Vernor Vinge's Early Science Fiction, 1965-1983; A Quest for Superhuman Intelligence & Singularities

[@neilfeedthegoat9013]

I have just found the best booktube channel. Wow.

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks and welcome aboard!

[@misanthropos6211]

These videos deserve way, way more views. One of my favorite...if not my favorite...booktube channel. Truly great content. Some of the most interesting book related videos out there...by far.

[@thelibraryladder]

Wow, thank you! I have many more videos like this one to come. I have no shortage of topics I want to cover.

[@AnotherBrownAjah]

Ohhh new sci-fi recomendations are always welcome in this house. Thank you! A great discussion as always

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks! I'm glad you found it helpful!

[@krantzrosen2589]

True Names is a severely underappreciated book, it was a blast to read many years ago and it still holds up solidly today, also - a nice stepping stone into Vinge's much more complex novels.

[@thelibraryladder]

I completely agree!

[@jedisilvr]

The descriptions of what Vinge explores in his stories already had me interested, but the comparison to Ted Chiang sold me. I’m so glad this channel is able to introduce me such amazing authors. Keep up these great videos!

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks! The comparison to Chiang isn’t a perfect one, since Chiang specializes in short stories, while Vinge’s best works are longer fiction. However, they both write about big ideas, and even their weakest works are still compelling.

[@rachaelwarrington25]

I so love learning about the bigger world of Sci-Fi. So much info!

[@thelibraryladder]

I’m so glad! I have a lot more to share. Behind classic children’s books, science fiction is the next largest component of my library. Thanks for sharing!

[@jonathan.palfrey]

It's rather sweet to find you talking about a subject I know well, for a change: I've been reading and rereading all of Vernor Vinge's fiction for decades, right back to the early stories; although I started with his two Bobble novels of the mid-1980s, which I think remain my favourites.

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks! I have a real fondness for those two Across Realtime novels, although they aren’t my favorite books of his. The concepts in them are fascinating.

[@armblaster]

Just wanted to say thank you for all the great work on the channel in showcasing authors and their work. My reading list has expanded remarkably as a result. Thank you especially for this introductory video to the early works of Vernon Vinge! I wasn't aware of him or his work before and now I'm definitely interested 🙂. Looking forward to the second part.

[@thelibraryladder]

Thank you! Vinge’s later works (to be discussed in my next video) are highly readable and include multiple masterpieces, in my opinion.

[@eriktempelman2097]

Fantastic to finally see this man's works get some attention. Hugely underappreciated. So many awesome ideas! I in fact refer to "Rainbows End" in my lectures on future materials.

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks! I agree about Vinge. I imagine Rainbow’s End could be used to teach several different subjects, since it explores the potential impact of such a wide range of technologies.

[@sciencefictionreads]

Oh wow, ‘True Names’ sounds like a must read. I’ll be tracking that down. I recently found a copy of Grimms World and have several other books of his but other than starting A Fire Upon The Deep and never finishing it, I’ve never given him a fair shot. I’m looking forward to reading literally anything by him now. Looking forward to part 2 as well!

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks! I didn’t encounter True Names until years after I’d already read several cyberpunk/cyberspace stories and novels often cited as influential classics (such as Neuromancer and Snow Crash). It was only then that I realized how many of their ideas were borrowed from Vinge (although with the advantage of tech advancement that occurred in the years since Vinge wrote it).

[@phillipwhitford4064]

Awesome video can't wait to buy his books

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks! His best books are still to come in my next video in a few days.

[@sandwichdelta]

I'm glad I stumbled across this gem of a channel. So much variety in the subject matter, and quite a few authors and books I've never heard of.

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks and welcome aboard!

[@roycedeviscarra9166]

Did not realize Mr. Vinge taught at my alma mater! It was way before my time but still cool to know. Glad to see your channel has grown so quickly I remember when I watched your first video the channel had under 1k subs. Can't wait for more awesome content. 👍

[@thelibraryladder]

Thank you! It’s been really gratifying to find an audience for my videos.

[@asamorgan]

Fantastic book channel. I am learning so much. Quality information.

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks! I have many more videos like this planned.

[@ted123810]

This channel is excellent. The amount of information and soothing tone are a perfect combination.

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks! I'm so glad you enjoy the content.

[@adnanferdousleo9528]

Another great video introducing us to obscure syfy novels . Thank you sir

[@thelibraryladder]

I'm so glad you enjoyed it. Part 2 covering Vinge's later works is coming shortly.

[@murph_archer1129]

The production level is through the roof. Keep it up!

[@thelibraryladder]

Thank you!

[@Avzigoyhbasilsikos]

You’re one of the best booktubers And sci-fi suits you well as does fantasy Thank you for hard work and quality videos

[@thelibraryladder]

Thank you for your very kind words. I’m so glad you’re enjoying the channel. My reading interests span a wide range of genres, and I’ll be adding videos from other genres in the near future (while continuing to feature new SFF content as well).

[@LCD72]

Very interesting. Thank you.

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks! It’s my pleasure to talk about authors I enjoy, and I try to make it interesting.

[@xx99Username99xx]

I've only read his Zones of Thought / Fire Upon the Deep trilogy, but I really loved it, especially the way he presents the culture of the Tines. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it. I may have to go back and check out some of these earlier works.

[@thelibraryladder]

I agree that the Tines are fascinating. They’re probably the first fully realized alien species and culture that I can remember reading about in a story. Thanks for watching and sharing!

[@wileyschmitt]

Thank you so much, once again my knowledge of great authors gets fatter thanx to the Library Ladder! Very much looking forward to part 2 :)

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks! Part two is filmed. I just have to find the time to finish editing it.

[@wileyschmitt]

As someone who goofs around with video editing software I must say that you really do an excellent job in that department, and yeah it can be very time consuming at times.

[@m1k3droid]

in my opinion, the two novels and novella of The Peace War trilogy are his best work. The Ungoverned is a great treatment exploring the application of concepts of anarcho-capitalism and its weaknesses. Marooned in Real Time is a great detective novel among the remnants of those who missed out on the technological singularity.

[@thelibraryladder]

I share your appreciation of his Across Realtime sequence, although I’m a little more partial to his Zones of Thought books. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@eriktempelman2097]

Yes, MiR is supercool. I actually sent VV a compliment and thanks... and he replied soon after! Great reply by a visionary but humble writer.

[@amalathisdreaming]

I am not a big science-fiction fan but both my mom and grandmom were, so I am surprised I do not recognise his name. Will definitely look up his books, they sound wonderful.

[@thelibraryladder]

Wonderful! His very best books are the one’s I discuss in the second part of this video, coming in a few days.

[@ewangillespie452]

Thank you for this video - am looking forward to part 2. I'm a huge fan of Vinge's later novels but will now have to go back and read some of his earlier works. Vinge used to give lectures and post online, but he seems to have been inactive for a few years now so far as I can tell. Any idea what he is doing now? I hope he is doing well.

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks! I tried to find out what he’s been up to in recent years, but I wasn’t successful. His last novel from 2013 ends in a way that suggests he might have planned a possible sequel to it, but to my knowledge, he hasn’t published anything since 2013.

[@felipeignaciocarocadiaz3859]

Great video ! Love your chanel. Keep it up.

[@thelibraryladder]

Thank you! I have many more videos like this to come.

[@neilfeedthegoat9013]

Fantastic author

[@tracejefferson3169]

Thank you so much for making these videos, you share knowledge about many different authors and I look forward to them. What I do like is that you give starting points of where to begin an author's work. I've never read any by Vinge but have enjoyed many of the films that were used to help get your points across, that has made me curious 😊. You mentioned Andre Norton and I read many of her novels from my secondary school library.

[@thelibraryladder]

Thank you! I try to make my videos informative and entertaining as a way of generating interest in authors and books that often are overlooked. I plan to do a similar overview of Norton's books at some point. I binge-read her works from the time I was nine until I was about 13, so she was a formative part of my SFF introduction.

[@tracejefferson3169]

That would be fantastic 😊, will look forward to that one. Thank you!

[@buddhabillybob]

Another fantastic, informative video! My familiarity with Vinge is, sadly, limited to his famous duology.

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks! Stay tuned for my next video, when I’ll discuss Vinge’s greatest hits from 1984-2013. He has several gems in that period.

[@TheTrueRandomGamer]

Really happy I found this channel. Thomas Covenant videos were great. Do you think you'll ever go through the Dark Tower series?

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks for the suggestion! At some point I’ll probably discuss Stephen King, including The Dark Tower. He’s one of my favorite authors, and I’ve been reading him for more than 40 years, but he also already gets a lot of coverage on BookTube, and I’m trying to focus mainly on books and authors that might not be as well known to many readers.

[@fconstraints]

I love this channel

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks! I love that you love the channel and the videos I'm making. :)

[@psikeyhackr6914]

I recognized a cover but did not remember the title, Tatja Grimm's World. I vaguely remember the story but I recall it being fun. I could not have told you the author if you told me the title. I guess my memory is more visual. Thanx!

[@levoyageurdelimaginaire]

Thanks for this video ;-)

[@thelibraryladder]

My pleasure! Part 2 will be uploaded later this week.

[@levoyageurdelimaginaire]

@@thelibraryladder Nice !

[@SH-th4wy]

I'm in the middle of "A Fire Upon the Deep" right now. Fantastic book! On a different topic, I wonder if this narrator speaks like this all the time? Imagine him ordering at McDonald's like that! 🙂

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks for watching! I'm glad you're enjoying Vinge's AFUTD. And yes, I do order at McDonald's like that. It's my regular voice. :)

[@joebrooks4448]

Vinge is undoubtedly a successful writer and analytical thinker, this is not a criticism, just FYI. However, regarding the concepts of AI Robots, Solipsism, etc. many others came before. Read The Humanoids by Jack Vance 1949, Colossus by Dennis Feltham Jones 1966 [a movie a few years later], Asimov clearly predicts the "Dispossessed' created by intelligent robots in The Naked Sun -1956 as I recall. Many, many more. I watched as the "Robots" displaced millions of jobs thru the 1970s, 80s, 90s thru today. Should have been regulated, as Asimov kind of suggested and was obvious to anyone by 1980. The idea of solipsism is very briefly discussed by Heinlein in Red Planet, but many, many authors have discussed a "virtual reality" in one way or another, for decades. Fredric Brown, Damon Knight, Keith Laumer many times, C.S. Lewis in The Shoddy Lands [not tech driven, but ego].. And this film from 1973: World On A Wire - "Cybernetics engineer Fred Stiller uncovers a massive corporate conspiracy involving a virtual reality computer project." Yeah. He is code, not a person! All authors learn from what has come before. 🙂

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks for sharing! I agree with you about those earlier works. My point about Vinge, though, wasn't that he came up with the concepts of AI, robots, virtual reality, etc., but rather that he expanded upon and popularized the idea of a technological singularity in which the pace of technological change outpaces our ability to comprehend it, which has profound implications for those technologies (and for humanity). Others, such as mathematician John von Neumann, had previously contemplated such a singularity, but it was Vinge who more fully explored and developed the theory in his academic writing and then incorporated it into his fiction writing. In contrast, for example, the robots in Jack Williamson's The Humanoids/With Folded Hands certainly exert a lot of control over humanity, but they're always knowable -- their Prime Directive is something humans can comprehend. :)

[@joebrooks4448]

@@thelibraryladder Well, the vast majority of Humans certainly did not comprehend the vast unemployment results of the purpose built robots of the 1970s, 80s and 90s! I certainly did, but I had the advantage of reading VLS quantities of Golden Age SF, from 1963 forward...🙂 Have you read "The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag" , "It Could Be Anything" by Keith Laumer, or "Come And Go Mad" by Fredric Brown ? There are so many. "I, Robot" Eando Binder. These brothers created a lot, as did Metropolis. The original Twilight Zone and Outer Limits explored many of these issues, utilizing the authors works published in SF magazines!

[@KarloVukosic]

You sparked my mind to try read fire upon the deep again, i stoped it becouse i didnt like/understand his concepts and in general story about 3 headed dogs that mearge their minds in group.

[@thelibraryladder]

You might try reading a different Hugo Award winner by Vinge: A Deepness in the Sky. It’s a very loose prequel to A Fire Upon the Deep that doesn’t rely as much on the metaphysics of his Zones of Thought. (And it’s a better book in my opinion.) Thanks for sharing!

[@ljsmooth69]

I think you're using a machine to recreate the sound of narrators back then in certain aspects of content but is it an app or it's an actual piece of equipment that's allowing you to do it I'm interested in literally what you're using to do so it's just curiosity of mine I can name off a bunch of them but that'd be fruitless when I could literally just ask you you could say it. And I kind of find it somewhat similar to it but in real aspect there's a certain maybe tone or maybe execution in the in your execution of how you're saying it that is a little off it's a little query it's a little I know it kind of makes you want to listen a little bit more but because of something that would be a little bit dangerous or somewhat snickle nature even though obviously you're not doing that instead of mystical belief or non-belief in reality to non reality the darkest depths of the human unconscious psyche to the highest comfort worth and of the Sun that makes you feel cuddly inside from sci-fi to Alfred Hitchcock to Edgar Allan Poe with just a little twist like a drop off line in your tea of a Twilight zone yeah I've been called weird by everybody whether they know me or not my little children by old adults by my family I accept it but they say I'm as funny as hell not literally made people piss their pants by laughing they all say it should be a comedian but my jokes are faced in mostly truth of reality and yeah something like that but let's face it I'm a heterosexual white male when you're treated differently than that aspect. I'm not going to say we get treated racially against in that aspect because the truth of the matter is to be racist or to have someone be racist to you you actually have to be or they have to be a different race which no one on the planet is a different race than sapien and there's only been one sleeping race ever in existence so I guess that bull's their theory out of the water huh.

[@derekv81ify]

Good Morning, awesome video! I'm new to your channel so forgive me if it already exists, but could you make a video about books that have libraries and/or librarians as common setting of the story or as a destination like a lost/ hidden/ forgotten library. You could mayb name it "Libraries/Vaults of Treasure in books" I'm working on a fantasy story and would love to see examples of how this setting has been written in past books. Also books with wizard's libraries, observatories, homes, towers etc. In a video maybe named "Where Wizards used to live/studied/worked" would be amazing. Ps. I won't repost this again, thanks

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks and that’s an interesting suggestion! I’m familiar with quite a few books/series with library themes. What age group are you targeting? Fantastical libraries are a fairly frequent theme in children’s books.

[@amitabhjha5136]

what is the background track

[@thelibraryladder]

I don't have the track name at my fingertips, but I obtained it from Filmstro.

[@ljsmooth69]

Well that site and comprehension and the analogy of the goldfish is accurate but where it's wrong in the hypothesis of their theory is that it wouldn't be the goldfish it wouldn't be them it'd be us with our creation that we programmed programmed in likeness of comprehension ability and our knowledge to imitate consciousness it's not a Pandora's box that's just the problem of comprehension in the comprehension of the example isn't in the right comprehensionable category it literally changes the factor of what is being asked in nature because it's the computer would be whatever we programmed it to be it's not an actual living entity with its own actual thought like that goldfish that we try to understand we would literally understand it because we programmed it to be that way as a computer and they would understand us because we program them to be a learning computer and study us and whatever we programmed it to study thus it could study other things and get a good concept like we can but when they study us they would know us because we know us and we put us into them which quite frankly people would be extremely stupid and extremely unwise and every aspect of the meaning look at us look at our genius homo species that we call sapien people running around thinking they're different racing each other hating each other for it and doctorating people and our children into the living garbage robbing stealing raping murdering we are the worst anything that I've ever heard of of any living something that's been in existence we if anything take as a biblical access are the complete opposite of good we in aspect would shout out into the deepest dark of the abyss and here hundreds upon millions upon unlimited known voices saying we are legion and we are many all at the same time and what we would be hearing is ourselves we are the only thing that destroys everything no matter how good we tried to be tell me I'm wrong tell me when the worst things that God or by natural selection by literally random community events that we are so lucky to give us life that has ever been created ever that we know of not even the most scariest animal out there are as evil and uncompassionate and leaving nothing but death and destruction in our wake as us animals the mammals that are in likeness category and a primates of great apes because we have to share similar features as the rest of the apes that doesn't mean we evolved from them that just means we're in the category of likeness that's something people don't understand mammal category is in likeness not evolving from. No one ever claimed we evolved from it except maybe maybe Darwin but I don't think she did either I think he just said that like them we evolved from some type of protein that formed us into the mammals that we are as humans similar in like this in capabilities and literally an emotions has the baboon the chimpanzee the gorilla and the orangutan and I know that ain't spelled right but I'm completely illiterate because there's no eye in that that's how I know it's not spelled right and human in the Great super primate family in likeness listing under mammals not involving from yes I keep repeating myself because people just don't understand that they're literally says that if you look up what cat but it's a categorized as that is ignorance and literally shows how comprehensionable in our capabilities of our self-awareness we really are lacking we are I mean we base how intelligent we are on what we created to base intelligence off of I wouldn't trust too much in that we saw the creatures I think they're intelligent doing that what would be the first thing you think and rebuttal back well you created that system there that you base your intelligence off of so how accurate is it right let's apply that to ourselves cuz that's reality

[@ljsmooth69]

Because of the aspect of my mind racing I went back to watching the video and he showed a picture of Leonard nimoy Mr Spock and what popped into my head was man wouldn't have been awesome for Leonard nimoy and oh man now I'm not going to remember his name the guy that played Captain Kirk I f*** with names by the way people being able to go up into space together wouldn't that have been something Tiberius got to go lucky bastard him I'm jealous I'd love to have the opportunity to do that but nowhere even come close to have the type of money to do so only on I guess you lung must good graciousness of heart allowing me to go but I ever be able to I dream about me and my daughter being able to go up into space and looking down on the Earth and I just it'd be the most unimaginable experience you could actually experience and become reality in your subjective reality and to share the only person that means the most to me in the world my daughter and oh man I just had his name and it skipped out the guy that played Captain Kirk be there at the same time and that would be a trip I don't know I'd probably die of excitement I'll be jumping up and down like a little kid that literally 40 years 45 years old not just going off in a daydream of it I better just leave it there

[@northof-62]

Good channel, but I have a feeling you are not talking normally.

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks for the feedback! It is in fact my normal speaking voice, although at a slightly reduced volume. At normal volume, the bass in my voice creates a clipping problem with my microphone and a serious reverb/echo problem with the acoustics of the room where I film. My hope is viewers will think of it as similar to being in a public library where voices are supposed to be a little softer. :)

[@northof-62]

@@thelibraryladder Ok sorry if I offended you. Yes that's exactly the effect it has on me. Thx for your explanation.

[@thelibraryladder]

@@northof-62 No offense taken. 😀

[@ljsmooth69]

And under the goldfish thing we would have one aspect but they that the artificial intelligence wouldn't know about but they wouldn't be able to predict and that's the unpredictableness of some of us because we're predictable in a lot of ways and almost always but when it comes down to certain aspect of things there's some things we just can't predict or expect that other people would do those would be the black holes of our nature the unaccountable buying intelligent nature of unpredictability that the computers would know about but wouldn't be able to perform themselves but only mimic what they've already seen us do thus never ever being able to be spontaneously so unpredictable that holy cow I can't believe that person just did that I've known them all my life and never would have ever thought that they would I've done that but it be good or bad you know just literally pool 100% surprise mind blowing they wouldn't be capable of it that would be the only thing that might save our asses from them but that might as well just bend over and kiss each other's basketball goodbye basketball basketball yes I'm completely illiterate in an atrocious way

[@rasheedknox2140]

Rip

[@merky6004]

Peace War!

[@thelibraryladder]

Absolutely! It's coming up in my Part 2 video on Vinge, which I'll be uploading later this week. Thanks for watching!

[@billkeon880]

Trying way too hard to use your FM voice. Sounds very forced and artificial. Can’t imagine you saying..pass the salt or what time is it, in that voice. Just some constructive criticism.

[@thelibraryladder]

Thanks for the feedback, but it's actually my natural speaking voice (and has been since I was 15). I'm not forcing it at all. :)

[@General_reader]

Why are you whispering? Shush

[@thelibraryladder]

[chuckle] I wasn’t whispering. I was actually in the process of losing my voice. In Part 2 of the video (coming soon), which I filmed on the same day, my hoarseness got even worse, unfortunately. Thanks for watching.