VORON Design at RMRRF - Steal These Designs

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Sovol SV-08
Bambu Lab A1 P1P P1S X1C
Creality Edner 3 K1 K2
0:00 Voron V0
2:03 Voron Micron
2:29 M4 Bowden Extruder
4:36 Sponsor Segment
5:31 Open-Source Business Model
6:55 Thoughts on the SV-08
7:35 Community Organization
8:17 Voron Discord
10:12 Outtro
10:34 Mark of The Voron

[@iiianydayiii]

man, I like Voron. the community can be a bit elitist but their generosity and originality is refreshing.

[@docholiday6964]

Nathan is the most awkward person to talk to. This entire conversation just made me cringe.

[@charlesraes8541]

It’s just the fact this guy has such passion and Nathan just kept putting him down 😆 Respect for him not getting pissed off one bit!

[@SnakebitSTI]

Nathan really seemed to want him to be angry or upset or something that someone used his open source project in accordance with the terms of its license? It is worth stating; don't release something under the GPLv3 if you don't want other people to take your work and sell it. But the people at Voron clearly understand what the license terms mean.

[@davedempsey5282]

This guy makes me want to donate to Voron.

[@billverine765]

You picked the best booth to stop at Nathan. The Voron project has done more to improve 3D printers than anything else and they deserve to be recognized and lauded for their efforts. I think as long as companies donate back to Voron when they use their open source designs in a commercial product, it is fine. I do take issue with for profit companies not donating back and then I would consider it stealing. You have to give Sovol credit for doing so without being shamed by the community, and they made the printer affordable and accessible for folks who either couldn't afford or don't have the technical chops to build a real one.

[@NathanBuildsRobots]

I agree, voron and a couple other open source projects really paved the way for the current high speed designs

[@planckstudios]

"direct drive is better" you know, I've felt this way for a while, I think I can say it out loud too. After hearing it from the definitive source in 3D printing news

[@cybervitor]

That ad read was SUPER smooth

[@NathanBuildsRobots]

Sunglasses = ad read 😎

[@The2pcio]

IMO it would be better for everyone if people like him made projects like voron opensource for consumers, paid for companies. They would get salary.

[@NathanBuildsRobots]

Yeah, Ratrig has a slightly different model. Open source non-commercial license. It’s interesting to see how these groups/companies manage IP differently. Okay, maybe it’s not that interesting, but it’s interesting to me 🥲

[@ScottHess]

I bet Sovol will give them dozens if not hundreds of dollars.

[@The2pcio]

@@ScottHess correct me if i am wrong, sovol pays 2$ on envery sv08 sold. It is better than nothing but considering they've got all designs it's not that much

[@The2pcio]

@@NathanBuildsRobots it's interesting to me too. How to manage opensource team of develropers, how to mange modders community and for example pay them for their innovations. Maybe it's worth to made videos about it and potentially bring new people and companies with more open/opensource direction of management

[@ScottHess]

@@The2pcio Don't get me wrong - $2 is better than $0. But it is almost certain that the SV08 will support employment of dozens of fulltime people at Sovol, and the contributions to Voron will not add up to any fulltime support. To be clear, my main complaint is in making this some sort of marketing point for Sovol. I don't think the Voron team really cares that much about it. Donate, or don't, but don't try to make out like buying these products supports the Voron team.

[@viyer00]

I want that 35mm^2 baby Voron so bad.

[@NathanBuildsRobots]

Hmm, if it was a little smaller with a self contained power supply you could just throw it in a backpack and secretly print while going about your day

[@alexanderdiogenes8067]

It's so dumb I love it I must build one.

[@RBallarddesigns]

I enjoy that NBR is the definitive source for 3Dprinting news

[@mamatuja]

This business model is just a model no business.😂😂😂

[@NathanBuildsRobots]

I’m not sure I’m ready to invest

[@mamatuja]

@@NathanBuildsRobots You don't have to, you can just download it for free.😀

[@linhungsamify]

Nathan, please review Troodon 2.0 Pro and 2.0 Pro Mini, they are Voron clone just like SV08. Ideally if you can demo/review tool changer

[@NathanBuildsRobots]

If they want to send me one I’ll say yes please

[@TheButchersbLock]

The last 10 seconds were absolute gold 😂. I mean how dare you show the secret tattoo on the KZbin’s. you need to be at least a level 10sigma before you can do that 😮

[@alexanderdiogenes8067]

I LOOOOVE my Voron Switchwire. Incredible discord. Great folks.

[@NathanBuildsRobots]

Their discord is quite a good one. I’m surprised the discord moderator wasn’t like “yup we have to ban people all the time”

[@rodrigofarruguia1708]

If you leaned on my printer like that, i would kick you out of my workshop.

[@5Lax]

Good to see the people behind Voron.... It was fun imagining them as a secret society obsessed with print speeds before watching this video.

[@Zachary3DPrints]

Great video dude, Voron's are cool

[@davedempsey5282]

Nathan, you seem to keep leaning in to the SV08 being a rip off or cheat... or am I misreading you? And things you have said?

[@NathanBuildsRobots]

Idk, I’m just providing an alternative/dissenting opinion. I like it, it’s a good printer. The value they are gaining from a marketing and advertising perspective, by making it directly comparable to the 2.4 is huge. And I think people should be aware of the ethics of building a commercial product while benefiting from open source generosity. I don’t have all the answers or definitive opinions, but it’s just interesting to me. For what it’s worth, I think Sovol is doing a good job by open sourcing their design and paying back to the voron project.

[@davedempsey5282]

@@NathanBuildsRobots OK but it feels like you are pushing back against something that was ethical to begin with. All people see is the pushback. And there is a lot of pushback from the Voron enthusiast community. And you are def leaning into the narrative that it is bad/wrong. He clearly said it's what was intended, and is happy that Sovol opened the whole project. Feels like you need to let go of your personal thing about it. Maybe.

[@chrismay2298]

@@davedempsey5282 Genius marketing on the part of many in this saga. One reviewer that is basically a Sovol employee, one Voron team member who states it's simply not a voron, which it isn't, and a company that knows how to use a very popular name and design, cheap it down enough to sell by the literal boatload and kick back a few bucks for the privilege. Business doesn't have to be emotional.

[@NathanBuildsRobots]

I think it’s better to voice different opinions and have people come to their own conclusions. For instance, Gregg thinks the SV-08 is a cool homage. Others think it’s in poor taste. It’s fine, actually it’s good, to have dissent in opinions. Otherwise we’re just in lock-step like PR repa

[@davedempsey5282]

You miss the point. There IS NO LOSER HERE. Voron doesn't sell things. Sovol does. They took Voron's design work and implemented it in a way that made it a viable commercial product at a silly price point. Since when is something manufactured and pretty much finished less than a bunch of parts you assemble? It's a good deal for the buyers, Voron fans lose NOTHING, and 3d printing gets a new 1 step over entry level benchmark system. People pretending an open source system that is adopted for sale but is kept open source is somehow cheating or stealing is stupid. There is no loser here.

[@cleisonarmandomanriqueagui9176]

But what do they sell at the end ? i guess the part to make that 3d printers if not how to gain money? I also love the opensource community

[@SnakebitSTI]

They sell t-shirts and sweatshirts with their logo. They also accept donations.

[@txwombat7826]

Yep - Voron Discord was great when I ran into issues setting up canbus

[@hamthomas4715]

At least the SV08 has FINALLY gotten NBR to move past being dumped by BL...

[@NathanBuildsRobots]

🥲

[@StephenWestrip]

You really don’t understand what open source is. You pushed the same ‘being ripped off’ line repeatedly even though it was brushed aside. A terrible interview by you.

[@NathanBuildsRobots]

By the end of RMRRF I think I’m starting to get it. Coming from a corporate mechanical engineering background, the idea of giving away your IP made 0 sense to me

[@StephenWestrip]

@@NathanBuildsRobots I work for a commercial software company so I get why it is not at first an easy concept to understand. A software company like RedHat, which develops software using an open source model and licensing it under a GPL license gets its revenue from their support offering. CentOS is a straight clone of RedHat with the changes made to some names to make sure they adhere to the GPL license. Voron is a bit different in that it isn’t commercial at all. It sells nothing! It gets donations to help with R&D costs but that is it from what I understand. Open source is used in this instance as a mechanism to improve their offering. Many great minds and all that.

[@HybridRobotix]

Your continued use of the term "steal designs" and similar with respect to the Voron designs for 3D Printers is really ANNOYING. Please stop referring to taking designs from Voron as stealing, which it is not. Voron gives their designs to the community. Voron is not a business. People can not and do not steal anything from Voron.

[@OscarOliu]

I mean, respectfully, it's definitely stealing, if you just change something slightly and call it your own. You can "Feel" however you want about it, but it's pretty clear it's as close to the definition of stealing as it can get. And he's referring to people using their designs and selling them, I'm certain he doesn't mean modders or open source people.

[@NathanBuildsRobots]

Ok, help me come up with an alternate title!

[@NathanBuildsRobots]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steal_This_Album!

[@hurzelgnurk]

@@NathanBuildsRobots I vote for "Appropriate", sounds nice ^^

[@HybridRobotix]

@@OscarOliu You apparently do not understand Open Source. All of Voron's Designs are Open Source. You take and make what you want with the designs. It is NOT stealing.

[@stevesmith-sb2df]

Bowden still works quite well Nathan.

[@NathanBuildsRobots]

Fact. It’s only longer Bowdens that aren’t built properly that have an issue

[@bridgetclinch3678]

I love my 0.1

[@riba2233]

next time ask them about active chamber heaters :D

[@MrUandB]

Iirc the issue isn't adding one, it's that chamber heaters are somewhat more dangerous to implement. That said, bed fans and recirc fans do very well getting up to 50-70c

[@riba2233]

@@MrUandB I know but it is a touchy subject for them, but it can be designed with safety in mind.

[@NathanBuildsRobots]

K, will ask them next time 😁

[@riba2233]

@@NathanBuildsRobots haha nice 😁

[@pennywisdom2099]

There's plenty of people who don't know what a slicer is, a lot of them own a bambu lab 😅

[@NathanBuildsRobots]

They call it a “studio” How hip and cool 😎 Very Apple of them to make up their own phrases and market them to the masses. I say this while looking at my retina fluid motion display and type it with Taptic engine feedback

[@pennywisdom2099]

@@NathanBuildsRobots I also have a Bambu 🙈 but I've done a klipper as well

[@br3nz3l]

I'm enjoying my Bambu and my Ender 5 S1 with Orcaslicer (fyi). I am allergic to elitist turds like OP here who talk down to everyone who is not an engineer or the like. When I get a whiff of a snob, I must reply. Well, OP, why don't you just do something useful and educate some of these the newbies on all the ins and outs of a slicer. Instead of just sitting in your 3d printed, carbon fiber PEEK tower tapping away nonsense. Greg seems like an awesome person who just wants to create, share and get anyone to learn and contribute. So unlike OP. Nathan, I'm here for your honest, awkward self talking about stuff I love. ❤

[@5Lax]

We all have Bambu's @@pennywisdom2099

[@riba2233]

@@NathanBuildsRobots every slicer has it's own terms for same features, so nothing special

[@FrodeBergetonNilsen]

Voron is not publishing their source files. They claim not to need to publish the parametric files of their work. Publishing step files, that often times are flawed to the moon, is not open source. I simply cannot reproduce their designs from source. They simply do not share it.