How Good Are the New Support Companies? | Tier List Götterdämmerung

[@magnus4945]

If they simply added another slot for a 6th support company a lot of these "bad" support companies would suddenly be seen as very good.

[@VijoPlays]

Yeah, but I like it that way. Decisions are always fun, otherwise you'd just strap 90% of all Support Companies on your offensive divisions and call it a day

[@magnus4945]

@@VijoPlays well consider that the game launched with 5 support company slots, but since that time the number of support companies has over doubled. I think it would be a good time to add a 6th, perhaps that unlocks at the same time as the extra brigade slot from the doctrines.

[@Bardomp]

​@@magnus4945maybe add a sixth slot if the army width/size is big.

[@infiniminer7677]

this is the way, add more support slots as the division size increases

[@FourtoslavGenrikhovich]

just the second row, just the second row...

[@Hoi4withRobin]

I think you got a little confused. Helicopter Recon gives the best movement bonuses overall. And is therefore the best. Cant use Rangers on tanks as they have a 6.4km/h Limit.

[@Anton-m8x1z]

Support companies dont affect division speed, you know? Otherwise you couldnt use support arty with tanks

[@truesurvivor585]

@@Anton-m8x1z They, do... Theres a reason why you use mot recon and not cav recon, or why when you make flame tanks you make them faster than your main tanks

[@Para0234]

@@Anton-m8x1z Support companies definitively do affect division speed. Except its not like line divisions where they have a specific base speed cap (like infantry that locks your division speed to 4 km base speed) but a speed bonus on terrains. And helicopter recon has the best bonus of all the recons.

[@Hoi4withRobin]

@ Try it out yourself. Yes Support Arty,AA,AT have no Limit but many Support Companies have a max speed, Every Recon Type as a different limit depending if it uses horses, trucks, tanks or helicopters. In the new DLC they added Super-Heavy Howitzers and Self Propelled Super Heavy. Why would you use Self Propelled? Because it has a 12km/h Limit over the 4kmh Limit of the regular Variant.

[@PadaV4]

@@Anton-m8x1z Some support companies don't affect speed and some do. Recon companies are some of the ones which do affect it.

[@nausimur6035]

the landcruiser is banned/ removed in the new MP meta mod(HMM by chrom) as you can stack air attack and get 500+ airattack on it , which would be broken as everything above 400aa kills all attacking cas( cas plane loses are calculated by (AA /400 ) % of those planes)

[@Kenshi_2900]

ayo?

[@scyobiempire4450]

Who needs state-AA when you have the *_WUNDERWAFFE LUFTVERNICHTER LANDKRUISER RATTE!?_*

[@kacperixplayer]

@@nausimur6035 broken melter of cas? late game is viable? ayo!

[@RobbiusBossius]

what, elwolf got replaced?

[@nausimur6035]

@@RobbiusBossius yes the modder stopped modding/playing a while ago , the mod was managed by 2 other guys with the new DLC as u need to update a lot they remade it , starting from scrat to keep the modding clean , old elwolf is still there

[@KingofDiamonds117]

"People don't play past 1945 normally." Am I the weird one for playing most of my games past 1950?

[@CirBam24]

My most fun games was after 1950 so you're not alone

[@adda5230]

Yes you are

[@АлександрБот-о2о]

I always try to lay past 1020, but never have enough time for this

[@95DreadLord]

Many of my games without mods go past 1950 including my current game with Austria

[@Valentin_126]

What NASA computer do you have? Even into 1943 the game starts lagging like hell

[@sld1776]

The MedEvac ends up losing less trickleback as they are upgraded.

[@spindash64]

_and_ it gives extra reinforce rate, iirc, so they're giving a few extra bonuses here or there

[@a12934]

The breakthrough on armored signal companies per tank battalion makes it objectively better, imo. Initiative is a nice to have, breakthrough wins battles.

[@kacperixplayer]

Then why bother with signal companies at the first place? Just take medium flame company for better effect. It's not like in single player you care for it.

[@ArariaKAgelessTraveller]

You can always bring both, they are not exclusive to each other ​@@kacperixplayer

[@serek123-r4x]

This comment makes so many misscoceptions. It only add breaktrough per tank batalion around 0.2 per batalion. Which means you get 2 breatrough with 10 tank batalion. That's nothing. And breaktrough doesn't wins battel. The attack stats does, in case of inf soft, in case if armored hard. Because soft and hard is rolls number which Will hit organisation. Breaktrough is just defense against this attacks when you are attacking. Basically breaktrough doesn't Wim battels. If you face mass mob infantry on MP which pure reinforce wall. No matter how much breaktrough you have, it won't work because you need soft attack. Breaktrough makes your division last only longer in combat, it's importsnt. But that's why TDs are meta, you need as much hard as possible, but breaktrough you just need enough to not instant die, and mostly against infantry because tanks has much lower defence than breaktrough so your breaktrough is basically "fighting with defence" of mech infantry in armored division (inf in armored division mostly gives Def, you need just to have more breaktrough than the defences so you get more cirts on them with equali hard attack. But again, if breaktorugh completly exceeds attacks, than it usuless to increase it futerał more, some level is required but 8k or 2k breaktrough, it won't change much

[@blablazockerable]

@@serek123-r4xWhere can I get more information to the „td meta“. I hear that alot but cant find more information on reddit or wherever. Or is it just simply designing a td and using it as your main tank or using a single high stat high armor td in your battalion

[@kacperixplayer]

@@ArariaKAgelessTraveller you have 5 slots to it, not 10. Logistics and flame company is must have on tanks - they'll either starve to death or underperform without +5 or +10% attack. You'll put either rocket or usual arty for cheap soft attack. Engineers seems to be classic good pick, even better with offensive ones available. Now for speed you'll use a motorized recon. Alt option are anti-air, you have focused solely on tanks, you need it badly; helicopters are good for viable bonuses - mainly supply; even that land cruiser don't that bad. Also what gives signal? Initiative? Why don't charge tanks first, pause and attack with inf couple hours later? Call me ignorant, but it is not viable.

[@kvassinc]

I noticed that the land cruiser has very high air attack values, especially with the radar. I think this could be a *funky* replacement for anti-aircraft artillery.

[@luthfihar3211]

apparently you can even exploit it to get over 100% air attack that could take out every CAS that's targets it

[@kvassinc]

@luthfihar3211 Lmao, it sounds so broken. What value must that be? Two main modules with radar give over 200, all together probably 700. Probably even 10 AA battalions don't have that much air attack, it's insane. Especially considering the fact that such machines would be the most vulnerable to air attacks.

[@catrielmarignaclionti4518]

@@kvassinc tbf they would be most vulnerable to air attacks bc no landcruiser irl had AA built into it, for a comparison it was considered suicide to do a bombrun on an american aircraft carrier by the japanese in ww2

[@bongcloudopening5404]

​​@@catrielmarignaclionti4518 true , especially since ships have a ton and i meant a ton of AA in them and yet they could barely kill enemy planes, as its mostly the japanese fighters that deals with them the most effectively. So it doesn't make sense that a land cruiser who is smaller than a light cruiser(ship) or a heavy cruiser(ship) would do any better.

[@cursedhfy3558]

As late game Italy, landcruisers are specifically amazing because you can get over 80hp with 2w tank divisions. Combining land cruiser and blackshirt support allows a very great division that you can assemble en mass that have truly awe inspiring stats to width. Earlier on in the game blackshirt +anti air support allows for 2w tanks that truly allow you to punch above your industry. This allows for a late game and end game version of 2w tanks that can keep up and provide everything you need if you want to turn around and declare on whoever you won WW2 with.

[@tylerhovind7187]

I'm pretty out of the loop with the last couple expansions, what exactly is the use case for a 2w division? Even with 80hp isn't the org hilarious low?

[@cursedhfy3558]

@tylerhovind7187 Quite the opposite, organization is based on average organization. Blackshirts give as much organization as a single infantry battalion and even more hp. So overall this will have more organization than a normal tank division.

[@bighillraft]

Maybe you could make tier lists for tank/plane/navy modules? I haven't seen anyone do that, and a lot of newer players would find it helpful

[@VijoPlays]

Not sure how different that would be from my existing guides, but I'll keep it in mind, thanks for the suggestion!

[@frauleinhohenzollern]

Was he complaining?.......

[@frauleinhohenzollern]

He even literally thanked him for the suggestion. Weird that you read that comment and interpreted it as complaining.

[@bighillraft]

@@frauleinhohenzollern who are you talking to

[@sld1776]

The Ratte--I wonder how it would perform in a pure mechanized division. Have a elite Ratte force.

[@DontKnow-hr5my]

Honestly, most likely good since Infantry with Ratte still shows to have low hardness

[@sld1776]

@@DontKnow-hr5my Support companies have zero hardness, alas.

[@DontKnow-hr5my]

@@sld1776 I am just confused because there was a screenshot that showed the hardness factor of the Ratte at 1000% pre-release

[@DefaultProphet]

Wait since when are maintenance companies bad? Stealing equipment is great

[@elitetripod4188]

If you watch his first video he explains it.

[@PadaV4]

That relies on the assumption that the enemy has equipment worth stealing. And you are using equipment to steal equipment, so why not just produce the needed equipment out right?

[@DefaultProphet]

@ Lots of equipment is the same regardless of country and free stuff gained by normal actions is equipment you don’t need to produce letting you produce better stuff, having stock for conversions, selling, lend lease. Free stuff > stuff paid for by my resources

[@PadaV4]

@@DefaultProphet Except its not free. You need to equip the maintenance companies yourself. The stuff captured from enemies is very likely to be old or bad. And it takes up a slot where a better support company could be assigned.

[@DefaultProphet]

@@PadaV4 Severely discounted not free then * good point. What the maintenance division captures goes first to their unit which is nice cause you're not waiting on re-supply even if the equipment isn't meta.

[@bradpitt5355]

SS trier can make some veterans lil uncomfortable

[@serek123-r4x]

This video contain one serious mistake. It ignore new parameter for division. "Recovery" - not recovery rate or anything which was. And it's not shown in division template only in tech you see it on armored mataince. Maintance in general is shit. But this thing has base 10% revovery, on 1939 you get 3% more, on 1945 you get 3 % more.... and on 1942 you get.... 30%, yes 30 %. On 1942 tech you basically have 43% recovery How recovery works? It just trickback, but on equpment. Reducting tanks looses by half in equpment neearly? If it works like game present you, it's at least usefoul company, maybe not strongest. But I think it can get it spot.

[@stormsand9]

that 1942 tech was a bug and has now been patched

[@tylerredforge5563]

the super heavy artillery is fun, i wish there was a way to have more than 2

[@VijoPlays]

*And a way to get it before 1942, without investing half your industry in it

[@thomasschmidt1452]

@@VijoPlays If youpaly as a major country, it's kinda easy task. Escpecialy if you have an university of the landwarfare on 1 January 1936.

[@VijoPlays]

@@thomasschmidt1452 You still need 2 Breakthrough points (and should get Flame Tanks before then, which docks another point)

[@thomasschmidt1452]

@@VijoPlays If you have an university of the landwarfare from the startdate, you already have 1 point. Get 1 more is kinda easy - just sign a scientist and research artillery (it is needed in every game). And also you don't need to equip flame tanks to have the % bonuses to attack - you will get them even if you don't have reinforce your division yet (it's a bug but quit usefull).

[@zakharbilozertsev280]

Just want to ask. did you took in consideration regarding the helicopters recon med evacs and logistic company that they provide more buffs upgrading them in the supply techs as well as they getting more buffs researching the jet tech. The same applies to armored support brigades, in solo runs, using these support companies for tanks only, you will never get a shortage of them using a 4-5 mils

[@bennyboyo9008]

Um you could be my field hospital... if you wanted... ❤

[@AliAli-bh8qe]

Rattle need a lot of resources but i think we can solve that with convert tech and multiple lines of it for produce and then upgrade it 🤔

[@OpexRL]

0:30 got me lol

[@colinius27]

same

[@LuizHenrique-zw5su]

Im using all of them for fun, not for meta

[@andromidius]

I quite like the motorised military police for occupation forces. They are cheap and give superior suppression. That is, if you can afford the additional research and military factory. But if you're in a position where you need lots of suppression you probably have that.

[@Panzerfanlol]

I made an all-heli small division with every heli company and 2/3 armoured cars +4/5 motor inf, it absolutely shredded the AI, hit up to 13kmh in the end I think (without using any commanders or army buffs etc, using USA), overran pretty much everything it broke, had major advantages fighting in rough terrain like Italy, it was really, REALLY quick flying over hills/mountains. I'm not sure but I'm pretty confident that they give you good terrain bonuses too also, you're wrong about motor mps, they provide a tiny amount of recon, give you more breakthrough than support artillery does i think and is EXTREMELY cheap, you'll only need like 2 or 3 factories on them your whole game and every div you build can have them if you dont wanna spend like 50 factories on motor for recon and support companies, same with helis and their support needs, super cheap, cheaper than trucks so you can replace the recon or medevacs with them to get more trucks off the frontline I THINK they also use less fuel than trucks too but i might be wrong, I know they use less supplies so that also makes them great for marines

[@seductive_fishstick8961]

That video ended bait at the start really got me

[@primusinterpares1482]

What would a good land cruiser template look like? 5x infantry or (even better) a tank template? Which support companies should be included in order to have an optimal template?

[@ColorGHD]

He came dressed professionally for this tierlist 🥶

[@marcorocchi6758]

5:30 Oh my god the Romania world conquest is gonna be even better with this one

[@gonozal8_962]

how are airdrop tanks still illegal, considering the garrison order (protect harbor/railway/supply hub/fort/victory points) exists (your L for not using it) and AI is better now?

[@ulikemyname6744]

The Land Cruiser is specifically a US thing as of now. No other nation can realistically afford the mass production of the Land Cruiser without going into an extensive campaign to capture these resources.

[@highadmiralbittenfield9689]

Germany does fine because it has shitloads of civs to trade by the time you realistically research Landkreuzers

[@ulikemyname6744]

@highadmiralbittenfield9689 trade with who? By the time Germany attacked the USSR, if they had not won WW2, they no longer have options available

[@highadmiralbittenfield9689]

@ulikemyname6744 Turkey, Spain, Portugal, Sweden

[@ulikemyname6744]

@@highadmiralbittenfield9689 It is possible but the conditions are not perfect.

[@nguyenhan2145]

​@@ulikemyname6744 who fight the USSR without capping the Allies, noob players???

[@pawezdziech7120]

Vijo, you still forget about Assault Infantry Battalion (for more: look at comments below your previous film about support companies).

[@VijoPlays]

If they ever get added properly, I can evaluate them, but it's similar to the Winter Logistics and the Long Range Patrol ones... Unless PDX adds them to every country, I will pretend they don't exist, since I'd rather spend my time doing other Focuses x)

[@-John-Doe-]

They provide HP without losing Hardness.

[@Avalanche_Mudder04]

@Vijoplays did you get a chance to try Stormtroopers? If so, what do you think about them?

[@montymechanizedmarines]

Brilliant - thanks. I had to rewatch and screenshot - make notes !

[@atomicLord97]

I managed to get 12 medium tank divisions, each 30 width, as Germany, each one with a landcruiser supporting it, by mid 1942 just because I wanted to see it in action. That thing devastates anything it is sent against.... but God Damn does your wallet hate you for queueing up 5 factories on that thing! I love a lot of the new stuff in Gotterdammerung, as a guy that loves artillery I've been flat out abusing the new railway guns, super heavy howitzers (and self propelled ones), and having a blast with it. but then again I am the guy that goes all in on Heavy fighters and tactical bombers so I may just be completely insane....

[@lacelessshoes2413]

What are your thoughts on the new German-exclusive (tell me if I’m wrong here) Stormtrooper support company? When I saw the dev diary originally, I thought it was an actual line battalion of unique infantry, and I was really excited since I love infantry based armies, but upon realizing that it’s an actual support company unique for the traditional German military path, I got some mixed feelings. Based on my quick glance, the stats look on, but since you compare these support companies in the larger picture, I was wondering what your thoughts were.

[@alexmannen1991]

does the landcruiser reduce base speed? or will it be a blitz on motorized at 12kmh

[@sireaustin]

It definitely lowers speed, but you can raise the speed while designing it. I think it starts at 5 base speed?

[@DontKnow-hr5my]

You could get it up to like 7 km/h if you sacrifice a lot of armorment and weaponry maybe higher but... yeah

[@luthfihar3211]

you probably can buff it out to around the speed of cav, but with that terrain movement debuff it will probably always be leg infantry speed at max

[@scyobiempire4450]

@@DontKnow-hr5my I got it up to 10 with the german fast tanks MIO

[@IAMASTRONGMAN]

I’m curious. How busted do the heavy artillery companies become with SFP and stacking them with support artillery?

[@dogeknight6000]

You should add a review about the nation unique support companies Like Germanys stormtroopers and Italys artitti

[@Cyanfox3006]

9:58 POV: Sweden

[@spindash64]

Iirc, the Med Evac alsp boosts your Reinforce Rate

[@tylerhovind7187]

Absolutely ridiculous that helis are now in the game seeing as how a helicopter in 1943 would struggle to supply a pizza delivery nevermind a while division

[@maxdoom3521]

Honestly they should have just added super heavy artillery and land cruisers as an actual division and make them proportionally powerful.

[@TheDaaaaaave]

In a world in which medium armor gives you the best cookie-cutter results across your entire army every point of IC spend on weird super-heavy egg-head creations is Ic not spend on fIghters and glorious glorious CAS. Better results, takes less money.

[@ztrax7133]

Heavy arty with mountaineers on Germany to break the Maginot 👀

[@LutheranKaiserboo]

I rushed the Ratte and managed to get it in mid 1941. It was able to crush the Soviet defense lined up at Moscow.

[@averywyatt-luth1642]

Bros aren't truly playing the game until they reach year 2000

[@rosehip_desu_wa4773]

I hit the sub button and not even 2 seconds later this is a gun pointed at me and I am told to sub

[@MasaruIgor]

Bro braucht einfach mehr Support. Grüße

[@xModerax]

These lists are good to find out where you disagree I guess 😅

[@Aszod96]

you missed Stosstruppen battalions. Going down the left side of the german army focuses unlocks the Stosstruppen Battalion

[@蔡林翰-v2m]

就像我說的，這些"超級武器"出場的時機不是太晚就是生產困難，在基本的戰局中沒有甚麼作用 絕大部分的人都會試著使用他們，即使戰局已經勝利 (毫無必要性) 除非像是我初次戰鬥一樣，沒有正確進攻，直到1941年才被義大利拖入二戰，1944到1948年都在俄羅斯與英國的夾擊中不停的進攻失敗

[@luthfihar3211]

i think the problem with helicopters is that the niche which it would work is also a niche where special researching the helicopter would not be as available

[@AnoSilly]

Anti-tank is must-have in multiplayer

[@bigbubbles6456]

The AI has also been going tank heavy in SP, I would recommend a few factories on AT the whole game.

[@huntersleepybrown2988]

i think they added some things so u can create a couple specialized divisions

[@croatiaball3038]

MP is op for garrison units, well if you're rich that is.

[@aeriawindsor4722]

It cost way less than you think, especially if you already have full slot cav division from profesional heritage.

[@colegilbert673]

I mean many of these new additions are experimental prototype technology, no shit of course it sucks ass.

[@fanis1414]

What a stupid argument.

[@alexmannen1991]

so takeaway is everything is bad except helicopter which is OP

[@InkusProductions]

Hey what is the mod for the division designer coloured icons and map

[@herc9275]

youre missing the finnish and brazilian special sup companies

[@Tommuli_Haudankaivaja]

Ngl, the land cruiser is kinda busted. It's not very good for the games most people play, but for me, who plays tiny nations, it's literally op. As Luxembourg, you can get 2-3 of these made before the Germans attack. You're unpierceable, have enough AA, and a good bit of soft attack. I even have tested it in multiplayer. To be fair, it was against my friend who has just 300 hours in the game, but still, he was completely unable to take Luxembourg, no matter what he tried. I think he could've been able to do it if he had 8 specialised divisions with enough piercing and all stats min-maxed for taking Luxembourg.

[@jedell]

I think you are being overly hard on the MP companies yeah you aren’t putting them into COMBAT divisions but MP companies really do save a lot of manpower by helping with suppression

[@merekem4635]

well this was definitely helpful

[@dazartim2809]

Inf germany build has a stormtrooper support company which is like mega op,had soviets capped before 1941 with inf only

[@One_Ch]

You forget a new flamethrower. Mmmm. Hans, put the Flammenwerfer! P.S. Landkrusier is basically a joke

[@JonasMix-n9h]

can u make the same video for statsmaxxers that dont care about production cost

[@WhoElseLikesPortal]

anybody know why the landcruiser goes faster over hills and mountains?

[@VijoPlays]

It just rolls over and flattens them for your Infantry

[@lordDenis16]

Bruh, you totally forgot about stormtroopers for Germany

[@lordyoda607]

i feel that ratte is going to be banned in mp due to how broken it can be.

[@icymcspicy6684]

Is there any reason not to use sh artillery, artillery, and rocket artillery support companies with superior firepower right side on singleplayer?

[@icymcspicy6684]

If we’re ignore tanks, of course. I’ve not tried it so I’m curious

[@DontKnow-hr5my]

We just need more support company slots

[@GreysonH98]

So I did a amour meme of land cruisers and superheavy tanks was so beautiful divisions melted

[@assaraan9407]

lets be honest 90% of the new dlc is ment for the role players. almost none of the stuff in it is worth geting wen you lmfactor in the amount of eith the amount of time and resorces it takes to get and half of the stuff is so late game you have probably alredy more or less won the game the notable aception is the flame tank

[@rainbowappleslice]

IMO opinion the new support companies are not meant to be OP they're made so you can mess around in SP and LARP

[@SupremeChampion-gc2wy]

I thought the point of using signal companies on tanks had to do with their buffing the coordination stat.

[@luthfihar3211]

yes, but on Single player that stat isn't actually that useful compared to other stat the other support companies can provide

[@xiuanis]

what's the command cheat for researching special projects?

[@VijoPlays]

sp_research_all

[@Sector-07-p5j]

Day 60 of asking Vijo to recreate german empire as danzig (any mod)

[@tristan3340]

i love you can u make a template guide

[@jonidymeti5396]

You should do Ratte only

[@VijoPlays]

Do I look like ISP

[@marcorocchi6758]

​​@@VijoPlays Kinda

[@human_fish3442]

9:27 whats wrong with having multiple lines of it?

[@VijoPlays]

Instead of being able to produce 1 Ratte every day, you'll produce 100 Ratten in 100 days (harder to reinforce/outfit a large army). Just a small difference for outfitting an army, albeit not a huge problem.

[@human_fish3442]

​​@@VijoPlays yea but mathematicly once you get it going its the same shit the only time I see it being differantly is if you seriously lack them but even then its not that big of a deal its just that instead of your divs always being 95% strenght they go down to 90% and back up to 100% witch still averages 95%

[@VijoPlays]

@@human_fish3442 It's just worse for starting your Ratte divisions. You won't be able to create them until the first one is finished and then you need to stockpile a couple, before you can be "safe". It's not a deal breaker, it just means you can't really speed up the process of pumping them out.

[@tartzmir7934]

I think these new companies simply need to be a copy and paste from the original parent company with additional stats, like for example armoured signal company keeps the initiative of signal company but also receive additional modifiers like increase breakthrough per battalion, at least then would it justify the additional IC cost

[@centvire7035]

Armored support too expensive, as resourses wise, and production cost.

[@Nickoteen0]

Hate him. Cant watch this

[@gognhere1307]

I pick maintenance Com every time, I like the increased capture rate, satisfies my inner loot goblin

[@bendonaghue3970]

You don't play a lot of MP do you?

[@ah6517]

will nicht hetzen doch mach lieber auf deutsch würde sich besser anhören und ja wär einfach geiler ...... weil so is nichts ganzes nichts halbes weist

[@getleansipmoney]

Shes beautiful

[@Seb420-u7s]

Just as always meta slaves.