Vintage "Old K" Cymbal Modifications - Timothy Roberts

[@lentzintl]

I never see any comments on your playing. You are a great player, with excellent feel!

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

Thank you very much!

[@johnmckenna1776]

Both of the cymbals before mods had nice stick definition, while the nod goes to the heavy one in this regard. The heavy ride had a roar or hum that tended to overtake the wash, while the lighter ride had a more mellow stick attack, while the wash was matching the bit of hum it had. If a drummer/customer is okay with modding an old K it's fine by me, as they're actually playing out with these cymbals not just keeping them in a case or closet. The after mod sounds from these cymbals is like an old V8 Chevy that needed a good tuneup & was given the TLC it needed to purr like a kitten. I think you made both cymbals more versatile, especially the heavy ride which could be used in different settings. Thanks Timothy, as always you do a great job breathing new life into cymbals both old & new!

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

Thank you!

[@MikeFasanoDrums]

I love what you did with both of the cymbals but especially the heavy. I thought the ping was a little harsh on the heavy before and now it's still defined but with a butteriness to it. Also the crash is incredible and the slightly mellowed out bell is really nice. I feel like a lot of people are lusting after ride cymbals that can do it all now a days and the heavy fits the bill. I think this will make the customer immensely happy.

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

Thank you! I really liked the result on that one.

[@paolobaratta5940]

Great job! Many thanks Timothy, like always, for youre very precious videos. The art of modification is a fascinating challenge and it takes courage to practice it with such precious cymbals. Paolo

[@dilankarun9172]

This is turning into one of my favorite YT channel's (You got a sub after the Paul Francis podcast). Your before & after "Mods" are fantastic. No question young man, you areseriously talented at this ! 😀. From the Ripley's believe it or not, A week ago I got a 22" K Con Medium Thin Ride Low Cymbal from a "distressed" seller at a pawn shop (They offered him $250 ! and it looks almost brand new). I offered him $300, he said his kid was sick and needed the cash. So I gave him $380 (Before anyone bashes me for taking advantage of him, that's all the cash I had in my wallet). Took it home and feels a bit washy or I dunno, hard to control ? Maybe its my skill level 😙 (Would prefer a bit more articulation). K-Con's aren't my thing, but I do like this Cymbal and its a keeper. I used some tape on the underside. I wonder if this is a candidate for a Mod ? Someone told me once you Mod them, they lose value ? (It sells at Sweetwater etc for $689 !). PS: I don' t claim to be an expert on Collectors Cymbals, I just play them ! 😉

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

Thank you so much! I really love getting to do this and I never stop learning. It's a labor of love! I know exactly what you mean about control. To contain the "spread" of a cymbal, a great way is to "over-hammer" the top surface and possibly add a thicker patina. This adds definition, control, and a touch of woodiness to the stick. I've done this style mod many times! The lightest mod I offer would do the trick! reveriedrums.com/shop/p/cymbal-modification

[@Assimilator702]

If it's a vintage cymbal, dont't mod it since it makes it virtually worthless. If you don't like it, sell it.

[@thecrippledrummer]

Wow. The lighter cymbal was a massive improvement! To my ears, it originally had a gongy overtone that made it sound nearly unusable.

[@KaiOwensDrums]

Love the mod on the heavier one but that light one hurt my heart a little. It sounded good afterwards but before it had so much life and that beautiful complex bill Stewart vibe which is my absolute favorite. That lighter one was one of the best cymbals I’ve ever heard before modification. But if the Drummer wasn’t going to sell either way, i guess it’s best she gets use out of it

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

I hear that for sure! The "life" in the top end was really nice and required a very light touch to not allow it to run away from you. It's something I wouldn't have touched if it were mine, but the customer really wanted it done. Thanks for the comment!

[@KaiOwensDrums]

@@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums definitely! But everyone has their preferences, glad you could make someone’s dream sound

[@regentsaquariums5692]

14:03 what's that green color hue on the cymbal? Thanks

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

It’s a patina that I use to dry up the spread/sustain of the cymbal.

[@christskingdom8950]

I have a 20” foundry reserve crash and it has to be hit way too hard to open up. Perhaps I could send it your way to have some work done? Small flat bell on these cymbals.

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

Yeah! A little lathing would be just the ticket to open it up. Here’s the link with more info on the mods I do: reveriedrums.com/shop/p/cymbal-modification

[@buddabirne4661]

Great job on the 2350g !

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

Thanks!

[@arbobs]

Good idea by the owner of the cymbals to modify the heavy one and good job! I do keep scratching my head over why he/she decided to modify the lighter one... In my ears its a really good one right from the start! But to each their own and if modifying an old k will make them more usable for the player, then that is the way to go!

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

Yeah that thin one had some nice life to it unmodified.

[@eddieavakian]

Hey Timothy. Love the vids! I can’t help but think that if those drummers didn’t like the sound of those Ks they could sell them for a small fortune and buy something else. The prices of those are crazy. Question: do you make a cymbal that would be similar to that lighter k? If so what would be the model and where can I hear it? Thanks brother. Great content!

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

Thanks Eddie! I suggested that to the customer, but they were given to her by her former teacher who passed away. They have a lot of sentimental value so she was never going to sell them. I have a series called the “labyrinth” that has taller profiles and a very similar characteristic. I can make one of those to sound very similar to this 22” K. Here’s the link to that order form! reveriedrums.com/customorders

[@eddieavakian]

@@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums sweet! Thanks! I’ll them out! On those Ks, I’m always torn between my collectors heart and my players mind. The player usually wins out tho. Thanks man!

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

@@eddieavakian You bet!

[@DaveZula]

Do you have any videos about swish cymbals and china cymbals? I have a 70's zildjian 20" swish that just sounds really dead with no sustain and I wonder if it could be opened up. I feel like the whole point of those is to have enough sustain to hear the rivets sizzling after you hit it, right?

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

Hey Dave! I posted this one recently (I talk generally about swishes in it): kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5Cle52Hnb-emKssi=-CACRb3zKooImWDg Sometimes they can be greatly opened up by lathing them thinner, but by nature chinas/swishes are really "choked" by the flange. My swishes have a very mild flange for that reason (keeps them a bit more open sounding)

[@DaveZula]

@@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums Thank you.

[@ARDrummer]

Nice work!

[@earldrum]

Hi Tim, I kinda agree with Eddie that messing with such a classic cymbals would not be my choice. But I get the sentimental value thing! Great video, BTW the weight of the first cymbal was very close to my 2014 22" Kerope. I guess that's as close to a vintage K as I was willing to go from the sound and price perspective. Do a lot of guys that but the late model Keropes send them into you looking for the modification? Also have you done any mods to the Paiste bronze 2002 or F602?

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

Yeah I’ve worked on a bunch of Keropes. Some really miss the mark… I’ve only done some 2002s. The different alloy isn’t as great with mods.

[@richardkemp5550]

I love your videos. I used to dream of one day owning a Spizz - but now I know that what I want is one of your Bill Stewart homage pies. How much are they, incidentally? But that aside - your vids are spiffing. Good show young man, (Yes, I'm English)

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

Wow, thank you! That means the world. I sell those style cymbals under the name "Labyrinth". I'll put a few in each batch drop but I also have a commission form on my website! reveriedrums.com/customorders

[@ronaldgenendlis6423]

I have old rock crashes can they be modified to be a little more jazzy sound sorta like the sound of Antonio Sanchez from pat metheny?

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

Yeah it's very possible depending on a few factors. Check out the info on this page: reveriedrums.com/shop/p/cymbal-modification

[@seppoinnanen5577]

That heavier ride sounded to my ear so last season dated 😅 I remember playing that kind of ride in my teens. You made the sound much more acceptable 👍. Overall, I would suggest that the guys playing in small clubs would give a try to turk type, unlathed cymbals. They have all the qualities that would make playing easier. I have many different Agop turks and I think they sound wonderful and blend well with the drum sounds themselves. Never too piercing or overpowering

[@drumcoachnyc]

I have the impression that people want to get rid of "hum" and some overtones because they are used to more generic sounding cymbals nowdays. So a lot of people want to get rid of the sounds that make these old cymbals or some Spizz cymbals so unique and special. Of course you did a great job. Now the cymbals sound like more regular modern factory cymbals. It's just clear that people want to modify those cymbals because they don't understand them. Another possibility is that they only play them at home and never take them on the bandstand, because it's there that these extra tones become so useful. Edit: I do understand that 3kg is way too heavy.

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

While I understand your point, I think there's degrees to which a hum or note is beneficial to the sound and when it makes the sound "ugly" or "garbage". Hand-made cymbals have more character (notes, hums, tones) than factory made, and these tones need to be blended using intention or the sound comes across muddy and annoying. Also, I don't agree that people change them because they don't understand. The drummer who owns these is a gigging drummer in NYC and needed them to be tweaked so she could use them on the bandstand.

[@drumcoachnyc]

Great answer! I don't think everyone who modifies doesn't understand it, but I think in some cases it is like that. And I also understand hand made cymbals vary and sometimes also have too much "hum" and some cymbals are too heavy. I have also lathed a heavy handmade cymbal so I could use it, so I understand that. I was just going from the sound files in the video, the real life situation can be different of course.@@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

@@drumcoachnyc Right on! Did you build your lathe?

[@drumcoachnyc]

Someone else lathed it for me :) @@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums

[@johnmckenna1776]

Just an FYI. There's a KZbin channel that Rick Dior has, and he's a professional drummer/percussionist. He has a video on the old K's and gives his thoughts & opinions on these most sought after Zildjian cymbals. His video is entitled " All bout the original K Zildjian cymbals". Let me know if you like his channel, thanks Timothy!

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

Rick is great! I’ve been meaning to go visit him. He’s an amazing player.

[@johnmckenna1776]

@@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums Yep he studied with Joe Morello for a while so yes he's a great player.

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

@@johnmckenna1776 So cool!

[@bryandrums32]

Do you sell CYMBALS? I’m looking for 22, very dark and very buttery, I like a nice crash, dark crash, with still some sick definition.

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

I do! I make them under the name "Timothy Roberts Cymbals" and they are available on reveriedrums.com. There's also a commission form on the "custom orders" page. I make cymbals with those sonic qualities frequently!

[@bryandrums32]

@@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums thanks for the link, I’m going to check it out, how much money are we talking for 22? It be awesome if you could make one for me for underneath $500

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

@@bryandrums32 Mine are above that. They take a ton of time and care using the method I use. My 22"s are $650.

[@bryandrums32]

@@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums np pal,,,,, I’ll start saving ,,,,, it might take me awhile,,, so sorry Tim….smh,,,,,, I know you put a lot of work into them!!!!

[@Dsullivann]

Hey Tim, what's your experience with istanbul agop 30th anniversary cymbals and what would you recommend for altering that cymbal?

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

I've modified many... They are usually a little unbalanced causing hums and tones. A bit of hammering to balance the tension and they sing with a greater clarity and control.

[@zebedefernandez]

Hey Timothy! If lathing on the bottom side loosens up tension - does that still apply to this cymbal which was already lathed on the bottom? Or in this instance the main difference in sound and tension is the weight change?

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

It’s a little bit of both. I also use a technique called burnishing that can tighten up top tension that’s been loosened from lathe work on the underside.

[@zebedefernandez]

@@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums very cool. Yep I reckon half of my cymbals need burnishing 😂

[@TheMartinbr]

Nice...

[@emanuelsartini5676]

i had one that ... 2124 grs new stamp 20" and i want to sell... i live in argentina

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

There's a Facebook group called "friends of Old K Zildjian" that you can post to!

[@funkygh]

Wow - messing with good old K's? Crazy! Both of them better before the mods....

[@Reverie_Cymbals_Drums]

It’s what’s the customer wanted. She wasn’t using them before and now she is! That’s all I care about.

[@dhmtbr2551]

🤐😄✌🏻