Vibration Damping at Ultra High Speed (HULA and more on 247zero)

[@247printing]

Get HULA and Filament at VOXEL: bit.ly/247VOXEL ThruTheFrame: makerworld.com/en/@thrutheframe

[@Basement_CNC]

My guess (and experience kinda prooves that) is not to stop the WHOLE printer from moving, but to stop the printhead moving differently from the base... So fixing the base of the printer often makes things worse....I think you should get pcb-way to make you a solid 15mm plate instead of the extrusions wich the y rails are mounted to...and maybe add belt-tension (or bigger belts altogether)

[@zihotki]

6dB is not small. The dB scale is logarithmic. Getting reduction in 10dB is insane.

[@beauslim]

Isn't it logarithmic because human perception of sound is also essentially logarithmic? So if we are talking about how noisy something is, 6dB is noticeable but not huge.

[@fullsendmarinedarwin7244]

in audio 3dB is double the power, and 10dB is perceived twice as loud

[@すどにむ]

@@beauslim i think it's also because you're measuring something in R^2 or R^3 using a linear scale or something along

[@lausi772]

I actually like the way your little beast is jumping around 😅

[@turtel5649]

😂😂😂

[@brozu93]

yeah, put on your back for body massage

[@SergeiSugaroverdoseShuykov]

Hula isn't dampening solution, it's pretty much an another example of already widely used vibration isolation pads, which used to decouple floor and machine vibration, not to dampen anything. In high tolerance machines vibrations are dampened by the frame itself scaling by increasing rigidity and material amount.

[@Reds3DPrinting]

I thought I was the only one to combine devil design and the hula feet together for ultimate stability!

[@-n3rv1o43]

what about placing 3d printer on the concrete plate with soft corner peaces as CNC Kitchen showed?

[@julianposch1307]

What about bolting it to the ground?

[@-n3rv1o43]

@ probably wont work well, but guess it worth trying

[@vincenzoferrara4223]

One of the simplest ways to decrease vibrations is to increase the weight of the structure. You could try pouring sand into all the metal profiles, even screwing some cement blocks under the printer. PS:Sorry for the English I used Google Translate

[@gregoryp203]

the analog for resonance is a weight with a spring. the hula has a spring as the TPU part. It adds another resonance to the system. Depending on the frequency and how the it can increase the vibration or decrease it. I would suggest adding some silicon oil that is used in RC car shocks to the thrust bearing. It comes in various viscosities for tunning.

[@p_serdiuk]

Suggestion -- such data is begging to be rendered in bar graphs as it can be difficult to read pure numbers at a glance.

[@Athiril]

What if you add another axis that moves a counter weight to balance the vibrations out? You could use the existing XY output still in theory.

[@plixplux]

In 1992, Williams started using active dampening in their F1 cars. Part of this is why they dominated the season and also why the FIA banned it (along with a lot of other driver aids that Williams was using) in 1994. But luckily no such rules apply here! Maybe this could be the next step? Something along these lines: 1. Securing the printer to a slab of concrete with enough mass for it to be completely immobile 2. Somehow setting up motors to counter vibrations in X Y and Z axis 3. Integrating the motor control with a slicer in order to predict vibration compensation I mean, there are definitely some challenges to be mapped out and overcome here, but... just think of being able to hold the speedboat record! You could crown yourself king of the nerds! =))) Seriously though, thanks for a very interesting vid, as always!

[@SaHaRaSquad]

If I understand you correctly this is already a feature in most modern printers and called input shaping, where motor movements are modified in real time based on the resonance frequency. The vibrations you see in the video are already with those compensations active.

[@plixplux]

​@@SaHaRaSquad Almost - input shaping uses an accelerometer to identify at which speeds the standing waves (ie where the vibration is the most), and then adjusts the speeds when printing so as to not trigger these. My proposal is to instead have motors that work 180 phase shifted to these vibration frequencies, which - hopefully =) - would cancel them out. In a perfect world this would mean that there would be no slowdown at these frequencies. But yeah - the input shaping part of knowing which frequencies that need to be accounted for is (of course) crucial! This is a thing used in audio engineering for transfering the audio signal through cables with what's called a balanced connection iirc. You got three poles: one with the signal, one with the signal but 180 degree phase shifted, and ground. When the signal is terminated, the second pole is phaseshifted back, which means that any electrical interference along the way gets completely cancelled out, with the extra bonus of the signal being boosted as well. I studied audio engineering... but I definitely didn't study mechanical engineering he he. So while I do think that the idea carries some merit, I have absolutely 0% on my feet on whether or not it is actually feasible.

[@SaHaRaSquad]

@@plixplux Seems I misunderstood/overestimated input shaping a bit. Thanks for the clarification!

[@plixplux]

Just happy to share the psyche for this 😁 Peace!

[@Anziilife]

Have you considered rigid-mounting the frame? A fully mounted in Z rear beams, and lower Y and X beams would make sure the general frame would stop resonating.

[@naidta9802]

I was waiting for your next video! 🎉

[@Scynide]

I made some of these for my K1 and they are an improvement over the stock feet. It is a small improvement, but there is definitely less ghosting. The best results I got were recalibrating input shaper after installing them. Bought the hardware kit that includes the TPU parts from Voxel and printed the rest myself.

[@SirHackaL0t.]

This looks great. My A1 Mini used to move around the table until I put it on a silicone mat. Now it doesn’t wander off unattended.

[@simoneiorio9703]

In my opinion, vibration on the print model are mostly relative at the structural rigidity of the system (not only frame, but also motor force and belts, in high stress machines), so acting on dampening in that way, can help a lot for all the external factors, but a little in the print, at the cost that the dynamics introduced by the dampening systems increases the complexity of the system, but fortunately that complexity interfere only little in the active printer system. But if I could have only a chose between fix all the walls of the printer to a concrete home (very heavy, obviously), and act on the power of the motors and the strength of the belts, to improve the dynamic part rigidity (so acting on the weight, too), or put an external dampening system, my choice will be the first. Congratulation for that lille monster, you created!

[@mathiaschaves7604]

In your test setup aren't you measuring the vibrations that escapes the printer and are transmited to the table and air? If thats the case, these vibrations could be getting worst on the printer itself, don't they? I am starting to get deeper into this rabit role and i am designing a tuned mass damper to see if that can be a solution for 3d printers.

[@m.t-thoughts8919]

I think at one point its the belt system which is the issue. With flat bet linear motors, I think it may be better. Also at such high speeds, I would recommend a case 😅

[@3DWolfEngineering]

awesome!, might finally want to give them a go too ...

[@CamdenWallraff]

You could also try mounting the whole rig to the damper feet in-plane with the print head so they capture more x-y movement, as right now it's more like a lever arm

[@robertvangstad2740]

What if the bed and head separated? Two different frames. Amazing work!

[@HyviaVideoitaMansenlale]

Next just mount the printer to the wall or floor ze gainz.

[@free_spirit1]

This is of course blasphemy but personally I'd have multiple counterweights that go in the opposite direction of the tool and gantry. Not straightforward to do on a coreXY and it means doubling the required stepper power, but it's the ultimate way. You could probably even balance a coin on it at that point.

[@75keg75]

Can you stack them so you have dampers that target different frequencies?

[@3d1e00]

Wonder if it creeps over time or otherwise changes its behaviour?

[@teewithmarie694]

the sound is insane holy it m,ade me realise what stresses r holy is the band used for movment being elastic a bottleneck for acuracy?

[@ventusprime]

it was informative video iam on not the speed side these days, I am on the silent front.

[@killzonearmed]

Doesnt it need a counter weight for dampening the vibrations too?

[@IllSkillz]

what if you build 4 exactly the same printers on a single frame and in mirror arrangement. will they cancel each other vibrations completely?

[@rodsawhite]

Wow I love your content and I love the informative breakdown - my K3 with full alu sides was over 20kg - but man could you get the acceleration up there :)

[@BUBBLE4878]

maybe if you had it suspended by 4 springs that might help i'm interested on how it would work considering how many vibrations your printer has.

[@nlkatz]

It looks to me like neither of the feet are giving a significant amount of damping, or for sure there would be bigger differences in the results. An interesting experiment would be placing the printer on two smooth sheets, one attached to the printer and one attached to the table, with different weights of oil or grease between them to provide viscous damping. Or actual cylindrical dampers with adjustable orifice size, measured at different settings to determine the optimum damping. And of course checks on print quality afterwards to see if it's even worthwhile doing. In order for that to be the case, the damping would have to reduce the ringing of the axis motions relative to the print bed, not just the motions of the frame itself.

[@fanofentropy2280]

That is an impressive little beast. What jerk settings are you running at those acceleration speeds?

[@247printing]

For SCV it's 50mm/s

[@dayumcraig7657]

will any version work with larger and heavier printers? e.g. Voron or Ratrig 500 ?

[@ragnarock353]

Wie würde der Test verlaufen wenn die extra Gewichte nicht starr am Gehäuse verschraubt werden? Wenn die Gewichte wie ein Schwingungstilger/ Resonanzkompensator mit einer vertikalen Hulaversion verbaut sind. Hochhäuser in Erdbebengebieten beispielsweise der Taipei 101 wurde ebenso mit einem Tilgerpendel ausgestattet. So könnten nochmal Gehäuseresonanzen gedämpft werden. Vielleicht ein Anreiz für ein nächstes Video.

[@andyspoo2]

There is a reason why washing machines contain concrete weights - same concept as the weights on this insane printer.

[@grfrog]

Nathan Builds Robots has a recent video on a counter weight motor that you might find interesting.

[@alessaaaaaandro]

4:38 what phone model is that?

[@247printing]

It's the Red Magic 9 Pro from last video on V-Core 4 500.

[@whynotbuildit]

I would drill it to the desk with hot glue erasers in between

[@extrutim]

I don't think there is a printer that can put these feet to an even more extreme test. 😂

[@Roetz40]

We'll see 😂

[@lancereyesromero7811]

Ratrig Vcore 4 500

[@DiomedesDominguez]

Nothing beats four good quality squash balls, still better than the HULA.

[@ArchDeusAirsoftNC]

Does anyone know if any of the feet are compatible with a Qidi X-Max 3

[@vladimirjar3800]

Is there a kit for that printer?

[@voxelpla]

You can purchase the hardware kit and print the small adapter

[@cybernetix86]

I think you would need some sort of counterweight system to avoid vibration. Not sure how it could be done but a gantry on top of the printer but moving in a mirror way could do the trick

[@maxgadd]

i think for best implementation you would need to do this, but maybe not necessary

[@ronniechowdhury3082]

Hmm possibly a second set of motors wired in reverse just moving a counterweight?

[@maxgadd]

@@ronniechowdhury3082 yes

[@Amybnuy]

is there files for this? I Live in canada and don't want to pay 25$ shipping :\

[@feilko2170]

Actually you should just clamp it to the table or heavy mount. The way the machine is swinging on the X & Y can lead to artifacts on the print surfaces.

[@zibingotaeam3716]

Why not use a shoggy sandwich? PC waterpumps have been cooled that way for decades now. You can buy all the components in most hardware stores and they are ridiculously effective at decoupling vibrations from the pump to the frame. If you're lazy, alphacool sells kits.

[@mahendradhungel8011]

Lets go first! Hi 24/7

[@Mattvbro]

Why is the first 4 min an ad?

[@artemyevtushenko8722]

scientific method means also attaching weights to no hula feet tho

[@HelgeKeck]

thats a moving video

[@p_serdiuk]

Casio F-91W, based. :D

[@すどにむ]

bruh this system needs balanced counterweight mechanism

[@MumrikDK]

I really would have thought you just bolted it directly to a heavy table.

[@overcaffeinatedengineering]

Um, vibration isolation is NOT vibration reduction. The way to make the printer vibrate less is to *dissipate* the energy into its environment, not to reflect the energy back into the printer. The best way to absorb the energy would be to maximize how loud the table is when it vibrates, not minimize it.

[@VolkanTaninmis]

Washing machine damper feets= 4 pack for 5 dolars. Gtfo

[@skmgeek]

man i sure do hate when my washing machine vibrates at high frequency

[@spotless1337]

If i wouldnt be so lazy i would have printed them arleady and slaped on my 70kg K3 to test.

[@Reds3DPrinting]

Ive never been so early before! :)

[@foxio2778]

add a mass damper

[@bisti1900]

I don't understand why does he measure vibration on the table and not on the machine? This where it should really be useful. The printer can actually vibrate more but transmit less to the table. If you measure the vibration on the table you actually measure how well they isolate the printer from the table and for this you use vibration isolators not dampeners. Sure, they can both have an influence on each of the uses but not necessarily. If you want the printer not to transmit the vibration to the table you could suspend it from the ceiling or from a large console on the wall.

[@meocats]

this has no effect on the shaper profile so its not damping anything

"Dishes broken" 🤣🤣

[@socar-pl]

pity... parts and filament is in great price but shipping to europe cost hand and leg.

[@onurcetinkaya4873]

I just screwed my printer to the wall. ( at the same plane where the movement is happening.)

[@vaclavlukovic4200]

Hi i started building 247 zero b2 and tried my own hotend solution, its sailfish hotend with volcano nozzle, it's able to extrude around 33 mm³/s aurapol pla at 220°C with no cht nozzle, it needs two bambu heaters and normal vo toolhead not cuszomized, with fan espc air direction parts weight's only 75g and it's cheaper than your fantastic design.

[@Duraltia]

What about bolting it to the Wall? 🤔 Can't add any more mass to the Frame than making it part of the Building 🤣 Or alternatively *_sandwiching_* it between two Concrete Slab Pavers sitting atop the Dampers 🤨That being said... What about printing Upside Down thus having the Moving Mass at the bottom on a printer resulting in less leverage over the frame to be thrown around?

[@chiboreache]

just make the frame out of concrete 😉

[@AndTecks]

you should have kept it as is and just put a dog leash on it

[@3nreek4y]

put it in a bucket of sand

[@lynxxlynxx]

Are you printer guys all the same guy with the same voice and same german accent? 🤔

[@247printing]

Yes, coming from the same Chinese manufacturer

[@3nreek4y]

put it in a bucket of sand