Valve Spring Set Up For the DNA Heads (Youtube 355 SBC!)

[@NTRGFX]

would be interesting to see a test of 1.6 rockers when this is complete on the dyno

[@cuttersperformance]

I will see what i can do! Would be interesting

[@hotrodswoodshed7405]

don't miss the fact that 1.6 rockers has to be considered when checking for coil bind also

[@87PontiacGP]

This is great info for when im done grinding my vortec heads, and having them milled at the machine shop. Thanks a bunch, great vid!

[@LeelandDomino]

Right on Pat!! Super stoked to see how this build performs. Appreciate you bro🤙🏻

[@cuttersperformance]

Thanks brother!

[@camposvazquez]

@@cuttersperformance Pat.. thank you for your info... I have a 2006 holiday rambler 33pbd motorhome with the 8.1 vortec and Allison 6 speed with overdrive transmission... 4000 rpm is the max on rare occasions.. mostly at 2100 rpm for 62 mph on cruise control What cyl. head.... Intake manifold and cam do you recommend for maximum fuel economy mpg.. Any other mods I should consider? Thank you

[@MegaKencam]

Thanks Pat! I had been looking forward to this video.

[@mikegillam1000]

Another great video! I can't wait to see what this does on the dyno

[@hotrodswoodshed7405]

Absolutely SOLID great advice... I'm well aware.. but sometimes we need to hear it again for clarity. I'm building the exact same engine/head combo.. except with a .100 dome piston. And a oval track cam, solid 242/250 @.530 lift 106 lobe sep. For that mid torque saturation. In a street 1939 chevy truck

[@briang4470]

Excellent video, I would highly suggest a huge disclaimer though to check and scrutinize EVERY single new/replacement part, for example if you buy loaded cylinder heads, disassemble and inspect very very carefully. There are more bad/defective parts on the market right now than there are good parts, even high dollar name brand parts have been having alot of failure and quality control issues lately. Ever since 2020 parts quality and production has hit rock bottom, soo many common parts have became discontinued or put on an indefinite backorder with no guarantee of a restock. This isn't just affecting speed/performance parts, it has been difficult to even get normal parts for modern everyday cars and the parts you can get are absolute garbage, NOS (new old stock) parts are becoming extremely sought after and prices are skyrocketing. Right now it's hard to be a hotrodder and even harder to be an engine builder or a mechanic simply due to the parts not being available or dead right out of the box, hopefully things will turn around soon but currently all aftermarket parts are sketchy.

[@cuttersperformance]

Yeah its insane right now! Scary

[@Amack1964]

What rocker studs guide plates and pushrods where used

[@hotrodswoodshed7405]

VERY GOOD video... the importance of checking valvetrain components can not be overstated! i found that even .100 longer valves are BARELY enough.

[@cuttersperformance]

Yeah i was surprised to find that they worked out perfectly without shims. Not usually the case

[@hotrodswoodshed7405]

@PISS-CUTTER Performance mine also. I only used a .015 shim on a very few. Target 1.75@125lbs, I stayed conservative at 1.76-77 to help save springs. I had different springs but , Again... your similar results give me confirmation

[@LJC5865]

Right on time..my 1st build and have the same bare block now waiting..definitely going roller with great lightweight cylinder heads needing to know understand how to check them. Was thinking the ramjet cam but will see how this turns out. Really appreciate you doing this.

[@tomrose6292]

I would recommend longer studs and stud griddles... especially with that 3.48 stroke .higher rpms with studs dancing around especially mounted in aluminum.

[@TheMrmottoh]

Thanks for the videos!! Added up the parts list, these will cost you what a set of AFRs do. Not counting the port work or the other upgrades. We will see how mine do, just ordered all the parts to put a set together.

[@cuttersperformance]

You 100% correct. Now with the price of the DNA castings almost doubled and the price of the other components gone up, your often better off just buying a pair of AFRs, Blueprint or darts. You can then do abit of porting to them. Just a heads up the youtube 355 got delayed as i had to borrow parts for customers engines but a dyno session and testing is in the works

[@goratgo1970]

Way late here & catching up - about to order the valves for my DNA's with port work - the Elgin's at Amazon list as HPV-14Q8 11/32 stems, but somewhere heard the guides are an odd size? This is for 4 bolt '72 Vette 350 block with 383 Eagle crank, KB Silvolite .060, recon stock rods, Summit 1103 cam, matched springs, Comp roller tips, and for budget's sake plan to use my old Weiand Team G dual plane (divider mostly removed), headers, with MSD Atomic to replace stock TBI in my '91 RS Camaro conv. Jasper 700r, G92 rearend. Sure some Great videos!

[@cuttersperformance]

These ones had 11/32 guides, but some similar casting come with 8mm (5/16)

[@Gearhead.327]

You did an excellent job of explaining how to set them up. Top marks!

[@cbobscountrybunker2312]

I would love to see a vortec fuel mileage build. I think a vortec head on a 327 or 350 with some compression 10:1 long rod mild cam could work well. Gas is going up, a g body or nova with a 5 speed. Thanks for all the good info

[@vintagedashboard6810]

I want to see how well it tests out afterwards. I’m doing the same but with a budget it’s taking me a while to get all the engine parts.

[@zAvAvAz]

kooL

[@aliciaANDanthonySandoval]

Love this build

[@BDauto86]

Thanks for sharing Pat. I might try a set of those heads and this info helps. I also wanted to mention some LS6 springs are actually good to .570 lift depending on which brand and retainer.

[@cuttersperformance]

Thats correct but the ls6 style springs recommended by summit are only good for .550 and the pressure is questionable for that cam aswell

[@jacobjarvis2545]

@@cuttersperformance could i run these heads with self alighning rocker without the guide plates? Will the .100 valves accommodate the self alighning rockers? Reason being i have already done the work to some vortecs and was goin to use parts i already have.

[@tiffanybrantley7039]

This is very helpful. Thank you and keep up the good work.

[@johnhutchings5112]

Hi Pat, I have many sets of Vortecs and I just got a set of bare DNA’s for $350. Do you think you would ever do a flow comparison between the two? I appreciate the information that you convey.😊

[@JoshF89]

Very informative, thank you for the video!

[@chickenfoundation9323]

Would of loved if you showed how to use the valve spring mic

[@rmarzino]

I love your engine combinations. Just wondering if you dyno this DNA heads 355?

[@donmilani129]

Wow 😮 Great info!

[@Schlipperschlopper]

Always use 15W50 or 20W50 oil that countains between 1100 and 1500 PPM ZDDP and does not exeed API SF CD!

[@cliffwright9842]

Pat, II'm building a 383, I do have 3 of these heads, one spare I guess. Should I change the set up on spring and cam. I like the Hot Cam but Summit has similar cams for retro fit roller. I just want your suggestion on good but budget hardware. Thanks 🙏

[@cuttersperformance]

Contacts Competition Products. They have a very affordable drop in kit for those heads

[@oscarpuente2029]

very informative!!

[@shootermcgavin2819]

normal valve springs do a lot of weird movements at high rpm. Beehive springs are more controlled. Tapered springs are yet even better

[@Loves_to_fish]

Can you tell me what studs you used please? The part #. Thanks Pat you're the best on YT!!

[@cuttersperformance]

Summit Racing Part# Sum-G1675

[@Loves_to_fish]

@@cuttersperformance thank you man you're the best!!

[@cuttersperformance]

@@Loves_to_fish no problem anytime

[@Loves_to_fish]

Could i get by with non-adjustable guide plates? And could i do the same setup with a meiling 22280 cam im at 495in/502ex? Sorry for all the questions, but you're very knowledgeable.

[@cuttersperformance]

@justrelaxand69 if you're using a dna or similar head, I would go adjustable as some have pushrod clearance alignment thats abit off

[@PHILLY214]

Putting these on a 383, just got em back from the machine shop

[@inscoredbz]

I have as comp cams xr294hr with the recommended 987 springs. Several people say that's not enough spring for the cam. I have +.100 valves, standard location 10° keepers and standard retainers. I'm thinking of going to a PAC 1218 or 1219 spring set. Do they have a 10° retainer for beehive springs? The installed height is 1.8 with the 987 springs. I know I will have to change to a spring locator, but would the beehive springs be a drop in after changing the spring seat to a spring locator and just installing the springs and retainers? I'm not sure if the retainers have the same location/height from the pocket. I hope I've experienced that well enough. I have the same heads btw

[@DesertRatFabrication]

Really good stuff, i want to put a mild solid lift cam in my 1978 SBC 350, i asked in another video if i could run stock springs if i keep lift at 480 or less, also can you recommend a good mild cam some lump and good bottom end, thanks Mike

[@cuttersperformance]

No, you'll probably have to upgrade springs. Who knows, what sort of pressure is left in those old springs

[@DesertRatFabrication]

@@cuttersperformance 👍👍

[@sleepy_moto2788]

Would this setup/compression ratio be good for turbo application? Yanking a vortec out of a Tahoe soon and looking to build something similar to this and want the ability to add boost later.

[@nickolausvassallo744]

What did you use for the retro fit lifters? Also looking for part number on the pushrods u used I have my heads setup the exact same way and have forged flat tops in a .030 over sbc

[@jonrice4483]

I am building a sbc 400 with stock 5.56 rods and crank. I am using ARP main & head studs and wavelock rod bolts. The pistons are old school TRW L2352F- 030 over pistons with Sealed Power gapless rings. Do you see a problem with piston to valve clearance using a hydraulic roller cam with .510/.525 intake/exhaust lift?

[@cuttersperformance]

Max lift isn't when the valve get close to the piston so you can't really tell by max lift numbers. It has more to do with the valve events. For the intake, the valve gets closest to the piston approx 5 to 15 degrees after TDC on the intake stroke. The ex its 5 to 15 degrees before TDC on the ex stroke. Im assuming your @.050 specs will be less than 240 with that lift, so chances are you'll have tons of clearance, but it's something that should always be checked

[@timmygun1]

Another great video Pat.

[@cuttersperformance]

Thanks man!

[@zAvAvAz]

are they a proper A356-T6 heat treat aluminum? the afr enforcer version of this head uses quality afr small mm diameter valve tubes for the smaller diameter valves for a little more enhanced help in port energy, maybe lighter weight, and maybe a few cfm in flow.

[@Dannymurmaid]

Great info! Glad I found your channel

[@KevinRoadrageGarage]

I'm curious,do aluminum heads have problems with threads? Header or intake bolts?

[@cuttersperformance]

Only if they are cross threaded

[@LJC5865]

Hello at the moment I'm thinking comp cams new evolution hydraulic Roller lifters and ramjet roller cam and roller rockers from somewhere. Aluminum heads even DNA if works. Idk Not into a budget so much..wish I didn't have so much work then gotta rest some. Be nice to start out with a trust fund, darn.

[@kellkell2888]

Is that retro-fit camshaft? If not what timing gears and chain u used to match up?

[@cuttersperformance]

Check out this video. it has the build details kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJynkqKgh86Xq7c

[@Candyvyorn_]

If you went up to a 2.05 or 2.08 valve would you need new valve seats or just the original ones recut

[@cuttersperformance]

Originals recut

[@Candyvyorn_]

Did you make a follow up video for this

[@cuttersperformance]

Had some delays with parts availability but its all together on the stand, running but just waiting to get on the dyno. Going to have some fun with this one

[@The_Freedom_Farm]

I got a LT4 Hot Cam for free from a friend. Would this setup but with 1.6 ratio rockers work well with that cam? I plan on running flat top hyper pistons , from what I can tell it should make a good combo?

[@zachwilson9608]

Hey sir! Love your videos and Vortec stuff but I can’t seem to get a good Vortec head. I even got a set of dart iron eagles used and they have worn out valve guides. So I’m just going to order these. A couple questions I have is what intakes work with these heads? Is it like old school 1986 and pre intakes ? Or is it a Vortec style intake ? I have both lol. And also can I use my stock rockers that came off my Vortec heads? I’ll use the guide plates like you said. Just trying to save money. Also I’m using a lt4 hot cam. So I was just thinking about running ls6 springs because they are cheap. Can I use the same spring locators that you listed ?

[@cuttersperformance]

The dart Iron eagles are a decent head. If you go back to one of my builds "the Saturday night special" it was a 355 with iron eagles 180cc and they worked quite well. These heads are drilled from pre 86 manifolds, but some of these heads are actually drilled for vortecs as well. You dont want to use vortec self aligning rocker arms with guide plates. Plus the vortec rocker arms shouldn't be used past .480 lift. My next video coming up will be about the budget L31 using a Lt4 hotcam that I dynoed last week. Lots of info you'll probably want, and it made more power than I expected

[@zachwilson9608]

Okay great thanks! Can I use the same spring locators with the ls6 springs that you listed ? That’s really the only part I’m still confused about. Trying to order parts. Thanks!

[@zachwilson9608]

I am ordering these aluminum heads so trying to find spring locators that work with the blue ls6 gm springs for these heads.

[@cuttersperformance]

@zachwilson9608 no those locators wont work with the LS6 springs. Your best bet is to reach out to competition products. They sell complete valve and spring packages for those heads

[@SubePelayo928]

I’m building an LS. It’s just a short block right now but I’m also building a 350. The cost to rebuild the 350 with ARP hardware is less than it would cost me to finish my LS with stock parts. I’m torn between the two. It’s going in a 1st gen 4runner. What would you run? I also have a set of the Aluminum DNA heads, cam, and intake for the 350. Holley Sniper will be ran on either motor

[@akaner22]

Dying to know the end out put of this build

[@cuttersperformance]

Had to borrow parts for customers but its all together now. Theres a big plan for this dyno session but its not set in stone yet so i haven't announced it. Sorry for the wait!

[@consumes]

Curious what size locators you ended up running ?

[@TheMrmottoh]

What length pushrods did you end up with for these heads? I copied the build and just want to double check my numbers are in the ball park. Not exactly the same cam, but very close.

[@cuttersperformance]

7.300 (+.100)

[@TheMrmottoh]

@PISS-CUTTER Performance I mesuared 7.200, thanks for the answer man. As always, appreciate the content.

[@codyreynolds6333]

I got some dna heads since I can copy you but I want to run a .600 lift roller but if i wanted to go bigger how do i figure that out without buying and could you do a video for cam selection I've been reading David vizards books but im dumb and the math doesn't make sense to me I havnt selected the ride to put it in have a 55 ford but want to tube chassis it so might do a 80 elcomino 4.88 9 inch locked high stall what ever is needed dual plane for the street cause I illegally race maybe a single for racing idk I want tourque over everything low end but want to run high 10s in the 1/4 at worst is their a formula for picking valve length havnt found one amd a good way to choose the cam off my wants id rather lean to stupid 1/8th mile quick then streetability but im going to drive it to but I'd rather be dumb and drive a race car so? Not sure how to go, i want to blow every Honda made off the road I've been in a rusty 74 camaro and whooped a Ferrari but it was 8th mile set up and its gone now and I didn't build it I want that again of course street light to street light not freeway of course for the idiots on here

[@russellholmes1514]

Could GM 19420455 work in place of the spring you chose?

[@TomSmith-cv8hk]

How did those rockers go with contact on the valve stem, would have been way over to the exhaust side ?

[@cuttersperformance]

Contact patch was quite good with the 7.300 push rods

[@flinch622]

If you clicked on recommended parts and went down the list... there are a number of springs available/recommended. I would call and double check - surely somebody did spintron testing for this 8803 cam.

[@franciscohuerta9860]

Yo pat would it make the same hp with an older 010 block?

[@cuttersperformance]

Yeah with a retro fit roller cam of the same specs

[@franciscohuerta9860]

@@cuttersperformance I got a lil 67-327 thinking on putting some 906s n a 276 voodoo or 284 comp / 700 Holley dp/ lt headers dual plain from jegs any thoughts hope for 390-425 hp

[@cuttersperformance]

@Francisco Huerta I have three levels of vortec headed budget combos im currently working on. From basically a stock L31 with a cam and mild porting to a 11:1 355 with heavily ported vortecs. If your not in a rush the info from those dyno pulls and cam specs will probably give you some insight to what you want for your combo. But 400hp is easily done with the righr setup on a 327

[@franciscohuerta9860]

@@cuttersperformance sounds nice brother n no rush at all .

[@E1337Jerk]

Hey pat I'm working on a 350 from a 76 k5 any caution on how much power is safe on stock rods?

[@cuttersperformance]

A good set of stock SBC rods with Arp bolts will take 400hp and 6500 RPM no problem, the later model PM rods will take 450 safely. Realistically, if you're building a 450hp+ engine or plan on pushing it past 6500 rpm on a regular basis, go to an aftermarket rod

[@E1337Jerk]

Thank you for the insight. Keep up the good work

[@nickortega9987]

What timing set do you have on the motor ive been seeing on different forums that you can't use a dobble roller set

[@bobbyd7140]

Can you please give me the part number for the rocker stud . My head is drilled for 3/8 bolt

[@Supanova70]

I am putting on a set of Dart iron heads. Without using the gasket should the head sit flat on the deck? mine does not...

[@cuttersperformance]

Yeah like just as a testing fit? The head should sit 100% flat on the block as long as the dowels on the block aren't mushroom or something causing it to to sit weird

[@Supanova70]

@@cuttersperformance It just looks like there is not enough clearance in the head itself maybe there's something broken off inside there

[@raybinker9472]

Hey Pat, is it ok to use springs that are a bit too much? I have a CompCam that if I use the dual springs it says use the 986-16, I have the 987-16 springs already installed on my heads, will they be too much? or do I need to cough up the money for the proper beehive springs and hardware. I have 1.5 & 1.6 roller rockers from Lunati.

[@cuttersperformance]

You will have no issues with those springs and a roller cam. If they are already installed I would run them

[@zachwilson9608]

Hey do you have to have a valve Job done on these heads or can you just lap them and send it ?

[@cuttersperformance]

Most of these heads nowadays will need some machine work

[@adolfoelizondo7943]

Self aling rockers can work on this combo? I already have a new set

[@cuttersperformance]

They should as long as there is enough valve tip

[@EricErnst]

What spark plugs do you run on these heads?

[@Candyvyorn_]

What kinda rocker studs did you use

[@nickortega9987]

have you dynoed the motor yet

[@cuttersperformance]

Unfortunately not yet nick, due to these crazy backorders nowadays on everything I actually had to borrow parts of this engine for customers engines. But dont worry it will be back!

[@nickortega9987]

@@cuttersperformance I was just curious I just installed the 8803 I haven't fired it up yet thanks 👍

[@danieldelpha1315]

Did you see the work Eric Weingarten did on those heads?

[@cuttersperformance]

Just did! He was certainly right going to the bigger valve. He did a nice job and is very talented. Its alot of work porting heads and most guys dont appreciate that until they try it

[@nickortega9987]

Have you dynoed this motor yet

[@cuttersperformance]

Not yet! Got abit back logged and had to borrow parts off this buikd for customers engines...but I do have big plans in the works to get this dynoed and do some testing

[@joedrt2960]

gud info👍💯

[@jennyortega7911]

What head gasket did you use

[@cuttersperformance]

GM .028 gaskets (actual thinkess is .032)

[@jennyortega7911]

@@cuttersperformance can I use that gasket on afr vortec 190 heads I have original vortec heads with 95.1 compression now

[@cuttersperformance]

@jenny ortega you should be able to, i believe they are for max bore size of 4.030

[@jennyortega7911]

Do you have a part number for that gasket

[@nickortega9987]

Do you have the part number for the gast

[@isaacbranson7999]

What rocker studs/guides are you using

[@bobbyd7140]

I would also like to know that info

[@inscoredbz]

Should be a good mid range motor.

[@Thumper68]

No umbrella seals?

[@cuttersperformance]

No went flex body vitons

[@ryansanchez461]

What type of intake gaskets did you use?

[@ryansanchez461]

I’m building an engine with those heads but it doesn’t wanna idle so I believe it has a vacuum leak. It’s a 355 with a eagle crank, summit flat top pistons, dna heads, 280 comp cam, same intake, same valve train setup. Sounds really good, great response time, just does not like to idle. It might be my carb but I also want to replace my intake gasket too something that fits a bit better.

[@cuttersperformance]

They are a weird port shape. Cleaned them up to a 1206 gasket

[@ryansanchez461]

@@cuttersperformance Thank you. The gaskets are on order. Should have it together by tomorrow and I’ll let you how it runs.

[@ryansanchez461]

@@cuttersperformance got it to idle right and she sounds mean.

[@Candyvyorn_]

Any updates on the heads?

[@cuttersperformance]

Longevity or HP? HP you can see the video on my channel "KZbin 355" And as far as Longevity the engine is currently in a car with some decent miles on it with no issues so far

[@Candyvyorn_]

Would you run 1.6 ratio or would the lift be too high? What do you think the maximum lift is for this setup? I’m copied everything you got part by part.

[@nickortega9987]

what timing set is on it

[@cuttersperformance]

Summit racing SUM-G6601R-9

[@nickortega9987]

Thank you I appreciate your help I'm hoping to get 450 HP

[@nickortega9987]

thanks for your help.i have a question I have the afr vortec heads and I bought a air gap intake and the port's are smaller in size by qite a bit is that gonna effect me at all

[@johnwehunt4305]

Just get the PAC beehive springs

[@cuttersperformance]

I had these already, they are made by Pac

[@nickortega9987]

no Dyno yet

[@cuttersperformance]

Not yet, got abit back logged on some work/other projects but I got some interesting plans for this one on the dyno

[@nickortega9987]

do you have a part number for the timing set

[@buckwall8410]

I need your beehive spring kit I sent an email

[@cuttersperformance]

Hey Buck! Sent you a email

[@chickenfoundation9323]

I was looking at competition products cmp852226 what do you think about everything in that kit?

[@cuttersperformance]

Not familiar with it and cant find it online?

[@chickenfoundation9323]

If you go on competition products website and look up CMP852226 it should pop up

[@MegaKencam]

I called them and they suggested the CMP852126 kit. It is currently OOS though.

[@jonrice4483]

What do you recommend for guideplates, stud size and pushrod size?