#10MinuteTalk

Mark and Ryan Muckenhirn zero in on zero distances, the why behind them, and what’s best. You might be surprised how much space you need to get the best zero possible. A precisely zeroed rifle that shoots well is a must for down-range performance. Tune in and make sure you are set up for success.
As always, we want to hear your feedback! Let us know if there are any topics you'd like covered on the Vortex Nation™ podcast by asking us on any one of our social media platforms and using #VortexNationPodcast.
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[@Bowhunter66]

So back before range finders like mid 80's I was subscribed to Petersen's Hunting magazine. While onboard ship ( I'm retired Navy) I would read the section "Cartridge of the Month" it would list the near zero, far zero with the bullet rising no more than 4in above line of sight (straight line from the barrel) and 4in below the line of sight which they called Maximum Point Blank Range. For most calibers like 308, 30-06, 270, 7mm it was very similar with most rising above the line of sight at like 25 to 30yds then back to the line of sight never rising above 4in usually around 275 to 300yds then falling to below 4in below the line of sight somewhere in there 300 to 340yd range. This worked great for many many years maximizing your rifles effective range. So think about this, the size of a deer heart say 4in and the size of a elk heart say 8in. Why there are so many hunters that can't wrap there heads around this concept is mind blowing. It's literally point and shoot out to distances of 300yds and a high shoulder shot at 400 yds while staying in the area of the heart. Was a pretty good concept back then. Of course the game has changed with technology but still a very acceptable way to go for those that can grasp this concept.

[@outdoorswithroostercurrie6984]

I used to LOVE that article and kept those magazines for YEARS. I still use a 35 yard ZERO on MOST of my Weapons now and test my ZERO at 200YD - 250YD just to ensure my ZERO.

[@davemo04]

MPBR zero for main cartridge on every caliber I have except rifles dedicated to distance. 22lr gets 50 and center fire gets 100.

[@tp-mh2ji]

50yd Zero... When I was 16yrs old! 50yd Zero... I'm 76yrs old now! Good Hunting! 🦌

[@dpwhitaker7088]

I really enjoy your talks. I am 68 years old and enjoy learning from you young men. An old dog can learn new tricks!

[@VortexNation]

Thanks so much for listening in! If you have anything you want us to dive into let us know!

[@paulsimmons5726]

A very good discussion about the 50/100 zeros. Living in Alabama, I’ve taken only a few shots past 200yds but those were on clear cuts when I didn’t recon the area for deer trails. My 7x57 is zeroed at 50yds but it’ll hit an 8” circle at well over 200yds. I guess it’s just pride but I always feel like if I’m hunting, I should be able to get within 100yds on foot, hopefully much closer. Sometimes, it’s just not in the cards and you’ve got to take the 200yd shots… Great video, thanks for posting!

[@billbauer2239]

Start the zeroing process at 50 get right where you want it and move out to 100 and fine tune if needed. The turrets take care of the rest, but I want the closest possible group at 100 before moving out to distance. 9 rounds 6ix at 50 and 3 to fine tune, I have been doing that since before my back hurt and my beard went gray it hasn't done me wrong yet. I enjoy these videos, keep em comin.

[@GoodGuysCarry]

This is what I prefer too… bore sight… get it right a 50… fine tune at 100… check to see where you are at some longer distance if you have space available.

[@sakostwwy1903]

Got to kick it old school. 2” high at 100 is the secret sauce for every rifle LOL. I personally prefer a 200 yard zero. For a long time I went with a 300 yard zero. The mistake I was making was I would shoot 100 and 300 and not 200. The problem was, my gun was still rising at 200 by a lot. I didn’t realize I was shooting 5-6” high at 200. I shot over the backs of several deer till I figured out what was going on. Now I sight at 200 and good to go. Now I am curious and will try shooting my 200 yard zeroed rifle at 50 just to see where it hits. Good episode.

[@200130769]

2" high at 100 yards is sighted in at 50 and 200 yards in my 308. Shoots great that way. My 270 is the only one sighted in at 100 yards.

[@shawnbryant466]

I've zeroed my rifles at 35yrds since 1996. I've never had an issue shooting whitetails. I'm going on my first Elk hunt this year. From now on I will be zeroing at 50yrds. Thanks!

[@scotteger6271]

I appreciate Jimmy mentioning his concern over things being exponential at distance, but like anything else you have to try those distances and not just assume. You can zero at 50 and then shoot at 100, 150 and/or 200 and see how things look, unless you don’t have access to a range with those distances.

[@mtcoiner7994]

Great timing. I was just contemplating this very subject yesterday. I was always raised on basically a 300 yard Zero. Montana commonly presents 300+ yd shots and being able to hold center chest at 300 is advantages to making consistent kills at long range. It's also rather windy here more often then not. A flat shooting round and packs a punch goes along ways. I still love my .270 as an all around deer/antelope/elk/black bear cartridge.

[@dangerouseducation40]

You sold me on .270 over .243. I'm thinking a Winchester X-Bolt. Any better suggestions especially for the money?

[@portersorensen8814]

@@dangerouseducation40 The Tikka is a good one for the money. Same with Christensens on the other side of the $800-$1500+ range

[@scottd280]

I’ve been using a 50 yard zero exclusively on my .223/556 guns for predator hunting. It works perfect for me because of MY geographic region and hunting terrain. I’m in wooded Pennsylvania and my average shots in my area are about at the 90 yard range. With a 50 yard zero I am confident when shooting critters that pop up 40 yards or ones that hang out to 200-250 yards. Huge fan of the 50 yard zero. If I hunted coyotes in Wyoming I’d probably want a 100 yard or higher zero.

[@juhanivalimaki5418]

Would be interesting to know also your sight height (sight centerline to bore centerline). As 50 yard zero for .223 is also some other zero longer in the distance. Like 200 yards possibly. crosses line-of-sight at 50, then drops under line-of-sight again at certain second zero distance. Well that provided that the sight height is not extremely small.

[@PBRstreetgang88]

You got it backwards I think.? 50 yard zero gives you a bigger arc.

[@j-davis7290]

Height over bore definitely plays a factor here.

[@troythalheimer160]

I was one of those old 100 yard zero guys. I had been considering what you guys were talking about for the last couple months. This was extremely helpful.

[@VortexNation]

Glad you found it helpful! Definitely let us know if you have questions about the process!

[@lenzadlberger]

On many Medium Rifle Calibers Zero on 50 is something like 1.5" inches high which is the usual i dial my Rifles 1.5inch high at 100 is for most distances i hunt the most versatile for me most time in the Woods sometimes in the Fields or the Alps In my 308 1.5in high at 100 / Zero at 180 / 230 1.5in low these 3 inches doesnt really matter on Game Animal when you hold Center you doesnt have to think so much about distances and can react faster when you see the Target you want to shoot / in the Woods you often dont have the Time to Dial your Scope or meassure your exact Distance to the Target / you can meassure some Landmarks at the Beginning, in the Alps or Fields when you have Time it is simple to react on the additional Distances Most Hunters here in Germany go for 4cm high at 100 Meter 😉 Greetings from near Munich

[@shootingatshadow]

We zeroed our M16s in the Marine Corps at 36 yards. It would give us, irrc, a 300 yard "battle zero".

[@MostlyPeacefulCombatVet]

We zeroed our m4's the same way at the Regiment. Semper Fi from an Army guy. 🍻

[@2ndAmdDem205]

Semper Fi Devil Dog. I remember those rifle range days.

[@jwoak0913]

Same here. And I still BZO 5.56 at 36/300 yd to this day. Hold over out to 500 yd Semper Fi

[@SeanSmith-ui8tw]

Same. Good ole 36/300. Man size target chest hits to 300

[@SuperCabes]

Australian Military (in metric) zero distance is 23 metres (25 yards) crosses over at 300 (328yds). That's shooting the 5.56 from the Styer F88 Bullpup.

[@jan-dirkkosters4139]

In Germany and many parts of Europe, we zero our Rifle‘s at 100m (109yards) with a hold over of about 4cm (1.6") to have the slightest deviation from trajectory to line of Sight at a distance from 0m to about 190m (207yard). We call it GEE. Yes the hold over depends on the Caliber and yes you can’t shoot 190m with all Caliber‘s but it is really very common here and You can even find the Dropdata with GEE for your Bullet on the Packs of most German Manufacturers. Grüße an die Jungs von Vortex aus Good old Germany

[@lenzadlberger]

Jep so wirds gemacht aber man sollte nicht auf die Daten auf der Schachtel vertrauen sondern wenn möglich mal selber messen aus dem eigenen Gewehr... wennst einen Wiederlader kennst frag ihn einfach mal ob er einen Chroni hat wo du mal ein paar Schuss drüber jagen kannst

[@jan-dirkkosters4139]

@@lenzadlberger Dankeschön werde ich machen 😂 Fun Fakt ist ich bin Büchsenmacher seit fast 20 Jahren und die Überprüfung solcher Daten gehört mittlerweile zum täglichen Geschäft! Und ja Theorie muss natürlich immer überprüft werden!! Das Kommentar war nur hypothetisch gemeint als kleiner Einblick über den großen Teich für unsere Freunde aus den Staaten! Und ehrlich jetzt mal aus der Praxis heraus es kommt in der Regel recht gut hin mit der GEE aber es gibt Ausnahmen.

[@lenzadlberger]

@@jan-dirkkosters4139 ok na dann 😜 ich hab mir für meine Handladungen extra mal einen Magnetospeed gekauft sind preiswert und dann weiss man was man gebastelt hat war sehr aufschlussreich. Die 3-4cm auf 100 hoch sind für unsere Gegebenheiten in Deutschland einfach das universalste egal ob auf 30-50 Meter Kirrungsdistanz oder vielleicht mal 100 Meter im Holz 200 Meter auf dem Feld man muss nicht viel nachdenken man sollte halt einfach wissen wie die Kurve ca verläuft

[@brettheiner7125]

That’s how I always did it growing up - 2” high at 100 yards and you were pretty good out to 325-350 or so with a dead on hold, depending on cartridge/rifle.

[@JB-mo8rs]

Yep. Pretty much 2 inches high at 100 yards.

[@stienfamilyoutdoors]

One zero I’ve used quite a bit is a 2” high at 100 yard zero. Kind of a simplified MPBR zero that will keep almost any centerfire rifle at +/- 2” at 250 yards. Great video!

[@josephnoll2754]

My father taught me to zero using what you've stated with our hunting rifle.

[@strat1080]

That’s what I roll with too. About 2-2.5” high at 100 depending on the cartridge

[@josephvoytus3694]

Same here. 2high @ 100yds paying carefull attention on being very good left to right.....less worried if it's between 1& 1/2 - 2 inches high @ 100yds. Actually, with a 22-250 I've found I'm good out to 300 yds with this method.

[@johnmcchesney5155]

Spot on and didn’t take 10 minutes. Main thing is practice and know your particular load

[@billclifton8400]

Same here, that way I can pretty much hold on and be minute of deer kill zone out to around 300 yards with my 7wsm. Beyond that I hold up a bit using my reticle.

[@GB-zi6qr]

Just recently while on a range trip with friends, we were shooting on a 50yd range. We had started with pistol and this was a general purpose outdoor range. When we had finished pistol I offered everyone time behind my hunting rifle. I did take the first few shots just to make sure where it was hitting because I zeroed it @ 200yds. She was hitting about a half inch high @ 50yds. I thought to myself, that is a very nice little tidbit of info. Thanks for the video guys.

[@VortexNation]

For sure! Thanks for tuning in!

[@SusanMoore-o5p]

Very informative. I appreciate all of you sharing your knowledge based on experience. For me the precision of your discussion enabled clear vision of the subject matter.Thank you very much.

[@bryanshull372]

Maximum point blank range is that distance where the bullet never rises above 3 to 4 inches above line of sight or falls below by the same. For most of the 30-06 and 308 family of cartridges this is accomplished with a 25 yard zero. This was the standard for the M16 for many years and may still be.

[@warbuzzard7167]

The military used to refer to the redundant zero concept as "Battle Sight Zero," wherein the rise and fall of the cartridge would be encompassed entirely within stomach-to-head-to-stomach ballistic path. Most high power rifle cartridges had a far zero at around 300 yards, IIRC. So you could be assured of hitting a man-sized target directly aiming for their waist from 50 yards to at least 300.

[@mebeabmet]

Did you try it?

[@MF-Rell]

That's why they use a 36 yard zero.

[@warbuzzard7167]

To add to my reply: soldiers were taught to aim at the belt line of the opposing soldier. This now antiquated method has been supplanted by aiming "center mass" due to refusal of enemy soldiers to freely walk about without seeking cover in combat situations, lol. So at best a head-and-shoulders profile is exposed, unless soldiers are charging positions.

[@anthonykaiser974]

@@MF-Rell until recently, the US Army used a 25m zero on a scaled down 250m E silhouette target. The current system uses a bullseye at 25m "nearo" at the ascending transit of the bullet and line of sight, and a 300 m zero confirmation.

[@MF-Rell]

@Anthony Kaiser True. I didn't mean the entire military. I should've been more specific. I'd rather use a 50 meter zero.

[@barryw5911]

Generally accepted practice in Australia for big game calibres (308/270) is 2 Inches high at 100yds and for varmint cartridges (223) 1.5 inches high at 100yds.

[@brettheiner7125]

This is how most zeroed in the western US when I was growing up.

[@longguning1362]

You guys really need to number the 10 minute talks like you do the regular episodes.

[@VortexNation]

Can certainly look into doing that!

[@leepothier]

I’ve used 50 yd zeros for many years. It started because there was always way more space at the range on the 50 yard benches, but now, even if the 100 benches are open, I still gravitate to the 50. Quicker, easier way to zero.

[@4mrholsterco981]

Used to sight in at 300, because at the time that was an expected range for where I was hunting coyote. Then I got a FFP scope and went back to 100, so no matter magnification the reticle marks stay the same MOA measurement. 100 yard zero is still king for bolt actions, but for AR platforms with that high sight over bore I like a 50 yards zero because that is the normal distance for use for that rifle and gives me better advantage in my corrections

[@scottnj2503]

I love the term D.O.P.E. Data On Previous Engagements. I personally like 100yrd zero for no better reason than my range facilities convenience. I routinely shoot sub MOA at 100>300yards DOPE based on 100yard zero. Recently, I had a first of kind life experience to shoot incrementally 300y+ out to 900 yards, culminating in consistent center of mass hits. IMHO zero distance seems to matter less than how one applies the data. Point... KNOW your ammo, KNOW your firearm, KNOW the environment. No two firearms are the same and re: ammo never trust ammo box or on-line ballistics ammo specs/characteristics. I've so much yet to learn.

[@bobtosi9346]

Great perspective. Always learning. Know your weapons

[@jimdillon6479]

One thing not mentioned in the discussion: windage. If your windage is off at 50 it's likely your scope is off and needs a left/right adjustment vs the wind blowing your bullet off course. At 200, your shots could easily be moving from wind that you might not even be able to detect at the bench. So maybe, if you're hell bent on 200 yd zero, dial in your windage at 50 and your elevation at 200.

[@54upchuck]

Have used 3 inches high at 100 yards for over 50 years and has worked just fine. Also never used more than 3 or 4 power magnification for big game, have used 9 power for groundhogs at 400/500 yards.

[@mikemelina7395]

The last part of the talk, after they took off their head sets was the most gratifying part of this 10 Minute Talk.

[@xyzaero]

My AR is zeroed at 50 yards,because that is what my Vortex Strike Eagle AR-BDC2 reticle scope needs 🤩 All shots at the same center red-dot out to some 250 yards and the “drop lines” do their job for further shots.

[@bigben2469]

A cool trick i recently heard thats especially good with something like a lead-sled is to aim at the bullseye and fire then realign to the bullseye and adjust your scope turrets so the crosshairs are now over the previous impact fire again and it should impact at the first shot. Wish i would of known it previously as there had been times i shot 5 to ten rounds to just get the scope on.

[@datapro007]

You're always the last to know. 😄

[@EchosTackyTiki]

I love how the "game that gets it right" is always Ground Branch. Really makes a difference for those gun-to-the-head hostage scenarios at 15 feet when your rifle is zeroed for 25/200 meters. Remember your offset.

[@dpbierman2586]

Great point Jim... most guys don't think about errors becomes bigger as you stretch the yardage out👌🏻... so you have to confirm the zero at 200yds.(vertical AND horizontal).

[@ukwan]

I much prefer the 50 yard zero, for the exact same reasons. It's far enough to get a good trajectory but close enough to get super accurate on the zero too and it increases your confidence. As stated though at 50 yards you need to be absolutely perfect.

[@kirbysands3197]

I've kind of got out of shooting for a few years, well quite a few years, but years ago when my dad and other hunting buds would site their rifles in it was always a 25 yd. zero. Now understand we don't get to use rifles for deer in Iowa, just fox and coyote. But I understand all this information. Thanks for all the great info.

[@ronws2007]

My favorite optic is the Vortex Venom. I like dialing stuff. So, I stick with the 100 yard zero. However, I can check zero at shorter ranges by using the ballistic calculator app. For example, if I am lazy and I am only going to the indoor 20 yard range, I calculate what the elevation is for that shot (2 inches sight over bore) and the ammo and it comes out to 5.4 MOA or 21 clicks. So, once I get the rifle shooting dead center of my target, I slip the scales and set it at 5.4 MOA. Then, I can rotate back to zero and it is a good zero. I have done this at 50 yards and checked it again at 100 yards. That being said, there is an advantage to MPBR. Now worries if you dialed correctly. Again, use a calculator. The kill zone on a dear is an 8 inch pie plate. Anywhere in that zone and you will hit both heart and lungs. So, set max rise for 4 inches. Then, when you aim at a deer, center your cross hairs midway up from the bottom of the ribcage to the bend in the shoulder. Ranch Fairy calls it the Vital V, especially for archery hunters. Granted, if you are a good enough shot, you could go for the brachial axis, the "high shoulder shot." Or if not mounting a trophy, such as harvesting an old doe, you could go for a head shot. But those are so dicy. Better to aim for the boiler room. That being said, prepare for the beast to run. Someone I know took on an Aoudad Sheep with a .300 Win Mag got a shot kind of high, toward the top of the lung and heart area. It turned directly toward him and started to charge from over 200 yards, like it knew exactly where the rifle was. By the time another round was chambered, the beast fell, having run 30 yards full tilt boogie on its last heart beat. So far, the only time I have seen a use for a specific 200 yard or 300 yard zero is long range shooters. I have zero MOA rails and my Venom will let me get to 1,000 yards. With the Rev Stop in on one, I dial to 32 MOA and hold over 6 MOA. On another rifle, I can dial to 38 MOA and hold over half. But usually, people shooting that far have their optic on at least a 20 MOA canted rail. And because you could run out of elevation quickly with that slope, you need to zero at 200 yards, instead of 50 or 100. So, it depends on the application. Most of us guys hunting in woods or even on farm land, a zero MOA rail and a 50 or 100 yard zero will be fine. I still like my 100 yard zero. On the public land that I hunt, it is heavily overgrown. Sometimes, my Vortex 1300 Rangerfinder will zap off a leaf and give me 30 yards. However, I see a tree and I know the width of that species and the reticle lets me know it is about 71 yards away and that is my landmark. And the calculator shows it is not even 1 click off the zero. I could probably get away with a BDC reticle and just zero at 37 - 202 yards. Whatever suits a person, I suppose.

[@bjh05]

1.5 inches high at 100 was the rule we followed. Close to zero at 200. Gives you a great point blank range

[@milo555100]

Great topic. I have traditionally used a 100yd zero….sometimes zeroing 2” high at 100yds. I did this when using a simple duplex reticle. Now that Im using range finding binoculars and mil based scopes with turrets and reticles I zero “dead on” at 100yds. Then dial or hold to accommodate longer range. Ive had very few shots over 100yds.

[@codym2903]

Depends on the zero. If I want a 300 ish zero I figure out in the ballistic calculator, what's the optimal point at the closest range for that rifle, i.e. 27 gets me a 272 yard zero on the 6.5 PRC with a certain load, and work from there. The point is to isolate your POS-C (position constants) from your MET (meteorological data) as much as possible. Saves on time and ammo.

[@thelastcrusader8140]

Depends on rifle, sight and caliber. Chose whats best by what you are using.

[@stevenmike1878]

i use a ballistic chart calculator determined by rise and fall, i like 1.5- 1.75 inches high, -1.5 inches low to determine my point blank distance , for most rifles its around a 50 yard zero plus or minus 5yds. 308 will get a 200 yard point blank shot window, 5.56 a 250 yard point blank, but not always aks ussually get that result at 31-36 yards for 200 yards. 22-250 a 65-70 yrd zero for 300 yards. pellet air rifles i use a much tighter rise fall, so i zero at 15 yards for a 0.5 inch rise and a - 0.5 inch drop at 50 yards. but some hunter like the ron spomer 4 inch rise and 4 inch drop. but in reality a 50,100,200 zero any of those are good if you dont know anything about ballistics. there all good enough. but if you take the time to nerd out you can cut a point blank group size by half. where you know for certain at 200-250 yards anywhere in that range it will hit a 3 inch diameter hole, instead of 5-6.

[@jeffdulik8099]

Your comment is perfectly “dialed in”. Most people don’t understand the concept of point blank range.

[@BooDamnHoo]

My zero depends on measured muzzle velocity and ballistics. I go for the max point blank range for that specific cartridge/load and that means a near zero that isn't hard and fast at 50. It may be 45 yds or even 30 yds dead zero but the redundant zero will be beyond 100 and even out to 200 in some cases. I look for the trajectory that maxes at just under 4 inches above point of aim to just under 4 inches below as my best zero option. That will usually give a very good MPBR. It helps that I set up targets on my own property so I'm not stuck with the fixed ranges of a public (or private/club) shooting range.

[@roncterry]

Great episode again guys, keep it up. One comment is that it might have been good to lay some groundwork around point blank zero and the size of your target (I.e. vitals zone) and then talk about the different zero distances relative to it. It would help people visualize the proposed advantage of a 50yd zero. You talked around this concept a bit but probably with an assumption that the concept was already understood. I’d like to see this topic revisited with some visual aids demonstrating/showing this concept. Another point that would have been good to make regarding the “it depends” idea is the type of reticle you are using. Reticles with built-in BDC should be zeroed at the range specified for that reticle/cartridge combination. These reticles exist more in the tactical arena but are starting to show up in the hunting arena (I.e. some of the hunting oriented ACSS reticles from Primary Arms).

[@ericblomquist1975]

This was very helpful!! Learned a lot.

[@Onikame]

Vigilance Elite had a video on the 36yd zero that sold me pretty hard. (this is a combat zero though) The idea being that basically between 10 and 150-200 yds, if you're dot/cross is on centermass, you will hit the target. (with 556).

[@kaosactual1]

That's one of the best videos explaining this. This is the Marine Corps way.

[@seanomeirs8362]

Thanks for the video. My .300 blackout rifles have been challenging. With bullet weights, and sighting options, my DOPE card is a small book. 110g-220g, Supersonic and Subsonic, Red Dots and scopes with BDC reticle, and numerous applications, have led me to put together additional systems that are for specific tasks. But I haven't given up on a solution for "Only 1 rifle", yet.

[@gmz1997]

Depending on the caliber, the idea is to intersect the Line-of-sight (LOS) with the actual trajectory of the round twice taking into account the extreme spread (rise and drop) between the to points. Trajectory tables with give to the closest zero for your allowed spread with the end range being whatever that acceptable spread allows. This is what I do with my hunting rifles.

[@robertsebacher44]

I believe in Maximum Point Blank Range. For most standard cartridges this is usually pretty close to the old rule of thumb 3 inches high at 100 yards zero equals a 200 yard zero. Otherwise use ballistic tables.

[@bobmcmillen4502]

Most guns that’s high at 200

[@douglaskurka5874]

Zero at 25 yards is perfect for 99% of hunters! I've done this for over 50 years with various calibers, and has never let me down. MPBR is always in the 225-300 yard range.Point and shoot ...

[@echoauxgen]

Watched again! A 50 zero was the norm many years ago BECAUSE the flatness in inches from 50 to 200 and beyond to 300 and just the single crosshair on a second focal plane scope. The 100 zero makes it easy to dial up/down to a known range BUT today with FFP and many marks down there is no reason to dail, for you can print out the ranges for each hash almost to 600 with any ballistic app. What I see is not knowing where a 30 or 50 hash is when set to 100. Most are hunting in thick woods and barley get beyond a 100, due to hand holding, but that critter comes close and you miss low/high even with a flat arc. You have to know your hash marks also and not rely on the cross hairs. Exp. a 35 Whelen and 45-70 are good to use in most states during primitive hunt due to the heavy bullets fall rate. But a 225 grain will go 500 so much for that.

[@scotmars]

Very Helpful, thank you. My new zero is 50.Wish I had heard this 20 years ago.

[@8551-w5v]

Great video. Some shooters still believe that a round rises out of the muzzle. Glad you discussed the maximum ordinate. Line of sight is laser beam straight. You can't tell by looking but the barrel is angled above the line of sight and you're lobbing rounds on target from distance. Personally I use 100 yard zero on my hunting bolt guns and the 33-300 on my 16" ARs. We used 36-300 in the Suck with our A2 with 20" barrels as you know. Again thanks for a video all should see. Semper Fi.

[@matttyreeoutdoors]

I have always stuck with a 100yd zero on anything that has a scope and a 50yd zero with irons and red dots since that is what works well for my shot opportunities. The only gun that is does not follow that same thing is my 22-250 which is at a 150yd zero. The only reason is because I shoot tons of groundhogs off the same hillside on my farm every year at 150 yards, so that is exactly where I want that rifle to be hitting point of aim at

[@Nathan-zw7nq]

Yep. 16 inch barrel with milspec 55gr fmj 5.56 a zero at 50 is also zeroed at 200. With my ammo (PMC I like as a good balance between quality and affordability) it rises about 1.3 inches at 100 out of my ddm4v7

[@TeamJesusOutdoors]

I used the 100 yard zero for many years, until I began to better understand the ballistics curve of most of my hunting ammo, and I am now a fan of the 50 yard zero.

[@josephciprianojr953]

10 Minute Talk request: Now that the 7mm PRC has officially dropped, maybe do an episode covering the entire PRC family (6.5, 7, and 300) - how they evolved, how they differ from what's already out there, best uses, and if there might be any additions to the family in the future. Will probably go WAY over 10 minutes... I find the evolution fascinating. Thanks!

[@VortexNation]

Noted! We'll add that to our list and see what we can make happen!

[@cristianespinal9917]

Depends on a lot of things, but especially cartridge, optic height, reticle, and expected engagement range. Four examples: 1. I zero my .270 Winchester hunting rifle with a scope mounted about 1.5" over bore at 200 yards and expect to reasonably be able to take game out to 300 yards with minimal, if any, holdover. The scope's reticle would allow me to holdover much farther out using stadia lines, but I personally wouldn't take a longer shot than 300 yards on game. 2. My .300 Blackout AR hunting rifle is zeroed at 50 yards with supersonic ammo and a low-powered scope mounted about 2.7" over bore. I wouldn't take shots on game farther than 150 yards with that rifle, and I wouldn't need to holdover at all with that zero if I keep shots to 175 yards or under. 3. Back in the Marine Corps, we zeroed our M16s with Trijicon RCOs at 100 yards (or was it meters?) because that zero allowed the bullet trajectory to track with the stadia lines on that optic out to 500 yards (or meters, I forgot). 4. I also heard of M16 iron sights zeroed at 36 or 300 yards because zeroing at either of those two ranges maximized the point blank range. It allowed for no holdover on a human-torso-sized target from the muzzle to something like 350 yards.

[@jerrymartin5100]

Point blank zero is the best hunting zero, 308, 150gr, 25 yards, stays in a 6 inch pipe to 267 yards, many cartridges work with a 25/26 yard zero.

[@Therionx]

Great talk guys ! Thanks .

[@DaveL9170]

What is the MPBR of an” .308 using 165 grain in 18 inch AR-10 with a 50 yard zero???

[@RepulsiveBloom8]

I’ve personally always liked the 50 yard zero for mountain rifles like my 270 or muzzleloaders. My 270 is less than a 1/8 inch low at 200 so I know for any mountain whitetail hunt I’m good to go. But for any precision rifle or my long range muzzleloader I do a 100 yard zero, but like Ryan says I also have more magnification so I can see the target much better.

[@howardjohnson541]

Great topic BUT I was waiting for someone to talk about the click value difference between distances. Not many people take that into factor that closer range (25 & 50) require more clicks to get that zero. Maybe a topic to discuss would be click values at difference distances.

[@wayneok1369]

The discussion of zero at 300 yards would be very helpful. Thank you

[@918Mitchell]

I've always zeroed at 100 for hunting. I'll have to try 50 and play with it at the range. I zero my RPR 308 at 300 if I'm shooting 1,000 +

[@stayvigilant007]

A 50-200 zero with a 16” M4 is the only way to go. Every out to 200 is within a 4” circle. And if you have a BDC Reticle, just holding with the graduated segments gets you out to 400 super easy. Caveat, I use 77 grain solely.

[@D_Boone]

I am zeroed at 254 yards. this gives me the tightest constraints between 0-300 yards, with a variation of =/- 4.5". This makes learning holdovers super easy, and even if I hold dead on, less than 4.5 inches should be a dead animal every time.

[@scottstruif3939]

Depends on scope reticle resolution. A fixed 4X, SFP scope with a duplex reticle should be zeroed at 50. The reticle won’t be fine enough to bisect most preprinted target bullseyes at 100. If your reticle is fine enough to see the top & bottom of the bullseye then it will work.

[@TheBowhunterinNB]

like most of us , I was raised on 100yard zero. After all the adjustments on our scopes said 1/4 at a 100. About 5 years ago I switched to 50 yard zero . Then shoot one group at each 100 and 200 . To confirm. Make final adjustments , 99.9 % of my hunting is sub 300. Yards . We do shoot at 12” steel gongs at 300 & 400 . Hit or miss

[@DavidNewkirk-o5x]

My home range is a 50 yard max distance. Where hunt I have shot whitetail deer from 12 yards out to 250. So I like the 50 yard zero for my rifles...it hasn't failed me yet

[@UncleWayne5104]

I just did the calculations for the maximum point blank range for my rifle, given BC and muzzle velocity, and apparently it says I should zero at 25. It should give me no more than 3" variance between 25 and 217yrds. Handy, because the range I have access to is indoor and only has 35yrds to play with.

[@sasquatch6829]

No mention of the 36 yard zero?

[@brandon01776]

I'd say that is probably to the part of combat application and certain variations of cartridges

[@sasquatch6829]

@@brandon01776 I would agree I would also say that for the layman tha also has hunting applications wherein you are hunting in unfamiliar areas with a lot of unknowns

[@jaycee30865]

I zero at zero. That way I use the whole X axis. Save ammo too.

[@brandon01776]

@@sasquatch6829 right but your 36 yard zero for a 30-06 220 grain bullet is not gonna be the same as your .556 ar 36yard zero nor your 45 -70 government 700grain pill lol so in reality it doesn't do much for you

[@snunz5087]

@@jaycee30865 what does it mean to zero at zero?

[@tomingvaldsen3939]

12:00-12:07 I feel you Ryan, I feel you!😆

[@elitearchery]

I hunt southern Indiana I use a 200 yd 0.

[@georgeganjei6573]

Great video guys! What about 36 yard zero? Also, how about iron sights? At greater distances, my front sight covers my entire target! Maybe 36 yards for iron & 50+ for scope?

[@billwallenstein3387]

Unless your barrel is bent. Adjust your scope to where your bullet hits. 50 yards is a good starting point to find the paper. I’ve been setting my rifles 1” high at 100 yards because that’s what I was told to do when I was a kid. I shoot a 243, 270, 6.5 and 30/06. The theory is you should be able to hit the kill zone out to 300. Been hunting since the 70’s and it works for me.

[@jdmbraceyourself695]

I really like the idea of 50! Thanks guys

[@mattcomchoc2957]

If you're watching this video, there is a very good chance you'll love the video linked below. Fantastic visualization tool: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6LOfH2vgtmjjKs

[@davewinter2688]

I'm in central Kansas where I could have a very close shot in a creek bottom or a long shot at 400-500 yards or more across a soybean field or hills and pasture canyons in cattle country. Even when I was young and healthy I would never try a shot like that BUT I sighted for maximum effective point point blank hunting range for many years. No range finder, no fancy dial it in scope of any sort. Bore sight the rifle. Shoot one three shot group at any where from 25-50 yards to make sure you're old style optical bore bore sighter didn't lie to you and that you're on the paper. Then shoot more than one group at 100 yards trying to be at around 3-3.5 inches high so that you know that you and your rifle can be consistent. With any of the common relatively high velocity numbers (270 Winchester, 308 Winchester, 30-06 etc) generally you're going to be dead on at somewhere between 225 and 250 yards depending on your particular load etc. For me it was usually my Ruger 77 270 Winchester with a common Hornady cup and core 150 grain spitzer at around 2800 fps. Once you're confident of your groups at 100 yards then move out to target at 200, 250, 300 etc to see where you in comparison to where the ballistic calculators say you should be. The goal should not be to shoot as few shots as possible to save money. If you want to save money go to your favorite market to buy your meat. As I got older and shot less I knew I had to practice more before starting the season. If you're shooting one of the so-called woods rifle calibers (30-30, 35 Remington) at "woods" ranges you're going to have adjust accordingly. The Hornady 35 Remington LeverEvolution sighted 3 inches high at 100 yards is still going to be close to dead on at 200 yard. The old flat or round nose 170 grain 30-30 or 200 grain in the 35 won't guite do that. I put by 336 Marlin 35 Remington at 3 inches high at 100 yards then with scope set on 4 power just practiced consistently hitting a 6 inch steel gong out to 200 yards off hand. I never even got a shot at a deer with that one. In the last 45 years or so of hunting deer in this region I only shot one deer at close to 300 yards. I'm short so my long measured paces are under a yard. Most were not over 150 with a few as close as 50 yards. MPBR always worked for me. I can only remember having to use a second shot a couple of times.

[@BlueCollarRay]

Hey Fellas, we really (The Hunting/Shooting Community} appreciate you.

[@ronws2007]

Also, Jimmy brought in a great thought, you should be able to get the same hole at 50. So, let's go big. 1/4 off at 50. Then 1/2 off at 100. 1 inch off at 200. So, with an actual 50 yard zero, 200 yards is, averaging, the second zero for .308. Even if you treat it as an MPBR, it is only one inch off. If shooting past that, then 2 inch spread at 300, etcetera, etcetera, and that is assuming that each and every bullet will act the same as the one before it, which will not happen. So, it is not a sub MOA rifle regardless of what was done at 50 yards. It is still, with factory ammo, a 1 MOA rifle. Which is still accurate enough to aim for pie plate zone on a deer or antelope out to 40 or 500 yards. Ron Spomer (RSO) pointed out that it is not the transfer of energy that kills a deer but the damage down by the performance of the bullet at impact. That being said, you still need enough energy to get into the body cavity and expand. The .308 factory ammo that I use is still supersonic at 1,000 yards. According to the data on the box, it is at over 1,100 ft-pounds at 500 yards. In fact, it drops below that around 550 according to their ballistic calculator. Now, it's not as if the bullet hits the deer at 999 ft-lbs and he thumbs his nose at you and saunters off. But you draw the line some where. Spomer recounted some stories of hitting an elk in the heart and lungs and it wandered off and they thought it got away. A few hundred yards later in the morning, they found it. Lungs and heart were soup, the animal was operating on will power, evidently. Philosophy of use, a target shooter will probably go to long ranges and zero there but hunters can use what is practical. I can still zero for 100 at 50 yards and then check at 100, again.

[@kevinsauer5794]

If hunting, I zero at 100 yards. If I am doing some long range shooting, I normally zero at 300 yards. However, I always carry ballistics cards with me to make sure my doping is correct. Just use the JBM Ballistics calculator.

[@lavanice]

For hunting 0 at 25 yard always. Its within couple of inch up at 100 yard and 0 again at 210 to 230 yard depend upon caliber and approx 3-5 inch down at 300 yard depebding upon cartridge , weight, velocity. So I do not need to adjust for distance upto 300 yard. Also with 25 yard zero at indoor range , your windage error is minimum. Its work best with 6.5 cm, 270 win, 30-06, 7mm rm

[@Alan.livingston]

I was always taught 1" high at 100 for zeroing. Talk to any farmer in the area and they all say the same thing. I really should give some other distances a go.

[@Eiflerisch]

Never considert zeroing at 50 yds. (meters in my case). But you made some realy good points for that, so i will try this out! Greetings from Germany "Waidmannheil" to all the hunters out there

[@TheBigGaloot]

Good chat. I zero my 204 at about 150m. That gets me a pretty good point-blank-zero range for dogs and stuff.

[@denisleblanc4506]

I can see the advantage of sighting in at 50. One not mentioned is wind drift. If you're sighting in at 100 or 200 wind becomes much more of a factor. But your adjustments are more critical at 50. Another thing not considered is parallax. Some scopes with a higher minimum power don't focus well at 50. You might not be able to use full power on your scope. I have a fixed parallax rimfire variable on my 1022. Once I go shorter than 50 yards, I have to lower the magnification to get a sharp image and that scope has a parallax adjustment at 50 yards.

[@NismoXero]

On my .270 I use a 25-250 yard zero. Puts it +3 out to 200yd and -4 at 300yd. 7.62x39 I use a 30-200 yard zero. +3 at 100yd, -6 at 250yd.

[@troymcdonald9086]

I use a 200yrd zero on my tikka T3 7mm mag w/ Vx3 i just put the crosshair on the target out to 300 yrds hits 2" high @100 0"@ 200 2" low @ 300 & .5" Moa i Love it! its my Favorite Big Boy! Nothing Escape's! Lol! Shot place ment is Very important if tryin to put deer in the freezer! Little to much Ass for white tail! .243 ideal for White Tail!

[@vmancity9691]

50 yd zero is definitely the way to go. I feel prepared to take a quick shot if needed out to my second zero and have verified out to extended ranges when I have more time to range and dope for the shot.

[@tomcurran8470]

Yes, you don't want to have to figure elevation when that big buck jumps out at close range. I don't see where people are adjusting their scopes after sighting game. There is too much chance the game will be gone.

[@cadamsm11]

Love the 50/200 for my AR, but important to confirm your far zero. With a 20” barrel, and 55grain bullet, my far zero is closer to 220yds. But anything shot at center mass from 0-220 yards should never be off more than about 3”. Point and shoot.

[@diggernash1]

My standard hunting scopes are zeroed 2" high at 100. My precision scopes are zeroed at 100, but when I use them hunting I dial 2" high at 100. I would dial for more than 300, but I've never shot an animal at that distance; back here in the Eastern foothills.

[@tehunter6569]

I am a firm believer, and practitioner, of the maximum point blank range concept. Zero at a range that results in your round rising or dropping no more than 3” or 4” above or below line of sight depending on the game hunted. For my rifles that’s out to at least 250 yards, some out to 300. Takes guess work out of the equation. HUNT to get close enough and shoot.

[@colemiller4899]

Zero at 25 yards and be good to 250 yards in are 270 & 243 and that come from my grandpa and dad and they have killed a lot of coyotes and deer and elk with that zero and it’s been true for me too we have mixed country in Nebraska as you guys now could be deep timber and then go to rolling pastures so what’s your guys thought on the 25 yard zero

[@Joeatsaco69]

I do an initial zero at 25 to get dialed into -1.5-2” zero. Now I stop for 30 minutes and let the gun cool. I also open bolt immediately after each shot for barrel venting. Then I am very close at 100. Then fine tune at 100.

[@johnandrosemarywyatt977]

I like the "10 minute talks" much better because it is easy to stay focused on the information which is always good. I would like it if you could break down the hour long podcasts into 20 minute sections. I have to admit that when I see another great topic and then see the 1 hour +/- on the time, unless I'm driving through Nebraska, I roll my eyes and say ill get back to it during the next time I'm stuck inside. Just sayin

[@davepayne2024]

Excellent! Thanks guys.

[@frothmonster9728]

For my 300 win mag I sight in at 250. It’s a great range because the bullet stays within a 3 inch lift between my barrel and the target. With an MOA scope I’m +1 MOA high at 200yds and -1 MOA at 300yds.

[@BruceFarrell]

Great segment. Loved the 50 yard alternative. What about 25 yards? Realize would need to be a very precise group otherwise would be way off at distance. Looked ballistically for 3006 and would kinda end up a maximum point blank range situation with second zero at like 225 yds

[@dave_1958]

I’ve always used the 25 yd zero and be dead on at 200 yds with common deer rounds 30-06, 270, 308

[@14goldmedals]

For those "bread & butter" cartridges and a scope height of 1.25"-2" a zero at 25 yards zeros you right around 250 yards. Very easy to do a quick zero verification arriving at camp. Pick a tiny spot on a tree's bark 25 paces away and shoot.

[@dandexinventor]

Growing up was set by the distance between burms while rabbit hunting in N. AZ. If memory serves me right, it seemed like those burms were about 100 feet apart. I'd crawl slow and low to the crest of the burm to see feeding rabbits, shoot the first one prone before the rabbit race began, then pop up and shoot at least one more with them on the run. I didn't have a zero concept yet (at 12). I hunted to feed our dogs during the late 70's economy. The Marine Corps taught me after that, so 100 meter zero (after a 25 yard rough tune with distance between barrel and sights considered). I stuck with that 100 zero most of my life. A couple years ago, someone brought up the 36 yard zero with the AR so that out to 300 yards there would be no adjustment in elevation as it was all within 5 inches out to 300 yards. I wanted more accuracy, so I rezeroed everything I tried the 36 back to 100. I do have one I 50 zeroed at, my CX4 Storm 9mm CCR with a red dot...it just makes sense to me. Recently, I built a 6mm ARC, so I'm considering a 200 yard zero after reading Hornady's box listed zero for the ARC as 200 and seeing other ARC shooters using the 200. I have some more homework to do before I commit.

[@FVPS904]

Sales must be strong if you can afford Vortex branded coffee cups

[@jedharris478]

Currently running a 50yd zero on my FX Panthera in .25 My feelings are find a zero that falls in line with what, realistically, is the low-end of your rifle as far as ramge is concerned. Now, this is not a combat zero as some have mentioned in the other comments. I have rifles set up for that. This is for competition and hunting.