Vans Aircraft Business Update - January 15 2022

[@felixtorres1895]

Your company is a class act. Those of us who are waiting appreciate you keeping us in the loop. This is the reason why so many people have placed their trust not just in the company, but you as individuals.

[@steventhompson4013]

Aged like fine milk

[@Eric.S06]

Great message guys. As someone who is just starting the process to determine if this is something I want to do I appreciate the clear information coming out from leadership.

[@RyanE67]

18 months... It only took you 18 months to 100% reverse course on the laser cut parts. I hope there's something we can do with all of this wasted aluminum.

[@loucarmona2746]

Thank you for the update. I am almost done with my 14 Empennage kit and waiting for QB wings, QB Fuselage and Finishing kit. I finally pulled the trigger after decades of lusting after an RV…. Having a blast, wish I had done this before the Pandemic boost!

[@joshwithe7468]

I had only read about Van's aircraft until starting my new job in March. Since then I've done three annuals on RVs and ended up installing 406 ELTs in two of them. I've been an A&P for almost 30 years, and I was impressed by the design and strength of such simple aircraft. Makes me wish the big name makers had simpler designs, it would make inspections easier and faster.

[@phatvu3811]

I have been building my RV8 for the last four years and I am on the final stretch to get if flying. I can attest that Vans customer support is top notch. All of my questions were answered quickly. Every time I have a question about my kit, builder support is just a phone call away. This is why Vans has such a loyal following and why there are more Vans kit airplanes flying today than all of other kit airplanes combines. Thanks for the update.

[@jamesbarros950]

I'm just getting started in my PPL, but I've already decided that I will own a Vans eventually. You guys are such a standup operation, and I've heard it argued that you've singlehandedly saved GA for working stiffs like me. Thank you.

[@dermick]

Thanks for the video - for those of you building or waiting on parts - I can confirm it's worth the effort and the wait! I really love my RV-8 with IO-360/hartzell/GRT👍

[@debovsky5323]

All my regards to you at Van's. You're doing a fantastic job.

[@JoshSinclair]

No RV-15 post credits teaser?! But I stayed all the way until the end!

[@TheJasonmurphy2005]

Guess I don’t need to watch then

[@wb6140]

Maybe it is time to move the quick build process to move back to North America. The cheap labour offshore advantage is being eaten up by shipping cost and logistical timing issues. By investing in automation the labour component of the kit price will be minimized.

[@Rv7traralgon]

Thanks for the update , I’ve got a 7 QB on order , not really stressed as I’m in the test flying stage of my 12IS I’ve just competed . Miss my 7 that I completed 10 years ago so time to replace it. Glad to hear Vans is growing and sorting the issues in supply .

[@robertweekley5926]

As a Long time Fan, Once Second Builder of an Old RV-3 Kit (Below Serial #250!), This is all Excellent News! As an aside, I, Personally, in 1987, worked part-time for a period with a Freight Forwarding Company, between working for Leavens Aviation (Alas - they are - or Seem to be - "No More") and working at MDCAN (McDonnell Douglas Canada), and was tasked with loading Pallets, from a moving Belt Feed. It Appears that previous staff, serving my "route" did not do as well a Job as I did, in managing the Pallet Stack, and in Bundling the Pallets for a Secure Transit, and one day, the boss called me in, to ask - "What are you doing that is different?" I found out that Truck Drivers Noticed they were not having Pallets split apart on my run, and they came in asking "Who's the New Guy?" Apparently, Stacking Logic of Pallets is not something all workers "Grasp!" Nor was the Process of Securing the Boxes on Pallets! My Technique, seemed to be a "Full Step Above" Previous Workers - at least on the Line or Route I served! So - from that small "Experience" (Maybe about 3-4 Months tops) I can Grasp that not all "Shippers" may have the "Best Handling of Freight" due to various elements, of Staff, and Training, or Education, and Logic, in handling of Shipping. Previous to working at Leaven's Aviation, I worked at "Wardair" - and one day - we had a Plane in the Hangar, that somebody stuck a Forklift Tine into the Baggage Door Frame, causing some big damage, a delayed Departure from another airport, and a quick fix leading to a late arrival into Toronto, Pearson Airport (Ontario, Canada), our Home Base! So, I can see that equipment operators, are not always "at the Top of Their Game" in managing a Forklift, at least, and no doubt, other equipment, as well, that could cause damage even to a Wooden Crate!

[@kentcolgan6139]

Thank you for the update. Keep on keeping on!

[@pilotrhino]

No hurry on my 10 fuse and finish, got the order in knowing the delays you had. Get people their empenege and wing kits so they have something to do fir 2 years. You guys rock. Keep it up. There are going to be more RV than Cessna’s soon.

[@1hornet1]

Great update. Amazing work on expanding production and increasing efficiency! I bugged you just a few days too early about my kit unfortunately but I will be patient!

[@rdoody2067]

Glad to hear some businesses are doing well and expanding. Great group of people dealing with contemporary problems.

[@leannanderson9397]

Thanks for the update. Keep them coming.

[@WVMbe]

Very open en detailed. Nice job!

[@Nacwing]

Well done update guys. I can’t imagine the logistics nightmare it takes to do what you do.

[@CheckSixAviation]

Regarding the crate quality upon arrival at the customer, I would recommend using either glue or L-Brackets to secure the sides on the bottom plywood.

[@pa28IFR]

Great update. Thanks for all that you guys do

[@careersteer6497]

Thanks for the update, gentlemen!! Can't wait to get my 14A.

[@jrm-flva3970]

Hi Rian and Greg. I really appreciate this status presentation format. Please talk about the Garmin Servo Problem in your next update. Best Regards, Joe

[@edgb]

@JRM what Garmin Servo problem ? Care to share more details?

[@jrm-flva3970]

@@edgb Hi. My Dual G3X IFR Kit Order is at Steins. I asked for an update and received the following email from Jessica Volbrecht at VANs: "Garmin has made some changes to their servos. They were meant to be a direct replacement but during testing Steinair has determined some functionality issues this has caused within the system. We are unsure at this time how much of a delay this will cause. We’re hoping we can resolve everything quickly. However, if significant changes are needed in order for the new servos to function correctly this could result in a significant delay. Steinair and Van’s engineering team are work together with Garmin to get everything sorted out. I will advise as soon as I receive an update on resolution. " I can't find anything on the web about this. If you find something, please share.

[@damongulick4306]

Thanks very much for this video. I really appreciate how open you are and very glad to see you are doing so well. I really hope that at some point you will consider working on carbon composite version of some of your aircraft or at least provide composite components as an option. Thanks again

[@bigalsplanesimplegarage4288]

Great up-date on the status of customer orders. Looking forward to the next update..

[@cf6282]

Congratulations on your success! Huge order portfolio for 2021…wow..amazing!

[@outlawraceparts8686]

Pretty interesting listening to these guys and knowing what we know today. I would hope both these individuals are in a soup line right now.

[@edcew8236]

Maybe you could open another factory closer to the midwest/east coast, even if that factory doesn't do the entire kit. Could save on shipping...

[@FlyVansAircraft]

It has, of course, been discussed. However, opening another manufacturing facility would be a very substantial undertaking and would take quite a long time on the calendar so any move like that would be more long-term in nature. Our current plan will substantially address the primary issue we face right now, which is manufacturing capacity. And, as mentioned in the update, we are maturing our internal tools so that in the future we will have better automation for detailed forecasting and planning.

[@AlexDenton0451]

Building one of your Designs is a personal dream of mine. It’s gonna be years until I can afford either a RV4 or RV8, but I can’t wait to get started.

[@MilitaryAIWorks100]

Thank you for the update!

[@dennisnbrown]

Great video Greg. I think this will work. Wish you all the best of luck and hope to someday build one myself.

[@bobpenzien7962]

Will Van's ever consider building the QuickBuilds here locally either in Aurora, OR or elsewhere here in the United States?

[@FlyVansAircraft]

We've looked at it, and of course we consider it periodically. The combined requirements of expertise, space, established business and production processes is extensive and our partners are well-established. In addition, the cost differential would be high. There are companies in the US that will take your standard-build kit and assemble it to QB stage for you, but we do not contract with those companies for our mass assembly needs, as they are not capable of that volume.

[@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity]

Vans Aircraft would not have any problem finding skilled people if they pay a fair wage and provide benefits. That is one reason I built a slow build. Two years working full time. Done. Follow the plans.

[@spurgear4]

We tried to order Aeroshell 6 at work yesterday, lead time is a year and half. It's an interesting world now.

[@peteraringer8791]

Great Customer support to keep them informed about what is going on. I love to build my RV-10 here in Germany. Like me some of the builders have chosen to use Control Approach rudder pedals and can send the not needed stock pedals back to you, if it helps…

[@j.gregory5669]

Still no info on the 15, “announced” last year in Wisconsin. I predict that in 2-3 years you’ll be able to pick up a half-built RV at a significant discount as many of today’s buyers realize the complexity of the project and decide to Trevor Jacob on to something else.

[@petermagoun7457]

Excellent comprehensive explanation of the currrent situation and the methods being taken to expand the enterprise and improve production. Very impressive presentation. Given the cost, complexity, time, and logistical issues associated with off-shore manufacturing/assembly of kit components, is there any way that at least some of those efforts could be done in the states?

[@tpsu129]

Why not utilize a domestic quick builder? No customs when you have someone from Pennsylvania or South Carolina or Texas, etc. do the work.

[@michaelcannon1143]

Labor cost. Far cheaper to ship it back and forth.

[@jtropfenbaum7931]

@@michaelcannon1143 Would be interesting alright to see the actual price difference if Vans could set up an operation and train eager immigrants willing to work at the needed compensation in say Texas or New Mexico or Mississippi etc !

[@gregpdx]

We’ve done the analysis and it’s not possible to do so cost effectively ourselves. Our quick build facilities are partner companies now owned by Van’s. If there was a company in the USA that had the expertise and staff/infrastructure to do the work we would of course at least consider that. And it should be noted that there are some smaller companies in the USA that will build a standard build kit to QB state for you if you pay them to do so.

[@oiphebal]

@@gregpdx did you buy Flyer?

[@garyvanremortel5218]

Glad I finished my 6A in '98 and bought my Lycoming just before management people had to build engines due to a strike. Runs like a top.

[@Flying2ZC]

You will see it through- you are taking the longer view- many do not. Great aeroplanes. Can you pop an RV10 in the post please.

[@cumulusgrandus1996]

I'll bet in a couple of years there will be plenty of partially built kits available from those that were so enthusiastic to start in 2021.

[@robertweekley5926]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGGsi4emo6eCrpo Some things to watch for in correct Rivets used by Previous Builders, as well as correct rivet sets on them!

[@kevinrenville4030]

I wouldn't buy a kit built by somebody else. No way to validate what it was done correctly or not except by going back through the whole airplane.

[@PecanLane]

Thanks. I hope you are planning and executing for 10x further growth.

[@gregpdx]

Insightful comment. We are planning and hearing up for further growth, yes.

[@381delirius]

my high school class is building the rv-12rn

[@MrJohnBatty]

It’s clear to me that VAN’s is experiencing classic mfg company growth pains. Discussions about spreadsheets, etc begs the question whether or not a significant upgrade in operations staff, tools, and ERP logistics software is warranted. I have been considering a RV10 but have bee dismayed by the last year. So many changes in chaos contributes to quality variation.

[@gmcjetpilot]

Heard of world wide supply chain issues? This is not a Van's only thing.

[@FlyVansAircraft]

As described in the video, we are making substantial upgrades and changes in ops, staffing, ERP, and other tools at this time. We have a significant bulge in demand and are working on supply volume right now, a problem which we will work through. Parts quality is critical to us, and one of the reasons we're careful and deliberate in executing change. That said, we only want you to order when you're ready and we will be here for you when you do.

[@FlyVansAircraft]

@@navinrjohnson5047 And I'll get blasted for this :) but challenge accepted. We've been through difficult periods a few times over the last 50 years, and we will get through this as well.

[@LTVoyager]

@@navinrjohnson5047 I won’t “blast” you, but I will disagree. I retired a few years ago from a Fortune 500 company where I had leadership roles in R, D & E in both manufacturing systems and product development. High demand is not a prelude to bankruptcy, just the opposite. And supply chain issues that are global and broad are not a prelude to bankruptcy either. Now, if you have self-inflicted supply chain issues, that is different, but I don’t see that here. The biggest preludes to bankruptcy are not listening to your customers and making what they want to buy (clearly not a problem at Vans at present) or chasing a bubble and expanding manufacturing too fast and overshooting the mark dramatically. I lived through that at my employer during the photonics boom of 2000 - 2002 and we saw sales go from $1 billion to $100 million in less than a year when we had geared up manufacturing for $1 billion+. That is where Vans needs to be cautious and expand judiciously and carefully and in ways that can be scaled back at the next dip in demand. I suspect much of their orders and those for other durable goods are due to all of the government stimulus money that is also now driving inflation. When this comes home to roost economically, I predict a significant recession as inflation devalues income and I would not be surprised to see a significant wave of order cancellations at the end of 2022 and into 2023. This will be a huge issue for companies that chase this stimulus driven bubble and gear up to make volumes that may well not be needed in 1-3 years.

[@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity]

Build a slow build. I did mine while working full time in two years. Stick to the plans.

[@HamishBrown3]

Really excited to hear any news of the RV-15. Im holding off purchasing a 4 place high wing kit until i see what VANS does.

[@robertweekley5926]

Last I remember - per information revealed at Oshkosh '21, they said a further update, would be delivered at, or by, Oshkosh '22! So, the only thing I can suggest, is "Patience, Grasshopper!" :-) I know, if you are "Chomping at the Bit" to get more information, it is going to be an "Agonizing Wait!" I figure, just like Dermick said, above, it will still be "Worth the Wait!"

[@alexc30]

The laser-cutting part didn't age well ...

[@jonasbaine3538]

Nope. Now they will have consultants crawling through everything. Puzzling how they sold kits below cost. Don't understand how no one can notice that.

[@47colton]

After you factor in the problems with shipping and the costs involved...you tell this cannot be done in this country?

[@davidfarrish3768]

Great update. Is there any way you could build the quick build kits in North America for a comparable price to offshore costa?

[@edgb]

Would be good to have some kind of training / recommendations on how to work with laser cut parts instead of punched parts. How to finish parts, different debur techniques? Is it the same process of pressed parts?

[@TurboDirectSA]

Good comment, possibility of hardness change during laser cutting might be a challenge to work with.

[@FlyVansAircraft]

We've done physical analysis and stress/fatigue testing on the parts as one of the key evaluation steps. Prep for assembly is not different than with pre-punched parts.

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@FlyVansAircraft Is there any hardening of the material that has been subjected to the heat involved in the laser cutting?

[@rianjohnson7484]

@@TurboDirectSA There will be hardening of the surface with any laser. If you choose the correct machine (quality machine) with the correct wattage and cut speed as I mentioned in the video this is very small. The fear of using a laser comes from the days of CO2 lasers which had a large heat-affected zone. Fiber lasers have a much smaller zone. Not all fiber lasers are created equal though and we have taken that into account when selecting a vendor to make these parts. We completed fatigue testing accounting for these varibles. The parts have an equivalent fatigue life to our punched parts.

[@rianjohnson7484]

I agree with your training comment here. We could do a targeted video on this. The laser-cut edge is better than a punched edge from a deburring standpoint. There is a small exit burr like the punched parts but this is similar in size to the punched parts. The holes without any deburring will have an equivalent fatigue life of punched holes. We covered these variables in our fatigue testing.

[@saulw.adelman4865]

Why aren’t you producing quick builds in the US, locally?

[@FlyVansAircraft]

There are a few smaller companies in the US that will do the quick build work if hired by an individual customer, so that option is available should you wish to go that route. But, those companies are not able to support the volume of work managed by the overseas partners, and the cost from a company that would be able to do that volume would likely be quite a lot higher that it is now. If a company in the USA comes to be that can do the work in a high-quality, competitive way - we will certainly entertain the idea. It just hasn't happened. For now, we are focused on maintaining and increasing capacity at our current partner companies.

[@LTVoyager]

Cost.

[@guyfly47]

@@FlyVansAircraft You can’t find US companies that are “competitive” ? So what you mean is, you’re not willing to pay up for US companies that pay US workers living wages. Thanks anyway for keeping your Philippine and Brazilian partners in business. I wonder how the wages they pay their workers compare to those paid at US companies? Did you ask? Do you care?

[@billbrisson]

it sounds like this is a good problem to have from a company stand point, they can't build them fast enough to meet the demands of their costumers... I guess if you have to have problems, there are far worse ones to have!

[@riverrat7411]

Thank you for the updates. Please get those RV10 wings out, if I spend any more time inside the house my wife is gonna kill me!

[@riverrat7411]

BTW, Im guessing you guys are really reading these messages so Ill take a second to say thank you. Even though the company is challenged in several ways and Im sure many are stressed, a huge thanks to Matthew in kits for always being pleasant, responsive and honest. Ive had the chance to speak with LOTS of good people there (including you Greg and you were more than punctual and as kind as anyone). Matthew somewhat elevated himself by really caring and responding to calls/emails. He is great asset and I hope you guys see this so he can be acknowledged.

[@rianjohnson7484]

RV-10 Wing parts were the first run at one of our laser cutters. We will be shipping a group of these in February. If yours does not ship then it will move you up significantly in line.

[@gregpdx]

@@riverrat7411 Thanks for the kind words about your experience with Matthew - he does a terrific job and I’ll be sure to pass along your comment to him!

[@riverrat7411]

@@rianjohnson7484 Heck yea! Thats great news. My actual date was 12/27. Well, now I can speed up my empennage and get finished up.

[@falcon127]

SO Vans Aircraft QUICK BUILD IS BACK IN THE PHILIPPINES AND A (NEW) FACILITY IN BRAZIL???

[@EJWash57]

It would help to have a play-by-play explanation/understanding of the order/out-for-delivery process. The term "crating" is in-house for you, but I have no idea what it means. Does it mean that Van's has all the components for my order, and they're being put into a crate for shipping? Or, does it mean my order has been assigned a physical crate, and the components are being put into it as parts become available? Online, I see that my RV-14 empennage kit (ordered 18May21) went to crating status 17Jan-28Jan. No email of status, happened to stumble across your Kit Status link. An explanation of the "crating" process would help.

[@FlyVansAircraft]

We're working on new terminology specifically because it's not a great term for explaining status to customers. "Assigned to Crating" means it's on the crating team's future work list (so it's coming up). We contact you when the date is close to communicate and arrange shipping information. We are working to improve this terminology and information over time.

[@JoshSinclair]

@@FlyVansAircraft It would be cool to see a video of the lifecycle of an order, from when it gets placed, to when it gets shipped out.

[@EJWash57]

@@FlyVansAircraft Thanks for the reply. +1 to what Josh Sinclair is suggesting.

[@dieselyeti]

What are the chances that Van's ever offers a 6-place aircraft kit? The Cherokee 6 fleet is getting old.

[@FlyVansAircraft]

It's been discussed quite a few times in public - At least right now there's not a market that makes sense for us to do that. It's not that we never will. We will of course continue to review, but the number of kits we've projected we would sell through our analysis just doesn't pencil out at this point. A 6-place aircraft is a significantly different beast from a design and cost perspective.

[@jonasbaine3538]

@@FlyVansAircraft I would also love to see a 6 seater. I think the a36 bonanza market is proof that the demand is there. Simply stretch the rv-10 like Piper did with cherokee and Beechcraft did with bonanza. Whatever the design, a high performance 6 seat fixed gear single is in high demand.

[@dieselyeti]

@@jonasbaine3538 The 6-seat piston single market is not nearly as healthy as you think. In 2018 Beech shipped 15 G36 Bonanzas, 7 in 2019 and 12 in 2020. Piper's M350 shipped 20, 21 and 15 those same years. The Cessna 206 is the only 6-seat FG single I can think of, and Cessna shipped 32, 37 and 26. By contrast Cirrus shipped 315 SR22s (incl turbos) in 2018, 331 in 2019 and 291 in 2020. (GAMA data) 6-seat piston singles aircraft are just not in demand, regardless of RG or FG.

[@jonasbaine3538]

@@dieselyeti The aircraft you mention are all certified. Many people would prefer building new experimental vs buying used certified 6 seater. New aircraft sales do not portray the complete picture of general aviation demand.

[@rodneycichon5993]

Rodney Cichon; is there at any time your company can come up with a yoke instead of a stick control in the low wing aircraft

[@FlyVansAircraft]

We have no plans for yoke controls.

[@edgb]

Are you guys possibly making "standard kit" lead time worse by trying to improve "quick build" delivery time? My Wing kit is way behind schedule and no visibility given on possible delivery date.

[@FlyVansAircraft]

We have to fill the QB manufacturing pipeline in order to keep the people that work at those companies working, of course. Otherwise, those people are lost and the ability to produce QB kits going forward would be negatively impacted. We are making parts for all kits and the lead times are a function of orders vs. manufacturing throughput, which is why we are substantially increasing the manufacturing capacity through partners.

[@jeremyskeen9679]

So this answer is basically a yes. All parts sent overseas to remake corroded QB wings, so not enough inventory left to ship out SB wings

[@KitfoxPilot]

The problems you have seem to be the world we live in. Thanks for explaining.

[@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity]

So, why are you not building QB kits in the USA??? I can’t believe we don’t have enough skilled people in the USA and I would think the extra labor costs here would be less than waiting months extra for shipping processed materials thousands of miles to be assembled and shipped back.

[@surebrah]

Should try QB assembly in the USA. Cut down on these problems.

[@MrCubflyer]

build them in the US you wont have that shipping issue.

[@markwelch3338]

Providing information that rudder peddles etc. may be on back order could be helpful to builders that are considering after market ones. I have deleted them from my RV-10 QB and have controlled approach ones already in hand. A list of items that may be on back order for kits would be helpful.

[@FlyVansAircraft]

Hi Mark - thanks for that and it's a good thought. If a builder deletes certain parts from the bill of materials for their kit order, we will only show an "backorder" status for planning purposes on those parts which are included in that specific order. The list changes constantly, so any inventory list would quickly be an outdated point-in-time snapshot.

[@YouTubeCatEngineer]

This is probably far far beyond any immediate plans at Van's Aircraft, but what do you think about a very fast dedicated commuter aircraft like Questair Venture? I approached you at Oshkosh probably 4-5 years ago wanting to talk about a very fast aircraft and it's still a dream of mine. I am aerospace engineer (Cessna/Boeing) currently flying a Pitts. My Dad has an RV-8 and loves it.

[@JoshSinclair]

Check out the DarkAero 1.

[@markbrazil6419]

Not a word of quick building kits here

[@FlyVansAircraft]

We regularly analyze options for quickbuild location options as explained elsewhere, if a company was available that was already set up to do the work, at the level of quality necessary, that could be cost effective we would be open to discussion. Meanwhile if anyone wants their quickbuild assembly done in the USA we can ship your standard kit to one of several companies in the USA that will complete it to quickbuild stage for you. Some builders choose to make those arrangements with companies who do that type of work in the US, but those companies are not geared up to do anywhere near the volume of work our existing QB assembly partner companies process.

[@guyfly47]

@@FlyVansAircraftYou said, “cost effective”. There you go again. What you mean is “low wage”.

[@DougGoodrich]

4000 kits sold in 2021. Is a kit a complete aircraft or a sub-kit of a complete aircraft? Looks like the RV-10 and RV-14 both are made up of four sub-kits.

[@HeeHawHighlander]

What, no RV-15 news?😢

[@zackriden79]

if you ask me sounds like Van's needs come compeition in the market place ,. IF i had money i would open a company in texus and partner up with some building in mexico ,. compeition is only going to be better for the kit builder they are really going to be able to do whatever they want and the consomer isn't going to stop it

[@kellybaker1670]

Is there not anyone in the US that can build these kits?

[@FlyVansAircraft]

The kit parts are made in the USA. Assembly of the optional QuickBuild kits takes place overseas. There are a few smaller companies in the US that will do the quick build work if hired by an individual customer, but those companies are not able to support the volume of work managed by the overseas partners, and the cost from a company that would be able to do that volume would likely be quite a lot higher. If a company in the USA comes to be that can do the work in a high-quality, competitive way - we will certainly entertain the idea. It just hasn't happened. For now, we are focused on maintaining and increasing capacity at our current partner companies.

[@guyfly47]

@@FlyVansAircraft See my comment above above about being “competitive” means “pays a low wage”.

[@davidwoodward6112]

Figure out who you need to "incentivize" and those shipments will flow smoothly:) We were in Brazil during the Olympics and it was a mess getting stuff in and out.

[@rianjohnson7484]

We will be changing ports where we have more control. Next time will be faster. Even then there is overlap between shipments to take care of that somewhat. THis was the first shipment so there was no option but to add a delay. Hopefull some of our other padding takes up that delay.

[@CraigBoshard]

As a matter of interest, any reason you haven't considered a Quick Build facility in South Africa? We have a reasonably cheap, skilled workforce and all speak "American" 😉 Also have a BIG Vans RV following here in South Africa. It sounds like Vans desperately needs more of these facilities.

[@careersteer6497]

Government risk. Plain and simple.

[@Custercounty01]

Craig, thats pretty funny... Im an ex ZA citizen. Our employees in ZA cost more per month now than they do in Germany. The days of low labor cost in ZA are over and then one has to deal with the labor disputes, theft, security, corrupt govt officials / customs + the massive shipping distance + cost of WIP. The fact is that it is cheaper to re-source the production to Poland, Check republic or several other EU countries than to ZA. And those are for small high value items, NOT large airplane parts (quick builds mainly wings and fuselage).

[@CraigBoshard]

We building world class export 50ft and 55ft catamarans here, so are Robertson and Caine, and a host of others. The Airplane Factory seem to be doing just fine with the Slings, and I assure you there are many others serving the needs of the international community. Manufacturing and the workforce has its challanges no matter where you are in the world. Anyway, hope Vans manage to get additonal facilities online asap.

[@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity]

You would think a US company could expand their QB operations in the USA. Oh, but they might have to pay $25/hr, plus benefits for skilled people.

[@tpsu129]

What about making smaller kits? Instead of an empennage kits, why not an empennage A, empennage B, empennage C kits?

[@Spinner1987CH]

well sounds interesting but the empennage (at least for the 8 I‘ve built) goes together quite fast.. and shipping partial kits for wing and fuse does not really seem practical.. maybe a wing package and a control surface package..

[@rianjohnson7484]

With the price of shipping, this is not feasible. We have seen some rates domestically on these packages increase by a factor of 5. With that said as I mentioned it is possible that the core of the kit still can be shipped to you. We will consider this when deciding which kits we can ship out.

[@tpsu129]

@@Spinner1987CH smaller kits would lower the barriers for those either low on funds and/or space in their garage. On Van's side of the equation, they could sell more kits without having to take up the necessary room in their warehouse.

[@tpsu129]

@@rianjohnson7484 so if I just wanted to, for example, work on the vertical stabilizer, then I can just order that piece instead of the entire empennage kit?

[@rianjohnson7484]

@@tpsu129 The idea here as I mentioned in the video there are parts we control and those we do not. As long as we can obtain material we can produce the basic structure of a kit or what I called the core of the kit. If the other parts (a tail stinger and socket for a tail-dragger 14 for example) are unavailable we will ship those in the future. With our increased production we will have the sheet metal parts. Somewhere in in these comments someone mentioned having parts available for over the counter sales if someone needs a repair. We can’t guarantee we will have replacements available but we do look at the number of sales for the previous year for each part when we make a batch of a certain kit. Builders usually start the left side of the aircraft first so there are usually more extra replacement parts made for the left side.

[@MrSupro]

I am in the electronics manufacturing business here in the US and these are all the same sort of things we are dealing with. I am not sure if this is more a consequence of people being unavailable due to sickness and lockdown causing supply issues, or the let’s call it economic policy re arrangement of the game board of the economy. I’m trying to keep that statement family friendly. 🤣 good luck.

[@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity]

US corporations have no problem purchasing $2-30M tax deductible aircraft to take their families on beach vacations. All while burning 100-600 gph of Jet A! Yet, they’ll complain about their labor and benefits costs are too high.

[@richardsmith4187]

As we have seen before in many industries, unfortunately when you outsource things to be built in other countries the quality drops. The problem with Van's is the CNC machines and the tolerances caused a major problem of which you don't want to have when you are flying. I truly hope someone will step up and infuse some serious cash into Van's as it would be a real shame to lose the company and those great aircraft. ** how about increasing manpower here in the states ?? **

[@jp0924]

im in logistics i reach out to see if you need help we move weekly from taiwan to usa and other origin location.

[@flytoday]

the whole JIT business model is now broken, time to shorten those supply chains and bring production back to the north American continent

[@edcew8236]

It's amazing how the strictly aviation portion of the business is shrinking in comparison with the details of running the business...

[@UncleKennysPlace]

What you _don't_ see is much larger than what you _do_ see in most businesses. My admin work can hit 1:1 with productive work.

[@Chuckyeager1942]

How about an updated RV-8 with a longer fuselage? Bigger engine and more baggage. The canopy needs to be better. A cracked canopy is no fun. Especially if there is no discernible reason to the crack. SUPER 8

[@rigilchrist]

Bravo.

[@Beecher_Dikov]

Love to have a 14...

[@falcon127]

THE TESLA OF KIT AIRPLANES.

[@squeakersc063]

Oof

[@cico3946]

What's wrong with "MADE IN AMERICA' ?

[@holdenrestoration2557]

15?....

[@FlyVansAircraft]

Yes?... It's coming. When it's ready. We're pretty busy here!

[@ForTheLoveOfRightRudder]

Why aren’t you doing quick builds in the USA? $23,000 for shipping then another $3600 for trucking? Seems like a no brainer

[@SuperSetright]

Divided by 100 kits per container; Still cheaper to ship.

[@guyfly47]

@@SuperSetright Still not “Made in the US”.

[@hogster5935]

Now try and create a cheaper craft for the avg pilots that can own. I know very challenging.....

[@markwarren625]

Make all of it in the UNITED STATES of America. Put our young people to work.

[@FlyVansAircraft]

As stated in other comments, our kits and parts are all made in the USA in Oregon. Assembly work on the QB kits is done overseas and we leverage partner companies for that work. Quick Build kits are an option, so anyone who wants 100% US kits can of course order them in the standard build kit configuration.

[@guyfly47]

@@FlyVansAircraft What part of “all of it” don’t you understand?

[@brianmorrow4729]

Difficult job they are doing, and I'm sure they are working hard to be good to customers like myself. By the way, am I the only guy who thinks Rian looks like Leonard Nimoy..? If you can't trust Spock, who can you trust...? It's only logical......

[@joemahan311]

So uh… RV15???? Still at 7 minutes into the video :)

[@FlyVansAircraft]

That'll be a (some as of yet unscheduled time in the) future video.

[@joemahan311]

@@FlyVansAircraft I should have known “X” and unscheduled X date would have been answered X scheduled way! If it’s anything like the Vashon Ranger or a better version of the 180 etc… oh baby. That being said your team has enough on their plate! Would love to come help with production but could only do it part time.

[@TurboDirectSA]

Hopefully those ETA's can lower from 12 months (which is honestly un-realistic to expect a customer to wait) to something that is realistic.

[@Spinner1987CH]

well try a kitfox or rans then.....

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@Spinner1987CH Irrelevant comment and totally unrelated to the abnormal and honestly unrealistic expectation by Vans to expect customers to wait 1 year for basic parts (not a quick build kit) Vans should manage their business proactively.

[@MilitaryAIWorks100]

@@TurboDirectSA We just waited 11 months for a couch….. A COUCH…. Vans is doing the best they can and honestly they’re managing to keep that small family owned business feel to what is otherwise an unprecedented expansion of the business.

[@TurboDirectSA]

@@MilitaryAIWorks100 I hear you, and I mean no disrespect, but really, if you have orders increased more than 4 times the normal rate over a relatively long period (a year plus) , do something about it. Once more, im talking about producing parts, not quick builds. Punching plate does not take long. Especially when automated. Noone knows the business better than Vans does, and inside of more than a years worth of time and orders, with ever increasing demand, consistently and exponentially increasing - well, do something about it and quickly, keep the clients happy to some balanced level of realistic expectation in lead time. Some of us have planes that need a simple part which might be urgent, now expecting that client to wait a year for a skin or basic part is seriously demotivating. Some clients run a training school and need the part urgently to repair a plane which they rely on for income..... 12 months without generating income -- sorry this is very long to wait for parts no matter how you look at it.

[@Spinner1987CH]

@@TurboDirectSA well there are many things which played together.. The fires, covid, the QB story and the shipping and on top of all the immense increase in orders.. Of course they had to increase production of parts but this was maybe eaten by the additional parts they had to do for the corroded QB kits which had to be replaced… I mean which customer has priority? the one which ordered or the one who received damaged parts ? And I am also in a manufacturing business and last year was just not normal.. We could not buy materials or machines even if we would have paid 10x the normal price. Lead times and shipping prices skyrocketed and are still completely unreliable. So I can understand Vans that they have issues. The only thing I do not understand is if they did not reply (but as I am not affected I do not know first hand).. And one year of lead time is in my opinion absolutely reasonable for these days. Even some car brands have meanwhile such lead times.. And I can barely think of a small replacement part which is so urgent that a training facility can’t make themselves (except a canopy or wingspar) Even the steel parts can be duplicated out of 4130 if necessary..

[@venutoa]

Do not remove surcharge. Companies need to start charging for this inflation. Or it will never go away. Besides that. Everyone who owns a airplane is making 10 of thousands on each plane. Stop being nice and pass along all surcharges!!!!! Billions of dollars are flooding aviation industry. You need to make money while you still can!!!

[@mopar92]

Who cars about all of this BS. Let’s see that high wing!