Vinyl Grading & Pricing Demonstration | Talking About Records

In this episode of Talking About Records we continue our series on "How to Open a Record Store" by demonstrating exactly how we grade and price the pre-owned albums we sell at NTX Vinyl. Take a peak behind the scenes and learn what we feel are important factors when determining the condition and value of an album.
✶ Talking About Records is presented by NTX Vinyl, a local, independent, chain of community based record stores in the DFW area.
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🎵 Intro music credit: Bensound.com
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[@aa5az423]

This is a freaking master class in vinyl sales. I really appreciate it.

[@NTXVinyl]

You’re very welcome!

[@chriscoulthard7282]

I have a used record store in England and this is exactly how to do it. I love that sober experience, and frankly the real world knowledge that you exude. Sure we need a little internet help sometime, but as you prove, it's only to get the price point realistic... You're demonstrating the fundamentals of how we do it successfully, give the customer a good deal and keep a reputation for fairness and quality. Awesome...

[@NTXVinyl]

Appreciate that!

[@DelmarToad]

I always recognize the stamp immediately since I was a member of that very record club many, many years ago. So many records for only $0.01!

[@richardcoash6534]

Back into vinyl after years away. Have had some guidance and been working into Discogs. VERY helpful vid, not just grading, but navigating and using Discogs. Thanx!

[@NTXVinyl]

Glad it was helpful!

[@kristennorth3268]

We are new record store owners (new owners of an existing store; I've commented on this series before) and it's so gratifying to see that your process is pretty much identical to ours. And you come up with the same prices we would. I actually do go into a lot more detail in terms of getting the exact pressing plant (I've memorized most of the marks) because the previous owner said that was very important, but when most the of records end up being $3-$5, I'm really reconsidering putting in that much time. It can take 20 minutes to identify the exact right Discogs record. And then the time involved if your pressing isn't even on Discogs and you feel obligated to enter it! And again, for an end price of $3-$5, which is most of our used inventory. We do also run everything through the Spin Clean, but that doesn't feel like as much of a waste. More of a value-add. I was curious about your comment near the end on retail-ready. That could be an interesting episode. We're the only store for 90+ miles, so we put out pretty much anything people bring us, condition-wise, as long as it's playable. But I can see being more particular when you'll have enough inventory regardless. If that's what you meant by retail-ready.

[@NTXVinyl]

Glad to hear it! And you’re exactly right in regards to the time it takes, especially if you’re only making a couple bucks. Gotta move fast in order to actually profit - otherwise all your time is eaten up grading/cleaning/pricing

[@patrick3926]

I think that’s where experience and expertise comes into play. Knowing the good and popular records and artists allows you to shortcut it. That said..I am no expert so I don’t know any shortcuts. Wishing you best of luck in your new store!!

[@mday8776]

Same boat over here, but unless the record is in very poor condition, I put the time in just in case it’s a rare earner! Best wishes to you on you shop adventure! I was excited to see those dividers poking out from your inventory. I just made some for our inventory stock shelves, but might go a different route for the browsing bins. Standard dividers are expensive!

[@HMSiegal]

Have learned more from NTX vinyl videos than all other vinyl you tube experts combined.

[@NTXVinyl]

Love to hear it!

[@mattfic7319]

Great video and insight on how you grade and come to a fair price. "Knowing your audience" is so important like you said. Appreciate the work you put into NTX. You're killing it!

[@NTXVinyl]

Thanks so much!

[@johnmontalbano5769]

😅😢

[@johnmontalbano5769]

😅😢

[@Sortovaltias]

Very educational, thanks

[@johnreuter4916]

To narrow your search even more you can use the run out codes for Mastering and Pressing Plants etc. Then you can get to the exact disc quickly. You will find that you may have a variant that still hasn't been listed yet buy you can tell what group it belongs with. Sometimes those details, especially who mastered the record can matter to collectors. First Pressings and Promo records are generally prized as well. I have 4000 lp's and I have been adding them to Discogs for a year. Got about 1000 done and only 3K to go. I was very slow at first but can find most albums quickly now. The biggest sellers are the biggest pain as they were pressed in every plant when sales were booming. For example there are nearly 500 versions of Rumours of all types. Narrowing it to Vinyl gets you under 200 to dredge through. You better know some of the details or you will waste hours. Discogs has lists of all the run out codes. Very useful.

[@kenjarrell4123]

All true but remember, G.I. isn't pricing for sale on Discogs or other online outlets but for his local stores, so pinpointing the exact variation may not be important to him as the customer has the ability to hold and inspect the product for this minutia. The goal here is to derive a reasonably fair price.

[@janedoe6350]

@@kenjarrell4123 Agreed.... and in the quickest time possible. I have often found you don't always get a return on a dead-wax matrix number unless it's iconic. These are $20 to $30 records. Remember, Discogs is a data base. Sometimes the matrix number is not listed and you have to submit a contribution to add to the data base.

[@stephenenders2066]

Very intelligent and well explained. 👌 saved me alot of time..this is more fun than doing books because you can just look up a code 😂.

[@NickP333]

If I’m asking a certain amount due to rarity, collectibility, etc., I clean it on my RCM, then play test it and put in an archival inner sleeve, but keep the OIS. That becomes impractical if selling a large amount, so just grade conservatively. For a record with a lot of different pressings, just as you mentioned, look at the pics of the label after entering in the catalog number. There’s tiny differences between pressings, and that’s the easiest way to decipher which one you’ve got. I tend to never grade a record as mint (M), as even brand new sealed records may have a tiny issue, and again, instead tend to grade conservatively. Also, see how many “want” vs “have” the record can be a factor in pricing. If already opened, put the record behind the cover, essentially when shipping to avoid seam splits. Well done vid. Thanks 🔊😊🎶

[@mday8776]

Thank you for the excellent content and the awesome interaction here in the comments. You are a national treasure!

[@NTXVinyl]

I appreciate that!

[@linussvensson8005]

Hello, my name is Colonel Sanders. And this is NTX Vinyl!

[@LibraClassic]

Awesome vid, G.I.! I'm a hobbyist, and I sell CDs and Vinyl on Discogs. Not only did I learn a thing or three (LOL), but this video also helped validate my grading process (my thought process and approach to pricing are LITERALLY the same!). I only just noticed it was almost 48 minutes long, but I never noticed - because I was sitting here grading right along with you! Instant sub!

[@NTXVinyl]

Awesome man!

[@patrick3926]

Amazing video and advice! Thanks k you for sharing!

[@stephenenders2066]

Thank you very helpful.❤

[@vergevinyl]

Thanks for the video very informative!

[@NTXVinyl]

Sure thing! Thanks for watching

[@doodahdavesrecords4319]

Thank you so much GI amazing tutorial! Big help

[@NTXVinyl]

Happy to help!

[@jmfloyd23]

Great video, very informative! If it were me I would keep the inner sleeve with the record since it came with the album.

[@NTXVinyl]

I do sometimes, but not if it looks dirty or rough around the edges - but that’s only completely blank paper sleeves. If it has any print at all it typically is kept

[@fudgewithanm]

Thanks for the awesome walkthrough! What software do you use for your labels?

[@NTXVinyl]

I just created a template to work with standard address labels - and use Keynote/Powerpoint

[@loathsomewind]

@@NTXVinyl Thanks, I was wondering the same thing!

[@johnnyringo8174]

When I Iook for a vintage record on discogs or eBay, I look for NM copies preferably still sealed and completely ignore VG grades. Most of the time I will wait until one becomes available that is sealed before buying a record that is not considered at least near mint. Also, filtering out overseas copies is not a good idea if you are in the market for a record. I have ordered records from Japan that were delivered in just a few days while I sometimes wait weeks for a seller in the US to get my order to me and usually the one from overseas winds up being better than advertised as far as grading goes. Just something to consider when purchasing a high grade or sealed record.

[@mccarthyd6603]

Good stuff....picked up a couple of pointers with Discogs👍 Question...what is the best way to spot warped records? I know the Rumors copy you showed it was obvious... I am getting killed at stores after cleaning then seeing a warp after looking and examining and not catching.....one of my shops said to try and hold level and find a reference point and align? I have not found a system yet and I would say 20% of the used albums I am purchasing have a slight warp that I missed. Keep up the great work on the channel...

[@festersuncle6298]

I respect shops that allot a discount for bulk. Especially for spenders. Strict Goldmine grading is the only way to go for NM. Anything VG+ or under can be scaled. "Looks VG but plays NM".

[@mammitnaamalle4603]

Great generic information. The cleaning method seems a little rough though. One should always use a vinyl record brush first, so the larger dirt particles remove smoothly off the record. Scratches and hair lines always come from microscopic sand etc. between the record and the inner sleeve. It acts like a sandpaper. If it's light dust that comes off easily with a gentle blow, then you know it's OK to clean it with a cleaning wipe.

[@NTXVinyl]

Great point!

[@bobrobertsmd1657]

Still have Sabbath Seventh Star? Love that one!

[@vintagemostwanted4557]

Thank you for all the great info! We appreciate you taking the time! I would be interested to know more about your label making process. Also, which pos/ software would you recommend? I am looking for something where I can manage inventory and will integrate with Discogs , ebay, or website. I found a few but not sure which would be best. Thanks again for any help!

[@NTXVinyl]

Pirate Ship is an excellent solution for shipping labels. It auto syncs with Discogs and eBay specifically. Super easy

[@Bootradr]

I kind of came in after the live stream began. I'm glad to see that what I've been doing is pretty much the same thing you are showing the viewers. I did finally get an ultrasonic cleaner but I have not put it together and used it yet. I know they don't help with things like fingerprints but they do help clean what's in the grooves. I got a SpinClean or whatever the name is cleaner earlier but never used it yet. Do you think cleaning with the solution and rag will do just as good of a job as something like the $70 - $120 SpinClean cleaner? I know that name is probably not right but it's that common yellow non ultrasonic cleaner I'm talking about. Do you also sell on Discogs and how do you find specific sellers on Discogs? You can't type in the sellers username and search for sellers on Discogs apparently and I've yet to be able to find a way to look up certain sellers. Maybe I just need to try again but it makes me think I'm missing some sort of search that allows you to look up the various screen names used by sellers. I'm going to try to search for NTX Vinyl and see if it pulls anything up but when I tried in the past it didn't so I'm not expecting it will. I'm guessing you do sell some on Discogs? Brian in Fort Worth 🎶

[@NTXVinyl]

Sure thing! www.discogs.com/user/ntxvinyl

[@Bootradr]

@@NTXVinyl Thanks for the link GI and I added you as a friend so that I can more easily find what you got for sale on my Discogs app now :-)

[@peterfredin4195]

Great video! I wonder about your thoughts regarding grading old vinyls from for example the 60s differently than to vinyls from the last two decades. You are suppose to grade them equally no matter of when they were produced. I feel sellers often give older records some "discount" just because they are old.

[@NTXVinyl]

I never do that. I hate the “well it plays great for a 50 year old album” mentality. Age has zero baring on condition to me personally.

[@FrankieLovesElvis]

I currently have an original 1956 copy of Elvis Presley’s first album. I am told that I own a $150 from one collector. Then, I took it to my local record shop and the owner said, “You have a $200 copy. The price and value is so hard to differentiate. Can I send you pictures and get your price? Thanks. 😊

[@scottbarnes5110]

So, do you have a goal on how many you research and price per day? Great info!!

[@NTXVinyl]

Depends on the day. I typically price 3-4 crates per week. So that’s about 200-250 LPs

[@ellzif]

Thank you for making such informative content🙏 When you mention “feelers”, how do you determine whether you can “feel” the scratches or other imperfections? Do you feel them through the cloth you’re cleaning the record with? I’m assuming that you don’t touch the imperfections directly with your hands.

[@NTXVinyl]

You have to touch the records with your fingers in this case, to determine the severity of the damage

[@jamesrobertson9149]

​@@NTXVinyl Do you think it is a good idea to touch the scratch with your fingernail? Probably that way you are transferring less grease from your finger. However, there is possibly a risk that your fingernail could make the scratch worse.

[@GustavoScafuro]

I have a rare Mutantes OG mono record from 1968 on sale. How to fairly grade the condition of an old record as that? The vinyl has some surface scratches, been only one feelable that produces a pop during about 20 seconds of the first track. Overall it plays well without jumps or skips and the background noise is minimum. The sleeve is well preserved with very few little cuts on the edges due the thin paper used back then in Brazil, no other marks, risks or ring wear is present. I graded as VG+ for both vinyl and sleeve, but I know that is questionable. More than 2000 collectors wants this particular copy on Discogs, and the marketplace price range from 180 to 800 dollars. What do you think?

[@NTXVinyl]

Hard to say without seeing it. With anything that valuable I typically insist on sending photos and/or video of the album to someone before they purchase it on Discogs

[@GustavoScafuro]

@@NTXVinyl yes, I do that even providing private link for video with record sampling. But my question is: can a 50 years old record follow the same rule of grading as a new one?

[@NTXVinyl]

@@GustavoScafuro I think so. I hate the "it's in great shape for a 50 year old album" sentiment. NM is NM, NG+ is VG+, etc - I don't care of the album is 50 years old or 50 minutes old. Same grading scale applies IMO.

[@GustavoScafuro]

@@NTXVinyl gotcha! Thanks for your input, its much appreciated.

[@willhouse]

I'm sensitive about pressing plants sometimes because I have a family connection to Terre Haute & if I'm gonna buy a disc that's supposed to be from that plant, I really want it to be from that plant! For issues like this, I presume it's always best to message the seller before buying?

[@willhouse]

FYI to the uninitiated: the Terre Haute plant was owned by Columbia records & it pressed vinyl for decades. Its discs usually have a *T* in the deadwax, often separated from the rest of the digits in the runout coding. Sometimes there's also a T printed on the label's matrix number. 🤓

[@NTXVinyl]

That’s very cool! I bet it certainly makes the hunt more in depth

[@markkillion8980]

You could message the seller. I point out that in Discog there is almost always a Terre Haute listed (with a Columbia or Epic label).

[@tomdemaline8869]

Where do you purchase your outer and inner sleeves from?

[@NTXVinyl]

Most record distributors carry them in bulk. Bags Unlimited does as well.

[@jerrysamet9092]

this was especially interesting - helps me think more concretely about selling my very large (15k?) record collection. One thing not covered - what qualifies a record as NEAR MINT??

[@NTXVinyl]

A nearly perfect record. A NM or M- record has more than likely never been played, and the vinyl will play perfectly, with no imperfections during playback. Many dealers won't give a grade higher than this implying (perhaps correctly) that no record is ever truly perfect. The record should show no obvious signs of wear. A 45 RPM or EP sleeve should have no more than the most minor defects, such as any sign of slight handling. An LP cover should have no creases, folds, seam splits, cut-out holes, or other noticeable similar defects. The same should be true of any other inserts, such as posters, lyric sleeves, etc.

[@jerrysamet9092]

@@NTXVinyl thanks for the reply - the logic of your answer suggests that a MINT record must be sealed, b/c anything less than a sealed record is only 'more than likely never played' - what you grade as NM.

[@NTXVinyl]

@@jerrysamet9092 correct. I would never grade a record Mint if it’s not sealed. Even then, it’s more like “Presumed Mint” because you never know what’s inside the jacket

[@PieterKleij]

Thank you, great video. Super relaxing after a hectic shift.

[@NTXVinyl]

Nice! Glad to hear it

[@DorianPaige00]

How do you know which pressing if item is sealed? Do some buyers ever grind you over variants within a pressing or pressing plant?

[@NTXVinyl]

If it’s sealed and the jackets are identical there is no way to know - it doesn’t happen all that often, but it does happen occasionally. I’ve never had much issue with it. But it certainly happens. Nobody is perfect

[@markkillion8980]

No way to tell. Actually could have a subsequent label. Which basically means it is later pressing. Usually any one of the two or three pressing plants have records of equal value. A subsequent label, however, is often lower valued. Outer sleeves are less likely to “change” over the years. As a matter of fact, an early 70s record “picking up” a bar code in the 80s is good example of a change on a cover.

[@shanebarnes4049]

what is Discogs take (dollar amount per album average) on say albums from the $10-$40 range?

[@NTXVinyl]

Are you asking what Discogs fees are if you sell an album using their marketplace? About 10-12% I believe

[@shanebarnes4049]

@@NTXVinyl , yes. Thanks for the info GI.😊🤓

[@DorianPaige00]

I wouldn't discount the presence of a proper inner sleeve with lyrics. Grading is also more objective than you think.

[@NTXVinyl]

No. It’s not. In fact I mention how subjective it is multiple times in the video - even right during the intro 😄

[@DorianPaige00]

@@NTXVinyl Let's just say we disagree on the objectivity of grading. If you provide a rating, you have to do it with disclosure of all the flaws. The inner sleeve is pretty much the equivalent of the booklet for a cd. It often has lyrics, pictures, and songwriting credits. I met one seller who had a digi-pack cd with a slit for the booklet but thought it was perfectly fine not mention that it didn't have a booklet. If listing online, you could put generic inner sleeve or else they'll be some disappointment and a request for return.

[@shadowofpain8144]

After you lay out real cash for a top turntable there are only two grades unopened new and everything else. And that was pretty much true when I only had a thousand dollar stylus. Just a way to make you buy what you should not.

[@NTXVinyl]

Huh?

[@RockNRod.]

I believe his point is used vinyl is usually visual graded vs play graded. So, visual grading is not necessarily very accurate. Groove wear is hard to see.

[@whittierlibrarybookstore3708]

From my experience many sellers on Discogs will take your grading, on this vid, and say NM- (and maybe even add a little disclosure like only one hairline etc) What visually is needed to make the clean unmarked records you showed NM-? tks

[@NTXVinyl]

I rarely ever would grade any pre-owned record as NM. I reserve that for basically new, unplayed, but opened albums “NM with only one hairline” is a joke. That’s called VG+

[@whittierlibrarybookstore3708]

@@NTXVinyl I wish more discogs sellers online would have your attitude. PS I looking for Americas first album, first pressing. my email is info AT my user name - tks

[@johnnyringo8174]

I noticed you visually graded everything. At what point do you also play grade an LP?

[@NTXVinyl]

I only have time to play grade if I’m questionable of it visually, or in most cases if the LP is $50+.

[@Je-de1jo]

If I walked into your store and saw those prices I’d laugh out loud and walk right out😂 $35 for that 80s pressing or Aja!!?

[@NTXVinyl]

Laugh all you want. That’s what it sells for all day long.

[@chrisbannister3115]

Obviously you have no idea of the concept of market value. That's clearly what it sells for whether you like it or not.

[@RedVynil]

You should take a look at this. kzbin.info/www/bejne/q3yroHlmlLiSepI One thing he didn't mention in this video is that he gets people coming here from Japan to buy records! And, one thing he told me once is that the reason his prices are so low is that he's more interested in getting his records into the hands of the collectors.

[@NTXVinyl]

cool will check it out

[@tthurston70]

When you price second hand records don't you have to factor in what it cost to acquire the album in the first place?

[@NTXVinyl]

Well, yea. But I know I’m not overpaying for albums when I purchase them - so I’m already planning to price them at a fair market value based on that knowledge. e.g. If I buy a collection of albums for $20ea that’s because I know I’ll end up pricing them higher than that to make a profit

[@Pluralofvinylisvinyls]

Now you need to do a video on how not to keep all the good records for yourself so you can make some money

[@NTXVinyl]

The struggle is real

[@garyharper2943]

Only reliable way to grade the record is to listen to the whole record through headphones. Some brand new vinyl isn’t mint.

[@NTXVinyl]

Yeah, sure. But back here in the real world that’s not even remotely possible. No seller can listen to a 60m record to then put a $5-10-15-20 price on it. You’d be losing money on every album sold.

[@MattCupan]

Painful to watch how much time it took to track down which version of that Steely Dan Aja he had. When there's over 100 different represses of a record, you just found out you have a $5 or under record.

[@NTXVinyl]

Totally false.

[@RedVynil]

Why do people say, "The thing is is..."? You already said, "is". That Stevie Nicks album is only worth $5 to $10 in NM condition in book price so, whoever priced it $124 is INSANE!! Even if it was her personal copy and she autographed it and she and Mick had sex on it, that's an insane price and NOBODY'S gonna buy it!! The person that put that price on it sounds just like the owner of Record Rip-off, I MEAN, Rama or, the guy that I used to work for in the book store!!

[@NTXVinyl]

My do commenters always bitch about meaningless shit? 🤷‍♂️🤣 Sellers list stuff all the time on Discogs for crazy bloated prices. Some…in hopes an idiot buys it, others because they are lazy. But it’s the minority. Most sellers make an attempt to price fairly. And yeah I sell plenty of that Stevie album (great record btw) in the $10-15 range all day long, in VG+

[@MattCupan]

I bought 20 copies of that album for 15 cents each. I sold em for 5 bucks each. Took me over 5 years to sell em all.

[@RedVynil]

@@MattCupan Obviously, no great demand for it. That oughta bring the price down to about $100.

[@RedVynil]

@@NTXVinyl How can people learn if their mistakes aren't pointed out? I know! In the book store where I priced records all day, the guy wanted book prices on EVERYTHING!! He had a badly beat up copy of, "Ummagumma", the cover was so bad it couldn't even hold the records anymore!! Nobody in their right mind would pay more than $2.00 for it but he wanted NM book price! $35.00!! I could've gone to Jerry's and bought a used one in at least VG+ for about $6.00!! Jerry probably has 50 or 60 copies of the Nicks album for anywhere from $3 to $5!!

[@bryanmcfadden4071]

Vinylholism