Vintage Turntable + No Preamp!

How to avoid a preamp in your vintage vinyl setup! Time to get creative!
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[@dmcintosh1967]

That wire you connected the ground to on the stereo is actually the wire for the built in FM antenna and you disconnect it when you use an external. It won't hurt anything using the built in antenna as a ground do to it being a wire that literally wraps around the power cord inside the unit.

[@MikinessAnalog]

on the metal clip that is folded on the power cord LOL

[@70mmgomp]

Great video ... I started working in HiFi shops in UK from 1971 and so it makes me happy to see you taking people new to home audio through these issues! Cheers Chum! Keith xxx

[@pcallas66]

Another note: You won't necessarily blow an input out by plugging the speaker out into a line level input, especially with a low powered unit like this. However, there is caution that when you plug it in, start with the volume at its lowest point and bring it up slowly. Between 9 and 10 o'clock positions on a lower powered combo stereo would probably be "safe". Try and bring it up to the same sound level as your other line devices would be if it were plugged in there and if it's distorted, either lower the volume or disconnect it.

[@xaenon]

The amplifiers on those old all-in-ones were usually not all that bad, believe it or not. Low-powered sure, a watt or two per channel typically. But the speakers that were supplied with these things were more often than not just garbage. It was a fairly common hack to deep-six the factory supplied speakers, and go find a pair of decent 'component system' speakers at the thrift store or flea market to replace them. And since larger speaker drivers are typically more efficient than smaller ones, they often were a bit louder, AND better sounding. I'm not impressed with audiophiles, but they'll tell you (correctly!) that it all boils down to the speakers. The best amp in the world can't truly shine with crummy speakers. Yeah, the gimmicky three-band 'equalizer' is kind of lame, but consider this: A 'midrange' adjustment was actually a pretty solid feature in audio gear back then. Most component receivers of its day only had bass and treble. I like that they actually provided a dedicated aux-in as well as the phono-in. Look, I'm not praising those all-in-one setups; just pointing out that they're not as bad as a lot of people think, and with one easy upgrade can actually do pretty well. As you indicated, you can often get 'em cheap, so it might be a good place for someone to start if they want to get the most bang for the buck. One of these all-in-ones, combined with an LP60 and decent speakers can be a viable stereo. And with the aux-in, you could even add Bluetooth to it very easily.

[@ccadam]

Larger low power handling speakers usually somewhat improve the sound from those types of stereos as they were designed to be matched with similar low powered built in amplifiers. Finding a set with RCA plugs on them for that type of stereo would make connections very simple for those that don't have patch leads or aren't handy at making up their own leads usually involving soldering of wires.

[@beninski707]

Hi there. I am pretty sure that phono switch is a line level input meant for turntables with a ceramic cartridge.as I don’t believe those cheap units actually had preamps built in to them. I noticed you had to crank the volume much louder than what you had the tuner at to get any sound from the TT. So just because it has a phono input doesn’t always mean there is s preamp. Candle and Concerto made turntables with ceramic carts back in the day that would be compatible more so with that Casio.

[@w7777777s]

Agreed. You are still not getting the proper RIAA eq needed for a magnetic cartridge and you are getting noise from the fact that your gain structure is wrong. A ceramic phono input is looking for about 100X more signal than the magnetic cartridge is giving it. So, you are using a generic amp as a sort of preamp by turning up the volume and maybe using that swell 3 band EQ to make it sound a little more balanced, but getting a lot of extra noise from the input to the output. If CD or tape works or you hook passive speakers directly up to the box stereo, you will find you are back where you started with CD, tape and tuner being much louder and having more bass than your magnetic cartridge turntable.

[@greggaieck4808]

Record ology talking about vintage turnablet with no preamp this cool

[@LilHoss]

I dug my old 15 year old turntable out to see if I could hook it up to my mixer, very low volume, your first tip about looking for a switch for phono or line saved me!!! It had a switch! 👍

[@stereomann83]

that wire on the back of the unit is the built in Fm Antenna. i think it's wrapped around the power cord inside to act as an antenna. I'm not sure how it's working as a ground.

[@danmatz8]

The ground wire if you’re using an external pre-amp goes from the magnetic cartridge turntable to the preamp itself and then another set of wires goes into the RCA inputs of your component system. Generally if the input marked “phono” has a built in magnetic cartridge pre-amp it will also have a ground screw right next to it. The ones that don’t have that screw, but are still marked “phono” are for ceramic cartridge turntables, such as the BSR changer. Many people had those into the 90s. So most tape/CD player units as well as my early 2000s Sony receiver are still marked “phono” but do not have the built it pre-amp for magnetic cartridge systems. Ceramic cartridge turntables don’t require a pre-amp, but often sound better when using a ceramic cartridge phono input. VWestlife did an entire video about pre-amping your ceramic turntable.

[@MikinessAnalog]

I believe that left "cross" FM screw doubles as a ground (being right next to the phono input}, while the right "cross screw" is the other half of the FM dipole.

[@vwestlife]

Yup, the phono input on this system is for a ceramic cartridge, not magnetic. And the wire sticking out of the back is for the built-in FM antenna, not a ground.

[@ccadam]

@@vwestlife that would explain why he had to turn the volume up on the stereo a lot more for the turntable.

[@nickbitten9910]

Love the tongue in cheek comments on some of this. Good video overall.

[@Recordology]

Thanks! Some people didn’t get it. 😒

[@pcallas66]

16 rpm is for talking book. It's actually 16 2/3 rpm. If you have the proper stylus for a 78 rpm record that was recorded in the mid to late 1950s, they sound absolutely amazing. I used to play my Avin and the Chipmunks Christmas album at 16 and it sounded like David Seville singing slowly and pronouncing the words strangely so it would sound normal at 33. I'm guessing that he used a tape console that recorded at 7.5 and 15 ips and recorded his chipmunk voices at 7.5 to play back at 15. If you're familiar with music, 16 2/3 rpm is exactly one octave below 33 1/3 and if you have a tape deck, each speed increment is an octave different than then next speed. I happen to play bass and I used to slow the tape deck down to figure out what Geddy Lee was doing in YYZ and the run in The Spirit of Radio.

[@Recordology]

Yes I was speaking tongue in cheek - we have covered all four speeds extensively.

[@xaenon]

Paul, perhaps you should clarify the type of needle you're recommending. I know that in the 1950s, 78s were being cut for microgroove. But the way you phrased that might make it think that a typical 3-mil '78' stylus is what you're recommending. 16 rpm records are typically cut for playback using a 33/45 type stylus. One notable exception would be those discs made for the Chrysler Highway Hi-Fi (don't play them with a standard needle, kids - it'll chew 'em up quick!). Seeburg 1000 records were cut for a smaller-than-typical 0.5 mil stylus, but can be played without damage with a modern STEREO 33/45 stylus.

[@jro7075]

Hello to Record-o-logy havn't seen one of those old music systems in many years wow like I said MANY ntimes you have the best THRIFT store EVER!!!!! I was watching you show which is what i do often when relaxing s o far I will say you have not disappointed ,the glenburn you were using for show and the brief history on how they stated I can add to that from what I remember reading the original founder of BSR was let go by the co itself saying If I remember correctly that he was too old so they let him go so thats when Glenburn came to be thats why they seem the same ,from what I read he was giving BSR some competition and that the record players he was producing were a little better than BSR so they took him back that I found so fascinating and why I rarely see many glenburns out there JRo

[@stevesstuff1450]

Fun video! 👍 FYI; you connected the turntable ground lead to the unit's internal FM antenna! There is a grounding point directly to the left of the antenna screw that already has a random wire hanging off it..... remove that wire, and connect the turntable ground to that screw instead! I'm not sure that connecting a grounding wire to the internal antenna lead is such a good idea!

[@pcallas66]

On the back you have your 300 ohm and the connector you didn't want to connect to. I am not sure, but I do think that your other wire is the ground terminal for the radio, although it's not labeled as such. If you have an ohm meter with a beeping continuity, open up the back and find the chassis and measure from that terminal to the chassis, if it buzzes and you have very low resistance, then that's your ground.

[@thefamilydad8635]

That’s one way to do it. I managed to find an Optimus receiver at a thrift store for $5-10. It has features I don’t use and drives my 28” Fisher 3-ways nicely.

[@pcallas66]

The Compact Disc Digital Audio emblem came on both of my component CD players from the early 1990s. One was a Realistic, and the other one was a Technics.

[@ccadam]

I always thought that logo was a patent or compatibility verification. It's often on DVD/Blu-Ray players and any disc player drive as they're all backwards compatible with CDs.

[@MFRiley]

Question for the experts: Considering AV receivers have pre-amps inside them, could one connect a vintage turntable to a vintage receiver and have everything work properly?

[@Recordology]

If the input is labeled “phono” yes.

[@michaelelsy2209]

You connected the ground to the built in FM Antenna.

[@Odessia-ij5ys]

Lovely the music very 1970's

[@01chippe]

That was the built in FM antenna, not a grounding wire.

[@adrianandkatrinadove203]

i did wonder that if anyone had a casio unit,they could improve things to make it all separates,by getting a good saw and sawing through each section....making the individual separate components...Glen down the road went to the local record store,but got burned when they told him he was too old to play 45`s and 33 1/3.....he`s 78 by the way..nice guy....that`s a great way of sorting the issue out cheaply...sounded pretty good i thought.

[@xaenon]

Not worth the effort, and typically it all hooks together on a single circuit board anyway.

[@ralphreinhardt6020]

Preamp , all the kids are going in for them. 😎👍

[@shellac4682]

A better way to do this: get one of the tiny Radio Shack amplifiers: STA 150, 155, also marketed as Optimus and RCA. It gives you a phono input with a choice of magnetic or ceramic cartridge, and RCA outputs to take the signal to another piece of equipment. Makes a great compact pre-amp. BTW, most of the modern stuff you test drips with perceived value and even less quality than your thrift store Casio.

[@xaenon]

Great minds think alike. In fact, those old RS amps do quite well on their own. The factory rating for them is only 1.8 watts per channel, but they're built around an LA4440 chip which is actually good for up to like 5 watts per channel. An SA155 and a pair of two-way Aiwa bookshelf speakers from a thrift store is my computer's sound system. And it sounds pretty darned good.

[@shellac4682]

@@xaenon Yes they are very good on their own for a small room. And you get a mono/stereo switch, ground ing post etc. I use one in my main system both to provide a preamp for an extra turntable and extra inputs to use a reel to reel etc.

[@705johnnyboy]

by the way your videos are a godsend rite now ,my wife and daughter have covid and im a house bound caretaker for them and going a bit crazy lol....they keep calling out for food etc

[@rashadnagi7531]

I got spoiled as a kid. The turntable i had when I was a kid I inherited from my mom. She had had it since she was about sixteen and said she got it at K-mart but all I ever had to do was hook up the speaker wires if i remember right.

[@Pinkslothvibes]

What how cool I was wondering how to up my pre-amp game!!! Great info

[@Recordology]

Thank you!

[@arnoldtolker3505]

Wieder schlauer geworden! Vielen Dank!

[@dmcintosh1967]

At my local flea market the have a Casio stereo for sale and let's just say this stereo makes the one you have look like it's a high end. For the cassette deck the stereo use one of those cheap personal cassette player mechanism that can only play and fast forward. One thing I have from Casio is portable battery powered electric typewriter from 1984 in its original box.

[@SONIC-BOOM-TV]

I'd rock that Casio stereo like it was 1999.

[@that_laughing_hyena]

Heyy are you planning on reviewing any moving coil cartridges?

[@Recordology]

If I ever find any sure.

[@PanteraRossa]

As cheap as the insides of a 30 dollar phono preamp may be, you gotta think it's even cheaper in these all-in ones since they're adding so many other bells and whistles. This is just when comparing bottom options.

[@705johnnyboy]

i have a vintage musical fidelity preamplifier but i found a cheap one in a savers for 7 bucks au that sounded very respectable to ,ebay is a great place to find them as well

[@louoldschool7047]

that white wire is an internal fm antenna, when in doubt, take the back off and check

[@greggaieck4808]

Record ology your streo receiver with two tape player and CD player is cool

[@dirtyths]

A pre-amp is a line-stage, what you need is called a PHONO pre-amp, or phono stage.

[@Recordology]

In the context of turntables they are the same thing.

[@dirtyths]

@@Recordology A turntable doesn't plat by itself, be it with an RIAA phono preamp or not. You still need a real pre-amp stage and power amp. So no, in the context of a whole system, they're not the same thing.

[@user-sb8sf3qx7k]

Liked the video. What album was that?

[@robertkeefer1552]

Vintage audio on the cheap. Getting back to the ways of my youth.

[@2cozmick25]

Love listening to my lps, been doing it for decades. My only or biggest problem with the new equipment is that it's just to drab I like the old style you know silver withknobs and switches blue, red lights it was more pleasing to the eye. I liked the bells and whistles. Ya I know nothing to do with pre amps.just thought I'd throw my two cents in

[@bluesfoxgrey6883]

16 RPM are used for old speech records, also audiobooks for blind people were 16 RPM. And also you can listen to Seeburg records on this machine) These are 16 RPM too)

[@Recordology]

Yes indeed! We have done a lot with Seeburg records and various 16 RPM machines

[@robertcabuto3284]

If you find a vintage DJ mixer, that'll work too.

[@Damaniel3]

"Perceived value" - also known as "a mug's eyeful" in the UK due to Alan Sugar of Amstrad fame. Take a cheap piece of electronics equipment and put a bunch of lights and doodads on it while pricing it lower than the competition, and the uninformed buyer has it in his cart (and then his car) well before he realizes he got had. To be fair, that Casio unit isn't as bad as the garbage that Amstrad was spitting out in the 80s, but it's the same idea.

[@jmi5969]

Nice demo of "what's a ground wire" in the end.

[@Madness832]

That "input out" label (15:50), on the box preamp, was really messin' w/ my head!

[@grants7390]

16 rpm would actually be a great option when ripping records. the lower RPM reduces surface noise and then you just speed it up in post.

[@Recordology]

Very good idea!

[@Odessia-ij5ys]

Use the chassis as ground

[@Odessia-ij5ys]

No problem with pre amp if gotta Amstrad

[@michaelmcclelland2896]

Nice. That’s how I would have done it. Great video.

[@jameshogg11]

Just goes to show (once again) that you can enjoy this hobby without needing to spend a fortune.

[@bertiebassat5545]

Fun to watch, but think it’s too short term a fix, be better to get an amplifier with phono on thrift and some speakers, I don’t think anyone would want the Casio on display either, it’s a clunker. What about doing videos on thrift setups purchased at different prices points, maybe a 50-100 100-200 etc

[@QoraxAudio]

5:05 Nah they can get as expensive as you want - for example, my SPL Phonos is about 1800. Don't just buy something random. The ART DJ Pre II is a nice one for about 50 bucks. It'll sound better than any built-in preamp, like the one in your Casio stereo system. *If you really HAVE to skip buying a phono preamp, you should be using software.* So, record your record, open it up in something like Audacity, apply the RIAA equalization and amplification to the recording. You can probably do this realtime during playback too using APO EQ. 15:11 When I was a kid, I always thought phono was the same as phones, but italian. Lol. 19:00 One of the radio terminals should be grounded, so you'll probably be able to use that one. Probably the best option.

[@davidmorgen4558]

Hummmm?The Green cable on the Glenburn is a grounding cable to be hook up to the phono section on the back panel, Kind of obvious?......I would ditch the Glenburn an go for a quality used table from the likes of kenwood & Harman kardon..

[@SuspiciousAra]

haha, that crosley is actually an audio technica kit rebranded :D

[@Recordology]

Actually it’s not… It is made by Hanpin turntables just like most of the audio technica.

[@sonlighter01]

Interesting! Thanks.

[@liang3102]

Loved it

[@michaelfischer6984]

Preamp

[@Recordology]

Where did you see reviews of the one in my hand?

[@flipverweij7134]

Why not use the Casio build in power amp and hook up some decent speakers?

[@stereomann83]

that casio looks nice though. probably better then the cheap stereos made today. i'm guessing you didn't get speakers with it. but any 8ohm speakers should work fine and would probably sound better then the ones that came with it.

[@xaenon]

Absolutely it would. The factory-supplied things were almost universally horrible. And based on the gimmicky vibe from this thing, I've little reason to doubt it.

[@therustyduck5400]

I just got a Duel 1019 turntable, can't I just plug it in to a vintage Pioneer or Maranz receiver? Thats what I'm looking to purchase next. Do I still need a preamp? Thanks in advance.

[@absinthedream9668]

I'd imagine it would sound better with the appropriate speakers wired to the unit?

[@michaelb4512]

Can i connect my victrola vta-65 to a cd player and get sound from my victrola?Thanks!

[@hahaahah7214]

That thing is nowhere near the quality of a $100 phono preamp nor is high wattage. They may say 1500Wattd pmpo but that usually means around 20Watts

[@jassdoit71]

My amplifier is JVC A-S3 Stereo Integrated Amplifier so is the phono input is it for ceramic cartridge or magnetic cartridge bcoz i only getting right channel speaker output while the left channel just fuzzy sound

[@Tunguska2008]

Thank you for the video. Can you please give me advice? My 2000s Aiwa has phono in but it's engraved in plastics that it can't play turntables that has no equaliser prebuilt. How can I play it however? Only by using external amp as a middle "man"?

[@Recordology]

That’s strange… Try it and see what happens. If anything, it will just be too quiet and if it is, you just need to add a preamp.

[@edwincancelii2917]

Or even a digital watch.

[@MrRourk]

Hey don't take away my justification for getting a McIntosh

[@Recordology]

Hahahahha

[@Recordology]

This device is no threat to anything McIntosh I assure you.

[@tripsadelica]

I normally enjoy your videos but this one really left me cold. I will dot-point why: -"Old" does not mean "bad". Even the cheapest all-in-one bookshelf, or midi, systems of that era made for big companies used decent Japanese components (even if made in China) and there was attention paid to getting decent sound out of the units. The power supplies were excellent and would outlast the forecast usage life of the units. Nowadays cheap electronics with store brands, etc, use Chinese OEM manufacturers who, in turn, use cheap-ass capacitors and chips made in China. Chinese capacitors are notorious for leakage and Chinese power suppliers fail with great regularity. -If you knew a bit more about basic electronics you would have recognised that little pigtail connector as the ground. -Using a soundbar via the headphone jack was just silly. You should have grabbed a pair of passive bookshelf speakers and hooked them up. If the OHM level matched then the sound would have been superior in every way. -Amenities like remote control were still quite a selling point in the late 80s and early 90s. You have obviously forgotten that most separate component hi fi amps and tuners were all manual control, so exemplifying the fact that a unit had remote control was a valid selling point. -Again, separate power amps or tuner amps of the period normally only ever had bass and treble tone control. Having the ability to tweak the midrange was a bonus. -Casio only made a limited run of audio systems before going back to the stuff they knew so well but in the 90s their bookshelf stereos and handheld tvs were quite the thing. No disrespect intended but I just wanted to point these things out to you.

[@Recordology]

Ya, I said that completely 'tongue in cheek' of course. As you know we love 'old' equipment going all the way back to my 1917 phonograph.