USN Burke Flight IIA DDG - Comparison to Chinese Type 052D

[@jcwoodman5285]

Nice builds!🤗

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

Thanks

[@ha-ha-ha-harris9161]

Btw ,I love all your collection ,so lovely and enjoyable .It must cost you with a lot of money and time ...

[@cx3264]

稻花香里说丰年 Jeff could be a navy marshal with all his fleet lol

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

I have purchased these ships over many years. Started buying them 25 years ago figuring when I retire it would give me plenty to do. Then I got cancer ten years ago and my wife suggested I start building them...so I started. Then 3 years ago they diagnosed me as terminal with only four months to live. I did a medical retirement and prepared as best I ould, but the Good Lord has decided, for His own purposes to keep me around a while longer. The Drs do not understand and call it a miracle. I have faith and am okay whenever the Lord wants to bring me home, but with my wife, five kids and 15 grandkids, I would rather stay here as long as He allows. So...I kept building and started this channel.! Thanks for asking, and God's best to you and yours!

[@dpjb38]

Nice work! --from a former Chinese sailor now doing business with USA

[@abes.4040]

Jeff, I really enjoy your videos, models look great and the info you provide is amazing. But I would like to suggest that you use a tripod to film the ships and a better camera with a higher resolution so we can better appreciate your work. There's a lot of detail lost and the picture looks blurry. I am just suggesting here so you can improve the viewership experience.

[@shipmate3577]

Nice models. Is there a 1/350 model for the Chinese PLAN JIN SSBN submarine?

[@dustinebruner2521]

Jeff the flight IIA looks amazing, as do all your models! I have to ask, what colors are you using for the Hull vs. the Array and VLC's? I just finished building the Momsen and used haze gray for the hull, but for secondary features, the best thing I could come up with was to uses light ghost gray, which still seems a little off. Again great build!

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

I have a set of colors that I have standardized on. They are not all exactly right, but at least all my various PLAN, JMSDF, US Navy, Royal Navy, Russian, French, etc. use the same color scheme and therefore all look the same. Here's a link on Fine Scale Modeler here: cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/7/t/170109.aspx You can see all of my Build and Review threads on Fine Sacle if you go here. I have kept threads on almost all of them and gotten a lot of good feedback to. Here's that link: cs.finescale.com/members/jeff-head/discussions.aspx

[@theunitedstatesofamerica2848]

Do you think a DDG could withstand a few anti surface missiles? The uss cole took a hit with a bomb and that looked nasty.

[@Zeroczar]

Do you have an extended heli deck variant of the type 052d? it would be nice to see it up against the former variant.

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

See the video I later refer to in this answer, but I am not aware of an extended deck variant of the Type 052D. The latest ones built show no such variation. However, the Chinese have developed and are building the Type 055 which is a much larger vessel, displacing 12,000 tons or more. You may be referring to them. I do have two of those and have shown them. They are the PLAN's answer to the Ticonderoga Cruiser and are longer than the Type 052D and carry more VLLS cells (112 vs 64) They are impressive surface combatants and have larger APARs too. Here is a video of the two of them, and I do put a Tico in there to compare: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGSTnGCchtypo5o and here's another video of two Ticonderoga class cruisers alone : kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGSTnGCchtypo5o

[@Zeroczar]

@@JeffHead-IdahoUSA On this thread they are referring to it quite frequently, it is allegedly has an extended helicopter deck for the new z-20 to replace the z-9. www.sinodefenceforum.com/plan-type-052c-052d-class-destroyers.t6881/page-334

[@nikolatasev4948]

Wow, the Burke has a much larger bow sonar as well. I suppose this means it has better anti-submarine detection as well. In all - a great video!

[@dadidadida123]

Btw, the reviewer didn’t notice the Chinese counter part of the ASROC has a range that is around 100 miles, which is far far longer than the American ASROC. So Chinese 052D does not rely so much on helicopter for anti submarine war fares. And the “Band Stand” radar on 052D can detect targets below horizon in 90% of the weather conditions, which will again does not require helicopter for mid range targeting. And the latest 052D carries type 311 sonar is one generation newer than the sqr19 with a longer detection range. These all means, 052D does not need that much of reliance on helicopters which can hardly operate in bad weathers. So this is obviously an advantage but not a disadvantage compared with the Burke class.

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

Well, I am the reviewer and the fact is we do not know at all what the ranges and capabilities of the Chinese electronics are. We just know what they tell us, whereas the US regularly tests, and improves their gear and then publishes what their basic capabilities are for all the world to see. Tremendous claims of equipment that doubles or triples US capabilities should be taken for what they are...the PLAN using Sun Tzu type communications to confuse and counter the situation. No matter what might be said, having two helos as opposed to one is always better...else the Type 055 would also only have one..and yet they put two on their best vessel. The PLAN, despite the tremendous claims seems to understand very well, in reality, that important consideration. And the fact remains...once a potential combatant SSN or SS is found, you want to be able to prosecute it and not lose it. With two helos you cn do ht, and the US helos are designed to fly and fight in very bad weather conditions...and with two they can rotate one another out until they eliminate the threat. with only one, unless the first one can get the job done...and it may or may not...they will lose it while waiting fot that single helo to refuel and return. In a good sized Carrier roup they may have enough elos in the whole group to be able to double up and get the job done...but that just means a wise attacker will put one or two out on one azimuth and suck up 2-4 helos from the group, and then cone at them from another direction with two or three more and have a better chance of getting withing strike range. Anyhow, we can all pray that something like this never turns into reality and that we can negotiate and work with the people and leaders in China and avoid any bad situations like that.

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

As an engineer myself who has worked on such systems, I can say that detecting submarines at 100 miles is very difficult thing to do, particularly when the subs have been designed with quietness in mind. And the US has. The one area where the Chinese have not caught uo very much is in nuclear carrier design...and without seeing the test data I cannot make too much judgement...but that is why the US posts in the open most of its test data. We want others, friend and potential foes alike to know how good our equipment is s a means to deter war. I wish the Chinese would do the same...but knowing this area somewhat (one of the projects I worked on years ago was the NSSN, which became the Virginia class submarine) and I can tell you their capabilities are amazing. I doubt the Chinese would be able to so easily detect and destroy them at such range. Let's both hope we never have to find out...at least that is my hope and prayer.

[@josecalderoncalderon5684]

Excelente video!..

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

Thank you very much for those kind words.

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

To compare, here are videos of the Type 055 larger destroyers (wherein I compare them to the Ticonderoga cruisers): kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGSTnGCchtypo5o and a video of two Ticonderoga cruisers: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jqWnlpSLqqZ5bM0 and also a video of a Wasp Class (the Iwo Jima LHD-7) carrying a load of F-35B) stealth strike fighters: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d3KZdHalqp6hoJo making it a "pocket" or escort carrier, allowing the US to increase its number of carriers by 4-6 at any time it desires. Please consider subscribing and taking a look at all of the many videos of the various nations nval forces in 1/350 scale models, except in the case of the two Japanese new carriers where they do not have 1/350 scale models of them yet, so I built them (the entire two carrier CSG) in 1/700 scale: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGazmolujL1kqZI

[@kkgc5760]

Great model, from what i saw the 052D is still a bit far behind the burke class, but the 055 could be the real contender with the bruke might even surpass it. I still amazes the speed chinese is modernizing their ships, copying or otherwise, the result is pretty clear that which ever their plan was, it went pretty successful. The US really should step up it's game in defending it's technology, i also hope these chinese adversaries will push the US to innovate more to maintain or steer further ahead it's lead in technology.

[@zszs100]

I think the Aegis radar on the Type 52D is more advanced.

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

The Type 055 is really beginning to compare with the Ticonderoga class. I just got one of the first Type 0551/350 scale full hull models from Bronco in the PRC. I bought two and intend to put them with my Liaoning carrier strike group. I had a 3D waterline vessel only, but these are much more detailed and I look forward to having them in their. The CV-16 with two Type 052Ds (which are very capable DDGs), two Type 054A FFGs )which are also very good and capable frigate designs), and two Type 055 DDGs would make a very strong Carrier Strike Group. The PLAN just needs to get to CATOBAR carriers as soon as they can with the ability to have decent fixed wing AEW aircraft. Anyone serving on carriers knows that the AEW aircraft are the most important aircraft on the carrier. They give them a chance, if they are strong enough, to defend the carrier far out on the threat axis and the chance to intercept potentially hostile aircraft before they can launch their missiles. The US E-2D Advanced Hawkeye is capable of doing that...a helicopter mounted AEW is not. Those are better than nothing, but they are weak in today's world and so Chinese carriers will probably stay under the net of ground based, strong AEW aircraft until they have something stronger...and to even have a real chance to do that, they will need fixed wing AEW aircraft, unless they could develop something like the EV-22 AEW version of the Osprey that the US has developed. The Royal Navy did not buy it though and I believe that was a mistake. The Melin MK2 AEW helo with Crows Nest is about the best helo oriented AEW out there...bit it is still too weak in today's world of long range and fast moving ASMs. Anyhow, thanks for the comments and chance to compare notes. God's best to you and yours.

[@ha-ha-ha-harris9161]

As a Chinese , I have to say Burke is much superier than 052D destroyer . The key is 055 destroyer , but US navy is more powerful in quantity ...you've got 60+ Burkes ... Jesus ! So as far as I can see in 20-30 years , there's definitely no way PLAN can match US navy .

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

But they are making so much better equipment than they did just ten years ago. The Chinese people have a lot to be proud of...and should be. I loved to see their excitement with the launching of aircraft of the Liaoning. Perhaps they have a ways to go in aircraft carrier and nuclear attack submarine development. But their surface ship capability, their combatants, are something nobody should take for granted...and I have worked on, designed, and analyzed naval warfare for may years. You have a lot to be proud of.

[@hdhrdfsrkgh]

No offense, but i think liaoning won't last a hour. But yes, no-one asked for my opinion.

[@aeromexico0015]

Cool:)

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

Thanks!

[@theunitedstatesofamerica2848]

And i heard that the navy doesn’t like the f 35s

[@shannonpace9433]

USS LASSEN! I HELPED BUILD THIS SHIP IN PASCAGOULA MISSISSIPPI

[@cx3264]

Jeff , this is a really great model. I like the way how you made it. Herein however I do have a question: why do you constantly compare the US war machines to Chinese? Do you try to convey a message here that China would be a threat to the US? However as far as I know, Chinese people don’t want to threat the US at all, nor our government. However, here the us media always frame China as a threat or another Nazi germany. That’s so misleading in my opinion. If you know our culture and history you know that we had a bad time and got colonized by both western and eastern colonial powers. We understand how it feels if the war were imposed on us. We simply don’t want to inflict the same pain that we had experienced to others. I think this blue beautiful planet is large for both of us to live and share. No reason to portray someone as a threat, which could very much likely to cause or instigating a fear. Also, second question, does west really hate China? When China was weak, we were called as yellow peril or East Asian sick man, when Chinas economy got developed, China is viewed as a threat again. In US view or western view, China has always been a threat. I don’t know how to react to this. I personally love peace and don’t want to see any war breaks out between China and the US at any time. Cause that would break my heart.

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

China is building some of the best, most up to date destroyers in the world...and they are very similar in form and function to US Burke class DDGs. The comparison is not meant to be war mongering or to try and say that China is bad. Quite frankly, it is amazing what China has done over the last 15-20 years in taking a Naval force that was basically more 1950s-1960s equipment and rapidly turning that around, both in terms of quality, modern electronics, very high quality training, and new, competitive and capable designs in 20 years to make equipment that is very capable and comparative to US equipment. They have a long ways to go in their overall carrier operations...but who, 15 years ago, would have believed that the Chinese would even be capable of putting something like CV-17 and now CV-17 out, and upgrading the Russian SU-33 design into an aircraft that is even better and much more useful on the carrier than the Russians could even make it. Still a long ways to go...but very impressive none the less. The other place they are lacking is in very quiet and efficient SSNs, nuclear attack submarines. They need numbers of those to help protect their carriers and large amphibious ships...and that is another amazing area that the Chinese have come a LONG ways. The Type 071 LPD, with seven built and an eighth building are simply amazing given what China had for so many years...theior new Type 72 III and Type 72A LSTs are also quite good, and compliment the Type 071 LPDs quite well. They compare well to the USN San Antonio Class. With two Type 071s and four Type 07s IIIs or As, the Chinese can put a credible Amphibious Ready Group (ARG) to sea. This is meant to be a compliment to the Chinese. I hope and pray that we would ave no war or combat either...I really hope that the Chinese people ultimately have more freedom, political, religious, etc. and personally believe that as the Chinese people continue to experience growth in their income and good jobs and a strong economy that that type of thing will come about naturally, but in the Chinese own way of doing things. Anyhow, I hope you are not offended by the comparisons. The Japanese build good ships of their own too s do the Koreans and Australians and others...and I compare them as well. I am amazed at what the PLAN ha accomplished...and having worked in the field myself on naval designs as an Engineer, and for 15 tears for the US Bureau of Reclamation, I can tell you it is also amazing what the PRC accomplished with the Islands they created in the South China Sea. Simply amazing feats of engineering hat provide both places for Chinese people to visit, and places to help enhance and defend their Sea Lanes of Communication (SLOCs). So, I hope you will take them as they are intended. Of course all navies compare their equipment to each other...doing that does not mean we want a war, or that we have bad feelings. I certainly do not, and have usually been treated very well, and very friendly and complimentary by the Chinese people I have come to know. Anyhow, thanks for your comments and the chance to talk to you. sincerely, and wishing you and yours all the best.

[@cx3264]

Jeff Head thanks for your kind reply Jeff. I was not offended at all. I was just curious about what you see about China or that so called “evil dragon.” I just recently came across an article online it is titled that west really does hate China. It sounded pretty real so I am just wondering your perspective as a westerner. Thanks for your compliment. I also hope more and more people as well as government level in China build all those ships just for peaceful purposes such as UN convoy mission. The powerful warships nowadays in my view mean to deter those non-state actors such as piracy and extremism instead of a state actor.

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

I compare them because the CHinese are expanding rapidly and building ships that are comparable. It's the engineer in me. I compare things and I have nothing but a lot of praise for the PLAN. They have, step by step not only increased their size and capability, but at the same time modernized their vessels. They are the only Navy on earth that is building up enough to challenge the US Navy. But understand, I am not saying they will and certainly not hoping it. I have a great son in law who is career US Navy with another 2-3 years before he retires and I do not want to see war in any case. But both nations have national interests and they build nvies in order to protect them and deter others from indangeroing them. The US does this, the Chinese do too. And that is fine. It is better, less costly, and makes peace and friendship more possible, and commerce better if we avoid fighting...and I hope and pray we do!

For God's sake, stop moving the camera, this is unwatchable.

[@pawpawtx]

Jeff I'm shocked that we copy the chinese !!

[@dadidadida123]

1 052D cost 3.5 billion RMB, which is less than 600 million USD. So for equal cost, you need to compare 1 Burke with 2 052Ds.

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

Actually this is not true. First we re not really sure what the cost is, whereas the US, by law, must be open about the cost of its equipment. Second, since there are only about 17 052Ds afloat while there are well over 60 Burkes afloat, you can compare 60 Burkes against 17 Type 052ds. And the US is continues to build Burks, startbg very soon on the Burke III.

[@dadidadida123]

Jeff Head To build ships is just all about money. You throw money into the water and get ships. USA do have more Burkes, but you have 2 oceans to guard and tons of other businesses to interfere.