Vision of a Classless Britain | John Major | Leading

Former Prime Minister John Major opens up about his lifelong dream of creating a classless society in Britain. In this segment, Major reflects on the pervasive influence of social class and how it has shaped the country's political landscape over the years. Discover the evolving dynamics of voting intentions across different classes during Major's lifetime and the complex relationship between class and politics.
#JohnMajor #TheRestisPolitics

[@MrMh722]

I listened to this whole podcast and metaphorically wept for the state of our politics. Whatever you thought of Major, this is what we are missing today - a sense of duty, thoughtfulness, decorum, sensible debate, and a focus on the policies.

[@barrypower6822]

John major is a statesman no question, unfortunately he would never get elected now for the current tory party

[@peterclarke7240]

You might want to check his record. He maybe a "decent" Tory by modern standards, but he's still a Tory with that same depressing ideology of letting the market decide everything and then wringing your hands together I effectually when the market starts eating people alive.

[@tropics8407]

Yes, people have seen Marxism and socialism so are more wary now.

[@peterclarke7240]

@@tropics8407 Ah, good. Someone who's so right-wing they think John Major was a socialist. Always nice to hear from people so divorced from reality even the crazies who believe they're Napoleon cross the street to avoid them.

[@adamyoud6934]

@@peterclarke7240 Not to mention preaching 'family values' and cheating on his wife, typical hypocritical Tory, that being said at least he's a more principled Tory than those who proceeded him

[@adampascoe1084]

Since WW2 there have been 17 prime ministers. 9 of them went to private secondary schools, 5 went to grammar schools and 3 went to state schools. A staggering 13 of them went to Oxford, 1 went to Edinburgh and 3 (Churchill, Callaghan & Major) didn’t go to university. It is amazing how a single institution can produce so many PMs.

[@philhardy18]

I wish everybody would watch this . We’re so I need of thoughtful politicians like John now . I didn’t agree with many of the things that his administration did. But at least they were competent, and had the conviction of their principles

[@badger4361]

John has aged incredibly well, and he is great to listen to.

[@jay.a3926]

He was impactful as PM but not recognised for his worth. The most decent PM. Genuine in his desire by serving in the best interest of the people.

[@peterclarke7240]

Oh stop. Check his record before gushing all over your rose-tinted memories of him.

[@Caskchap]

Have you forgotten the disastrous ERM fiasco showing this arsehole had zero financial and political judgement? As for personal integrity have you also forgotten the sordid affair he had with Edwina Curry? Did he tell Norma what he was really doing on the nights he stayed in London or did he lie to deceive his wife? A dishonest deceitful man with poor judgement wow! Where do I sign up to listen to this twat.

[@permabear6025]

He is and always was in the business of self-interest

[@Lamilton82828]

Schools and hospitals were in a dire state when john left power so was pretty much everything else in the country hes almost as much of a scoundrel Campbell

[@alfredthegreat9543]

​@@Lamilton82828Agreed, but after the ERM debacle he handled the economy pretty well. He was a working class man at the head of the Conservative party- that meant alot.

[@KP-yq8id]

John is great. When I was growing up (1984 born) he was marred in Tory sleaze and pea soup on spitting image. But I think he is a great, a great unacknowledged PM. A good person, good values and he tried to implement them. Not my team. But a great grandee of his team, a voice of reason and conscience.well done

[@jay.a3926]

Spot on.

[@chrispalmer7893]

@@jay.a3926 For me, John Major is the British Jimmy Carter. Took a lot of flak whilst in office, much of it undeserved (but not all of it). However, since leaving office he has conducted himself with dignity and made well-judged and well-reasoned interventions on current issues in a way that earn him much greater respect than he had before.

[@buzzukfiftythree]

He did have an affair with Edwina Currie, so let's not pretend that he was 'white than white' and free of the sleaze that marred his premiership. Yes, by Tory standards, he was a more moderate PM. However, the privatisation of British Rail took place during his time in office and that was disastrous.

[@chrispalmer7893]

@@buzzukfiftythree I did say some of the flak he received during his time was deserved. The privatisation of British Rail, almost everything Michael Howard did as Home Secretary, pushing grant-maintained schools (which we can now see as a precursor of "academies"), pandering to the Eurosceptic right (as it turns out pointlessly), the betrayal of the Nottinghamshire miners, going into the ERM at too high a rate leading to our eventual humiliating withdrawal (that was Chancellor rather than PM Major, but still counts against him), there are lots of items on the charge sheet against him (and that's not an exhaustive list). All of that said, there is a general sense that Major made "honest" mistakes - he was trying to do the right thing most of the time. As opposed to present day Tories whose actions seem inherently corrupt. And the affair with Currie before becoming PM notwithstanding, even the "sleaze" of the Major years looks a little quaint and insignificant compared to the venality of Cameron / May / Johnson / Truss and Sunak's goverments.

[@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t]

@@chrispalmer7893 IIRC he talks about the ERM in another section of the interview, and it does seem much of a piece with him making 'honest' mistakes, or - I think particularly in the case of the ERM - hoping that things will take a turn for the better, and that not panning out.

[@jubear1493]

This podcast frankly should be required listening in secondary schools, if not for anything else but to show that there were once politicians that gave a toss about the job they did and actually served those that voted for them. He's quite possibly the last leader we had, or will ever have, that didn't depend on 'Personality' to get him the vote, nor use all manner of nefarious ways and means to get it. You certainly don't come across many in public life these days that you could regard as entirely honourable, I regard John as exactly that, if nothing else. I can't say I always agreed with policy John Major put forward or went on to implement, but the opposition and others such as journalists, would ALWAYS get a reasoned, intelligent and no nonsense breakdown of why he wanted to do so, if they should ask. How times have changed in that regard!!

[@iankelly781]

Really enjoyed this interview, he speaks a lot of sense

[@ruinerblodsinn6648]

Please more JM content!

[@GoGoTwice]

Back to a distant time when politicians were thoughtful, gracious, acknowledging, great listeners and eloquent speakers.

[@philipread8733]

John Major speaks so well, its a shame modern politicians aren't as reasoned as him. He speaks clearly enough to understand and with a great deal of sense in n increasingly senseless world. Just my opinion!

[@ComedyJakob]

You can tell John Major has had plenty experience during question time. Very good responses.

[@user-ph3jn6kn8t]

I don't know this guy as I never was envolved in British politics enough to be able to, but hearing a conservative talking about his dream of a classless society is something I never imagined to experience one day. Mak es me wonder whether deep entrism maybe was a thing in the conservative party.

[@DeputyChiefWhip]

Great content.... Until inequality is addressed then nothing will change, in fact it will only get worse.

[@jgmediting7770]

That’s laughable coming from a tory politician. You can’t address inequality when the economic system produces two classes of people, with the minority class holding all the economic and political power. Given the right wing is all about the interests of that minority class, there’s some dishonesty going on.

[@samoakley23]

"My dream of a classless society is something that has never come about". Will it ever?

[@harveysmith100]

Not until we all go to the same state schools

[@ianjames3078]

He was asked that

[@ChristopherTyson-be1fy]

When is the full podcast available?

[@SamIreland]

Monday

[@daveb3987]

Where’s the full interview?

[@PMMagro]

JM makes todays PMs and cabinet look like not even school pupils. Impressive. I am not British but if someone like JM became our leader I'd not mind to much even if it was from the wrong party or coalition. Seems like a wise man not just a huge ego needing constant feeding.

[@RPKGameVids]

Back when politicians were sensible adults and not unstable teenagers like what we have now.

[@markwatkins8309]

These days, I think class is media driven, as it suits the narrative. Divide / rule. The three main parties / politicians will all raise taxes, and waste some of it, and enhance their own lives, directorships, books, TV/radio presenting etc etc so the only class is them, thinking and acting a class above the rest of us, whilst (mostly) morally bankrupt (but rich).

[@markwatkins8309]

As I see it, the only answer is for a benign lottery or pools winner, to use that horrible word "ordinary" (person) to make the point, to form a new party but no-one ever will. Easier to complain or put up with than challenge (which as well as finance, requires effort). So we are stuck with a 2/3 party system of same old people / promises, recycled. I'm afraid I'm disillusioned with it all after believing the political system was (basically) fair & voting on particular policies rather than just a party for most of my life. The positive, I have this realisation.

[@JelMain]

The big parties certainly select your candidates old-style, and not according to competence

[@duckbizniz663]

The UK needs someone like John Major for political leadership. Today the UK is ruled by a uniformed populous implementing self-destructive policies (e.g. Brexit) that is why populist leaders like Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage have received overwhelming popular support. John Major stated that during his time in government there is a propensity for working class people to support Labour and upper class people to support Tory. However, Tony Blair have stated that throughout parliament's history from the second half of the 19th century (after 1880) the Tories have been voted into office far more than Labour. Working class people outnumber the upper class by far, so why has the conservative Tories dominated? The strange phenomenon of industrialized countries (e.g. the UK) is the presence of a relatively large Middle Class. Not poor nor wealthy, the Middle Class can afford a "descent" education for their children. A "decent" education gives a society a chance to judge the accomplishments or lack of accomplishments of a popularly elected government from a multi-political party pool. It is this Middle Class of common people that allows industrialized countries to surpass the under-developed, third-world countries controlled by Kings, Religious Clerics, Generals, and Socialist/Communist Dictators. What you see in pre-industrialized, third-world countries is the absence of a "decently" educated Middle Class, or the absence of a large Middle Class all together. Mass education among under-developed countries are not predicated on reasoning, logic, and experimentation. Rather education of the people is focused on memorization of dogma. The teaching of the basic sciences do not advance their society significantly on any level. What modern conveniences you do see in third-world countries are imported from industrialized states. Look at the students in Islamic Majids and Madrasas or the Jewish Synagogues. Their bodies rocking back and forth to the rhythm of reciting religious verses with unquestioning memorization. Like the Socialist mantras of Marxist-Leninist states. In addition, Major mentions that parliament has been dominated by elites who have attended the top private schools in the UK. This is more a sign of wealth and power than intellectual achievement. In the US, George W. Bush Junior became President of the US. He got into the top business school in the country, Harvard Business School, with a "C" average. Can an average American get into Harvard Business School with average grades? In fact President Bush Junior had express disdain for Harvard Business School claiming those academics thought "they had all the answers." George W. Bush Junior did work for a few companies so his proponents claim his work experiences got him into Harvard. Again if you check on President Bush Junior's background you will see close family and close friendship ties in obtaining his jobs. Most average Americans simply do not have wealthy, powerful friends and relatives who will give them a job based more on friendship and nepotism. Being a member of the upper class affords access to personal relationships with other people of wealth & power, which affords access to good paying jobs and opportunities to make decisions. So how did John Major get to be Prime Minister of the UK. Some people can make it based on talent. Margaret Thatcher hand picked John Major as her successor when she was forced to resign. We can decry Thatcher as an elitist, but she picked someone from a humble background whom she respected. Attending well respected institutions of education does NOT give you access to decision making positions within government. Rather attendance in academic institutions of high repute is a sign that you are from the upper class and your parents can get you into that institution despite poor academic achievement.

[@stuartbaines2843]

‘Career Politicians’ have been given free rein over the last 25years. At the Countries Expense

[@theram4320]

JM was a capable, competent, politician. However, he was dwarfed by his immediate predecessor, and there were other bigger beasts in parliament in 1990, and one or two bigger beasts waiting in the wings (Heseltine, Hurd,) who failed to succeed MT. The point made here is a valid one, and that is since JM, we haven't had a PM who was as sincere or devoted to public service. Blair may have been more charming, photogenic, successful, and quotable, but he was much less authentic. The shower we have had since Blair has been just that, each and every one of them.

[@harveysmith100]

Now working class people read tabloids owned by billionaires who tell them to vote Conservative.

[@manmaje3596]

It’s not necessarily that cut and dry.

[@ianjames3078]

@@manmaje3596clearly, but technically correct.

[@manmaje3596]

@@ianjames3078 As opposed to tabloids owned by billionaires who tell people to vote Labour? I still don’t see what you or the OP are getting at. People will naturally choose news which fits their social thinking. Not everyone admires the guardian, the independent and the mirror which is why there are others options as opposed to only 1 form of 1 type of news.

[@ianjames3078]

@@manmaje3596 my ‘technically correct’ comment should possibly read ‘grammatically correct’. We have a population of ‘working class’, whatever that means now, who read tabloids that are owned by billionaires who tell them to vote conservative. It’s not uniquely so, agreeing that’s the case isn’t to say that there aren’t opposing billionaires doing their best for Labour (a Labour continuing to position itself closer to Tory policies in certain areas likely to appeal to the populace).

[@manmaje3596]

@@ianjames3078 Waffle waffle waffle. I think you’ll find even the red poorest can be an awful lot more socially conservative than metropolitan liberal types such as yourself. Especially when it comes to family and community. Your telling yourself things your want to believe more than they are actually true. What would your ideal world be? Everyone poor below a certain line reading the socialist papers only? As people CHOOSE which news they want to read maybe your task should be finding out WHY so many working class and traditionally Labour supporters are now reading newspapers totally removed from that support and voter base? You see something strange so you do the research and find out its not on us it’s on you.

[@DavidByrne85]

The reason class is no longer such a determinant in voting is not that class has gone away - gaps have widened. Its because the party representing the working class has gone away & there's nobody to vote for.

[@benlowe1701]

I don't think that's entirely fair. Working class people aren't just "Not voting" which is what would happen if they simply had nobody pushing their interests. The Tories have managed to get a decent chunk of the working class to believe they represent their interests. Whether they are right to believe this is another matter. But issues like Brexit, the culture wars, immigration, have come to dominate the political sphere, and those issues, frankly, are not class dependant. You can be working class or middle class and be opposed to immigration. You can be working class or middle class and think Brexit was an amazing idea. The issues that dominate our politics simply don't fit neatly along the class divide anymore. Now I agree with your observation that Labour no longer represents the working class, but I would argue that you are putting the cart before the horse there and are seeing the change as the cause instead of as the result.

[@ovariantrolley2327]

true

[@DavidByrne85]

@@benlowe1701 immigration is an interesting case point because pre-Blaire the Labour left like Benn, McDonnel were broadly anti-(mass) immigration as a matter of labour protectionism, as were the unions.

[@huwzebediahthomas9193]

But it is persistent. The biggest change was in post WW1 1920's Britain, what with grand houses being sold off for land and so on, heir sons dead. Took until 1960's Britain after the other.

[@davidnorton7437]

Never mind a classless society what about a society that each individual recognizes his or her responsibility to the rest of society.

[@roblancs]

The instigator of the deconservatisation of the Conservative Party. Reform, Reform, Reform.

[@alanforrester6900]

What made me wake up low income people should spend all their lives climbing the ladder instead of being proud who they are labour policy that’s doomed

[@khar12d8]

I don't want a classless society. It's an impossible dream anyway. In the USSR somebody that graduated from Moscow University was a different class to a Soviet coal miner. Even if the Soviets pretended otherwise. Class distinctions are inevitable. The mistake we've made in the UK since the 1990s is trying to make as many working class kids as possible middle class. That's why new Labour tried to get so many to go to uni. But we should focus more on improving the quality of life for people that will always be working class. Not everybody can be middle class.

[@manmaje3596]

Well said.

[@gloriousrevolutionary2306]

Ironically we have an enormous shortage of Blue Collar workers, many of these professions such as Heating engineers can earn far more than someone working in the service sector as a result of government focusing on getting everyone to university.

[@benlowe1701]

*Distinctions* are inevitable. I am not sure I agree that the best form of distinction in society should be through class.

[@rohitballal5654]

Why do they keep releasing small clips like this?

[@cassylow9418]

Getting us hooked so well listen to the whole Leading podcast on Monday when it drops :)

[@MikkelKjrJensen]

To keep us clicking on it.

[@user-fj3fq4qn6j]

Just out of interest. Why do content providers use continual background music. Surely it doesn't add value. It's a distraction. I accept that background music in movies etc, works to set a seen. But here we have an ex-PM being interviewed. His voice and Alistair Campbell's voice is all we need. I, personally, find the music a distraction. Thank you.

[@user-fj3fq4qn6j]

Otherwise, I enjoy the videos and am fascinated by the content.

[@ryanq9843]

Major is really the example of a stand up politician. Not something you see these days

[@jezlawrence720]

Its not class based, at least in peoples vote - thatcher did succeed in that. But in doing so this broke the link to locality, which is why fptp has gone so irredeemably wrong since.

[@Steven-jx7ch]

when I think of the endownment that was given to the water companies, it is my view currently, that Major wasnt paying attention and water is awful currently needs fixing kzbin.info/www/bejne/noPQYpaFasuDpbM

[@peteoloughlin2576]

Please get rid of the stupid background music.

[@chrispalmer7893]

John Major - a throwback to the time when it was possible to be a Conservative without also being a hate-filled bigot. In retrospect, it's impressive that the very few others like him clung on for so long; it wasn't until the Boris Purges of 2019 that the Parliamentary Conservative Party finally got rid of them all.

[@khar12d8]

The Conservatives are way more socially liberal and diverse than it was in John Major's time. You might not like Brexit, but today the Tories support gay marriage, they support laws against discrimination, there's multiple gay MPs, the Tory PM is the first ever non white PM. When Major was PM there was not a single openly gay or non white Tory MP.

[@chrispalmer7893]

@@khar12d8 The Parliamentary party might be - somewhat, and only somewhat - but there is little reason to believe that to be true of the party as a whole. Having the first non-white PM would be remarkable if they hadn't tried so hard to select anyone else instead; they chose the woefully unqualified Liz Truss before reluctantly settling for Sunak after she was a disaster. There was substantial opposition within the Tories to gay marriage (both in Parliament and in the wider party). That they have made some steps towards reflecting modern thinking doesn't impress me - they are still slow to respond to and fight such trends; just look at the bile and nonsense they're spewing about trans rights today (and no, that's not just at the fringes, Sunak is fully complicit).

[@khar12d8]

@@chrispalmer7893 It sounds like you're not much of a conservative. And that's fine. But the Conservatives aren't supposed to be really progressive, that's why they're conservatives 😅 They are supposed to be the party that is less progressive. You might view that as a bad thing, but if you were more conservative minded, you might not.

[@chrispalmer7893]

@@khar12d8 Confusing response - I wasn't the one claiming the Conservatives to be progressive. Also, yeah, if I thought differently I'd think differently... (although I'd argue that the act of thinking is generally sufficient to prevent someone from being a Conservative).

[@khar12d8]

@@chrispalmer7893 Humans are emotional creatures. Thinking isn't enough in a democracy. That's why Plato hated democracy.

[@williewagtail4846]

Why doesn't John come back into politics and lead the country?

[@RPKGameVids]

We've got children running the show now, where are the adults?

[@lewisclark1122]

It takes a big man to talk to Alistair Campbell even after he spread scurrilous rumours about his choice of underpants.

[@lewisclark1122]

And you know what they say... a lie travels halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to put its y-fronts on.

[@robwri9544]

There are a lot of fake conservatives. The best example are people who who support the Conservative party because they want a government to do everything for them. This is not how conservatism works. Most people do have a conservative outlook on life in that we understand the importance of gaining an education and progressing in life. Although the state provides the institutions in which we study, it is up to us to put the work in. Some people are different for many reasons but don't claim to be conservative if you aren't prepared to accept that your individual choices have more effect on your destiny than any government ever will.

[@rogermoore-gd9do]

Personally i want an Intolerant Society!

[@JelMain]

When we have nothing to vote for, this ceases to be true.

[@robertallen591]

we are loosing the working class culture, and voting on our personality type as consevatives and liberals, labour will loose chunks of the north due to imigration but the conservatives wiil loose the south as a result of there xenaphobia

[@paulies5407]

I wouldn’t be so sure. Many 2nd and 3rd generation migrants are just as against mass migration as anyone. Especially when it means their kids will have less than they had.

[@piccalillipit9211]

*WE MIGHT HAVE MORE COLORS OF MP's* and sexes - but they all still went to private schools and Oxford University. The only reason we have more minorities... ...is there are more rich minority parents sending their kids to the very expensive private schools...

[@sewhip]

Colours.

[@Myndir]

Rich minority parents are themselves a sign of how Britain has changed.

[@kimemia_maina]

Class free probably reads better 🤔

[@freebornjohn2687]

John Major is always thoughtful and worth listening to, but by god he's hated by the Tory Brexiteers.

[@jmaitland5709]

oddly enough listening to discussions from John Major like this is the reason I stopped being a Brexiteer.

[@calumtosh1438]

Comrade major

[@robertcooke9299]

A former PM who has aged and matured well to become a quality red …

[@huwzebediahthomas9193]

He struggled with 'the bastards' in the 1990's. Public School boys are so terribly dysfunctional. Like Ken Clarke, both should have stuck with Labour, or some form of it.

[@th8257]

You can hardly describe him as red. The fact that some people think he's red is a testament to the appalling state of the right wing of British politics at the moment.

[@chrispalmer7893]

@@huwzebediahthomas9193 I think the most impressive thing about Major is that having been hammered by the Eurosceptics for so long, having had them shout from the rooftops that if he'd only embraced Euroscepticism he'd never had lost in 1997, when Hague lost just as badly as he did in 2001 despite all of his "Ten Days to Save The Pound" nonsense John didn't tour the TV studios saying "I told you so". Much more restraint than I'd have been able to muster.

[@stephfoxwell4620]

What a ludicrous expectation.

[@mral4381]

The illusion of representation. These guys commenting are either disingenuous or completely out of touch.

[@username5502]

How can a Tory want a classless society? That is one of the most ironic things I have ever heard.

[@CanadianMonarchist]

I don’t see how Labour would want a classless society. They wouldn’t have anything about which to whine.

[@johningham1880]

Which mischievous individual decided to photoshop a greyscale John Major on to a colour background?

[@user-il6ve2vc4i]

Hmmm...I am working class immigrant and colored African mixed-race. So I vote Labour Party. So I vote Bame Labour. My MP at the office location is male black, my MP at the new address is female Asian. I work in startups and green fintech So I vote Green-Labour. That's how simple dat is.

[@angusmckenzie9622]

@use-il6ve2vc41 "Hmmm...I am working class immigrant and colored Afric...@ It's a pity you don't vote for the party that you consider best deals with your needs and that of the nation. That's the ideal. I'm older. One of the 2 major parties, where I live, in the past drummed out of it my parents and others of our regio-ethnicity and the other wouldn't have permitted my parents to join, same reason. For most of the earlier part of my life I voted for the expeller party. For the past 10 years, now, I've settled on the latter, the forbidder. It's policies best suit my vision for the nation. Try that.

[@paulies5407]

So you vote labour purely for race reasons. Nice. I think white people ought to start doing the same.

[@paulies5407]

@@angusmckenzie9622and how about you try to write a comment in simple English instead of trying to come off as intelligent? Cause it ain’t working pal

[@angusmckenzie9622]

@@paulies5407 "...and how about you try to write a comment in simple English instead of tryin..." Look who has an inferiority complex. Did yoou miss your weekly psych session ?

[@TheWaveGoodbye-Music]

A conservative wanting a classless society? Sounds awfully socialist to me 😂😂

[@lestrem11]

Major is second in the list ofBritains worst PM’S only marginally better the Gordon ( the bluffer ) Brown….

[@SplashTasty]

delusional

[@lestrem11]

@@SplashTasty They certainly are.👍

[@antonoat]

Two people here who excelled at showing complete contempt for the British public and between them caused many problems which are still causing very serious issues today! I wish they’d both disappear 😡😡😡