Walking Away From JavaScript

Recorded live on twitch, GET IN
Reviewed Video
• Goodbye javascript (fo...
By: / @webdevcody
My Stream
/ theprimeagen
Best Way To Support Me
Become a backend engineer. Its my favorite site
boot.dev/?prom...
This is also the best way to support me is to support yourself becoming a better backend engineer.
MY MAIN YT CHANNEL: Has well edited engineering videos
/ theprimeagen
Discord
/ discord
Have something for me to read or react to?: / theprimeagenreact
Kinesis Advantage 360: bit.ly/Prime-K...
Get production ready SQLite with Turso: turso.tech/dee...

[@WebDevCody]

I made it bois, prime reacted.

[@oliverhughes169]

Subbed! ❤

[@GrzegorzNyga]

You just need to dis JS

[@rawallon]

Bro, I've subbed like 2 years ago now, and you've been putting out banger after banger for years, I always leave your videos with an insight

[@KOBE42__]

You just need to grow a moustache now 👌

[@ashutoshpednekar9519]

Really good take… moving from python to rust here… can relate 100%

[@hamm8934]

Cody is great. Super honest and not trying to put on a facade. His videos feel like a chatting with a co-worker on a Thursday afternoon when no one wants to work on bugs anymore and just wanna chat about fun tech.

[@dandogamer]

I like cody he doesnt pretend to know more than he does and is super responsive to comments/feedback :)

[@jancartman321]

he definitely seems like a honest guy ... but running a static site on Vercel with NextJS and complaining about memory usage? Running Bun and finding memory leaks? Being impressed by Go channels but no word on web workers?

[@WebDevCody]

@@dandogamer I just ask ChatGPT questions before I make videos and edit it to sound intelligent 😎

[@zeasdz]

@@WebDevCody based

[@philipfisher8853]

​@@dandogamer like other self proclaimed gurus at 25

[@Gornius]

Over last 5 years development looked like: - There is a problem to solve, should we solve it? - No, let's spend money and time to use and learn the tool that solves our problem and 40 other problems that we don't have and also introduces 3 new problems. And everyone was like: "Sounds good to me". Like seriously, so many developers so obsessed with performance, and then their ToDo app traverses 6 different services around the world with every request. Like what?!

[@jmartinez2131]

lovely take

[@darkarie]

Sorry, but I don't understand if you are talking about the problem being people using JS frameworks or using GO for web development.

[@williamlvea]

At my work they require us to use a bunch of in-house developed dependencies. Thanks to these, some apps have post-startup pre-workload idle memory usage of >800MB..

[@ds_7]

Why even use the in-house crap if it sucks?

[@QvsTheWorld]

@@ds_7 My guess is that OP works for a company that make apps for other business and therefore prioritize having a standard architecture. This can make it easier to support multiple ongoing projects, streamline the development and switch team members around.

[@darshandev1754]

@@QvsTheWorld in-house takes cremedelacreme talent to be a success

[@tensor5113]

@@darshandev1754 It takes a developer centric culture, "normal" corporate culture cannot foster excellent in-house libraries/tools.

[@realskyquest]

​​@@tensor5113its definitely a dev company, I can guess it bcuz I have read several blogs and did research on tech where I live.

[@infastin3795]

Prime has turned the 15 minute video into an hour-long video once again. Hooray 🎉.

[@hanifa205]

he is doing everytime. our boy knows his audience well

[@Voidstroyer]

He is the asmongold of tech youtube

[@victor1882]

@@Voidstroyer you can't compare the two, prime turns a 15 minute video into an hour of good discussion points and tangents, asmon just repeats a lot of the video and says "that's crazy"

[@Voidstroyer]

@@victor1882 You are correct with those extra details. I was merely stating the comparison of turning a short video into a long one.

[@thekwoka4707]

It wouldn't be transformative...

[@pik910]

JavaScript developer shocked: learns that bloat is actually bad

[@diehenne]

😂

[@jsonkody]

bloat is not bad! You can ride on water in it!

[@HrDernacht]

*acknowledges - get's back to bloating stuff.

[@__--red--__]

@@jsonkody That's a boat, man

[@colinstu]

How are they not thinking of bloat every second? I know why but still, it's troubling how many pay it no mind.

[@Jarikraider]

Imagine the thousands and thousands of drives in a data center like Google's or Amazon's. All that heat generated and electricity being consumed to operate them. Now imagine them running in Javascript.

[@thewhitefalcon8539]

They are

[@Jarikraider]

@@thewhitefalcon8539 say sike right now

[@gglegenday]

A literal crime against humanity

[@gracjanchudziak4755]

Developers do not care about our environment. The amount of wasted energy due to lazy, mediocre developers is just terrible.

[@TreesPlease42]

@@gracjanchudziak4755 I have bad news for you: it doesn't stop there

[@NotMarkKnopfler]

As you get older and wiser you will all reach the same point and ask yourself: "Seriously, WTF is going on inside my software?". I write the simplest code possible. People don't tend to like my code because "it looks old". That's because I keep it simple and don't over abstract. I often don't abstract at all. But it's okay because I tend to be a lone coder so I can get away with being a miserable, old, stuck-in-my-ways luddite 🤣

[@privacyvalued4134]

Exactly why PHP is generally the best language to use for everything. PHP is better as a command line scripting and system language than as a web language. You get the full power of the OS in ~13MB RAM plus all of the security hardening of PHP being the primary web-facing server side language for the last 25 years constantly under attack. Go, Rust, Python, Javascript, C/C++, C#, Perl, Java, etc. don't have that combo. There are definitely serious security issues buried deep in those languages that PHP solved ages ago. Also, there's no separate compile step in PHP unlike most other languages and yet PHP can hold its own on the performance front fairly well.

[@charlesabboud1613]

@@privacyvalued4134 and PHP is a deeply intuitive way to work, I’ve heard so much really irrational bile against PHP over the years and thought, why are these people so angry?

[@DustinDustin00]

The 1990s web design was so different -- page rendering within 5 or 10 seconds over modem, maximum image sizes of 10K, making sure the page worked on IE/Netscape 2, 3, 4 and 5. Soooo much fun y'all missed out on!

[@ivrtaric]

Dude, you just triggered my PTSD...

[@HyperionStudiosDE]

Make monoliths great again.

[@manaslovesbirds]

Modular monoliths (modulith) - best of both worlds!

[@dandogamer]

The monolith tooling and hardware have both gotten a lot better. It's in a much nicer position than 5 years ago

[@basione]

Nobody needs fucking Necrons in their codebase.

[@heuristix77]

@@basione clearly we need to define and implement Imperator Titan architecture.

[@monad_tcp]

yeah, why are people scaling horizontally when you can put 256GB of RAM in a single process very easily, why are you going for $10/mo AWS bullshit microservice when you can just have a single $35K server running your entire thing for 3 years when you have less than 20,000 consumers. Heck, if you optimize for C1M, you can still have the same $35K server and literally save millions of dollars in cloud computing, just because you used monolith applications and scaled vertically. I bet people do that because they're afraid of servers. they don't bite, trust me, I'm doing my own computing with my own hardware since 2011, hardware keeps getting faster, I'm still not going to need NetFlix (TM) scale until I have a million customers, then I can afford more servers and go for microservice. Why would I rent servers from bezos if I can buy them ? I prefer to have Capex instead of Opex, specially if Capex is ten times less than Opex.

[@eddiecanvasser4530]

The Odin Project should make this video mandatory for their Full Stack JS path. Im about 90% complete with OP, and so happy I found this

[@user-hi1sk6bu6x]

He's not wrong, debounce and throttle are easy functions you can implement by yourself. Lodash just makes it quick and easy.

[@JanVerny]

But what's the point of doing something yourself if you're not actually doing a better job? Sure I roll my own debounce, but I am not gaining anything by doing that. People shit on js dependencies, but those are not what makes js perform badly. JS is just fundamentally not designed for performance.

[@benjaminblack91]

Lodash is awesome, many langauges have similar functionality in the standard library, and lodash is stable enough and good enough to provide that stdlib-like functionality easily and cheaply.

[@tukib_]

@@JanVerny liability

[@gwentarinokripperinolkjdsf683]

@@JanVerny javascript is not fundamentally designed for performance, so by including unnecessary things you are incurring a larger cost than in some sort of systems programing language. if you want the debounce function, just what you need directly into your project

[@JanVerny]

@@gwentarinokripperinolkjdsf683 But I need a debounce function anyways, it's not unnecessary. What larger cost is there?

[@orderandchaos_at_work]

Why would a static page need any memory at all?!

[@quantran4704]

Maybe because they need VDom for react.js to optimization that website? hahaha

[@baka_baca]

The server still would need some memory to be able to handle the requests themselves, like setting up the connection and processing what the request is for, stuff like that.

[@HyperionStudiosDE]

@@orderandchaos_at_work because JS Andys don't know the difference between a web framework and a web server.

[@1rez378]

The 0 RAM server challenge, let's go!

[@exactzero]

@@baka_baca Just host the static html file to a CDN

[@Mouradif]

"Why does a single static page use so much memory". Maybe don't use Next.JS for a single static page

[@funkdefied1]

That’s the whole point of the video!

[@faridguzman91]

i like cody but its just sunk cost stockholm syndromeat this point, and its just painful to see lol

[@DanWalshTV]

While I agree (there's zero reason to use Next.js for a landing page like that), he also could've simply set his 'output' value in his next.config.js file to 'export', which would give him an actual static page that could be deployed to any HTTP server/CDN lol

[@VuTuanIT]

@@DanWalshTV it is not about hosting the static content, it is about why it consumes that much memory with just a simple app. Let say your app need a simple database then you back to the main question: why just doing a simple backend task need that much memory.

[@Mouradif]

@@funkdefied1 yeah I commented while watching, then heard my comment back in the rest if the video 😅. I just had to…

[@rawallon]

Still waiting for Prime's C# arc

[@davidgrant5887]

@nickchapsas

[@TheDiggster13]

Needs to happen, wonderful ecosystem to develop in

[@myname2462]

Once the type unions (DU) are there it will start

[@Awesomo4000]

2:53 I inherited a code base once from a guy who was obsessed with Ramda. After realizing I didn't understand what was going on I started rewriting more and more of the code to actually get rid of it. In the end everyone finally understood what was actually going on and we could quickly identify the bugs that had been in the app from the start.

[@MatiasKiviniemi]

"When I was a junior dev in the 90s" (or something), we did microservices! We had dozens of .exe-binaries, most of them taking a file and spitting a file. We had "CICD" with build in scripts that build the exe and renamed the current version and copied new one in it's place. Every piece updated independently and if it broke, delete new one, rename previous version back and try again. For some reason every generation comes up with this idea that files and folders are old fashioned and need to be replaced with something new and shiny.

[@JanVerny]

Were you having a stroke when you wrote this? What you describe here, it doesn't need to be replaced, it needs to be collectively deleted from everyone's memory and you need to take off the rose tinted glasses.

[@jamesp1389]

@@JanVerny yes I am thoroughly confused

[@romankoshchei]

Btw C# is getting native compilation nowadays so it can be like Go

[@jancartman321]

With .NET Core it has already AOT compilation like Go. Plus, the C# is the much better language. Proper type system including null safety. It's just a bit harder to learn than Go, that's why Go is so popular with people watching videos rather than coding.

[@romankoshchei]

@@jancartman321 Only thing I don't like about C# is that Errors are not a part of type-system. So I rarely know whether method throws or not. I would like it to be explicit. Something like in Zig.

[@anothercolddayful]

Jvm languages got that also with native images via graalvm. Also buildpacks are a thing for highly optimized deployables.

[@joep5135]

C# and Java have had native compilation for ages

[@peace_world_priority]

but c# blazor the c# webassembly (the frontend) is still slower than javascript

[@Salantor]

It's cathartic to see people using only web technologies finally realizing the amount of waste they produce for the simplest things imaginable.

[@TradieTrev]

This is on par with best dev convos I've seen hahaha! Love your work mate!

[@korbendallasmultipass1524]

Worked 2011 for a bank. It was an internal system managing billions of revenue. Just two bare metal server instances with two 3GB JVMs. 30k daily users without issues. In the 90s I worked for an industry company which was able to provide services for a couple thousand employees with an AS400 which used an amount of memory which is comparable to a AWS Lambda :).

[@protiumx]

How people can still say "if you need to build fast use "? There are incredible web frameworks in Go, Rust and Elixir. I have to believe that the people who push for nodeJS are the ones selling hosting and prefer devs to use the least cost-efficient solutions smh

[@slipknot1943]

15 minute video into one hour and 7 minutes, what a reaction

[@AndrewTSq]

I was watching demoscene coders doing some nice graphics in 6502 asm the other day. a few lines of code to make a cool image "rotation and scaling".. on a 64kB ram computer. Then I watch a modern coding tutorial and just see bloat and bloat. Sure its not the same thing, but still. :)

[@daphenomenalz4100]

Uhh I mean it's like way easier to do that on bloat than on ASM 💀💀, that is not a good comparison Go is something that is kindof in the middle nd has both the benefits to some extent! That would be a better example. Also, asm for web 💀

[@eightsprites]

I thought the same seeing solutions people came up with. Remember someone very proud of thier 900tps, Im just standing there.. sure you ment 90000tps right?.. nopes.. was off with x100 from the target. After that I just stopped caring.. tried a few times.. but never pushed on anything. ”Sure its fine, nice 900tps you got.” We that started with ASM, are just different. Gotta accept that.

[@c128stuff]

I still write code for such hardware, in assembler mostly but not exclusively. It requires a way of thinking quite different from what most modern devs do, tho it does have obvious similarities to developing for tiny embedded systems.

[@pencilcheck]

I will continue using the right tool for the right job and scale

[@gravisan]

@13:18 there is a great video by the V8 devs that talks about this; basically the V8 optimizer can see your structure and minimize the memory usage because it knows the shape - the caveat is that if you start doing stupid stuff like appending keys into that object, it falls over and can't optimize it out.

[@everistusolumese9350]

@theprimetime Please bring back, welcome to Costco! I love you. My daughters love it and watches your channel with me just to hear it.

[@shaunpatrick8345]

It's like the Jeavons paradox. When we're given more resources we use even more of them.

[@pope1089]

Probably why i,ve always just enough.

[@pesterenan]

"... never wanted figuratively **kermit sewer slide** more ... " 48:45 My god... I burst out laughing, this is pure poetry hahahaha

[@oryankibandi3556]

Great mentality. Even when using cloud services. Most things could cost less and be effective with just a VPS.

[@MC---]

You should have Chris Ferdinandi on your stream. He advocates for a simpler web.

[@Co-Monad]

I’ve been working on cross-platform applications and using Nx for monorepos and Microfrontends has been pretty smooth. Outside of this use case I wouldn’t recommend it for most projects.

[@Callumkloos]

I mean for a one pager.. why are you deploying it to node at all? use next sure and just build statically and chuck it on S3?

[@IhsanMujdeci]

Word, compile it into static assets and put cloud front in front of it. Bam!

[@gregroyclark]

Gonna have to look into this strat.

[@guitar2935]

I recommended something similar when cody made this video. His response was that he had some forms that couldn't be rendered statically but If you want to stay in JS land you could just be using something like Astro for small for stuff like that.

[@gaetanp77]

Those metrics are crazy, 400mb for a single static web page?! I'm a PHP dev and most of our application routes takes around 8-12mb using a full framework like Symfony.

[@buildervision7082]

This is a sign for me to keep learning symfony

[@adjbutler]

walking away from javascript to LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE! amen!

[@darshandev1754]

did a year ago

[@filthyfrankblack4067]

How about we go farther and have software that works without being constantly connected to the internet like the good ol days.

[@CTimmerman]

@@darshandev1754 To what? How's it going?

[@jiraiyah8941]

I use typescript on the front and try to use either C# or Go, still learning both, on the back. For work though, I have to use SharePoint on the backend -__-.

[@jovanpetrovic5950]

​@@CTimmerman to "no-code" development, aka "do not code, let me code it for you". Still working on improving my To Do app from 2012 and applying for an entry level position.

[@pesterenan]

"People that use Ramda, are people who want to make a codebase only usable by them" 2:54 THIS IS SO TRUE! Ramda is HORRIBLE, it's like you're reading backwards, everytime you need to put the effect of some function on your 'head scope' it gets worse.

[@RandomGuy1606]

Server side rendering in JS has always been the craziest thing. Either use CSR or something other than JS if you must render HTML on the server.

[@abc123evoturbobonker]

Meanwhile that Fat Snake Python constricts the CPU and eats memory by the Gigabyte :D

[@CTimmerman]

Have you tried compiling with Cython?

[@Alex-qq1gm]

The real question is why does a suposedly SSR frontend framework need to do anything other than serve raw HTML and JS from behind a CDN?

[@spartanA01]

If it's serving raw HTML/JS from CDN then that wouldn't be SSR 🤔 Are you thinking of SSG (static site generation)?

[@Alex-qq1gm]

@@spartanA01 Sorry my question wasn't very clear. If the App is trivial, even if it is SSR why is not just cached by the CDN? Requests to the origin should be rare, and when they do happen if there is no stateful behaviour why is the response not just served from a cache in the origin?

[@spartanA01]

@@Alex-qq1gm yeah good question

[@arturampilogov9801]

@@Alex-qq1gm Modern frameworks like Angular, Next.JS, NuxtJS, generate static content (SSG) separately from dynamically rendered pages for each request (SSR). SSG content can be uploaded to CDN. For example, Next.JS hosting does it automatically. While dynamic information is served by server rendering.

[@Psy45Kai]

There is some talk (I think cpp-con) where a chrome developer shows the ASM v8 generates (without and with jit) and compared it to c++... It was like 30x for jit! He also explains how this hige dofference happens and why JS cannot get much faster

[@baka_baca]

I've had to do the extreme resource savings mentality in node apis before (I didn't get to choose the stack). It's a wild ride having to think about literally every single object/function/string being created and every single process being executed (no serialization and deserialization of json isn't negligible, it can cost a ton if you do it enough). When you need to serve millions of requests in short periods of time as fast as possible, it's amazing what you can learn.

[@jancartman321]

Hmmm, I can't disagree. You shouldn't choose Node (or Deno or Bun or even JVM) if you need efficiency. Typescript is so tempting (and actually delivers) in dev speed for full stack apps.

[@JanVerny]

Well, you didn't get to choose a stack. That's your problem. I understand completely how serving millions of requests with decent perf would be a difficult task, but JS/node/bun are not at fault here. They can do the task, but nobody claims that they are the best for the task.

[@IhsanMujdeci]

What was at the core of you learnings? I tried to optimise a http server using uwebsockets and a binary protocol like protobuf.

[@gonzalomunoz2767]

I am an efficiency-oriented programmer but have never needed to go that deep. Any chance you documented what you learned somewhere? I'm genuinely curious about what happens at the extreme end of optimizations in JS...

[@FlanPoirot]

I'm of the opinion that the only reason to use node/deno/bun is to run javascript tooling so u can deploy javascript frontends we should've made all the javascript tooling in a compiled language from the start and let the language stay in the browser. super high level languages are fine for a web page ig or for some automation or quick iteration thingy but for long running programs, for programs that actually have to be doing heavy work, they should be done on a compiled language (GCed or not depending on requirements)

[@flemminghansen7748]

That comment on Monorepos made me laugh my ass off. I feel it, I feel it!

[@nchomey]

Can someone explain monorepo vs single repo? He was railing against the former in favour of the latter, but they sound like the same thing

[@josevargas686]

yeah I have no fukin idea what he is talking about, it's like hearing a crazy person argue against themselves

[@anothercolddayful]

Huge difference, when it comes to tooling and Organisation. Google has all of its code in a monorepo. The biggest in the World.

[@DWebOscar]

Package Bloat is real in every ecosystem. I almost always cite this as a reason packages fail. Edit: spelling

[@AdamLeis]

Yup. The Church of Simplicity. I think many devs are seeing the light. Shoot, if *Einstein* glorified simplicity in his craft, certainly we lowly web devs/engs can strive for the same ethos.

[@jakehadley4044]

I love watching videos from these creators and knowing that prime is gonna make a reaction to it.

[@Astinsan]

4:21 slow clap -- the why? this is what starts the rabbit hole to the matrix

[@over9000andback]

Why would you not just build your static page files and move them behind Nginx or a CDN? My static Next.js page uses 12MB of RAM on Railway.

[@jancartman321]

While not a fan of Next, this is the correct answer. But he wants views, so that would be to boring.

[@peace_world_priority]

my portfolio fullstack gofiber + sveltekit static just used 2 mb ram on debian 11 linux 🤣🤣

[@warrenarnoldmusic]

Yea this is th shi i hate with the tech bloggers/KZbinrs always dramatic always overreacting

[@elvor8512]

3:10 I haven't seen one of these cuts in prime's videos in a long time, this made me so happy

[@NateSheltry-Music]

I haven't touched GO in a bit but I tried it out making a RESTful api. It felt like I had to switch mental gears despite syntax being much simpler than Java and co.

[@darshandev1754]

yeah it feels a little diffrerent, especially the error handling

[@GerinoMorn]

I might have flunked out of uni, but the time I spent there (CS) was very, very educational. We were taught stuff like you know, operating with given amount of bytes of memory. Nowadays the famous "2 variable value flip" is a curio, but when you have only like I dunno, 6 registers to put values in.... :D Sure I code dumb cruds most of the time, but I promise you that all those fundamentals aren't wasted...

[@RA-xx4mz]

We use loadash at work to map, filter, and iterate through arrays! it's wonderful!

[@juniper.318]

javascript has those features in the spec now, though i think they're Array.prototype.map(), Array.prototype.filter(), and Array.prototype.forEach() for that last one you don't even need that method, you can use a for...in loop afaik they're not even that new, maybe for...in is but the array methods have been a thing for years now

[@AdamLeis]

XY Problem sounds like a great quote a former manager told me about how Ford said his customers kept asking for faster horses…

[@seanknowles9985]

Deno has a wicked standard library based on Golang.

[@jancartman321]

Exactly. Deno has all you need to build web services and CLIs in its core APIs and std lib. Memory usage is also *much* lower than Hono with Bun. And Deno is more stable and probably not memory leaking like Bun as seen in his graphs. Lastly, we don't know how he deployed. Did he use docker on the same VPC in all cases?

[@tspander]

What's the point in reducing your own bundle size/memory footprint/whatever if you are then made to include a dozen third party tracker scripts that each load a megabyte of JavaScript from dubious URLs before first paint?

[@thewhitefalcon8539]

That prove-ably don't even do anything and the ad industry knows it

[@noeldacosta7621]

As someone who started on PHP v3, it's hilarious to watch declarative JS morphing into basically PHP.

[@dronicx7974]

In Rust, Cargo workspaces are a godsend. Not only can you start a project as a monorepo, but you can eventually just take a part of it out into its own repo when you think it should and the process is simple. You can do monorepos the same in JS, but it requires soooooooo much extra stuff to get it working correctly that it defeats the purpose. That's why monorepos in JS are usually seen as awful ideas. It's simply that the JS ecosystem has no easy way of doing monorepos so things get weird when you try to separate a dependency into its own repo later on. Cargo by default just makes it trivial enough that you can actually feel confident in attempting monorepos. By default, I even start single Rust projects as workspaces since it shouldn't affect much of how the project works and is developed

[@marcsfeh]

Rust is the JS of systems programming. No one should pick inspiration from its ecosystem

[@ayesaac]

The C++ 'few extra bytes' thing is often less about memory usage in and of itself, and more about cache optimization. My Rust os project's text renderer, for example, can degrade to >50% just pushing a couple extra bytes to the stack in the wrong place.

[@thejjjwils]

Im a platform engineer and everywhere still using fat snake Python, no incentive to move but wherever possible Im using Go as my goto, its better, due to its default static typing, it prompts engineers to explicitly write the inputs and outputs and thats gold when the code is the documentation in a large number of cases. When everything is staticly typed, its easier to make changes than something like Python where engineers take the easiest route which ends up in: def func(input): ... No idea of its output or what it returns and what makes uo those objects. Its uptake is so slow as people who make these decisions dont see the business benefit and yet its actually more important than what they think.

[@jancartman321]

Good point. But Typescript has an even better type system than Go, e.g. unions (including discriminated unions and exhaustive checks) or null safety. Javascript shouldn't be used at all any more.

[@ccccjjjjeeee]

its true that go and js have different mx+b, but everyone knows that you remove the constants

[@paca3107]

1 min of video = 4 minutes when prime reacting

[@EvanBoldt]

50:59 the HTMX + Go + Templ pipeline could really use a quick start kind of guide. Especially adding in Websockets to the mix was actually a pretty steep learning curve.

[@masterkutai]

But sharp is just a javascript native binding. The real code at the backend is compiled C++ codes anyway?

[@luciusrex]

C# here go!!

[@v0id_d3m0n]

3:25 i love these little intermissions

[@MarkMark]

Man, I am just so happy to get to write in Elixir. ;)

[@dennisalbert6115]

Use the libraries, have a working product then skim it until you are left with the cheese or the skeleton of a fully functioning site with only functions used and no dependancies that aren't used

[@stevelandsaw3132]

I’m a complete coding noob. I’m also a DevOps guy at a 100% Microsoft shop. Right off the bat, I’ve got a lot going against me. lol I have what I think is a useful app idea and I’ve been wondering what I should use to build it. Even though I have had a lot of exposure to C# and Angular, I could have tried to start with that since it’s somewhat familiar. After watching this, I am convinced now more than ever to try something new… like maybe Go.

[@winens1730]

Im a go(backend) developer. I use nextjs for my frontend becouse it gives me so much tools to make accessable components. If i could do thoose in go, i proly would go to golang.

[@rasmusk537]

My usecase for a Monorepo is that we have individual microservices in it, and a shared library which they are all using (for metrics, connecting to an external platform they are all doing, and other common things). Without a monorepo we would have to code in this library in a separate repo and just hope that it's compatible with all our services. With a monorepo, we are triggering actions to validate that the change in the library is compatible will all services that uses it - which we can validate before merging and letting that code into main. Also we don't even have to push this library to an artifactory, we just build it along with the services that's affected by a PR, simplifies things. There's probably other ways to handle this case, but it works well for us.

[@scottiewilkins4797]

Only Prime would be able to turn a 15 minutes youtube video into a full 1hr length reaction. OMEGALUL

[@roque-au-parcus]

Frontend engineers rediscovering backend languages is wild to watch.

[@samius1149]

21:45 - I don't fully understand the point/sarcasm in this part. Why is having to have a package.json with exports listed bad?

[@ZeroUm_]

Working in games and also stock exchange services, make you really chase the waste. It's amazing the amount of work you can do in one millisecond.

[@cristian91re]

Wow we went from php, to "static" js react to the new "php" (nextjs). CDN what is that? 😂😂😂

[@warrenarnoldmusic]

Because they want to use vercel and serverless😅😂😂 Coz cummon it is as simple as moving builds behind a reverse prosy

[@lordmushroom723]

JVM begs to differ that 380MB is a lot of memory.

[@juandig]

NextJS SPAs can just be exported into static HTML and hosted with Caddy/NGINX/Apache or on a static site hoster like Netlify, GitHub Pages, Cloudflare Pages etc

[@CosteaMelniciuc]

Back when I was shifting from jquery to react early. I was astonished by the amount of complexity we have to introduce to achieve a $el.remove, $el.append. When SSR components came up, my brain was broken, holy shit we went back to server side rendered html, but just move that shit to js. Plus an incredible amount of complexity…

[@coder4liberty]

I don't have a problem with these discussions to improve standard practices and tools we use. What I don't like is people whining "Javascript sucks" constantly which I can only hear so many times before I want to use an ice pic on my ears. I've got a job to do. That job requires browsers. I personally don't get to decide what I use. If you want to improve things great. Do it. I'm tired of hearing people cry about it as if it's possible to complain enough and get browsers that use another language. Server side of course is another matter I get that. The title of this video made me think that's all this was so good job roping me in.

[@c128stuff]

Do what you need for your core business functions yourself? yes, absolutely. 25 years ago now I started with web development, but 40 years ago I started learning to code, on systems with 64k ram. It took me a few years to get there, but by 2004 I was creating things, including ones which use JS, which still work perfectly fine today, because they do not depend on any external code or libraries or such. It does a bit of 'probing' to figure out what the DOM looks like, which makes it work with pretty much every browser which supports JS and was released in the last 20+ years. I 'modernized' the site a couple years ago by replacing the css, but beyond that, it hasn't needed any changes just to keep it working, only to expand the functionality. It uses a 'framework' I created myself, limited to the things I need, and completely self contained and hosted by my own servers. This is more work initially, but, not having to touch things unless I wanted to functionally change them, never running into libraries breaking my code, not running into a framework no longer being maintained, etc, has saved so much more time over the last 2 decades, that initial investment was totally worth it.

[@DrNefariousX]

Go Modules works great. You just have to set your GOPRIVATE environment variable to exclude the public server checksum verification for your internal Git hosts. That's it.

[@xyola]

14min --> 1hr (very decoded) -- Prime How do you make these things feel like a movie y'all

[@szirsp]

Prime: Static linking = Yes, monolithic app = Yes, mono repo = No ?

[@theodorealenas3171]

What does he even mean with "just use a repo, not a mono repo?" I thought mono repo means someone isn't using multiple repos

[@pixel7038]

I want to see the numbers with other JavaScript frameworks. Reacts has a tendency to be a bloated bundle with the virtual dom. Svelte is a compiler so I want to see its numbers in the same situation.

[@7heMech]

Yeah, hono is 14kb no deps and works in any JS env.

[@shubhsharma19]

Turning 14 mins video into 1 hour, He is really good at it.

[@sub-harmonik]

maybe I'm not one to talk bc I use spring boot for work, but it still confuses me why people use javascript or even typescript for backend. Just so much bloat for so much trouble, maybe because it's familiar? ruby & python too

[@cabanford]

"Wild!?! I was absolutely Livid!"

[@FoxiqueGC]

Luau's parrallelism is the simplest thing ever, it just works automagically!

[@ryoh8677]

I learned web components before dabbling in these front-end frameworks and I find web components to be easier. With the frameworks, you have to learn a whole ecosystem and keep up with the changes, whereas with web components you need to know vanilla es6 js and learn how components work.

[@Nellak2011]

When Primeagen talked about incidental complexity, my mind went directly to testing the UI in React Testing Library. It is nearly impossible to write even the most basic UI tests without having to do a series of hacks. Then when you finally get the UI test, one test for clicking a damn button takes half a second to do. It really is brain dead and untenable. I spent more time wrestling with the broken RTL library than with any other function I made myself. It is just ridiculous!

[@lleytonmorris6305]

Chronic self hosted here, your puny memory numbers mean nothing to me. The extra cost of using another 60GB of memory on top of my 100 watt server (mostly from hard drives) is nothing. This is a joke, obviously it can matter, I just don’t mind my 10 websites doing nothing on my server. Thankyou internet

[@Lorofol]

If you want to re-invent the wheel, either work for yourself or work somewhere (like F1) where the business values inventing it's own wheels

[@asagiai4965]

Do you know why some people use lodash even if they don't really need it? From my bootcamp experience (yeah I have different experiences) they usually do this. They want you to use libraries without much explanation. (Idk why they are doing that) The problem here is people who got accustomed to that practice. Will just use it for everything. And they want their coworkers to do the same. Just my 2 cents

[@flemminghansen7748]

As an added note. I don't believe I've ever watched a video where I agree on so much.

[@MightyMoud]

Man comon.... this gentleman insists on deploying servers for static sites. JS sucks! But at least use it the right way then judge it!

[@HyperionStudiosDE]

@@MightyMoud true. I like to dunk on JS as much as the next guy but this is a case of a JS Andy having skill issues.

[@perc-ai]

@@HyperionStudiosDEhe is senior software engineer

[@CZiNTrPT]

​@@perc-aistill skill issue

[@Astinsan]

this gives me hope 0:56

[@manuelcr7436]

Just 5 minutes in, but my take is that most people are used to having a ton of resources in their PCs. That much CPU and memory are like training wheels on a bike. Most newer programmers keep those on for life. Back in college, I was doing a project on a PIC16F690. I chose that one for the reasonable price and the massive memory (256bytes 😂).

[@GerinoMorn]

Finally, I'm biased, but I find modern .NET/C# to be a decent fit for majority of my professional and personal needs. I started around .NET1.1-2.0, and sure, a lot, A LOT of criticism it received was well earned. But now setting a REST API is few lines of code, with full async support for requests, non-request scoped background tasks and everything else. And you can compile it with AOT settings, you can trim the imports etc. if you want to get more performance or less memory usage without even touching your code...

[@_mosesb]

6:38 Javascript consumes a bunch of memory and base chrome gets all flak.