Valoi 360 vs Essential Film Holder

[@Photo_Cyclist]

These _very_ detailed reviews are the reason why we love Hashem. I don't know how would I had done without him and this channel. Thank you, really!

[@pushingfilm]

Thanks! Sometimes I feel like these type of videos go way too long, but I know that some people appreciate the details, even if they skip through.

[@Photo_Cyclist]

@@pushingfilm then, as goes the Italian saying, "you know your chickens" lol. As in, you know very well how details matter for us film freaks and how even little things can determine a purchase decision! Don't ever think you're too tedious in your analyses, worst case scenario as you say, one goes straight where he wants to skip! But I think the majority of us is genuinely interested in the details you lay out so good. Cheers from the South of Italy!

[@pushingfilm]

@@Photo_Cyclist thanks man, really appreciate the support! Haha South Italy must be nice around now with summer around the corner 😁

[@jxjango]

@@Photo_Cyclist Totally!

[@arildedvardbasmo490]

Hi! I'm from Valoi: About the wheels, they are indeed not the final ones. The rubber on the final ones is softer so that they are considerably easier to move. I really appreciate the good and honest review!

[@pushingfilm]

Hey Arild, that's great to know! And thanks for saying that 🙂 I'm looking forward to seeing the release and future developments.

[@msandersen]

I just got my kickstarter Advancer kit today; I've assembled it, but haven't had a chance to test it yet. I have no problems with the o-ring wheels, they're easy to move, nor wobble of the mask. It has the diffuser of course, which it seems should be standard. I need to study up on software before testing, and hopefully your instruction videos will be ready soon.

[@CasualDHK]

Did you make the product out of gold with diamonds as studs to advance?

[@KamilLeszczuk]

@@pushingfilm Has the 120 film flatness got improved in the final version?

[@Irnbruist]

thanks sooo much for this comparison, was almost buying the Valoi but definitely will buy the EFH now 👌🏼

[@LaughingStock_]

I have both. Buy the Valoi.

[@Irnbruist]

@@LaughingStock_ what do you like more with the Valoi?

[@xanderyashnikov]

Thank you. Now I am completely happy with my EFH. I used to have those thoughts lurking inside of my head about the film advancing being a huge deal...

[@pushingfilm]

No worries! It is nice to have, especially if you go through a lot of 35mm. But in my case I don't think I scan enough of my own film to justify it (I mainly do selective rescans, all my black and white for entire rolls, and the occasional motion picture color film)

[@deltadave44]

...plus, the EFH has the option to scan with the sprockets (which I prefer)

[@KimHojbergJensen]

Thanks a lot. I have the Essential Film Holder and struggle with light leaks. I was considering to try the Valoi as it is more closed in the sides. I have ordered the mask only for a start, to place it directly on the light panel. Using a Kaiser Slimlite.

[@pushingfilm]

Nice, I'd be interested to see how you go!

[@mastaw]

Hello! Is there an update on this? How was the experience?

[@sbarronmd]

how did it go. i too was thinking of buying just Valoi masks without the base.

[@briglnai]

never thought about scanning emulsion side up, thx for the tip. Also as a EFH owner I think I stay with the EFH, don't need the advancer really...

[@eladbari]

@7:19 - "Due to Negative Lab Pro converting differently each time". You wanna say if you aim to scan a few rolls of the same session- NLP might give you different color casts /conversions for each frame because of the way it works? No way to set your conversation setting for a master shot and apply that to the rest of your frames to get consistency?

[@tonyhayes9827]

Great video. Practical, pragmatic, real life experience. Pure genius. Thanks Hashem.

[@pushingfilm]

Thank you! Haha that's how I generally try to approach these things, even if I sometimes cave to desire and buy an overpriced Leica 😅 Much appreciated!

[@tonyhayes9827]

@@pushingfilm Ah yes. The inspiration is in the Leica and the Leica lives in the right side of the brain. The scanning is in the science and lives in the left side of our brain. Put the two together and you have a beautiful mind.

[@pushingfilm]

@@tonyhayes9827 Lol well said 😄

[@TheFilmFellow]

Great comparison/review Hashem! To me for the money of the Valoi I’d like to see a build in diffusion panel and a build in 95+ CRI rated light source. You’d have to think that is the future. The “plug and play” mentality if you will of these days.

[@chrispatmore8944]

Valoi do have a stand for the Raleno PLV-S104 light in development. It was almost ready to release with all the other parts but they delayed it to concentrate on getting the rest of the system finished and shipping.

[@mitchkite9354]

Great comparison video. I have started a scanning project to digitize 70+ years worth of photos. I chose the EFH based on cost and flexibility. I have already digitized about 5000 images and the EFH has worked flawlessly. I have mostly120 film/slides and 35mm film/slides. I was also capturing photos from 4x5 film. I was able to create my own masks for the 4x5. I also have some Instamatic 110 film that I am digitizing through my DIY mask. I obviously haven't used the Valoi system, but I have enjoyed using the EFH and it is super fast to digitize my film.

[@ashtrickey9367]

Really great video dude! I've had the EFH for a while now and feel a lot better about having it after watching this. I'd be keen to see how the Negative Supply compares but the price point really puts me off!

[@chrispatmore8944]

Good and fair review. After experimenting with some rather dodgy homemade rigs that kinda worked, I tried the Pixl-Latr, but found it didn't handle cut negs very well, so I returned it and bought the Essential Film Holder. I've now digitised thousands of shots from my archives with it (I had to do something during lockdown). I found that occasionally the film wouldn't pass through the out slot, but came up with a simple solution - putting the film in through the exit. I did back the Valoi on Kickstarter, but only ordered the 35mm holder as it looked much better for shorter lengths of cut negs - I have a lot in strips of four from high street labs. It should be arriving in the next few weeks. Valoi are also developing a metal stand for the popular Raleno light that will hold all the different parts of their system, which I will also order when it's ready. Hopefully it will also hold the EFH. I prefer to use a flatbed scanner for 120 as it gives a much higher resolution than using a DSLR, and a lot cheaper than buying a dedicated 120 film scanner. One thing I have noticed with the EFH is it doesn't really work with film strips shorter than four frames. A friend asked me to digitise his old B&W archive, while most were in strips of six, I came across seven sheets of negs that had been cut into singles, twos or threes! I found another workaround for this nightmare. I simply used an old strip of film to push them through the EFH. It's a a bit time consuming, especially trying to get the negs back into the neg files, but it worked, and he's happy. My old Nikon Coolscan 4000 is now redundant and ready for eBay.

[@pushingfilm]

Hey thanks, and interesting findings also! A trick I first saw on Ribsy's channel that works really well; is cutting the end of difficult film slightly diagonally to pass through the EFH. I was gonna include it in this video but it was getting long, and the same trick may not work with the Valoi advancer due to a straight end being easier to feed into the wheels. Try it on your next roll though! A good point on shorter strips... I luckily don't have many that short but know they are a pain to deal with. Agreed on the future potential of the Valoi ecosystem, there's a still a lot of potential. And yeah, 120 is probably better off on a flatbed unless you have a camera with more than 30 or so megapixels.

[@glennz8352]

I have the same EFH problem with film strips cut by labs into fewer than 4 frames. I tried pushing them with another strip, but it always overlaps rather than aligning with the short strip so it can push. My only option is unscrewing the top layer of the EFH and moving the short strip by hand, then replacing the top layer and shooting. This is very time consuming, and it is still not easy to align in position for shooting. But it works and it’s my only option. I am curious to know how the Valoi would handle a single frame or strip or 2. The wheels would not be useful - it looks like it might not even be possible to push such short strips through.

[@robertbatey1311]

@@glennz8352 hey Glen thanks to you and Chris Patmore for the great EFH tips! Here’s one for you...for feeding in really short film strips I attach a 15x50mm sticky note. They peel off easily once you get the film fed in. And you can reattach it to help slide the film back out the input slot.

[@laurendimatteo7642]

Have you had a chance to use the Skier Copy Box? If so, what are your thoughts on it? Thanks!

[@bobs4805]

The Skier box is very good.

[@1234Lino1234]

im happy i ordered the right one, thanks for your honest review. im now trying to build my own camera stand. wish my luck :D

[@pushingfilm]

No probs! That sounds great, I hope it works out 🙂

[@detleframich1072]

Say thank you for this video!! I miss a cutter, for cut the frames and the film!!👌😎

[@alenmilic1296]

'Expansion slots, like the n64'... I always knew i liked you and now I know why! haha

[@EstebanFonsecaAR]

With the Essential Film Holder I found extremely easy to cut my own base mask for old 126 film slides :)

[@pushingfilm]

Nice work!

[@mitchkite9354]

I also have the EFH and also cut my own masks for the odd size film I encounter.

[@EstebanFonsecaAR]

@@mitchkite9354 I cut my mask for the 126 slides from the packaging cardboard the EFH came in, haha need to do something more permanent :) Having said that, it's very easy to adapt any other odd format, I'm cutting another mask for some 3d slides I have (stereo realist 3d I think)

[@mitchkite9354]

@@EstebanFonsecaAR Yeah, the flexibility of EFH is great. I created an adjustable mask for some of the odd sized film I have. I also cut a piece of plexiglass that fits on the EFH. It gives me a flat surface and a larger area than the 120 mask to lay the film on.

[@jaeAre200]

Awwww thank you Hashem!!!! THIS is the video I was waiting for. I was literally about to DM you about the difference hahaha.

[@pushingfilm]

Jae! Haha 😁 Maybe for you in Europe shipping is at least cheaper for Valoi? But man you guys have that crazy Tax! Hey let's do another video chat sometime 👍

[@jxjango]

Thanks a lot Hashemm for these detailed reviews with such simplicity and honesty. You are doing great work. Keep going! Also, what would you pick between EFH and Pixl Latr knowing that you haven’t used the latter. Just need your take on it. Thanks again.

[@pushingfilm]

No worries mate, glad it helps. I would definitely pick EFH, unless I was doing 4x5 or only scanning individual frames very occasionally. I would prefer the raised location from the diffuser, and less surface to surface rubbing compared to the modular clip-on gates.

[@jxjango]

@@pushingfilm Thank you. Looking forward to more.

[@vangstr]

Did Valoi fix the flatness issue of the film holder sitting in the advancer?

[@pushingfilm]

Yep, I believe this was addressed a while back with the final release (mine was a beta unit) Some other improvements have been made too.

[@GreyGhost-r4z]

Who is making a 4x5 scanning frame ????

[@mrdrgonzo]

Great review, seems the Valoi is a bit over engineered, looks like a good solid unit though

[@toulcaz31]

Solid review Hashem. I hope NS can send their products your way for review. Any chance someone can 3d print the rodsgear holder in Australia? That would really close the loop on this topic.

[@pushingfilm]

Negative Supply would be pretty cool to try! Wow, I had only heard of rodsgear but had a little look now, seems like he's put in a real good effort! I'm sure someone could print it. Duck after Duck advancer looks great too. It's a good time to be a film photographer 😁

[@toulcaz31]

@@pushingfilm rodsgear is based on duck after duck open source design. He calls the holder D&R (Ducks after Ducks & Rodsgear).

[@slothsarecool]

My Plustek 120 Pro doesn’t have any of these issues and the results are amazing 😅, not sure camera scanning is worth it

[@pushingfilm]

Nice, where'd you get it and what was the price?

[@yuanfrancois6640]

The EFH has a tendency of casting a shadow on the edge of the film causing bright marks that resemble fogging. It is also more likely to scratch film. The feeding issue I think you can solve by making a triangular cut at the edge of the film, thats what I do for the EFH. I hope Valoi sorts out those kinks because it could be a good negative supply alternative. Happy with my EFH so far though

[@pushingfilm]

I haven't experienced this or the higher tendency to scratch film personally, but interesting to hear your findings! I believe the shadow issue is dependant on the lens used. Yes, the triangular or diagonal cut works very well for feeding into the EFH, but it wouldn't be as ideal for the Valoi because it would then make it harder to feed into the wheels.

[@ruivasco5122]

Excellent review, thx. I have several 6x7 slides cut one by one or two. Which of the two systems do you find more useful? Thank you very much.

[@pushingfilm]

Thanks! Are they mounted?

[@ruivasco5122]

@@pushingfilm , the 6x7 are not mounted. Thx

[@pushingfilm]

In that case, I'd say neither of these is ideal for your application. It would be better to use a system with clip-on film strip holders. Maybe even consider a flatbed scanner.

[@ruivasco5122]

@@pushingfilm Your answer is very precious. Thx All the Best.

[@VariTimo]

How is just using the Valoi 35mm holder on a Kaiser light table vs the Essential film holder? I just ordered the Valoi 35mm holder on it’s own since it’s so much cheaper and I already have a Kaiser light table.

[@pushingfilm]

I think that would work fine! I think you might even get the little rubber feet included for the standalone mask, and in your setup it sounds like it would work well. It might be worth making a black card/paper mask though around the Valoi film holder to shield any extra stray light.

[@VariTimo]

@@pushingfilm It looked like to comes with rubber feet. That’s one of the main reasons I got it over the EFH. And I’m scanning with the blinds down so stray light isn’t a problem.

[@pushingfilm]

@@VariTimo nice! Blinds down is ideal. But what I meant is the extra light from the kaiser light table shining up towards the lens. Most people don't have issues... but if you do, making a simple mask might be worth a try 👍

[@VariTimo]

@@pushingfilm Good to know. I haven’t have any problems like that with my Lomography Digitalizer. It’s pretty crappy in most other ways tho.

[@yashyeri4827]

I'd be more than happy to know how do you keep the viltrox LED panel flat inspite of having knob and a battery attached to it. I am looking forward to buy it but keeping it flat on the baseboard is something i am worried about. Can you help me with it?

[@pushingfilm]

Hey, it just sits flat on the battery 🙂

[@yashyeri4827]

@@pushingfilm super! Thank you.

[@pushingfilm]

@@yashyeri4827 no worries!

[@ckelin13]

Great comparison review. Whenever you shoot film from the emulsion side, you will need to horizontally flip every frame in post-editing. People recommending this method always seem to forget to mention that.

[@owainshaw]

Thanks for the thorough comparison, Hashem, it's great to see all the little features that might not be obvious but which you notice in real world use. By the way, since we shared a few messages back and forth about Zeiss 50mm lenses, I eventually bought a Planar and it arrived recently (International shipping took a while). It was one of those where there wasn't a bad option. Now to put it through its paces.

[@Zetaphotography]

It would be great to see Capture One and Film

[@ayfj4572]

Great review Hashem. For my info what video is your mirror aligning method in? I am interested to see if I'm doing it right.

[@MD-en3zm]

If you use a wider aperture to reduce depth of field, you can probably reduce that pattern from the light source.

[@Zetaphotography]

Which two companies combined to make a better film holder for scanning

[@Zetaphotography]

??? No Did I image a combination of these two

[@mp3remix171]

For me, i just ordered the 35mm valoi mask, feeding it by hand makes it a cheap alt for the efh, I also plan to push 4/5 frames through and then cut the neg for archiving, that might help with the curling problem! Thanks for the tip with the emulsion side!! Do you flip the image in post then?

[@pushingfilm]

Nice! Yep, I just select all and flip horizontal in lightroom

[@GeorgeStar]

I wasn't aware of the EFH. That looks like a great & affordable solution.

[@shamikchoudhury5924]

Well explained. A comparison with Negative Supply is on the wishlist. All said and done, I am still not convinced, whether digital scanning with these type of tools is a good option. Maybe my personal opinion. 1. Investment - comparing with flatbed scanner, I still cannot justify the investment, considering you will buy all the equipment including camera. 2. Resolution - compared to other methods, it depends on the camera resolution what's is the highest you will get. 3. Cost - Does it come cheap per roll. Not sure. 4. For whom - it's is not for part time amature photographer like me whose primary job is quite different. I know you will say, I have to decide what works for me, I know that. But I am using this forum to raise some basic questions. Hopefully did not hurt anybody.

[@pushingfilm]

Thanks, and I agree with your points. I generally don't suggest it if you don't already have a suitable camera, and perhaps even macro lens. I happen to have already owned a 5D IV for shooting weddings and a macro lens for years beforehand. Unless you run a small scanning operation, I don't it's worth buying all the gear just to scan film. I still repurpose my existing tripod too. It's great however that there are more and more options on the market for people of all types of preference! Even for automated scanners there are options like the pacific image scanner still made and sold.

[@behindeachfilmgrain]

I spoke to the developer for this product and it looks like it could be a pretty good looking design.

[@pushingfilm]

It is a very nice design! I'm hoping it does well and continues to improve, because it's great for the film photography community and industry. Hope you're safe and well Lang 👍

[@behindeachfilmgrain]

@@pushingfilm I’m hoping to get out more this year as Mask Mandates have been lifted for the majority of the State I live in but continue to wear masks in smaller establishments in our State. Have you shot with CineStill 50D yet? I just uploaded my results and I’m on the fence with the results! A warmer ton and a bit of color shifting depending on the angle of the sun above when shooting gives it a different color tone. Not good for landscape photography for sure! Haha!

[@pushingfilm]

@@behindeachfilmgrain nice! I tried it once in 35mm but didn't like it much. The halation made the highlights look too pink and hard to colour balance. It was a lot nicer in the actual Vision3 stock in 120 when I tried that though!

[@behindeachfilmgrain]

@@pushingfilm I need to try some of that myself and see what results I can get, but the CineStill 50 D wasn’t that bad as some of my images turned out to be pretty cool looking!

[@chrpauls]

This is really helpful and well done - thank you!

[@pushingfilm]

Glad it helped, thanks for watching!

[@keimahane]

I only have a DX/APS-C sized sensor on my DSLR, is that ok for scanning with DSLR?

[@pushingfilm]

Yeah that works fine!

[@Wisconsin.pikachu]

Buy a old pc monitor and rip out the lcd, nice large diffused light. Get some black foam board to cover most the screen and cut out a area just for your film carrier 👍 cheap with nice diffused light recycling material 👌

[@furman87]

Great review, especially for a noob like me. And it was genius how you subtly bragged about your big hands...

[@felixsturmair4854]

Very helpful- thanks!

[@erichstocker8358]

I use a handmade unit I purchased from Taiwan and it is beautifully made. It also includes a diffuser and a light. It cost less than the Valoi 360. I think from functionality and price point the pixl-latr and the EFH probably offer the best units. I do have and occasionally use my pixl-latr. I have students that use and love the EFH. I just can't see the Valoi being that good for the price point especially with cut film.

[@c.millare]

What's the name of the product?

[@elsueniero5922]

Very useful, thanks a lot

[@PASquared]

First you saved me ~$2000 US comparing the results of EFH to a dedicated film scanner like a Frontier or Nikon Coolscan. Then you saved me ~$400 US comparing the ease (or lack) of use of these two products. For 120 it seems EFH is the way to go. I now have the EFH and it is definitely rather annoying to use, but at least it was not very expensive. I'm hoping Andrew of EFH continues to improve it.

[@pushingfilm]

Haha glad to hear! There's still a place, and advantage to most of the options out there. Some people hate even the idea of using their camera to digitize film 😅 yeah I hope he keeps improving it too

[@PASquared]

@@pushingfilm It really is all about tradeoffs! Cost, ease of use, sharpness, have to decide what is most important! Thanks again!

[@jacobsed8432]

Omg I love you 😭

[@michaelsaks4744]

Very well explained. Lol I got my notes well made now

[@dankspangle]

Generally when feeding film through masks it helps to cut the end of the film at an angle. If it's cut straight across, the whole width of the film has to go through the slots in one go and the centre of the film can get caught. Cutting at an angle means one side of the film goes through the entry or exit point at the edge first, then the rest of the film is guided through.

[@pushingfilm]

Yep, aware of this method and it works well for the EFH. I found with the Valoi though that it would make it harder to then feed into the wheels

[@vittoriosommese]

300 euros..

[@dbenedict357]

They should just include a rubber ring at each point instead.

[@pushingfilm]

This wouldn't be ideal, because the 35mm positioned rings would roll over the film when scanning 120!

[@elsocket]

Just put both sets of o-ring and no problem, you do not have to move anything any more...

[@pushingfilm]

...Until you want to scan 120 and have the inner rings messing up your film with some nice tracks down the middle

[@CasualDHK]

Paying that much for a film holder.

[@milesmonroe65]

Oh yeah.. and Negative Lab Pro... Silverfast... Vuescan... oh dear.🤦‍♂️

[@kenh.5903]

My objective for film scanning is "best quality possible" as opposed to "convenience and speed". When you look at a print on the wall you don't see "convenience and speed"; you only see "quality". Most of these holders are overpriced junk. If you scroll your film through and it doesn't clampdown during exposure, then the film is definitely not flat enough to get the sharpest image.

[@ufukkiblat]

In conclusion: Sounds good, doesn't work! *Trump's voice

[@장준환-r2e]

gooooood thank you