WTT 2023 - Kurama (Mario, Roy) Vs. Sonix (Sonic) Smash Ultimate - SSBU

[@vgbootcamp]

Watch the Throne 2023 is still live! Check it out here: "www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp"

[@CipherJin]

This comment section vs the Sonix vs. Acola set. Its like stepping into another dimension!

[@superkobalt]

W Sonix Use that *tactical retreating* to your advantage.

[@Cadesworth]

Beautiful movement from Sonix, he seemed untouchable at times

[@FreakinSweet1987]

When he endlessly spams the same nearly unpunishable move a hundred times in a row, it's not that shocking.

[@Cadesworth]

@@FreakinSweet1987 nah it's not shocking, just interesting to watch his fluency with the character's movement

[@TheRobloxianBeatSabertist]

@@CadesworthAgreed. In fact, his playstyle inspired me to adapt to it and my god it was so fun. I even almost won against a really tough Joker player when I was playing the demo version with someone random during my trip with my cousin in New York. I might’ve been a little bummed out but it felt so refreshing not to get held back by that online paywall and actually put the skills to the test. Most fun I’ve ever had in Smash Ultimate.

[@emilianolozada7]

Now say it without crying ​@@FreakinSweet1987

[@FreakinSweet1987]

@@emilianolozada7 Remember kids: If you're too stupid to form a coherent counterargument, just try work the word "cry" in somewhere.

[@OCCCChillydorf]

The toxicity because of how sonix plays is insane. I mean he is here to win not be entertaining. Doing what you have to do to win is the point of competing doesn’t matter how boring it is. Y’all just cry way to much

[@Nick867]

This community is filled with people that have 0 intelligence and/or children so it makes sense

[@GracefulEloquence]

Yeah, it’s why I hated being in the smash community. Most people are as dumb as a bag of rocks and complain about everything that has ever existed in the game. The community is childish.

[@lolnah1992]

reminds me of fighting mage builds in deepwoken, very fustraiting. but yk, ill be considered a crybaby if say something about his playstyle

[@KidAL0]

As someone who doesn’t find Sonic that boring/annoying these days, this argument is old and a bit hypocritical (yes ik I’m replying months later but it’s been old for years tbh). Everyone knows he’s there to win, but most of the audience is in fact watching to be entertained. Just like Sonix is totally allowed to play lame, viewers are allowed to dislike the lame. Do you not see the irony in the claim they cry too much when you’re also down here complaining about the complaining

[@Sticker_By_NCT_127]

​@@KidAL0People take it too far though, like yes it's perfectly fine to dislike how a character or player plays the game, but Smash fans use that as an excuse to hate random people they don't know in real life for a game

[@termina2737]

Not the “why-I-oughtta” 😂

[@nicksgamingchannel]

The people who relentlessly bitch about Sonix/Sonic's playstyle are exactly the reason why Smash is usually the joke of the fighting game community. You know what I see when I see Sonix playing in sets like this? He's actually playing neutral and playing patiently. He's not just mashing aerials that have ridiculous poke to fish for an opening and get to advantage. How is Sonix "spamming" spindash to position himself and do baits/fakeouts and get in openings any different from the Roy/Mario just nairing/fairing/bairing a fuckton? Just because a ball is more boring to watch than twirling a sword around in the air 3 different ways? This is why I dropped playing competitive smash a long time ago, the game is legitimately braindead for a large majority of the cast, who all have extremely linear gameplans and actual neutral play largely doesn't matter because they can just bair OOS or nair OOS a ton with very little opportunity for counterplay. Sonic is actually one of the few characters who CAN'T do this, so he actually has to play like a proper fighting game and play a patient neutral to look for openings. But because its "boring" to watch, he gets so much hate, despite arguably being one of the more difficult to play top tiers (offline play specifically). This meta is far less aggravating to watch than 90% of the early lifespan of the game where Joker would get a stupid fsmash kill at like 60% after his install.

[@nariobrosshow]

exacgtly mario is the best in smash sonic is my second and i know sonic is supposed to be played like that cuz he is BASED OFF OFF NAIRS LOL people just cry to much

[@xdnt3434]

This is actully very well writen and makes a lot of sense

[@TheFantasticWarrior]

Imagine thinking I don't hate aerial spam because I hate spin dash spam. Mkleo camping being annoying doesn't stop sonic camping from being annoying. The entire game itself is lame to watch

[@GracefulEloquence]

Sonic isn’t top 10, but he is close. He’s way too unforgiving to be top 10.

[@vito6197]

​@@GracefulEloquence bro is top of the S tier next to Steve, how is he not even top 10?

[@faded9581]

People love to complain, but how many of those could emulate Sonix's success? Heck, who can do what Sonix can? I actually find it unironically entertaining, as someone who dabbles in Sonic, I appreciate the nuance and skill it takes to actually evade the opponent's pokes and still have an optimized punish game.

[@souppy5365]

its true that you cant deny the hard work and talent of sonix, but its absolutely fair game to feel his character is insanely good, boring to play against and boring to watch

[@aymenjbaili]

How did you decide he is boring to play against?

[@jaydenhohman2590]

​@@souppy5365Doesn't matter if it's boring to watch, the players DO NOT play for your enjoyment they play to win, nor everything is about you

[@souppy5365]

@@aymenjbaili i myself don't play competitive so i can't personally say, but it doesn't take a genius to either identify the general consensus on this character within the competitive scene or to get a feel for the matchup when watching it

[@souppy5365]

@@jaydenhohman2590 lol. i understand that the players are completely within their right to play however they must within the rules to win. but its ignorant to say that the game being boring to watch doesnt matter. the competitive integrity of the scene is what keeps the scene alive. the ability to succeed within the scene and the pleasure of spectating it is what keeps players playing and viewers viewing. if top players like sparg0 didnt exist to combat the top reps of characters stigmatized as busted or "boring", or if sonix played in a "boring" fashion every game, the games competitive scene would suffer

[@joaquinrondon8748]

I like how Sonix play but i hate when he camps

[@Corrupt23574]

All he does is camp lol

[@Psytastic_ssbu]

@@Corrupt23574He doesn’t camp all the time

[@TheRobloxianBeatSabertist]

Dude. Really? He “*C A M P S*”? 90% of the time he’s literally out there trying to capture people into his combos so he can get them out. He has to go to them physically to get them. I’m a hundred percent sure that all Fire Emblem characters at least have a parry system in there that Roy could’ve used. Not only that, you guys treat it like Sonic would usually camp in a corner and then somehow travel at Mach 23 just to get to the opponent like he’s camping. He is always dashing there and trying different movesets to reel them into the combos. Unlike many who spam up B. Seriously. You can’t just complain because that is the playstyle that feels more Sonic-like. Going fast and making moments count.

[@dragunarah8695]

This was just brutal to watch

[@Turtle9815]

Probably cause it's in 144p

[@toureyounouss7897]

Why did he pick Roy ?

[@dragunarah8695]

​@@toureyounouss7897 His Mario wasn't cutting it. He probably hoped using Roy would result differently

[@toureyounouss7897]

@@dragunarah8695 sonic can easily out speed Roy and Roy doesn't have anything to face that, mario at least has fireball and good frame data and stats so that's why I was asking, Roy was a worse choice.

[@Hunter-dl5jb]

@@toureyounouss7897 Sonix says in his MU Chart that roy actually does better in this MU

[@travisbloomfield303]

Schoolyard bully punch🤣🤣🤣. These guys are hilarious.

[@darkseidtheboss4811]

Sonix vs Axola's Steve would be such a slow match cause it would literally be the definition of 🏕️

[@Alibaba-id1cs]

That set happened already and it was a fast one shockingly lol

[@xanander4693]

Disagree, sonix 3-0 Acola last time they played in a timely manner

[@yurr1ka]

@@xanander4693to be fair acola was definitely trying to camp more compared to port priority

[@toddfoolery6380]

Playing against Sonic really makes me wonder what hot lead tastes like sometimes.

[@ligma334]

And people will come to defend this play style

[@toddfoolery6380]

​@@ligma334For Real! I feel like the people who defend this playstyle are probably Sonic players. Aint nobody who on the receiving end of this kind of playstyle think its fine or fun.

[@toddfoolery6380]

@@cds3703 Didn't realize people could cry so hard about something that wasn't even aimed at them. You act like a child who got personally attacked. At what point did I name drop you or Sonix? (Until now) But I guess you get a white knight pass for attacking me personally for having an opinion that you didn't like. Your right about one thing though. I didn't have to watch this game. But I watched it anyway because I like to watch the mario. And maybe I want to know if on a pro level, there is counterplay against sonic in this matchup. But I was clearly mistaken. No counterplay here. And no mario gameplay available in this matchup. I guess I'm not to watch something that has any association with the Sonic then? Regardless of reason? You gave a big speech as to why sonic players play that way. As if your leading some kind of debate to justification the character. But no one forced you to play that character just as no one forced me to watch that video. We chose to do so for ourselves. Whatever the reasons may be. My downside was as I said in my comment. It sucked to watch (paraphrasing). Your downside is that no one who doesn't play your character likes your character. Last I checked, I didn't have to justify such things to random salt shakers who peruse the comment section for anyone with a negative view on a character you so desperately want to be loved. So lets recap. I watched the video for my own god damn reason. Not needing your fucking permission for that. I didn't like what I saw. I reflected that in the comment section because I'm passionate about the game and my thoughts on the character. Again, I'll comment about my own personal feelings on a fictional character in a video game however I damn well please. You saw my comment. Got personally butt hurt that I don't like your character. And thought it'd make sense to ACTUALLY personally attack me?! How about I tell him that he's got no brain cells and that he's a shit person for maybe probably definitely talking about me specifically and that Sonix guy specifically. Definitely couldn't be the character that he hates. It's definitely the person he's hating on. I'm certainly real intuitive on what other people should be doing when it comes to the things I like. (Paraphrasing) Guess what. Now that you gone and made it about you. It IS about YOU. Now I KNOW that its not JUST Sonic (the character) that can be toxic AF. There some little twats like you floating around in the comment sections too. Just itching to start some shit with anyone who doesn't just love Sonic to bits.

[@josuemolina6124]

@@toddfoolery6380 I swear bro, that guy attacked you by nothing, we can all say what we feel without getting anybody else targeted, so glad sparg0at rapped Sonic though

[@aymenjbaili]

​​@@josuemolina6124is watching sonix sets and commentating about them is your life goal

[@PyroBanddiitt]

fun fact, ganon and falcons down b are great counters for sonics spindash

[@finngeometry7570]

Sure, in a vacuum. In practice though they’re not really that great.

[@buldrux217]

imagine playing the fastest character but your games are the slow

[@mysticsquirtle5109]

Imagine not understanding a characters tools and acting like the problem isn’t the community

[@Vampire102]

@@mysticsquirtle5109 Imagine running away for the majority of the game

[@arelishidden]

​@@Vampire102 Imagine hating on a guy who wants to win

[@Diego-tp3mm]

Imagine play smash

[@ProfessionalillegalMexicanwall]

Imagine

[@joeyC34ee]

Love Sonix discipline. He’s so methodical

[@xliteisaiahhehe]

I really don’t care about what other player thinks about sonix. I mean he’s still good with other characters, he just plays Sonic the most really.

[@jennyqin3298]

Depends on what you consider "good". Sonix is definitely very good with other characters compared to the average tournament goer, but his ass is not making it far without sonic. I believe he lost to hungrybox using his secondaries once. Maybe if he put the time in from sonic to other characters, he could get some wins, but I just can't see him using anybody else

[@numb4102]

I support sonix but my god they gotta change up sonic in the next game cuz jeez even i was struggling to watch this lmao

[@WarmongerMa1n]

Well whatdya know? Sega v Nintendo all over again.

[@AbeMakesGames]

As a sonic main, I HATE to see the character I main be used for camping, he’s already fast, and has so good air attacks. And his forward smash is good, so why just camp?

[@supersaltshakers2140]

Part of being fast is that it just doesn't have to be about offense. Being fast makes for a great defensive tool also. That and Sonic also kinda struggles to land actual kills sometimes so there's many times where camping or playing super patient is better than just going in to pressure and risking your stock since he's also light.

[@AbeMakesGames]

@@supersaltshakers2140 true tho. I usually book it and dodge, I only edge guard when I have too. I’m a good air guy but I HATE spammers like Lucas

[@mentlegen3887]

​@@AbeMakesGames aggressive Sonics are SO fun to play against. Almost feels like a volatile boss battle or minigame against the blue blur. Unfortunately, a lot of the top tier characters at the moment when played incredibly optimally are stale to fight and watch because of their design. Sonix has played some interesting games before but I also dont like to see these highly skilled top players play like this. Another reason why it sucks that smash ult got the Nintendo online treatment with discontinued balance patches

[@AbeMakesGames]

@@mentlegen3887 well that’s me for ya

[@Fluminox-]

Lore accurate too lmao

[@RobMattsson]

This character is bad for the game as a spectator sport. Ultimate has never been this boring or frustrating to watch lmao

[@josuemolina6124]

I completely agree

[@libenhagos9335]

Sonic, Steve, GnW, and Min Min have turned top level smash into a snooze fest.

[@rnbgeen7636]

Absolutly, tbh Sonix Plays very good and precise. But man its so fckn boring to watch.

[@rnbgeen7636]

​@@libenhagos9335G&W isnt that Bad, Hes cool to watch. Only Charakters Like Steve and Sonic, that forces you to Come, because they only need to Camp to win, are the Problem imo

[@megaszx08]

It isn't worse than Steve. I'll take Sonic any day of the week over going in a corner, mining, waiting for other character to approach and use mine cart.

[@gdashfan13gd30]

"Nintendo, Sega Genesis, back in the days we measured greatness in bits. Sonic The Hedgehog, Super Mario, only one can be the king of old school console"🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣🔥 🔥 💯

[@FreakinSweet1987]

There's nothing more fun than watching Sonic spin dash back and forth for almost 20 minutes straight. Fucking riveting gameplay.

[@WEBTEAM1000]

Would you rather Sonix do a little dance while playing as well, since your chief concern seems to be how entertaining he is? He won lol. That's all that matters.

[@FreakinSweet1987]

@@WEBTEAM1000 No, that's not all that matters. There's a certain level of respect that's always expected between players to not just spam moves or act like an asshole. If Kurama ran away the entire time and teabagged every time he knocked Sonix away just to get in his head, would you still be saying "all that matters is he won"? Or would you use common sense and call him out for the unsportsmanlike bullshit? And yes, there is a correct answer to that question and we both know what it is.

[@WEBTEAM1000]

@@FreakinSweet1987 it's spamming if it's punishable and easy to counter. You calling it spamming is doing a disservice to his skill. Could you spam spin dash and be even half as good as him?

[@FreakinSweet1987]

@@WEBTEAM1000 Asking if someone else could match another player's skill is like criticizing a movie and getting, "let's see you make a better one!" as a response. It's a weak strawman argument. I'm not saying the guy isn't a good player or his movement is bad. I'm saying Sonic is a *much* better character than what he's doing with him. Relying on Spin Dash this much does a disservice to the character's actual abilities, not his skill. Spam is spam, it has nothing to do with how punishable a move is. If you're doing that same movie over and over, that's spamming. I've seen people struggle getting in on Samus players with great movement, all because they run away and projectile the entire match. Is that not spam because they're unable to be punished? I mean, it works, right?

[@WEBTEAM1000]

@@FreakinSweet1987 I bought SSBU on May this year. Started binging it with my friends, and I really don't have much to say about the more technical aspects of things. But I know that when I spam something, my friends adapt, take advantage and punish me for it. And I find this to be vibrant gameplay. I'm not sure what a good high-level Sonic does. I currently main sonic because of Sonix footages tbh XD so I don't have a leg to stand on, but still. If Sonix was truly so unskilled, then someone would eventually punish him for his cheap tactics. And if cheap tactics are truly so viable, then isn't that an issue about the game itself? Idk. All I think is, Sonix is playing well, even if it is somewhat repetetive. I still find nuance in a lot of his moves, and I was genuinely intrigued by this video.

[@ijlibg7061]

Why so many are hating bro just wanted to win

[@kenspeedway1572]

sega does what nintendon't!

[@crissmarin]

Sonic Superstars...

[@nariobrosshow]

"sega does what nintendon't!" make games that get hated on true

[@YamsayinGB]

Let’s go sonix!!!

[@josuemolina6124]

🏳‍🌈

[@JemsonFF]

​@@josuemolina6124Gonna cry?

[@josuemolina6124]

@@JemsonFF nah dude, that’s for homosexuals

[@noelvasquezperalta2167]

​@@josuemolina6124sonic is the best brother

[@travisbloomfield303]

@@josuemolina6124he’s no faggo

[@俺は誰でもない]

filmed with a potato?

[@dragunarah8695]

Give it time

[@addielzamora4816]

Sega even was better than Nintendo😔

[@squidyboi1193]

Not even close Nintendo destroyed them so hard they quit making consoles

[@addielzamora4816]

@@squidyboi1193 bro I think You didn`t understand 😐

[@nariobrosshow]

ima a mario main ngl i main mario and sonic mostly mario his combos are factually better i mean every smash player says it but sonic combos are satisfying lol but that's my opinion@@addielzamora4816

[@saulantoniocarrillocabrera4363]

Que frustrante ha de ser jugar contra Sonix, espero que por el bien del gaming no gane este torneo

[@albertpena4401]

a tu casa a Llorar

[@thenelflii5243]

Vete a llorar sonix hijo eso se llama aprovechar las herramientas del personaje que brinda que arias tú ?

[@luiscamano5836]

​@@albertpena4401Ganó el deporte dejen de defender conductas antideportiva como lo que hizo en el último match contra Spargo. Patetico

[@albertpena4401]

@@luiscamano5836 Como es Antideportiva si cada uno cumple con las reglas de los torneos? lo que seria para ti (Antideportivo) seria el estilo de juego que no es divertido de ver, Cada personaje tiene sus estrategias, pero como no estas listo para esta conversación, te dejo seguir con ese pensamiento Inmaduro.

[@albertpena4401]

Y felicidades por Sparg0, bien merecido.

[@methfield]

Bro was locked in and tweaking 😂

[@user-benian_sonic]

Sonixかっけえ

[@danpower3170]

its a pain in the eyes seeing sonic "fighting"

[@Corrupt23574]

Actually sad for sonix to just camp out players and avoid fighting in a fighting game. Such a boring play style that soon no one is gonna wanna watch/support. They really need to find a way to prevent this terrible gameplay from happening.

[@rizvan1632]

The other player needs to learn the MU and rush him down like Light or Sparg0. Pretty simple solution but everyone trying to camp back and then lose in 7 minutes instead of in 2-3

[@Cadesworth]

i enjoyed watching it :3

[@GracefulEloquence]

The theory of the MU isn’t that complicated, it’s just people don’t want to learn the MU and just have their wins spoonfed to them.

[@ReiniBlue]

Let's go Sonix the goat!!!

[@taeyangkimrivera3216]

yeah camping guy the goat

[@Fiyurred]

Literally dozed off watching this

[@eddyperez865]

Qué manera tan asquerosa y aburrida de jugar de Sonix, ojalá que su mamá ya no le de permiso para ir a ningún torneo y si llega a ir que en todas las finales se tope con Spargo, a fin de cuentas ya se sabe cual será el resultado.

[@GracefulEloquence]

It looks like there are a bunch of marks in here who couldn’t win a tournament against a bunch of quadriplegics who couldn’t touch their controllers.

[@bobert555555]

If someone is actively not engaging in a fight…in a fighting game, he shouldn’t be allowed to compete. It’s so boring, so scummy, it actually prevents a healthy competitive scene and prevents people from wanting to watch these events.

[@Paradox_Of_Crota]

It's called playing smart.

[@spreadwuvokay]

​@@Paradox_Of_Crotayou're both not wrong

[@Xorevre]

people said this exact thing about hbox during melee years ago. its called playing smart. if it really makes you that angry, hate the character, not the player.

[@xanander4693]

What’s unhealthy is all your whining 🤣🤣🤣

[@cds3703]

Are you an ipad kid? Does your brain always need constant stimulation?

[@sagemode6]

sonic was just camping for 70%

[@Xxblade17]

Wonix on top

[@rosannamendez6813]

Bueno hablar español

[@devynharris4218]

Wack

[@JuanpabloMartell-l5f]

Zzzzzzonic

[@samuelmcclamrock162]

This was so lame bro

[@alexissarabia2951]

Zzzzzz

[@juarezlealalanmauricio559]

Boooring

[@luismise5780]

Sonic Baneo