Victron vs. Growatt solar MPPT charge controller efficiency test

We all know Victron makes very efficient equipment, but how much more efficient is it compared with the Growatt? Let's find out.
Victron vs. Growatt solar MPPT charge controller efficiency test
I'm testing the Growatt SPF 5000ES inverter which has a built-in charge controller. The Victron is model 250/100. The Growatt inverter is an all-in-one unit with both a charge controller and inverter. These all-in-one units really do well when you use the power as it's being created.
I'm taking all measurements using my multi-meter so the results will be consistent between the two products.
Note: The Victron MPPT charge controller has a maximum input of 250V and the Growatt MPPT charge controller has a maximum input of 450V. This means you can (usually) save money with the higher voltage by not needing a combiner box and circuit breakers.
Affiliate Links (Signature Solar):
Growatt Inverters, 5000ES: signaturesolar.com/growatt-48...
EG4-LifePower4 48V 100Ah Battery: signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepo...
EG4 LiFePO4 5120Wh with display: signaturesolar.com/eg4-ll-lit...
Circuit Breaker: signaturesolar.com/nadar-dc-c...
Amazon Affiliate Links:
Victron Charge Controller: amzn.to/3IIDiY9
Multi-meter (exact model in video is no longer available: amzn.to/3aF1u0X
Videos:
Building powerwall with 1 inverter: • Building a Solar Gener...
First Battery Review: • Cheapest 48 volt LiFeP...
Building Battery Bank over 30 kWh: • Fastest Large Scale Ba...
Growatt 5000ES inverter with auto transformer: • Full Load Test and Mak...
Disclaimer:
My videos are in no way intended to be instructional "how-to" lessons. I am simply documenting my project for informational purposes. Property damage, personal injury, or death may result, even when following manufacturer's instructions. I cannot be held liable for such damage or injury. It is YOUR OBLIGATION to ensure that you are complying with any local and federal laws as well as code and permit requirements.
David Poz, LLC

[@Ghergyjubles]

Should be able to run your whole setup off the epic beard.

[@BecomingOffgrid]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@fisherus]

I haven't seen one that good since I first saw "Wolfman Jack!"

[@diederickr]

How's the 🍄 on top. That adds a few kw at least

[@mateensarwar8247]

@@diederickr L

[@VinceBadovinatz88]

@@fisherus yep great beard

[@fredflintstone1428]

That's a great test to do David and well worth knowing that the efficient of the all-in-one units increases when you invert as the solar is coming in. Many thanks.

[@fisherus]

David, I still can't get adjusted to your new look but, I like it. I always use my Sol-Ark 12K system and my welder, large compressor and other 220V tools and equipment during high sun hours. I put in a 2500gal water storage tank and hooked up my deep well pump to the excessive load capability of my Sol-Ark 12K so I can take advantage of all of the extra power that I am getting from my solar panels. I also put a timer on another pump that I have hooked up to my sprinkler system that will water my lawn and garden the same way. All it has really taken is a little rescheduling of the time you do things to make for an efficient off-grid lifestyle.

[@ctrlaltdebug]

Solar Jesus

[@TheMultiDouche]

It’s been a while since I popped by the channel and the bears is immense!

[@loucinci3922]

Nicely do, as always. The numbers kinda whizzed over my head but the numbers make sense. I don't have a solar system so I lean on your expertise and knowledge. Thanks for sharing

[@VinceBadovinatz88]

They whized past me to🤣 I really appreciate his videos very helpful

[@FreekHoekstra]

Oh wow. I had not seen your channel in a while, and you’ve gone full abraham! Kinda digging the look!

[@wallywood49]

And there's an extra benefit with doing it in the day. The electricity you use in the daytime can be replaced in the daytime, leaving your batteries full when the sun goes down. Using the batteries at night leaves your batteries partly drained with no way to fill them back up till the next day when the sun rises. This can be bad if something comes up and you need that extra power at night.

[@JayCGypsy]

That's exactly the same between an integrated system and separate charger/inverter combo.

[@wasifsyed1085]

Great video David, Higher voltage probably has to do some with efficiency too. I almost did not recognize you with your new hair style

[@jdfloats]

i think it was not him lol.

[@KeithvanDijk]

We're right in the middle of winter here in Australia, short days, long nights. One of the most important uses for me is boosting the Solar hot water system, I've got a timer switch set for 10.00 am to 3.00 pm so that, at what is usually peak production time, input is utilized now, rather than depleting the battery banks later on. Very much enjoying your videos David, lots of good old common sense there.

[@michaeljoncour4903]

we have a heap of second hand $30 dollar solar panels connected directly to our hot water tanks,ss beer barrels, one under sink in kitchen, half a cup before very hot water comes out, i used a ball valve with long handle to get instant hot water from the shower, i really appreciated that when i did it. we turn our fridge off around 4.30 every day, move milk and meat into freezer section and move 4 litres of ice from freezer section into fridge, we don't really need to do this but i thought why take power from battery if i don't need to.

[@rhiantaylor3446]

Just to note that PV panels are maybe 22% efficient at capturing sun energy whereas direct solar to hot water can apparently convert up to 90% of incident sunlight into hot water so you may want to consider a few panels to convert direct to hot water - I think David has done this. Also depends how much "roof area" you have available and the comparable cost of the two types of panel and energy storage (batteries vs. insulated hot water tank).

[@alexjohnward]

@@michaeljoncour4903 what thermostat setup?

[@83kaszas]

this is what we did in romania now,we just built a growwatt system for my buddy whit 5400 watts of solar installed,and only a 5 kilowatt batery,becouse we dnt have more money.Its lifepo4 so at least it endures cicling.But the 100 amp batery can suply the 5k growwatt whitout the bms cutting out on us also,and so we put a timer on the hot warer boiler they use for shower and domestic warm water.They use that mostly during the day time,and also moved showering to day time as well:)) they got used to it quickly,and than the bateries suply nough power during the whole evening/night for the 26 watt TV,a laptop,and a fridge mostly...if it is still not enough,these inverters are so good,we can program it to cuople back on grid power if the battery goes to 20%.It works fine and they pay almost nothing for electricity since the system is in place!

[@ACEBTRAVEL-AZ-ADVANTUR]

Wow it been awhile since I watch your video 👍

[@ronbridegroom8428]

Good analysis. Thanks for doing this

[@coachwilson5967]

Holy crap David. No shave year? That thing is a beast!!! So long to the cool solar nerd next door. Hello retired Spec Ops Door kicker.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

No special ops for me. LOL. I was just support. Army mechanic. But I'm out now and hiked some mountains this spring.

[@coachwilson5967]

@@DavidPozEnergy man the beard is epic. It would take me over a year to grow that. I'm off grid too near Virginia City Nevada. 14.4kw in panels on 4 ground mount poles, 2 x 8 kw outback inverters & 32 kw Lipo batteries (9 of em). Love your channel

[@stephensauder8954]

@@DavidPozEnergy Keep growing your beard out longer. It looks amazing!

[@BradCagle]

I have a growatt sc4880 stand alone MPPT, I've measured it around 95% efficient, so your numbers are inline with what I'm seeing. The Victron is impressive though.

[@hoocli]

I know you weren't having the greatest luck with the solarc but I picked up a 15K super excited to turn it on and test it out

[@azpcox]

I wish I could just pick up an $8k inverter to “test” it out. ;). I am excited for you as it’s pretty much the gold standard in my book with all of its extremely useful capabilities.

[@hoocli]

@@azpcox from my looking and my lack of space it definitely fit the bill. Still waiting for full hookup but within a week should have it going hopefully

[@tonymora526]

Gracias David

[@P_RO_]

Good to see the math. These aren't the cheapest solution nor is electrical efficiency the only consideration, but the best way to achieve overall efficiency is reducing unnecessary losses where possible, which makes electrical efficiency one of the most important aspects.

[@hometheatre1706]

Nice! Thanks David 👍🏻🙂

[@daveyboy8907]

Nice set up..I am running victron but this will be interesting.

[@retrozmachine1189]

More or less what I expected. What Victron says in the spec sheet is seen in real world experience. Obviously this is a fairly basic efficiency test, no comparison across different voltage points etc, and that's fair enough all things considered. One thing that I will comment on though is the Victron chargers have an extremely good MPPT algo and will reassess the situation with clouding in a sensible way. On the other hand the Growatt and ilk are known for having slightly crook MPPT algo that can do odd things with some people reporting complete cessation of solar for short intervals etc. Firmware updates in the Growatt et al can address this to some degree.

[@VinceBadovinatz88]

What does crook mean

[@unionse7en]

Also: Batteries last longer when one uses the solar directly/immediately.

[@VinceBadovinatz88]

That sounds logical because it's not draining the batteries

[@BrianLeeWho]

I saw this video in my feed and for a minute thought, "Who's this guy doing solar videos?" Then I realized it's David Poz with his new look. ;)

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Yep. A few months backpacking will do that.

[@FaceTubeU]

You look like a young Bob Villa. You could call your channel now This Offgrid House.

[@DeekJohnson]

Very good point!!! To bad Growatt marketing department hasn’t figured this out yet.

[@anotherfellasaiditsnunya]

So far i like what you've produced - energy! Just wondering if you have a "like for like" comparison because the growatt is an inverter charger whereas the victron "comparison" is a solar charger. Lets compare apples with apples man.

[@henrykjakubowski5180]

Perfect test.

[@wayne8113]

Thanks David

[@pds4184]

David, when you were contemplating using a high power single phase inverter and a big autotransformer, how did your testing turn out. I wanted to do something similar. The single phase unit for Europe have much better Mppt dc input voltage, actually name benefits, if u think about it. What were the real issues with a big 230v inverter and a aoutotransformer? Thanks David

[@dennisbrok9335]

Ps don’t use the dead cat if you’re indoors then you will be more crisp on the audio and you can lower the gain to be rid of the white noise

[@scottedwards5057]

thanks for this video, very helpful

[@dennisbrok9335]

Damn man Nice beard I wish mine was this full thanks for the vids

[@EddieSiembra]

Thanks for the test! I think that gap would grow on a cloudy day since I suspect the Victron can track faster than the growatt. It’s nice that you can use the power straight to the load from the Growatt though.

[@telocity]

If your running most of your off grid devices using 48v so you don't need the inverter than the charge controller would be the winner right?

[@HansKeesom]

to point out the obvious ;-) ..... connect a good inverter to the battery, a victron one, they are between 92 and 94 %. Electricity coming from solar will go into inverter directly via the busbar or poles of battery. Result will be likely be Victron will be more efficient in all 3 scenarios here. Now here is a description of my system, I think it is a template for a small system for grid tied house I have two sets of panels, each with a victron MPPT charging the same lifepo4 battery. The first MPPT is set to absorption 14.2 V and float 13,5 (so 100% SOC) The second MPPT is set to absorption 13.25 voltage and float 13.20 voltage. The second MPPT is parral at the input with a grid tied inverter that start charging at about 20 volts. This means the MPPT can have the voltage if it needs it (meaning there is solar and battery below 13,25 volt), if not it goes to the grid tied inverter. Sometimes they fight a little bit but often not for long. Between the battery and the grid tied inverters second MC4 port I have a 12-24 DC-DC. It has the low cut off set at 13.0 volt and it's relais controlled by a smartplug. That plug is controlled by a p1-meter that can see whether watts flow in or out of my house. When more than 240 watt is being pulled from the grid the smartplug is turned on and the DC-DC pushes an extra 240 watt into the grid tied inverter.

[@fc436]

these people dont know ohm law? mppt + inverter is the same that growatt. If the load power does not exceed that produced by the mppt. what do they think? That if the inverter is separated the current goes first into the battery and then to the inverter? I hope not because these are the minimum bases of electrical physics.

[@kojomensah7474]

So may I ask you how many solar panels do you need to run a washing machine buy using the growaat , during the day

[@HotRockCentral]

David, I've gone thru 4 victron chargers that lasted about a year each. I switched over to Growatts & not having any failures with them yet, well over a year now. Victrons are more feature rich but aren't worth a crap to me, especially since Growatts are more than half the cost of victrons.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thank you for sharing your experience.

[@TheOneJacinto]

What happened with the old David Poz?, what I missed up?

[@NicholasLittlejohn]

Wild man! 👏

[@dadawoodslife]

Here in Australia, with grid connect systems, the inverter efficiency is negligible compared to the price you get to export power compared to that you pay for it. When the export price is so low as to be cover even the daily standing charge, it pays to use all your produced power. Early adopters got a rate, made it worth while exporting it all and buying back to do washing overnight. Off-grid, as you've shown, is a different game entirely.

[@chuxxsss]

The high paid back was because it cost 10,000 aud for a 3 KW system. Let just say they are stealing the money back now. Also that rate ends soon.

[@dadawoodslife]

@@chuxxsss Ended a year or more ago in WA.

[@randybobandy9828]

@@dadawoodslifein WA?

[@dadawoodslife]

@@randybobandy9828 Western Australia

[@randybobandy9828]

@@dadawoodslife I thought you meant Washington state

[@danielshanechapman2019]

I have an e-bike that's 72 volts. Is there a solar charge controller other than the MPT-7210A that can directly charge a 72-volt battery? I would like to use a higher solar panel input voltage. :)

[@ssteele1812]

Can the Growat pull from the battery and the grid at the same time to match power usage in the moment like a Victron Multiplus can? I'd love to have a charge controller and inverter combination but for my camper setup, I need to be able to limit the amps taken from shore power and compensate with battery power as needed. For instance, my portable inverter generator can not run my rooftop air conditioner but if I could get a little boost from my batteries and inverter at the same time, I could stick with my small portable generator.

[@kozlovskyi]

Almost all Chinese hybrid(off grid) inverters can

[@krippleman79]

What type of batteries work best for the growatt?

Great Test !! You consider using energy when producing it but you are using Lithium and turnaround efficiency usually %99 percent on lithium. So nothing different for you when you are using lithium. We can consider gain of energy, saving energy when using lead acid or gel batteries . Also this test doesnt mean external chargers is worst because even you are using external charger when there is load in the house you will get the same efficiency from inverter. BEcause energy produced from external charger will split without going in to the battery, home usage will go directly to inverter and excess power will be stored in battery, if any. The correct logic is like you said, washing the dishes in sunlight =) But for lithium it will just save u %1 turnaround, and a little from cycle life of battery. I dont know at the time this video released they have it or not bu currently victron has 450 V chargers. (SmartSolar MPPT RS) Pricey but they have.

[@coreyellisart6877]

David I have some questions about hooking up my lithium batteries is there a chance I can get ahold of you and talk with you as opposed to sending messages and waiting days in between messages it would probably only take a few minutes

[@emiliabunko4518]

David, your YT content is so good that I won't even mention a word about the beard. Thanks for shaving, sorry I mean sharing ;-)

[@DavidPozEnergy]

LOL

[@bpaultyros3]

How much is growatt self consumption on inverter and solar charger mode on and only on solar charger mode? do you know? Thanks!

[@steveplowman4005]

David another great real world example, do you have any feedback on combined solar/ wind as I am planning an off grid installation in Tasmania ave sunlight moderate wind. I am figuring that I can have a smaller solar and top up at night as the wind seems always to be there in some amount. Thanks Steve

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Sorry, but I don't have experience with wind turbines.

[@sylvain3625]

@david poz: I'm not sure to understand all that setup but if you have a multiplus II and be able to use directly the solar energy for your home. Then you will have the same advantages as with the Growatt isn't it ?

[@fc436]

any mppt with any inverter use the power directly for loads, if the load power is less or equal to solar power. never the power can go into the battery and than go out from battery to inverter.What the hell does this video mean? I hope I'm wrong

[@COO698]

What is the cheapest 48v battery?

[@yodasbff3395]

👍

[@Patrick.Eckert]

Did you factor in wattage loss in the wire to and from battery / inverter? The higher the load the less efficient.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I was trying to stay conservative. Just like when I used inverter "94% Max". Usually the inverter is around 92-93%. I could have added wire loss in there too. But, I figure, if I can make the point while being conservative, then it only gets better later.

[@maartenoben6906]

Nice video. Can you add another source to the growatt to charge the batteries? Like a generator or maybe an electric car like the hyundai ioniq 5 or kia ev6.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

You can feed a generator into the inverter to charge the batteries. I tested this near the end of this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pX6rZHyth5WNeZo

[@TechRich4u]

Great Videos David! Curious what made you switch from your SMA Sunny Boys to Growatt? Also do you have a video on how you wired the transfer to switch between Grid and off-grid? Like to see that video.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I was having some programming glitches on the SMA's. I had to re-set them about once a month. The Growatts have never been re-set and still running after a year.

[@VinceBadovinatz88]

@@DavidPozEnergy very nice I'm starting to like the grow w

[@user-lp1qf1kh2s]

Hi David, thanks for the video. can you please tell me how you connected the solar panels, their watts, voltage and amps for the growatt inverter.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I have my panels connected in two strings. The two stings are paralleled at the inverter. Each string is about 300 Volts, 9.8 Amps.

[@MarkPrince1317]

Thank you for very technical review You look very handsome brother Best regards from Philippines 🇵🇭

[@JPG23]

I continue to be amazed by the quality and durability of the Growatt inverters. Though Victron is a proven product, the Growatt bundle is definitely more convenient; however, one question I still have, if one of the features of the Growatt fails does the entire unit need to be replaced? Thanks for posting this very informative video, I always enjoy your content.

[@estesfamily6761]

There are separate circuit boards inside the Growatt. So for example, if the solar charge controller board fails, it’s an easy board swap.

[@JPG23]

@@estesfamily6761 awesome! That's what I was hoping for, will definitely go with this one when I'm ready

[@Wrenchen-with-Darren]

I am a growatt owner; It should be noted, if any component of the growatt fails, the inverter will shut down. So, even though the component that failed is all you need to repair, the entire unit is unable to be used. I'm not to concerned just wanted you to be aware.

[@onthelake9554]

@@estesfamily6761 And you can buy parts for the growatt where ?

[@michaeljoncour4903]

yes its easy, your unit will be out of action for a couple of weeks, and you will just have to pay an electrician a few hundred for repairs, they know they will end up with more of your MONEY if they put as much into the one unit as they can. i have been off grid 35yrs, separate is best, also back up, i have 5kw inverter for shed, 3.5kw for house, i don't like the idea of having spare inverter sitting in cupboard for years, i'm afraid it won't work when i need it

[@jefflongino4999]

I have watched a number of your videos, particularly the ones on inverters. Here in late 2022 what would be your "go to" inverter to build a new system if you were starting today?

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Depends on your application. Are we talking a small portable system, or a stationary, whole house setup?

[@jefflongino4999]

@@DavidPozEnergy half house:) I have 2 200amp services/panels. I have the heavy loads (except the well) on one side that will NOT try to use solar. But the well and most of the smaller circuits including microwave and several refrigerators I would like to run on solar. Goal is 2 fold: 1) run on solar most of the time to reduce power bill and 2) have critical circuits available during any grid outage. Hoping to size the system so that in most situations the solar/batteries get me thru and not have to switch back to grid often...but fully aware that times of overcast for days I will need to.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I would suggest you start your research with the Schneider XW PRO. signaturesolar.com/schneider-conext-xw-pro-6-8kw-inverter-charger-48v-120-240v/?ref=4_rHcgZ9x-TiF- (affiliate link) This inverter can be positioned in between the 2 panels. One XW inverter can easily handle a well pump, fridge, lights, TV, etc. (probably everything you have on that critical loads panel). It can be connected to solar through AC coupling, and/or DC coupling. And, it has the ability to do zero export, which means if there is surplus solar energy it can back-feed the main panel only to the point of zeroing out your meter. They can be stacked if you need more power, but that is probably only necessary if you want to back-up all of your loads (both panels)

[@carlbrrt]

Helped me make up my mind. Growatt 3000 for our house. Then next spring add another. Does Signature Solar give you support when we purchase?

[@DavidPozEnergy]

The links in the description are affiliate links. If you open one of those links, and buy something while that window is open, then it gives me credit as part of the affiliate program. I appreciate if you choose to do so, but the most important thing is to find a product that works for you.

[@yankey4]

Thanks for sharing brother. Nice to see the real world info .God Bless

[@michaeljoncour4903]

NO GOD PLEASE save it for church, how would you like it if devil worshippers did the same!!!!!!!!!!

[@yankey4]

@@michaeljoncour4903 what ? I have the right all day to say God Bless. As Long as David ok with it than I can do it. God Bless..

[@DavidPozEnergy]

My channel is family friendly. I delete offensive comments, and I don't consider saying "God Bless" to be offensive.

[@deanrowles3665]

Hi David, I have built a system with 16 230ah eve cells, a spf5000es growatt inverter, I have it all completed and am at the stage of connecting them together, I know before I hust connect the two via my 6awg wires, I need to precharge the capacitors, I have a 10w/10ohm resistor, Is this resistor ok to do the precharge or do I need to get a different one, if so what ohm do you suggest, have watched all your videos and they are great, thanks Dean

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I use a 10 ohm, 100 watt resistor. A 10W might burn up like a fuse. Also, the manual says the minimum wire size from Battery to inverter is 2 gauge. I used 1/0 on mine

[@kelpfl]

Great video. If anyone is still following this string, I have a small system of individual components including a Victron charge controller. I want to upgrade to something like the Growatt and would pay for the Victron Multi, but I don't think it has an AC IN for charging (or pass thru). Am I wrong. I really like Victron, but that seems like a big thing to leave out. Am I wrong? Does Victron have something else that is all in one with AC in? Thanks for any help.

[@rockpadstudios]

wow 98.3% is amazing when you think about it

[@StellanLarsson]

Very nice videos thank you! I am trying to find a system lika yours that I can add wind power to. That power can be both DC or AC since most wind generators comes with a transformer that makes direct current. Du you know anything about this?

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Sorry, I don't have experience with wind turbines.

[@StellanLarsson]

@@DavidPozEnergy Okey, thank you anyways!

[@serverrackbatteryusa]

This is new information.

[@Wrensspeedshop]

Always enjoy the videos. Have to say the Ted Kaczynski uniabomber look is throwing me off a little bit LOL

[@tule-hz5mj]

Hi, how much kWp is solar panel ?

[@offgridsolarpoweredaircond9574]

Who is that new guy with the beard?

[@bigdaadio.K2WW]

Thanks for sharing David. I'm curious, you say the batteries are "99% efficient round trip", Is this an industry standard or have you actually made that test? Im very new to lithium, been using FLA forever, and just now beginning to migrate. If that is so, thats a huge feather in LIfePO technology's cap, my systems were at best 80-85% with FLA. I wasnt aware Victron was so efficient either. One more question, can the GROWATT act as a standalone controller/inverter/charger? Guess I should do some studying... Thanks again for sharing!

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I've tried testing the round trip with my battery bank, and was getting the same numbers in and out. That would indicate 100%, but that's not possible. So my tools are not accurate enough to say exactly how efficient they are.

[@bigdaadio.K2WW]

@@DavidPozEnergy either way it FAR better than lead acid!

[@BackboneNF]

I have 9x 550W panels with 49V open circuit DC each. Would the growatt take it in series? It is 450v max but can only handle 430V in regular.....

[@DavidPozEnergy]

No, I wouldn't wire all 9 panels in series. The 450V is a hard limit. You risk damaging the inverter if you go over that. Also, don't forget to add cold temperature compensation to the calculation. You will have to check the NEC (electric code) for your temperature compensation, but if you don't know it, then worst case is 1.25, which basically means adding 25%. Voltage goes up on a solar panel when temperatures get cold. So, I would run my calculation like this: (450 Vmax)/(49.0 Voc)(1.25)=7.3 panels in series. Since you can't have a fraction of a panel, round down to the nearest whole number. The most you can wire in series is 7 panels while being within safety margins. You got 2 spares.

[@BackboneNF]

@@DavidPozEnergy Today I wrote with PowMr . They sell the SPF5000ES at ebay with 500V DC in. The seller said that 500V is the upper limit. So 8 Panels x 49x1,25 =490V will do.

[@shtrooodel]

While I get your point, the test should compare apples to, at least pears or something... Will a combined Growatt be better than a discrete Victron MPPT and a Victron inverter?

[@mathuswins]

It will not. I have a full Victron system and when I need for example 500w and my battery is full my mppt will supply 500w to my inverter, "bypassing" the battery. Growatt is still great for that price and overall a great inverter!

[@henninghaipl3231]

Hi, Did the Growatt an Victrin load the same Batterie? If yes, is there any more component between the victron and the batteries. Thanks for you response.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Yes, both charge the same battery bank. I have a circuit breaker in between the two.

[@mohiddeenmneimne7966]

@@DavidPozEnergy what about the BMS, how would the victron get battery info from the bank?

[@oogie-boogie]

if the inverter can use the solar voltage directly i would love that

[@clarencewiles963]

I’m having someone knocking on my door 2 times a week wanting to sell me on there Solar program. With your work doing it your self are you able collect any tax advantage? Thanks again for your work and posting.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Sometimes. I think last year I was able to deduct the cost of equipment, but I couldn't apply for my state rebate. Something like that. Every state is going to be different.

[@backhoefred]

Was going through some of our surplus solar controls that we haven't been able to scrap. Are you interested in any unused horizontal axis commercial array, electronic controllers? There in plastic sealed outdoor rated boxes. They are programmable with Arduenio circuit boards. Free of charge, shipping should be cheap since they don't weigh much thanks Fred

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thank you for the offer. Are you on Facebook to discuss further? I'm at DavidPozEnergy

[@chris1john99]

Question. Inverter. Out of growatt.. aims signeer and victron. Any preferences. Or do all have quirks

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Out of the three you mentioned, sigineer and Aims are in the same basic category of low frequency, basic units. They get the job done, but are not delivering perfect clean power. The Victron is in a category of top of the line inverters. Victron is made to last much longer, cleaner output, more controls, and more efficient

[@chris1john99]

@@DavidPozEnergy you obviously like the growatt. To

[@chuxxsss]

Hey David, do you have the occasional Growatt shut down? Normally happens when I turn the dryer on?

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I've never had the Growatts shut down due to overload. I've had them shut down twice due to low voltage, but that's my fault for running the battery empty.

[@chuxxsss]

@@DavidPozEnergy I start to think they are selling faulty units here in Australia, after reading ebay comments.

[@oogie-boogie]

lol,, when i started this vid i was like who the heck is this,, then i herd the voice,, great vid i have the victron now,, but im always looking for a better controller,, yesterday i was pushing 75 amps charging my batts, i always make sure the batts are full before before, starting up the ac and stuff,,were useing 20.kwh a day, but were running the ac of the sun,, intill 8.00pm but from then on just off the batts ,, we go from 48.50 to 45. ish

[@jacquesdutron9954]

Hey David my hero! I was wondering if you could build me 2 of "all on one panel" system like you did for your friend in Florida and tested it in Maine. (One will be powering all my 110 volt (tools & appliances) and the other will be powering all my 220 volt ones. Thank so much for what you've been doing. PS (I will let you pick the solar panels and batteries too)

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Sorry, but I'm not set up to build these commercially.

[@jacquesdutron9954]

@@DavidPozEnergy ok, thank for your reply. Keep up the good work

[@martingerken7094]

Hmm... and how much of maximum current of the devices was used? That should be part of a fair comparison. Your last point was distracting: it is not fair to compare a charge controller to a hybrid inverter

[@allanstrand638]

Test a growatt charge controller SC4880 too ?

[@JoJo-mg9ix]

Hello the growatt has a max panel of about 5000 watts .... i wonder if it could work with the victron mppt parallel (for extra panels for better winter performance)

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Yes, that's how I had it setup for over a year. I have three solar arrays in my backyard. Two of the arrays went to my two Growatt inverters, and the other went to the Victron.

[@backhoefred]

What happens to your batteries when they die? We are in the scrap and salvage business and have no outlet for them. Solar panels either, same thing. That is why i still prefer lead acid forklift batteries there worth 17to 22 cents per lb. And are readily saleable. Also how forgiving are temperature variation in lithium iron phosphate batteries, all the questions are for a friend wanting to build a mini grid in western Montana, on a housing subdivision. Thanks in advance Fred

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Last time I went to dispose of a large lithium battery I paid a fee at the recycling center. In this area, Lead acid still wins. I think I remember once learning that 98% of lead acid batteries are recycled? I think that's awesome. LiFePO4 chemistry wants to be charged between 32°F and about 120°F. They can be stored below freezing, but not charged below freezing. A friend of mine made a very nice example of an insulated box for his lithiums, and he lives in the cold Vermont mountains: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bImvgH6qoZKkadU

[@backhoefred]

@@DavidPozEnergy My friends winters get as low as 20 below they build very insulated mechanical rooms for the solar setups.i helped him with his he has lead acid with no problems but he did have to run a small propane heater for some the really cold days. I suggested for him to install a passive geothermal system to elimate the expense of the heater.

[@newmanmtetwa8]

DAVID YOUR NEW LOOK🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@almuntaserballahal-qdasasi8984]

Hello my dear Mr . Dovid You are an admirable engineer. I have a question about how can we connection three Victron or Sunny island inverters for getting three phases? Finally, have a nice beard

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I've never set up 3-phase so I can't answer from personal experience

[@almuntaserballahal-qdasasi8984]

@@DavidPozEnergy Thanks. we need to see you doing that in future have a good day .

[@backhoefred]

Three phase is available through 3 sunny islands go to smas website for setup information. Requires three of the yellow inverters one master and two slave inverters. Fred

[@managersamuel]

David looks so different

[@jdfloats]

off grid look

[@zigzagzac]

Is someone able to explain how the integrated systems are more efficient at using the solar power directly? I'm not sure it's correct. To my knowledge the Growatt has a separate charger and inverter and needs to energise both in order to invert the DC from the panels and into AC ie the integrated charger has already stepped down the solar input to 48v which is feeding the inverter. In that case it would be no different to having a charge controller and inverter separately installed. Individual components might actually be more efficient as they won't heat soak eachother? Or is Growatt doing something tricky like allowing high voltage DC from the panels to run the inverter directly? Would be interested to know

[@JayCGypsy]

You are correct.

[@oldvideos1]

I am researching this topic now, and interested about this.. trying to figure if i want an all in one , or separate...

[@kingscairn]

Looking around through your vids for total cost of your complete system - didnt find that - sooo - HOW MUCH ? - I'd have to do the nerdy math for cost analysis

[@pmotorsports8276]

Is that a micro phone or chest hair

[@DavidPozEnergy]

It's a microphone.

[@tau9632]

Loved the video - thanks for taking the time to do these measurements. I'm always super curious about that kinda stuff too (is Victron just ripping us off with their higher prices, or are they actually worth it?). That being said, I'm not sure your last bit of maths is correct. When not directly using the power, you have the three conversion steps (1) solar -> batt, (2) batt in -> batt out, (3) batt -> load and I think your numbers there make sense. Roundtrip efficiency of 87.5%. When you use the power directly, you still have steps (1) and (3) - you simply cut out the battery inefficiency. But the DC power from the panels still has to be down-converted to battery voltage and then inverted back to higher voltage AC. It's not like the inverter in the Growatt can use the high-voltage DC directly from the panel and ONLY invert it to AC, right? And in that case, the round-trip efficiency is 94% * 94% = 88.4% - so you'd have an efficiency gain of 0.9 percentage points, not 6 PPs. Am I missing something?

[@patrickdk77]

It depends, not sure how it's wired up internally, but if the inverter can use the solar voltage directly, converting 150-200v dc to ac is a lot more efficient than scaling up from 48v dc to ac

[@Marker-er3ro]

I thought Will Prowse did a growatt setup without a battery and it does work. So it does go directly from solar dc to ac output and is most efficient in that route.

[@azpcox]

All of these hybrids and even the SolArks have an internal DC bus voltage they maintain. Looking at my eg4, it’s at 369V right now. The first step is Solar DC the bus DC voltage conversion which is surprisingly efficient. The inverters borrow battery power to maintain that ~369V dc and when excess solar power is available (after AC loads are met), charge the batteries.

[@njipods]

Didn't gorwatt get done for not passing EMC standards?

[@BecomingOffgrid]

Are you at 100% offgrid yet David? If no, please make a video about why or if you plan to get there.

[@D2O2]

This is answered in the video....

[@dnvr08]

Long time fan and have some questions and was wondering if you could help me or if anyone interested could add their thoughts too. I designed and built our system here in Danville, Indiana without any background in Solar or much practical DC experience at and but got it up and running two plus years ago, I am using 3 Arrays total which are connected to an 8K Sol Ark and we are Grid tied. Battery Backup is 16 180ah AGM telecom batteries. Would like your ideas, pros / cons on adding and or converting to lithium and going off grid?

[@DavidPozEnergy]

If the old telecom batteries are sitting there for backup only, then not much need to change them. Instead I would look at what the utility program is in your area. Are you getting a 1:1 credit? As in 1kWh sent to the grid during the day gives you 1kWh to use at night? Or, do you sell the grid power at wholesale rates and have to buy at retail rates? Knowing that will help decide if buying more expensive lithium batteries makes sense.

[@dnvr08]

@@DavidPozEnergy sell at wholesale .05.5 cents and buy at .11 cents.Plus The investment so far is not bad at $12K I bought all those AGM on the cheap when they upgraded the towers here and got them for 3K with the telecom rack. $6K was for the 8K Sol Ark.

[@SiBex_ovh]

Sub done :). I have Victron 150/35 for 4 panels and have question about this Growatt. How it works without Solar connected (Victron use them) means how works Battery and Grid... this is Battery first and Grid add additional power or it's separated and Battery only until it;s off and then swap to Grid. This is the most question I have before buy a Growatt :) Maybe this is good question to do a new video ? :). BR from EMEA\Poland.

[@LucScheffers]

Isn't this a bit of an apples to pears comparison? a solar inverter/charger with a just a solar charger? would a Victron Multi RS Solar 48/6000 solar inverter charger be more of an equal comparison?

[@fc436]

its the same. in fact, victron easy solar have inside a real smart solar.

[@backhoefred]

Did you realize that your Sunny Islands are designed for ac coupling? I have a DC Solar Trailer that has a small dc coupled array. I am powering my whole house and shop with my old grid tied system frequency shifting the two separate one (enphase micros 6kw)and the other a H6 solar city from Signature Solar. Contact me if you want more info. Thanks Fred

[@backhoefred]

PS my H6 also has 6kw of solar, the sunny island contols both separately . Battery capacity is around 50kw. Running totally off grid.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Sounds like a nice setup. Yes, I love the AC coupling function.

[@Dutch_off_grid_homesteading]

heya, yes victron is know for it's efficientcy but the prrice is also pritty high

[@GoodboyfromGerman]

Growatt MPPT Range is from 120VDC to 430VDC. If you increase the input voltage you get better efficiency

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I would have guessed the opposite. Do you know of a study, document, or video that demonstrates the efficiency difference at different input voltages?

[@GoodboyfromGerman]

@@DavidPozEnergy 12V 24V 48V => AC/DC inverter which one has the best efficiency? Hi David, guessing doesn't get us anywhere, that's why we're doing a test.

[@squeaky_honda]

​@@DavidPozEnergy These units use buck/buck-boost converters, 1 or 2 stages. Victron uses 2 buck stages, I don't know yet about growatt. If growatt's MPPT uses 2 stages to reach the "internal bus voltage", the first stage gets burdened with more current if the input voltage is low but input current is high. Mosfets for 450V have resistance of 0.25 or 0.4 ohms. I don't know why they chose the shittiest mosfets range (450V), when 600V mosfets can do better at 0.073 ohms for a similar price. 22x22x0.4=193W if a single mosfet is used. If 4 parallel mosfets are used, then 193/4=48W. If the input current was 10A, then the losses are 10x10x0.4=40W or 40/4=10W. The coils for the buck-converters have some internal resistance which might be more than the mosfets' resistance, in which case the above calculations still stand, but I don't see heatsinks on those, so they can't be heating-up too much.

[@squeaky_honda]

Correction: Growatt uses one boost converter. Grabs whatever voltage and boosts it to almost 430V.

[@grumpyshorts1056]

You think that Growatt would be good for an RV?

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Growatts are built for stationary situations. I wouldn't use it if your RV is made for off-road. Vibrations will be too much.

[@grumpyshorts1056]

@@DavidPozEnergy Ah... one of those thoughts I never thought of! tks

[@johnmirbach2338]

😎🖖👌👍✌️🤓

[@blairmullen721]

I am wanting to put 10 400w panels on my motorhome 5 underneath that extends out and 5 on top stationary They are 48voc panels at 9.51 amp sc. I plan to wire 5 in series which would be 240 volts at 9.51amp and parallel the second set which would stay at 240v and 19amps I am thinking that with the panels laying down on the roof and not getting full sun most of the time as like you I’m in Nova Scotia and get your leftover clouds which seems to get bigger as they cross the water, I won’t get peak voltage or amperage very often if at all. I am also thinking on totally over cast days but not storming and dark but fairly light, with 4000w I should get at least 10% 400 watts to charge my batteries Does this sound possible? I have been trying to figure out how the Victron 250/60 controller actually works. I have a 12v system, it’s my understanding that the panel Voltage is independent to the battery voltage and the controller will control the solar to input to charge the 12v batteries because it is a 12/24/36/48v controller, is this correct? And will this controller protect it self when and if the voltage were to go over the 250v rating Thanks Blair

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Hi Blair, You have a good start to your plan. There are a couple more things to consider. Yes, this controller works with 12V batteries. On the battery side is the maximum Amperage. In the case of the Victron 250/100, that's 100 Amps. That means the maximum power you can ever utilize on a 12V system is about 1.4kW (100A@14V). Keep this in mind because you said you are planning 4kW of solar panels, which means you will be loosing out on 65% potential. Some clipping is OK, but usually kept lower, around 20%, in design. Personally, I would split the array into more than one charge controller. Next, let's talk Voc. Volts open circuit. You said your panels have a Voc of 48V, and you are correct that the string Voltage of 5 panels is 240V. Keep in mind, this Voltage is under STC (standard test conditions). The solar panels I use are certified with STC of 25 degrees C (pretty common). The Voltage of a solar panel will be higher at lower temperatures. For my climate (North east United States) we have cold weather. My electrical code dictates I add 21% to the Voc based on my areas winter temperatures. The coldest areas add up to 25%. If you don't know your areas multiplier, assume 25% if you want to be safe. That means your 240Voc will be 300Voc in winter. The Victron charge controller can protect itself with a very small over-Voltage, but not that much. I suggest changing your plan to keep Voc(cold t) below 250V. Consider some different options. Either different controllers that can handle more Voltage, or different panels, or different string orientations. Good luck with your build.

[@blairmullen721]

I understand about the cold but it’s going on my motorhome and it’s stored in the winter, I can also use disconnect switch to shut panels off Your talking about 1.4 Kw at 100 amps at 12v I’m not understanding, I need help The panels produce 48 Voc and rounded up 10 amps, so 5 panels 250v and 10 amps. The second set in parallel would be 250 v at 20 amps going into the controller So how does it work that I’m loosing my power. Just trying to understand, I can be dense sometimes and I how to do just about anything but I only know enough to be dangerous I picked the 250 controller because I couldn’t find a larger one. Do they have any and what do you recommend for a controller I am trying to maximize Solar power with available space on the roof I’m wanting to be able to use the AC at about 1700 watts, I got a 3000w inverter pure sine wave If I can understand how the panels and controller all works together I could then make proper changes

[@DavidPozEnergy]

100Amps is about the largest solar charge controller out there. The 100A rating is based on the battery side, not the solar side. You said you are running a 12V system, which will charge around 14V most of the time (depends on your exact battery specs). 14V*100A=1,400W. This is the maximum Wattage the charge controller can OUTPUT to a 12V system. If you had a 48V system, charging at 56V, then it could output more Watts, but the Amps still stay the same. 56V*100A=5,600W. Your solar panels will make 240V, but they don't "make" Amps, Amps are pulled by the charge controller. So, in your 12V system the charge controller can only output 1,400W. This means it can only pull in 1,400W. 1,400W/240V=5.83A. That's it. Even though your solar array has the POTENTIAL of 20A, the charge controller can only pull 5.83A at that Voltage, given your choice of a 12V battery bank. I totally understand this stuff can get confusing on your first go. I recommend watching a 6-part video series from Alt-E. www.altestore.com/diy-solar-resources/off-grid-solar-system-design-video-series/

[@blairmullen721]

Now I understand how it works thanks very much and now I will go watch your link Thanks Blair

[@blairmullen721]

Am I understanding this correctly I can get a 75v/15amp controller for $135.00 This would allow me to get the maximum out of 1 48voc 400watt panel So I would need 1 of these controllers for each panel to get the maximum wattage available from each panel If I want to keep my 12v battery OR Use a 48v battery bank and a 48v inverter to supply my 120vac and then a 48vdc to 12vdc converter to charge my 12v battery bank to power my 12v accessories in the motorhome Is this correct? Even though the first option my not be practical Thanks Blair

[@FaceTubeU]

You can hide a wireless mic in your beard now and it will act as a wind barrier for outside videos.

[@NicholasLittlejohn]

Legally true

[@whatthefunction9140]

Teen wolf is all grown up