Void to Hoid! Dragonsteel 2022 Words of Brandon 1 | Shardcast

[@TravisGafford]

I love WOB episodes

[@Horsethe666]

I think they should have 1 random listener for every host during wob episodes. I want to to get real weird with theories.

[@michaelmason5739]

Yo Travis is a Cosmere fan??? You should start slipping in Stormlight References into LCS stuff

[@Kabissz]

They're like a collective of short stories or a plate of delicious tapas shared with awesome fans

[@kvothethearcane146]

You know pure chaos is afoot when Evgeni has to try to rein people in...

[@_argent]

It's truly the end times

[@barnes9211]

"Twine and duct-tape sort of immortality" is the most hilarious thing I've heard this year

[@kvothethearcane146]

Damn, I missed WOB episodes, and now we get a 3 hour one??? HELL YEAH.

[@ania96157]

My crazy new theory about the contest of cahmpions is this: Taravangian is his own champion and when he goes to smithe Dalinar , it turns out that Dalinar was born in Karbrandth

[@Silas_MN]

that would be hysterical

[@sachinavutu9181]

This is amazing

[@Purrplegal98]

Bavadin's avatar has a Hoid-o-meter, that's how the avatar knows who he is and how to kick him off the planet

[@HSuper_Lee]

If I wasn't already subscribed, that wobbuffet pun would have sealed it.

[@heatherrockwell9012]

"Mortals are so far beneath me, and so insignificant" Are we sure this is a hypothetical, Evgeni?

[@_argent]

Shush, I have to pretend I am not being serious when I say things like that

[@heatherrockwell9012]

@@_argent Don't worry, everyone thinks often about being a god. I think. If this is not a common experience, I never said this.

[@patrickhill8494]

Specific effect of Honor's Splintering which we know causes some of the magic to act differently: Honor can no longer impose limits on the extent of a Bondsmith's powers. It has been stated multiple times by the Stormfather, and I think some of the other spren have talked about it. Essentially it makes me think that now Dalinar, Navanni, and Ishar can now bondsmith on the level that Ishar could leading up to the destruction of Ashen.

[@2thechase]

Haha if the Lord Ruler's child is in Mistborn Era 3, then Brandon would need to begin the book with "The Dead Speak!" and end it with them saying their last time is Kelsier. Perfect storytelling.

[@peaceofcrap]

Eric and I said "I mean they're not crabs" simultaneously when I was watching this video for the first time. Incredible

[@17thShard]

Have a meme template (from 1:50:07 ): cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/572202622971543583/1079469737630761051/skai_meme_template.png Alyx's meme at the end is based off this: knowyourmeme.com/memes/stop-doing-math

[@Haxerous]

25:40 It makes perfect sense to me. A perfect gem has a flawless and perfectly ordered (also symmetrical in all directions) crystal lattice. Honor/Stromlight has a lot to do with order / structure at least when it comes to its rhythms. So once the stormlight enters it it doesn't want to leave because the perfect gemstone is a reflection of / matches the rhythms (and perhaps Intent?) of stormlight. The stormlight is probably attracted to the gemstones due to the orderliness of their crystal lattices. It's just that it is a more sung fit in a perfect gem compared to an imperfect gem and so it doesn't have a reason to escape.

[@heatherrockwell9012]

That doesn't make much sense because, besides investiture not having worked that way in the past, you can also put voidlight, towerlight, and warlight in gems- and those don't originate from shards with the same intent. Additionally, it's described less that way, and more as the investiture leaking out of the imperfections in the crystals, indicating that it doesn't choose to be there, but just sits there and leaks if there are holes. On an unrelated note, "intent" as in the intent of a shard is lowercase- uppercase Intent applies to the Intent used in a magic system (as in the Intent to create a hemalurgic spike).

[@_argent]

I can get behind something like "the perfect structure matches the frequencies of Investiture and reflects it back." I doubt that's Brandon's rationale but it could be just justification.

[@GrantParker]

I think of it in a similar but slightly different way. I think it's resonance. NOT related to intent, but that scale of lattice resonates with the rhythms to reflect them inside perfectly.

[@mordirit8727]

@@heatherrockwell9012 counterpoint: we don't really know how Voidlight interacts with perfect gems. We _do_ know, however, that the incredibly imperfect and completely uncut gemhearts of the singers can hold Voidlight without ever leaking any of it out. So it might very well be that Voidlight behaves the same way Stormlight does for the same reasons Ashlin theorized, just on the opposite end of the scale: the more imperfect and chaotic the crystal structure, the better it stays there. As for all else, we've never had those lights examined long enough and under enough types of gems to know anything about it. The one and only issue I see with the idea is that perfect gems are also capable of indefinitely holding an Unmade. If this theory were true and my add on to it also tracked, you'd think an Unmade would leak out of a perfect gem in mere moments... But then again, spren trapping in spheres isn't exactly the same mechanics as light infusing them, like, even something as small as a single flamespren can't ever leak out of even the most imperfect gems.

[@joeybelasco]

Lol that final who's that Cosmere character was absolutely hilarious. Eric's laugh is so precious

[@meghananderson4777]

Alyx you absolutely kill me. You have such interesting things to say! Love you, love your lipstick

[@Zameenee57]

*SPOILERS FOR WHO'S THAT COSMERE CHARACTER* I actually guessed Sazed immediately after the first clue of the final WTCC. The phrasing of "Uses an invested sword", particularly the word "uses" made me think of Wax and as the clues went on I felt more and more sure. This is one of the few WTCC I got right as well so having everyone else be stumped felt great!

[@sebenotblank9487]

Damn, I got stuck on the "uses" immediately too. But I thought of Demoux and the fight where he was "directed" by Kelsier who infused his sword. Could have also losely counter for 2. I wasn't sure if he had ever met Hoid. But he is also famous. Only when the last clue came it threw my guess off. Lesson: If you got your first answer, keep on looking for better answers. :D

[@VoidLantadd]

I got it on clue four and it felt like a revelation. Really good WTCC.

[@andrewszanto1216]

This episode is so much fun, and I really hope to see some sort of showdown between oath 5 kaladin and a full twin born before they realize they were manipulated and they team up

[@stevenrockstad9056]

Haven’t even watched it yet but I’ve been waiting for this one

[@bennparrish8556]

I got Sazed after turn 4 and the proceeding 10 minutes of guesses, starting with Alyx saying, "It has to be a Herald" was such exquisite pain.

[@barnes9211]

Nothing makes my Sunday like a nice WoB shardcast while I feverishly come up with new, completely insane headcanons.

[@k-majik]

I'm so glad WoB episodes are back, it's the only way I hear about any of them most of the time.

[@edwardstanford7683]

If Kelsier died in the prologue of Era 3 I would be ecstatic. Justice for Alyx

[@JessietheSleepyKoala]

Turns out disliking the ‘Wax is Harmony Sword’ idea quite as much as I do, does come in handy for WTCC like the third one in this episode.

[@17thShard]

I can confirm having watched this with Jess she got that last WTCC on clue one. -Eric

[@Toe_Jamson]

TeeJay here, glad yall could discuss my wob! I was also the guy who walked up to yall and brought up Shallan's potential 5th ideal. It was nice to meet you!

[@davidmorales-dm7xm]

3 hours of WOBs, just nice!

[@Silas_MN]

absolute top form from everybody on this episode, especially Alyx! more Alyx on WOB episodes please! also that end screen was just *chef's kiss*

[@storyspren]

Alyx should check if she can still use her metalminds after that time dilation discussion 😂

[@SneakyTogedemaru]

HOID IS JUST JOHNNY THE COMBO PLAYER OF COSMERE! Brilliant, Alyx, simply brilliant!

[@mordirit8727]

1:29:20 I think it's definitely "producing the same effect without having the same amount of energy." Speed Bubbles aren't (or at least shouldn't be) just pure Investiture dilating time by merely existing, they are specifically created for time shenanigans. For an easy comparison, try to compare how much gasoline you'd need to blow up to send a car flying 100 feet away with how much gasoline the car would consume to drive that same distance. One method is getting the job done by just stuffing as much fuel as possible, the other is actually using the mechanics of the given material to work out. In that sense, Wayne was driving a car at the end of TLM, while the Stormfather blew up more gasoline than has ever existed on Earth to give Kaladin a few seconds in RoW

[@Narrative_Ink]

Ah yes let me just lay back and relax to some deep realmatics

[@ThePoliticsMajor]

Not me screaming "Sazed" with a huge grin on my face during the last WTCC.

[@ErratumCDIV]

I feel like The Scar/Red Rip/Starbelt/etc. is an example of an effect of a splintering we've seen but not had attributed to it directly.

[@carlsmith4568]

It’s about damn time ! Jk but seriously I can’t wait to listen to this during my commute this week.

[@ChBrahm]

Feather´s comment about Honor and Cultivation luring Odium into Roshar makes a lot of sense. Honor, of course, doing the honorable thing would sacrifice himself to trap Odium And Cultivation just planted a seed and wants to see what will grow out of it

[@SamBruehl]

That tricky WTCC was the first time I've correctly guessed when everyone else was stumped. Made my day.

[@Sheija]

Rhea's Tear = Riyah the honorspren who was friends with Leshwi before the Desolations

[@17thShard]

It's actually Reya's Tear! -Eric

[@Sheija]

@@17thShard whoops yeah that’s what I meant 👀

[@da5idt]

I guessed Sazed right after "Interacted with Hoid". Eric was being too smug about the sword clue.

[@kgaster25]

Really wanted an exodia reference when talking about combining the powers😅 Edit: AND THEN MARVIN GAVE IT TO ME AT THE VERY END. The last comment of the episode! Love it. And love the show!!

[@jaysemitchells497]

having not read TES, knowing that there's someone called Weedfingers is WILD

[@jamestandy8594]

1:39:57 This is the entire plot of Dragon's Egg by Robert Forward (which is set in our universe - an alien species that evolves on a neutron star) 2:06:48 I'm convinced he sometimes drops stuff like this just to mess with you guys

[@juanma300698]

Feather HATES kelsiers gut's and we love her for that. even when she's wrong

[@harveyweir8061]

Very proud of myself for guessing the final WTCC even before clue 5! Great episode everyone

[@viengua8561]

I (unfortunately for believability) guessed Sazed on clue 1, since I was looking for clever ways it would work.

[@godminnette2]

I legitimately did get the final WTCC, and it's the first one I've gotten in at least like four episodes, too! I didn't even expect it to be right, I thought it was more an amusing guess that technically fit the clues.

[@jeremy6268]

I guessed the last wtcc correctly! I had to pause the video and think about it for a good 10 minutes and boy did I get exited when I turned out to be right. Lol

[@geosustento8894]

1:13:00 I think Alyx's gripe is a matter of personal taste. There really isn't a problem with both traumatic and voluntary Splintering be considered Splintering. A bloodless revolt (like what happened in the 1980s Philippines) and a violent revolt (like what happened in Haiti) are both revolutions. They both ended up with a country with newfound freedom from oppressors. There doesn't need ro be a different term for these two types of revolutions. They just are.

[@Stormhawk777]

2:33:30 Fuck yes, YGO is exploding right now, cool to hear you guys have some general knowledge of it

[@17thShard]

POT OF GREED, WHAT DOES IT DO?? -Eric

[@timothyibrahim9598]

Thanks for covering my gemstone question!

[@rahulrajendrannair]

#47 To act honorable without other emotions is easy. But imagine having Honor despite a raging hatred of Odium inside you. Whoa that would be awesome to see Odius Honor. The trap theory looks more promising.

[@drakedecker4874]

Kelsier enters a contract with Autonomy. Discord helps Kelsier write it up. Discord leaves it open for Kelsier to take over the shard of Autonomy with the instruction to continue to protect Scadrial. Kelsier's basic pitch... "Use me, the technology and the resources of Harmony and Scadrial.. to protect Scadrial from enemies foreign and domestic.. but you cannot come to the system, or send any avatar or any other person here. Oh.. and also.. you must never be able allowed to control me, my mind, or my words unless given temporary permission.

[@xy7596]

I actually had Sazed as a possible guess between clue 4 and 5(the use of the word "sword" instead of blade was kinda suspicious and i though someone might try and pull that trick :) ) Regarding the smiting thing, doesnt Odium tell Taravangian that he would be able to smite people who broke their agreement without the usual consequences because they loose their protection? So that would be the Situation Hoid is in until the Champions Deal. That he is totally smiteable by Odium if Odium ever sees him

[@mattwilcoxuk]

I would imagine a "perfect crystalline structure holds stormlight in place" because it's close to a pure expression of a pure concept in the physical realm. It's near perfect: and investiture is also a very pure expression of a comsmological idea.

[@HSuper_Lee]

To answer the question about why a perfect crystalline structure holds stormlight, could it be due to Honor being a god of order and structure and therefore perfect patterns are well suited to holding onto its Investiture?

[@Crowned_PvP]

gems can hold more than just stormlight so that might not be accurate.

[@Aldric524]

@@Crowned_PvP Yeah. I was going to point out that gems hold voidlight even better (at least that's what I recall), and voidlight is about as far from order and structure as you can get.

[@tylereisen8745]

"Odium is a top" new favorite head canon

[@najawin8348]

I guess the "failure modes" of Whimsy and Invention are that Whimsy could be one of the fae folk, and Invention could be a Cyberman.

[@SS-mn6kh]

Do love WOB episodes!

[@ClayInvictus]

Bonus points for Alyx's constant Destiny-references.

[@obadiahjohnson4358]

Talking about the theory that Honor and Cultivation allowed Odium into the system to take him out: I think that Odium knew that it was a trap, but played dumb since he potentially had the Autonomy card up his sleeve. He took out Honor, but failed to get Cultivation before her (or her and Honor's) plan worked. Though how they knew nightblood would end up in Roshar is baffling, or it just happened to be a perfect opportunity.

[@deanexikanas1988]

Haha I actually guessed the last WTCC question on the 3rd clue. First (and probably only time) and I'm so happy! 😀😀😀

[@PeteSudlow]

Spoiler for WTCC . . . . . . . . . . Oh that last Who's That Cosmere Character - chef's kiss! Great clues, hard to guess and the panel's reaction once it was revealed was wonderful! I have been waiting for a clue referring to Wax as a sword. I had it after the third clue because of that one. Great job submitter!

[@davidcard2536]

I guessed Sazed on the first clue. The wording screamed red herring to me.

[@SneakyTogedemaru]

26:03 - my theory on that is that stormlight somehow "adjusts its wavelength" to the grid size of the type of gem it fills, and so as long as that structure is perfect it just bounces around inside of it, but on any imperfection that perfectly adjusted to the grid wavelength reflects in a different way and that eventually adds up in the process of bouncing all around and so some part of the light just misses the atoms or something. Head-canon though. With stormlight storming inside of the gems and Lopen claiming that light from different types of gems "tastes differently" and similar "taste" thing being mentioned jokingly by I think Syl or some other spren that's the theory I landed on for myself

[@AdventurerPrimefire]

Why is the money not base 16? That is a huge miss for the worldbuilding.

[@Aldric524]

I mean, I upvoted you because that's an awesome comment. But actually thinking about translating hex-money in my head to base 10 makes me shudder. So while I loved your comment, I'm very glad it isn't the case. And sure, you might ask why I needed to translate the money in the first place, since it's not real. And I say BECAUSE!

[@zibus8456]

Watching this after SSp3. Now my headcannon for Design's Investiture box is a Hoidometer.

[@ElijahStormblessed]

36:38 The most interesting part of this WOB to me is that Brandon seemed very intentional about the phrase "sense of decorum and self worth," and almost that exact phrase appears in Tress (relating to Hoid's situation, I believe?)....

[@Haxerous]

Doesn't Lift also "hover between the realms"? I forgot who said that (the stormfather may be?). I think Lifts would fit those clues as well. (except for the napping thing perhaps).

[@Diddykartdui]

2:04:36 a thought building on what Eric is saying: with what we know about avatars, it seems like autonomy only puts them where either a) she is unopposed by other shards (Taldain) b) the ruling shard is dead or indisposed (sel,scadrial) - seems like a shard making an avatar might be on a similar tier to smiting mortals in terms of it being an action that opens you up to other shards hurting you. My headcanon is that it has something to do with creating the planet itself, or humans on that planet yourself, something (I think) endowment did, who is the only confirmed shard to have smiting capability

[@joshwhite8862]

:O i guessed Sazed on first clue as Roshar felt too obvious, but i didn't think he fit the last clue (didn't think of kandra) and got well confused haha. Probably helps that i've been binging casts and had just watched one where you referred to Wax as the sword loooooots of times, serendipity ftw.

[@storyspren]

The one about the crystal structure being important to hold stormlight has me wondering. Most diamonds probably come from gemhearts, meaning the carbon in them comes from the carbon cycle and not deep underground. And it forms within the lifetime of the animal it came from, so not a very long time geologically speaking. That means there's gonna be carbon-14 in them, about the same amount as you'd expect to find in the animal's other remains (maybe a little less since the gemheart material probably isn't cycled out as quickly or at all during life). Carbon-14 is radioactive, it decays into nitrogen-14. So, over thousands of years as the carbon-14 in gemheart diamonds decays, it gets these impurities of nitrogen locked into its crystal structure, the same way lead gets stuck in zircon. So when it comes to perfect gemstones and their ability to store stormlight, diamonds are *not* forever, they lose their perfection over a long enough timeline, no matter where you store them. Unless you're really careful to minimize the amount of carbon-14 in making them. P.S. "Twine and duct tape sort of immortality" is the best way I've heard that described and I'll be including that in my own vocabulary now!

[@troyharbpro]

I am so proud of myself for guessing the last Who’s That Cosmere Charactwr 😂 I never get them right so it’s a big deal to me

[@trolledchaos6531]

WOB-BUFFET I actually laughed OUT LOUD at that joke. Gg Eric Edit: In case you were wondering why I am commenting on this at 3 am my time: I will continue to watch 17th shard vids on repeat on my tv FOREVER and NONE OF YOU CAN STOP ME! (Sorry if I woke you up with this comment)

[@BigBendLane]

By the third clue I guessed the last witcc. I was yelling at my phone for a solid few minutes when the herald train started!

[@Supaawesomeification]

I’d actually push back against the “no super magic system” point. We’ve already seen that combining allomancy and feruchemy creates compounding which is functionally similar to a super magic system combining two known ones. Plus after RoW, we know that resonance between different shard’s investiture is possible. I can totally see weird crazy new stuff happening when combining all the invested arts

[@Pablo360able]

Compounding is more like the "overpowered MTG combo" idea.

[@ElijahStormblessed]

I DID get that last WTCC, but only because I was scrolling through comments while watching this episode and saw people talking about it already (':

[@2thechase]

I think it's a big assumption that Honor and Cultivation had the same intentions in trapping Odium... Never trust a dragon!

[@stone7858]

I love it!!!! Wob episode ftw

[@wraith.ferron]

How dare you all? I have things to do, which are being delayed by watching an excellent 3 hour long WoB episode. For shame.

[@junkmejunkie]

Just a thought about the shard splintering question… My first thoughts were about autonomy’s avatars but then I wondered if he’s actually talking about a different shard. Is it a possibility that Honor wasn’t actually forcibly splintered but willingly splintered himself without anyone else knowing. That would explain why his splintering is so different than the destruction from the other shattered shards and why Dalinar can do what he does. It also makes me wonder if the shattered plains could be one of the effects he’s talking about. I do also like Argents thoughts about threnody though, and I can see that also being true.

[@ianeggleston9991]

I agree that we need a different term between voluntary and forced splintering, so I’ll put forward for voluntary splintering the term shedding

[@DontTickleGandalf]

When they’re talking about the cognitive shadow being used for later use, aren’t they just talking about Odium using the voidbringers?

[@sandrar4981]

Always imagined Skai as the older brother somehow. Weird that Brandon thought so long about that 🤔

[@enbyglitch]

My current take is that there will be a Resonance that arises by Hoid getting access to investitute from every Shard

[@Vintagegaston]

I think the smiting had to do with other shards in the area. Endowment is alone, but Odium is not. If he extends himself to much, he might leave himself open to Cultivation, who although hidden is still there

[@NavidSensei]

Yes, Eric. this WAS a fun episode.

[@DemolitionDane]

Guessed the last wtcc the moment Eric said sword and watching them squirm through it was so funny 😅

[@darahorcasitas9761]

I totally guessed Sazed! I was unsure bc if the sword clue, but it was the last clue and the kandra that had me thinking him! I literally threw my hands in the air in victory lol

[@VoidLantadd]

On the time dilation topic-we have evidence for worldhoppers experiencing different levels of time dilation when moving between planets. I doubt Felt is ageless. Could be wrong, but he seems like just an ordinary guy trying to make his way in the Cosmere. Him turning up on Roshar 300 years after being on Scadrial suggests he experienced time dilation while traveling from Scadrial to Roshar. Meanwhile, Hoid made the return trip in record time. He travelled from Roshar to Scadrial in under 15 years relative to time on both planets. So he must have a way to avoid the same time dilation.

[@Haxerous]

2:22:24 Can't wait for Organic Vegan Twinborn (TM) to be a thing in Era 4

[@ElijahStormblessed]

27:37 I'm picturing it like a coffee filter now, and you can add or remove Stormlight easily from above, but it leaks out before more slowly.... Which makes me wonder if there's something to be said about whether that Investiture is acting more like it's in the physical realm vs spiritual realm? Idk, I don't think there's anything to that last thought lol

[@shackledore]

I love the wobbufet joke.

[@obadiahjohnson4358]

Did someone submit that last slide about stop releasing WOBs?

[@17thShard]

It's a meme Alyx made that she referenced here haha. -Eric

[@tangerinebasket]

1:08:33 saving the inventing therapy timestamp for myself

[@connor_phillipz5689]

On the topic of Fullborns and the potential of Hoid becoming one. I could 100% see a world where Scadrians in Era 3 or 4 figure out a way to splice the genes of a Feruchemist to allow for "artifical" Feruchemy which Hoid would 100% partake in. (Assuming there isn't an easier way to do it)

[@trielt1]

25:40, regarding perfect gems It's a key. As I interpret it, perfect gems are like the correct alloy for the Metallic Arts, or a perfectly drawn Aon, or the most perfect Command coupled with a perfectly shaped vessel for Awakening.

[@obviousalias132]

I wonder if the Grand Apparatus novel deals with the society that rises and falls in several seconds due to time dilation. Like could time dilation be the purpose of the Grand Apparatus?

[@labiancami]

Hey guys, a question for you to debate some day. If before the recreance, radiants and spren were bonded, why all the weapons were only blades? Was there no radiant that prefer another kind of weapon? I know the issue with the thunderclasts, but... No shardspear, or shardpolearm or sharddagger? :(

[@God-nw9qd]

Can't wait to see my Wob on 16 get discussed in 2 years

[@peaceofcrap]

I was SCREAMING at my phone during the third WTCC

[@peaceofcrap]

I got it on clue 3 Alyx

[@jaysemitchells497]

2.29.20 is it ever implied that Adonalsium had a personality. It feels interesting that the name is similar to the name of metals. Adonalsium could be a thing that was shattered into 16 (maybe 17) shards. I think combining all the shards together will functionally recreate Adonalsium because of all the investiture present

[@Tephr1te]

for the last WTCC question i realised that sword was a wax misdirection between the 2nd and 3rd clue - when is a sword not a sword? when it's a dawnshot