VORON0.1 Kits COMPAIRED: PERFORMANCE TEST (PART 2)

[@247printing]

For future buyers it's a consideration between saving money (Formbot: wiring/crimping) or build convenience (LDO is prepared for almost "plug'n'play"). And don't forget: The parts of both kits could be subject for changes. Above all: Formbot changes the parts of their kits very often!

[@3DBearnicorn]

Great review! It's fascinating how little impact the highflow variant had on print speed. I'm sure that can be improved as in the 247 V0 and it proves that upgrading the hotend is mostly useless without other upgrades to compliment. Thanks for the effort you put into this video!

[@247printing]

Thanks a lot Adam! You nailed it and that's what I wanted to try to state with the Triforce of Speed: You would need to work on a balance of the mutually interacting factors.

[@naidta9802]

very entertaining deep dive into speed quality printing! i really like the triforce of speed !

[@turtel5649]

i really like this review --> very entertaining, all main aspects are included, the information was on point and the review really honest. it didnt feel like an sponsored and "bought" review to make advertisement.....the triforce of speed is a really good summary about speedprinting and opend my eyes. also the glimpse at your configurations helped me a lot. i am happy to hear that you are recommending the ldo kit, as i just got mine this week ;)

[@247printing]

Wow Turtel, thanks a lot for your analyses and I am glad you liked it! Thanks for your efforts on this comment❤

[@Mobile_Dom]

you know ive been waiting for this for a while, I'm excited for it

[@247printing]

hey man, thanks you tuned in - I hope you like it. Please tell me what you didn't like :)

[@ensoniq2k]

As a German (Austrian :-D) speaker I really liked the conclusion at the end!

[@danieldeutschen]

Sehr geiles Video Albert! Genau die richtige Balance zwischen Technik und Unterhaltung. Weiter so!

[@247printing]

Danke Daniel, freut mich sehr, dass du es so siehst!

[@TheJacklwilliams]

Dude, I love every aspect of your work. Thorough, well presented and hilarious. I just got my second printer, cube, SV05, and it moved me into the world of auto bed leveling, a fixed z that only goes up and down and? A board that I can now move into the world of Klipper. So, lot’s of lessons coming my way. After I get that digested, next move is a Voron and I’m thinkin this little guy right here will be the perfect next step. Thanks for the great info. Priceless.

[@247printing]

Jack, thank you very much for your comment and for your time writing it. Honestly appreciated to read viewers' insights like this and I am very happy to know that my work can help people!

[@ichhalt1063]

Albert was ein Video!! es ist endlich soweit. Grüße Robert

[@ichhalt1063]

der neue Style von deinem Video ist echt Klasse

[@247printing]

@@ichhalt1063 Robert, ich danke dir so much! :) :) :) Bitte nicht schüchtern sein und mir auch sagen, was dir evtl. nicht gefällt :-)

[@derbacksteinbacker4942]

Verry good, informative comaprison. I am looking foward to more of this highly detailed and investigative content!

[@247printing]

Thank you very much 🤩 I’ll continue for sure and I hope you’ll tune in again. Danke and Grüße aus Bayern 👍

[@JonS]

Great video Albert. The cooling-limited speed doesn't surprise me with the mini-AB. We'll have to see how the mini-Stealthburner improves on this when it arrives. I still haven't built my LDO v0.1 kit. I've been focused on my V-Minion. Now I have to contemplate buying new motors before I start the build! Thanks! 😂

[@247printing]

Hey Jon, thanks a lot! There will be a Mini-Stealthburner? That's great news... The cooling limitations were no surprise, but I really thought, that higher speeds due to more E-Flow would be more beneficial - even on that stock machine. In the end it's logical though.

[@JonS]

@@247printing There are some unofficial mini-Stealthburners out there, but my understanding is there will be an official one. I believe NERO3D confirmed that.

[@radmin2]

@@JonS That will be awesome. I was really wishing I had a toolhead led while tuning.

[@antoninjanku3358]

Just binge watched your channel, great stuff! Excellent quality. Und sehr witzig :P

[@MakerMeraki]

A great video! It was both entertaining and informative! Bravo!

[@247printing]

Thanks a lot Joseph!

[@thenextlayer]

Great video, thanks for sharing all of your findings so cogently

[@247printing]

Thanks a lot Jonathan 🎉

[@Raytenecks]

Thanks for these videos. I've been trying to decide what to buy, and I think you've finally convinced me to spend the extra on the LDO kit.

[@highspeedpiTV]

Excellent video bro!! Superb content. Keep it up!!

[@Streamlines]

Funny! I just rewatched the last video of this series and was wondering when the second part would be released!! Guess I am some kind of mind-reader..

[@247printing]

Maybe there is some connection!

[@GAMERSW0RLD]

Winvestigations 😆😂😂 another great video 👌👍

[@247printing]

Thanks a lot, man!

[@alexandroneale4060]

Great chanel! Best 3D wideos on youtube, love your tests.

[@rescuemethod]

Nice in depth comparison. Please include a summary t the end of pros and cons!

[@247printing]

Thanks, that was one of my first videos from two years ago I wouldn't anything anymore to it, sorry.

[@TheGalifrey]

The Moons motors on Formbot Voron 2.0 kits are very smooth IME. Great video, thanks

[@educationalpurposesmostly]

Can you please make a guide on printing profiles, print tuning, and speed printing? I have found lots of support for 2.4, but less for the 0.1. Your print quality and speed is sooo good, and I would like to be able to achive this with my own 0.1.

[@247printing]

It’s on the list! But the list is so long and I am still quite slow in video making :/

[@Manuel-yd7qc]

Also ich hätte auch nicht gedacht das das so ähnlich ist am Ende aber man könnte bestimmt mir einem Coolingmod den Vorteil des High-Flow Hotends ausnutzen und schneller drucken oder? Außerdem mir hat der einspieler am ende echt gut gefallen. Mach weiter so mir machen deine Videos immer viel spaß zu gucken und sind immer sehr interessant. ^^

[@247printing]

Cool, danke Manuel - freut mich sehr, dass du bis zum Ende geschaut hast - die Idee zum Einspieler kam mir auf der Landshuter Dult :) Coolingmod würde den HF Vorteil definitiv pushen - es wird Zeit das demnächst zu machen ;)

[@lausi772]

hahahah "alles derselbe klump" :D

[@Nitram_3d]

what happens if you lower the temperature on the dragon hotend to mach the "flow" on the butterfly??? good video

[@247printing]

Thanks Nitram! Nice idea - you mean Dragonfly?

[@morbus5726]

new hotend leak?????????????

[@manuelmrosa]

I have a formbot voron 2.4 r2 it’s working really good and i order a ldo voron 2.4 r2 to see if is worth it

[@shoeonhead]

Can you link me to blower fans that would work for the hot end? I got the formbot kit and the fans flat out snapped going in because the tolerances were too low. It’s not my ASA printed part. That is perfectly perfect.

[@247printing]

I linked the fans in the video description ☺️

[@shoeonhead]

@@247printing you the best. Heart

[@User-nc2lf]

Really surprised about the Oukeda performance considering the general consensus on them! How did the responses from VFA testers look for those with Oukeda?

[@247printing]

The VFA performance is really good - the speed/torque performance for matters of extreme speed printing is not unfortunately. I’ll maybe come back to this in some video. For regular fast printing they are ok though 👍

[@User-nc2lf]

@@247printing Thanks 😄

[@SeanTaffert]

Great vid. Very insightful. I thought I was crazy or being too nit-picky about print quality. I am vindicated. However, I would assume that LDO won't just replace the A/B motors on my kit I purchased last December.... I guess I will have to contact Moon Servo Motors (or anyone else) for better hardware. Shame, I really liked the LDO build experience.

[@247printing]

Those “VFA motors” are great concerning performance at high acc/speed, though a stock V0.1 won’t profit :/

[@247printing]

And THANK YOU very much!

[@Marorrai]

Awesome video! You particularly caught my interest at 6:41 where you say That printing the Hull and the Chimney of the 3D Benchy can help you determine the correct Speed Override settings. Where can i find more about it? Do you make estimates relaying on experience or follow a given procedure? Sorry if it is a newbie question (it's 'cause i am, eheh)

[@247printing]

That's not a general and commonly known procedure. I thought I mentioned the procedure this in the video: You can iterate the layer time setting by printing the hull of the boat - repeat/iterate until it prints well. You can iterate the min. speed setting with the smoke stack - repeat/iterate until it prints well. For latter you can use something more pointy to have a general setting for more pointy stuff.

[@Marorrai]

@@247printing Awesome, thank you 🖤

[@ivanluhi]

Excelent conversation. In 2024 would you say then that for miniature and detail focused mini prints, a small coreXY will provide better parts than a small Delta?

[@jmirodg7094]

As You mentioned volume flow and acceleration are the only two parameters limiting fast printing. Transforming volume flow into printing speed is sub optimal as modern slicers can varies the width of the print line and you need to do pointless calculations depending of your height & width. it is better to have a setting of volume flow in the slicer and no speed limit. To my knowledge as of today only Prusa slicer is able to do that. I had hopes that Cura V5 would implement it but apparently it is not there. in fact if we go in the details of the physics there would be two values of max flow a max continuous which the one that everybody is testing, and a max burst, when you have been in low flow for a while due to cornering or travel, there for a maximum volume of the melt chamber you can deliver higher volume flow. I have not seen anyone mention that up to now even though this is for me the way forward.

[@247printing]

Absolutely, Prusa Slicer can set flow limits and you are fine here. Simplify3D was a bad decision to use as I actually HAD a lot to calculate 👍 But: I did not use/need any variable layer lines here in order to “simplify” the point of all this: It’s very helpful (even mandatory?) to know your extrusion rates by material. on capable DIY printers you can translate them into printing speed. In the future I’ll not use Simplify3D (V4) for these kinds of tests anymore, but it was valid and viable here. I thought about mentioning my calculation efforts also concerning part cooling related settings and others (like first layer speeds), which are to set proportionally to speeds, but I did not want to go over 20min in this video in order to do slicer finger pointing. But you are right in every respect 👍

[@nubletten]

Did you pay attention to the filament spools? it looks kind of jerky when you print.

[@247printing]

Some days ago I told a friend how simple and effective those V0 spool holders are. Where did you see jerky?

[@nubletten]

It is 15:45 with cardboard. They do look waaay better then most I see.

[@NilsBuwen-m3j]

Hi, can i buy the Files of your Voron 0 costum Side cooling?

[@SantaDragon]

11:23 Was sind denn "Soliuschens"?

[@jaroslawzmuda8963]

One thing what's missing here is comparison of voron 0 Vs voron 0.1 ;) wait for it... Waiiit fooooor it... Waaaaiiiiitt....

[@247printing]

You mean... V0.0 vs. V0.1. That's mainly bowden (which also exists on V0.1) vs. Mini Afterburner. For the rest: There is no sense in it, as no one would build a V0.0 (weak motors) anymore. The bowden vs. DD comparison is on my (looooooong) list though, as I am convinced that the Voron0 IS A BOWDEN PRINTER!

[@jaroslawzmuda8963]

@@247printing thx for sharing difference between them. So to upgrade voron 0.0 to 0.1 I need to change motors and afterburner only? There is another thing. 0 has z Axis driven with belt and 0.1 is bolt driven and this is question in I can upgrade this?!?

[@overcaffeinatedengineering]

Ha ha ha. I love the ending. Stefan enjoying Leberkäse (which is made with neither Leber nor Käse 😂)

[@MrButuz]

Man I am gutted that I paid 50% more for the LDO kit than the Formbot and I've been wondering why my surface quality has so many weird lines and shapes in it - now I know. LDO use inferior motors to Formbot! I've just put stealthchop to all the999999s. Last LDO Kit I'll be buying that's for sure!

[@247printing]

The actual Kits come with the improved motors and the Kits are still very good. If you activate Stealth Chop the problem should be solved without additional downsides.

[@leorocket]

Super Video!! Vielen Dank! Das letzte Teil auf deutsch war gut

[@247printing]

Vielen Dank!

[@MrEvanmartinez]

What motors do you suggest now that more info has come out?

[@Budschidau]

Dank schee für das tolle Video. Bin grad am überlegen, was der nächste Drucker werden soll. Der Bambu X1 ist schon geil, aber closed source und Kontozwang ist so ziemlich das Gegenteil von dem, was der Josef Prusa macht - deswegen ein no go. Der FLSun V400 ist schnell, aber keine Ahnung ob das ein set and forget Dauerläufer wird. Anfangs gehen ja die meisten CN-Drucker gscheit, bis die Einzelkomponenten dann doch den Geist aufgeben. MK3S ist gut aber langsam, der XL dauert noch. Snapmaker ist auch nicht wirklich als superzuverlässig bekannt. Muss ich doch einen Trident bauen😄

[@247printing]

Merci dir! Schön zusammengefasst - hätte jetzt auch gemeint, dass ggf. der XL was für dich ist, aber ja - den gibt es nur auf dem Papier und wird schweineteuer sein. Meinen MK3S+ nutze ich aktuell überhaupt nicht mehr - der wurde tatsächlich sinnfrei seitdem ich die X1Cs inkl. Bambu Slicer nutze - auf den Speed will man nicht mehr zurück. Falls du die Zeit hast, dann wäre tatsächlich ein RatRig oder Voron aktuell das richtige für dich. Am meisten Spaß (egal ob 2.4 oder Trident) hast du mit nem LDO Kit. Formbot kann man aber auch machen. Rat Rig Kits sind ein bisschen eigen/aufwändig mMn. Am Ende kriegst mit dem V-Core-3 jedoch schon ein Stück mehr performance (speed bei quality) als mit einem Voron. Zu Voron vs. RatRig kann ich das Vergleichsvideo von Vector3D empfehlen. Kann ich 100% unterstreichen bis auf eins: Die Anleitungen bei Voron wurden mittlerweile deutlich besser.

[@wanglydiaplt]

Where did you find the LDO for that price? Cheapest I've found was twice that!

[@gummispecht]

Servus Could you please be so kind and provide your printer.cfg and slicing profiles for reference? Thanks

[@xpim3d]

Nice!! Tks for sharing!

[@hobbyistnotes]

Have exactly the same issue with my LDO motors, very sad that such expensive kit comes with such cheap motors...

[@247printing]

I did some more tests which were not suitable for this video: The torque and power of the "VFA-motors" is incredible... Stealth chop fixes that VFA issue and printing speeds up to 175mm/s are a lot for a stock V0.1, but yeah - you'd have to live with whining...

[@hobbyistnotes]

@@247printing I agree, word "cheep" wasn't used correctly in this instance but VFA's are known for years and if I am not mistaking LDO produced motors for Pruca's printers for a while. As Pruca's users firstly spotted and came up with the name for this issue, I can't believe LDO underlooked it. In my case I had to spend extra 50$ to get motors that will solve this issue and considering price of the kit it's not acceptable. QC is the reason why we buy more expensive kits over cheap.

[@user-yk1cw8im4h]

@@hobbyistnotes yeah LDO sucks for not offering replacements to their customers. They lost my respect.

[@radmin2]

My ldo has the vertical banding like you describe. I guess its the motors.

[@247printing]

Try stealthchop - it limits your torque, but if you don’t go for extreme acceleration it should be enough for casually fast V0.1 printing

[@nubletten]

I just want to print fast benchys all day :D

[@247printing]

It's really addictive :)

[@oburi85]

Darf man sich als NRWler in das Endgespräch einhängen? Wenn ja: "Danke für die Reviews. Ich will nen 2.4 bauen und hatte erst mit dem LDO Kit geliebäugelt, gehe aber nun auf das Formbot Kit weil es einfach viel günstiger ist im Vergleich zu LDO." :D

[@educationalpurposesmostly]

HOW DID YOU GET THE QUALITY SO GOOD ON THE FOAMBOT

[@powersv2]

“Just watch part1.” This guy. I said outloud “you jerk!” 😂😂😂

[@247printing]

Yes, I really felt like a Jerk, when making this. Thanks for watching to the end 🤩

[@kolorartists]

8.5k acceleration - no wonder you don't max out the speed / flowrate? Is that all the 0.1 can do mechanically in stock for quality prints? Have you tried overvolting 12V Gdstime fans on 24V? Their 5015 can take it, not sure about their 3010/4010

[@247printing]

Hallo Bernhard, 8.5k acceleration is quite plenty for being calibrated to low or no ringing (I was surprised concerning the heavy Mini Afterburner). I did a lot of testing on overvolting part cooling fans, last year (also GDStime) and it is promising, but this wouldn't have been suitable (as well as too much) for this video. I want to come back to this though - cool you mentioned it! An accelerated life-time test should be done though, before recommending/showing overvolting of part cooling fans.

[@kolorartists]

@@247printing thanks for replying! Aside from recommending/not recommending/lifetime concerns: can the 3010s/4010s from gdstime take the overvolting or do they burn out immediately?

[@247printing]

@@kolorartists I tested 12V GDStime double ball 4010 on around 27V while searching for better cooling solutions for my tuned V0.0 (on some early videos you can see them). They become warmer and a bit smelly, but I was not able to kill them. The longest run was around 10h steadily at 100%. That's not long enough unfortunately in order to predict failure. In the end the performance was not enough unfortunately, so I made the 247ESPC :) I have 12V 3010s here, but I didn't find the time yet to check them out on 24+V :)

[@kolorartists]

@@247printing that's good enough for me to order some and start experimenting. My 5015s held up pretty nicely so far and at least the ones I got run better than the Sunon B1 and Delta BFB I had before (at least in terms of vibrations and noise, the Sunon BX (dual ball bearing instead of vapor) would be a viable alternative as the VX puts out some serious CFM, but they don't make them anymore - only B1 and VX and the Vapor (VX/1/2/..) series are magnetic levitation bearings which bang around and aren't suited for being mounted on moving parts). I don't expect wonders from it but every bit helps, especially for the occasional PLA print that I might want to run on the V0. And if they fail, they fail.

[@v1Broadcaster]

why did he type in klipper tutorial like that 😂

[@showmytime9177]

"community and customer support offered by LDO" is NONEXISTING for regular John Doe !!! I've had a taste of this support a year ago, got a big "fuck you" from that "exceptional" support of theirs. When you are a youtuber or influencer... things change.

[@paranoidpanzerpenguin5262]

Wow, I guess LDO motors are just repackaged generic chinese motors.

[@user-yk1cw8im4h]

I mean LDO is just a Chinese company after all. Shadiness is guaranteed for Chinese businesses.

[@nonchalanto]

How is this your conclusion from this video? They sent out new motors that fixed the VFA… but at the end of the day, stepper motors are stepper motors, and they will be very similar no matter who makes them

[@alexanderscholz8855]

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ‼️ Oise des gleich Glump! That's make it easier to choose!

[@247printing]

Performance wise that's kind of correct (Oise des gleiche Glump!) - in the end it's the result of part one that counts :) Schön, dass so viele Bayern zu schauen

[@kilianlindlbauer8277]

Ois is gleiche glump😂 Schöne Grüße von der anderen Seite des Inns

[@247printing]

Freut mich so sehr dass die easter eggs gefunden und verstanden werden 🤩🤩🤩 Grüße an die andere Seite!

[@Mobo-nz3bm]

Ende hat mich tatsächlich sehr erwischt xD das gelobte Land

[@zubkomi]

money matter...

[@rust_game_shop]

For 2.4 Formbot bs Bullrose better Formbot

[@cobeer1768]

Ill watch a review not influenced by free machines. All youtubers claim free stuff doesnt impact the review, but such BS. KZbinrs have be in the good graces of the sellers to get free stuff, and how do you get that? You help them make sales with a thinly veiled commercial you call a "review". So tired of bought and sold reviews from corrupt youtubers and retailers If you werent bought by a free machine and it doesn't matter to you, send me the free machines. But you wont because its your payment for your sales pitch.

[@247printing]

That’s a comparison of two different kits for a Voron 0. have you even watched this video? On which weird campaign are you?

[@cobeer1768]

@247printing Just tired of youtubers putting out commercials in exchange for free machines and pretending to be impartial. How many thousands of euros worth of free product have you taken to promote for companies?

[@247printing]

I keep it very short: BS. Over and OUT.

[@cobeer1768]

@247printing Cant answer the uncomfortable questions because Im right? Yeah, youre another bought and sold shill. The only people who can trust your "reviews" are tge companies that buy them

[@riba2233]

Wow buddy, you are so smart! /s You have no idea how this process works, KZbinrs that accept free samples don't benefit from them, it is just extra work and commitment for them.