mouth's phone was held hostage for a fine. If I am having problems with that ATAS, it drops to 5 watts to tune, but I try to find a rarely used section of the band, and I will just hit the CW auto play or a digital recorder, with "KI7AQJ testing KI7AQJ, and let that play as & after I tune the ATAS, which we did finally get it working! By the way, let me email you my number. My uncle is an old Military Intelligence radio man, and he hosts a lot of hunters, motorcyclists, snowmobilers, & others up at the cabin. We'd really love to have have you stop by for a meal, & maybe stay the night. We are 4th or 5th generation western slope Coloradans. He enjoys having visitors up there. He is legally blind now, but you probably won't notice. I am making another J Pole & a trio of ground planes in VHF, UHF and a VHF/UHF combination. I need to go out & finish turning some trap coils, & get those element soldered to the PLC259s. I need someway to get out on 80 & 160. I got the net up in Nevada last night, but now way would my puny 100 watts reach. I know who I could hear, and he is running 1500 PEP with two 160 foot towers. I could not hear anyone else, except for one other operator answering him at all, and they were all in Nevada. I don't think my ATAS would like transmitting down there anyway. I am getting a tuner, and do I have a nice 8164 powered linear I need a power supply for. I need to attenuate it back to the legal limit. 73 KI7AQJ

[@jonweston22]

I've been licensed as a technician for 7 days shy of a year as KN4OXI. I've been a general now for a month and a 1/2. Your instructional videos have been extremely helpful for study and/or application. This one will assist me with 3 current projects after I watch a few more while taking notes THANKS - 73s

[@dalemyers9265]

i want to extend a hardy thank you. on 7/11/2015 after watching your vids. i passed and acquired my extra class ticket at the firecracker hamfest in salisbury n.c.. albeit, by the skin of my teeth, i missed 13 and not 14 answers. and that's all that matters.

[@davecasler]

Congrats on your upgrade! 73, Dave

[@RobMacKendrick]

Been using a manual ATU all my life. A little amused by people who think they're ineffective or hard to use, but I guess times change. With my Stone Age MFJ 949E I can load up a barbed wire fence. Wouldn't think to key down without it. Great video, Dave. For those who find this all a little overwhelming, it's this easy: tune inductor and both caps to most noise. Dial up as little power as possible on the XMTR. (5 - 10 watts is good.) Key down and tweak ANT and TX caps till you get no reflection. Dial up 30-odd watts and tweak caps again, if necessary. Then 50, then 80, and so on. In most cases you can tune up 100w pretty quick like this, and with experience you can eventually tune up most hard cases too. Very freeing, let me tell you. Thanks again, Dave.

[@graywoulf]

Thanks Rob for bringing the MFJ-949E to my attention. I am new to all of this so I pay attention to what equipment I see others using. That ATU is a good choice for me as I can afford to buy a used one on my budget.

[@RobMacKendrick]

@@graywoulf Good deal! If you don't have a good ground (upper floor, portable ops, etc.) I find the MFJ artificial ground is also a good investment. It's basically an antenna tuner for the counterpoise you would otherwise connect to the "ground" post on the ATU; it tunes up the same way as the ATU. Costs about as much as the 949E, but unfortunately isn't as common on the used market (though I do see it sometimes). But it solves many feedback and RFI problems, and allows you to tune up even less promising radiators than the ATU alone. With these two things I've been operating QRP through 100W to random wires for 25 years now, and have had a blast. Best of luck!

[@chrischeetham1652]

Little late to the party here, but I'll chime in anyways because I liked what you had to say. I recently bought my first HF rig and upgraded to General, and in my current living situation having resonant antennas for every band on up to 10 and even 6m just isn't possible. I decided on an end fed random because I can use something with a bit of length to it, I just can't be putting up a tower or anything higher than 35 feet or so which I figure gives me a pretty decent length to work with if I do an inverted v, or even a sloper. I also like to experiment, building antennas specifically as well as learning about transformers and such to balance them, but I digress. Basically, my research on such a set up and knowing what my radios internal tuner is capable of (basically good for 3:1 or under), before I even set things up I knew I'd more than likely need an external tuner of some sort. Being a new-ish ham, and certainly new to a lot of the set ups used in hf, I weighed all of the options between auto or manual as I didn't want to overcomplicate things for myself. I found that I was naturally gravitating to the manual, despite a lot of folks saying they suck, autos 10 times easier, and all that. Automatic would be easier I suppose if it worked the way it was supposed to then thats all fine and good. But then I feel like I would lose a lot of control when maybe I just want to make a little tweak here and there. Plus, I don't think they're hard to tune up just about anything with on any band. I like the MFJ versa tuner with the cross needle meter and it even doubles as an antenna switch. I guess we all have different aspects of the hobby that motivate us, for me I feel like I am more in tune with how everything works together when using a manual tuner and seeing the difference in settings from one band to another. Thats my opinion on the matter anyways, and one huge factor for some folks might be that a good automatic tuner is going to cost quite a good chunk of cash. That cash could be better spent elsewhere in the shack Im sure, at least in my shack anyways. I picked up a barely used MFJ 941E on fleabay for $20 untested, luckily the gamble paid off and it is pretty much brand new and calibration is easy on them too. Guy even threw in a brand new 12v wall wart to power the light in the meter, can't beat a deal like that. My next project I think is going to be collecting up some parts, like a decent roller inductor, and a couple nicer variable air caps, and build myself a more robust antenna tuner just because I can. I'm not against automatic tuners by any means, we're all different. But, I also think there's some things a decent operator should be able to do before jumping ahead to Extra. Building at least a simple antenna, be able to build a simple swr bridge, know how to at least use a manual tuner and understand the basics of how it works, etc... seems there are a lot of "Extras" these days who memorized the answers to 3 question pools and marathoned all 3 exams in a weekend and are on Facebook a week later asking how to get his "SWR's" down. SWR's? I only have one SWR to deal with, unless I'm running more than one radio, then my advice would be to simply work on one at a time 😂.

[@johndarrin145]

Another GREAT video. THANKS! Beginner Note: Antenna tuners come second. A tuned - matched antenna comes first. Can't obtain a tuned - matched antenna, to old, HOA problems, no space...etc. Then a tuner is plan "B" but never plan "A". This should be mentioned to beginners. "But my radio has a built in tuner" okay be lazy and connect it to a piece of metal and make the tuner do all the work. But don't wonder why there's loss. And "yes" there's loss. This is simple math. The antenna tuner is a placebo and most of the time superfluous when a correct antenna is in place and used properly.

[@adelarsen9776]

Thanks Dave. Excellent presentation and content. I was brought up to believe that a manual antenna tuner was a guy with a pair of side cutters.

[@davecasler]

Ade Larsen Hi Ade, thanks for your kind words. My antenna is a full-wavelength 80-meter horizontal loop. I've put a diagram together for a future video. I interviewed a ham friend of mine on how he approached his antenna problems, and I want to interview another before putting out the video. Stay tuned!

[@graywoulf]

Thank you Dave for this easy to understand tutorial. I am just getting started in amateur radio and learning what I need to learn and there is a LOT to learn as you know. And now, thanks to you, I can make an informed decision on what to buy.

[@douglaswilliams6834]

If you own an antenna analyzer, you can also use that to tune your antenna without putting a signal on the air. An A/B switch can be used to choose between the transceiver and the analyzer.

[@paulshaffer9674]

I use a CB half wave ground plane and a manual antenna tuner for 6 10 12 15 and 20 meters. Longest QSO on 20 QRP was France.

[@johnwest7993]

It's hard to be impressed when we don't know that you aren't in France.

[@G0USL]

One point I noticed- It's best practice not to operate the forward/reflect switch (or any feedline switches for that matter) whilst transmitting. You can get arcing and burnt contacts as well as possibly damage your finals.

[@G0USL]

Whoops just read other comments!

[@eogg25]

when I first started in ham radio I used a incandescent light bulb, to tune my transmitter. I went thrue a few finals before I got enough parts to build a tuner, then as I got more money I finally bought a used one. nice hobby and you have a nice video.

[@WILLIAMPERRELLI]

Dave hi I hv a Heathkit sa 2060a. I am familiar with the tuning but there is a ‘sensitivity’ dial and a ‘set’ button. The manual gives almost nothing abt this. Am I correct in thinking to transmit at low power and to turn sensitivity dial while set button is pressed in, and then to line the needle on the meter, to set?? And to do this to each band? I appreciate your answer. Thanku Dave. Billy N1mrk

[@michaelzimmer4853]

Thank You so much, David. All Your videos are very, very interesting. Thank You for Your way to talk English, as well. That helps foreigners to understand every spoken word. Greetings from Germany. (Mike, DL2XAM)

[@TomDavid88]

Thanks, Dave! An 84 year old ham just gave me this thing to learn how to use! EVERYTHING is on KZbin now!

[@goaley45]

Does it matter how long the cable is to the tuner/receiver? Won't I also have some signal loss there if the cable is too long? Where can I get this cable that has the proper connections on both ends?

[@davecasler]

Yes, longer cables lead to greater losses. You can find cables with the connectors already mounted from several sources on the Internet. Try usacoax.com

[@istvanszabo8698]

Is the antenna matching unit good to improve preselection of a receiver? Which are the LP, HP construction? 3 decades back I had an up-conversion transceiver and frequently heard AM stations around 10100 kHz. There was no broadcast there. When I turned on the ATU (AT150) that "QRM" was dropped. Which tuner is good for this purpose, T match , S match ...... ? Recently I compared my K3 with a direct conversion transceiver and heard the unwanted signal on 30m band later on upper band also making that band unusable. Need a solution, this type of QRM is not predictable depends on propagation. You may give an answer in QST as many tiny transceiver owners could be affected.

[@andreeknott914]

Any antenna coupler with more than two variable elements needs an additional power indicating meter at the output of the coupler!!! Couplers with two variable elements are L-couplers. If you match an antenna with these, the setting is unique, as there is just one and only setting (or none) to match the antenna. Three element couplers like T or Pi couplers have several ranges in which they are able to match the antenna. But these ranges have quite different efficiency! You will not be able to find the most efficient setting for your coupler if you can't check how much power comes out of the coupler. The VSWR meter shows just the quality of the matching. I strongly recommend to add a simple field strength indicator to indicate, how much power comes out of the coupler. There are a lot of simple circuits in the web to build a simple field strength indicator. But without this little gadget you simply can't find the best setting! This is not my opinion, this is pure RF technology! Some elder antenna couplers have such an "relative output meter" and a potentiometer to set its sensivity. But modern manufactures simply left these out to save a few Dollars for each coupler they sell. Instead they have added nice looking VSWR crossneedle meters - most modern transceivers have a VSWR indicator already integrated, so in the coupler it is really unnecessary in most cases... ...but the other meter really IS needed! So build one yourself and tune your couple not just for a nice VSWR but for highest output!!! 73 Andy DH5AK

[@cube1us]

You did something in this video that I have heard is a pretty big no-no, which is to switch the inductor while doing a transmission. The problem I expect is that the SWR could go through the roof and that’s due damage to the transmitter while the switch contacts break and then make the next inductor tap.

[@francismcclaughry9851]

I have two antennas that is no tune. I have an auto tuner the the five ninety and on seventy three i have a no tune antenna. the only problem is they will just take a hundred watts. i DO HAVE ONE ANTENNA THAT I HAVE TO TUNE. I have g-5rv. it has to be tuned when you change channels

[@bigsquatchsasfoot1964]

Thanks for your instruction kind sir I now understand what I’m trying to achieve much appreciated 🙏

[@tinybladder8819]

Hello Dave my questions is. Is there an antenna Turner that I can use for 2meter and 440 all in one.i see the mfj-921&924 looking for all in one.

[@rodneyjohnson4794]

not everyone has, or can afford, an swr meter. show us how to tune it the 1920s way. that is what he was really asking: tuning without any meters. max noise?

[@stevekiel82]

Hi Dave, I have to say a big thank you for these videos because I recently passed my advanced exam here in the UK giving me a full amateur radio licence equivalent to your extra class! I failed the first time and found your videos on capacitance and inductance very helpful because seeing what happens in a circuit and parallel circuits really brought home the message, so once again thank you for taking the time to produce and star in these educational videos because sadly there are not many on KZbin geared towards the UK syllabus but the subjects I needed to reinforce my learning are universal in our great hobby! 73 Dave De Steve M0LVL

[@davecasler]

Steve, congratulations on your Advanced! And thanks for the kind words. 73, Dave

[@bradmitchell876]

Dave, it seems like auto tuners are made to specific radios or brands, and a manual tuner could be used without knowing what I might own?

[@preparetolive7823]

Way too complicated an explanation for someone new (me). You lost me. Thanks anyway.

[@paulschmolke188]

Good plan, good demo. I’m surprised you didn’t mention antenna resonance as a prime aspect of this process.

[@Radiobell27]

Excellent video thank you very much. 73 By CE3HOT

[@nickcorkery7663]

I have enjoyed several of these videos and have learned a bunch. but the swr tuning in this video went way to fast and I could not follow. currently studying for my technical.

[@davecasler]

Yeah, it's about time for another antenna tuner video.

[@vironpayne3405]

Did you realize you switched the inductor while transmitting?

[@dustbowlhammer7119]

Thx I'm using an old archer tuner for my indoor di-pole base antenna, would be pretty tricky without it!

[@donc7650]

I have a 1-1 swr meter on my radio to antenna and on meter in line ,,when i put a linear in line the radio meter gos to 3 and the in line meter stays flat why is that ?? and will a antenna tuner fix this ??? thanks

[@audiobrian1]

Thanks for another great instructional video to help us newbies along, Dave! That Micronta SWR meter is readily available on EBay and looks like it would be a decent choice for a shoestring budget ham newbie. I’m curious if it is suitable for a 100W rig? I figure it was designed primarily for the CB market (4 watts).

[@davecasler]

I've used it with a 100w rig. Seems to be okay.

[@jeffc.1050]

A NEWBEE Question? I want to put up long wire antenna it would be a loop pattern around to roof edge of my home. About 12 inches above to roof, of course to get the length it would have a loop type configuration. 14 gauge stranded wire of 148 ft length, then a 9:1 UNUN and a 1:1 line isolater. Feeding to a FT-450d yeasu with a broad LDG matching tuner. Grounding the long wire on the opposite end from the feeder. So far I think it is working on 20m and up with an swr Under 2.2 across the bands. (I tried it on FT8 to a POTA station 1100 miles from me on a power setting of 50) Any suggestions on how to improve it to cover 40m and possibly 75m the voice end of 80m? Is the antenna to long/short, wrong UNUN? Thank you and 73.

[@jeffc.1050]

P.S. does the wire have to be tight or can it sag between supports- about 10’ apart and sagging about 3/4 inch between them.

[@jeffc.1050]

A NEWBEE Question? I want to put up long wire antenna it would be a loop pattern around to roof edge of my home. About 12 inches above to roof, of course to get the length it would have a loop type configuration. 14 gauge stranded wire of 148 ft length, then a 9:1 UNUN and a 1:1 line isolater. Feeding to a FT-450d yeasu with a broad LDG matching tuner. Grounding the long wire on the opposite end from the feeder. So far I think it is working on 20m and up with an swr Under 2.2 across the bands. (I tried it on FT8 to a POTA station 1100 miles from me on a power setting of 50) Any suggestions on how to improve it to cover 40m and possibly 75m the voice end of 80m? Is the antenna to long/short, wrong UNUN? Thank you and 73.

[@jeffc.1050]

P.S. does the wire have to be tight or can it sag between supports- about 10’ apart and sagging about 3/4 inch between them.

[@MrACP1911]

This is a really old thread but hoping for an answer. I have a Yaesu 817, MFJ-813 and a Z817 auto tuner. What is the order equipment should be connected, I thought that antenna into SWR meter, from SWR to the tuner and from the tuner to the radio, but I am just not sure, please help. VA3LAM THANK YOU AND 73

[@davecasler]

Connect the radio to the S meter. Connect the S meter to the antenna tuner. Connect the antenna tuner to the antenna. Tune for lowest SWR.

[@richardmorgan8027]

NO SUCH THING AS AN ANTENNA "TUNER"! MATCHBOX, COUPLER, YES BUT NOT A TUNER 65' 8-1/4" IS A "TUNED" LENGTH FOR A 1/2 WAVE DIPOLE AT 7.125 MHZ. THE BOX ON YOUR DESK OR THE CKT IN UR TXCVR DOES NOT, DOES NOT, DO A THING TO THAT LENGTH. THE 65+' LENGTH IS A PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTIC OR PROPERTY OF THAT TUNED CKT. A TUNER IS A SAD, POOR TERM FOR SOMETHING THATS LYING TO YOU. TWIDDLING ITS DIALS OR PUSHING THE "AUTO-TUNE" BUTTON SIMPLY DOES THIS: IT TRIES ITS BEST TO MATCH THE IMPEDANCE OF THE SOURCE [THE TX] TO THAT OF THE LOAD - [LOAD BEING THE ANTENNA -PAY ATTENTION; "SYSTEM"]. FEEDLINES, BALUNS, AND A SMALL AMOUT OF OTHER VARIABLE COMPONENTS THAT MAKE UP THE LOAD ON THE OUTPUT OF YOUR TX. REMEMBER PHROM PHYSICS OR A HAM RADIO CLASS "MAXIMUM POWER TRANSFER WHEN ZS = ZL. -THATS MY STORY AS A HAM FOR 58 YRS, AND I'M STICKING TO IT. '73 RICH KF9F

[@davecasler]

Wow, that's a lot to shout about. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Tuners (or matchboxes or transmatches) weren't so important with tube rigs with pi network outputs. But with the fussier transistor finals, impedance matching is important. A common, ordinary tuner will provide the right reactance so that the combination of feedline and transmission line will look like 50 ohms resistive to the transceiver.

[@timplymale6858]

? will my old ic-7200 work with the new ah-730 th.

[@Jerrythenerdful]

Power is not reflected and re-reflected. The reflected wave establishes something called, wait for it, a STANDING wave. The standing wave changes the voltage and current distribution along the line, and the change in voltage and current distribution is what increases (or decreases) loss. The PA never sees "reflected power". The PA only sees a mismatch from the target of design value it was intended to run into as a load. The standing wave simply presents a different load impedance to the PA, and the result is identical as if a resistor and reactive component of the value was placed at the PA terminals. The PA can run colder, warmer, or not change at all from this mismatch. We really should try to stop with this power bouncing around until it turns to heat or bounces back into the PA stuff. That isn't how it works. The mismatch, on the first reflection, sets up a standing wave. That is why we call it a standing wave. The standing wave simply alters the voltage and current along the line. It can make losses decrease, increase, or not change at all. That's right, losses in some systems can decrease with a slight mismatch.

[@johnwest7993]

The reflections 'bouncing back and forth' were the reason my 1 Watt longwave signal's voltage and current nodes grew so high. In fact, I could watch it grow on the storage scope. The number of cycles involved in that 'bouncing back and forth' until it reached an equilibrium of input vs radiation and dissipation defined its bandwidth, its 'Q'. That's what 'Q' is all about. It's how LC tank circuits work. They store multiple cycles of energy 'bouncing back and forth' and growing in energy, voltage and current with each new cycle unless it is dissipated in resistance or radiated. But thanks for the interesting perspective.

[@Jerrythenerdful]

@@johnwest7993 Interesting how you use system bandwidth limitations or rise and fall times of an envelope to justify the false idea of multiple reflections. I'm not quite sure how to make that leap between two totally different things.

[@1crazynordlander]

Thanks for the demonstration videos. Since I can't read apparently (I'm Joking) however having someone show me is gold! Honestly thanks. Nice pic of you checking out the flowers.

[@sphexes]

Before I was a ham a good friend who was a ham and now a silent key, N8NLE demonstrated a manual tuner by tuning up a screen from a window and an aluminum ladder and preceded to make many cw contacts. I was entertained. I want to get an old Dentron or Johnson Match Box just to do the same thing. 73 W8XDX

[@vironpayne3405]

What is the ideal capacitance setting for the Tx and antenna when switching the inductor to find maximum noise? Fully meshed on both, or midway on both, or elsewhere? As fully meshed is supposed to be optimally efficient I start fully or close to fully meshed. This generally provides a fairly broad Q once tuned. I've tried other matches with higher/narrower Q thinking it may act to some degree as a preselector to help reject out of band QRM/QRN and to some degree end band noise. Are both the hi-Q and lo-Q matches just as efficient assuming the same indicated power out and reflected power?

[@francismcclaughry9851]

should the tunner in the radio should be turned off?

[@nateo200]

Do I definitely need an SWR Bridge? A wonderful HAM I met on 60meters is giving me the same MFJ Antenna tuner but I have no SWR Bridge. I have an ICOM 718 which has the same type of tune button.

[@davecasler]

Your radio has an SWR meter built in.

[@nateo200]

David Casler Yeah I know I just wasn’t sure if it was good enough but if you say so! Thanks for the reply Dave! I know a lot of KZbinrs can’t get to everyone! Especially on older videos!

[@BourbonWhiskies]

Is an "antenna tuner" and "antenna matcher" the same thing?

[@jtownshend]

Thanks Dave! I have an ATU and a Manual Tuner. I bought the latter to use it for DXing with my receivers. I have an MFJ-974HB that has a power and SWR meter built in. It is a bit bulky, so I may get a smaller manual tuner for DXpeditions. 73 from PY3WHO /PY5136SWL.

[@mikemorris5399]

Why can't I us my antenna tuner be for my amplifier? If you put the amplifier in bypass mode anyway and antenna tuner turn in low power anyway.

[@davecasler]

Your radio output is 50 ohms, and your amplifier input is 50 ohms when the amplifier is on. Don't put a tuner between the two. If you're going to use a tuner, you have to bypass it when you're using the amplifier. Or, get a high power tuner and put it after the amplifier. You can use the high power tuner on either high-power or low-power.

[@midnightcaller200]

I have the same antenna turner . Sometimes when I tune my antenna, the antenna knob well be on 3 ( for instance) and the transmitter knob well be on 5 or 6 why is that? should the antenna ,and transmitter knob be on the same number ??

[@davecasler]

Just the luck of the draw. No significance.

[@michaelbradley8508]

Dave - I enjoyed your video very much - thank you. You are a valued source of clear, concise, technical information in this wonderful hobby of ours. Please never retire. I have a question regarding the diagram outlining how to connect the transceiver to the SWR Bridge, to the Antenna Tuner, to the Feed Line, and the Antenna. Is the procedure the same when using an Auto Tuner? MB

[@patriot9455]

I just found your series, have you looked at updating any of them. It is 2020, I have bought things from several SK sales, so I am not using "new technology". If there is no need to update the actual information, that is fine. it seems pretty basic, or at least well explained. I need to get the latest ARRL antenna book. Thank you for taking the time, and the pics are beautiful. I can no longer live at high altitudes because of respiratory issues, the area you live n is so beautiful, I lived in Colorado Springs and Denver metro at different times. Kansas is my home now. K0XHF here. when I get my shack ready, I will be looking for you.

[@jerryadkins758]

I recently made an eBay purchase of the same MFJ 901B tuner you use in this video. I have been looking for several days for a tutorial using this tuner. Great tutorial. Thanks!

[@heinzkitzvelvet]

My question is, will an antenna tuner benefit a receiver like the Eton Elite 750? I've read that it helps, but I'm only one place and no one else seems to talk about using antenna tuners with receivers only.

[@davecasler]

Sometimes it helps to put a small (100 pF or so) variable capacitor in series with the antenna. You can tune the capacitor for max signal.

[@heinzkitzvelvet]

@@davecasler Gosh, I wish I had a clue about what you just wrote. I'm so very new at all this. My radio hasn't even arrived yet. What I didn't mention before is that I've just won a Sony AN-1 active antenna (because I hadn't bought it yet) that's on the way. Another video guy said, with an active antenna, I wouldn't need a tuner for listening. The Sony AN-LP1 is touted to be a superior antenna, but I understand loops are directional so I'd have to move it about to clear up stations. The AN-1 has a 5 foot whip I'm planning to mount on the highest point on my roof. Long wire antenna aren't really feasible in my neighborhood. We might have a ⅛ acre plot, if it's that big. Probably not.

[@furonwarrior]

This was a great video, thanks! I always wondered what happens to the radio energy as it’s going through the tuner.

[@stealthop]

Im so confused now

[@francismcclaughry9851]

0ne point five is good enough for me

[@brettany_renee_blatchley]

Can someone comment on the _considerate_ way to tune one's antenna? Would not a long tuning session create a lot of interference? Do you tune at a minimal power-output? ...Thinking of getting into the hobby.

[@davidmackenzie5332]

Dave, this is by far the best (only?) attempt I've seen on youtube to explain the internal workings of a tuner. Thanks!

[@hwsadberry6781]

Super helpful. Thanks!

[@eugenecbell]

How do you “adjust the calibration”? Is the a adjusting knob o the back or something?

[@chrismarchant493]

Hi Dave GOOD youtube vid I have been trying for days to get my swr down I built a delta dipole for 20 meters and it did some funny thins when I set to 40 meters it came down 1to1 So I seen your video and dun it in no tome THANKS Chris MW6FYY

[@davecasler]

You're welcome!

[@w.loczykij5354]

I just got it! Finally!!!

[@mewrongwayKOCXF]

Awesome Dave!!! Oh and that forest looks like a great place for a field day!

[@eugenecbell]

How do you read the single needle SWR meter? Do you read forward then reverse and then make a ratio in your head? Which number comes first forward or reverse?

[@davecasler]

Set the knob so that the forward power is full scale. Then flip the switch to reverse and read the SWR directly.

[@eugenecbell]

David Casler, thank you for this answer and all of your great videos. I passed my Extra Field Day 2020. I watched your videos, studied with two books, and attended a self paced on-line course (hamtestonline, www.hamradiolicenseexam.com/). The online Circe was great at teaching and grilling, the books were also helpful, but your videos were my motivation. You are responsible for incentivizing my success.

[@clifflynn2628]

can you use the internal tuner in the radio to clean up swr as you change freq instead of retuning the ext. tuner each time on the same band ie as long as your on 20 meters

[@davecasler]

Maybe, but only maybe. It's generally considered best to use just one tuner--either internal or external. 73

[@clifflynn2628]

David Thank you for the reply. I am brand new at this and currently putting together my first hf station. I have acquired a Kenwood 570d with internal tuner, and am looking at a g5rv dipole as my first antenna. Trying to save up now for tuner, but after seeing your video i believe i can get by with one of those 901b tuners, as my radio does have internal swr meter. I just got my general licence on 2-27-17. i may just wait till after Dayton though as i think i might try to make that trip. 73 KM4ZJL Eastern TN

[@TomCrosman]

Just got am mfj-945e. Works great. Thanks for the infp

[@paullalli7774]

A good explanation.

[@danieldion1]

Hi Dave, excellent video, I was just wondering if it was a good idea to adjust the inductance while transmitting. I was always told this was not a good idea. I always start with both capacitors at 50% and tune the inductor for maximum noise first. Then maximum noise with the capacitors and fine tune with a carrier. Excellent video and thanks! VE5DLD

[@davecasler]

If your power is high, you might get some arcing if you adjust the switch with transmitter power on. If your power is low, this won't happen. I've never had the problem myself.

[@K6TJO]

Outstanding and very helpful video. I owe you a donation

[@AbuAslamVU2AXL]

Very useful explanation dear KE0OG Dave 👍👌

[@loganmacgyver2625]

I have got an swr meter with a tuner bulit in for my CB but im kinda afraid to mess with the tuner

[@nocodegeneral1023]

Thanks for this. I just got this same tuner at a hamfest so its was very helpful

[@hoppareallife9297]

Thanks

[@VictorDiazBass]

Hi David, my name is Victor LU1DVH, I have a question for you: Is it much better to install the ATU as close to the antenna as possible? I have an MFJ-945E Thanks for the videos. regards!!

[@davecasler]

That particular tuner is designed to go right at the radio. It tunes the combination of the feedline and the antenna.

[@ansleygilmore3972]

Nice explanation, Dave. Thank you!

[@pauldittbrenner8553]

Kenwood 590

[@10rninjariderzx]

You guys wear your government serial numbers with pride.

[@MadMax23]

Great video thanks Dave!!! Got a question for you Sir...i'll have in a few days a lovely well kept Kenwood TS 440 S...this radio already has a tuner inside...would be enough to tune a 102" whip for mainly 10/11/17/20/40mt band? Or i better add to the set Up an external tuner? The whip will be mount on the Roof's center of my Sprinter Mercedes RV...the Roof is made out of steel , so should be a good "ground" ...i'll maybe have as well place enough to fit some Radials at the Antenna's base...if it help .looking forward to hear from you...the whip is metal no fiber glass...73's hope by the way you and beloved one are Fine...here in Spain we do fighting hard against CoVid 19....all the best Steve ciao

[@MadMax23]

Other option apart of the 102" whip , could be Buy an Antena Multiband HF one of those you got to move a cable between pin connection to tune on every single band...like the Outback 2000 antena or the Proxel X1...if you have any suggestion on other good antena for Mobile Car uses...i'll be happy to pay attention to your suggestion...the idea of the 102" whip is that i already have one with pl mount and spring bought from Usa from Breedlove shop...best again 73 ciao

[@Munky332]

how about when/where/why to use an antenna tuner? i guess an example would be, say I have an FT-450D, it has a built in antenna tuner capable of tuning out 3:1, but lets say im using a Windom or OFC dipole which is designed to have a fairly low SWR on multiple bands (i've heard 80-6m can be under the 3:1 across - though i think that might be a bit of a marketing claim). would it be better to let the built in tuner do its thing no matter what, or, if the SWR is already fairly low, just leave the tuner off? from what i've heard, having the tuner on reduces the power? i'm sure its minimal, but with farther out of tune antennas, how would this effect "real world" performance? antenna on doing its thing, vs off with a bit of SWR (but still acceptable, up to say 2.5 or so).

[@davecasler]

It comes down to experimentation. Leaving the tuner on all the time is probably the way to go unless it misbehaves. Some of the verticals on the market (e.g., AV-640) are pretty spectacular when it comes to low SWRs across multiple bands, but they can be pricey. The OCFD is a popular antenna these days, but you might need a wider-range tuner than the built-in tuner. 73, Dave

[@davidbyrd5065]

Dave, I just bought a mfj 891e tuner and was disappointed it did not come with a manual! One is available online I can print , I guess I can go to Kinko's and get one printed . I would not have bought it if I had known. I will survive but I will look carefully in the future at the fine print. Thank you for your instructional videos . David Byrd KN4BHS

[@davecasler]

"No manual" is getting more and more common.

[@trombino09]

Dave how would i set up a manual antenna tuner with an amplifier and a swr meter

[@patrickslevin6424]

David, that last picture looks like a space man lost in the woods???

[@davecasler]

Indeed. One of my favorite pictures. Every time I see it I'm taken back to that beautiful spring morning. It was taken along a trail in the Stealey Mountain Trail Complex on the west side of Owl Creek, not far from here.

[@bhamptonkc7]

Nice video

[@bradcfi2]

I have been struggling trying to understand the advantages of a feed point installed tuner. I am struggling so much, I am not sure how to ask the question. Assuming everything else is equal such as tuning range, power capability, and so on, is it always optimal to have a tuner at the feed point? One of the LDG products says it will handle the problem of feed line standing waves. In my mind, this means only a remote tuner can solve feed line problems and a desktop model cannot? The desktop solves the feed line issue before the radio. Is that all we are trying to do, match the 50 ohm radio impedance or is there something else going on? Love to see a video, Remote versus Shack Antenna Tuners PS, Your the best on KZbin. I am in the process of watching them all. Brad N6GR

[@davecasler]

Thank you for the kind words. If the antenna tuner is at the radio, there can be very large voltages and currents in the feed line, and these can create heat in the feed line. If you put the tuner at the antenna, you will avoid these the losses. Unless your antenna is way out of tune though, you not going to save that much by putting the tuner at the antenna.

[@acestudioscouk-Ace-G0ACE]

Good basic information, though I personally wouldn't flick between Cal and Ref whilst keyed down but that's just cautious old me.

[@davecasler]

You are correct. My bad.

[@richardimel6520]

Hi going for my Tech. lic. next week. I've ran CB radios for many years . do you tune your antenna in the same manner as a CB if your radio does not have a built in swr meter? looking to get a BTECH 5001 for both mobile and base unit , possibly setting one up as a emg. go-kit .

[@davecasler]

+richard imel Essentially, yes. Put the SWR meter between the radio and the tuner, then adjust the tuner for minimum SWR.

[@johncliff996]

Hi there Dave, Thank's for your informative, interesting video regarding antenna tuning/matching. Thinking back to my early days with HF radio (Brit army). We had the old "Variometer" tuners with just about the whole range of sets. They had a meter which you set for Max. reading by use of the rotary inductor and just one capacitor. We accepted that we were tuned by this method on either a vertical or a wire end-fed antenna. No one seemed bothered about SWR or knew anything it in those days. It was not until I made a "Reflectometer" i.e. with a enameled wire threaded up under the coax loop and resistively balanced out to 75 ohms or below etc. etc. as per the "Technical Topics for Hamateur Radio" book from the RSGB. This was to use a Pi config. tuner for a vertical half rhombic on low VHF. I was part of a unit team testing these out using the Larkspur C45 sets. We had an out station up in Denmark, equipped with a tuning set-up that I had made in my shack .Another one on the North German coast line using the same and my station back at Hildesheim. (N. Germany). This was all organised by our Regimental signals officer who had read an article in the "Gunner" magazine which he had picked up in the "Mess". The system worked out great and we had coms between Denmark and N. Germany on sets that we often had problems with mobile to base over 15 miles range. At that time it seemed like a miracle in using about 200 feet of wire in an inverted V with its 400 ohm terminating resistor to work that kind of distance on VHF. I used the same system successfully with a 1 watt O.P manpack in the jungle of Malaysia to an HQ base station when the "Rebro". station broke down . The HQ station had the standard VHF ground plane vertical antenna by the way. 73 de John - G0WXU.

[@davecasler]

Wow, you've got some interesting stories to tell!

[@hotcocoa2192]

Please put up a vid on tuning a liner amplifier lots of confusion about a tube type amp and proper tuning of it thanks Pilgrim5

[@davecasler]

I don't have a tube type linear amplifier. My amp is solid-state and does not require tuning except to tell it which band and using. You should follow the instructions in the manual.

[@MrCgooden]

Dave. What is the best tuner in your opinion? Manual or automatic? Also what brand and model do you use. I am new to Ham Radio and just building my Ham Shack on a limited budget. KN4HNO

[@davecasler]

The best tuner is the one you like the most. My MFJ-993B is an autotuner that has served me well.

[@eugenepohjola258]

Howdy. Very nice presentation. Is there a reason to why most tuners are T -tuners ? I believe Pi -tuners provide more harmonics attenuation. Perhaps modern tranceivers have very good harmonics attenuation by themselves ? Regards.

[@davecasler]

Electrically, a T tuner and a pi tuner do the same thing. They both help with harmonic suppression. Modern radios do not need any additional harmonic suppression and can be connected directly to the antenna and meet all requirements.

[@thormusique]

Great video, thanks! Here's a question: Are some manual tuners better than others? I'd like to buy a manual tuner, hopefully one that I can take out in the field. But I also don't want to compromise on quality, especially because in the field I mostly use relative low power.

[@davecasler]

MFJ makes many antenna tuners, including QRP tuners. All manual tuners these days use the classic "tee" model. Two variable capacitors and a variable inductor.

[@MrArlington900]

Hi Dave, it is always a pleasure to watch your videos. I do have a question. I have an antenna tuner that has a small meter on it. I don't know how good it works, but it looks ok and the tuner seems to work quite well. However, due to the size of the meter and because of my failing eyesight I would like to place a second larger SWR/Watt meter in front of the transmatch. Is it ok to do this? It would really help me to see what is happening better.

[@davecasler]

Yes you can put these meters in series prior to the transmatch

[@davidbyrd5065]

As a recent general class amature , I appreciate your videos and the excellent explanations. David Byrd KN4BHS

[@davecasler]

Thank you. Get on the air! Maybe I'll hear you.

[@paulshaffer9674]

I am using a CB half wave ground plane and a manual antenna tuner for 6 10 11 12 17 20 30 40 60 80 and 160. 80 + 160 are kind of a NVIS.

[@davecasler]

NVIS is generally undertaken with horizontal polarization. Although your wide-range tuner may give you an acceptable SWR, at those huge mismatches, much of your power may be radiated as heat in the cable.

[@tombates8093]

Dave I have a question. you used a micronta swr meter. I had one like that years ago. I used it for a cb radio. could that meter be used for any ham frequency and power.

[@davecasler]

Yes, for any frequency even including 2m. But I'm not sure how much power it can handle. It was made for the CB market back in the 1970s. 73