Videogames Will Never Escape The Elements (and neither will you)

[@ArchitectofGames]

When you think about it, money is the most important element of all - looking to get some pals together to summon a Cash Elemental and maybe kill it haha no reason totally not running out of frazzles or anything: www.patreon.com/ArchitectofGames Twitter, Tiktok, Reddit, Discord, long ago, the four elements lived together in harmony, but everything changed when the twitter people attacked!: twitter.com/Thefearalcarrot

[@andreylucass]

Could you please display the titles of the games you're showing us?

[@luckygreentiger]

It's all rock paper scissors. It's literally the oldest game in human history. It's simple, easy to understand, and difficult/impossible to master.

[@luckygreentiger]

I thought you were going to talk about elements in terms of game mechanics. Rather your talk of paradigms really is just an explanation of what psychology calls heuristics.

[@LucenProject]

LOL. Such an appropriate response to "MTG" 🤣🤣🤣 Have I been watching your videos for too long if I can say "Aww, I miss Filby the Bilby"?

[@daegzy3031]

You can't show MBTI tables that many times and not drop your type.

[@TheViolaBuddy]

I really liked Mario Odyssey's way of playing around with archetypal elements/settings. All the typical settings are there, but in a different form. There's a desert, but it's the Mexican/Southwest American desert rather than the Egyptian one. There's a forest, but the focus is on machinery. There's a fire/volcano level, but actually it's just hot soup and the level is themed around cooking. Bowser's Castle, but now there's heavy medieval Japanese theming to the decor. Lots of familiarity in these settings, and lots of tropes like quicksand in the sand world or whatever, but just enough of a twist on them to feel noticeably different.

[@gadgetgecko1776]

rayman origins and legends both have some unique worlds. Like in origins theres a world themed around fire and ice, but they're both food related. The ice part is a freezer and has blocks of ice and cans of stuff, while the fire part has boiling pots being heated by fire-breathing dragon chefs

[@Deadflower019]

I like how the Desert is really cold. That's my favorite part.

[@Not.A.Heretic]

odyssey is peak and i hope they make a sequel

[@LoudWaffle]

There's a lake!water level, but it's themed around clothing. There's a beach!water level, but it's themed around bubbly drinks? Almost feels like they used random selection to mish-mash new ideas with the classical level types. Which is fine because they pulled off the execution well!

[@DanielisAwesome52]

Gravity gun is a crazy example to because any game thats ever had a gun shaped vaguely like that you can expect to work similarly as well. Portal obviously but even Ratchet and Clank games have guns with the three arms that pull material or enemies together then launch them. It created a whole new fantastical paradigm right alongside our existing one.

[@Poldovico]

Though in the case of R&C, those weapons owe more to the very first Ratchet and Clank's Suck Cannon, which predates the Gravity Gun by three years. R&C 3, which was contemporary to Half Life 2, also had the Rift Inducer, which shot screen-distorting singularities that would suck up enemies like a black hole, a pattern that also showed up in a bunch of places slightly later. Honestly, Ratchet and Clank as a series deserves more credit for introducing or popularizing wacky mechanics.

[@michaelcheng9987]

Like the video mentioned, it's the way they're designed that informed this new paradigm. They're not standard guns at all, the extending claws implies it's actually meant to pinch/grab stuff instead of shoot stuff. Which is then confirmed when you use it, and then you're taught _that's_ what it shoots. The portal gun does technically shoot stuff normally, but the design at least implies it's not a "bang bang kill" gun, and you see it shooting portals even before you're allowed to use it yourself. And then in later puzzles you see it _also_ cube-lifting abilities too.

[@Donderu]

A paradigm that does get used often but not often enough imo is that Healing magic damages undead enemies.

[@Dudex11a]

I will never get tired of that one boss in Final Fantasy X getting absolutely annihilated by Phoenix Downs

[@c.d.dailey8013]

That does seem situational. The cleric in Dungeons and Dragons have turn undead ability. They may be able to destroy undead at higher levels. I am not sure. So what you are talking about about reminds me of that. I think of a way to make the ability more helpful. The cleric or other kind of healer can turn all opponents for a period of time. It helps keep them safe while they heal.

[@One.Zero.One101]

One thing I don't like is when bosses are immune to everything, immune to all elements, immune to magical and physical attacks, immune to all status effects. The devs just basically threw out their own game design and made the fight about dwindling down the HP sponge.

[@cinderheart2720]

@@c.d.dailey8013 In previous versions of DnD you could hurt undead with the Cure Wounds spell.

[@gasterblaster9817]

@@cinderheart2720 Likewise, in previous editions clerics had the ability to channel positive energy, which healed everyone around them and hurt the undead.

[@pkphyre8920]

Domino meme: "Guy named Paracelsus has some wacky ideas about Salamanders" -> "Every game is contractually obligated to include fire, water, air, and earth damage types"

[@LimeyLassen]

Dude also invented water elementals being sexy

[@connordarvall8482]

But somehow, we lost the gnomes in the process.

[@brzt4256]

@@LimeyLassen you're telling me I have unholy knowledge about Vaporeon because of Paracelsus?

[@LimeyLassen]

@@brzt4256 100% true

[@Zanador]

I can't believe it's all because of a sexy key

[@Densoro]

Elements feel so much less token when there's not an optimized damage system built around them. A lightning sword in Sekiro feels so much more significant than a lightning sword in any flavor-of-the-month RPG because it's not just 'yellow damage number,' it's a set of moves and status effects not seen in any of the normal steel-on-steel fights.

[@junichiroyamashita]

True,a lack of organizing actually helps giving the feel. I liked Dragon and Ghost before they were balanced ,because the coolness was that they were "Prestige" types,with very few pokemon and op stats. Dragons were resistant to the starter(and Elett.) ,so real " final boss "feel. Ghost were the "trickster-joker" ,like being able to ignore terrain in MD,moves always 100% acc, and peculiar status moves. After gen 4,they were normalized too much.

[@Delmworks]

Plus it fits the mechanics while being distinct from them. It’s still a parry-counter, but even the mechanics of that are vastly different to the normal attacks. It also helps it hits like a truck and goes through enemy block, but rare enough

[@connordarvall8482]

@@junichiroyamashita I've started to appreciate early Pokemon types because of this. Ice offers no resistances? It's a late-game extension of water, it's not meant to be on its own or used by amateurs. Also, types were balanced by abundance (which had the knock-on effect of making psychic types indestructible, admittedly) You only have to start worrying about symmetry in the designs if your game is going to focus on competitive PVP or going to be played for hundreds of hours.

[@StarryxNight5]

Yellow lightning is cringe. Blue lightning is where it's at. It looks so much cooler than crackling piss

[@NevG27]

Yup, that's one of the places where FFXVI really fucked up

[@ivanbluecool]

Honestly as long as a game can use the same mechanics we see in older games but improve upon them or fix what doesn't work it's never a problem to me

[@ivanbluecool]

@@SimuLord well for me I want it to feel comfortable in some aspects so when the game is a bit more complex it makes it easier to get adjusted to it by already knowing the element system or how to level up equipment or such.

[@sonwig5186]

Personally I think the opposite. Things should be as interesting and different as possible.

[@sonwig5186]

@@SimuLord We are looking for different things. I think it is better to have wierd unpolished games than boring standardized games. I'm saying this as someone who values atmosphere etc. as the most important part of gaming today. Also I liked Daitkatana.

[@BrunisPistol]

​​@@sonwig5186 really good point. I love how much indie publishing and tools like UE5 enable developers to make niche games meant to appeal to certain tastes, as opposed to grinding every rough edge off for mass appeal

[@pedroscoponi4905]

If we look past the poison swamps, Fromsoft is really good at playing with paradygms. Shout out to the Dark Souls series for building an entire paradigm association of "Lightning beats Dragon" in it's very first cutscene (and subsequently reversing that association in Elden Ring to push the two IPs apart story-wise, even though they're mechanically connected). Or how thoroughly Bloodborne teaches you "if it has fur and it drools, burn it" not just with helpful item descriptions, but also dozens and dozens of werewolves already burned at the stake in the enviroment. Or the way Elden Ring's eldritch alien invaders are themed around _rock_ instead of poison, acid, or mental damage.

[@LighthoofDryden]

Imo another reason the “4 Elements” have such a chokehold because they mirror the states of matter Earth - Solid Water - Liquid Air - Gas Fire - Plasma Such a great video so far!!!!

[@Ramschat]

I've noticed the same thing!

[@frankcl1]

People did not know about plasma for most of history and I don't think most people have an intuitive grasp of what it is. Also it's more related to lightning than fire

[@jobo5300]

Many paradigms also start by using existing common elements (like fire, water, lightning, etc.) before starting to add in their original, more weird elements. Hence, the player doesn't have to start at zero when learning elemental interactions

[@epicazeroth]

My favorite thing is when games have elemental damage systems other than the standard mythological ones, but still are able to carve out their own niche for each one. Something like biological-mechanical-magical/psychic.

[@Salsmachev]

One of my favourite examples is Runescape's combat triangle. Wizards can kill warriors (they have a range advantage, can use debuffs and freeze effects, and spells do increased damage against metal armour), warriors can kill archers (arrows can't penetrate heavy armour, and without any kind of freeze effect the range advantage is negligible), and archers can kill wizards (wizards can't debuff archers, the archers can still attack while frozen in place, wizard robes don't provide any defence against arrows, and archers wear dragonhide armour that resists magic). It mostly makes sense and it adds some mechanical depth.

[@Coffeepanda294]

Reminds me a little bit of how Disco Elysium invented a familiar yet unique set of skills for your character. There were counterparts (with new, often creative names) for your typical ones like strength, perception, and charisma, but also brand new ones like Shivers, which gave you a kind of visions of past and current events, Inland Empire, which was how crazy things were inside your head (level it high enough and your necktie becomes a party member) and Electrochemistry, which was your inner party animal, complete with broad knowledge of alcohol and drugs. Never thought too much about elementals like fire, ice, etc. being a mainstay in games. I'm typically more annoyed by how so many fantasy settings resort to the Tolkien-esque array of humans, dwarves, elves, etc. But that's getting too far off-topic, ig.

[@Laezar1]

My current system for the game I'm working on has warmth/energy, cold/entropy, motion/vigor, stillness/apathy. They map to classical elements pretty well but with different implications when you mix them together. For exemple an ecosystem like a forest would be warmth + vigor, while warmth + apathy would be a desert but cold + vigor would be a city because the city itself is a lifeless environement but with a lot of dynamism from the humans living within. And rather than being about weakness and resistances it's about the type of effect (energy is typically going to be damage, cold is going to be negation effects and shields, motion is going to be buffs and empowerements and apathy is about debilitation and enfeeblements), and elementalist can gather energy from the terrain they're in so the type of effect they've access to vary depending on the terrain.

[@VulturineValkyrie]

I honestly loved OFF's different elements

[@ZarHakkar]

​@@VulturineValkyrieSmoke is mined from the ground to create the air we breathe, meat flows from fountains, plastic forms the oceans, metal is extracted from the stomachs of cows, and sugar is... well, I won't spoil it for those who have read this far.

[@mr.incorporeal7642]

I'm particularly fond of In Stars and Time's element system. It just fully drops the pretense and labels them, both mechanically and in-universe, as rock, paper, and scissors.

[@davidbrickey8733]

The best part is that the elements still inform the character archetypes. Your rock party member is a tank, your paper party member is the bookish mage, the speedy rogue gets scissors by process of elimination, and the super special Chosen One textually gets two elements (nevermind that she's not the only one who can use moves of multiple elements for gameplay purposes). They're also repeatedly stated to all have plenty of uses and cultural significance outside of combat.

[@NikkiTheViolist]

3:08 omg now i'm imagining an rpg that uses Jungian personality types in place of their elements ("Be careful of that attack! It's an Extravert attack and your character is weak to it!")

[@ArchitectofGames]

We're all scared of extroverts that's why we're on youtube

[@Evebestboi]

In a sense, Omori is kind of like that if you wanna check that out!

[@Secret_Takodachi]

That's why we extraverts are so vicious online. We're all just mad that we can't make introverts sweat IRL. 😂 Ok, well, maybe I'm training to be a pilates teacher & some of my wires are getting crossed here.

[@LimeyLassen]

So like Inside Out but it's a monster catcher game? That sounds lit.

[@Salsmachev]

Except the Jungian cognitive functions are sensation, intuition, thinking, and feeling. The E/I just comes from whether those functions are directed inward or outward (eg. Se relates to external sensation and being aware of and responsive to your environment, while Si relates to internal sensation and being aware of the condition of your own body and consistent in your muscle memory and habits). E/I actually has nothing inherently to do with social extroversion, though Myers and Briggs supposed that people with an introverted dominant function might be less likely to be acknowledged for their skills and thus might be less popular. P/J, on the other hand, is actually a grouping of the four functions. Sensation and intuition are perceptual. They are necessary in that they provide us with information (either tangible in the case of S or abstract in the case of N). Thinking and feeling are judgemental, in the sense that they provide us with decision-making procedures. The P or J in a persons Myers-Briggs type simply refers to whether the strongest extroverted function in a person's functional stack is a perceptual or judgemental function. For example, I am an INTP. The I tells you that my primary function is an introverted function, the P tells you that my strongest extroverted function is a perceptual function. The T and N tell you that my two strongest functions are T and N. Since my strongest extroverted function is the perceptual function, it has to be Ne, but we know that has to be my second fnction because my first function is introverted (Ti by process of elimination). So my major functions are Ti Ne, and we can then fill out the rest of the stack systematically to get Ti Ne Si Fe. Thank you for coming to my uninvited ted talk.

[@SocraTetris]

One of the strangest paradigms in action/fighting games is that Fast movements are balanced to be weak/light, but Slow movements are balanced to be Strong/Heavy. When you learn anything about physics and fighting, things that move faster, have weight, and impact on smaller surface area much stronger than a slow wind-up with a long, overhead animation. The only reason this really works, i think, it that we also falsely perceive large things as moving more slowly the further away they appear. A train can look quite slow until it is within a few hundred feet from ya

[@arghscuffelbut3226]

Of course, it's a balancing thing: if devs don't want you to be able to do everything at once, everything requires a tradeoff

[@DaShikuXI]

It's not strange at all, it's about game balance. Imagine if fast moves dealt high damage, and slow moves dealt low damage. Why would you then ever use the slow moves?

[@houndofculann1793]

I think a part of the logic is also that swinging a sledgehammer is very slow compared to swinging a baton but also carries a lot more force behind the strike. It's just that the same logic doesn't exactly directly extrapolate everywhere. A knife is much faster than a sledgehammer but you are also able to do several lethal wounds in the time of a one lethal sledgehammer impact

[@heavymetalelf]

I mean, force = mass x acceleration. A big heavy dude is gonna take more acceleration to negate inertia, thus bigger acceleration x bigger mass = bigger force. A quick, light punch doesn't have as much inertia to overcome to begin with, so it doesn't take much to get it started. With a lower overall level of force, it transmits less force as well. Makes perfect sense to me 😂

[@One.Zero.One101]

Agreed I never found the slow vs. fast style exciting. What makes the design worse is when you have to choose one style to lock yourself into, you're either fast all the time or slow all the time. It's a very boring choice. I prefer that you can use both at the same time depending on the enemy type. So far Sleeping Dogs is the only one that I've seen do that right.

[@danielhale1]

I liked Horizon where damage from elements was pretty poor, and instead elemental damage was used to trigger reactions from different parts on the target. And what element mattered for what part required taking the time to scan your target and learn about it, and having the accuracy to hit where you mean to hit. IMO that was a valuable shakeup of the normal elemental system. Another option for elemental identity is non-combat spells. The way you navigate the world is a really valuable way to give different roles to air, fire, water, earth, etc. The ability to repair objects, endure harsh environments, cure disease, teleport past physical barriers, open complex locks etc with the different elements can give them highly distinct identities.

[@SDGGames]

Ok, so I hear you asking for a game about a witch that travels from the friendly and familiar poison swamp through a warm and inviting volcano land before finally traversing the oppressive forest and facing the villain of the Green Grasslands...

[@Melotaku]

omg yes please lmao

[@byeguyssry]

I suppose another paradigm would be size. Even in games where an enemy's looks doesn't at all impact you, such as in card games as opposed to action RPGs, if the monster depicted looks big, it's strong, bulky, hits hard, but is slow.

[@nuclearocean]

Adam, there's like 3 poison swamps in the first ER DLC trailer already... Poison swamps and dirty feet are Miyazaki's serial killer calling cards, his PARADIGM if you will

[@ArchitectofGames]

crying in the club rn. sobbing. why wont he stop.

[@ShiftySetax]

@@ArchitectofGames He just can't help himself.

[@LimeyLassen]

...feet?

[@FelisImpurrator]

​@@ArchitectofGamesRoughly paraphrasing his own words, it's not because he likes inflicting pain, it's because he's a masochist and likes experiencing it. Man made his kinks every action combat game fan's problem and we all signed up for the highest tier of his Onlyfans.

[@arghscuffelbut3226]

​@@LimeyLassen Food for thought: Ranni, Malenia, Miquella, Radagon, Marika, etc

[@darthelmet1]

I joke that in some games like ARPGs where the elements don’t really do anything special that the game has “raspberry damage, blueberry damage, kiwi damage, grape damage, etc.”

[@Omawolfram]

that's one of the major gripes I had against Diablo3. D2's elements had identity. You see what's happening on screen and can adjust to it. In D3, when I died to a specific enemy I was always like: "Oh, this enemy does alot of damage. I have to take care of his attacks" and never like: "Oh, this enemy does lightning damage. Let me stack up some light res" btw wtf is arcane damage!?

[@One.Zero.One101]

Another thing I don't like is damage over time is usually not worth it. Wow 3 damage over 20 seconds? Just smack them with a sword and be done with it. Trash mobs don't last 20 seconds anyway and bosses are mostly immune to it. Instead of wasting your skill on damage over time, just spend that skill increasing your sword damage.

[@yishn]

Three-Headed Dragon Meme: Left dragon: 火烈 fire fierceness, 气和 air harmony, 水善 water benevolence, 土强 earth strength Middle dragon: 金属 metal, 闪噩 lightning bad, 株健 (tree trunk) healthy, 水寒 water cold, 龙异 dragon strange Right derpy dragon: 魔吗 (evil spirit) (question particle), 毒同 poison same, 光哥 light (older brother), 黑姐 black (older sister), 核今 nuclear now

[@michaelcheng9987]

My Chinese isn''t very good but I had a feeling they didn't sound right.

[@FlameRat_YehLon]

​​@@michaelcheng9987 I'm native Chinese and I have strong feeling that they didn't sound right

[@michaelcheng9987]

@@FlameRat_YehLon I'm ethnic Chinese too, I'm just terrible at the language.

[@johnnydarling8021]

6:38 Gun Elements: "Shoot tube" "Zoom-O-Matic" "[UNKNOWN OBJECT]"

[@silverdust4197]

Ha , the philosopher , nametag gag was neat . But guess what : Plato IS ALREADY a Nametag . By that , i mean it wasn't the guys actual name , but his wrestler name , meaning WIDE . he was apparently quite good at wrestling too .

[@ArchitectofGames]

I had no idea of this, that's amazing!

[@junichiroyamashita]

Platos meant " Wide shoulders" ,which was considered unattrative,but was an indicator of his wrestling skill.

[@solsolsolsolsolsolsolsol]

wh at

[@QuantumHistorian]

Someone should probably mention that his real name was Aristocles. Perhaps the nickname Plato stuck around for so long just to prevent confusion between Aristocles and his very similarly named disciple Aristoteles.

[@willofthewinds3222]

@@QuantumHistorian I was under the impression that we *didn't* know Plato's true name. What's the source on this?

[@DominoPivot]

I especially liked what the first few Kingdom Hearts games did with their elemental magic. There are only three basic elements: Fire, Blizard, and Thunder. The player has one spell of each type, and they vary in the way they target enemies, in their amount of damage, and in MP cost, making each useful in different situations even without taking into account their elemental aspect. Each enemy type has its own elemental resistances and vulnerabilities, and its own elemental attacks. Equipment can grant partial elemental resistances to the player, but enemies also have access to Darkness-type attacks, which only rarer equipment can provide resistance to. Some enemies can also absorb certain elements and be healed by them. Luckily, these enemies cannot absorb Gravity magic, a special player spell that deals proportional damage. So most of the time, you choose which spell to use based on (1) which enemy you're fighting, (2) how much MP you have, (3) where is the enemy position in relation to you and other enemies, (4) how much HP the enemy has left. That's a lot more interesting than just picking the right attack for the right enemy, and resorting to melee attacks when you're out of MP.

[@Poldovico]

But every enemy is vulnerable to a Keyblade to the face.

[@daniellemurnett2534]

@@Poldovico Um Actually, Large Bodies are only vulnerable to a keyblade to the *back.*

[@Poldovico]

@@daniellemurnett2534 If you jump you can hit them in the face and it works :P It's just the belly is in the way most of the time.

[@daniellemurnett2534]

@@Poldovico I literally knew this but it somehow didn't coem to mind I'm a fake fan Guardians are only vulnerable at the back for realsies though!

[@Poldovico]

@@daniellemurnett2534 It's much harder to avoid hitting the Guardian's shield than to avoid hitting the Large Body's belly, but I think it's possible. Keyblade ALL the faces! :D

[@junichiroyamashita]

I love pokemon type system,they are lot more than the common 4 or 5. Each type has its own identity in flavour and mechanics,with main themes and subthemes. You find stuff like Dragon,Ghost,Bug,Rock(specifically) Psychic,and Poison,all things that cannot be found anywhere else as main types.

[@connordarvall8482]

And in the earliest games, you had types that act as modifiers. Rock was pretty much an extension of Ground, Ice was an extension of Water, Psychic could exist on its own, but could also modify special types, overriding the previous rule and Flying can modify any type.

[@anoobindisguise4337]

@@connordarvall8482 I really like the mechanical identity set by the Dark type being all "underhanded" or "cheap" moves, that have less direct power than other types. For example sucker punch, fake out, pursuit, knock off, thief, etc all having some kind of utility or effect that hurts the other poke in ways other than just doing good damage or a status. There are other characteristics of other types too. Rock moves tend to be inaccurate. Fighting type moves tend to have really high numbers, but some kind of risk or drawback (focus punch, dynamic punch, close combat, high jump kick, etc). Some of the other types aren't as well defined (like flamethrower/bolt/icebeam all being basically the same attack, or scald in general) but gamefreak has done a great job especially with the gen 5 elite four types making their moves "feel" like they couldn't belong to any other type.

[@CreativeExcusesGaming]

The breadth of game footage you have is incredible.

[@Rkcuddles]

Seriously, thank you for the editing and including so much footage for those of us that watch closely

[@Jolfgard]

Grail is easy to understand. I still haven't gotten around the fundamental differences between Lantern and Moth though.

[@LimeyLassen]

Those are fun. Like Moth is associated with crime and sin, but also safety and transformation. It's really nonstandard. Also lantern is associated with enlightenment even though the gods and angels are all sorta evil and crazy.

[@Xhosant]

If someone is right, it's lantern, if someone is wrong, it's moth :P

[@jackmcawesome7087]

If I had to boil the aspects down to one word, I'd say that Lantern is knowledge and Moth is chaos. Both are connected to insanity, but Lantern is the insanity of knowing too much and Moth is the insanity of not knowing if you're even real.

[@kainingyao7873]

Excellent Avatar references here. I especially love the reference to the Avatar intro complete with Chinese terms for the various elements, beyond even the standard four elements.

[@zabrac1566]

The diverse list of games shown as background footage in this video was a fantastic Who's Who of gaming! Great video

[@MutedStoryteller]

I agree!

[@shilluba]

A series that does a stellar job at putting a twist on a classic system is the Like a Dragon RPGs! Having "homeless guy" and "cabbie driver" as RPG jobs is genius, you have to actually use each job for a while to notice "oh, so this is supposed to be a mage" lol

[@Multipurpose_Bagel]

If I had a nickel for every Indie fantasy game that checked at least two of these points... - long dormant "ancient glowing stone-technology" - enemies born from said technology - elemental variations of the technology - the name of the realm is some variation of "Arcadia" - a godess named Gaia, Maia, or something similar - promotional art that's heavily inspired by anime - in-game art that's an entirely different art style I'd had an excessive amount of nickels.

[@inthefade]

This is just because of people who grew up playing Square SNES JRPGs.

[@Multipurpose_Bagel]

I did not grow up playing them, but definitely makes sense as one source of the pattern.

[@LittleMushroomGuy]

Magicka is a timeless classic If only it didn't crash all the time

[@mothersteele3218]

I’ve always wanted a game that starts out with traditional element match ups; water dousing fire, fire melting ice, ice freezing water, etc, and then over the course of the game it starts shifting to one’s that go against what we expect. One day water is putting out fire, the next it only makes it burn hotter

[@avataraarow]

Sorry you’ve been having a rough time Adam, but your videos always brighten up my day so I’m glad you’re able to keep working through and hope you know there are lots of people who really appreciate your content😁

[@RazLegends-dc5cm]

Seeing a paradigm or motif realized feels kind of like the relief / catharsis that's felt when tension in music is resolved. Idk if that makes sense haha

[@anger_birb]

Obviously the alternative that we should be pursuing is switching to actual periodic elements, where each element's themes become more abstract and esoteric as you increase the number. "Molybdenum type enemies. Vulnerable to insults to their dancing skills, but very resilient to fire damage."

[@FelisImpurrator]

"Can you afford to take out some low-level Grunts and Jackals early, or do you have to focus on the much more threatening Elites and Brutes..." Sniper Alley PTSD: Ha. Ha. HahahahahahahAHAHAHAH

[@EvilParagon4]

I'm glad as a kid I figured out running on the roof long before I ever actually played Legendary.

[@JaySee3]

Elements are just cool as hell. If a game revolves around elements i'm instantly more interested in it

[@axis9038]

100%

[@noiJadisCailleach]

I don't remember the title, but there was a game where the fire user was a really calm type. A divine priestess with all the saintly powers. Her personality was more like a boiling volcano waiting to erupt anytime though. But that's beside the point. All the other characters with their relative elements are very non-conventional by todays' norms. This was around the 2010s. Our current landscape of "standard" (and boring) stereotypes started around 2012, i feel.

[@Delmworks]

I dunno, I feel it’s a fair bit older than that

[@wolfrosefrost5475]

A neat way I can see an elemental system being used, particularly in action games, is via having each element can alter combat in some way. A good example would be Fire where targets afflicted with it experience a short duration of continuous damage that deals a set amount of damage, this damage being further increased by damaging the target with the Fire causing the target to take increased damage from your attacks. Another example would be hitting a target with a life plant that leaches a percentage of a targets health, taking slightly more health over a longer duration than fire. The plant having a secondary effect of staggering a target that has the plant latched onto them, allowing one to more safely to attack with slower yet heavier hitting attacks with less risk of being countered. Examples such as these can also have a synergy effect where Fire can have its duration increased by having a plant latch onto a target that is on fire, additionally increasing the damage buff of Fire in the process.

[@ZarHakkar]

3:20 you thought I wouldn't recognize that Opus Magnum music with you talking about the elements

[@cationforge144]

Seeing Into the Breach in this video is interesting because *its* fire squads are more focused on (in the case of the flame behemoths) positional manipulation and slowly letting the Vek burn to death, or (in the case of the heat sinkers) just sucking. Then again the hyper offense squads in that game are based on lightning and acid so i guess they stick to the elemental paradigm somewhat.

[@wiseSYW]

horse element beats arrow element arrow element beats spear element spear element beats horse element

[@typemasters2871]

My favourite element is fire Yes fire element is normally paired up with destruction and burning but fire is also heat to keep away the cold, light to chase away the shadows, and energy in it’s most pure form Yes fire can be dangerous but it can be very useful if handled correctly

[@il-ma.le.]

The Last Airbender had that rainbow column of fire towards its end. Can't be the only one but but it's my favorite mental concept/image of fire being non-destructive(almost creative).

[@typemasters2871]

@@il-ma.le.Yes! This was exactly on my mind.

[@FelisImpurrator]

The Bullet Heaven subgenre uses fire for healing surprisingly often. 20 Minutes Till Dawn is just one, but a lot of them seem to have caught onto the whole phoenix theming.

[@typemasters2871]

@@FelisImpurrator that is nice to know :)

[@Slutlyfe]

I prefer electricity because it can literally do everything fire can plus move faster than sight, conduct and exist in more abstract geometry (since fire exclusively burns "up" it also looks cooler imo

[@ivanbluecool]

Honestly i wanna see nature types be more brutal as nature is very destructive when at it's worse Or like avatar sub type to each element so characters can grow into their own unique powers

[@vincentcircharo8259]

theres a lot of that in the form of druids in various games. shapeshifting into savage animals and tearing people apart

[@galewallblanco8184]

funny thing, each "sub-type" in avatar isnt really an entirely new element, its just a new and novel form of bending their already natural element. metal benders can only bend metals that contain certain amount of impurities, as found by that blind girl character. blood benders can only bend blood bc it contains water. lava benders (Bolin from Korra) still bend earth, just in a too violent way. lightning benders, like azula, are just bending fire (which is just plasma, aka energy) with extreme force and violence making it summon lighting. There is a fifth and special element tho, but only spirits and the avatar themselves have shown to use that one, Spirit Bending, which not only bends darkness and light, but also is the core of what allows an avatar to bend all elements, it can also be known as "life bending"

[@QuantumHistorian]

This video makes so much sense, I don't know if it's because it's brilliantly explained or because it's so damn obvious. Probably a bit of both. It's worth stressing that something not feeling new or surprising is not an unfortunate consequence of using an already understood paradigm, *but a tautology.* Understanding something means that you are not surprised by it and can predict how it works. The trick is for games to find the right balance between understandability and novelty (which depends on the mood the game is going for), rather than trying to be both at the same time.

[@Chessrook44]

Okay, this is probably gonna be a longer comment, but bear with me as something discussed here led to an idea to consider and work with. Let's say we made up a magic system to use in a world. This system has different aspects of magic become stronger or weaker depending on the season of the year it is. Now, it probably would make sense. Spring, a season of rebirth, would favor healing magic. Summer, a period of heat, favors destructive. Fall, a period of calming, could favor DOT magic. Winter, a period of stillness, would favor debuff magic. For the sake of argument let's say what that is. Now, here's where it gets interesting. While this is true for the homeland of your game or where you are, they soon learn of another culture where everything seems wrong. For some reason, this other culture has DOT magic in Spring, Debuff magic in Summer, Healing magic in Fall, and Destructive magic in Winter. Why is this? Because this other culture is on the opposite hemisphere, where the seasons are inverted for the same period of time. Spring in America is Fall in Australia, but both have the healing magic. Now, put your mind on and try and think of how this Southern society would explain such things in a way that would make sense to their culture.

[@ShiftySetax]

*ahem* Yoink!

[@Chessrook44]

@@ShiftySetax Hey go ahead. It was a basic idea, if you have better ways to work it and throw it into your D&D world or anything else go ahead.

[@ShiftySetax]

@@Chessrook44 Thanks, mostly kidding though. That's certainly an interesting idea though, and I might consider using something similar.

[@danieladamczyk4024]

Thats avatar. Still you did your best.

[@Chessrook44]

@@danieladamczyk4024 Wait... I thought Avatar was Earth, Wind, Fire, and Water. Admittedly I never WATCHED the show but still...

[@randysterbentz5599]

One time in college, my roommate and I were talking about the "four elements" and he pointed out that they aren't so crazy and are a decent representations of the phases of matter: earth = solid, water = liquid, air = gas, fire = plasma. That has always stuck with me, and has made interested in designing an elemental system for a game rooted more in the physics of each element. Earth practitioners excel at increasing covalent bond strengths between molecules, whereas fire practitioners can ionize and direct jets of plasma. This could lead to interesting extensions, such as lightning being a master level of fire, more precisely controlled and less wasteful. Some day I'll work on this... some day...

[@Lumbris7777]

This has been one of your most interesting videos for me, personally. Well done, Sir.

[@Rhabarbarum]

I'm sad this video didn't contain the element of surprise

[@kanalkucker14]

It did! Just listen to the first Patreon name shoutout!

[@goolgepl2112]

One could say you were surprised the video didn't contain it

[@JustABrokenToy]

Elements have always been a compelling paradigm, and I'm actually creating a board game where the core mechanic is collecting different Elemental abilities/cards. Each Element has a unique mechanical identity and elemental enemies have specific weaknesses/resistances. I dialed it back such that they only resist their own element at this point because the system doesn't need to be so complex for my purposes. I like to think the mechanics mirror expected paradigms but only time will tell.

[@jeremycaswell]

Something that would be a lot of work but would be cool is a soulslike or beat em up with the main character being a scientist. For magic or elements you'd have the entire periodic table, but to unlock them you'd have to either guess the atomic weight of the element, or fight a boss themed around that element, with heavier and lighter atomic weighted elements working as weaknesses to and strengths to other elements. But you couldnt go too low because then they would become unstable and explode where you hit them, hurting you in the process. Just an idea

[@mrhalfsaid1389]

Elements are just extremely useful as a framing device for mechanics... because they are ingrained in the game mechanics psyche and work on simplistic knowledge and deeply ingrained societal concepts. Plus they are easily done uniquely

[@Tyrone2714]

Honestly elements in games are one of my favourite elements. They add a fun rock paper scissors dynamic, are free in world philosophy, and can add loads of creativity within a set system

[@xintrosi6829]

I love that you mentioned Cultist Simulator and Book of Hours. They're two of my favorite games that no one seems to talk about.

[@TheRoseFrontier]

Honestly though, although it doesn't come out a ton in the gameplay, I do find it interesting how Genshin did the elemental system in terms of character writing, with the commonalities between people of the same element-they play on some classic connotations (like fire characters tending to be more extroverted and enthusiastic) but also taking other angles to add to it (fire characters are motivated by family, or at least have family that is really important to them for better or worse, kind of like this "hearth" fire aspect, someone who fights to protect). My favorite example might be water-they introduce this concept of "the ability of water is to take any shape" and run with it, basically just leaning into the "liquid" to make those characters into chameleons of a sort. They have deliberately crafted personas and put a lot of care into putting up a front, masking any weaknesses. It could be something humorous like the teenaged author going to great lengths to hide the fact that he has terrible handwriting, or it could be the leader figures trying to look noble and wise and whatnot. And then the biggest one would be the archon (the god of water) who (SPOILERS) is really a clone of sorts who has no godly power at all but is forced to keep up this ruse and pretend for hundreds of years in order to fool the higher, more powerful gods who are threatening to incinerate their entire nation. So yeah, saying that to say, I think there's a lot of potential in just leaning into every connotation we have with these elements or states of matter or whatever. How can that meaning change with different uses, and different environments? Plants are all about life and growth, sure, but also, fungus eats on dead things-maybe you can use that (or maybe someone already has and I don't know!). So, like, you don't have to subvert their meanings entirely, just...add on to it, you know?

[@matlabninja]

At 0:07, I was waiting for "Once the four elements lived in harmony, but everything changed when the fire nation attacked." or "Only the avatar can master all four elements..."

[@silvercakes]

8:50 I wish you touched more on the idea that video games didn't invent these associations - they run deeper than even the elements. Grasslands are safe places because you can see predators coming. Dark woods are dangerous because you can't. Most animals know this instinctively, and we're no exception. Our sense of primal danger is not based on the media we experience, though it can be reinforced by them. Swamps have been full of stench, poisonous plants and biting insects since long before humans existed, let alone video games. Dragons exist in the cultural psyche precisely because they're scary. They combine things we instinctually fear -- big teeth, big claws, giant bat wings, fire. We didn't learn that from video game conventions. This is also true of the elements, to a degree (though I haven't finished the video yet and you might touch on this): while you said they're "scientifically nonsense", they're actually a reasonable proxy for the phases of matter (solid=earth, gas=air, liquid=water, fire=....fire). And these abstractions are not just an outdated paradigm, we STILL experience the world this way. We don't pour glasses of Dihydrogen Monoxide, even though that is a more precise elemental paradigm than "water". We don't burn ourselves on exothermic oxidation reactions.

[@indigofenix00]

I was just working on an elemental system for my game when I saw this video! And yeah, a lot of it is already set in stone, but there's no reason not to shake it up a bit. What about Salt? It can counteract Wetness and deal extra damage to slimes, slugs, amphibians and fish.

[@TheManicMole]

all of From Software's games are a metastory of one man and his love for poison swamps. Let the man cook... toxic waste in his poisonous swamp.

[@Delmworks]

Clearly, the only way he can free himself is to make a game themed entirely around feet and poison swamps. Call it…Dark Soles

[@Mexalen81]

Amazed to see Cultist Sim /Book of Hours see on here. But it's true, these are alternative types of elements. :-o

[@FivePebblesFan]

Rain World mention! I am so happy :) Not gonna lie, did not expect Rain World to come up in this topic, but I am definitely not complaining!

[@themris]

Mark Rosewater's talk on game design called "twenty years, twenty lessons" is an excellent read and is quite applicable to this topic

[@andrewgreenwood9068]

12:53 aaggghh. In all seriousness the colour pie is one of the single best pieces of game design i have ever encountered

[@alaskanuni]

Burn out is rough. Take care of yourself. I'm happy if videos take longer and you take good care of yourself.

[@klonvomhaus]

I'm absolutely here for you whining, Adam. Hope you take enough rest to feel well soon. Remember to do things that you can see the immediate reward for. Thank you for making this video, I love your channel and your work is great.

[@Delmworks]

Dishonorable mention to a gatcha game- Limbus Company- where elements are associated with sins and make both concepts richer through this.

[@arghscuffelbut3226]

Slashing, piercing and blunt damage interactions also help

[@TheCreapler]

I just started listening to that beef and Dairy podcast, and so far pretty funny, thanks for the recommend.

[@lostmarble540]

nightmare reaper generally has a basic elemental damage system, but shortly after unlocking the upgraded grappling hook it introduces a bunch of enemies with electric attacks and it's around this time you learn that getting electrocuted temporarily disables your grappling hook

[@Ellimanist15]

I'm really happy you mentioned Book of Hours because I was going to come down here and mention it anyway. You may need a notebook/word doc to play the game to its fullest, but the game is fantastic! Check it out.

[@xomvoid_akaluchiru_987]

Hey Adam! Take a break! You're allowed! If you ever need it, you can go take a break and maybe find some inspiration. Okay if Chao ever ends up in a position where they can't or no longer want to be a patreon with name shoutouts I'm going to be sad, I love the bit.

[@Frostgnaw]

Azurik: Rise of Perathia is my all-time favorite game. From what I hear online, it was Microsoft's attempt at a Zelda killer and every review on KZbin is just "camera controls bad 0/10" without actually playing to the end of the game. I can tell you with certainty that this game is incredible if you can get over the inverted camera controls. Your weapon is a bladed staff that has these four buttons on it, that correspond with the color scheme of the xbox controller and you activate the elemental effects of your staff via combinations of the elements or just one element (earth + fire gives lava damage, water + fire + air gives you a lightning shield that can repel and damage enemies). Each enemy has it's own weakness to an element and you learn what that element is based on the globes they drop on death (the globes refill your power, as each use drains some power from that respective element). The puzzles are incredible as well, such as one that spams over several zones that unlocks an entire area, so backtracking is also a part of the game. Overall, it's an incredibly fun and unique game and I wish it could be remade or playable on PC.

[@jeiaz]

Having suffered from a loooong depression and burn-out, it is my duty to cheer everyone I see going through this, however parasocial it might be, so take care of yourself, I hope it's going to keep getting better, and it doesn't last forever.

[@ShellworldGames]

I greatly appreciate the game list you include that you show footage from.

[@connordarvall8482]

I've played a TTRPG that has an element system that uses the Indian elements on the Chinese 5 phases systems that deliberately adds a 6th element as an intruder. They went a step further and said each element covers a layer of the universe, with the underworld solidifying into the ocean as the earth floats on top with earth and sky being separated by a jealous Middle Air and the sky belonging to the element of fire. In the game, fire's light obsession tends to make it restrained, acetic, yet idealistic. The air is depicted as being violent and passionate, the earth is depicted as being pragmatic and cunning, water is changeable and darkness is depicted as cruel, patient and hungry.

[@asgads]

it´s easy to understand and to visualize. you can get creative like having different psyches, morales, wind directions etc. but you will end up with something that visualizes symbols, shapes and use the primary and secondary colors

[@Yelficky]

In case it helps with burnout: I always look forward to your videos and genuinely think they're the best gaming YT content out there.

[@meajur]

It says something about me that I saw the thumbnail and thought, "TOO SOON!" Probably that I'm as old as the ancients to bring up a reference that old.

[@timpize8733]

Good points. And this applies to many things in games. For instance the ways we take damage or heal. Unless it's an alien setting or something, it's pretty much the same few ways as it happens in real life. The main difference is that it's not always as instantaneous or efficient. So using recognizable tropes makes sense. Even spikes have become an overused trope, I guess because apart from lava there's not much else that can hurt when you walk on it (and a piece of Lego is too dumb).

[@Celis.C]

Burnout is such an insidious thing to go through. Please take good care of yourself, my friend 🙏 Big respect for your Patreons for supporting you through it, truly worthy of their shoutout!

[@IAmTheAce5]

I like the Grounded system of elements that are based on ‘flavors’- salt, mint, spicy, and sour, just the kind of thing bugs can be affected by.

[@estebangomezllata9642]

Shout out to Epic Battle Fantasy IV with the lava level being the first one and the forest level being the difficulty spike in the later half of the game. That really makes it quite memorable compared to other rpgs.

[@Theraot]

3:38 Not nonsense: States of matter Earth -> Solid Water -> Liquid Air -> Gas Fire -> Plasma

[@LimeyLassen]

Moisture is the essence of wetness

[@Delmworks]

Where do non-Newtonian liquids fit?

[@marykateharmon]

@@Delmworks The Fifth Element of the Aether

[@rinarina6247]

Paradigms are also useful because knowing them allows you to subvert them in interesting ways. The entire concept and story of Shadowbringers, widely regarded as one of the best FF stories in history, is based on the simple twist that light is the enemy and darkness must be restored.

[@voidgods]

Expecting elements to work like they do in "real life" is natural. Trying to change this would be like developing a "2nd person" game or thinking of a new color. Impossible because our brain needs to be grounded on some real-life physical expectations

[@SpentAmbitionDrain]

This would be an interesting switch up. Select a culture like Innuit and make fire heal, ice do the most damage, earth be very valuable etc.

[@Autista_Atipico]

So... The Elden Ring Dlc swamp...

[@RolandTheJabberwocky]

14:44 For real though, why is that stupid doll one of the hardest fights I had in P5? It's weirdly powerful for such an early pseudoboss.

[@Dragonpit]

I was off work for the day once and was standing surrounding waiting for my ride when I got to thinking about these same elements. I had an epiphany. Earth = Solids Water = Liquids Air/Wind = Gases Fire = Plasma The four basic elements are the four states of matter.

[@haydentempest3874]

My brother is a big fan of the Beef and Dairy Network podcast! Extremely funny 😂

[@Omnifarious0]

I'm always happy to see a video from you, no matter how long it takes. I might think differently if I was actually paying you though. Hmmm... I probably should do that someday though, since I find your stuff pretty valuable.

[@itsal2477]

Fair play to Infamous Second Son for mixing the elements up: smoke, video, neon, concrete. I appreciate that

[@fracture4047]

I really liked how Divinity: Original Sin 2 handled elemental interactions. You had to use items and pay close attention to your environment when using the elements. Especially fire. Many things tend to combust

[@modrock373]

Idk if you do video suggestions, but I would love to learn about how some games get around making the player look things up. Like in Dark Souls, if the player doesn’t follow a guide or look up items, they would probably never do any of the cool builds in the game. Same goes for Minecraft and some Minecraft mod packs like All the Mods 9, where if you don’t look things up, you’re screwed and lost

[@SolousOrneas]

In every game I play. If I have access to water/ice magic, powers, weapons, or abilities. I am required to express myself through it.

[@iminumst7827]

Very good points, but I also think there's a lot of value in realism simulation done right. By adhering to much to paradigms, we may confuse them with reality. There are many cases where misconceptions derived from games and movies carry into real world knowledge. For example the misconception water can put out grease fire is a seriously dangerous one. Sure it may be a little more complex to be realistic, but sometimes it's not, and it's also concerning to me that realism isn't intuitive for a lot of people. And I think curious people are naturally more patient with knowledge derived from reality compared to fictional paradigm breaks, because they know when they leave the game the knowledge won't immediately become irrelevant. So all things considered, I'm going to continue making my games without reliance on paradigms like elements or classes. If a few impatient players get mad that they can only ignite dry wood and not wet wood, or are confused why being sneaky doesn't involve leather armor and crouch walking, so be it.

[@kobunnight]

I would say the Mega Man series has done a great job at exploring alternative paradigms... _to varying degrees of success_ ... But they also mix in some more common paradigm associations in their boss weakness order just so players have somewhere to start. I just wish they were more consistent with it. Ice was strong against Fire in the first game, but it switched to being weak to it in the 6th, 7th, 8th, and 10th. Then it switched back to being strong against it in the 11th. That's why I prefer when element typings aren't stronger or weaker than others, but are _mutually reactive_ . Elements that are polar opposites either cancel each other out or are equally effective against their counterpart. It takes some of the guess work out of knowing what's effective against what and helps mitigate problems from cropping up like in the Pal World example where one ends up outclassing all the rest.

[@noahandrulis9077]

12:58 the instinctive revulsion of seeing the Magic color pie rotated slightly is incredibly unfun to experience

[@mostdefinitelynotaguineapi7566]

We still use the basic observation that informed the classical elements. Solids, liquids, gases, plasma - earth, water, air and fire are just the most salient members of each category, so it was easy to think of them as 'pure' or basic forms that everything else is made out of. Paradigms don't have nothing to do with reality (however terrible some of them, like Myers-Briggs, might be. Okay, scratch that. Some of them, like astrology, have nothing to do with reality.) For instance, the nature of light makes it a suitable analogue for wisdom and moral good, and the nature of darkness a suitable image of the treacherous.

[@HectorT52]

I freaking love elemental magic systems, as far as I can remember I always have. My earlies related memory was seeing a movie that mentioned astrology and the elementa related to the constellations and I found really cool. Since then it is always some of my favorite tropes specially in videogames no so much in books and movies anymore.

[@horusemerald97]

Great video! Another flame-based healer support is Millio, from League!