Vince Russo - 'Vince McMahon isn't a creative genius'

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EC3 discusses how Bo Dallas may be an even freer creative spirit than Bray Wyatt in this edition of The Wrestling Outlaws. Vince Russo remembers his relationship with Vince McMahon and maintains that he isn't the creative genius that everyone believes he is. Dr. Chris Featherstone then moves the conversation over to the Hurricane vs. Russo spat on X over the latter saying he was better than 80% of the WCW roster. There's never a dull moment on The Wrestling Outlaws.
#WWE #BrayWyatt #UncleHowdy #VinceMcMahon
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[@gregsullivan5267]

Yea vince russo said he was a better character than 80% of the wcw roster, he didn't say he was a better worker. Good point 👉

[@mikeg2491]

He’s right, a lot of WCW guys were lazy and didn’t want to work on their promos. Compare it to the WWF locker room when all the midcarders like Godfather or Val Venis & the Outlawz were fighting to stand out and work the crowd on the mic, it was way more competitive. Ironically the best WCW promos were shoots like Steiner that almost got guys fired lol

[@godphoenix66x]

Vince didn't comprehend very much. Including his fanbase.

[@Liberty_Sword]

Mcmahon wasn't a creative genius, he was moreso a marketing genius.

[@Chaz4543]

He was a creative genius in the 80s and 90s but by the time we got to the mid to late 2000s he had completely lost it and his time was done. Buying and owning and defeating WCW was unironically the start of his downfall as a creative genius.

[@FAITHandLOGIC]

Wtf are you talking about? Vince ruined dozens of careers in the 80's - 90's with horrible gimmicks. ​@Chaz4543

[@russellcampbell3500]

​@@FAITHandLOGICso did other promotions. They can't all be stars you get that right. And wouldn't that be the fans fault for not buying into it? Vince gave people jobs how's that a bad thing? His personal life aside he's mad so many millionaires it's scary.

[@UFCWWE69]

@@FAITHandLOGICname a wrestling promoter that didn’t have any bad ideas lol. Even hhh has a weird fetish for small indy guys and also loves to push karrion Kross every other month even though he never gets over.

[@TheCaptainSlappy]

@@russellcampbell3500 You are partially right...a criminal who is just now getting prosecuted with a sheet as long as both my arms, to include murder, rapping, drug dealing, theft, kiddy diddling, and tons of other felonies, made people millions. By your same logic...Jeff Epstein was a genius that made so many millionaires it's scary. McMahon is, and always was, a 2-bit carny hack & criminal wannabe. You people really need to grow up past the cheap rube phase of life, and join the adults.

[@transparent1054]

You're right Vince isn't a creative genius he's a genius business man.

[@Oldschool1943]

obviously not from what happened to him and his decline when he was in WWE.

[@transparent1054]

@@Oldschool1943 Obviously your missing the billionaire part.

[@geneanthony3421]

Based on everything I heard, Vince's genius was about building the WWE machine and turning WWE into a global brand. It's a different animal all together. He's a boss. He's not the guy who will give you a great segment, his genius is building the system that turns John Cena into a merch machine and the face of the company. He's looking at things completely different. What Russo doesn't get is that the shows are just a vehicle to sell merch, sell PPVs, etc. If the segment doesn't work towards McMahon's long term goals he's not interested. Guys like Russo are there to feed him material to build off of.

[@casualtalk6512]

Vince not a creative genius but created the undertaker the most over supernatural character in wrestling also made the biggest wrestling event wrestlemania and sports entertainment itself. I dont think you can say hes not a creative genius come on now.

[@ElAssoWipe-o]

And Russo created the BEST version of Undertaker.

[@terranceburrs5832]

Russo is not talking about marketing or creating events like Wrestlemania, he is talking about McMahon not being creative in terms of putting the shows together. Also, you mentioned characters like the Undertaker, but how many terrible ideas for characters did he come up with and/or approve in comparison? For example, The Ringmaster.

[@mikedoux2521]

Eh. He came up with a million Undertaker type characters, and they went nowhere. The Undertaker would have been another failure if it weren't for Mark Calloway.

[@casualtalk6512]

​@@mikedoux2521 the concept of the undertaker was his vince was looking for the right guy to be him. Calloway wasnt over before the undertaker.

[@casualtalk6512]

​​@@terranceburrs5832 everyone has great and terrible ideas even russo as stated in the wcw doc. Yes his wcw creative was terrible but does not mean he always wrote bad shows. Vince put the shows better compared to anybody in the business that's his promotional talents I think your mistaking writing with promotion yea vkm might not be a very good storyteller or a writer that I can agree.

[@TheHerbinLegend]

I BROLIEVE!

[@markfroman738]

Me too!

[@theantone7476]

Vince McMahon may not be a total genius in creative at times but he IS The Godfather of Wrestling, he deserves all the respect and praise for making wrestling what it is today. I still stand by the fact he is innocent until proven otherwise

[@pilot8220]

NO he isnt and no he doesnt, Vince will only be publicly remembered for being forced to resign, dumaz

[@angryasswrestlingfan2720]

The glaze is insane. The man lost his mind for about 15 years booking the worst shit imaginable and damn near ruined the company and almost made aew a relevant competitor cause he was so bad at booking in 2019. But you went people to give him respect for things he did years ago even tho he’s an evil sexual predator with a massive ego .

[@ExpressDunlop]

Vince was incredible at adapting and is heel character is the best heel of all time, problem is he wasnt able to adapt after he was too much dominant, Russo was terrible. Russo was great at PITCHING ideas but TERRIBLE at being the LEAD guy because is writing made no sense.

[@TheNextStep851]

@@ExpressDunlop How did you come to this conclusion? His writing made absolute sense and the growth in ratings whenever he was given long enough in charge shows that. He would thread an A story and a B story coherently throughout each show and knew to end with a cliffhanger. Prichard, McMahon, Bischoff, Sullivan and Cornette never did any of that. The highest profile 'nonsensical' decision associated with Russo's creative from WWF or WCW was probably the Higher Power being McMahon, but at the same time that decision was made over Russo's head after McMahon decided against Christopher Daniels.

[@godphoenix66x]

That's good because he still needs moral support from shills like you.

[@GLPitt1]

Shane Helms is a great wrestler. Had a pretty decent career. But he's just a dummy. And is unable to take criticism. Also rarely gives anyone else in the business praise. If he was more intelligent and softened his awful southern drawl, he could have been an even bigger star. But no.

[@TLRCARNAGE]

EC3 sounds like MJF

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

That explains why EC3 just didn't talk even though he was an amazing talker.

[@ExpressDunlop]

he wasnt great in NxT... he had is chance hes overrated.

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

@@ExpressDunlop I remember seeing him in the old NXT as Bateman and he was fantastic. He had charisma, he had everything even at a young age.

[@deadbrothers8348]

Anyone that makes a billion dollars is probably a little creative… Vince was just fucked up towards the end of the

[@Chaz4543]

Pat Patterson was a creative genius but he gets shit on because of the ring boy scandal.

[@Thesportsobserver2738]

Just like Vince is a genius but he gets shitted on for his personal stuff like nobody gonna give Vince credit for the Undertaker but we gonna give Pat the guy who was messing with young boys credit get pat here even Undertaker mentions Undertaker when they talk about who created the character lol

[@V1LL1N]

except when it came to blackmale - still used the oldest tricks in & of the Booker. T. Rick Ruben is the Warren Buffett of creativity, could it be? Everyone hits a round of great points in this one!

[@ironmedsvr]

Heat, no heat

[@russellcampbell3500]

Your a heel because you wrote yourself a heel fool. You didn’t have to write in and you were tasked to. Exactly who did you get over. Reed flair was not over, it was a feel good moment, no one thought for a second he would be challenging hogan for the belt next week after. Like wtf are we talking about here.

[@juanel589]

Lol Such a desperate attempt for russo, to take credit for the attitude era again .. Everybody knows it was mcmahon BRO

[@cashman5355]

Ya'll should rename this podcast the salty boys club podcast..

[@detestor420]

Bro

[@russellcampbell3500]

Haha I know and the delusional theories and conspiracies. I just watched an episode where Russo says tony khan and Vinny Mac were partners in aew. Lol

[@carlosnn8150]

​@@russellcampbell3500iz called clickbait

[@russellcampbell3500]

@@carlosnn8150 nah click bait is a title. Russo genuinely talked for months about how the two were partners. He's funny but delusional

[@carlosnn8150]

@@russellcampbell3500 well he is a former wrestling radio shock jock, so wouldn't surprise me if he entertained conspiracy theories such as this one for views.

[@russellcampbell3500]

Ec3 and his facial expressions pop me every time.

[@shanepolimine2502]

Not that my Like matters. This episode was a good one.

[@WWE2KUNIVERSEELITE]

Vince ruined The Fiend which could have been the next Undertaker if it was protected properly.

[@kpimkpim349]

The fiend sucked. The fiend had every chance on earth to get to the point and never did. The idea of 'scaring' wrestlers in a simulated combat show is really dumb. Taker pulled it off cause he was a giant and didn't OD on the gimmick or make it about anything other than fighting.

[@carlosnn8150]

​@@kpimkpim349Taker did go deeper on the gimmick many times, however it is true he had better monster moves than the Fiend.

[@kpimkpim349]

@carlosnn8150 deeper always led to something or enhanced a match. If he's setting ppl on fire, an Inferno match was coming. If he's burying ppl, buried alive. Ministry of darkness leds to corporate ministry etc. Bray was just being weird for the hell of it. It never added to the story or match and never led to anything.

[@carlosnn8150]

@@kpimkpim349 i was referring to the more outlandish "new generation" taker that literally ascended into heaven once, but true that was an exception to the rule, like you say it was consonant w/in ring (for example the mysterious urn played a big part both in and out the ring). And agreed to some degree, which goes back to my main point, the Fiend's inring needed to at least be consonant w/ the killer monster vignettes, but was too lame/clumsy to take seriously; he kinda tried that w/the red lights but that was terrible execution; perhaps the match in the swamp coulda been the closest to achieving that, but it neednt have been that dark and poorly filmed, as if it was trying to be a rob zombie film. Even monsters w/ lamer gimmicks understood this, for example Boogeyman threw worms in people's faces and didnt go further than that (then again he was booked poorly and his skill didnt back his monster persona, so ofc he fizzled, but for a while he was over). And ofc successful monsters did it better, Mankind had the boiler room matches etc.

[@WWE2KUNIVERSEELITE]

@@kpimkpim349 its because vince altered the stories bray was putting out.

[@goldenserenity2385]

Hope EC3 isn't going through depression

[@Akil1998]

Uh like him or not Vince did create Wrestlemania. He is one. He may just not of understood where Bray was coming from in his old age.

[@rogermurray5582]

I ♥️ Bo Dallas Honor 🎖 Bother Memory Wyatt 6 Disaster Like Titanic Meets the Hindenburg First Time ⏲️ ⏳️ That Bad 👎 Dexter Lemis Look like Cartoon Character

[@scottytechNmore1]

Don’t agree with you guys politically but wrestling wise, one of the best wrestling analysis KZbin shows ever.

[@MrMegaManFan]

Coming from the guy who made David Arquette a world champion I don't take his opinion about who is or isn't a "genius" very seriously.

[@Chrissimpson-oo4qx]

I've watched multiple episodes of this and I still can't figure out who Dr Chris is or who etc 3 is the sad thing is I only know who Vince Russo is. I think Vince Russo should drop them and do more videos with people that folks actually can figure out why he's allowing himself on the show with people that that person doesn't know who they are. It's like Wanda's Eric bischoff keep appearing on the show with this other guy that clearly doesn't understand wrestling that clearly doesn't know what he's talking about I think his name is Conway. People like them it's just a what the time if you're as popular as Vince roots or Eric bischoff to be with them I'm not saying they're losers I'm just saying they're not popular enough to justify being on the show with them consistently you're not bringing them up you're not really doing anything for yourself neither.

[@shanepolimine2502]

See what makes this great is everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Thats what makes this world great. EC3 is dead on and he would know a lot more than anyone of us, Tyler or Bo which ever name you prefer. Should and in due time would have taken the Lantern (Ball) and keep the family Alive. Vince Russo is in fact that entitled to his opinion and yes he's absolutely right. People should feel lost right and look how much attention this storyline is bringing. Its beinging Eyes and Ratings. Its still being talked about that is what we want. As a fan (Mark) what ever you shall call me. Thats fine but as a Mark this is amazing. This wonderful and We Bo-leave in Howdy. Howdy.

[@ironmedsvr]

Vince I give you this one bro Heat No Heat t-shirt But maybe "heet no heet" But I'll give it to you bro! TSHIRT! It's true too, one week drew as heet next week no heet. One week they're heels next week baby face lol, heet no heet

[@TraeRock]

“The art doesn’t supersede financial gain” … that’s deep, man.

[@crumblepi]

why doesnt Russo write for NWA

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

*watching WCW 2000* ...and neither are you, Bro. I feel like Russo didn't think this through. He wanted the New Blood to be babyfaces but he was clearly a heel all the way through. He said himself he wanted to get heat!

[@JoeChillton]

he's a total fckin clown

[@carlosnn8150]

Yeah I think either Russo expected the audience to cheer him as a tweener face for joining the New Blood, when in fact the opposite happened? Or had to turn the Billionaire's into faces because they had the power to force that on him? (he would have mentioned it already, doubt it) Or he was just too in love with the swerve at that point? Who knows. Furthermore it didn't help that most of the New Blood wasn't charismatic, while the Billionaires still had some very over guys that were cheered no matter what. Specially in the WCW live audience, where the nWo had blurred the lines and cool heels were cheered all the time - which would have worked if they had cool faces to do a double turn, or otherwise cool faces to keep them feeling like heels. Just like the WCW side was left too uncool, much more so without Sting and others, the New Blood was left too uncool too, so VR had all the more reasons/excuses to swerve it and make New Blood heels (specially if their champion was the forever unlikable JJ, who even in nWo 2000 was too unlikable for the cool tweener faction it pretended to be - that said, at least he didn't get injured). That said, unlike nWo, the New Blood wasn't cool as either faces or heels. This line of thinking can apply to other storylines; it is also explained for example that VR choose Syd to be champion later, he was dependable (until the injury) and as a tweener he could go either way as needed. Sadly this came too late in Syd's career, his gimmick wasn't as fresh anymore. At any rate, in general WCW was a clusterfck. VR did much better at better ran companies of WWF and TNA, although of course he still had some dumb ideas, but at least in the others there were more voices in the room and less infighting. Still, we owe him at least some gratitude, alongside some hate of course.

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

@@carlosnn8150 The Millionaires Club had these great legends and The New Blood had these jabronis. They called it "New Blood" but in the group there was Big Pappa Pump who was no spring chicken. Neither was Shane Douglas. Or Chris Candido and overweight Sonny. Jeff Jarrett was no main eventer so him feuding with legends and beating them made no sense. And then there was a lot of green guys coming in straight from the power plant. It wasn't the most exciting package deal. They also had these sub groups in the New Blood like MIA Misfits in action, the Filthy Animals, etc.... I feel like the New Blood should have been mainly young guys that have been held down like the guy that were in the Filthy Animals feuding with the legends(and the Steiners would be with the legends). You could have had some confict cause the young guys are held down. So have Bischoff who would side with the Millionaire's Club do a promo in the ring with all the legends saying "how dare you question these legends, all you whiners, you are all fired!". So from that point on the MC would represent the authority and the young guys cause there would not be employees anymore, they would come out from the crowd causing mischief. And Russo would be with them. (He did a similar role in TNA with the SEX group). I think it should have been two clear groups, the legends and the young underpushed guys. With both sides having their own colors/t-shirt and own music. And then the rest of the roster could be in the middle. Someone like Goldberg for instance would be in no groups. I could see Booker T leading the young guys. Instead of being with the New Blood, I could see someone like Shane Douglas being this veteran that would be an ally to the kids. Cause he never reached stardom like the legends and fault them for it. That has always been an issue with Russo once he left the WWE: lack of structure. And that is why WCW 2000 was a mess.

[@alexanderson618]

Me either!

[@jaybrown2348]

I don’t think Bo is a creative genius I think he’s using ideas from bray.

[@stevejamieson8468]

The crazy thing is the Bray Wyatt gimmick was an updated and expanded version of Dan Spivey's Waylon Mercer character. Even their father, recent WWE Hall of Fame inductee Mike IRS Rotunda even said his son collaborated heavily with Dan for the character.

[@shanepolimine2502]

You got my like Russo.

[@Imxlnt2]

Well, he did kind of have the idea for how the wwwf could change

[@casualtalk6512]

Creative works in different ways Russo is thinking from a writer's pov vm is not a writer vince mcmahon is creative in business forming plans and ideas that will make things a success in the long run. Vince might be a pverted deviant but not a genius that's bs.

[@patrickbevelock2171]

No hes not.

[@josheisert8380]

I have to disagree. As creative as it may be it has no place in wrestling. That's my opinion of course. We are mimicking the sport of wrestling so it should stay as close to reality as possible. None of the super natural gimmicks go anywhere because at the end of the day you have to get in the ring and wrestle. And that is where the super natural gimmick falls apart. You can do all this super natural stuff yet in the ring somehow you can't stop an arm drag or a hip toss. It's just always a build up to nothing. I said before the firefly fun house was awesome and could have been it's own show but not on a wrestling program. The undertaker being the exception to the rule. I didn't even like him exhibiting super natural abilities because it gets exposed the second you lock up. However with today's fans who the hell knows.

[@ElAssoWipe-o]

* Sees the record low ratings that McMahon has caused * No it's a fact that McMahon sucks at creative.

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

I don't mind only when it's not over-the-top. It worked for Taker and Kane as well.

[@carlosnn8150]

Ole school rasslin style doesn't put asses in the seats anymore. That said, i agree entertainment style shouldn't be overplayed either, whether supernatural or otherwise. The Wyatt gimmick was less believable more so because his boring "fat rookie" inring skills didn't match with his killer character, plus questionable booking. Undertaker and Kane did have some great monster moves to go with their characters.

[@mikedoux2521]

Vince became as poisonous to his own company as Tony Khan is.

[@brandongonzales4063]

Vince was a genius but became old and stuck in his ways

[@willbontrager6209]

The fiend was over. Is over. You all are in denial that his "spooky" didn't work. Stop listening to the marks. And I guarantee you Bray dug the red light too. But they're right. Vince was not creative. He was a marketer who knew people.

[@carlosnn8150]

He was over, but needed to get better "killer monster" moves. RIP.

[@willbontrager6209]

@carlosnn8150 Yeah, like a Canadian destroyer. Get out there with that mess

[@carlosnn8150]

@@willbontrager6209 well not that, idgaf about that flippyfloppy stuff... but something a bit more unique than the same basic "fat rookie" moves plus the mandible claw ripped off mankind (then again fwiw the sister abigail was the least generic of them). More than that perhaps is the fact that he was clumsy/sloppy performing them, which is not such a good trait in a powerful monster.

[@thesolomind]

Go Mets

[@kpimkpim349]

Vince is the only man in modern history to understand what wrestling is, and he absolutely is a creative genius

[@Oldschool1943]

vince had a creative team around him those are the creative geniuses not vince.

[@412StepUp]

Vince Russo isn’t a creative genius either.

[@user-ih8fn1uz6y]

You're a Slapnut 🤪🤪🤪

[@terranceburrs5832]

He was the head writer during the Attitude Era and generated the highest ratings in wrestling history. The company was on the verge of going out of business prior to him becoming head of creative.

[@juanel589]

​@terranceburrs5832 yeah We all saw how much of a genius he was when he went to wcw...

[@terranceburrs5832]

@@juanel589 I'm not going to let you do that. Don't gloss over what I said. What about the Attitude Era? What about TNA having their biggest success under him? Let's not leave these things out to try to focus on WCW.

[@juanel589]

@terranceburrs5832 What has he ever done without Vince Mcmahon and WWE machine ?... He's on record as saying one of the reasons he left was because he wasn't getting the credit... He did not create one superstar in wcw or tna.

[@sixtwentysix]

What the hell does Russo know about creative people?

[@EarthdogGFX]

YOUR NOT CREATIVE GO WATCH SS98

[@sixtwentysix]

@@EarthdogGFX simp alert

[@detestor420]

Bro. Bro. Bro. Bro. Bro. Bro. Bro. Bro. Bro. Bro. Bro. Bro

[@BASEMENTWORKOUT-s2o]

Bro

[@allencollins5666]

I Can’t Believe Vince Russo Admitted That Vince McMahon Is Not A Genius After He Sent Him To WCW To Kill It. That Article On 10 Indisputable Reasons Vince McMahon Is Not A Genius. 1.)He Doesn’t Have A Very Good Eye For Talent, 2.)He Botches Foolproof Storylines, 3.)He Fails To Evolve, 4.)He Stole Talent To Build The Company, 5)He Created Many Many Awful Storylines, 6.) He Created Many Many Awful Characters, 7.)He’s Blind To Nepotism, 8.)His Ratings Keep Failing, 9.)His Outside Ventures Failed, 10.)He’s Inconsistent & Pays No Attention To Details. Russo Admit Your Flaws.

[@Akil1998]

Russo did not kill WCW. It was Time Warner not wanting to be in Wrestling anymore. Which is ironic now cause look which channels AEW is on.

[@Round1Fight.]

Come on now, the life sucks promo, Vince is definitely creative and there will never be another one like him. He’s of a time that doesn’t exist anymore that’s for sure. Oh and he works more than god himself 😂

[@Blackrain7920]

All lies Vince made wrestling what it is

[@JoeChillton]

Neither were you, Russo

[@Thesportsobserver2738]

If Vince not a Genius than who created the Undertaker 😂😂😂

[@Chaz4543]

Pat Patterson did.

[@Thesportsobserver2738]

@@Chaz4543 no all Pat g@y a$$ did was help develop Undertakers character but Vince came up with the name so you Vince McMahon haters need to give him some credit lol