Vipers last Episode | AoE Podcast Town Center - Ep. #15 with TheViper and Masmorra

[@TheOhioNews]

I love this podcast! I'm so glad Nelson has continued this with GL. It really fills a role that the AoE2 community needs ❤

[@ponchopalmera4917]

Man, I love Viper, he is so kind and happy.. best of luck

[@AulusHirtius-ty4gs]

There were no admin civ bans in Warlords III. There were only hidden player selected bans. Memb confirmed this in his co-cast with T90 who also mistakenly thought there were admin bans.

[@GLAgeOfEmpires]

true! good spot

[@barunpatra1313]

@@GLAgeOfEmpires I thought so too! And it was clear to the viewers as well. Was shocked when Viper having played it recently mentioned otherwise. Confused me to think I had probably understood it wrong lol haha

[@mertyilm_z]

My curiosity is that how viper didnt correct it 😅

[@andrewrobison6335]

This is going to be a long comment, so I will start by saying first of all congratulations to Viper and his wife, and the community wishes you the absolute best. As for the podcast, this is the second episode I have watched (the first being the post-tournament one with Hera, Daut, etc.), and I am really enjoying it. As someone who has casually followed the AoE community for years, I thought I would give some of my thoughts regarding some of the talking points mentioned in the show. First, regarding single vs double elimination brackets, I do not personally have a strong opinion either way, as long as there are plenty of both. The main draw of a tournament for me personally is the uniqueness of the event, and so as long it is not the same format 3-4 tournaments in a row, there will always be something worth watching. Second, regarding 3rd place matches, I agree that they are not very engaging for viewers, however I still like seeing more player matchups, so it is not totally pointless to me. I do think the biggest issue as Viper said is the scheduling, but scheduling for an AoE tournament is just fundamentally difficult, so I think out of all the potential feedback, that is probably the hardest to improve upon. Third, best of nine's are absolutely too long for the average person. I already don't tune in to tourneys live because I never have the time to watch a full day's worth of games in one sitting, so I will wait until the recordings are uploaded and watch them at 1.5-1.75x speed, stopping and starting as I have time, that way I can still somewhat stay current with the tournament. That being said, a best of nine is just too much that even at 2x speed, it would still take several hours to watch at once, and I'm sure at that point players just do not have the will to play to their fullest potential. These were just a few of my thoughts. Thanks for reading, and I look forward to more AoE content moving forward!

[@aarononon]

Best of luck Viper and Debbie! My own daughter came along two years ago and it's the coolest thing to ever happen in the history of humanity. Hopefully you guys have a similar experience :)

[@valinagabrielle]

Do i have to say it again? Great content, such chemistry between Nelson and Orjan. Thanks for the news and the fun ❤❤❤

[@NachoAoE]

Loving every episode

[@larsdonkor7943]

Last before the bebesnek

[@AlexB-vt5xe]

Love the cast, look forward to the next, congrats and good luck Viper and Debbie

[@danielcoleman9765]

Congrats on the baby! Very exciting!

[@陳柏安-q5k]

for sure Masmorra is a Viper Fan XD

[@Cacun]

If I don’t recall wrongly tatoh said this 3rd place was special coz he was so mad from last days otherwise he said we would go 100% for 3rd place

[@JesusChristoph-xo9ov]

Im at 26:00 at the moment and it's awesome. But one thing I've noticed since you put your camera on full screen sometimes, Masmorra, is that the camera seems a bit shaky at times 11

[@SirQuantization]

I really love your point Masmorra. Civ bans actually prevent players from preparing which means we actually see less impressive gameplay. I'm with you man I wanna see people at their PEAK playing the best Aoe2 possible!

[@Zain-bd5mm]

you want to see the same match ups over and over again?

[@CptSquirrel]

@@Zain-bd5mm yes

[@lifelesssquash9935]

Whereas TheViper made a way better point about the bans making players prepare for any eventuality. And increased variability in games...

[@SirQuantization]

@@Zain-bd5mm the meta ACTUALLY changes when you do that so yea.

[@SirQuantization]

@@lifelesssquash9935 nah viper sees it from pro player perspective but viewer perspective agree with Masmorra. Imagine a chess tournament right where all players have practiced to become as good as possible learning all openings and researching their opponent but then right before the game starts one of the admins comes over and is like sorry guys we’ve decided you can’t have your b2 pawns and your a2 knights (or other random pieces), good luck!

[@Behrnahrd]

I like the third place match

[@trublood6410]

Title scared me. 11

[@fabi8639]

Dont panic. Babysnake is half german. Babysnake will send u the birthappointment via fax. Its fiiiiiiiiine

[@herotalib9556]

Like Viper said not all tournament needs to be the same. I think some tournaments single elimination is good, others like NAC is fine with double elimination or round robin. 3rd place match is given. I think since the money difference is different we need to have a 3rd place match. As far as the idea of making it same I am against it since usually the difference between 3rd and 4th as we can see is $1000.00 plus vs something like 5-6 is not that much. So I think its necessary to have it. Also you need some kind of show before the final match to warm up the viewers. The only thing I do agree is it should be recorded games (We can even have the camera when recording somehow). So the finals start on time! Best of 9 for finals just make sense to me. Best of 5 are meh and I like how we are doing more best of 7 which i think is fine. I think best of 9 is great for a final and as a viewer i enjoy it more. As far as your opinion of twitch and people leaving early etc I think that just how viewership works. People start leaving after the conclusion that people think not the actual conclusion. By that what I mean is if I see Hera 3-0 on a best of 9 most viewers will lose interest since they think that Hera has won already. If we did that with a best of 7 if Hera is 2-0 most people would start losing interest thinking he won. So longer series mean more interest in my opinion. Rage Forest 5 I think there was Drama everwhere for no reason. I watched Danella commentary and she was calling Hera salty or atleast what he typed. Then again if you have no context or context that she had which was her viewers flaming comments (she kinda should know better), Hera words could be taken the wrong way. On stream he was pretty calm but at the same time a little to over confident on if he was winning or not but he did say they can review later. He was actually making other people Calm the whole time and even when the crash game happened he kept saying its fine redo it when other teammates were not happy about that and wanted the mod to review the game more. Also not sure why everyone like HERA HERA HERA his whole team had same opinion on the game but of-course he gets the hate. I dont know i usually dont see much into things like this but its just people being people. Hera I am not sure why has so many haters (Well, i have my suspicion but rather not say). So anything he does the hate army just finds a way to make it negative. If you read the reddit comments you cant even have a discussion without people just making personal attacks or saying well I never liked him blah blah blah. Anyhow sadly as great as AOE2 community is recently it's just being more and more toxic with the Viper/Hera haters and just feel like people cant enjoy the games anymore and are too busy talking crap (Thats why I stop reading chat anymore while watch streams).

[@andresfurlan4]

Good luck Vipuuuurrrrrrr !!! Hope the kid dont hooverrrr to much into the economyy !!

[@gebhard128]

Vaat its T90 and not DauT taking over the podcast???

[@danielchauvin9317]

How about they do a 3rd place match AND a panel of analysts

[@0091Nathan]

"punishments, I want punishments" Viper June 2024 😅

[@naveendennis]

Time codes quickly helped me to relax 😅I was viper to be in the aoe2 scene until I stop following aoe2 😅😅

[@jeremykothe2847]

Until he is older than Daut. Meaning Daut has to stop aging (die) and then Viper catches up, then Viper is allowed to quit. Not before!

[@naveendennis]

@@jeremykothe2847😶‍🌫️

[@krarch6959]

A bootcamp is not by any change open for plebs to learn the game? :)

[@Level7Monkey]

As a viewer, I don't care for 3rd place matches

[@AoLIronmaiden]

I do! Bronze, silver, and gold is important! You've got a top three which is a standard and classic measurement. Plus it's another showcase of two great players who made it all the way to the semis

[@goncal7099]

Pros constantly talk about how important the draft is as if it was a good thing. IT'S NOT (in my opinion)!!! The viewers don't tune in to see who drafts better. We want to see players win in the "pitch". Not sure what's the best system to allow that (I have some ideas) but agree with those who think the current system puts too much focus on the draft

[@battleforevermore]

Tatoh vs hera semifinals were decided by the draft according to tatoh. Hidden civ no repeat would be great in Warlords due to the variety of maps. Eliminate the map with most mirror matches every round.

[@AoLIronmaiden]

Maybe recording the drafts later and posting the vid on YT could be a solution. I agree that drafting isn't my thing - I skip it when I watch vods

[@goncal7099]

@@AoLIronmaiden that's not a solution imp. The problem isn't having the draft live. The problem is that it decides series. Hiding it from the viewers wouldn't solve it

[@AoLIronmaiden]

@@goncal7099 I'm just talking about the entertainment value, not about the draft impacting the games. Honestly... The draft and civ differences are just part of the game. That's what makes Age games awesome, there ARE random resources, many civs, and so on. It adds to replayability, imo. I think it's boring to watch, but it's definitely a big part of the competitive side

[@abreviated1460]

Please stop this paid ‘ early access ‘ deal on Spotify. If you need more revenue, add some sponsored content during the podcast. It is very annoying and money-grabby while everything is already out on YT.

[@GLAgeOfEmpires]

Thanks for the feedback. Would love to know how it is annoying though? It doesn't change anything for KZbin and if you don't want to use it on Spotify there are no downsides for you. If the couple of seconds where it's mentioned during the episode are annoying, a sponsored segment would be way more annoying.

[@yuuya5985]

Hey, masmorra and snake, Chinese viewer here, "Xie" is pronounced mostly close to "sh-ye", where "sh" as it sounds in "she" but with a flat tougue instead and "ye" as in "yeah". i dont think there is an exact match in english with "x" in chinese, but clearly you two were all wrong pronounciating that 11

[@yg-dn5ms]

I’m happy seeing Viper happy!!! He’s got the daddy glow ❤ best of luck on you and Debbie!!!

[@cfban]

Viper is so likeable. Best of luck with the baby.

[@jeremykothe2847]

I love this cast so much. It's an instant click when I see it come up. I will miss Viper a lot, but if Tristan is on I can't be tooooo unhappy. When Viper returns, keep Tristan around! The two of them together... Just needs Dave, Daut and Jordan to be

[@thelostangel7649]

Great episode, thanks for the content. Don't trust in Vipers Chinese knowledge though, you actually got it mostly right at 43:02. The pinyin x is really pronounced similar to the English 'sh' sound (so you were pretty close), except the tip of your tongue should be behind your lower teeth while the middle of your tongue rises up towards the roof of your mouth while you make the sound. You also forgot to pronounce the e at the end of xie, which is not silent.

[@zackc3767]

These forfeit reasons keep getting better and better: Margougou: couldn't play, locked in his bedroom because door handle broke Viper: couldn't play, had a baby

[@skipper472]

Hera: All my villagers were male, no wonder thou wert victorious.

[@LbK314]

You boys delivered again. Great show.

[@CptSquirrel]

The RF 'drama' shows you to not treat twitch chatters as friends, even as a content creator. A lot of them are reserved in their life and use anonimity on the web to be mean or laugh at others expense. Especially for younger guys like Hera or Lewis, as there is an age gap between them and most of their viewers, who do not really respect them.

[@FloosWorld_AoE]

All the best for you Viper and Debbie! :)

[@peterl9022]

Viper has a very healthy opinion of the ban system. Honestly the game should be encouraging adaption. So any player should be able to adapt on the fly and play any civ. That's where the best players should shine.

[@PiscesKanna]

I agree, but I also believe that upsets based on quirky unexpected strategies are good for viewership and create hype around new players. Maybe Sebastian isn't really the 3rd best player in the world, but I loved seeing him get 3rd place.

[@peterl9022]

@@PiscesKanna that's a fair viewpoint as well

[@mvcavinato]

What I don't get is why the players are responsible for finding bugs. It is like in soccer if the players had to check if the field is well white-marked and the goals net isn't torn... For bigger tournaments like WRL and Rage Forests it should be Admins' job, just like the referee and their team do it on soccer (and roughly every other sport...)

[@hannesv6567]

Thank you so much for both of you. Really enjoyed your podcast over the last months every time when it came out. :) All the best to you Viper, having a little one is really a great time :)

[@tomtomminger6227]

Awesome episode! Sometimes you don't need a guest star. All it needs are 2 nice guys with chemistry. Hope to see you back soon, Viper. all the best for the new family.

[@NickHalden47]

Hera also said some things about tatoh being salty and about unsportsmanship

[@lsf87]

Where did he say that? 😳

[@NickHalden47]

@@lsf87 his Vod 4:21 and on going to 4:26 I believe. First saying not fair play and later tatoh being salty

[@philwithcheese]

Players should not be calling admin re on maps. Admins should be spectating and looking for this.

[@oscars7948]

I dont mind mirror matches. Let the player with the best skill and not draft win.

[@kyotokid]

Great podcast, thanks for doing these

[@dylanfalk3243]

I would love to see a star league style tournament for aoe2 like GSL or ASL StarCraft.

[@FacundoTupac]

Viper's last episode? It cannot be 😭

[@jeremykothe2847]

If Tristan replaces him, you know he'll be back :D

[@AoLIronmaiden]

Masmorra, I disagree BIG TIME on the third place match. I don't play aoe2 anymore, but I like watching! I think that third place is a standard and classic prize or place to win, I think it's important and fun! It lets us get another really high level game from semifinalists. Having said that, I definitely understand and can agree with Viper on the logistical issues of playing it before the grand final. I'd prefer to keep the third place match and change the logistics to facilitate it.

[@MrAqwos]

Omg I love the banter and cannot wait for Tristan to shoot back at daddy Viper :D

[@imbananasaurus3716]

I feel like for B07 BO9 there needs to be an option for players to take say a 10-15 minute break in-between the set

[@brolafdanaross9787]

Love the podcast. I have to say tho, I couldn't disagree more on the single elim bracket topic. Double elim has always been better for e-sport, it allows for more consistency and naturally build the storyline during the tournament. The fact that a RTS afficionados can have that opinion is beyond me. Hello ? GSL much ? OGN ? Anyone ?

[@thomasmuller546]

Topic 3rd place match: I think that should be in every tourney. Honor not only the first place but also the guys who make it deep but not win it all. It's more the Olympian and not the American spirit and I much prefer that. As a viewer I also appreciate to see the match and it's alot fun for the fans if the player getting eliminated in the semis, which they root for, has another big game. For Organisation : I think a shorter version like in warlords with the bo5 is the perfect way to not take away to much from the final but also giving the 3rd place match enough room. For lack of motivation of the players : I have 0 understanding for that. 3rd place is sth you should aim for instead of shared 3rd and 4th, every competitive player should prefer that and when there is a financial benefit on top you also have that as a motivation bonus. So I'm all for 3rd place matches in every tournament.

[@GvF11]

I don't think there's one "right" tournament format, I think that at least from the viewers perspective, variety is where it's at. Let one tournament be this sweaty single elimination 1v1 arabia grind, another one with more relaxed atmosphere, almost absurd maps and random civ bans, another one with the Swiss system etc. It simply gets boring if the tournaments feel the same, i prefer events that have a "soul" for lack of a better word.

[@JohnSmith-tk7nt]

Funny how different American and European working cultures are especially around childbirth. I think in America most men want to be around for the birth of their child but it is usually rare for any sort of paternity leave or the father to really take any break from work for the child after they are born. Even mothers will usually not be afforded more than maybe 3 months of maternity leave. I think most Americans would agree this is not good for anyone tho

[@kendallshimabukuro6250]

If Hera has kids, then we will be watching Hera versus Viper for the kiddos... because we'd be rooting for the kiddos :P

[@morxzas1]

I'm not clumsy.

[@aniruddha414]

Dramatic title..

[@GLAgeOfEmpires]

All for the bait!

[@FlowerPewnnannie-ry5tj]

*intelligently worded title 😀

[@jeremykothe2847]

I'm with Viper on the "random players/match" issue. The viewers didn't tune in for that, they tuned in for the competition. Random matches with banter is what draws the daily viewers. That's everywhere all the time. If we don't like the 3rd place match, just don't have one and award 3rd place from a countback of some statistics. Lots of sports don't have it. Eg: Tennis. Players travel, prepare, and then it's single knockout. No third place.

[@jeremykothe2847]

And I'm the guy who says GL cast games should focus more on the fun and less on the strict competition. Because it's *not* a tournament. Each has its place and should focus on what they're delivering, not everything be a little of everything.

[@AlphaKanalBiH]

can't wait for Tristan to join on the cast, and also, congratulations to The Viper on becoming a father!

[@kathykat367]

3rd place match. No way would I want to listen to someone analyze for an hour.

[@greyshrimp]

33:50 to skip to the biggest deal in the entire video

[@CptSquirrel]

All the best wishes to House Snake!

[@lucaprampolini4550]

Congratulations Vipurr.

[@jacobwood3326]

So excited to listen to this!

[@thomasmuller546]

oh nooo why vipas last episode

[@olivertate4983]

Concerning the EW ladder, if only a few pros with a chance will grind the ladder at the end is there a possibility of 'regulars' affecting the outcome? Particularly in an unpopular time zone could a player like ACCM end up gaining ELO from 1300s? (I don't know if the EW ladder uses regular ELO so this may be moot, but an interesting quirk of the ladder is that the highest rated players are 1800ish, and would gain 1 ELO from beating a 1300. Whereas on the main ladder the top ELO of 2700 players gains no points from beating a 1300).

[@bonevgm]

I love the drafting phase and I love when we see it live, especially the civ part. But I've always enjoyed drafting in esport, for example in DOTA.

[@nicholaswoollhead6830]

Babysnekkkk

[@benjaminashlin]

The best games to watch on stream were the old gl team play when they chat between nilli, Jordan, viper, etc. lots of interesting team dynamics and strategy.

[@steve_aoe]

Love the random bans that we are seeing, makes it much more interesting as a viewer not seeing the same civs all tournament and makes the draft much more complex.

[@dylsco2707]

For every tournament I want best of 21, no breaks, no pauses. The second you press resign the next one starts.

[@andomlyranonymous6488]

Vipers camera quality and skin textures! also, best of luck and all that!

[@No_Complaint_9790]

Best of luck Viper & Debbie on your new adventure! It’s going to be a fun!

[@calvinrex]

Viper and Debbie! the best of luck to you. lest have a like snake on the scene!

[@KurtFan69]

Best wishes for vipy and debbie!!

[@andresperedo1275]

When is Tatoh passing by, BTW?

[@MrTommann]

Awesome podcast. Best wishes to the Viper and Debbie

[@WestWarPigs]

Congrats viper all the beat

[@d1st94]

25:10 I don't think recorded 3rd place match is a good idea. Viewers will just know that there's no chance for coming back for example when it's 2-0 and 15 minutes until the GF according to schedule so it takes away a lot from the excitement.

[@pevio2851]

There wouldn't be an official schedule saying when the grand final starts. That would be private information for the GF players only.

[@qasemzaqqa7701]

comment

[@FlowerPewnnannie-ry5tj]

We love this game

[@GARCIAOFFICAL]

BO3's should be normalized and losers brackets should also be normalized. Tournaments without losers brackets will always lack competitive integrity.

[@AoLIronmaiden]

Why?

[@dylanfalk3243]

Best of nine is way too many. Best of seven is even too many lol

[@schmeed0000]

nelson doesn't care about civ drafts? wtf

[@leothecat8162]

Viper isn’t going to try to get into Redbull? :(

[@chrummi4082]

Viper and Tatoh are already invited for Redbull

[@leothecat8162]

@@chrummi4082 ooooooo noice

[@elian958]

masmorra doesnt speak for all the viewers

[@SenorEvanso]

Masmorras shaky camera, ay ay ay 😵