USPSA, PDP, and Travis Haley

[@joshuatiffany5594]

Tactical shooting and competition shooting is different. What Travis is doing is fundamentals. It all actually makes tons of sense. But I’m guessing a majority of you and Ben never went through a house in combat in Special Operations. Also that there are many different ways to achieving the same end goal. You can always learn something from anyone. Do more research and then you might understand.

[@ssquiggss]

LOL

[@CitizenCarrier]

😂🤣😂🤣

[@Barnes-ml9wg]

Travis is the king of talking alot but not saying anything

[@gammatheta491]

I reached out to walther wondering if there was a quick fix. They stated this issue is due to the milled area of the disconnector curve, and therefore no retrofit is available. They then relayed pricing information for new slides.

[@BenStoeger187]

Super useful. I pinned your comment thanks for getting good information.

[@chazc933]

The Haley video is basically one of thier handgun classes wrapped up into a short video. In the class they spend 2-3 days explaining in detail why they do those drills.

[@aaron4820]

Those of us who don't get it are just unfamiliar with the kinesiology of the ocular science in a dynamic stress situation while operating in a disruptive environment lol

[@John.VanSwearingen]

What’s neat is you can use exactly zero rounds to check your “alignment” by just drawing your pistol once. If the bumps on top are not aligned or the glass doesn’t have a dot in it, your alignment is off.

[@chilidem]

I think his point was more a natural point of aim drill more than an index drill. Hence why he adjusted his stance on the second attempt. Doesn't change the fact it's a silly drill with live rounds.

[@restoready6013]

I feel 98% of the vid with haley was fine. The eyes closed thing and shooting rounds was odd, but it does have to do with Index or nat point of aim. I think some of us need to realize there are different audiences with different goals in the comp/2a community. The comp shooter and the combat shooter have many of the same goals, but a few divergent goals. The same can be said for beginner shooters who want to know some things to practice for just home defense, and will dry fire maybe the night before they go to the indoor range once per month. Lots of these videos are speaking to audiences that are different than us, and everyone needs to acknowledge that and move on.

[@Osprey1994]

Travis isn't the first person to use closing your eyes to help refine your natural point of aim. I personally don't fuss about that as much as I used to. It's nice to understand where you need to be in order to have a dead center presentation, but the real life practicality isn't great. Now, working presentation without any visual input to help guide you is valuable in its own way. If you draw your pistol and present, then open your eyes, is the dot there? Are the irons lined up? If you can do that, I feel it's more useful than being on target based on your stance and body alignment, etc. PS. But yes, the community is going after Travis after he made a video not long ago about how we like to eat ourselves. Go figure.

[@restoready6013]

@@Osprey1994 agreed. I do the natural point of aim with eyes closed for confirmation of grip, but I don't usually shoot. I am sure it has application.

[@um4668]

The goal is hit what you're aiming at as quickly as you can. That's pretty much the same whether you're shooting for competition or "combat"

[@restoready6013]

@@um4668 interesting. Watching a USPSA competitor rush into a room filled with people who shoot back would be fun to watch compared to a person methodically digging corners and confirming bad people are bad before taking that shot. What you did there is called oversimplification.

[@rolotomase1440]

@@restoready6013 You know what's even cooler..... watching a USPSA shooter "methodically digging cornings and confirming bad people are bad before taking that shot." If all the methodical diggers and confirmers could pull the trigger at even C class level it would be a better place.

[@SoccerVJ2011]

These “Guru” instructors seem silly now, why did I buy the magpul dvds back in the day lmao

[@Highdragjake]

We all did. lol

[@spockaro]

As kids, we didn't know any better!

[@Osprey1994]

Travis has proven himself at this point. The problem with the video is that Travis did not explain anything he was doing. If you listened to him, he said he does not know what is going on, and neither do you clearly. That's the only downside to the video and makes it almost useless for people who haven't gone through his courses. You can mimic what he is doing but it won't really sink in. As for some of the things he shows, they are established methods in the community I have seen demonstrated by multiple instructors.

[@Lightemup2005]

I got them on Pirate Bay

[@islas357]

@@notetaking9308he’s had a way bigger impact than Ben. I would say almost changed the course of the shooting industry.

[@Jacobbernal-r2e]

The Travis Haley video is really just a lot of Ron Avery stuff with not a lot of explanation but I loved Ron Avery he was a great shooter. They used to shoot together and I’m pretty sure that’s were he got a lot of his stuff.

[@CitizenCarrier]

Just watching some of these older videos on your channel. I just bought my second Walther Full Size 5 inch PDP 4 months ago and I can say with certainty that they have NOT fixed the dead trigger issue after pressing the muzzle into a target. The trigger still goes dead. Not sure if they changed it on the pro or the Professional ACRO models, but the regular PDP’s. Nope. Still the dead trigger issue. But it!s still not a deal breaker for me because I really like how it shoots.

[@diegomontejo4657]

Thank you champion for your videos also for your books i was learning a lot with your books thanks

[@rolotomase1440]

The Travis Haley video is mostly good. I don't care what he says about the eyes closed thing but I'm sure he has an explanation for it. He probably says 1/2 as much big words as he used too. He is a real shooter and he can teach and has his followers - many of whom would benefit learning from him. Probably a bunch of people making fun of him would benefit as well. YMMV.

[@trevor3659]

I have two PDPs, one marked 2022 and one 2023(bought like two weeks ago). Both do the dead trigger thing

[@boomee78]

You bought it in 2023, but was it made in 2023 the changehappenedd in February of this year for 4 inch and 4.5 inch pdps

[@trevor3659]

@@boomee78 only 3 inch and 4.5 inch? Why would they change some models but not the others? My 2023 PDP is a 4” lol

[@boomee78]

@trevor3659 i ment to say 4.5 and 4 inch i corrected my statement. Just becuase you bought it in 2023 dosent mean its a 2023 pdp. Im telling you what walther has said directly you gotta problem with that take it up with them. I'd say keep shooting and enjoy your 🔫. Learn what to do when in close contact of it bothwrs you move one. It was a feature in the pistol for the german police dept i like the feature since i use it durring dry fire. Hopefully people will be sellong them cheap. One thing on the internet and everyone looses there mind lol.

[@trevor3659]

@@boomee78 it was made in 2023, it’s stamped 2023. Must’ve been pre-February. I’m not getting rid of my PDP’s any time soon. My first one I bought to compete with and I liked it so much I bought a smaller one to carry. Imo this is such a small thing that it’s basically a non-issue. But I can understand why some people are concerned by it

[@lovetopew9054]

My 5” PDP was bought a year ago and it exhibits the dead trigger thing. FWIW.

[@boomee78]

It was changed in 2023 its designed that way on purpose its not a big deal. Ither departments are using the pdp

[@swiftaudi]

Glad to hear Walther fixed the flaw Walther is awesome!

[@JamezGrimm]

Bought my PDP a month ago and have not had this issue :D just adding my two cents since everyone else seems to want to do the same. 😂

[@abigger04]

That’s interesting about the turnover of USPSA membership. I didn’t realize it was such a short cycle.

[@machiavellireborn7541]

FYI Caniks also do the dead trigger thingy, since they are clones. Wouldn't surprise me if the old ppq does it too.

[@S1deshowRob]

I can barely replicate the issue on my competition gun, the slide has to be like two millimeters out of battery to have that happen, any further and it’s fine. I have a hard time foreseeing a scenario where someone will push my slide out of battery just the right amount to cause this issue especially if there’s a full sized light attached for stand-off. Seems like a non issue to me at least with my particular model

[@Soloman021]

My Gen 1 PDP has this issue and my dad bought a PDP pro 3 months ago and it has the same issue. Its not a problem for us because we aren't carrying them in a duty/CC context (home defense and competition for me) but unless Walther fixed it in the last three months they haven't fixed it.

[@Osprey1994]

It's not fixable, it's just how the pistol design works. If you want to avoid the dead trigger you need a light that protrudes in front of the pistol. If you have a light that does this, then you are fine as it acts as a standoff device.

[@boomee78]

Its not a problem carrying them in a duty condition i would switch to on at my own agency. Walther switched in February you may want to check when your pistol was made jist becuase you bought it in 2023 dosent mean it was made in 2023

[@taylorbrown3286]

When was the Walther PDP trigger fixed?

[@surratt95]

The Frogman thing is in response to a dispute he had with Billy Barton. Who did a video response to some comments Frogman had.

[@Scorch789]

Where’s the Haley video?

[@musicman1eanda]

I would like to know as well

[@BarrowX]

It's in the video description here.

[@gordo3697]

I only tried once on the vp9 couldnt get it to do that the frame seems to be much nicer as well

[@ZeusHands]

So I’ve recently discovered that if you install the PDT trigger from Walther in the PDP this issue goes away. I’m not sure if this applies to aftermarket triggers though.

[@zeebinks17]

White oak armory for the same price, are you still choosing BCM?

[@K-bob_45]

Honestly it never crossed my mind to vote or participate in the political process of USPSA. It beat the hell out of shooting static at 25 yard bullseyes and you didn’t need a stupid fishing vest. It’s not a livelihood for most participants.

[@YdoIneedahandle869]

What’s the issue with the pdp? Friend has one but haven’t heard of this

[@mitchimuus]

My Walther 4.5" PDP does not do that.

[@chilidem]

Don't just search and assess, become situationally aware.

[@ZeusHands]

I’ve got a Dec 2022 dom PDP I just picked up and it still has the trigger “feature”

[@boomee78]

Because it wasnt change till 2023 its not a issue its how it was made

[@ZeusHands]

@@boomee78 oh it’s definitely an issue

[@boomee78]

@@ZeusHands maybe from your perspective it jist becuase one agency says no dosent mean oh my goodneas this gun is no good. But you do u booboo

[@ZeusHands]

@@boomee78 well in my opinion my perspective is the only one that matters? It’s my gun and I’m carrying it to protect myself. I didn’t say at any point it’s a bad gun (on the contrary I think it’s a fantastic gun)or that I’d be replacing it. I just stated the DOM and that it still has the issue.

[@boomee78]

@@ZeusHands and i explained that it dosent have the feature anymore on pdps that were built starting i 2023 if you check with walther you can find you actually build date

[@FoVeSx]

You recently taught my brother in a course! You gonna check out / talk about the Springfield Echelon any time soon?

[@Rubeless]

It’s a pistol that is similar to a Glock, like all other striker guns.

[@CA.0verview]

Travis ,don’t tell he also hasn’t turned a new leaf yet.

[@johns6147]

What range? What area?

[@AprendeAEntrenarPR]

I kind of love how people keep thinking occluding the dot is an ‘advanced technique’ and a means to show off. Every time I hear people complaining about eye boxes to make up for poor alignment or to look through it, I mention occluding the dot and some people just lose their shit. 😂

[@AlexanderSotelo]

Just watched the Haley video. The people nob-slobbing in the comments is pretty funny. Probably some of the same people that comment imma get kilt in the streets on my videos.

[@andychanny]

People and you videos so you can tell them what to think about the videos?

[@dkmgm2011]

BRB. I gotta watch this Jedi Master Haley bullshit. 🤣

[@dkmgm2011]

I watched it, I kinda get it, I'm not gonna knock him. Seemed like the point of the video was to show that it doesn't take all day at the range to "calibrate" yourself. But that's only if you're already familiar with your equipment, the drills and have strong fundamentals. Making the video concise was just proving his point that the training could be concise. I think the weird shit wouldn't seem so weird if he explained himself a little better. The blind gun fu master stuff does seem a little over the top and most of what he preached doesn't really matter to me. Is it training? Sure. Is it good advice for everyone? Meh.

[@zplitterz]

He is talking about aligning to feet, hips, body to the target.

[@seanwhite304]

I watched the Travis video and i dont understand why you need ti shoot with your eyes closed to kinestheticily aligned . I've been watching Travis since the Magpul Dynamic days . Frongman TACTICAL / Jason seems like hes out dated when it comes to certain things . I did lose some respect when he broke down Lucas / Trex video . What he was saying does not make sense . Im not in the know but just seemed off to me .

[@restoready6013]

same here. That sounded like an old guy shaking his hand at the sky. the TREX vid he analyzed was great in terms of demonstrating dry fire applicability in the real world.

[@cubanchurchill]

Ben- quick question ?? How many people have you killed or at least tell us how many times you’ve been shot at ? Just a quick question ? Thanks

[@jerryg855]

How you gonna make a video talking about a PDP change without actually referencing what you are referring to. So everyone that clicks on this video with no knowledge of some prior discussion is just boned

[@PinGorilla]

Haley's video is just a soup of words. Difficult to follow along or get anything meaningful from him.

[@GLOCKsh00ter24]

That Haley video was a remake from one he did a while back, showing the same drills if I'm remembering correctly. Nothing new from him. Just weird shit he does that may or may not have any merit.

[@nedflanders5649]

This comment section is cringe.

[@zplitterz]

These guys were in war. Can shoot. And are offering advice to beginners. A champion does not adhere to a shared training idea. So what. To each their own.

[@felixdewinter3484]

You know we lost that war right? To quote Zap Brannigan parodying Donald Trump, “I like winners. Not losers”.

[@dchil15]

Being in a gunfight just means you're unlucky or searching for it. It doesn't mean you're any good at shooting. It doesn't mean you know what you're doing. It definitely doesn't mean you know how to teach shooting. Lots of people out there doing shit that they can't explain logically, in everything they do in life.

[@nathanielmoore9627]

@@felixdewinter3484what does losing a war have to do with the combat experience of guys who have been there and done that? You can be really good at your job and lose the war because of people up top. I think if you actually let the guys on the ground instead of politicians be in charge of the war we’d more than likely win all our conflicts and wars.

[@nathanielmoore9627]

⁠@@dchil15​​⁠I think it’s safe to say if you are in a unit that regularly sees combat and are effective at completing your objectives, especially in a sof setting I think it does show you have some competence in shooting, teaching and being good at what you do. Those units wouldn’t be as successful otherwise. Obviously that doesn’t de facto make them experts in their fields. And you should still listen cautiously to what these people are saying but I think you shouldn’t write them off so easily. Most shooters only have experience shooting competition or flat ranges. These individuals actually have experience doing actual gun fighting. At the very least I think it’s important to consider what they are saying.

[@dchil15]

@@nathanielmoore9627 at the end of the day, shooting is shooting. To give you the benefit of the doubt, what you're talking about isn't shooting. It's tactics. That's everything around shooting, not shooting.

[@goodluck2522]

Lol Travis used so many words and said nothing that whole video