Using a preamp and integrated together

[@thomshere]

Great video as always! I will always say it…I think you are the coolest guy in audio! I love your open and honest conversations with us. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[@MAELOB]

Paul a lot of modern integrated don’t have the pre-out/amp connections to bypass internal preamp

[@vsmichael1]

MAELOB mine is a 1960 inter grated tube amp & I came from tape out on preamp to tuner in on my HK-a300. Sounds amazing. I needed more inputs. My HK doesn't have a pre in or main out. Preamp is a NAD 1600 which gives me a tuner as well. People always say no it can't be done , the hell it can't & it's not over driving to damage tubes. It's a output line level to record to a cassette deck.

[@gupdaddy]

I wish someone would make a video on what to look for on receivers/integrated to be able to do this and how to do the connection

[@herbertmathews]

You can also use the tape loop on the integrated amp if you are using the preamp because it has more inputs. I have an integrated tube amp and a seperate pre amp because i have both a cassette and R2R so the tapes are connected to the pre and the pre goes through the tape loop of the intergrated. I can record from any source to either tape.one of the pre outs of the pre amp also goes to a yamaha surround receiver for movies.

[@pnichols6500]

One of my integrated amps has a great pre amp, it has low and high adjustable bypass, making for great sub control, as well as a slew of other features, I run that into the pre input on my tube amp to power the speakers, just adds a bit of tube goodness to the sound. For quick listening/streaming I just use the SS class A/AB integrated by itself.

[@skularatna8136]

So just for fun I did an experiment and the results are really surprising in a good way. I have a headphone amp which also has a line out that means it can act as a preamp. Just for fun I hooked it up via its line out to the aux in on my SET and connected my reel-reel tape deck to the line-in of preamp. Set volume on integrated to max and then hit play controlling volume on the headphone preamp. Well not what is was expecting, I thought I would be getting muddied sound etc but surprisingly I’m getting a more fuller richer midrange now and also more pronounced bass. And bear in mind this is not even a high end headphone amp. But this goes against all I’ve read that you can’t have a preamp connected to an integrated. Has anyone tried this and noticed that they liked the sound ? Ps - I will do some more critical listening to make sure my ears aren’t playing tricks on me

[@Robbo-eh3wb]

I am having the same experience with a singxer as-1v2 headphone/preamp. What is yours?

[@bienramos7587]

I have an Onkyo integrated amplifier+ tube preamp.Since the Onkyo have no aux or main in.The preamp is connected to the CD input ..it will works sound is become warm and detail compared to integrated amp alone..both volume and tone control are working..the system now is a hybrid amplifier..

[@maxrider2887]

Same mine tube pre amplifier + Denon pma1600ne .

[@tn9274]

thanks for the advice on not doing double pre-amping. I had been suggested to do double pre-amp several times by a DIY audio friend with seller coat.

[@LincolnRon]

Easiest = Preamp line out to Integrated-amp line in. Set one's volume at 12:00 & use the other for volume control. Most commonly amp at 12:00 preamp at what volume you want.

[@doowopper1951]

Ronald Most volume controls give maximum fidelity at maximum setting. So the power amp will work best at maximum setting. But, unfortunately, that probably means setting the preamps VC to a less than optimum setting. While your suggestion of 12:00 may work with some preamp/integrated combos, the best solution is to try numerous settings on both units, and do extensive listening to determine which setting of integrated level is best for you.

[@LincolnRon]

@@doowopper1951 Most things like car radios, boomboxes, all-in-ones, computer speakers, home theater stereos, and Hi-Fis distort when the volume is turned all the way up. An item that does not is an exception, not the norm. Someone with an audiophile budget shouldn't even have this problem, they can afford to replace their integrated amp with a dedicated amp.

[@doowopper1951]

Ronald that is true only because in those units, you cannot control the signal level going into the unit. For virtually every instance where you can control the signal level going into the unit that contains the amp, the amplifying unit itself will sound better if the volume control is set for maximum, as the volume control itself sounds best at max setting for any decent control. Paul himself has said that in several of his videos. But, that means you have to keep the preamp control at a low level, and that will lower it’s SQ to some extent, depending on the quality of the control. It may be a substantial degradation, it may be insignificant. That is why if someone decides to run a preamp into an integrated, to get best results, you have to play around with the settings on both controls and listen carefully. ideally, you would have a power amp which always uses the preamp’s control, but however you do it, there is ALWAYS some sort of trade off. It’s up to the owner to try to minimize the trade offs, and hope he/she can get them to almost disappear.

[@dustin85677]

I’m having good luck running a phono tube preamp (no volume control) to one of the Line In inputs on my integrated amp.

[@Neo-ug4nb]

I use a Marantz SR6013 as preamp and, as I already had the Marantz SR5011, as amplifier as I am driving each speakers separately using a miniDSP as crossover and signal corection. There is a setting on all and on 5011 as well where 7.1 input is used and post probably bypassing several circuits but not the volume. The same way 6013 has a the RCA line outs what bypasses the amplifier circuit (most probably). The way I did was I silenced first the amp 5011, then turned the preamp 6013 to max, and then I started to turn the 5011 to a leve I would listen at maximum and leave it on this leve all the time, and using the level control from preamp.

[@dominicpardo4783]

I have a Luxman LV-111. Can a preamp be used with it?

[@thee-edd]

Hi ive have an old yamaha av-m99 av integrated amp with the pre amp input output could i use a pre amp to connect to my av-m99 to boost the performance and volume?

[@Drackleyrva]

My integrated has a pre out so I have it connected to an amp---sounds great! Thanks Paul.

[@billd9667]

It seems to me that, despite opening the audio circuit between the preamp and the amp in the integrated, the preamp will still be drawing power from the common transformer, minimizing the advantages in that respect. The new separate would have to be leagues better than the integrated's preamp to make this worth his while IMO - for as Paul says, there are certain synergies designed into the intergrated amp that would offset any gains from using a "better" separate preamp. If the writer has a preamp that just stomps the one onboard (as in a mass-market integrated), then it's also likely that the onboard amp section is sub-par as well. In that scenario, this upgrade might be considered another step on the user's journey to high end audio and worth the swapout. It's exactly what I did back on the olde days (70s) when I hooked up my Onkyo receiver with "U-Pins" to a Harman/Kardon Citation power amp. A few months later, I bypassed the Onkyo altogether with an Apt Holman preamp and just used the receiver as a tuner until I got a Yamaha a few years later. That was my journey from receiver to discrete components. It kept me broke and out of trouble :P

[@doowopper1951]

Bill D But, if the preamp section of the integrated is bypassed, the draw is minimal, probably no more than a watt.

[@billd9667]

Neil, you may be right, depending on the design. After all, the U-Pins only close the audio circuit - they don't send a signal to the preamp to go into standby. In my experiance, all of the source indicator lights (and in the case of a receiver, the tuner) are lit and the preamp will respond to changes. Personally, I wouldn't trust it to shut down.

[@TimBedford]

Hmmm, what i took away was his book plug. Some people want to use a preamp with an integrated. Not ideal at all, certainly in audiophile settings but people have reasons and need compromises. Above he talks really about an integrated having seperate pre out power in connections so obvious what to do here, with that option technically we really aren't talking about a pre going into an integrated. Most integrated amplifiers, especially in the more modern era, dont have that option. Having been heavily into and reading up on audio for a long time I have seen both opposing options said to be the best by experts, say put the integrated at full volume, mostly, but some saying just put it at half volume. I came here to get an update. Normally I have seen this guy, he looks very knowledgeable and his videos are good but this time.... maybe you need to get the book...

[@thierry3953]

This can be done with a receiver amplifier section as well, I have been using a very decent Denon avr 3803 using its 7.1 " External in" section in direct mode and connected to an Emotiva umc-200 pro/pre 7.1 output. The Denon volume is set at 80% and the result in this case is quite a huge step up especially when used in the stereo analog mode which is 80% of my use. I know a receiver is not really a stereo dedicated integrated amplifier but thought this may give food for thoughts to someone. (of course I am on the prowl to find a nice dedicated amplifier as well) Thanks Paul for your entertaining educational videos,greatly appreciated all the way to the Aloha state.

[@blackhearted6]

can i do this whid my emotiva umc 1 and my denon avc a1se ?

[@therealbronxbull_]

My intergrated has pre out connections labeled "effects loop" with jumpers in the rca so i don't know how the hell to use that or even if i can connect my power amp to those effects loop I suck at this.

[@robel__]

Would it be possible to connect using "MM phono stage connection" at the integrated amp?

[@vsmichael1]

I have a HK a300 inter grated tube amp. I use a NAD 1600 preamp on it and it sounds great because I come out of tape out of preamp to tuner input of the HK. I needed more inputs. It's getting a line level input so it isn't over driven. There you go people yes you can do it.

[@TheNLHAZE]

As always Paul is the glass half-full or is the glass half empty you remind me of my grandfather with Alzheimer's thanks Paul and have a great day

[@beverlygiammarrusco3760]

I was hoping you can help with a new set up. I have a T85 turntable (no internal pre amp) to a Denon 600NE with a internal pre amp. I would like to connect a external pre amp to have a better turn table sound. any suggestions. I can't find if the Denon has a passive system. thank you for your help!

[@TheBigfoot567]

I'm kinda new to this fancy audio world, but I'm approaching 70 yrs...I recently bought a Will sent on R8 integrated tube amp. I've been hearing about others saying "get sore amp". The R8 does have inputs for pre amp. What does this preamp do for me beyond another volume control and bass/treble control? Just purchased an $80 Fosi BT20A preamp....I'm not exactly sure why...but I'm in the rabbit hole.

[@AllboroLCD]

I have an old Nikko integrated with Pre-out/in, and am considering a preamp only so I could gain a remote volume control. Some also do it to use the preamp as a "buffer" stage.

[@anshumanbhattacharya8755]

Dear Paul, I am considering connecting my integrated rotel amp to a rotel power amp. Reason being, even after bi wiring a single rotel 1590 mk ii to a single Klipsch RF 83 which would be 2 rotel 1590 MKii for a pair of RF 83. Will adding 2 power amps prove to be counterproductive or a step towards better performance of my speakers.

[@M0D60]

Didn't know it could be done. Will try

[@charlesferguson6678]

I don't know if this is correct, but my understanding of a system with two volume controls is that to get one of those controls out of the picture, turn it all the way up and then leave it alone. Once that's done, use the other volume control for volume. I hope I'm not spreading wrong information. Anyone?

[@charlesferguson6678]

@Douglas Blake Thank you Douglas. Yeah I get it. I appreciate the detail.

[@richclips]

I would say try it out and see how you get along. I have done this with Exposure integrated amplifiers in the past, if your integrated amplifier is fairly quiet, as in noise free, then I would set it's volume control to say 50% and then use the pre-amp lifters volume control as your daily use volume control. You want to make sure you're not over driving the input of the integrated amplifier, so play carefully. Make sure to use the CD or Aux input and not a tape loop. Careful Experimentation is the key and using your own ears to tell you what works and what doesn't :) Start with all volume controls set to low and increase carefully, you'll soon find out what works or what doesn't. Have fun :)

[@dustin85677]

richclips What about using the tape in/out for receiver? My integrated Sony amplifier doesnt have a preamp in/out.. :/

[@jamesthefridge]

So my record player doesn’t have a built in pre amp (I’ve got a project primary e, which I went for because the reviews all said it’s the best sound quality for my budget and at the end of the day that’s the most important thing to me). Should I just buy an integrated amp and then get a preamp I can attach to that if I’m not happy with the sound quality? Or would it be best to buy a power amp and a pre amp? I’m hoping to spend less than about £250 on the amp(s) if possible.

[@josephvanalstyne4049]

have an audiosource 100vs budget class ab intergrated. want to bypass preamp in intergrated with schiit asguard 3. please explain the process of completing this configuration. thanks.

[@janinapalmer8368]

Hahahaha...... you gotta luv him .... " go on do me a favour ... and buy my book.."

[@markussorrentino]

Thanks a lot for all the good informative videos. My integrated amp doesn‘t have jumpers but i am wondering if i can use the “Home Theater Max Level Input“ to connect a pre-amp ? I do understand that this is normally for AV Receivers but it would be the onliest way to bypass the pre-amp section. Or does this not make sense?

[@harlemandreshernandezguerr6301]

I would like to use a preamp with my Yamaha rx596, it has cd direct and pure direct, is this correct?

[@alvidrez7956]

High end integrated has done the work already to get great sound . Stick with the integrated

[@doowopper1951]

What if the integrated does not have enough inputs, and the preamp is being added for it’s additional inputs? Personally, I think I would try to find a very good switching device IF they are all high level sources. (I have been in that situation before)

[@julianridi6014]

My Esoteric RZ-1 sure doesnt sound like a compromise. I had a plethora or separates and the Esoteric integrated won.

[@valleyguy633]

My Sony str-de505 receiver manual says that to use it as an amplifier simply complete an input operation from the source. Thats all it says. Just have to try it and see what happens.

[@catified2081]

Oh I am going!

[@bernarddussault2365]

I will do the opposit with my Atoll in50 : I'll use it as a preamp for a tube poweramp

[@tonypastele3488]

i just wonder, did it work for you? i have an Atoll in 100 and i am interested in of that combo results :)

[@bernarddussault2365]

@@tonypastele3488 yes it does work well !

[@bugpack6]

Can you connect a lower end AVR to a very high end ATI amp. I want to use the features of the AVR but need a lot more quality power.

[@musicman8270]

If the AVR Has preamp outs. Unfortunatly lower end AVRS are missing these. I use zone two from my AVR to my preamp, cant listen to digital sources but tuner, blutooth, analog sources play through my preamp just fine.

[@ilovegongsmygongsongs2094]

Hey Paul thank you for signing your book Gus Kund

[@tuantrd]

I use onkyo a9050 as a pre amp with my Yamaha as 501 and it’s sound way better

[@vyoufinder]

Oops, Paul almost unsold the integrated models.

[@davidlloyd9598]

I use a stereo guitar rig and send the final output of a zoom stereo FX pedal with amp Sims into an arcam alpha integrated amplifier. It warms it up nicely and doesn't sound digital. Does anyone else use this method?

[@renwatson9217]

what about using a bigger power amp into the preamp of an av receiver

[@eggshellskullrule7971]

。Should we forget abt this pre + int. approach?

[@charleskatz2606]

Paul you didn't say what to do if he doesn't have a jumper or what technically happens in terms of having two gains and the difference between where the volume is adjusted.A decent question buyt kid of incomplete answer.Also subject comes up with dual DACs i.e. using and external DAC into an active speaker with a built in DAC.The latter is an issue as more and more speakers have them but folks would like a upgrade

[@RickMahoney2013]

Integrated amp is also know as a receiver .... Right ?

[@jeffhunter4395]

Nope!!

[@RickMahoney2013]

@@jeffhunter4395 please tell me the difference, thanks Rick.

[@jeffhunter4395]

@@RickMahoney2013 A Integrated amp is a power amp and pre amp and no tuner/am-fm in 1 box, a reciever has all three built into 1 box.

[@RickMahoney2013]

@@jeffhunter4395 Thanks

[@RickMahoney2013]

@Douglas Blake Thanks

[@swinde]

If you have a high quality integrated amplifier and you want to connect a preamp to it because the new preamp has some features absent in the integrated amplifier, of course the presence of jacks on the original amp makes it easy. This should make any controls on the original amp ineffective. If these jacks are unavailable, you should consider buying an appropriate power amplifier as well. It is possible to modify the original amp if you are a tech and have the schematic, but it can be tricky.

[@mattbrown3549]

Swinde- Your second option is quite interesting as then you end up with a preamplifier, integrated amplifier and a power amplifier. What a way to go if you like 'some features' in the integrated amplifier!

[@swinde]

I had hoped that you would realize the when you opted to also purchase a power amplifier, the integrated amplifier would be removed from the system. The new preamp replaces ALL of the controls of the integrated amplifier other than the power switch, so the only thing being used would be the power section of the amp. Purchasing a power amplifier removes the need for the integrated amplifier at all.

[@mattbrown3549]

@@swinde That makes sense. Thanks

[@dustin85677]

Swinde What about using the tape in/out for receiver? My integrated Sony amplifier doesnt have a preamp in/out.. :/

[@swinde]

@@dustin85677 I am pretty that the tape in/out in your receiver would not likely work for this. The Tape in is the signal from an audio source (normally a high level output from a tape deck). The Tape out directs signals to a device, (normally a tape deck) and the signal is sourced from the position of the input control on the amplifier/receiver. There might be a way to do this but it is awkward.

[@worldsyoursent.1635]

🙏💪

[@johnchampion7819]

This does not help if the integrated amplifier doesn't have a 'jump', as in my case, so I am no further forward.

[@terrywho22]

All integrated amps that are not strictly entry-level should have outputs for the preamp and an input for the power amp section. Unfortunately, many do not.

[@capnjazz97]

is it possible to connect a preamp into an integrated such as vena ii or rega brio without doubling up on the preamplification, or is it just plain better to use a plug in to a power amp as opposed to an integrated in that scenario ?

[@dustin85677]

What about using the tape in/out for receiver? My integrated Sony amplifier doesnt have a preamp in/out.. :/

[@terrywho22]

@@dustin85677 It really depends on the circuit and what you are trying to accomplish. This may be of use: audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/tape-out-preamp-out.332860/

[@terrywho22]

@@capnjazz97 I don't own either of those, but quickly looking at the back of the Vena ii, I don't see an "in" to the power amp section, just a preamp out. If you had another preamp that you wanted to use, you would be definitely be better off with a separate power amp. Plus you don't want to pay for a preamp section on an integrated when you already have a separate preamp. Hope this helps!

[@ryanschipp8513]

Peachtree audio makes very good integrated amps for sometimes under $2,000 Paul.

[@billwillard9410]

Shameless, shameless. Hey, we haven’t heard anything about the speakers in a while - any updates?

[@ptg01]

What if the integrated amp DOES NOT have the JUMPER mentioned to decouple the integrated's preamp from its amp ... ie. it only has INPUTS 1-3 ? I am considering adding a 2nd pre-amp (as I need more inputs), like Schiit Saga or Freya in passive mode, and maximize the 2nd pre-amp's volume and have the volume control be all done by the integrated amp ? My thought is the output of the Saga or Freya is fed into one of the inputs of the integrated amp.

[@Paulmcgowanpsaudio]

You're going to be stuck then with putting the second preamp's output into one of the integrated's inputs. This will work but certainly not a great sonic option.

[@dustin85677]

PS Audio What about using the tape in/out for receiver? My integrated Sony amplifier doesnt have a preamp in/out.. :/

[@M0D60]

@@dustin85677 Try it. Just try it. BUT, First make sure all components are Unplugged. And ALL Volume controls are turned Down. (Plug in components) Gradually increase volume to hear results. If Sound is good continue. If not immediately discontinue. (Always make sure Volume cntrl is Down, when testing)

[@ford1546]

If you have a good preamp and you connect it to a pre-amplifier with a built-in amplifier then you destroy the sound type in the preamplifier. What the factory has spent a long time on making is colored and you don't get any longer the sound type you got before.

[@davidkornblatt991]

Can a receiver be a great stereo system

[@googoo-gjoob]

decent...yes. great.......

[@mark22732]

That's completely relative. There's no possible way to answer that without some point of reference.

[@AlexCBrandon]

I'm probably getting annoying with these kind of observations but here goes anyway... anyone tell you you're the new Bob Ross?

[@Paulmcgowanpsaudio]

Who is Bob Ross?

[@AlexCBrandon]

@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio kzbin.info/www/bejne/on26douIdtOEmpI A painter on public television that is well known for his relaxed demeanor and easygoing presentation style.

[@BogdanWeiss]

where is the version for grown-ups? This sounds like a guide for teenagers who have just outgrown their first boombox