What’s REALLY the best era for synthesizers? Part 3: 1984-1986

[@MonkeyUnit]

Thank you for putting this series together... and for putting yourself out there... and sharing your experiences, your opinions, and your amazing synths.

[@VincentPresley]

Thank you very much! I feel weird talking to my phone about stuff and that's why I awkwardly laugh so much. My cats also usually walk in and give me a weird look like "why are you talking so much? Nobody is even in here".

[@MonkeyUnit]

@@VincentPresley There is a positive correlation between cats visible in a video and the number of likes the video gets. BTW, at 15:00, you give what I believe is the best demonstration of the Crumar Bit One on KZbin. I would like to see a series where you focus on one synth and tell us about the pros and cons of each. Now I'm off to watch your "In search of the coolest synths".

[@VincentPresley]

@@MonkeyUnit Thanks so much. I did pretty in depth CS30 and modified JX3P videos. I really want to do one for the Moog One since it has so many terrible videos and so many people think they hate it.

[@robertlee1176]

Yes!!!! I’ve been waiting for this - thank you

[@VincentPresley]

Awesome. Thanks a bunch. I had to wrangle in Vulture Culture for demos. I was about to spend money I don't have on a Matrix 6 and K3. Not a good idea with a $10,000 vinyl bill showing up soon. Dang vinyl prices.

[@davidsharp3110]

1984 to 1986 was grey area for me. Lotsa competition then, I had a Kawai K3 for about 6 months in 1985 and ended up selling it as new, I couldn't gel with it. Another great video Vincent!

[@VincentPresley]

@@davidsharp3110 Thanks so much. I didn’t start buying synths until the 90s when everyone I knew was emo or mathrock and I was incredibly uncool. It’s very interesting over analyzing everything and breaking it down into these eras. It’s what I do. For a while some lady friends of mine really wanted to make me do a “drunk history” video about The Residents 50 year career. I can ramble.

[@davidsharp3110]

@@VincentPresley I have always been a big fan of the Minimoog. I hated the Moog Voyager Old School. Bought a MacBeth M3X and it was a goofy take on the Minimoog. I also bought a New CincyMoog from a guy named Don Martin who made a few before Bob Moog got his name back to make synths again. I just bought a Studio Electronics desktop synth and am very happy with it. Would like to see that Residents drunk history. I ramble also. :)

[@jps31008]

​@@davidsharp3110 I worked at Cincy Moog with Don Martin.

[@davidsharp3110]

@@jps31008 Wow, I bought one and he sent it in 1997. Were you a technician?

[@davidsharp3110]

@@jps31008 WOW! I bought a MiniMoog from him in 1997. Were you a technician?

[@candikrol]

Loving it! This is also my least favourite era for synths… you still make them sound great, love your approach! I’ve owned several from this era, really not my thing, I trashed a few DX’s back in the day, but I still love my ESQ-1 (over the SQ-80, it was too polished and clean) and I did like just pressing a button to get my (predictable) sounds for performing live, but I went back. I came out of retirement and it was the modern clones that got me excited again… Thanks for the videos, your approach, programming and playing is inspiring :) after watching your videos I go to the studio and start messing around, so thank you! Keep on rockin’!!!

[@VincentPresley]

@@candikrol awesome. Thanks so much

[@Johnsormani]

The first great sounding hybrid synth that I discovered was the Esq-1 in 1986. I can still envision me entering the little dealer shop and playing on this great synth and bought it on the spot. I had to wait some weeks before I got it but man I was so happy. I still own it today. Almost 40 years later

[@VincentPresley]

@@Johnsormani LOVE that synth. Mine came with the huge manual and that’s probably where I learned synthesis. I just fiddled with stuff on my analog synths before it. Also eventually learned multitrack sequencing from that synth. I upgraded to the SQ80 25 years ago and still use it as my master board and sequencer. I have a usb drive on mine for infinite sequencer storage and a custom cart that holds like 1000 patches or something.

[@Johnsormani]

@@VincentPresleyyes the manual was very good , teally taking you by the hand to create new sounds step by step. Didn’t see that with many other synth manuals . Also the transoniq hacker newsletter was great for advanced sound creation.

[@tracyharms3548]

When you started talking about the DSS1 I gave mine a pat as it is right next to me. It’s the only model I have from this era, too.

[@LDB3Music]

Kawai K3 from this era is a great one that is often overlooked.

[@VincentPresley]

@@LDB3Music and they are really cheap right now. Been really struggling to hold myself back.

[@LDB3Music]

@@VincentPresley I owned the keyboard first and sold it for the rack model. Still use it on certain things.

[@mitchelstephen7536]

I have a few synths from this era. An Oberheim Xpander, and an MKS-80 Super Jupiter with the programmer. The Xpander is rich and thick and semi-modular, it's my favorite. Sure the Rolands were used more on pop songs but that does't mean you have to program shitty pop sounds on them, the solo unison is awesome. For hybrid I have a Prophet VS, I tried the ESQ-1.. but sold it after I got the VS. Mind you, I got all my vintage synths before the prices went insane. Oh and I have a your nemesis.. a DX7. The DX7IIFD, I picked up for peanuts after everyone dumped them too.

[@tonylyons7711]

I will always remember my producer gave me his grey and black oberheim in 86 I will never forget because it broke my ribs trying to put it in the back seat of my car my car. It was a beautiful sounding synth but sadly it had to have constant attention as it was always breaking down..God it was so bloody heavy but the best sounding synth I have ever heard to this day... I ended up buying a D10 & a D50.. I kept The Oberheim although it was broken , I sold it for £2,000 in 2019. I now have a Rev 2 along with a korg monologue for Bass . My favourite synth band in the 80s was Japan!..David Sylvian..( Ghosts) I still think analogue is the best sound alot warmer. Digital sounds are very metallic compared to Analogue but I understand people buying digital because they are so much cheaper.. Thanks for the video..👌

[@drsamurai009]

Very cool series going on here. As you say, the SCI gear from this era all used the same chip sets and sound more or less identical, barring any OS differences. The Trak versions (Six and Multi) have a few neat tricks up their sleaves that for anyone looking to get into vintage gear without going broke make them worth considering IMO. Espen Kraft does a cool video showing off the Six-Trak kzbin.info/www/bejne/eGWrlJ-Qrbt0b6s Stacking 6 different voices in unison may or may not be your want/need, but the voice allocation of the SCI gear when running arps and/or sequences is pretty cool. For those of us (myself included) that have a room full of gear, it's not quite a need, but if you're just starting out or looking for a single piece of analog vintage to add, the "Trak" line are worth a look. As a side note, if you have the last Oberheim Matrix synths, the 6, 6R and 1000, along with the latest firmware chips, they respond to MPE. I feel like I'm learning my 6 all over again using a Seaboard to do Poly AT and MPE individual pitch bends. She's almost a whole brand new analog synth. Other than physical knob controls, she stands up to the modern Polybrute, UDO and other modern analog synths with MPE.

[@amethystlegion]

The hybrid synths in this era are actually some of my favorites - especially the ESQ-1 (even more than the SQ-80), but also Kawai and others doing cool stuff. Super interesting synths. Music-wise this era kicked off true electroindustrial and EBM as well. Nettwerk records was cranking out tons of great bands, most notably Skinny Puppy but also many others. Wax Trax had their thing going on too, really interesting time. Otherwise excellent synopsis about the end of analog. None of us wanted them. We were so glad to move on to digital and you could pick up the early analogs for pennies on the dollar. Crazy times.

[@VincentPresley]

I didn't realize there was a sound difference in the ESQ1 and SQ80. What's the deal with that?

[@amethystlegion]

@@VincentPresley There isn't! The SQ-80 brought more waveforms and aftertouch, IIRC. Plus the floppy. But to me the ESQ-1's keyboard (even without aftertouch) felt better - more springy.

[@Johnsormani]

@@VincentPresleythere is a slight difference in the Filter electronics , at least between the metal case Version and the sq80. I have both, I own the Esq sine 1986

[@amethystlegion]

@@Johnsormani Interesting. I had the plastic case.

[@Elektroshmok]

I always loved the analog resonating Filters My Roland S550 had. If you switch if off having earphones on its like the Death Star shuts off.;)

[@EstuaryMists]

The filters on the S-550 are digital, not analogue. Agree that they sound very good though.

[@Elektroshmok]

@@EstuaryMists Tank you I didnt know they where Digital but why then is there this spectaculous switch off Sound? Is it a digital controlled analogue Filter?

[@EstuaryMists]

@@Elektroshmokno, the filters in the Roland S-series are totally digital. If you’re talking about a loud thump when you kill the power to the unit, it may be because the transistor that was there to prevent that happening has been removed from the output board (there’s one for each output). It’s common for these transistors to get damaged on an S-550, which manifests itself as low volume/ distortion in the audio path, so it may be that someone has removed it.

[@stevehofer3482]

This video brings back memories. Until this year, the last new hardware synth that I bought was the DSS-1. Of course that wasn’t necessarily because there wasn’t anything worth buying. I moved, got married, saved up for and bought a house, had kids, bought them lots of instruments and music lessons, paid for their college, and finally, 37 years later, I got another new synth, a Hydrasynth Deluxe. Luckily software synths came out in the meantime, or I would have gone crazy. I have talked to a lot of people who, like me, went decades without being able to buy a synth, and that is probably why software emulations are so popular. It gives a chance to play with a facsimile of the instruments we couldn’t afford when we were growing up and living a “normal” life.

[@VincentPresley]

@@stevehofer3482 I get that. Unfortunately I really can’t stand vsts. I have tried many times since they first came out and they are definitely not for me. I’d rather play the cheapest keyboard I could find and run it through a bunch of pedals or something. Nothing makes me lose interest in music like a mouse, screen, and midi controller. I grew up very poor but have managed to do alright for myself, play with some of my favorite musicians, tour several countries, etc. I am eternally grateful to everyone that has given me an opportunity or supported me and my various music projects. I very often just stare at my studio and think about how crazy it is that I have been able to get everything. Of course not having kids is a major factor.

[@SacSynths_Jack_Z]

Synths using the same "voice chip" IC actually can have quite different sound characteristics. The Akai AX60 and AX73 both use the same CEM 3394 "synth on a chip" voice ICs, but they sound very different from one another. The Cheetah MS6 also has its own unique vibe. The supporting cicuitry and output stage definitely make a difference to a synth's overall sound. To your point though, the Max, Split 8, Six Trak, and Multi Trak are all quite alike sonically. This series is a fantastic breakdown of the synth "eras" - your choices on years in the timeline are spot on!

[@VincentPresley]

@@SacSynths_Jack_Z Thanks so much. Yeah the AX60 sounds a lot different from all those Sequentials so I was wondering about that. That makes sense. Thanks for the info!

[@magicalsynthadventure3216]

Hi, nice vid! If you need any help/footage with synths from 1989 - 1994 I have a tonne of them, too many to be healthy really 😂

[@christ5826]

thre great analog era died here but those crazies at akai released the fully VCO totasl radically experimental mighty VX 600 in 1989! insane machine, check that one out...

[@geoffk777]

I own an Oberheim Matrix 6r (rack version). It a genuine Oberheim, that sounds very classic and they're still fairly cheap. Unfortunately, it has some drawbacks--the input is DX7-style, it's mono (not stereo) and there are no onboard effects. Some people claim that the DCOs don't sound as good as earlier Obereim VCOs, but the DCOs still drift and need to be auto-tuned, so I don't think there's much difference. Worth buying, if you find a good one , cheap. Keyboard players of this era did want more realistic sounds, but, more than that, they wanted more complex, organic and interesting sounds. FM provided this, but it proved to be unintuitive to program and stil somewhat artifical sounding. The next wave of sample-based instruments (D-50, M1, etc.) really gave players what they were looking for in terms of interesting and complex waveforms to build on. With the notable exception of the Casio CZs, most instruments of this period were still quite expenive and the limited computer technology of the time was a limitation that makers struggled to work around. So this era is probably not most people's #1, but rather marks the beginning of a transition that continues to this day.

[@geevee7823]

This was a good period, as it forced everyone to rethink synthesis. Analog came back, but it's a constant rehash of the same concept.

[@guitarchannel5676]

Wasn't the DX-7 a partially reverse-engineered RMI Keyboard-Computer, from a decade earlier? (Except not nearly as cool sounding as the RMI.)

[@mack_solo]

DX7 and Emulator II, plus MIDI in general - the new foundation for the pop music henceforth. I blame the Ensoniq Mirage for what's coming up in the next episode - the ROMPLERdom of the late eighties 😄

[@VincentPresley]

A whole lot of general midi generic sounds are around the corner for sure

[@amethystlegion]

I'd probably blame Alesis and Korg more than Ensoniq there :)

[@Johnsormani]

Mirage was a true sampler , not a rompler

[@mack_solo]

@@Johnsormani And not just any sampler - it was the 1st sampler for 1000USD from which point onward all users/industry wanted to do was to play with real sampled sounds and were not interested in oscillator generators - hence romplers came forth. My comment stands.

[@Johnsormani]

@@mack_solo I am sure that the general midi standard was more the reason that manufacturers started making romplers than the mirage. Maybe you got your knowledge from Wikipedia ( which is wrong on the subject) , but the mirage doesn’t play any sample from rom ( read only memory) . I know the mirage since it came out and people would more often actually use it with their own samples , but since the Ensoniq sample library sounded great they were used as well. Everybody that wanted an emulator but couldn’t afford one bought a mirage at the time. I bought one of the first romplers a few years later , the U110.when general midi was agreed upon all major manufacturers started producing romplers , or putting GM segments In synths so they could be used as GM romplers. Not from Wikipedia, but my own knowledge from working with synths since 45 years

[@jamesdelrogers542]

The Profit six hundred actually sounds a little fatter than the profit five , A lot of people like it better

[@alienzardsketter.9076]

All the time is a good time for synthesizers I can play many insterments that are not synthesizers , but I much rather play synthesizers and I like hardwear synthesizers ,,,, and you look like a new and inproved version of Mic Fleetwood drummer of Fleetwood Mac I Love Fleetwood Mac only my favorite bands ,,,

[@VincentPresley]

@@alienzardsketter.9076 Yeah lots of cool stuff for sure. I also play other instruments and it’s funny because I was once a pretty darn good drummer but I have always had pretty terrible drums. I’m a decent guitar player and have decent guitar gear, and I’m the worst at playing keyboards and I have this over the top crazy awesome gear. But I’m much more into creating sounds than playing piano style stuff. Traditional players generally really dislike me and I think it’s funny. I’ve always just bought instruments without having any idea how to play them properly and I ended up touring as a bass player, drummer, guitarist, synthesist, and vocalist over the years.

[@thejollyjoker187]

Are these floating specks in the air, or is it some kind of post fx?

[@VincentPresley]

@@thejollyjoker187 ha. Yeah I noticed that once I saw it on a larger screen. Dust, pollen, cat ghosts, etc.

[@dustinmcgill9622]

Hey man what’s up I just missed it

[@graysynther2169]

Dude , unless you got some vid fx on yr video……you got quite a few Orbs !

[@VincentPresley]

@@graysynther2169 dust, pollen (big sliding doors), cat ghosts, etc. It’s all here.

[@BlackMan614]

A lot of hybrid junk in this era. I bought a Super Jupiter in '85 which was nice, at least in 4-voice mode. OMG... this also was the era of the digital drum machines like TR-505, 626 and 707 which I hate with a passion. The Ensoniq stuff was kinda cool - analog filter in the Mirage and ESQ-1. I remember the dude at the music store always trying to sell me a Kawaki K-1/2/whatever... never bit.

[@VincentPresley]

@@BlackMan614 I love the Ensoniq stuff. Still use a SQ80 as my master board and sequencer

[@amethystlegion]

@@VincentPresley Same, I regret not keeping my ESQ-1. I still know the guy I sold it to, should see if he's still got it.

[@VincentPresley]

@@amethystlegion I did that with my SQ80. Sold it to a friend at a rummage 20 years ago when I was "over it". Then he had screen issues and abandoned it in his basement. I bought it back a few years ago and fixed the screen but it has developed many other issues so I bought a nicer one a few days later

[@normdurkin6425]

the best time for analog synths is obviously now.. if you are aware of modular plus regular gear.. I own or have owned or played on everything from 1980 to now.. you didn't include the Prophet 08 made in 2008.. 4 Oscillators per voice if you layer A and B.. 4 LFO's.. the Morpho and Tetra were great.. my Pittsburgh Modular and Dreadbox Oscillators sound better than any oscillators in the older stuff.. even compared to the ARP 2600 my buddy has one.. then you can use any filters you want and can mix oscillators from different companies like I do for their strengths.. I especially dislike the mini moog.. the distortion is weird.. the actual worsted time was when they weren't being made perhaps from 1990 - 2000..

[@VincentPresley]

@@normdurkin6425 I have several modern synths I will get to in future episodes. Definitely some amazing synths. But none of them can sound anything like a Polymoog, cs30, etc etc. I also mostly prefer the build quality of the old stuff. But yeah, I’ll get there eventually. Next up is 87 - 90something (can’t remember right now)

[@normdurkin6425]

@@VincentPresley ..polymoog and cs-30 are very unique.. I had an old Kawai organ and a Hammond ..ran them into a 12AX7 tube distortion with multi effects.. right now you can buy a Cre8audio Capt N Big O for $99 or a Dreadbox Hysteria $130 and it sounds bigger and fatter than any single moog oscillator.. if that's what you want.. it's obvious different when you want polyphony.. sometimes the oscillators are too smooth.. the oscillators in the Prophet 08 cut extremely well in a mix and what else has 4 LFO's..?

[@VincentPresley]

@@normdurkin6425 yeah I had the Prophet Rev 2 and Prophet 12 and they could do a lot but I just didn’t like the sound. The P10 does less but sounds way better. The Moog One is my go to for over the top abilities. If I didn’t have a One I would have kept one of those Prophets and the Polybrute. But the One just kinda made a lot of stuff redundant. But yeah I’m a big fan of Dave’s stuff, especially the DSI years.

[@normdurkin6425]

@@VincentPresley my buddy has a Prophet 5 and an ARP 2600 .. I bought a Prophet 08 rack ($1200), 2 Morphos ($130 each used), and a Tetra ($400 used mint).. I think Dave was trying to prove a point with those before Sequential started turning out bucks.. the Rev2 have different oscillators VCO vs DCO and the Prophet 12 was obviously a digital hybrid( for digital it hard to beat the Opsix).. my favorite oscillator is the Pittsburgh Modular waveforms complex oscillator.. the moog oscillators are too smooth for hard abstract techno in my opinion and the moog 24db ladder is a bass killer.. I much prefer 12db filters..

[@VincentPresley]

@@normdurkin6425 Yeah, I'm not a fan of the normal Moog filter but the One has a ladder filter that can be lp or hp and can be 24, 18, 12, or 6 db. Plus it has 2 state variable filters that can be notch, bp, hp, or lp so there's plenty of options.

[@EdwinDekker71]

Juno 106?

[@VincentPresley]

@@EdwinDekker71 Yeah it’s a classic but nothing I need. I had a 60 that I sold for like 3k and don’t regret it at all. If I was going to get a Juno again it would definitely be a 6 or 60. They just sound better than the 106 to me.

[@EdwinDekker71]

​@@VincentPresley👍

[@bergsofcanada2757]

Awesome video but you were 5 or maybe 10 years old while this is going on

[@VincentPresley]

@@bergsofcanada2757 So? I have owned about 150 synths and have been recording and touring for 25 years. You don’t have to live through a time to like things from it.