Vaush Explains His Issue With Rising To Krystal's Face

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[@Valkron]

We can at least all agree that Destiny got destroyed in this debate

[@coupdq9race16]

TRUUUUUUUUU

[@cezarcatalin1406]

Destiny gets destroyed in every debate... even when he isn’t present, even when he’s alone !

[@gaulindidier5995]

Not really.

[@DosAleph]

@Li Stathis bernie bros bootlick crime bills

[@overtherenowaitthere]

@@cezarcatalin1406 the copium...its just too addicting.

[@HalinazDziecmi]

"I don't know how much being ant-establishment means if you're willing to drop all of it over an culture war issue" damn

[@TheBiggestSqueeze]

Republicans think they are anti establishment yet vote for a party that is very much establishment to the core.

[@paulweeldreyer7457]

In this case, the Establishment is pushing the anti-science narrative that biological sex isn't real. It ceases to be (only) a culture war issue when government starts writing laws that ignore the rights and interests of females.

[@SwiftySanders]

Damn! Vaush made that point.

[@Peter-qz3sn]

@@paulweeldreyer7457 yes the scientific consensus that sex and gender are different corelative concepts, the scientific consensus that agrees with the validity of trans identity, that science is anti-scientific, so anti scenrtific is science that doesn't kowtow to my dogmatic believes that invalidates trans identity.

[@vincentvalenhyde]

I know so many Americans are struggling to make ends meet even before this pandemic hit, but, but DR. SEUSS!! GINA CARANO!!! WAR ON CHRISTMAS!!!! MUH RIGHTS DANGNABIT!!!!! REEeeEeEeEEEE!!!!!!

[@ImperfectV01D]

I think the core disagreement between Krystal and Vaush is that, while Krystal tries to highlight the common ground between Left and Right populists, Vaush is skeptical that such common ground exists. He believes that (1) it's misleading to highlight agreement on _problems_ since only _solutions_ are actionable, and (2) while Right populists may _seem_ to agree with us on some economic issues, that agreement either (a) doesn't extend to solutions or (b) is contingent on us abandoning our positions on culture war social issues, something Vaush views as a trap (the Nazbol Vortex). To that point, Vaush sees what Krystal is doing as pushing us toward that trap.

[@thezfunk]

I think you make a great point. I have conservative friends and we agree on, like you said, all the problems. Well, mostly. They usually are outraged about some culture war issue that is so insignificant. Like the Republicans in Florida just passing the bill banning trans athletes or whatever. How many trans people are there in total and how many are competitive athletes? But that is a must pass legislation to them!? If we don't do something it will be a slippy slope where every male athlete will undergo a sex change to dominate in women's sports! Our infrastructure is crumbling all around us and any day you and I can get diagnosed with a health issue that bankrupts us but HOLY SHIT THE TRANS PEOPLE WILL RUIN SPORTS!

[@SaveTheHero210]

The Nazbol vortex isn't real. What happens more often is leftist keep supporting Democtrats with no reward rather than drifting so far left that they end up on the right.

[@fellinuxvi3541]

@@SaveTheHero210 This is an awful take. What happens more often is irrelevant in the face of much worse problems. To abandon these positions is to abandon principle and embrace regressive and authoritarian ways. If that's your view on the left, most people will be out, it will be much worse than catering to the Dems.

[@serialthrilliayahoo]

@@fellinuxvi3541 isnt that what we are asking of conservatives tho? This ultimately cuts both ways. We arent going to stop being fascist overnight even if we start killing each other over it. Its just the nice inclusive fascists lite vs. traditional racist fascists. There will never be a perfect solution, so I'm going to raise my kids right and make sure the have at least a fucking planet to live on thx.

[@fellinuxvi3541]

@@serialthrilliayahoo We are not fascist right now though, that's the point of being critical of rising fascism. I agree that you take the least bad option, but to me, that's liberals and Dems, not the populist right.

[@daysliveon]

How does Kyle still look like a boy that's dressed like a grown man for Halloween.

[@joegillian314]

I don't think the suit suits him very well, lol. But maybe I'm full of shit, and everyone else thinks it makes him look sexy...

[@KD-cj3ji]

@@joegillian314 no... You're absolutely correct

[@ronthorn3]

Looking young is definitely a great thing.

[@ja6975]

3 years late to this, but have you seen him now?! That’s Peter Pan syndrome, make my child trans as a toddler dope

[@loboru4641]

At a glance I read this as "Vaush Explains His Issue With Krystal's Face"

[@Kryojenix]

I've got to say I'm truly amazed at how wide Krystal's mouth opens when enunciating almost any vowels. That's my issue with Krystal's face. And I'm not saying it's a problem or objectionable in any way whatsoever. It's just a thing...

[@oblivionpro69]

Krystal’s face is perfection

[@colorbugoriginals4457]

Krystal's face helps soften the blow of the ugliness she has to report on. 💕

[@BatsAndBadgers]

Read it 10 times trying to figure out the sentence 🤣

[@colorbugoriginals4457]

@@Kryojenix that's actually a really great trait for a presenter, very clear annunciation and the correlating facial expressions are especially helpful addressing crowds, and for viewers with hearing or vision needs. Really clean, crisp, and professional.

[@hellfish2309]

Kyle and Krystal: “Hello, Newman...”

[@sanguinesurfer]

😂🤣😂😂😂🤣😂🤣!!!!!

[@IAmTheBugInsideYou]

Vaush being Newman huh? Lol

[@RoyGBiv-lc8tv]

As a fan of Vaush, I still think this is accurate and hilarious.

[@JB-bc2ry]

@@umang95 Lol, Seinfeld isn't that old yet

[@skerdoo523]

This is fucking gold.

[@_.Dave._]

Kyle, what's it like having to put pants on to do a show?

[@uberXserial]

😂

[@rockduded8925]

Come on, we all know he has no legs.

[@obailemi]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@elmerbeltshire7599]

Holy hell he has legs?!?!?!

[@dimthecat9418]

I don’t get it

[@crosskunx]

Kyle staring off into the distance thinking "this is why I have a solo show"

[@elmerbeltshire7599]

We'll he does call himself an introvert after all

[@user-Dumbunny]

As someone who watched Rising before subscribing to Vaush, I have to say that the Rising clips that Vaush watched were all among the 20% worst takes on Rising, because of course this is what chat would want him to discuss. In other words, Vaush's perception of Krystal and Saagar was strongly affected by selection bias.

[@antonioscendrategattico2302]

Absolutely true. Then again one might say that even if it's a small part of what they do, it's still concerning - just like it is when someone is a great guy but occasionally says some really bigoted shit.

[@PatrickOMulligan]

And they were not even bad. Vaush cannot listen to what is being said.

[@brandoncukrow4033]

That is true that there is some selection bias but that is generally what happens on the show to a lesser extent.

[@Cancellator5000]

@@PatrickOMulligan I think the worst thing was them downplaying Trump's tactic of spreading misinformation and conspiracies about the election results to try and incite a coup attempt to overthrow the election, which actually ended up happening. In retrospective it was wrong to believe that it would be successful, but there were tons of red flags and they covered it like it was just liberal hysteria. It certainly did seem like it was possible they could have stolen the election if there were just a dozen or so more conservative hacks in positions of power going along with whatever Trump wanted.

[@PatrickOMulligan]

@@Cancellator5000 coup lol. Did you watch all their coverage on it? Cause I did. As a liberal I think it was liberal hysteria. They did not downplay it, they accurately reported on it.

[@MayDayMei98]

Man, Vaush really thrashed Destiny in this debate.

[@Lackari]

Based name camarade.

[@SurgingSpirit]

Destiny is also a disgraced sc2 player for hitting on young girls from his streams. The fact he popped up in politics is nauseating to me.

[@alphaenemyplus8376]

so easy to do these days

[@sterd1149]

@Don Shepard Look mate, I have issues with Destiny too but that's not all of his political opinions. Or have you forgotten the thrashings he gave to people like Eric Stryker and other fascies/conservatives a few years back? He's not some strawman, he actually does know his shit.

[@Czarina888777]

Which debate? I see one on here from a few months ago.

[@Powerful_TDFAM]

I know Krystal will most likely never see this, but it was so important to see someone not immediately give up the moment a conversation got tough. Because that discussion happened not just on their show, it happened on their JRE episode. It added so much value to their show that they did not agree on everything. It was a gut-check to the intellectual honesty of what they present themselves to be. And as a viewer, knowing they're not going to lie to me about what they think for ratings, I can believe what these people present. It was an immeasurably important moment to have that disagreement.

[@dimthecat9418]

I see Vaush dressed up of this interview by putting on a unbutton shirt over his regular t-shirt

[@brendenpeterson5684]

That's basically how he always dresses

[@Necroskull388]

There are a number of reasons I respect Vaush, and not a single one of them is “his dress sense”. He’s, like, in the bottom 30% of men’s fashion. Bottom 60% on a good day.

[@666marquis]

Vaush is a dumb person's idea of a smart person. It's the radio announcer voice that puts his act over.....

[@dimthecat9418]

@@666marquis wow you’re pretentious

[@JmanGeezy]

Watching this conversation makes me realize I never want to watch cable news again. Independent media is where it’s at baby! Keep up the good work guys

[@angusmarch1066]

These are the guys MSM is afraid of. Thats why they suppress them. Stats show that the majority of media consumption comes from outside mainstream media, because one way or another leftists and right wingers have both come to the conclusion that MSM is a shield of the government.

[@jkrt8722]

Most independent media is cancer though, far worse than MSM.

[@giantsr1eva]

@@jkrt8722 The independent media also promotes democrats and republicans so it’s no different than cable news. An example of this would be when Joe Rogan said that young people don’t need to be vaccinated, both the cable and independent media joined together in condemning Joe Rogan.

[@JmanGeezy]

@Arthur Klages troll much

[@JmanGeezy]

@@giantsr1eva the major difference is lack of backing/ influence by big pharma and the military industrial complex, seen on full display in ALL MSM

[@voxextremos22]

We can all agree that this was a very civil dialogue

[@noahbirdrevolution]

Ikr... How dare they? Disgusting.

[@whatmeworry8472]

Civility is not a an important goal

[@mrlarvux]

Then on stream he talks about how Krystal is a fascist enabler

[@Preacher_.]

You should see the kinda smear job this dude's tried to lay on Krystal on his own channel...

[@55crusherman55]

Wow, three people who agree get along in a conversation 🤡🤡

[@aka_ozymandias]

The Left needs more of this kind of debate and discourse among people who largely agree on everything

[@Scootercorn]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@CainEverest]

Yeah pretty much. As a leftist, the Democrats are basically undercover Republicans at this point

[@Cheesewiz247]

The left is kind of famous for disagreeing with each other though.

[@KyleS.1987]

Anybody who is as nice to Andy Ngo as Krystal was when he was on Rising is not on the 'left,' IMO.

[@keithremedy]

@@KyleS.1987 you’re not to bright are you

[@Red-ss5lv]

Omg that stuff Vaush talked at the end, Hits hard. Thats so true, even with people I know in my personal life. I literally experience that recently. I wish Psychologists can explain this mental dichotomy these right wing populists have. Its so bizzare.

[@petre1758]

Disgust response and fear of change. That's it basically.

[@jaimeogas]

I haven't seen Vaush before, but he looks like the real life version of the Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons.

[@heavysystemsinc.]

Vaush is based. And Comic Book Guy has a neckbeard and 5 o'clock shadow. Vaush's beard is a legit beard. In fact, if he shaved his beard off, there'd be another beard under there. Comic Book Guy's beard barely hides how much his neck jiggles when he turns his head too fast. I'm saying, "I get the impulse, but let's look a little closer before coming to a conclusion."

[@cptsketch13]

@@heavysystemsinc. could you blow the guy a little harder?

[@orangenostril]

@@cptsketch13 if only I could

[@jessew7565]

@@cptsketch13 all of us Vaush fans want to blow him

[@BrandoHuey23]

He sounds like comic book guy too

[@flaminggorilla909]

The fewest words said by Kyle in a productive video.

[@bernardosax]

the title does say it's krystal responding, so...

[@flaminggorilla909]

@@bernardosax I didn't mean it as a slight I thought it was funny to point out.

[@LinkRocks]

Kyle's a cool dude.

[@rubbercable]

Unfair. But funny.

[@Eralen00]

I actually respect him for keeping his mouth shut for most of it, he knows its not all about him

[@chriswatchingponies9877]

The guy is spot on at the end. About rightwing populists. They behave absolutely the same here in Europe.

[@h.l.malazan5782]

Krystal Ball gave the smallest support recognizing the full context of the storming of the capitol on January 8, and the insecure Justice Dem supporters constantly feel obligated to push back on it. "But storming the capitol is wrong, right? Right? Right?" How many times does she have to condemn the riot before the snowflakes will back off?

[@poltronafrau]

@@seculartalk2992 lmao

[@narrowstone5363]

@Jerry Sissom what'd they say?

[@AlanGarciaC.1093]

Wait... what did the Channel's account said? 👀

[@moejohnson2132]

As a right wing populist, it's cool, we don't like you either.

[@spiritunbound9414]

In the last 2 to 3 minutes Vaush perfectly explains the problem when debating some of those on the right who claim to be populist. Well done.

[@dontyoufuckinguwume8201]

@@aman-qj5sx except that their vote results in ruined lives

[@dillonkeller4477]

What's funny is he doesn't realize it applies to the left just as well.

[@dillonkeller4477]

@@dontyoufuckinguwume8201 A vote for Democrats is no better.

[@gerg5555]

@@dontyoufuckinguwume8201 Compared to the green party, democrats ruin lives. Representative democracy will forever be lesser evilism. I don't think it is possible any system could not "ruin lives"

[@spiritunbound9414]

@@aman-qj5sx But you agree with them for 40 min on a variety of good policies let’s say like ending corporate welfare; min wage tied to inflation or production; even in many instances single payer healthcare. All policies that have a direct impact on material well being. Then boom! Just like that a culture issue like trans people using a bathroom or dr. Seuss and it’s blown to bits. The reactionary instinct kicks in and now they have zero interest in entertaining a person or candidate that wants to push for those very same policies you just agreed on for 40 min over a dumb culture issue (in many instances) that has no impact on THEIR life.

[@themeerkat6034]

I feel like in most of the KK&F clips I've seen Kyle jumps in impatiently and speaks over Krystal and sometimes the guests which sometimes turns me off from the podcast. This episode he showed a lot more patience and gave the others more time to speak, and I respect that he's trying to avoid the interrupting and speaking over others. Keep it up Kyle.

[@Engineer_Heathen]

Kyle is just so used to working by himself. He was brutal with interrupting when the show first started, but he's getting much better at it with every episode.

[@themeerkat6034]

@@Engineer_Heathen I also speculate that he’s been using stimulants recently (no judgement, i too use drugs, and he’s mentioned it b4), and I can say from experience that certain drugs will put you in a mood where you’ll just wanna talk and talk and talk. And since he was used to doing a solo show, like you mentioned, the drugs likely exacerbated his interrupting in this new environment. That said, showing restraint like he does in this clip is good and it shows that he’s making a conscious effort to be a good news host, and I respect that. I see myself a lot in Kyle, so I know that it can be difficult not to chime in when talking about important topics.

[@theMosen]

@@themeerkat6034 Well the parts Kyle clips for his show tend to be parts where he had a lot to say or a lot to ask. Kyle does sometimes push himself too much to the forefront, But it's not as bad as these clips might give you the impression. I would totally recommend watching or listening to full episodes. As someone who has been subbed to SecTalk since the black blanket background days, I was sceptical at first, be there's honestly never an uninteresting moment.

[@alexdflop]

@@theMosen Actually I'm a big fan of Kyle in general and I've listened to most full episodes of KK&F, and I 100% co-sign Meerkat's criticism here. It often comes off like Kyle's doing too much in the pod, though I agree with both the cause (he's used to going solo) and the idea that he's getting better as time goes on. I'd guess that people who identify more strongly with Krystal's rhetorical style feel more strongly about it, too.

[@Eralen00]

yeah he's been doing secular talk by himself for years, i don't ever recall him having a guest or doing interviews on that show. He has done a few appearances on mainstream news shows, and you pretty much _have to_ interrupt those guys, otherwise they'll just lie and smear you if you don't aggressively correct them or defend your position, as he explained in one of his videos from a long time ago

[@randysavage1011]

I appreciate anyone who shows up in person to defend themselves.

[@laurencewhite4809]

Vaush was too nice Krystal. Watch his videos about her and the rising where he honestly dissects her BS without him being concerned about offending her.

[@bustamoveorelse]

@@laurencewhite4809 You sound like a 12 year old

[@iammclovin1672]

Did you tune out her response to what her goal of the show was? And vaush himself admitting that it was a fair rebuttal ? The rising is just a bridge to get people to agree on popular issues. Kinda how msm media should be, right? They’re pretty much a Corp media outlet but actually bring on excellent guests from time to time.

[@GreyRock100]

What if they're your enemy?

[@iammclovin1672]

@@GreyRock100 who’s they?

[@nicolasreyes2190]

Kyle seems to be suffering horribly when having to sit in silence there hahaha but I'm so glad he's managing to do it. I've seen Kyle's videos for almost a decade now and as lame as it sounds everyone who has seen someone for so long knows you develop a weird one sided relationship with the person and in this case I'm just so glad to see that he is learning to shut up and listen because he's so used to talking to himself for hours uninterrupted and that for sure has negative consequences.

[@_TehTJ_]

He worked pretty much solo, or at least presented solo, for so long I imagine there's some adjusting pain when it comes to learning how to co-host as opposed to host.

[@snuzzlebumble]

The major disagreement on this issue between Krystal and Vaush seems to be: Krystal thinks working with the right wing is good if you agree on the problems. Vaush thinks working with the right wing is only good if you agree on solutions.

[@rice_frying_shrimp]

very well put

[@WapitalismandWreedom]

meaning vaush never works with the right. if you agree on the solutions then you're on the same side politically

[@babybuds88]

True True True

[@null6955]

i thought his rant was more saying the problem is though they agreed on the issues, they never talked through the solutions at all. and because of that krystal made it seem like republicans could be worked with bc they "agree there are issues". its like that's the bare minimum, so the show was not actually doing anything. and that's true. what is the point of saying the show is about how the other side aren't horrible people when they never use their pov to do something constructive like talk about solutions and why it would work/wouldn't work.

[@WapitalismandWreedom]

@@null6955 can you name another maintsream show that presents two contrary opinions? I dont. appreciate the show for what it is, an example of the right and left actually talking to each other. not everyone needs to be super policy or solutions focused. sometimes you just need to show the opposition you're not the devil and move from there.

[@JackgarPrime]

It's still so crazy to actually see Vaush and Krystal having a conversation like this. I was never expecting that to happen in a million years. Vaush and Kyle, yes, but Krystal, I wasn't expecting.

[@undergroundman1993]

When I heard Shoe get interviewed I figured Vaush wouldn’t be far behind

[@Spithatruth]

They’re all extremely sensible

[@Dyljim]

Hopefully this opens up more opportunities for Vaush to be a guest on other shows. I imagine a big hurdle is demonstrating that you're a good guest to have on.

[@Sugarman96]

@@undergroundman1993 Hopefully the Vaush interview will eventually lead to a Hasan interview.

[@LouieV6]

@@Sugarman96 Hopefully. I’ve been waiting on those two to come together for years.

[@DarkSideOfTheBrightSide]

This is the most unexpected crossover, I thought this would never happen.

[@Odinsday]

They’ve wanted to talk to each other for awhile, they just never had the time.

[@Kalivermore925]

A couple lefties get together and talk shit ... yeah never saw that coming 🤣🤣

[@JohnCorley13]

@@Kalivermore925 I don't understand why people take vaush or destiny seriously at all. I heard destiny comparing himself to Sean Carroll and I was like I'm out. These guys are clowns. Entertaining tho. Decent rhetoric. Not a lot of substance as far as I can tell. Overrated thinkers

[@Kain5th]

@@JohnCorley13 who do you prefer to watch?

[@SRartz25]

@@JohnCorley13 don't compare vaush to destiny lmao

[@jfuite]

Vaush: "There is nothing inherently leftist about me. If I was born to a different set of parents, then I could have been a conservative." I think this is a remarkable statement that I think is true for most people, and clearly stated almost never. I think people need to see how much they are influenced by their surroundings. The best way is to take the best ideas from the conservatives and the best ideas among the liberals, and make them your own.

[@ryancarls]

Most conservatives i know grew up around democrats or socialist . I think it is somewhat condescending that someones political view is a product of their upbringing and not from their thinking.

[@AlanGarciaC.1093]

So we fall back again to the nature vs nurture debate. If you're on the left you will say nurture, if you're on the right you will say nature. We know that temperament determines your political views. I'm on the right. I think that my temperament is heavily determined by my genes (not entirely, of course, but very heavily). You guys probably think that temperament is constructed through socialization. So sure. I get why you guys would think that what Vaush says is noble. But it still is a point of contention in the culture war.

[@kyleganse4978]

The issue is some of them are contradictory and where do you decide one approach or the other. The reality neither has absolute answers and both answers will be needed and wisdom is knowing when to act with specific remedies.

[@jfuite]

@Kyle Ganse Excellently stated. Any fair, independently minded person can see that at different times, the best approach may come from either the conservative or liberal side of an issue. That’s why cultivating a healthy “public square” for wise social debate is so paramount. And, that’s why the lack of a fair, functional public square is harming society today.

[@thezfunk]

@@AlanGarciaC.1093 The science that has worked on left vs. right thinking people seem to, so far, show that it is more nature than nurture.

[@SimpCity2000]

Vaush is right, and it is exactly why I stopped watching Rising a while ago. I am glad to hear people willing to call Krystal out for standing shoulder to shoulder with the far right. She is not emboldening the left, she is consistently dismantling it for the benefit of the right whether she means to or not.

[@nataliekhanyola5669]

Vaush does the same thing just for your average neo-liberal democrat!🙄🙄

[@vertigo2894]

That's the problem, both her and Saagar attack the democrats. Krystal is still very bitter with the democrats cause she lost her election.

[@chrisgregg2092]

I can't believe this is actually happening.

[@sozialdemokrat4891]

As soon as vaush distances himself from destiny he gets on kyles show :D

[@CP-ir3ft]

me too for some reason i didn't expect this at all. proud of them.

[@FuckYoutube554]

@@sozialdemokrat4891 what happened with Destiny and Vaush?

[@oraz.]

Vaush is atrocious

[@Wahhh2276]

@@FuckKZbin554 Destiny became pretty childish and uncharitable towards Vaush and its come to the point that whenever they debate they both become pretty hyperbolic. Plus on Destiny stream where he reacts to Vausg saying he's done with Destiny he just laughs at all the things that he's done to Vaush, like getting be to try and dox Vaush etc.

[@Luis-vx1tx]

I appreciate that Vaush and Krystal were good sports

[@Peasham]

Vaush wasn't a good sport, he wasn't honest about what he said about both of them.

[@robeson1231]

Krystal's an obvious grifter

[@Isaac-eg3um]

@@Peasham poop sock

[@saintsfearful]

@@robeson1231 really now? How?

[@aTron0018]

@@saintsfearful No specific evidence will ever be given by @Peasham , just vague gesturing. VDS.

[@traviswalkman7631]

Vaush is super annoying.

[@moscreefus]

He's dead on about that last point, but I hope he and everyone else gets that this isn't just a conservative problem. Krystal addressed the underlying issue perfectly I think

[@wohdinhel]

Well, no, it’s obviously not “just a conservative problem”, we deal with this from tankies constantly as well. The problem is ANY dogmatic ideology which discards reason, regardless of what “side” it’s coming from. It just so happens that tankies are an extreme minority, whereas it’s pretty much the entirety of the conservative wing that engages in this. Once again, it’s a false dichotomy.

[@moscreefus]

@@wohdinhel The left has plenty of culture war issues upon which it will get hung up and ignore the 80% of things people can agree on. Pointing fingers is the problem. Don't be part of it

[@skipklauber1162]

The present Establishment elite has one master trick in its arsenal. Every time folks start getting close to figuring out the actual truth (problems based upon class, DC selling out to China due to greed, etc.) roll out racial divisiveness. As long as that trick continues to work the elite feel safe.

[@masondickerson9466]

It's not *just* a conservative problem, however it is many times more likely to show up in conservative circles than leftist ones.

[@skipklauber1162]

@@masondickerson9466 Wrong. Just flip conservative/liberal (or whatever fashionable term used for “liberal”) depending on your pre-existing prejudice. Is there some difference between “conservatives” ignoring racism or prejudice and those on the left ignoring Antifa or violence or riots or looting?

[@dgemini2]

It's probably good that she didn't watch his content or I don't think she would have wanted to do this. Of course, Vausch was very civil here, but he was not at all civil on his show. I always felt like he had a fundamental misunderstanding of what she was trying to do. He said she was disingenuous, but I never felt that way. Some of his criticism was legit, but I never understood why he was so vicious in his tone. Anyway, fascinating moment to watch.

[@ricardobarahona3939]

Didn’t you watch the video where she downplayed the dangers of the right after the election, she said dems were fear mongering of a conservative riot when it did happen in Jan 6, (this is based on a take right after the election in November). He has every right to mad at her including times where she she has gaps on her coverage. He never downplayed her importance when it comes to expanding the Overton window on Rising but some bad takes she did.

[@DR-hy6is]

She makes it easier for the right to claim their false equivalency despite knowing better. That means she is arguing in bad faith. I do not care about her reasons. She is filth.

[@cptsketch13]

Because he's a clickbaiting neck beard pandering to an audience

[@idorandomstuff2478]

i think his biggest thing is that she doesn’t fight hard enough against thr weird narratives saagar tries to push (idk how to spell his name lol) and that just never ending cynicism without meaningful solutions, which means making entire segments on solutions not dropping in here and there “abolish the filabuster & elect bernie”, can lead ppl down rlly bad roads.

[@idorandomstuff2478]

@@cptsketch13 i mean he’s gotten way more calm over time plus his audience is currently malding in his twitter feed bc they wanted him to go harder on her & he didn’t, so i guess he isn’t pandering to them now?? yall weird

[@darkfluid5004]

“Reading the title.” Finally, the long awaited moment has happened.

[@just_a_turtle_chad]

A Turtle approves of this long awaited moment.

[@queeniegreengrass3513]

@@just_a_turtle_chad in life, birth, death and the soshellist turtle are forever constants

[@thedevilsadvocate8766]

"Our battle will be legendary." Did not disappoint

[@Preacher_.]

What.. All he did was agree with her and throw up strawmans... After bashing her relentlessly on his stream for things she didn't say or do.

[@TCt83067695]

Long awaited? It's so disappointing they didn't get an apology from him

[@ignaciojoseminyambres4867]

I am European. Yes, from one of those countries with, you know, public health and free education and stuff. If this Vaush (first time I heard this guy) is left wing, I am the Queen of England. "I am an Anarchist, vote for Biden". ROFL

[@chupacabra_7684]

Yes.

[@zvendiearschficker4892]

That's how bad it is here

[@colorbugoriginals4457]

True journalism, open discussion with each other, this is great. RIP MSM.

[@diegol.4664]

not journalism, but punditry. Good punditry, but punditry nonetheless. Journalism involves sources, breaking a story, etc.

[@nappyk96]

@@diegol.4664 Who would you consider a "journalist" out of curiosity?

[@nappyk96]

@Colorbug the MSM won't die until traditional television and KZbin do I say KZbin because if you didn't know they give msm a incredibly unfair advantage over alternative media by pushing them on people relentlessly I mean I never watch any main stream media but still I get recommended it everyday and I get unsubscribed to channels I actually watch like secular talk for example.

[@h.l.malazan5782]

Krystal Ball gave the smallest support recognizing the full context of the storming of the capitol on January 8, and the insecure Justice Dem supporters constantly feel obligated to push back on it. "But storming the capitol is wrong, right? Right? Right?" How many times does she have to condemn the riot before the snowflakes will back off?

[@h.l.malazan5782]

@@TheRybka30 I'm just asking a question. What? Am I invading your safe space?

[@SomethingVISCID]

"Krystal Kyle" is a good name for craft vodka..... get on it.

[@wooww91619]

@sine moderamine we’ve got another shill for big seltzer 🚨🚨

[@SomethingVISCID]

@sine moderamine It prevents its own hangover!

[@cris471]

It would also be a good name for a progressive punk band 😊😊

[@cris471]

You are heaven sent !! This is the beginning of a legend !! Bigger than the Ramones and the Pistols 😂😂

[@nuclearcatbaby1131]

Grey Goose sounds like the fancy gourmet version of Toilet Duck

[@kyliekulinski3856]

Destiny argued in bad faith in this debate

[@redacted_vombat5742]

@@yukiminami9202 destiny lost his mind

[@Karlwasright]

Even when he's being respectful, he's being petulant.

[@EdCamarillo]

Krystal much respect for your response to Vaush. You used your response to him to prove your point about finding common ground and trying to have meaningful and respectful discourse.

[@bidhrohi12]

She's doing the same thing Dave Rubin did. She'll find Christ and be on Prager U soon enough.

[@zking2929]

@@bidhrohi12 "yeah then she'll be a white nationalist!" You people are always jumping to extremes falling into the prey of the system to divide us. You sound like the same people who tout Qanon, covid conspiracies, anti Vax, etc......

[@TheBeatlesMan96]

@@bidhrohi12This aged like milk, how’s that stupid prediction working out for ya?

[@valiantcashcow]

What are kyle´s and Krystal´s position on Alden´s number?

[@why-even-try-brotendo]

Mine is too nuanced and convoluted for Hue Manns to understand.

[@ShivdevSingh]

lmao!

[@friendlypup5650]

Oh yeah, Alden’s number. I’ve heard of that... I think...

[@faulker2p]

What is that?

[@wublesmoop6125]

I wonder what they would do, if hypothetically, their plane crashed on an island...

[@Blah64]

Oh wow, so Krystal admits she did some soul searching after the blm stuff last year. I felt like there was a noticeable shift in how she handled disagreeing with Saager ever since the blm protests.

[@michaelr3583]

@CRT is anti White hatred Smash cultural marxism Really, who did they kill?

[@Aeluron]

The user name is really all you need to understand why

[@mrlarvux]

@CRT is anti White hatred Smash cultural marxism Lol

[@lunallia2859]

@CRT is anti White hatred Smash cultural marxism grow up

[@Kiljaedenas]

@CRT is anti White hatred Smash cultural marxism Prove that statement you dolt, and don't try upvoting your own comment to look cool.

[@TheDudimus]

I really appreciate this direct, open dialog.

[@GeorgiaOverdrive]

I sometimes can’t watch Vaush because he tends to use a condescending tone in his voice when he thinks he knows something better than anyone else.

[@LaMaiStyle]

It’s annoying.

[@Farvadude]

i could tolerate his tone a lot more if he weren't so ignorant and hypocritical so often. that's what makes it so offensive

[@TheFirstHurrah]

He's VERY good at speaking, very articulate, but I think that often gives people the impression that he's more intelligent than he is.

[@Farvadude]

@@TheFirstHurrah i don't think he's even that good at it, just better than most people due to experience and his aggression often overwhelms them. watch his debate with actual justice warrior to see vaush fall apart when up against someone who really knows their stuff and researched their opponent's knowledge base well.

[@HeelTJ]

@@TheFirstHurrah He and Destiny are basically the Ben Shapiro's of the left

[@bird6691]

"Sagaar has plenty of cringe views" lol

[@pranays]

Sagaar is Tucker's house boy.

[@peterroberts4415]

Sagaar > Krystal

[@xxbrian69herxx88]

@@peterroberts4415 😂😂😂

[@tallking7777]

Sagaar is a f****** douchebag.

[@bw8973]

@@peterroberts4415 1000% Also, a giant pile of corn filled diarrhea > vaush

[@jcboyle82]

I LOVE this! The left needs more of this. The right is good at the “crossover events” and the left needs more of it! This is great!

[@MrFishateyokids]

Yes I cant wait til they interview Jimmy dore

[@redacted_vombat5742]

"Crossover event" remembering the Blair white/candace Owens incident on the rubin report

[@oraz.]

I'm just trying to imagine someone having positive feelings seeing vaush.

[@NotTrileon]

Vaush is not on the left. He is a grifter

[@LittleDesertFlower78]

Totally agree! 💯🎯🙌🏻 All 3 of them showed a remarkable amount of rself control, courtesy, and character in this exchange - & I fucking loved seeing that! Because the uncharitability, mean spiritedness, and smug self righteousness & rush to judgement (based on assumptions) that I see & encounter on social media can be incredibly disheartening sometimes.. So seeing 3 smart ppl w/ strongly held convictions & courage to express their views - even when they are critical - who can do so in a way that's honest, but not hateful or derisive.. That was really nice to see. (And I hope their exchange can serve as a positive example to some ppl, showing that its possible to express criticism, disagreement, AND also be decent & show respect to another person with whom you disagree on some things w/o compromusing any convictiona. Think it would be a better world if more ppl realized that its not necessary to be a f-ing dick, & talk shit to someone, simply because there are some views that you disagree on - especially if the other person is acting in good faith & is being civil. In that kind of situation there's jst no reason to come back at the other person w/ vitriol, denigrating them, & lobbing ad hom attacks, etc..And not only is it unnecessary & pointless, its often a counterproductive thing to do too.)

[@GreenLanternCorps2814]

I agree with Vaush. I have long felt that most of what Rising did was equivocate the parties and minimize the evil things that the GOP did with whataboutisms.

[@prttyboy126]

They both do really bad things, how do people not get this yet. And don't say "yea but GOP", no.

[@brett84c]

Vaush made a really good point at the end there that struck too close to home. I often find myself agreeing with my liberal friends on lots of issues, but we always get hung up on culture war stuff and that is always what gets us fired up and becoming the one issue we hyper focus on. It's sad.

[@jthom0027]

I have the same issue and I'm an actual leftist. I can not stand culture war shit on either side. People like Vaush get caught up in that shit because he really doesn't care all that much about the socio-economic issues in the country. He's comfortable making hundreds of thousands of dollars on Twitch so who gives a shit if the Democrats or Republicans keep winning forever, it won't affect him negatively at all.

[@eXcommunicate1979]

@@jthom0027 That... is a 100% bad take on Vaush. At least in hindsight a year later.

[@PrestoJacobson]

​@@jthom0027 plus him saying he doesn't find it worth the time to properly apologize to Poppy.

[@007nadineL]

It's a feature not a bug. Keep the low classes from fighting about affordable housing

[@timrattray]

Timing... considering Rising just ended....

[@MostlyLoveOfMusic]

oh wow yeah

[@rtorres4132]

"Just got done speaking with krystalball and KyleKulinski on their show! Fantastic conversation; it'll be on their Substack tomorrow and their podcast on Saturday." - Vasuh May 27, 2021 12:42pm

[@adxdenerlx6969]

Fat Ian's last action before turning into buff Ian, just to ensure the legacy lasts after him

[@Robnas621]

Wait... what do u mean Rising just ended?

[@Supernautiloid]

@@Robnas621 it’s over, Krystal and Saagar are leaving the Hill and going independent

[@harrisy98]

I never knew that the dynamic between these 3 would be so productive.

[@lurkingposter]

Good faith actors that agree on 99.99% of political issues have a productive discussion. What a surprise. 🙄

[@ChrisDeVera1982]

3 in a pod, no diversity. Let’s not confuse politeness with productivity

[@__foam]

“Vaush” and “productive” are oxymorons

[@westernartifact4163]

There's no one that Vaush could incessantly call a racist for an hour. Yes, in other words it was an enjoyable discourse.

[@nfb4027]

Vaush is a narcissistic idpol crypto-shitlib hipster clout-chasing troll - that just got a bigger platform to be one so he's on his best behavior.

[@timnelson3431]

It's subtle and whiny but for whatever reason, I can't stand when people ask themselves a question and then answer it. Like "Do I think that people can be bad?", "Yes, yes I think people can be bad". I would rather people just come out and say "I think people can be bad". No need for the question set up.

[@kenwoodbury1888]

A pet peeve of mine also.

[@thinkpad20]

Hear hear. One of the more obnoxious trends of speaking that seems to have emerged in the past few years. Not a fan.

[@mauvemaven]

It’s helpful for refocusing listeners or the rest who can’t follow the conversation sentence-for-sentence.

[@Keldoh3ad]

Why does right wing populism always seem to be a first step towards authoritarianism and nationalism?

[@Hunter_Brandon]

Why does socialism lead to fascism and why does communism lead to mass death?

[@GabiGhita]

I first read it as: "Vaush explains his issue with... ... rising to Krystal's face"

[@electron6825]

👀

[@charliewhite3905]

Worst title ever

[@xybersurfer]

what do you mean with "..." ?

[@GabiGhita]

@@xybersurfer nothing, just used it to accentuate how I separated the phrase in my head

[@xybersurfer]

@@GabiGhita aha! i get it now

[@Mike_C-79]

I watched Rising regularly but I think their analysis was too skewed against Democrats because Krystal would criticize the Dem establishment because she's a lefty who cares about where the Democratic party has gone and Sagar would criticize the Dems because he's conservative. I think we need to see that criticism, but the Republican party deserves way more criticism than what Rising gave.

[@murk4552]

The Rising is owned by a billionaire in Murdoch's own class of friends. So that's unsurprising of them to not go in hard as much as to who they rely on for dollars and views.

[@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer]

The Republicans ills are obvious. The dems ills arent obvious to dem loyalists. It needs to be pointed out more than the republicans.

[@ifyano9731]

100% correct

[@Jotakumon]

@@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer They're obvious because we usually point them out constantly. But if we don't keep doing so, they might not be as obvious in the long term. The fact that so many people now hold the position that Dems and Reps are the same is alarming. They're the same on many issues, and they're diametrically opposed on others, such as how they broadly treat minorities.

[@cjr4516]

I totally disagree. They bashed trump and fox news at every chance they got. Maybe the dems needed some criticism too

[@TheJosephPrice]

Let’s just be honest, Rising would intentionally cater to right wingers with their titles and stories and spent more time criticizing the Democrats, while blatantly ignoring the creeping growth of fascism in the GOP.

[@thecoolannishatk.]

Yes and? This implies they never gave the gop shit which they did.

[@panama2468]

"i'm gonna assume everything was said in good faith and substantive" SHOTS FIRED! XD

[@shortstuff780]

Love how sly and witty she is. She's great

[@destroytheboxes]

Yea. She pwned him in that simple line. He probably missed it.

[@adamlynch6954]

@@shortstuff780 she's awful

[@bfizz1e187]

they were not. vaush is a despicable loser

[@matts8708]

Vaush is a little more bold and his critique more brutal when's he not saying it to her face.

[@devonreeves4630]

Yeah, it’s just not advantageous to be a firebrand when you’re being introduced to a large audience like Kyle and Krystal’s that prefers less explosive commentary. I still think the core criticism that Saagar doesn’t receive enough direct pushback for some of his absurd and anti-democratic positions is valid, even though Vaush often doesn’t deliver his criticisms in a very tasteful way.

[@matts8708]

@@devonreeves4630 Very true. It's also probably not a good idea to be a firebrand when you host a show with someone you disagree strongly with on certain issues, otherwise the show could devolve into very heated arguments which would be contrary to what the shows "mission" is, if you believe Krystal's explanation. Plus, if she pushed back to the extent we think she should, then Saagar would be pushing back on her ideas that he doesn't agree with. I'm sure there are viewers of their show on the right who say the same about him and think he should push back on her leftist ideas.

[@comyuse9103]

because he isn't a dick? when you are talking to someone and they aren't being an ass to you you typically don't start being an ass first.

[@michaelcorcoran8768]

@@comyuse9103 he literally called her a 'grifting b****" behind her back on a stream. He can be polite but actually address the severity of his comments. This is two-faced chickenshit

[@thesealrebellion]

@@michaelcorcoran8768 cry more

[@JokinJoe]

Unrelated but I love the backdrop and color theme of this show

[@indeedken]

Its so minty

[@Spongebrain97]

Squidward color

[@juuk3103]

Old 70's pastel colors, there used to be cars and kitchens in this color lol or very similar

[@chuckwilliams6261]

I like that Kyle's jacket matched the set, and Krystal's dress matched the border.

[@lebowe6131]

It would be fun for them to bring on different historians to talk anything from.lenin to reagan

[@Seth9809]

I'm from the future and The Rising is dead, and Breaking Points is a far-right grift.

[@glennsteven]

I unsubscribed of RISING because Krystal and Saagar are gone and Ryan Grim took over. That's all I have to say.

[@kendrakitten3276]

Didn't realize this until I saw your comment. I don't watch it as much, just because there's so many videos put out by the hill - all those videos showing what the politicians are saying (no commentary). I would have guessed Krysal and Saagar leaving would have been a deal breaker for me, but I like Ryan Grim and I love Emily Jasinsky.

[@NeoFryBoy]

Ryan is a good lefty which means you're probably an enlightened centrist?

[@GuRuGeorge03]

we are at a point in history where civil discourse like this actually feels "cringe" because it's so rare. this is one of these moments where it hits me, that we actually live in an idiocracy and it gets worse each day.

[@xSayPleasex]

@@ThatGuy-kz3fx No cringe is real. Often stemming from social awkwardness, obvious fakeness, "trying to hard", ADD-like behavior etc.

[@venenodelalengua]

hear hear

[@Arkain89]

this comment is pretty cringe

[@squall13]

I find that people who say this shit don't realize that most likely they're part of said group

[@bobpope3656]

@@ThatGuy-kz3fx what?!?!?! no cringe is real. When somebody be is so insecure I can feel it, that is cringe

[@usernamehandle]

Why is everyone praising the civility of this discussion? Like when adults with differing opinions are in the same room they can’t disagree and have a constructive discussion? Is this how low the bar is with everyone on Twitter? That the most people can say is that this was civil?

[@kwameasante5888]

Thank you

[@eemoogee160]

Its rare and doesn't typically generate ratings

[@torbjornlekberg7756]

It is the currently all too common lack of this in political discussion that makes people happy to see it.

[@blacksowrd53]

Have you seen the Hasan and destiny feud? Things don't always stay civil

[@JadoDog]

It's mainly because Kyle fans were so convinced Vaush is the devil and he was going to come on and spew obscenities and dox the both of them and put CP on the screen and etc etc. As a fan of both of them, it was extremely entertaining watching these people riot and validating to see the people appear shocked that people know how to have conversations.

[@Donttreadonme2024]

These two don't think the Democrat party are bad. They are in it with both feet

[@johnm_inmn4745]

Great point by Vaush at the end on right wing populism. I’ve always thought Saagar’s RW populism was somewhat fraudulent and Vaush touches on it here.

[@johnm_inmn4745]

@@ThomasTedison I can't go long with you here. Trumpism is faux populism. True populism is a multi-racial mass movement of working class people for economic progressivism. It is and was a movement of the left.

[@ericpreston8877]

Socialism is not populist at all. Populism of both left and right is incoherent. It wants to hook the working class further into the system of capitalist production instead of extricating them from it.

[@NeilTruick]

I had no idea Krystal and Saagar were leaving The Hill as of...like, hours ago.

[@sadiemakesmesmile]

so sad :(

[@dmgib5239]

do you guys know why?

[@helene420]

This is kind of shocking since it's such a successful show, now wondering wth happened behind the scenes.?? It's the only somewhat tolerable way I get the news since I reduse to watch MSM.

[@owencorey9720]

@@ghenulo Emily has some great panels!

[@tvallejo1922]

@@dmgib5239 Probably Palestine coverage, but they won't say

[@bobkoshy7869]

Kyle is the best here.

[@robeson1231]

Kyle is never the best

[@Soren59]

@Vicks VaporRub nevern't

[@philhunt26]

Yeah. He was quiet.

[@hillaryclintondidnothingwrong]

Kyle didn't say anything.

[@therussiantrollnetwork7464]

He was the worst. He needs to leave his bubble.

[@YouTubeCensors]

I don't like this guy. His long drawn out answers alone says so much about him. He's like a politician trying to answer a question without answering.

[@gmenjoesalcido]

Does Vaush have a giant painting of himself on his wall?

[@666marquis]

No ego there.

[@tofuteh2348]

@@666marquis pretty sure its a gift from a fan but ok

[@666marquis]

@@tofuteh2348 So that means the guy isn't in love with himself?

[@tofuteh2348]

@@666marquis maybe, maybe not, but to jump to that conclusion is kinda weird. This is typical youtuber stuff

[@666marquis]

@@tofuteh2348 I'm drawing the conclusion based on more than just the self portrait, bud.

[@risingraven23]

Next Goal: Krystal, Kyle, Vaush, and Hassan. If you get those four talking to each other and if their bases unite, we might have something going.

[@Mydogslove2laugh]

I love Hasan and Kyle and Krystal

[@ghostbeer2522]

Special guest: David Pakman (once a week)

[@evanmaguire5976]

@@ghostbeer2522 (only for members)**

[@jodinha4225]

im in all 4 of their bases...

[@contentofficial2129]

tuhhhROOOOOOO

[@assreductionist8575]

A quote from Vaush (paraphrased) I remember and respect: “It’s easy to agree on what the problems are, but it’s in the SOLUTIONS you find your allies.”

[@victorespino5650]

Exactly. If you speak to most right or left wingers, you'll find they all share the same issues, it's just the solutions that we all disagree on. But we can't come to it. Lol

[@alexsoussani1936]

Yeah I really hope he said that at some point during the interview

[@ianbanks3016]

And the solution is not Joe Biden.

[@jimtroy4380]

@@ianbanks3016 Neither Trump or doing nothing

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

@@jimtroy4380 I agree with both of you. that's why we need to stop playing "lesser evilism" it is LITERALLY doing nothing. its the physical manifestation of the trope "when good men do nothing evil wins" Stop doing lesser evilism and try something.. anything else.

[@Anthony_MD]

Krystal: “I was appalled as anyone could be about January 6th” Krystal one month earlier: “Will all you shit libs stop worrying about Trump not conceding, suing PA, citing fake fraud, etc. This isn’t anything serious!” She literally minimized this for months and then feigned outrage lol

[@hurkamur1]

Totally. I used to defend her prior to that, it was incredibly stupid. I stopped my occasional viewing after that.

[@King_Solomon_the_Libtart]

Yeah, no that’s not really the same thing. Even Vaush in this interview said the Jan 6th thing wasn’t going to overthrow the US government. That’s Krystal’s point and she was right. It didn’t change the outcome of the election. You can be disgusted with things that aren’t catastrophic.

[@Tbiblaine23]

January 6th wasn’t a big deal. Of the 5 people that died, all 5 were protestors, 4 from heart attacks and 1 from being shot by capitol police. I genuinely don’t understand why liberals are freaking out like it was 9/11

[@Anthony_MD]

@@Tbiblaine23 Did you know that 0 people died during the October Revolution in 1917? Coups don’t need killings to be historically serious

[@Tbiblaine23]

@@Anthony_MD well that’d be great if this was a coup but it wasn’t lmao

[@SquadDirector]

That last point that Vaush made is why I agreed with his critique of 'Rising.' Saagar has said some ridiculous shit while Krystal just sat there and didn't even push back. Also, both Krystal and Saagar would point out the short comings of the democratic party, which is very much encouraged, but rarely did I watch a segment on Rising that focused on the right like they did on the left.

[@Thunder103093]

no idea what you were talking about because i saw them all the time attack the right

[@mushroomsteve]

This was a good conversation, and it really got me to step back and reflect on my own attitudes a bit. Thanks for this.

[@johnb7046]

Watch it again and now look at Vaush through the lens of pretentiousness. You'll realize he's a fraud. Regardless, all the best to you. We must all reflect, youre right on that.

[@waltergrace565]

@@johnb7046 straight grifter

[@dwangnoderbora]

@@johnb7046 What about his argument do you think he wasn't qualified to argue?

[@infinitedm5396]

@@johnb7046 this is such a weird take. "Watch again but project intention and assumptions"

[@ball5942]

@@johnb7046 lol what

[@michaelmaginn7081]

I like Vaush, and Kyle. At one point I was falling in the 2016 KZbin rabbit hole a little. Everyone knew Hillary Clinton had missing Emails. Kyle was one of the only people talking about real things like getting town hall questions beforehand. I was interested in the missing Emails, and to see the other youtubers saying her use of the word pizza meant children was an obvious wild leap that I wouldn’t follow. I don’t know if Fox News even cared that she got town hall questions beforehand. Kyle was legit and spoke on policies to help people. A Vaush video came up in my recommended one day, and ever since his videos have broadened my empathy to other people’s lives. I don’t agree with everything they’ve ever said, but they are real, and I appreciate that.

[@Dennzer1]

✔

[@maikorage444]

Oof. I felt that. I fell out of that rabbit hole fairly recently. Vaush popped up on my recommended during the Smash Bros fiasco. I liked his energy and started watching his other videos. Dude changed my perception on things and I had to do a lot of soul searching. Nonetheless, I'm glad you dug yourself out man.

[@darkcrystalmagik3369]

I used to really like Kyle despite finding some of his takes naive or uniformed. He pissed me off on occasion to with his blind spots like racial or women's rights issues. However I heard about Vaush first here in Kyle's chat from someone else who like me vehemently disagreed with Kyle's defense of Krystal (who I also watched everyday for several months in the lead up to and during the primary- Rising quickly went to shit after that). That combined with enough bad takes over several years led to me unsubbing from Kyle. (Packman too at the same time, and Tim Black soon followed tho of course I didnt watch him nearly as long) And I subbed to Vaush based on his completely valid criticism- he was saying what I had felt for weeks (only more articulately and with more words, lol). Watched about 1/3 of his videos for the last 10 months since. Only back here to see him. However I am really glad Kyle invited him on. I never felt Kyle was bad faith- I believe he cares deeply. I just didnt feel I could learn anything from him any more bc he had become too comfortable and a lil lazy. Ball I have absolutely no use for. She is a liar.

[@gaetano5669]

Kyle is a Democrat at the end of the day, he’ll only take you so far.

[@alexanderplatypus3664]

Exactly. Kyle can help to deradicalize right-wing drifting people by admitting and acknowledging some basic factual minor corruption within the Dem Party establishment. Too many lefties get trapped into thinking they can never admit ANYTHING is bad about someone like Biden , Hillary, etc.

[@lawsonj39]

WTF? I go on vacation for three weeks and come back to find out Krystal and Saagar aren't doing Rising anymore? Clearly, I can never leave home again.

[@frostiesr345]

Maybe I’ve misunderstood Vaush in the past, but I’ve seen multiple videos of him definitely saying that the other side is the enemy and being extremely polar with zero empathy for opinions he can’t understand. Yet here he is kowtowing to Krystal while he’s on their show. Seems incredibly disingenuous. Could definitely be wrong not only about his previously expressed views and bc of the fact that this is just a teaser

[@ansnwang1134]

well he gets into his criticism towards the end of the video

[@boreragnarok4680]

Vowsh tends to have empathy for people who've got conservative brainrot, he just doesn't have any empathy for their opinions (which he does understand, he just disagrees with them). I mean, how much respect should you have for an opinion that's like "Trump won the election even though he's failed massively to prove it in court". Conservatives are victims of propoganda and I do think we need to make it clear to them that some of their opinions are subhumanly stupid but that they're not these degenerates who're beyond redemption and that behind all the political narratives they've bought into there's still probably a really cool person who also deserves happiness as much as anyone else. I think this is generally the posotion vaush holds. I remember him once debating a teenager who was arguing for race realism and Vaush didn't even go super hard on demonizing him, he was much more sad than anything else and felt really bad that the kid got groped into that shit.

[@frostiesr345]

@@boreragnarok4680 ok so you illustrated my point pretty well, first of all you are equalizing conservative view points with Trump winning the election. There are a lot of people who are republicans who don’t believe that. Second you referred to their opinions as “subhuman” which is disgusting and in the same breath called them redeemable. You’re painting half the country with the same brush. Does Antifa or some even more extreme lefty group represent me or the rest of liberals? Absolutely not. To my eye his perspective is phenomenally black and white. But we’ll see in the new video, and I’ll go back to his channel and watch a few of his most popular videos to see what’s what. My friend did point out to me that it was possible that his most controversial videos popped up on my feed (I watched 4 or 5 of them).

[@BryanBMusic]

I’m from a conservative town and I know from experience that some people (not all) are persuadable, but you will just have them tune you out if you start with condescension or shaming. Since Krystal is from a similar town I think that’s why she’s more charitable to people with awful politics. I do find it hypocritical that Vaush claims to dislike dishonest actors and yet will frame Krystal differently on his own stream versus to her face. At the same time I do think Krystal, because she doesn’t like confrontation, gives Saagar a kid gloves treatment and could rebut (tactfully) better and more often. But overall I thought it was a rich discussion.

[@presidentresident]

I dont think Krystal's behavior is all that atypical even if she had a more confrontational personality. I think its human nature. For example, If you ever watch say that Fox show with Juan Williams and a bunch of conservatives/republicans, they never address him with near the vitriol and disrespect as they do 'the left' that doesnt happen to be their colleague and sitting right infront of them. In fact on Rising Saager is just as reticent to push back too hard against Krystal as she is to do the reverse. Thats just how people work and really how it should be imo. The political echo chambering that modern technology has exacerbated is the scourge of western civilization and really is one of the threats to the human species. Rising was actually more important than people realize(Especially the people who think those of the 'opposite' political persuasion are either evil or just engaging in flawed thinking).

[@xavwill4807]

He was just trying to be civil, but yeah krystal ball is pretty irresponsible with her takes.

[@definitelynotcrazyrei3890]

"I know from experience that some people (not all) are persuadable, but you will just have them tune you out if you start with condescension or shaming." Yeah, but that takes a lot of effort, calling them Nazis is just so much easier.

[@KyleS.1987]

Krystal gave Andy Ngo the kid gloves treatment, too. I simply don't trust her.

[@xavwill4807]

@Matt Turner ?

[@thegrimmer]

I watched both Vaush and Rising during the lead up to the capital riot and afterwards. Vaush was right that Rising downplayed the danger right up to the day. Rising's tone immediately changed that day, as any rational show would react. Vaush just had a much better feel for the pulse of what was building and his criticisms at the time were harsh but fair.

[@jirikurto3859]

"danger" Listen to yourself.

[@jirikurto3859]

Meanwhile BLM and Antifa caused exponentially more damage and it lasts to this day as violence in those same communities has mushroomed since George the silliest martyr Floyd.

[@jirikurto3859]

Vaush represents BLM and he represents Antifa. He's the neoliberal clownshow .

[@thegrimmer]

@@jirikurto3859 Nice non-sequirtors

[@lodzat]

@@jirikurto3859 found the thankies

[@JStack]

Saagar said on TMBS that he would have a million Chinese people starve to feed one American. He is inherently nationalist and a dangerous person. It once again is proof that class, him being a wealthy boy from a well off family, goes deeper than race.

[@samhhaincat2703]

100%. Saagar terrifies me.

[@vlada]

@@samhhaincat2703 hahahaha.... Sums up people perfectly. "Terrifies" 😂😂

[@jasperjaguar5453]

The kind of dude who has a painting of himself hung on his wall

[@breakupgoogle4584]

It probably flips around and has dozens of children's pictures on it. This guy is a creepy slime ball.

[@tobithetabby6376]

That's how you know you're dealing with a narcissist

[@10003159]

I have a portrsit of myself on my wall.. a classmate drew it and I hung it up because I thought it was awesome. What's wrong with that? You're an imbecile

[@jasperjaguar5453]

@@10003159 And you're obviously a reasonable person

[@10003159]

@@jasperjaguar5453 amazing deflection dude

[@mikebiggums1921]

Wow I can't believe Vaush said all those things about Krystal behind her back then brought up those same criticisms to her face in a more polite way so she can understand his argument. Crazy how he didn't just scream at her the whole time while yelling incoherent things. What a grifter am I right?

[@jaybirdjetwings7516]

Its kinda funny when Krystal deals with people that dont like her or visa versa with that smile she has

[@WhenItsHalfPastFive]

she deserves a lot of respect for that, the disgusting things Vaush has said about Krystal (called her a bitch, fascist, lying grifter etc), I would not have been able to be that calm if I was in her position.

[@CP-ir3ft]

@@WhenItsHalfPastFive he called her a bitch and a fascist? damn. do you have links?

[@Jimbles_Notronbo]

@@WhenItsHalfPastFive he didn't call her a fascist, he said that she enables fascist rhetoric by not meaningfully pushing back on Saagar's insane takes. And, in the segments that he watched on stream, he was absolutely correct.

[@JasonBoreu]

@@WhenItsHalfPastFive He called her a fascist-enabler. Saagar is the one he called a fascist(which i agree with him).

[@nathanduncan672]

@@WhenItsHalfPastFive When did he call her a bitch? Can I get a link or atleast some kind of source info?

[@maxulmer5009]

The sheer amount of views, comments and likes this has achieved in less than 24 hours speaks volumes. Things like this need to be propped up and done more often between leftists. I really think we can make a strong effort in overtaking MSM in the next 5 years if we get a leftist media snowball going.

[@natecal001]

I think everyone here just misrepresented Saagers point in the BLM protest. He didnt want the national gaurd to crack down on protesters. He wanted them to crack down on the vandals and violence that happened during the protest. He is very much in support of protesting and the first amendment. He has said that in rising many times. Which I find very reasonable and agree with.

[@WhitePillMan]

Sagaar has some terrible takes but he also has some really good ones. There’s way too much desire to only talk to people you 100% agree with. Krystal is right.

[@AutumnLeavey]

honestly great civil discussion, i feel like people who criticize rising don't get that it is (was) one of the few platforms where we had a chance to persuade people, and because it was produced by the hill, the youtube algorithm would actually promote leftist content. the way to persuade a right-winger to the left is through friendship and openness over a long period of time, and that's why accepting and inviting spaces like rising are so important.

[@BoogieDownProduction]

As a political project it might make your feel warm and fuzzy inside but overall its a waste of time. Why make "long term friendship" and persuade a right winger when you could just talk to someone who is not engaged politically instead (larger number of people)? How much energy are you going to put into converting a person? When you could talk to disenfranchised non-political people instead. Also, like Vaush has said before, agreeing on issues is a VERY small piece of the puzzle. Say we both agree on an issue but our solutions are directly opposed, then what?

[@abe8435]

@@BoogieDownProduction Why not flip this argument around and ask Vaush and his fans how much time we should waste on a political faction (the majority of the Democratic Party) that clearly disdains the left. And that’s a party, not just people in our circle and families who have different political attitudes. Vaush is now “disappointed” in Biden for acting like any knowledgeable political observer knew he was bound to act. Vaush just don’t know what he’s talking about a lot of the time

[@wickednwyld]

@@abe8435 - Vaush knew perfectly well how Biden would act. Supporting him was simply the practical matter of picking one's opponent, as he said many times. I think he was a bit positively surprised at some of Biden's initial actions, which lead to disappointment when Biden so quickly reverted to type.

[@BoogieDownProduction]

@@abe8435 Idk about you. But yes my views are more in line with the Dem voters than it is with republican voters so it's kinda a dumb question. You can argue that more time should be used on nonvoters vs Dem voters. Ok maybe thats a good idea. But the same doesn't apply to republican voters, and hence why it's a dumb political project. Even worse when you consider the right wing solutions to the problems that we both agree on (hint their solution is incompatible with most leftist solitons, like directly opposed)

[@abe8435]

@@wickednwyld “This wasn’t part of the deal Joe” - Vaush, in response to Biden’s unqualified support of Netanyahu, apparently thinking Biden had agreed to any kind of deal

[@IcarusLime]

It’s interesting how Vaush doesn’t see the irony in Republicans dropping all their agreeable positions to vote for the Republican Party, while Vaush does the same with the Democratic Party. He wants to play this “you voted for a fascist party therefore you’re a fascist” game while blind to the fact that this makes him just as responsible for all the fascistic things the Democratic Party does. It’s a branding exercise at this point.

[@darkdaxterversionz]

I really hate this double standard. It's not enough to be like, welp, I voted my conscience at the time (or abstained), and I guess I was wrong. Instead, it's "I'm still morally superior! Soon enough you'll all see."

[@cptsonicbelmont]

What "fascistic things" do the Democrats ever do...?

[@darkdaxterversionz]

@@cptsonicbelmont Well they just gave the capital police $2 billion more to crack down on future riots (read as future Lefty protests). And Dems are just as fond of war hawkery, imperialism, and genocide as their counterparts. And the Dems treat Russia the way Reps treat China. So there's a few.

[@RodGustavson]

My issue with Krystal is far to often she fails to give a progressive alternative to the Democrats. Instead, she rails on them alone out of context, leading many to think that either a) the GOP is a better alternative, or b) both parties are the same. The GOP is not better and does not support her positions, but you don’t hear that from her. And the parties are not the same. The Democrats are not perfect and they have done some awful things. Our system only works with two parties. We don’t do coalition governments. We do winner take all. This means a third party is always a spoiler, and throws the election to the second choice by splitting the votes. If you want to change, you must do so from within, just like the Tea Party has done with the GOP.

[@0rgaSMM]

Anyone with common sense can see that she does not endorse the GOP. And both parties are very similar these days, but no one thinks they are the exact same. Also stop with this vote blue no matter who crap

[@RodGustavson]

@@0rgaSMM lol. “Both parties are very similar”. That’s the result of listening to Krystal and Saagar - you get a warped sense that Democrats and MAGA are the same.

[@scotthicks1795]

Cliffhanger...it was just getting into the meat of his central critique of “Rising”.

[@skatemo100]

At least the audio will be free lol

[@DiabolicalApostle]

@@skatemo100 It's only five bucks a month. Help our boy beat Bari Weiss.

[@dudeman5303]

Yah I am shocked that's where they stopped it. I also really want to know how Krystal would respond to that because I think it's an extremely good point vaush was going on.

[@thajarin]

Yeah, I love it, you spend every penny of your "entertainment budget, if you skip a few basic necessities, just to get online... then someone tells you, it's just 5 bucks a month... ha ha good times.

[@thatsinteresting3415]

@@thajarin Also, some people live in countries where the payment services aren't even available.

[@steveg18556]

Imagine if all journalists allowed themselves to go one-on-one with honest criticism-Time Capsule this.

[@tidus9942]

Well all of the people in this episode are idiots so its not hard to criticize them all because all leftists are bad people and bad for this country in general.

[@steveg18556]

@@tidus9942 Thanks for the contribution

[@eemoogee160]

@@tidus9942 really insightful analysis.

[@YourBlackLocal]

She isn’t a journalist, she’s a pundit. People these days have completely lost what journalism even means.

[@mindvsmolly]

I don’t agree with V on a lot politically as I am conservative, but he has a way of calmly explaining his views and intelligently so that I end up understanding his difference in opinion - because of how clear he relays it. He’s also relatable and approachable. I don’t find Krystal approachable - as she may call out both dems and republicans, I just feel that she holds herself back for fear of those in her circle…and so Saagar holds himself back. They do a great job - but V is accurate in a lot of his critique.

[@SourBogBubble]

Jesus that's a lot of sentences to say literally nothing. Vaush greatest grift 2020-21

[@Boggsy.]

Feels like it was anticipated to be Jon-Stewart-on-Crossfire-2.0, but ended up a lot more civil.

[@Akumasama]

If Saagar had been there, it probably would have. Krystal's main flaw is that she doesn't call out Saagar.

[@Boggsy.]

@@Akumasama Yeah, I agree. That would have been the true confrontation with them both there.

[@fod1202]

@@Akumasama She does call him out to his face. This is not the time though.

[@xtaintedx3l0vex]

This was better than expected. I'm definitely gonna listen to the full audio when it drops Saturday. Also I agree so hard with Vaush at the end there when he described talking to people and agreeing with them for up to 40 minutes before they flip in a nano second and go full fascist. It's so f*cking disturbing sometimes. We got a lot of work cut out for us in this world.

[@Peasham]

If he wasn't saying a year ago that everyone who disagrees with him should die that might even be something to take him seriously on.

[@Jimbles_Notronbo]

@Who else Hungry rn you're simply wrong. I don't know where you get that impression but it's incredibly uninformed

[@FormThisWay]

@@Peasham Citation needed

[@nyutrig]

@@Jimbles_Notronbo nah, hes right.

[@aisjay1204]

vaush agrees with fascists because *sotto voce* vaush is a fascist larping as a leftist

[@EuriEuropa]

Yes I love Krystals response, especially when she says that not all trump voters are racist

[@xavwill4807]

I mean they might as well be

[@marathi22]

They still knowingly vote for one.

[@LunaRa22]

true but all racists are trump supporters

[@zaccoop6727]

It is highly unlikely anyone is checking at this point... but I certainly see Vaush's view on Breaking Points and Rising. She tries to see Saager's point of view, and he leans conservative. The show in general leans right, and I feel it during each show each time. She his dems, so does he. This doesn't balance the show, it has them both hitting dems. Their show has a MUCH larger conservative viewer-ship over the past many months. Put a left leaning comment up and watch people be upset trying to discuss a liberal view.

[@Hunter_Brandon]

Do you think that maybe, more people are starting to either be annoyed by or just have rebuttals to the progressive comments you’re talking about? Like, how does disagreeing with progressive comments make you a right winger?

[@ComradeHistorian]

Vaush called Krystal a fascist in his live stream, he ain't got the balls to say it to her face though

[@gilgazord0303]

Cuz it’s rude and unprofessional

[@ComradeHistorian]

@@gilgazord0303 also because it's a ridiculous claim that he would get absolutely lit up for saying

[@Sammmmmmmm617]

Lmao Krystal isn't even close to a fascist.

[@blastermaster5009]

@@gilgazord0303 It's rude and unprofessional to say it on his stream in the first place. He's garbage.

[@ComradeHistorian]

@minty_Thunderous01 you ain't gotta insult his girl, that ain't right bro

[@Kim-by5uy]

I love Vaush and Kyle. They made me realize how not-intelligent Shapiro and crowder are.

[@NishanthRajiwtbawlb]

I commend you for putting aside silly right wing tendencies but Fr these mfers are super moderate honestly. I think we need to move past all this electoralism nonsense

[@GringleTV]

We need to see another one so vaush can air his grievances about their Ukraine coverage.

[@matthewschwartz6607]

I’m new to the Vaush. I have absolutely no idea who this guy is, but he doesn’t seem all that bad. The title was a bit misleading and clickbaity.

[@DelandaBaudLacanian]

I welcome Kyle's clickbait titles in order to help game the algorithm which is always tilted in favor of authoritarians

[@DerekDominoes]

He's a synthetic leftist.

[@richardvaldes3959]

He's terrible extreme leftist

[@thinkpad20]

If you like “anarcho-Bidenists” then he’s your guy...

[@TotesAdorbs]

He's fucking awful don't do it. Go watch his opinion video of Rising and Krystal/Saagar. That will tell you what you're in for.